The Right Way?

[Nell]

Dear Lord, give me/us a heart and a willingness this day to look back on all our well-intended efforts which did not turn out as we desired and acknowledge before you that we fell short in our way. Forgive us and help us to release these things. Give us the courage to once again say, ‘I am in your hands, do what is needed in my life to purify me and prepare me to participate in the building of your Body as a servant of others and your kingdom. Thank you for the rich supply of your Son to help me this day to set my will properly and do what is needed to walk with you in increasing holiness. In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, the one who is all and in all

The right way? Really? Isn't that what got us in trouble in the first place? Witness Lee told us his way was the right way. He eventually even had a "new way". He even told us essentially that it was his way or the highway.

This topic is based on the book of Exodus. God told those who wandered in the desert, on the way to the promised land, the right way to worship him. Matt Anderson has written on this topic and I'm hoping to highlight the mistakes and transgressions we committed when Witness Lee inserted himself into our thinking about "the right way".

You may be thinking that this prayer doesn’t apply to you. If your practice in the past was ever to “consecrate yourself” to Christ and the church, this prayer applies to you. When I was saved at a very young age, I asked the Lord Jesus to come into my heart. When I “touched” the Local Church of Witness Lee, in effect, I took back my heart and gave it to Witness Lee and his church.

This topic and this prayer are intended to shine light on our well-intended efforts during our time following the “ministry” of Witness Lee, and reveal scripture that God shows us is his way. Don't take my word for it. I will do my best to make my case, starting with Galatians 3 quoted below.

Some of us were born and raised there. Some of us joined as young adults, some as older, more mature adults. Regardless of how we arrived, we were all deceived during our time there.

If the “ministry” of Witness Lee was everything he/they claim it to be, why were we so miserable there? Why did we leave? Why is it so hard to leave? Why is my family broken? What’s wrong with me?

Perhaps, these verses in Galatians 3 might shed some light:
Gal. 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, did you received the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Can you think of any evidence that Lee's "ministry" is fleshly?

Who has bewitched us? That’s harsh. But I admit it. I was bewitched, deceived. I was having a good time and wasn’t paying attention. The meetings were great back then. Lee had the hottest doctrine in town. Soon, whoa! I began to have thoughts like “…he doesn’t really mean that the way it sounds…”. Well. He did mean it. What have I done?

By praying for forgiveness and for help in “releasing these things,” we are able to give ourselves totally to our Lord Jesus Christ. Rather than finding a better church, wouldn’t it be better to “fix” what got us off in the first place? Wouldn’t it be better to first give ourselves totally to our Lord Jesus Christ and let him walk with us and lead our path? Wouldn’t it be better to first align ourselves with truth, as described in the scripture? The Lord Jesus Christ is able to lead us to fellowship with believers in his timing, his way and his place.

(Next, “I consecrate myself to Christ and the church”.)

[Bible-believer]

Originally Posted by Nell

[I]


Some of us were born and raised there. Some of us joined as young adults, some as older, more mature adults. Regardless of how we arrived, we were all deceived during our time there.

If the “ministry” of Witness Lee was everything he/they claim it to be, why were we so miserable there? Why did we leave? Why is it so hard to leave? Why is my family broken? What’s wrong with me?

I attended training in Anaheim, where I met brothers and sisters from worldwide. That's was exciting. At that training, I started to know about LR, the teachings of Lee, testimonies regarding Lee's ministry, and turmoils.
Due to my profession, one elder asked me to take care of saints with physical or psychological issues. Because of that, I sensed a bit there was something wrong. Yet, I didn't fully know. After the training, saints came to me for treatment. The more they came to me, the clear I was sure there were problems.
I stay because my family and friends are there. I thank God for keeping me in His way and words, but not Lee's. For all these years, I have been guided and kept by the Holy Spirit and the Word. To them, I am not good material for building the church. However, I know I am a follower of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Proverbs 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.
Proverbs 3:5-6 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. 6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

[Bible-believer]

Originally Posted by Nell

[I] When I “touched” the Local Church of Witness Lee, in effect, I took back my heart and gave it to Witness Lee and his church.)

Your point came to my mind this morning, and I reflect. Most of the members of LR did this without noticing it, fell for Lee's "seemed to be correct high-peak truth" teachings. We were thinking Lee's gave us the right way to follow Jesus without realizing Lee cleverly jamming his teachings into the teachings of God.
Thank you for pointing this out. My heart belongs to the Lord Jesus Christ only.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Bible-believer

Your point came to my mind this morning, and I reflect. Most of the members of LR did this without noticing it, fell for Lee's "seemed to be correct high-peak truth" teachings. We were thinking Lee's gave us the right way to follow Jesus without realizing Lee cleverly jamming his teachings into the teachings of God.
Thank you for pointing this out. My heart belongs to the Lord Jesus Christ only.

Mine too. Thank you for both of your posts. You make good points. There are two verses which come to mind:

Galatians 3:3 since you began in the Spirit, are you now made perfect by the flesh?

Of course, the answer is “no.” I now believe Lee's "high peaks" were actually a product of his flesh. He desired to "be something" or "someone" such as the "oracle" or the "minister of the age". His desire was to be made perfect, but he fell into a snare. He brought us all along with him.

So many times, after leaving the Local Church of Witness Lee, our first inclination is to find another church…one that doesn’t make us spiritually sick. Before doing that, there is a step we need to take first.

John 16:13 ESV When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.


Lee believed that he was some kind of elevated authority. He spoke with his own authority, which in fact was fleshly.

Nell

[Nell]

In the prayer, we prayed for forgiveness and help to “release these things.” What things?

Did you ever “consecrate yourself to ‘Christ and the church’.” What exactly does that mean? Years after leaving, I learned that this “consecration” was actually the taking of an oath.

Consecration to “Christ and the church” actually meant I was swearing an oath to Lee and his “ministry”. What does the Bible say about taking oaths?

James 5:12 “But above all things, my brethren, swear not…but let your yes be your yes; and your no, no; lest you fall into condemnation”.

Do you ever feel that you are being condemned? Are you afraid to "leave" the Local Church?

Matthew 5:34-37, “I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God’s throne; nor by the earth, for it is His footstool: nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black. But let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ For whatever is more than these is from the evil one” .

In spiritual matters we are powerless. All the power and authority belongs to Him. Swearing an oath implies that we have the ability, the power, to keep it. We don't.

If believers consecrate themselves to "Christ and the church", we swear an oath. This "consecration oath" is intended to swear allegence to Witness Lee, and Witness Lee’s church. We now know Lee and his church are fleshly, steeped in sin and failure to represent God in truth. This consecration oath is taking God’s name in vain and involving Him in something sinful. For such reasons we are commanded “do not swear at all”. Or, do not "consecrate" at all. Why do we need to do that?

We also realize how hard it is to leave...to walk away is not easy. Can this be one of the results of swearing a consecration oath?

This consecration oath implies that all the past sinful behavior of Lee has been “endorsed” by God. We know the truth; sin is of the evil one who was defeated completely on the cross of Christ.

When I realized this terrible sin, after I left, I renounced all such consecrations, oaths and commitments I made unknowingly to anyone but Jehovah God. I prayed for light on how to pray in order to be clean before God and totally belong to the one who died on the cross to save me.

(Next, a devastatingly destructive teaching: If you take care of the church, God will take care of your children.)

Nell

[Nell]

Witness Lee says: “If you take care of the church, God will take care of your children.”

God says: Deuteronomy 6:4-7 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.[a] 5 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. 6 These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts. 7 Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up.

Many of Witness Lee’s teachings which he passed on to others, are based in Lee’s fleshly desire to, perhaps, “become God”. How can we know this?

Matt. 7:15-20 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit; neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

For years we have looked at the fruit of this Lee teaching on this forum. We have many, many testimonies of the children of the Local Church—the "Church Kids", the fruit of Lee’s teachings. Witness Lee taught parents to abandon their children. The Church Kids were abandoned-in-place by their parents, and essentially, raised themselves. These testimonies are the fruit of Witness Lee and his “ministry of the flesh”.

The likely fruit of a consecration-oath to Witness Lee’s church and teachings resulted in this teaching to abandon your children to God’s care. In truth, God gave children to YOU. God charged YOU with commandments on taking care of the children he gave you. "These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts. 7Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up."

Lee taught to abandon your children to babysitting groups. Children are inconvenient to the “church life” of Witness Lee. A distraction. We heard this many times.

What did Jesus say? Matt. 19:13Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put his hands on them, and pray: and the disciples (Witness Lee) rebuked them. 14But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

I’ve shared a testimony before about a husband who stood up in the meeting and declared that his wife and children were a “distraction” to his “going on with the Lord”. In fact, his wife was not in that meeting. She was in the hospital having just delivered his 4th child. I lost all respect for this brother that day.

Last Sunday (9/19) I visited “poor, degraded, Christianity”. Here are a few notes from what was shared:

“There is a great need to prepare children for an uncertain world. The turmoil we see today should make us realize the need to prepare the next generation. Parents need a depth of knowledge and understanding and a real walk with the Lord to stay faithful to the path that leads to life. They need to be careful not to let their children go into the world ungrounded…without the foundation they would need to deal with the world around them.”

“The generation to come out of the 20’s 30’s and 40’s is often called the “greatest generation”. This was not an accident. God prepared this generation through parents and churches who sacrificed for these children and gave them the depth of faith they would need to become the spirit and soul of this country during what would become our most difficult hours.”

“These children became—what they became—as a result of the commitment of their parents in the 1920’s. Churches decided that the most important thing for them was to invest deeply in the spiritual growth of their children.”

“If this nation is going to turn around, how is it going to happen? God will have to raise up a great generation.”

It was a remarkable speaking, and this was just the beginning. It wasn't a "sermon". It was a pastor pouring his heart out to his flock, sharing his desparate burden for the children in their care. At least this one church has found The Right Way to begin to care for the children God has given them.

Psalm 127: 3-5 Lo, children are an heritage of the Lord: and the fruit of the womb is his reward. 4 As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man; so are children of the youth. 5 Happy is the man that hath his quiver full of them: they shall not be ashamed, but they shall speak with the enemies in the gate.

Who today is speaking with the enemies in the gate?

Nell

[Nell]

Before continuing on The Right Way, and The Right Church, we need to take out the garbage.

Spiritual Warfare
In the spiritual realm, oaths are binding. Even the unscriptural ones, or, especially the unscriptural ones. We remain spiritually bound by these well-intentioned consecration-oaths. By our unwitting consecration-oath, we remain committed, or spiritually bound, to “the ministry” of Witness Lee.

We may be afraid to leave. Out of fear, we may display a façade of commitment—long past the time when we have seen and understood Lee’s flawed “ministry”. The teachings of Witness Lee may break down in our understanding, long before our break with the Local Church community. As a result, we may either remain “in the closet” regarding our true feelings, or, we may “leave” and continue to “look back” in fear because of what we were taught about leaving.

Lee said: “If you leave ‘the Church’ your walk with the Lord will be over.”
The Bible says: Hebrews 13:5b-6 …for he hath said, I will never leave you, nor forsake you. 6 So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.

This Lee teaching is a curse. “If you leave ‘the Church’ your walk with the Lord will be over” is a curse. God Himself promised He would never leave or forsake us. But Lee’s curse makes God’s promise contingent on Lee himself and his “church”. This is demonic and evil.

There is a healthy fear of God. But a fear of leaving Witness Lee and the Local Church is not healthy. Search the Bible for the commandment “fear not”. I got 170 hits—Old and New Testaments. This may be the most frequent commandment in the entire Bible. Fear not. Why would Witness Lee teach such a diabolical lie, promoting the fear that God would leave...forsake his children? Why?

If you’re getting all creeped out by this talk about the realities of the spiritual realm, it’s commonly called Spiritual Warfare. Where did that come from? We see verses confirming the realities of the spiritual realm like Ephesians 3:11-12. It’s real. It’s real that we are in a spiritual war.

Eph. 3:11 Put on the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

There are two spirits: the Holy Spirit and...the other one.

You may be starting to think that Witness Lee (and the Local Church) is our enemy. According to Ephesians 3:12 this is not true. Witness Lee was beguiled by that same enemy that was there in the garden, and Lee passed this deception on and we were deceived, too.

To review, so far in Lee's "ministry" we’ve seen:
• Teaching an unholy, binding, consecration-oath to “Christ and the church”;
• A false teaching to abandon your responsibility to raise your own children;
• A curse which teaches an unscriptural fear of losing our walk with the Lord.

I know. What about the “good” you may have experienced in the Local Church of Witness Lee? There was some “good”. Maybe a lot of "good". I experienced some good. However, whatever good there may be, or may have been, is not because of Witness Lee or his "ministry". Whatever “good”, in any regard, is because of God’s mercy toward His children. God’s blessing. Only God is good.

The "creeps" and the "willies"
We need to get over being creeped-out, and acknowledge the reality of “spiritual warfare”. The enemy’s way to hide himself is to give us the “creeps” or the “willies”—make us skeptical of his existence. The Western world views these spiritual realities as laughable conspiracy theories. As Christians, we were influenced by this laughter. Can you really look around the world today and NOT see the work of the Deceiver?

Satan is the father of lies. He is the serpent who is more subtle than any beast of the field. We need to wake up! Believe the Bible! Be aware of the spiritual wickedness in high places, and learn how to fight. Take out the garbage. We are commanded to put on the armor of God for protection from the liar. Remember, this one is out to sift you like wheat. This is IN THE BIBLE!!!

Nell

[Nell]

“The Lord’s Recovery?”
For as long as this term has been in common use to describe the Local Church of Witness Lee, it has really bugged me. I could never say those words in that context. I didn’t know why, I just didn’t like it, and I couldn’t call “it” The Lord’s Recovery. To me, it's not just a name for convenience.

I think now the Lord has given me the words for what bugs me about it—two things:

1. “The Lord’s Recovery” implies that the Church of Witness Lee is under the headship of the Lord Jesus Christ. Is it? I see no indication that it is. Therefore,
2. The moniker “The Lord’s Recovery” is akin to taking the Lord’s name in vain.

I know. Harsh. With Witness Lee monikers like “oracle of God” and “Minister of the Age”, you have to ask “who’s in charge of this outfit?” If the headship of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, whose name is above all names, if his headship was preeminent there, things would be different. If some spiritual truth had actually been “recovered” that would be different, too.

What is Witness Lee’s Church? A federation of assemblies, franchised under the Living Stream Ministry publishing house under the close direction of a collection of Co-workers and “Blended” men. And THIS is called “The Lord’s Recovery.” No way.

That being said, I’m adding this to my list, all of which fall under the initial consecration-oath:
1. Teaching an unholy, binding, consecration-oath to “Christ and the church”;
2. A false teaching to abandon your responsibility to raise your own children;
3. A curse which teaches an unscriptural fear of losing our walk with the Lord.
4. “The Lord’s Recovery” implies falsely that the Church of Witness Lee is under the Lord’s headship.
5. “The Lord’s Recovery” is akin to, if not in fact, taking the Lord’s name in vain.

I don’t need to tell you that you can call it what you want. This is what I think, and at least now I know why I don’t like the moniker: it's false.

Nell

[Nell]

The Right Church?

After leaving, or maybe before leaving “the Church”, people begin to search for the Right Church to replace what we knew. How do you replace what is touted as “THE church”?

Consider this: maybe it’s not about finding the “Right Church”, but about worshipping the Father. Wow! There’s a new thought!

From our experiences in the Local Church, we understand that even with our best intentions, we will still get it wrong. We need to find the right place AND the right way, not to “do church”, but to “worship the Father.”

John 4:21-24 Jesus said to her, “Believe me, woman, that an hour is coming when neither in the Local Church of Witness Lee nor the Living Stream Ministry will you worship the Father. 22 You worship what you do not know. We worship what we know, because salvation is from the Jews. 23 But an hour is coming—and now is here—when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for indeed the Father seeks such people to be his worshipers. 24 God is spirit, and the ones who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”
John 4:21–24 (NELL)

John 4:21-24 gives us the right place and the right way to worship the Father: in spirit (place) and truth (the way). Wait! What about the church? Why didn’t Jesus tell the woman at the well about the church?

From Matt A. “…to operate in truth, it is not according to our own understanding or interpretation of the Word of God, but according to the spoken Word of God (i.e. the voice of the Lord) which is to be heard, tested and applied apart from deception (*Romans 12:2; **1 Thessalonians 5:21). This can only be done through a submitted walk with the Lord in proper and appropriate fear of the Lord. We cannot do this properly apart from Christ. We are only able to do this properly IN HIM. We only have to come to our Lord Jesus Christ and submit ourselves into His hands and follow Him one step at a time. He will organize our circumstances. He will work on our hearts. He has the responsibility to purify us and build us up for the work God has in mind for our lives.”

Lets take a closer look at this quote:
1. “to operate in truth, it is not according to our own understanding - √
2. or interpretation of the Word of God, - √
3. but according to the spoken Word of God (i.e. the voice of the Lord) which is to be heard,

“The spoken Word of God…the voice of the Lord…which is to be heard…”. Hummm. (My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. John 10:27 OK. √) 

4. tested and
5. applied apart from deception (*Romans 12:2; **1 Thessalonians 5:21).

So we hear his voice, test what we heard (conflict with the written word?), applied apart from deception…this sounds hard.

6. This can only be done through a submitted walk with the Lord in proper and appropriate fear of the Lord.
A submitted walk with the Lord…this sounds harder…how do you do that?

But…
• We cannot do this properly apart from Christ.
• We are only able to do this properly IN HIM.
So what do I have to do?
• We only have to come to our Lord Jesus Christ and
• submit ourselves into His hands and
• follow Him
• one step at a time.
You mean I don't have to find the Right Church?
• He will organize our circumstances.
• He will work on our hearts.
• He has the responsibility to purify us and build us up for the work God has in mind for our lives.”
OK. THIS IS the church. √

25 … just as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for her; 26 in order that he might sanctify her by cleansing her with the washing of water by the word; 27 in order that he might present to himself the church glorious, not having a spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she may be holy and blameless. Ephesians 5:25b–27 (LEB)

Nell

*Romans 12:2 Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect. ESV

**1 Thessalonians. 5:21 but test everything; hold fast what is good.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Nell

Galatians 3:3 since you began in the Spirit, are you now made perfect by the flesh?

Of course, the answer is “no.” I now believe Lee's "high peaks" were actually a product of his flesh. He desired to "be something" or "someone" such as the "oracle" or the "minister of the age". His desire was to be made perfect, but he fell into a snare. He brought us all along with him.

Lee believed that he was some kind of elevated authority. He spoke with his own authority, which in fact was fleshly.

Nell

I agree with your points here, and will take it a step further.

Based on the timing of WL's so-called "high peaks" and his operating procedure developed over time, I concluded long ago that WL used this radical course of teachings on deification as disinformationary, a diversionary tactic designed to redirect the attention of the rank-and-file membership away from the scandals in Anaheim resulting from Philip Lee's degenerate behaviors.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I agree with your points here, and will take it a step further.

Based on the timing of WL's so-called "high peaks" and his operating procedure developed over time, I concluded long ago that WL used this radical course of teachings on deification as disinformationary, a diversionary tactic designed to redirect the attention of the rank-and-file membership away from the scandals in Anaheim resulting from Philip Lee's degenerate behaviors.

Following a man, or human, is a need of the flesh ... even while teaching deification, when it's actually apotheosis of Lee ... in and of the flesh.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I agree with your points here, and will take it a step further.

Based on the timing of WL's so-called "high peaks" and his operating procedure developed over time, I concluded long ago that WL used this radical course of teachings on deification as disinformationary, a diversionary tactic designed to redirect the attention of the rank-and-file membership away from the scandals in Anaheim resulting from Philip Lee's degenerate behaviors.

Ohio,

I agree with you. Witness Lee aligned himself with the "sons of disobedience" to protect his "empire."

Lee's behavior was diabolical in the true sense of the word... demonic... devilish. Lee always seemed to have a new shiny object to detract from the deeds of darkness he practiced. Not the least of which was the lengths he went to, to protect his sons. He sacrificed the man who was closest to him and had been faithful in the service of his "ministry" for many years--John Ingalls. John was also faithful to speak truth to Witness Lee.

As has been seen in the situation in Oklahoma City, if Lee had dealt with the sinful behavior of his son, Philip, when it happened, there would have been a clear message that this behavior would not be tolerated. Instead, the sinful behavior was condoned by association and continues to this day.

This brings to the surface another demonic teaching: "Don't say anything negative." Even if it's the truth. "Don't ask questions." "Questions are of the devil." "Lee is right, even if he's wrong."

Lee: Covered the sexual immorality of his son.
The Bible teaches: Ephesians 5:3 But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints.
4 Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving.
5 For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.

The Bible teaches: 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.
Lee was a master of empty words. You exposed WL's empty words, specifically the "radical course of teachings on deification as disinformationary, a diversionary tactic designed to redirect the attention of the rank-and-file membership...".

Witness Lee says: "Don't say anything negative."
The Bible says: 11 Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.

Nell

[Nell]

Previously posted in the Spiritual Abuse Titles forum, an excerpt from The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse.

Off to See the Wizard

"Dorothy, the Scarecrow, the Tin Man and the Cowardly Lion go to the Wizard because they believe he has the power to give them what they need. Dorothy needs to go home; the Scarecrow needs a brain; the Tin Man needs a heart; and the Lion needs courage. The Wizard sends them out on a quest to get the broomstick of the Wicked Witch of the West. If they bring back the broomstick, he will give them what they need.

They accomplish their mission by melting the witch and getting the broomstick, then return to the Wizard's place to ask him to deliver on his promise. But, in fact, he is not expecting their return, and is quite put out at being held accountable to keep his promise.

Our heroes enter the huge chamber where the Wizard of Oz conducts his business. They are met face to face by the Wizard himself, a big scary head--not a real person, just a serious face, surrounded by billowing smoke and fire, making a lot of noise. With a thunderous roar, the Wizard demands to know how these four dare to challenge him.

...It is at this moment that Dorothy's dog runs over to a small room and pulls back a curtain, and what is revealed to us is a simple, flesh-and-blood man who has long been hiding behind a mask of power. He operates behind a curtain pulling levers, making smoke, fire and noise. The result looks impressive but is only a facade. Even when exposed, he roars, "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!"

The "Wizard" is in fact a power abuser. He controls a whole city with a facade that postures power and punishes people for noticing. In a kingdom where the problem was that the Wizard couldn't deliver, Dorothy and her crew became the problem for noticing there was a problem.

It is sad to think how often religious power-brokers control their spiritual kingdoms with power facades. They rain Bible verses on people about authority, submission, judgment, prosperity or the end times. They penalize people for noticing that "the man behind the curtain" is just human, with no authenticity or authority at all.

As a maddening last lesson from the story, after all is said and done, the Wizard tells them, "You already have what you needed all along." They had risked life and limb for what they already had.

In too many Christian families and churches, Christians are told to jump through spiritual-performance hoops to earn God's approval--something they already have for free because of Jesus' death on the cross."

The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse By: David Johnson, Jeff VanVonderen , pp. 117-118

I watched the movie, "The Wizard of Oz", again after I read The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse. In the movie, after Toto pulled back the curtain, Dorothy confronted the man behind the curtain saying "You're a terrible man!"

He replied to Dorothy "I'm a pretty good man. I'm just a terrible Wizard."

We have discussed this passage from The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse a couple of times on this forum. Some of us are still following a "wizard" who cannot deliver on his promises. We already have everything we need. We have a loving Father who gave his only Son to die on the cross for our sins. This is the Father who has already, or will soon, deliver on every promise in his book.

Father, we worship you and you alone. Thank you. Shine your light on the emptiness of what we were led to believe that was against the truth in your word. By your great mercy, bring us to a full and complete repentance and help us to renounce every lie we have been led to believe.

Nell

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Nell

Ohio, I agree with you. Witness Lee aligned himself with the "sons of disobedience" to protect his "empire."

Lee's behavior was diabolical in the true sense of the word... demonic... devilish. Lee always seemed to have a new shiny object to detract from the deeds of darkness he practiced. Not the least of which was the lengths he went to, to protect his sons. He sacrificed the man who was closest to him and had been faithful in the service of his "ministry" for many years--John Ingalls. John was also faithful to speak truth to Witness Lee.

As has been seen in the situation in Oklahoma City, if Lee had dealt with the sinful behavior of his son, Philip, when it happened, there would have been a clear message that this behavior would not be tolerated. Instead, the sinful behavior was condoned by association and continues to this day.

I know certain LSMers here have on occasion labeled me a "broken record," but the horrible unrighteousness surrounding John Ingalls et. al. in order to protect Philip Lee and the pristine image of WL himself exposed to me, once for all, the fraudulent nature of the so-called Recovery.

Once such behavior is endorsed and licensed on high, the doors were opened wide for all manner of corruption. One might say that the handling of WN in Shanghai in 1948 "opened the door wide," but we did not have incontrovertible and irrefutable evidence from multiple witnesses like we did in Anaheim in 1989.

On the same subject, to a lesser degree, I also witnessed many "bad behaviors" get learned in Cleveland from TC, and then got duplicated in the surrounding LC's I was a part of. I'm NOT saying that I am in any way perfect, or that leaders must be either, but bad behaviors must be owned and not codified for future justification. We have all seen how that style of leadership only deteriorates with each successive generation.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I know certain LSMers here have on occasion labeled me a "broken record," but the horrible unrighteousness surrounding John Ingalls et. al. in order to protect Philip Lee and the pristine image of WL himself exposed to me, once for all, the fraudulent nature of the so-called Recovery.

Once such behavior is endorsed and licensed on high, the doors were opened wide for all manner of corruption. One might say that the handling of WN in Shanghai in 1948 "opened the door wide," but we did not have incontrovertible and irrefutable evidence from multiple witnesses like we did in Anaheim in 1989.

On the same subject, to a lesser degree, I also witnessed many "bad behaviors" get learned in Cleveland from TC, and then got duplicated in the surrounding LC's I was a part of. I'm NOT saying that I am in any way perfect, or that leaders must be either, but bad behaviors must be owned and not codified for future justification. We have all seen how that style of leadership only deteriorates with each successive generation.

Ohio,

Whenever we see the deeds of darkness and the doctrines of demons being practiced, we have to speak up. The more so, as you say, as the deeds of the Local Church leadership deteriorates.

1 Timothy 4 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;


People have been referring to the latter times since these words were written. Others have been dismissing these references with comments like "you've been saying that for hundreds of years." This is true. However, one day, the end times will be manifested. The end times will arrive, if not already here.

So again, whenever we see the deeds of darkness and the doctrines of demons being practiced, we have to speak up.

I was curious about Witness Lee's Life Study messages regarding 1 Timothy 4. (I am always put off on Local Church websites because they track your IP address to enforce their useage policies.) If you want to check out what Lee says, search for it and it's easy to find: "Life Study of Timothy Witness Lee". Drill down to Chapter 7 of 28, Section 2 of 3.

The outstanding thing to me was that Lee seemed to be totally oblivious to his own behavior and departing from the faith. Lee did not own his bad behavior, but pointed his finger at others.

He also repeats the conversation with Nee when Nee told him "some Christians lie".

Nell

PS: Speaking of doctrines of demons, remember this?
Minoru Chen is filled with Witness Lee's spirit?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwSe...YdFvzDm6XfMO0Q
Blended brother Minoru Chen says he is "full of Witness Lee's spirit". This sounds like something cultish and creepy to me. Why do these people say these kind of things and not expect to be called a cult?
03-04-2020, 04:07 PM

This video is no longer available "due to a copyright claim by the Living Stream Ministry."