Is the Processed, Four-in-One God a sound doctrine?

[Bible-believer]

Anyway, I learned that I'd better get rid of Lee's or the Local church's teachings, spend time reading and studying the word of God. It's much more profitable and easier than figuring out if I am on the right track. That's what I am going to do from now on.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Bible-believer

Anyway, I learned that I'd better get rid of Lee's or the Local church's teachings, spend time reading and studying the word of God. It's much more profitable and easier than figuring out if I am on the right track. That's what I am going to do from now on.

Good decision. By reading the Bible, you can be confident you’re on the right track.

Nell

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Bible-believer

Anyway, I learned that I'd better get rid of Lee's or the Local church's teachings, spend time reading and studying the word of God. It's much more profitable and easier than figuring out if I am on the right track. That's what I am going to do from now on.

With deft use of the cute little Quote button I chime in....

Bible-believer... okay... let's read and study the word of God. If I teach anything that you do not believe to be in the Bible then call that out and let's compare scripture with scripture. I'll do the same.

Obviously, 1 Cor 12:12 does not completely define what is meant by the title phrase... but in my view it provides clarity on the principle.... here is what I mean.

12"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ."

Paul uses the physical human body to express the spiritual reality concerning Christ. Our head and body are one by an organic physiology and animated by our human life. Our physical body only functions because of the human life and without it we don't have a functioning body ..... rather there is only a corpse. In Paul's analogy of the human body he did not in this verse use the words "human life" but since he speaks of a functioning body then it is already presumed. A corpse has no ability to function and Paul saw no need to explain here that a human body must have life in order to function. The Corinthians knew that else Paul's analogy would make no sense. From the other verses you quoted about the Spirit I assume you and I are in agreement about this most basic and fundamental teaching of the Bible ----that He came that we might have life and have it abundantly (John 10:10) and Christ is our life (Col 3:4) and for us to live is Christ (Phil 1:21)

If this basic truth is not understood then most everything in the New Testament would be closed to us because everything that pertains to the Christian life, the growth in the divine life, fruit bearing, the Body of Christ, and God's purpose issue from the seed of divine life that then grows in life (Matt 13:23). That began with our regeneration.

Bible-believer, assuming we are in agreement about the the testimony of the Scripture concerning the life of Christ in us (if not we can backup before going forward) then we can examine how Paul applies the analogy of the human body to Christ. Just as a human body has a head and a body and lives and functions as an organic whole according to the life within so also the Christ has a Head and a Body, functions according to the life of Christ, grows with the growth of God.

According to Eph 4:16 only that which issues out of the Head may be considered the Body of Christ.

I'll pause to hear your point of view on this so far. Based on your previous response I am certain that we are in agreement on this part. But again, I do not want to presume.

Thanks,
Drake

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Drake

12"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ."

Paul uses the physical human body to express the spiritual reality concerning Christ. Our head and body are one by an organic physiology and animated by our human life. Our physical body only functions because of the human life and without it we don't have a functioning body ..... rather there is only a corpse. In Paul's analogy of the human body he did not in this verse use the words "human life" but since he speaks of a functioning body then it is already presumed. A corpse has no ability to function and Paul saw no need to explain here that a human body must have life in order to function.

Paul's thought here has little to do with dead corpses and those with organic physiology and animated by our human life. You are missing the forest from the trees. You miss the message by doing this deep dive into some obscure esoteric message that needed to be "recovered" by the your favorite ministry in Anaheim.

Paul's message is simple. The body of Christ has tremendous diversity. Whether the numerous gifts of the Spirit, the diverse ministries in the body of Christ orchestrated by the Lord, or the many services and operations arranged by God Himself, all are needed and absolutely necessary. Paul emphatically reminded the Corinthians that even the less comely "problem cases" fit this category too. Then Paul points them to God's love, without which everything else is vain.

Which reminds me of why I left the Recovery in 2005. The Blendeds had decided to excommunicate us for endless petty differences. The same kinds of meany matters that plagued Corinth. Did LSM learn from Corinth or Paul's letter to the church there? Absolutely not! We were 99.94% identical to other LC's, but that was not good enough for the Blendeds. Instead they send their agents from DCP to file lawsuits and divide the LC's in the Midwest over men. Each member here was forced to decide, "am I of W. Lee, or am I of T. Chu," just like the Corinthians.

To my dear brother Drake, please read Paul's letter to Corinth. Listen to what he is writing. Please purge out all the leaven of Lee's teachings which conflict with Paul's truth. Stop micro-reading into verses and get the big picture. Read the context. Get the big picture: the Love of God!

Sincerely in Christ,

Your brother Ohio

[Ohio]

How I wish LSM would read this great message from W. Nee:

The Church of God includes a vast number of believers, living at different times, and scattered in different places throughout the earth. How has it come about that all have been united into one universal Church? With such differences in age, social position, education, background, outlook, and temperament, how could all these people become one church? What is the secret of the oneness of the saints? The Spirit who dwells in the heart of every believer is one Spirit; therefore, He makes all those in whom He dwells to be one, even as He Himself is one.

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Drake

With deft use of the cute little Quote button I chime in....

Bible-believer... okay... let's read and study the word of God. If I teach anything that you do not believe to be in the Bible then call that out and let's compare scripture with scripture. I'll do the same.

Obviously, 1 Cor 12:12 does not completely define what is meant by the title phrase... but in my view it provides clarity on the principle.... here is what I mean.

12"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ."

Paul uses the physical human body to express the spiritual reality concerning Christ. Our head and body are one by an organic physiology and animated by our human life. Our physical body only functions because of the human life and without it we don't have a functioning body ..... rather there is only a corpse. In Paul's analogy of the human body he did not in this verse use the words "human life" but since he speaks of a functioning body then it is already presumed. A corpse has no ability to function and Paul saw no need to explain here that a human body must have life in order to function. The Corinthians knew that else Paul's analogy would make no sense. From the other verses you quoted about the Spirit I assume you and I are in agreement about this most basic and fundamental teaching of the Bible ----that He came that we might have life and have it abundantly (John 10:10) and Christ is our life (Col 3:4) and for us to live is Christ (Phil 1:21)

If this basic truth is not understood then most everything in the New Testament would be closed to us because everything that pertains to the Christian life, the growth in the divine life, fruit bearing, the Body of Christ, and God's purpose issue from the seed of divine life that then grows in life (Matt 13:23). That began with our regeneration.

Bible-believer, assuming we are in agreement about the the testimony of the Scripture concerning the life of Christ in us (if not we can backup before going forward) then we can examine how Paul applies the analogy of the human body to Christ. Just as a human body has a head and a body and lives and functions as an organic whole according to the life within so also the Christ has a Head and a Body, functions according to the life of Christ, grows with the growth of God.

According to Eph 4:16 only that which issues out of the Head may be considered the Body of Christ.

I'll pause to hear your point of view on this so far. Based on your previous response I am certain that we are in agreement on this part. But again, I do not want to presume.

Thanks,
Drake

Once again, you are making statements separate from Scripture and then overlaying them on top of a portion of Scripture that is not about that statement.

You speak of the the head and body living and functioning "as an organic whole according to the life within". 1 Corinthians 12 never mentions a life within, or even Christ as the head. The word "head" appears only once and it is not in reference to Christ, but just in reference to being just another part of the example body (although Christ IS the head as taught elsewhere, it is just not the point in this portion). Paul does not mention the shared life creating an "organic whole" or anyone functioning "according to the life within".

I could easily say "Paul did not need to mention that a human body lives and functions as an organic whole.......but it is obvious that any infection in the body could spread to the head too, so we need to make sure we as the body are healthy so we don't spread gangrene to Christ the head and cause Christ to die with the body. Paul didn't say that, or allude to it, or mention it at all, but it was obvious and so Paul didn't even need to say it.....just accept what I say!"

But Paul isn't talking about any of that. Just like he's not talking about what you are stating.

Paul is speaking of distinctions and varieties of members and gifts.

Take an analogy outside of it's biblical bounds and you get deviated teachings. Even if it sounds good.

Paul is saying just as a human body has many parts and is still one body, so Christ is the same way - His body has many parts with much variety and distinction one from the other, and yet is still one body.

Find another verse to prop up the four-in-one God teaching.

Trapped

[Bible-believer]

Originally Posted by Drake

With deft use of the cute little Quote button I chime in....

Bible-believer... okay... let's read and study the word of God. If I teach anything that you do not believe to be in the Bible then call that out and let's compare scripture with scripture. I'll do the same.

Obviously, 1 Cor 12:12 does not completely define what is meant by the title phrase... but in my view it provides clarity on the principle.... here is what I mean.

12"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ."

Paul uses the physical human body to express the spiritual reality concerning Christ. Our head and body are one by an organic physiology and animated by our human life. Our physical body only functions because of the human life and without it we don't have a functioning body ..... rather there is only a corpse. In Paul's analogy of the human body he did not in this verse use the words "human life" but since he speaks of a functioning body then it is already presumed. A corpse has no ability to function and Paul saw no need to explain here that a human body must have life in order to function. The Corinthians knew that else Paul's analogy would make no sense. From the other verses you quoted about the Spirit I assume you and I are in agreement about this most basic and fundamental teaching of the Bible ----that He came that we might have life and have it abundantly (John 10:10) and Christ is our life (Col 3:4) and for us to live is Christ (Phil 1:21)

If this basic truth is not understood then most everything in the New Testament would be closed to us because everything that pertains to the Christian life, the growth in the divine life, fruit bearing, the Body of Christ, and God's purpose issue from the seed of divine life that then grows in life (Matt 13:23). That began with our regeneration.

Bible-believer, assuming we are in agreement about the the testimony of the Scripture concerning the life of Christ in us (if not we can backup before going forward) then we can examine how Paul applies the analogy of the human body to Christ. Just as a human body has a head and a body and lives and functions as an organic whole according to the life within so also the Christ has a Head and a Body, functions according to the life of Christ, grows with the growth of God.

According to Eph 4:16 only that which issues out of the Head may be considered the Body of Christ.

I'll pause to hear your point of view on this so far. Based on your previous response I am certain that we are in agreement on this part. But again, I do not want to presume.

Thanks,
Drake

Hi, Drake,
1. Sorry, I don't see your argument relate to the topic of this post.
2. The context of 1Cor.12 is on the gifts of the Spirit. Chapters 12–14, as a unit, deal with the gifts of the Body of Christ. It starts with 12:1, “Now concerning spiritual gifts,” and ends with 14:40, “Let all things be done decently and in order.”
Every member functions according to his/her gifts, so "whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love." That is individual members growing so that the Body will grow into “maturity” (in the sense of Christ-likeness).

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Bible-believer

Hi, Drake,
1. Sorry, I don't see your argument relate to the topic of this post.
2. The context of 1Cor.12 is on the gifts of the Spirit. Chapters 12–14, as a unit, deal with the gifts of the Body of Christ. It starts with 12:1, “Now concerning spiritual gifts,” and ends with 14:40, “Let all things be done decently and in order.”
Every member functions according to his/her gifts, so "whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love." That is individual members growing so that the Body will grow into “maturity” (in the sense of Christ-likeness).

Hi Bible-believer,

You don't see how my argument relates to the topic of the post because of one very important reason........ I haven't done a very good job of explaining it! But be patient and maybe I'll get there.

I Corinthians 12:12 in and of itself does not explain the phrase "the Processed, Four-in-One God". It does however by way of analogy show how Christ has a Head and a Body just like our head and body. The phrase "...so also is..." confirms that. v12 does not use the words "life" but it is understood ...for the body without life is a corpse. Just as John 15 speaks about the Vine and branches, the word "life" is not mentioned but it is understood that the branches are organically one with the vine... it is a life union. So with the Christ - the Head and the Body.

You mentioned chapters 12-14 and said "That is individual members growing so that the Body will grow into “maturity” (in the sense of Christ-likeness)"


Okay, ... but how?

I Corinthians 12: 4-11

"But there are distinctions of gifts, but the same Spirit; And there a distinctions of ministries, yet the same Lord; and there are distinctions of operations, but the same God, who operates all things in all. But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for what is profitable. For to one through the Spirit a word of wisdom is given, and to another a word of knowledge, according to the same Spirit; to a different one faith in the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing in the one Spirit, and to another operations of works of power, and to another prophecy, and to another discerning of spirits; to a different one various kinds of tongues, and to another interpretation of tongues. But the one and the same Spirit operates all these things, distributing to each one respectively even as He purposes."

The Body grows to maturity by the Spirit, carries out its ministries by the Lord, and it is God who operates all things in all. The Body of Christ functions through and according to the same Spirit in the one Spirit. It is the one and same Spirit that operates all these things by that operation becomes the Spirit is manifested.

By these verses it is clearly stated that the Spirit, the Lord, and God operate in His many believers in an organic union to bring the many members of the Body of Christ into their God-given functions (gifts). The "Christ-likeness" you mention is really a manifestation of the Spirit and not just an imitation. It's not just something outward but something that issues out from God's operation within.

Do you concur with that explanation, Bible-believer?

Thanks,
Drake

[Nell]

Drake,

Your argument is off topic. No further explanation necessary. Please start another thread if you want to continue. We will move your “off” posts from this thread. Your alternative is to review the OP and post accordingly.

BTW, please tone down your “teachie” approach to addressing others. This is a discussion forum, not a lecture hall.

Nell

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Nell

Drake,

Your argument is off topic. No further explanation necessary. Please start another thread if you want to continue. We will move your “off” posts from this thread. Your alternative is to review the OP and post accordingly.

BTW, please tone down your “teachie” approach to addressing others. This is a discussion forum, not a lecture hall.

Nell

Nell,

This is the answer to the question in the base note. The scriptures in I Cor 12 substantiate the phrase Bible-believer asked about and provide an explanation from scripture as he sought..... and these are only a few of the scriptures that, given time, we will examine.... if the forum provides the liberty to do so.

Thanks
Drake

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Drake

Nell,

This is the answer to the question in the base note. The scriptures in I Cor 12 substantiate the phrase Bible-believer asked about and provide an explanation from scripture as he sought..... and these are only a few of the scriptures that, given time, we will examine.... if the forum provides the liberty to do so.

Thanks
Drake

Bible-believer? Does this cryptic response make any sense to you?

Please hold your posts until Bible-believer responds.


Nell

[Bible-believer]

Originally Posted by Drake

Hi Bible-believer,

You don't see how my argument relates to the topic of the post because of one very important reason........ I haven't done a very good job of explaining it! But be patient and maybe I'll get there.

I Corinthians 12:12 in and of itself does not explain the phrase "the Processed, Four-in-One God". It does however by way of analogy show how Christ has a Head and a Body just like our head and body. The phrase "...so also is..." confirms that. v12 does not use the words "life" but it is understood ...for the body without life is a corpse. Just as John 15 speaks about the Vine and branches, the word "life" is not mentioned but it is understood that the branches are organically one with the vine... it is a life union. So with the Christ - the Head and the Body.

You mentioned chapters 12-14 and said "That is individual members growing so that the Body will grow into “maturity” (in the sense of Christ-likeness)"


Okay, ... but how?

I Corinthians 12: 4-11

"But there are distinctions of gifts, but the same Spirit; And there a distinctions of ministries, yet the same Lord; and there are distinctions of operations, but the same God, who operates all things in all. But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for what is profitable. For to one through the Spirit a word of wisdom is given, and to another a word of knowledge, according to the same Spirit; to a different one faith in the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing in the one Spirit, and to another operations of works of power, and to another prophecy, and to another discerning of spirits; to a different one various kinds of tongues, and to another interpretation of tongues. But the one and the same Spirit operates all these things, distributing to each one respectively even as He purposes."

The Body grows to maturity by the Spirit, carries out its ministries by the Lord, and it is God who operates all things in all. The Body of Christ functions through and according to the same Spirit in the one Spirit. It is the one and same Spirit that operates all these things by that operation becomes the Spirit is manifested.

By these verses it is clearly stated that the Spirit, the Lord, and God operate in His many believers in an organic union to bring the many members of the Body of Christ into their God-given functions (gifts). The "Christ-likeness" you mention is really a manifestation of the Spirit and not just an imitation. It's not just something outward but something that issues out from God's operation within.

Do you concur with that explanation, Bible-believer?

Thanks,
Drake

Hi, Drake,
Rom.8:17 "For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. "
A pastor said if we did any good, it's not because of ourselves, but the indwelling Spirit who guided us into goodness. We should give the credit to Him, and I Amen to that.
I appreciate your explanation and understand your points. However, every saved Christian has God's operation within doesn't mean every Christian is God. That's two different things. Things different are not equal.

My question is not aimed at Br. Lee, but the teaching. I notice the method of his teaching, sometimes, was radical. i.g. "Four-in-one God".
In an LSM publication, A Deeper Study of the Divine Dispensing (p. 54), Lee states, ”My burden is to show you clearly that God’s economy and plan is to make Himself man and to make us, His created beings, God.” On page 53 we read, “We are born of God; hence, in this sense, we are God.”

To make radical statements and then balance them elsewhere in his teachings is not a good way, it's against the idea of “say what you mean and mean what you say.”
We can apply Bible verses to daily life devotionally, but when comes to the doctrines, we have to be careful not to make the Bible say things it doesn't say.

Br. Lee said that's his burden. Is his burden equal to God's burden? I am not sure. So I'd better ask the indwelling Spirit, the Spirit of truth, for the answer. He will guide me into all truth.

[Russian95]

Originally Posted by Drake

Hi Bible-believer,

You don't see how my argument relates to the topic of the post because of one very important reason........ I haven't done a very good job of explaining it! But be patient and maybe I'll get there.

I Corinthians 12:12 in and of itself does not explain the phrase "the Processed, Four-in-One God". It does however by way of analogy show how Christ has a Head and a Body just like our head and body. The phrase "...so also is..." confirms that. v12 does not use the words "life" but it is understood ...for the body without life is a corpse. Just as John 15 speaks about the Vine and branches, the word "life" is not mentioned but it is understood that the branches are organically one with the vine... it is a life union. So with the Christ - the Head and the Body.

You mentioned chapters 12-14 and said "That is individual members growing so that the Body will grow into “maturity” (in the sense of Christ-likeness)"


Okay, ... but how?

I Corinthians 12: 4-11

"But there are distinctions of gifts, but the same Spirit; And there a distinctions of ministries, yet the same Lord; and there are distinctions of operations, but the same God, who operates all things in all. But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for what is profitable. For to one through the Spirit a word of wisdom is given, and to another a word of knowledge, according to the same Spirit; to a different one faith in the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing in the one Spirit, and to another operations of works of power, and to another prophecy, and to another discerning of spirits; to a different one various kinds of tongues, and to another interpretation of tongues. But the one and the same Spirit operates all these things, distributing to each one respectively even as He purposes."

The Body grows to maturity by the Spirit, carries out its ministries by the Lord, and it is God who operates all things in all. The Body of Christ functions through and according to the same Spirit in the one Spirit. It is the one and same Spirit that operates all these things by that operation becomes the Spirit is manifested.

By these verses it is clearly stated that the Spirit, the Lord, and God operate in His many believers in an organic union to bring the many members of the Body of Christ into their God-given functions (gifts). The "Christ-likeness" you mention is really a manifestation of the Spirit and not just an imitation. It's not just something outward but something that issues out from God's operation within.

Do you concur with that explanation, Bible-believer?

Thanks,
Drake

Sorry to butt in, but I just cannot understand this interpretation of Head/Body in organic union indicating they form a single whole just from a conceptual point of view. Can a head exist without the body? Didn't God exist before/and doesn't he still exit outside Creation? Also, just like with my concern about mingling, when you combine one thing, the Head, with another, the Body, by definition a hybrid, third thing is produced. Just like when you graft onto a root-stock, a compound plant is produced. I don't understand how you can say that the root-stock, which has existed for a long time before grafting, is now the same root-stock even after a branch was grafted onto it, to produce its own fruit? Also, mind you, this grafting happens within Creation, but we also have to concern ourselves with the ontological God, outside Creation. Is He also grafted and if so to what? If not, are you claiming that the Trinity within Creation is different from that outside Creation? Wouldn't that be heretical?