Moved from Main Page: We Should Do Something

[ExChurchKid]

Hi all,
I would like to address a few things. First of all, thanks to all of you who defended me, and restored a tiny bit of my faith in the forum, by speaking the truth. I will mention that it took a lot of courage to log back on and post this. I took the time to draft this response and summary of how I feel beforehand, so I request that any other commenters please take the time to really consider what they want to say. I do see a lot of well-thought-out responses already, so I very much appreciate that. And some not-so-well-thought-out responses as well, so...I guess I shouldn't have expected too much.
Everything that jigsaw44 has said on this thread has cut me to the bone. Not because it is true, but because it is so blatantly false. Getting offended and blowing up at the slightest disagreement? Trolling through threads looking to attack those I disagree with on the forum? Utterly false, and I dare say, a much more accurate description of what jigsaw44, SonstoGlory, and Ohio do. Now, I will qualify this statement by saying that my only experience of these three is within the threads I have posted or commented on. The main ones are this thread, the libel suit thread, the I don’t understand this forum thread in Alternative Views, and the LGBTQ thread in Alternative Views. I have never begun a conversation by responding directly to any one of these three. In each case, I responded to them after they entered into a discussion I had started. It is true, I have publicly wondered why some of their comments haven’t been deleted, or even why they haven’t been banned. I am willing to revise the banning statement to say perhaps banned from certain threads? I am sure that is something UntoHim could arrange. Or perhaps, as with the women-only forum, we could have a non-envangelicals-only forum. Why does one not already exist? Perhaps that speaks to our moderator’s evangelical bias. But more on that later.
I think it is fitting that things ended up coming to a head on this thread, my original testimony thread, because I would like to add to my testimony. After leaving the Recovery, for a while I thought there was no one else who had experienced what I had, and that I was alone in my unique experience of growing up in the LCs and then leaving. It took me five years to realize that wasn’t true. I found this website. I posted my introduction, and received some really great validation of everything I had been carrying around inside me for five years, or you could say even for over two decades, if you include all of the times I felt I couldn’t express myself in the LC. Then I posted the libel suit thread, because I was angry that the Recovery had such power, and I thought we, who knew the truth of it, could do something. Christian, agnostic, athiest, or any other faith; I thought it wouldn’t matter if we were all united in our agreement that the Recovery was abusive to its members, and especially to those who are forced by their parents to be a part of it. Now, let’s revisit that thread, where the animosity began. In response to being a tad confused by Ohio’s assertions of kidnappings of LC members (Nell has since provided evidence, and Ohio himself added more detail, but at first I found it hard to believe), and us getting a little side-tracked, I posted this:
“I don't really understand the point you're trying to make, but yes, I would happily sue my parents, if I could find a lawyer to take the case. Anyways, I think we're going down a bit of a nebulous rabbit hole here.”
I was attempting to gracefully bow out, but I think this is the point at which I unintentionally hit a nerve, and he posted:
“You asked questions about books, lawsuits, and how we were affected. I tried to share a perspective from someone who lived thru it. Sorry if that is a nebulous rabbit hole to you. Perhaps others can help you.”
He wasn’t insulting per se, but he does sound a bit offended and patronizing. So I ignore it, the thread continues, jigsaw44 asks a very insightful question that I happily answer, and there are some disagreements (which are allowed in a public forum as long as they remain respectful). I think a nerve is hit in SonstoGlory when Nell says:
“So you think this forum is a "magnet" for airing grievances about something and a place for people to complain?

This forum is a safe place for wounded believers to come and say what they need to say. We try to help them...not pass judgment on them for being "negative". Suffering abuse IS negative.

Why are you here?”
SonstoGlory responds (this is just a part of his comment, and the only part that was a little questionable):
“So why am I here? I wonder a little about the tone of this inquiry . . . however, choosing to believe you meant it in the most innocent way, here's my answer. “
Again, not insulting per se, but a bit offended and patronizing. I think these little clues show us when nerves are hit. Then, the animosity comes out later. Not from SonstoGlory, who, props to him, gracefully bows out with:
“I believe I didn't communicate well and the basics of what I was attempting to convey was fairly misunderstood . . . not that important.

We move on. Sorry. “
But, from Ohio:
“Here we go again. Forum cancal culture on full display. Others ganging up on you to force you into submission and rally the troops to humiliate you? Seriously? There was nothing in your comments that should be apologized for. And now you are scrutinized for WHY you are here?

Hello folks, SonsToGlory doesn't have a mean bone in his body. He is one of the kindest brothers around. He loves the Lord and His body. He is only here to help.

On the contrary, he often gets pushback because he is not harsh enough on this forum towards the LC system. Imagine that. Please pass the irony.”
Ohio’s comment, in defense of SonstoGlory, is where the animosity begins. So I ask you to consider; where did the animosity start? With me? No. It started when nerves were hit in SonstoGlory and Ohio, and the reaction was disproportionately de-railing and contentious, exactly as jigsaw44 accuses me of doing. Here, as a side note, I will mention that it seems that the three I speak of take issue with me as a person, whereas I only take issue with their words and actions. We don’t judge people for who they are, but for what they do and say. Otherwise, we would never be able to revise our judgments. For instance, SonstoGlory apologized near the end of the libel suit, so at that point, I revised my thoughts on him.
But back to the thick of the thread. The animosity comes out again in response to my repeated attempts to request that the preaching end:
“I'm not a believer. God has no love or capability for me or my situation, if he is even real. Prayer does nothing in my experience, so what I need isn't prayer. I need you to accept that not everyone is a believer and that's okay”
“I am not a believer. I think what you are saying is false. You are free to have it be true to you, and I will not force my agnosticism on you, but to me it is false. Take your religiousness elsewhere and drop it. By forcing it on me, you are hurting the very type of person you claim you want to help. I have received no free gift and how dare you presume I have? If I am pushed much farther by the religion in portions of this forum, I will not be so nice about my agnosticism any longer. “
Back to Ohio (this is a summary, there are of course comments in between these comments):
“Under normal times, this vitriol would get you banned. STG never "forced" anything on you. He was completely kind towards you. You are completely free to ignore any comments about the love of God towards you by him or me or any other poster. But that does not give you a license to disrespect those whom you dislike or disagree with.

Agnosticism means that you don't know anything about God or care too. That is your prerogative. But it also seems like you don't know anything about STG either. Keep acting this way and you will lose your supporters too.”
I said nothing disrespectful, unless in Ohio’s mind, disrespectful meant disagreeing, which again is something jigsaw44 is claiming as a quality that I have (I will mention, Ohio has completely backed off lately, so I appreciate that). Meanwhile, jigsaw44 is repeatedly insinuating that something is wrong with me and SonstoGlory is only trying to help me, and that I have a hole in my heart, and that I need to speak to Trapped to get that fixed (side note, I was having pleasant conversations with Trapped, but those conversations were not about how to ignore derailing of discussions in the forum). Nell asks me to downgrade my description of what SonstoGlory is saying from hypocritical to tone-deaf, which I do. He posts another tone-deaf comment, which I call out, and at that point Ohio says:
“Have you ordained yourself as the forum speech-Nazi?

STG was gracefully backing out of the discussion but you still took a parting shot.”
This cut me to the bone, as jigsaw44’s comments have in this thread, because it was both false and hurtful. So I decide to leave the forum:
“Congratulations Ohio! I'm done. You hurt me to the point of wanting to leave this forum. Isn't that what you wanted? I'm sure that makes you feel so powerful and Christ-like. Have fun injuring future ex-LC-raised-kids. Jesus will be so proud.”
Clearly, I came back later, after I received some support from other members of the forum, and SonstoGlory apologized. Then, based on his accusing me of refusing help in his comments in this thread, I believe I hit a nerve in jigsaw44 with this:
“You have repeatedly stated that I have a hole in my heart and that I need help. Please stop insinuating that I need help. I am asking you respectfully. I have not asked for help in this thread, only for discussion regarding the libel suit. I am conversing with Trapped about certain things, and I am happy with how that is going. “
He agrees, I thank him, and that is that. UntoHim posts a warning that any further off-topic comments on that thread will be deleted. Jigsaw44 posts:
“The way he is using Nazi in this regard is just a reference to the connotation of being overly authoritarian/control freak. It's like when people use the term "grammar" Nazi when referring someone who persecutes people who don't have the utmost highest standard in language/literature. I can see how people will take it negatively and maybe overthink the use of it. I am not taking sides here and taking a stance on his statement, I'm simply just want to clear the air and make clear he is not trying to directly call you a supporter or sympathizer for the national socialist party of the German empire in the 1930s-40s.............

Ohio prob is a little aggrivated from the interactions from exchurcmmeber and himself but Ill let him speak for himself since he is more than capable of doing so. “
I report it to UntoHim for being off-topic, and it isn’t deleted. That frustrates me. Then, I come across something I want to post to the LGBTQ thread, so I post it. SonstoGlory at some point jumps in with some slightly off-topic stuff about Christ, and after some back and forth of me asking him to stop, I post (not understanding how he could continue to act the same way after the libel suit thread apology):
“It isn't a Christian forum. Unless I'm missing something, it is a Local Churches forum. Also, it is a place for logical, productive discussion. You are neither being logical, nor participating in productive discussion.

Religion is like a penis. It's fine to have one, and to be proud of it, but it isn't okay to whip it out in public and start waving it around, and it especially isn't okay to shove it down anyone's throat.”
Personally, I think that was the most respectful way I could get him to understand what he was doing. He posts:
“LC, Christian, whatever.

Nobody is shoving anything down your throat. You seem to have an extreme visceral and emotional reaction to anybody sharing anything of their faith. (If someone's faith is real to them, then wouldn't that just come out pretty naturally, openly and frequently?)

You are welcome to tune out things you see on here, and if you don't like what I say, then just ignore it and don't reply to me. Of course, maybe I can't see the speck in your eye for the huge log in my own . . . (or is it the other way around?)

In other words - lighten up and perhaps be a little less sensitive, okay?! “
I reported it. It was insensitive, and just a repeat of the libel suit thread, but perhaps more insulting. It wasn’t removed. So with all of this going on, in this thread (which has now been moved to Alternative Views...why exactly?) Trapped mentions they’re glad I stuck around. I say:
“Thanks, Trapped, that's very nice of you to say. I will mention that StG and jigsaw (much more so the former, on the lgbtq thread in alt views, but jigsaw just had to throw something into the libel suit thread after we had gotten things back on track) are pushing at my patience again. I've reported their comments, but...it feels pretty nasty to feel like I have to be nice and play by the rules while they're lobbing unnecessary comments at me and the discussions I'm trying to have.



Thank you for the very well thought-out response, and all the supporting verses (it's always good to see something come straight from the Bible). Follow-up question: why didn't God want Adam and Eve to have the knowledge in Eden? “
Jigsaw44 sees it, and all hell breaks loose on this thread. I mention his name once, and tell him I take issue with his specific response in the libel suit thread after UntoHim’s warning, and he loses his marbles, just as he accused me of losing mine. Yet I am the one who reacts too strongly? Who creates roadblocks to productive discussion? It is so ridiculous that it’s hurtful. I would like to repeat what I said earlier in this thread to jigsaw44, because I mean it:
“Thank you, but no, anything you want to say to me you can say in public. I take issue with your response #103 from the libel suit thread. You threw in an unnecessary defense of how vitriolic Ohio was being, after UntoHim had already gotten us back on track and warned the ones who had derailed the conversation in the first place. God, why is this forum full of hypocrites??? StG freaks out if anyone so much as questions his precious self-declared angelic character, and Ohio throws insults everywhere at the slightest provocation, and rushes to defend his bro StG if anyone even dares to disagree with him. Such a representation of everything wrong with religion. Why am I even here? I am unwanted, by people who claim they love God, so what does that say of how God feels of me? “
Shortly after I saw his first essay on what’s wrong with me, I turned off PMs and notifications, logged out, and lost a little more faith in God and Christians. This is after asking UntoHim to delete my account and when he refused, to at least ban me so I could be done with this forum. For some reason, I was lacking the self-control to stop caring about the forum, as long as I was a member. Only because UntoHim refused and I saw others come to my defense am I back, and only to post this. Even now, SonstoGlory is attempting to make all of this about God.
It is easy for God to become something to hide behind, so you don’t have to examine your words and actions too closely. It causes people to lose introspection. I think that is what is happening in this forum, sometimes. In addition, as previously mentioned, we have a moderator who is biased towards evangelicals. SerenityLives was right when she said I was attempting to moderate for myself, since UntoHim was not doing it for me. Unless UntoHim agrees to make more moderators, or start moderating more fairly, or we as the members somehow figure out how to take moderation into our own hands, I do not want to waste more time and energy here. I am tired of seeing comments that make my blood boil, and provoking disproportionate responses when I attempt to restrain myself and address them with respect. I am tired of getting comments from SonstoGlory that make me feel like I'm still in the LC, and that would be considered extremely disrespectful if he was peddling anything other than Christianity in this forum. Jigsaw44 claiming to remain neutral until he couldn’t take my responses anymore? How false! It was the other way around. In addition, was Jesus respectful when he threw the tax collectors out of the temple? I would say no. Yet he’s the same man who claimed whatever anyone did to the least member he would consider as being done to him. I think this speaks to the balance between respect, protecting the vulnerable, and righteous indignation. This is my righteous indignation. UntoHim, if this is an evangelical forum, then at least be honest about it. But I would ask all of you evangelicals here to consider, what picture do you paint of the Christ you claim to follow, when you speak the way you have spoken to me on this forum? When you hurt the least among you?
Well, thanks for reading. My PMs and notifications are still off. SerenityLives and awareness know how to contact me if things improve.