Latter Rain, Kingdom Now, & the Lord's Recovery

[aron]

There is a reason I brought up the subject of signs. Jesus' resurrection from the dead was the sign from God that his ministry was fully validated and now he is in glory. If one believes into the resurrection of Jesus from the dead, one tacitly accepts his position as "firstborn of creation". Case closed.

With the apostles, they were picked by Jesus and thus validated. Paul received the right hand of fellowship. The NAR and any other Apostolic-wanna-be lacks all of this. They have their delusion and their ability to convince others that it is real. But guess what - there are plenty of dupes out there, unfortunately. I was one. A mass of followers doesn't validate an apostle. Neither do signs.

Jesus alone has the validated sign - resurrection. The NT apostles were chosen by Jesus. Any other "apostle", whether RCC or post-Protestant has none of these. They get reflecting pools and mausoleums when they die. None of them has been resurrected. Only Jesus has. So claims of greatness not only ring hollow, but should be automatically viewed with suspiction.

Another thing that Jo S mentioned, is the connection between hyper-excited "charismatic" states and the susceptibility to suggestion. This is a danger. They get you to be subjective, and then they impose their subjectivity (which is self-oriented, natch). At some point they may even be telling you scripture is "fallen" and "natural concepts" (!!!) while you hang on their every word as if it came from God.

All of us who believe have some ability to channel God. All of us who believe have some residue which might block God, and interpose self-will of fallen man. Peter is used in the NT as an example of this. Revelation is seen, as well as error.

The New Apostle side-steps this with a special Untouchable status. And then everyone else is measured how they relate to the NA. This kind of referent point is only reserved for Jesus Christ. This last point may or may not apply to the NAR folk, but it certainly applies to Witness Lee and Watchman Nee. Ruth Lee apparently became an atheist when she realized Watchman Nee was a fallen human being like any other, with human frailty and foibles.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by aron

But guess what - there are plenty of dupes out there, unfortunately. I was one. A mass of followers doesn't validate an apostle. Neither do signs.

When the prey is young people, I wouldn't call them dupes. They are definitely victims. We were victims. They exploited our idealism and trust.

But I agree that signs alone don't validate an apostle. But to me they are a minimum requirement. A following means little. Anyone ruthless enough can come up with a way to get a following. Just look at L. Ron Hubbard.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Igzy

But I agree that signs alone don't validate an apostle. But to me they are a minimum requirement. A following means little. Anyone ruthless enough can come up with a way to get a following. Just look at L. Ron Hubbard.

Not only did Paul list "signs" as evidence, but also his suffering. Sufferings of all kinds, with little comfort to justify his status. This to me is a greater proof, the proving of our faith, trials by sufferings, so that what passes thru is of God alone.

Ministers love to duplicate his "hankerchief" miracles (Acts 19.12), but who is willing to suffer as he did, for the Lord, for the truth, for the gospel, for the saints, and for righteousness sake? Paul took his sufferings from the Lord, not just the "thorns," and did not see them as from the "devil." Who could ever be a real minister, when all he has to share is the gospel of "prosperity."

The apostles thus battled false "super-apostles" their entire lives. Endless counterfeits came and went, deceiving the elect. How much more today.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by aron

The New Apostle side-steps this with a special Untouchable status.

From a small child I was indoctrinated with this evil, called the "infallibility of the Pope." It was never questioned. Endless modifications of this same theme have been used to deceive God's children for centuries.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Ohio

From a small child I was indoctrinated with this evil, called the "infallibility of the Pope." It was never questioned. Endless modifications of this same theme have been used to deceive God's children for centuries.

It all comes down to: Does your leader seem like your servant, or like your lord? If he seems like your lord, he is not a biblical leader.

[Jo S]

Thesis on the "House Church Movement".

[Jo S]

The Lord's Recovery movement's main inertia comes from Dominionism or Kingdom Now theology.

This is a heretical and non scriptural teaching turns Christ's 2nd coming into a works based effort where taking every city for God and establishing a Local Church in each one is a requirement before he returns. Kingdom Now theology exalts man and makes God dependent on man and his faith in order for God to accomplish His will. God’s rule is diminished and His sovereignty is attacked.

People that adhere to this theology view themselves as the end-time army for God with the command to take dominion over three areas; 1) societal, 2) economic, and 3) religious spheres. The Local Churches fall into the third category.

Here's a website explaining Kingdom Now theology which is also a popular belief among charismatic faiths;

https://www.gotquestions.org/kingdom-now.html

[aron]

The connection between Watchman Nee, the Latter Rain and New Apostolic Reformation is probably stronger than most realize.

Here is a link to a website that points out the connection.

https://coveringandauthority.com/?fb...aRBmORYX8A_3Mk

[Jo S]

Originally Posted by countmeworthy

EXCELLENT insight and info!!! Thanks!

You're welcome!

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by aron

The connection between Watchman Nee, the Latter Rain and New Apostolic Reformation is probably stronger than most realize.

Here is a link to a website that points out the connection.

https://coveringandauthority.com/?fb...aRBmORYX8A_3Mk

Who would have thought. It is so important for us to seek the TRUTH, to study the Word with the help of God the Holy Spirit so we are not tossed to and fro with every wind of doctrine.. especially false doctrine and false teachings.

Thanks Aron!

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by Jo S

The Lord's Recovery movement's main inertia comes from Dominionism or Kingdom Now theology.

This is a heretical and non scriptural teaching turns Christ's 2nd coming into a works based effort where taking every city for God and establishing a Local Church in each one is a requirement before he returns. Kingdom Now theology exalts man and makes God dependent on man and his faith in order for God to accomplish His will. God’s rule is diminished and His sovereignty is attacked.

People that adhere to this theology view themselves as the end-time army for God with the command to take dominion over three areas; 1) societal, 2) economic, and 3) religious spheres. The Local Churches fall into the third category.

Here's a website explaining Kingdom Now theology which is also a popular belief among charismatic faiths;

https://www.gotquestions.org/kingdom-now.html

EXCELLENT insight and info!!! Thanks!

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by Igzy

It all comes down to: Does your leader seem like your servant, or like your lord? If he seems like your lord, he is not a biblical leader.

WOW!! you guys are on a roll with outstanding observations! muchas gracias for sharing your findings.

[Jo S]

Another thing to look out for in those that adhere to the spirit of the New Apostolic Reformation is an inclination toward, or even an obsession with, the Song of Songs.

Brian Simmons, a main leader of the NAR movement, (who authored the official NAR bible translation; "The Passion Translation") also based his very first book on the Song of Songs.

The NAR minded believer's faith is typically centered around the "subjective Christ" and the pursuit of spiritual passion and ecstasy, as in focusing on the "joy of the Lord" (which is really just induced states of consciousness) so they're naturally drawn to the Song of Songs as it's poetry that primarily celebrates human sexuality and passion.

While doing research I discovered a book written by GLA Local Church "apostle" and "prophet", Titus Chu, coincidentally carrying an identical title to that of Brian Simmons book; "Song of Songs, A Divine Romance".

https://ministrymessages.org/song-of-songs-dr/

I don't know if that's where the coincidence ends but nevertheless it was interesting to discover...

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by aron

Ruth Lee apparently became an atheist when she realized Watchman Nee was a fallen human being like any other, with human frailty and foibles.

How did you find this out? just curious as I never heard tthis. But I never knew W Lee was twice married either

[aron]

Originally Posted by countmeworthy

How did you find this out? just curious as I never heard tthis. But I never knew W Lee was twice married either

I believe that poster 'awareness' noted this about Ruth Lee, sourced from Dana Roberts' biography. Hardly anything could be more damning of Nee's ministry and the damage it brought forth was in the 'flipped' role of women. With Nee, his closest coterie were women. In Witness Lee's hagiography of Nee (one can't call it a biography, proper) there is a whole chapter on the women who served with (mostly under) Nee. Then 80 years later they're relegated to anonymity and servitude. Once they had served their purpose they were discarded. Do you think Peace Wang or Dora Yu or Ruth Lee would last a fortnight with today's Blendeds? I doubt it.

And I don't mean to ignite a firestorm over the role of women in the churches today. I'm simply pointing out the glaring hypocrisy of using women to gain control, then summarily dumping them.

The power of God raised Jesus from the dead. "And the power was with him [Jesus] to heal." This same power is with Peter and Paul in the book of Acts. Yet Peter and the Jerusalem church is never "under" Paul, nor vice versa. Those who claim dominion over the souls of others are precisely those evil fallen spirits that Paul calls the authorities of the air. Reject them utterly. That is my advice. Call them out for what they are and their grip on you is done.

People who try to control others are demonstrating that they themselves lack the power of self-control, thus they "feed" on others. When I talked to someone in the LC, about 8 or 10 months ago, they told me of the campus recruiting efforts, and called it "fresh blood for the Body." Hel-lo?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by aron

I believe that poster 'awareness' noted this about Ruth Lee, sourced from Dana Roberts' biography.

Hindsight is not 20/20. From here today it's hard to sort all this out.

When I saw that I noted that Ruth Lee became an atheist after discovery of Nee's sexual immorality, I went on a frantic search to find where I got it, if I even did.

I haven't found it yet. But I did find that before Nee she was an avowed atheist. Did she -- like my Chinese wife after Lee, btw -- go back to it after Nee? I haven't found it yet. Will keep looking tho.

And aron is right. Ruth Lee was a fiery preacher, and serious co-worker with Nee, in the early development stages of Nee's movement.

But then I read, that because the Bible forbade women over men, that they would listen to females giving sermons from behind a sheet.

I don't recall any women giving sermons in the local church, sheets or otherwise.

I think countmeworthy should go there and preach today. She might turn the whole movement around ... and found The Blended Sisters.