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03-23-2019, 04:48 PM
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#1 |
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 718
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Re: A Time of Turmoil and the Defaming of a Leader
https://www.amazon.com/Time-Turmoil-.../dp/150564013X
AMAZON: A Time of Turmoil and the Defaming of a Leader: Examining Ron Kangas' Slanted and Superficial Depiction of John Ingalls Dear Admin, I wonder if we could block this for now and see if fellowship opens up with Ron and LSM. Don't buy, readers, i have links. Steve Isitt |
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03-23-2019, 05:12 PM
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#2 |
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Οὕτως γὰρ ἠγάπησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν κόσμον For God So Loved The World
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,828
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Re: Leaders of the Lord's Recovery
Steve,
I'm confused (not that that is very hard to do!).....What is it that you want me to block? -
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αὐτῷ ἡ δόξα καὶ τὸ κράτος εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας τῶν αἰώνων ἀμήν - 1 Peter 5:11 |
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03-24-2019, 12:07 PM
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#3 |
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 718
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Re: Leaders of the Lord's Recovery
The Issues Presented by John Ingalls March 19, 1989 March 19, 1989 -- March 24, 2019 30 years http://www.leadersofthelordsrecovery...considered.pdf Debilitating Characterizations by Ron Kangas December 2018 RECENT SOUND BYTE regarding John Ingalls http://www.blendedbody.com/_cl/_audi...he2ndStage.mp3 Recent LSM Speaking “Here I need to point out a real heavy concern I have. And this supported again by the word of Brother Lee’s ministry. So many saints stop here with the conscience. And how they end up is not being God-men, just being good people caring for right and wrong according to the conscience, dealing with the conscience. "John Ingalls could tell us, he told us openly in his last meeting in Anaheim, when he was resigning and also attacking Brother Lee in 18 or 19 ways. He said, ‘I’m at peace with myself, I’m at peace with God, I’m at peace with all of you.’ “But he was obsessed. That’s a false peace, I remember him giving a message with a certain kind of gesture, “I was deeealling [deep voice] with my conscience. Dealing, straining gnats. He was straining gnats to "swallow a camel.” RK Dec 2018 Ron is saying that john, in his 18 points' fellowship was just "straining gnats," small things, to "swallow a camel, Brother Lee. None of the points were small, but vitally important as the church had marched far off the track and away from the vision that John, Brother Lee, Samuel Chang and others began with and stood for when they "took the ground" in Los Angeles. John was not attacking, but giving transparent fellowship about the real situation in Anaheim and according to the original vision, for the sake of the church he helped spawn in the beginning. |
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03-25-2019, 06:21 AM
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#4 |
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Greater Ohio
Posts: 13,693
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Re: Leaders of the Lord's Recovery
From the article above, I quoted this below from John Ingalls "18 Points":
12. Our attitude toward other Christians is one of belittling them and thinking we’re superior. What we need is the reality of oneness, not just the teaching or slogan.Read the above quote again! How could any fair-minded Christian consider John's Point #12 to be an attack on WL? Yet it has been publicly considered by the Blendeds to be a direct attack -- 18 Bullets -- aimed at "our dear Brother Witness Lee." I could point out hundreds of verses where the Bible specifically condemns high-minded pride and having pitiful attitudes towards others. I cannot find a single verse to justify Lee's condescending attitudes towards every other child of God. How can the Lord Jesus ever get thru to these leaders at LSM, when they reject honest words from the Lord such as these as some "vast global conspiracy by rebellious lepers?"
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Ohio's motto is: With God all things are possible!. Keeping all my posts short, quick, living, and to the point! |
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03-26-2019, 12:05 PM
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#5 | |
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Renton, Washington
Posts: 3,562
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Re: Leaders of the Lord's Recovery
Quote:
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03-26-2019, 04:27 PM
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#6 |
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 718
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Re:Priceless Heritage or Fortified Stronghold
http://leadersofthelordsrecovery.us/...Stronghold.pdf
To have fellowship with brothers in Christ in the Spirit and in brotherly love is a priceless heritage of ours.
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10-21-2020, 07:01 PM
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#7 | |
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 718
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Re: Coming Clean in the System of Authority and Submission
Quote:
I think it is amazing that government officials in Washington D.C. lie about their criminal acts and wrongdoings and dig in when they are caught; instead of confessing. But they have a team of people who are in coordination to cover them and to cover-up for them, if needed. We wouldn’t allow such a government in the church life, right? But we do have a system of church government that tells us not to care for right and wrong; but to look away from the mistakes of a leader (deputy authority) and respect “God’s government” instead. In so doing, a system of authority and submission began, which can be traced back to the resumption of Watchman Nee’s ministry in 1948 that followed his 6-year suspension. Actually, these two systems work similarly to cover the backs of leaders and to cover-up for them, unrighteously, when needed. It is much better to see the vision of our failure(s); be abhorred by it; and pursue determinedly a good conscience before God and man, and a pure testimony of Jesus. S. I. Timeline of Watchman Nee Era http://www.LordsRecovery.us/Timeline...hmanNeeEra.pdf Timeline of Witness Lee Era http://www.LordsRecovery.us/Timeline...ssLeeEraUS.pdf Cycles of God Accomplishing and Satan Destroying The Bible is a book of recovery says Witness Lee, showing cycles of God accomplishing and Satan destroying in Concerning the Lord’s Recovery. Foreword by Benson Phillips: “In both the Old Testament and the New Testament God's purpose, intention, and goal to have man as His expression is clearly revealed. Also, His accomplishments according to that intention can be clearly seen. Furthermore, both Testaments give a clear record of how Satan, God's enemy, works to corrupt and destroy what God has accomplished. Finally, the two Testaments reveal how God comes in after Satan's destruction to regain His expression. This regaining of His expression is the basic matter of the Lord's recovery. God plans and God accomplishes; then Satan destroys and God recovers.” (Concerning the Lord’s Recovery, 1983, Witness Lee) A Quick but Valuable Overview Witness Lee shares in his book on “the basic matter” of recovery – regaining God’s expression. “The complete model of the church in the Old Testament was the temple. When the temple was fully built up, the glory of God came down. This means that God Himself came down as the glory to cover the temple and to fill the temple up. That was the picture of the full accomplishment of God's purpose. Lost “But then Satan came in first to ruin and corrupt the people. The temple was built up during the glorious reign of Solomon the king. But Solomon himself took the lead to become rotten and corrupt. He was corrupted by the pagan concubines. The concubines brought in the idols, and this ruined the people. The entire nation of Israel was ruined, so God had no way to dwell among them. He had to give them up. Then the Babylonian army came to destroy the temple and the Holy City and to capture the people away to Babylon. The first forefather of the children of Israel was Abraham, who was called out of Babel. Satan came in to bring all of Abraham's descendants back to the very place Abraham was called out of. So whatever God accomplished was gone.” (Concerning the Lord’s Recovery, online, ch 1, sect 2, 1983, W. Lee) Regained “But after seventy years God came in to do a recovery work. God came in to recover the thing that was lost. In the recovery of God's expression the scale was not so big as the original, but the quality was higher. By reading Ezra, Nehemiah, Haggai, and Zechariah you could see that the returned people were deeply dealt with by God. Their spiritual morality and character were higher than those of the children of Israel before the temple was built. In a sense Solomon was not that moral; he had many concubines. That is terrible! That is a kind of unveiling of the rottenness of that king of wisdom. He was wise, but he was rotten. His morality was too low! But after the captivity, in the recovery, the character of God's people was very much uplifted. If you considered Ezra and Nehemiah, you would have to admit that these leaders were pure and moral. Their character had a high standard. So as to quality the Lord's recovery was higher than what had been there previously.” (chapter 1, section 3, 1983) Gaining A Pure Testimony of Jesus - 1983 “The Lord's recovery is really among us, and, although the scale is quite small, the standard of the character is higher than Christianity. In the Lord's recovery the high standard of the character must be kept and maintained. Some have checked with me asking, Do you mean that all the other Christians are rotten and that only the local church people are not rotten? I don't mean that. If any people have become rotten, they are no more in the reality of the Lord's recovery. Whatever and whoever is rotten is not in the recovery. The local churches are people who have been recovered out of their rottenness back to the pure church life. The local church is not a kind of organization or religious group. The local church is the pure church life as a pure testimony of Jesus. If we become rotten, we are no longer in the reality of the Lord's recovery. (Witness Lee, chap. 1 section 4, 1983) On Not Reaching the Standard of our Vision – 1994 Eleven years later Witness Lee shares about not succeeding to reach the standard over a 72 year period: “From Brother Nee’s time until today, for seventy-two years, our practice has never come up to the standard of our vision that we have received of the Lord. Brother Nee stressed two things: Christ as life to produce the church and the church as the Body of Christ to express Christ. But, sorry to say, it was not only the outsiders who did not know these things; even among Brother Nee’s co-workers, who were my contemporaries, very few have fully entered into the realization of these two matters. Not to mention the matter of the Body of Christ, they did not even see the matter of Christ as life to us. “In 1934 a letter came to me from Watchman Nee saying…that the vision we had received from the Lord concerned Christ as our life to produce the church, not as an organization but as a Body, an organism, to express Christ. This, he said, is what we have seen, and this is what we should preach and teach. Brother Nee wrote these words twelve years after the beginning of the recovery in China in 1922. From the time that I began my ministry until today I have put out many books concerning the vision that we have seen. Through all the years, in mainland China, in Taiwan, in southeast Asia, and in the West today, in our practice we have never come up to the standard of what we have seen.” (Living a Life According to the High Peak of God’s Revelation, p. 38, W. L.) *** But, in response, neither has the leadership come up to standard to lead the churches into repentance even though the truth has been made clear to the leaders from many and varied sources. No repentances, no high standard. And, also no revival.To repeat, “The local church is the pure church life as a pure testimony of Jesus. If we become rotten, we are no longer in the reality of the Lord's recovery.” (Witness Lee, chap. 1 section 4, 1983) “This is why in the New Testament the Apostle Paul would not tolerate any kind of immorality. In 1 Corinthians 5 Paul charged the church not to associate with that immoral person. The church as a pure testimony of Christ would not tolerate any impurity, any immorality. The church has to be pure. Once the church becomes rotten, it loses its nature and standing as the Lord's testimony….” In addition to going off course, blame was displaced onto others for the turmoil, division, and quarantines that ensued. When will those on the path of deviation judge themselves? And come clean in the House of God. S. I. 10-21-2020 |
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01-01-2021, 05:53 PM
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#8 |
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 718
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Re: Fermentation of the Present Rebellion Assessed
After being driven to the point of questioning seriously the legitimacy of the “Lord’s New Move,” planned and orchestrated in the “local churches” by Witness Lee, I began to research his claims about the causes of turmoil and division, and also compared his new move to the blueprint he had brought to the United States. At the end of his ministry in 1997, he admitted that he had made "mistakes" concerning staying on the right path of receiving believers; both those "among us" and those outside the local churches. He said he had repented before the Lord and was "sorry to the whole Body of Christ," yet he wasn’t specific about who or what he was referring to but did convey that those "mistakes" were very important and should be researched. He had really under-stated the matter, as history shows. It would have been at a high price for him to tell the truth regarding his "mistakes" and the major causes of division and the persons, places, and details involved. He left this heavy burden first to the leaders, and also to all the saints - that we might learn!
I became pressed in my church life experience to know our history, learning it from men of conscience who paid the price of offering transparent fellowship in the church; but a price was paid also by those who did not become men of conscience, and are suffering the consequences today, as are the churches! https://lordsrecovery.us/MiscAccusationsCH1.pdf Last edited by Indiana; 01-02-2021 at 05:46 AM. |
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01-02-2021, 09:36 PM
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#9 |
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 278
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Re: Coming Clean in the System of Authority and Submission
[QUOTE=Indiana;96059]Coming Clean
“This is why in the New Testament the Apostle Paul would not tolerate any kind of immorality. In 1 Corinthians 5 Paul charged the church not to associate with that immoral person. The church as a pure testimony of Christ would not tolerate any impurity, any immorality. The church has to be pure. Once the church becomes rotten, it loses its nature and standing as the Lord's testimony….” When we read Bible a lot then we know author's mind and thoughts. We should learn how to catch false thoughts and false ideas. Just between words! Church is spiritual! Our salvation is about our soul. If we follow Holly Spirit then is no problem. But can we be holly 24/7? No! Can we be found at that day waiting for Christ clean and holly? Yes! Will be all 10 virigins ready for bridegroom? No! So why WL was expecting that church has to be perfect? What is church? You see that? No consequences in thoughts and teaching. Paul said that he is not perfect but he forgot what is behind and pursuing ahead... Don't we see our dual life? We have to be perfected and being focused on good things. Yes! But ecclesia-group of people of the called ones. But really if you exercise spirit and listen carefully what WL says You will see hidden idea of " we will do it, we have to, it should be like"! And now we see this exaggeration. On one hand yes! I have to be holly! I have to come to Lord and have fellowship with Him. I have to be full of His word. I can not expect this from others. I will tell You one example. One brother left fellowship and went to the world. We tried few times warm up him. I joined him in pub, he was drinking too much but i was full of hope that if I stay with him he will go with me closer to Lord. But he did not! rathe I felt dirty by dust of this world. So l understood that that was his choice and his heart. Sometimes we can do nothing but pray. But that was organic situation. But the time when we make rule from this without life and Holly Spirit leading we will end up in religion and new testament comandments. The same happen with Witeness Lee. He was honest, he saw need of oneness but unfortunately it became man's work. I am not surprised that he did not see"reality" of thae Body. It is just because he was wrong just before he said "see"!!! Don't you see this expectation of seeing something on this Earth!!!??? Jesus said that only way world will recognize we are children of God will be mutual love!!! No one place, no teaching about symbols in Old Testament, no white shirts and black pants! They are so lost in their teachings and symbols that they do not see simplicity of faith. No one can force Jesus to come earlier and faster! Waiting and waiting. Like expecting thief in the night! All this happen in us. In our spirit. Bride waas prepared in heaven! We have connection with heaven. Our spirit is connected. Yes, thare are friuts of our inner life. But building expectation that "church" ( unspoken definition - we group visible people) have to bahave perfect is not biblical. We as group will be allways complex of different people in different condition. And there is a place for helping oters to grow up. There is a verse saing that "You, who think that are stronger, correct weaker in a spirit of gentleness". And many many other verses showing not perfect life but people on path of perfection. P.S. WL In sentence above misled saints. No where stays this way, that Paul could not stand immorality. For christians this is obvious. Child born again from God has new conscience! and You see how he is building thought that: Paul had authority and he had some certain power to order. Of course You and me and Paul and Apollos and all saints would not tatnd immorality!On one hand Yes. He had authority from God. But if we reacall who Paul was, how Jesus saved him, what is our salvation, that we have love from God, we are servants of others, and if we catch general idea of spiritual work, then we will never build religion. So as I mentioned above there i s a time to say stop to sinning brother. We have to learn how to recognize situation in way of live. And result of this fleshly ideas of utopia is at least man's work, man power, asking brothers to rapport if any body is complaining during training FTTL and removing him without fellowship. Etc.Etc. Simply poor "christianty" as they wanted stay away from. Pity! So one more Time, we have to be like Bereans discerning words and thoughts. And really this is funny that in their book of Charachter of godly man stays that we have to listen wht brother says, what he wanted to say, and wht he did not say. I like it! So be careful how listen no what. Discern spirits and thoughts! |
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05-05-2021, 05:53 PM
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#10 | |
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Renton, Washington
Posts: 3,562
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Re: Coming Clean in the System of Authority and Submission
Quote:
Thirty years ago or so John Ingalls released a book, "Speaking the Truth In Love". Only one edition. If it wasn't for the labor of one or two to put in Word form and make it available, who knows how many it would not have reached? Yet though John is with the Lord now, LSM doesn't want his testimony to be read. Both of these systems employ propaganda (Fermentation of the Present Rebellion) to gain traction with people. Propaganda is easily put together, but truth and facts takes much longer time to be released. Secular government and in the church there are those wanting to maintain control and will go to any means. Just as I saw it 30 years, I see it now. Those that do the persecuting (LSM and the far left) are in fact projecting what they've been doing all along. What better way to maintain power in the church than the doctrine of deputy authority. Those that resist against the doctrine will simply be labeled as "rebellious", "independent", "ambitious". You will hear phrases such as "be one with the brothers" or "get right with the brothers". Almost seems like a one-sided relationship. Maybe it is. |
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03-24-2019, 11:46 AM
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#11 | |
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 718
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Re: A Time of Turmoil and the Defaming of a Leader
Quote:
...... https://www.amazon.com/Time-Turmoil-.../dp/150564013X the Amazon book is advertised with an introduction (a brief letter to Ron and Kerry), and a further transparent word from the preface to the book. Dear Saints, again, Ron has shown no interest to fellowship; His speaking has had serious damaging effect in the Body of Christ; He is ignoring facts and his conscience, and thereby amplifies our concern, with no oversight or check on him coming from within the Local Churches. |
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