Whistleblower

[UntoHim]

I'm only going to re-post this one more time. The next time I will assume you are playing games and moderate you accordingly. Please slow down and re-read the following:

Originally Posted by JLBW

I can tell you there are many many women and girls who have been abused and harmed by "elders" and leading "brothers" in the LC and I was one of them.
I was expected to submit to the brothers and I did.

If you don't believe this sister than you don't believe her. We all know that "you have never seen or heard of such a thing in the local church". Yes, yes, we all know that is what you are going to say. Go for it and be done with it my man. But it is now painfully obvious that there are many things that have taken place and are currently taken place in the Local Church of Witness Lee that you have not personally seen or heard of. As JLBW already pointed out to you, that doesn't mean that didn't happen or that they are taking place to this very day.

Keep it up, and I'm going to sick "The Sheepdog" after ya.
-

[Nell]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

I'm only going to re-post this one more time. The next time I will assume you are playing games and moderate you accordingly. Please slow down and re-read the following:

If you don't believe this sister than you don't believe her. We all know that "you have never seen or heard of such a thing in the local church". Yes, yes, we all know that is what you are going to say. Go for it and be done with it my man. But it is now painfully obvious that there are many things that have taken place and are currently taken place in the Local Church of Witness Lee that you have not personally seen or heard of. As JLBW already pointed out to you, that doesn't mean that didn't happen or that they are taking place to this very day.

Keep it up, and I'm going to sick "The Sheepdog" after ya.
-

JLBW,
I am repeating myself as well:

... Also, Martha and Mary's House is a good private place for women to share among other women.

There are a couple of posters who contributed to Whistleblower with an obvious goal of derailing the subject. To me this only shows how important this topic is to the sisters and important to the house of God that this sin be exposed and dealt with.

Remember, if you want to, we can take the points of Whistleblower to Martha and Mary's House. I think the honorable brothers on this forum have much to contribute, and I hate that it may come to this. Regardless, it's not likely that Drake can control himself.

Nell

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Nell

JLBW,
I am repeating myself as well:



Remember, if you want to, we can take the points of Whistleblower to Martha and Mary's House. I think the honorable brothers on this forum have much to contribute, and I hate that it may come to this. Regardless, it's not likely that Drake can control himself.

Nell

Amen.

JLBW, I advise you to not engage Drake. The guy is about as trustworthy as a cobra with heat rash.

Drake, Back off.

[JLBW]

Originally Posted by Igzy

Amen.

JLBW, I advise you to not engage Drake. The guy is about as trustworthy as a cobra with heat rash.

Drake, Back off.

Thanks you for your cherishing words. I engaged but only because in Christ I'm strong enough to subdue/kill a cobra😉
You all are awesome supports and I appreciate all the love and care. My guess is that Drake cannot do anything to go against the BBs so he's not going to offer me help. I'd be happy to get some closure and money from my attacker.....but so far I've just trusted the Lord for healing and supply. And He is Good!!

[Cal]

Originally Posted by JLBW

Thanks you for your cherishing words. I engaged but only because in Christ I'm strong enough to subdue/kill a cobra.

Alright!! Well done!

[Drake]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

I'm only going to re-post this one more time. The next time I will assume you are playing games and moderate you accordingly. Please slow down and re-read the following:

If you don't believe this sister than you don't believe her. We all know that "you have never seen or heard of such a thing in the local church". Yes, yes, we all know that is what you are going to say. Go for it and be done with it my man. But it is now painfully obvious that there are many things that have taken place and are currently taken place in the Local Church of Witness Lee that you have not personally seen or heard of. As JLBW already pointed out to you, that doesn't mean that didn't happen or that they are taking place to this very day.

Keep it up, and I'm going to sick "The Sheepdog" after ya.
-

UntoHim,

Please, stop threatening me with moderation. I've read it several times so don't worry about that. Furthermore, I've done nothing, nor said a single thing worthy of even a minor edit. On the other hand, you've allowed this christian forum to become a pit of profanity without raising a pinky finger to moderate the perpetrator of such despicable language. How many more profanity laced asterisks are in our future? Where does such pathetic vocabulary go next?

I, on the other hand, am very concerned about this sister. You see, it's not enough for her to simply sweep it under the proverbial rug. Nor will it be helpful that she holds on to the experience by reliving it here over and over. That is not progression and that will never reach closure. You have any experience in dealing with this sort of thing in any religious or secular settings besides this forum? No? I have.

I have no reason to doubt her personal experience and I am also for taking the appropriate action including "sicking" the law as needed... for if there is any sicking to be done that is perhaps where it should come from. She made a general statement based on a personal experience. Was it an elder or just a local active leading brother? Was it elders that advised to inaction or her parents? Was she a minor? Do you know? That matters. If so, how about you step up and agree to do the right thing by her and not use her for bashing others as is the SOP in this forum. How about that? Frankly, this forum is ill-equipped to handle this or is that not apparent? The most that can be done by any of us is to advise to facilitate her into an environment where she can get real help... and justice.

Or is it just an easier path to use this sister's personal experience to bash and generalize about all the Lords' brothers in the group you dislike? Are there incidents? I'm sure there are. Is it "rampant".... we'll see.

You don't like an honest conversation like that, well, I cannot help that, UntoHim. It's your forum and you get to exclude any thoughts you disagree with... maybe that sounds familiar to you? My observation is that this forum is the least tolerant of any internet group I have ever been a part of. Just don't take advantage of this sister because she is saying want you want to hear. It's a sensitive subject but that is not an excuse to hide behind. At least, I will step up on her behalf.

Drake

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Drake

You don't like an honest conversation like that, well, I cannot help that, UntoHim.

Oh, that's rich! Like you would know ANYTHING about honest conversation.

It just doesn't end, folks. It just doesn't end.

[JLBW]

Sorry Drake I had to work all day and don't have much time for this forum. Your inquisition is odd and disappointing. But I'll entertain you for the purpose of stopping this madness. I was an adult and my parents are not in the LC. They have nothing to do with this sexual misconduct.
The "brother" was an elder and I was told to keep quiet by the other elders who happen to be involved with DCP and also happened to fellowship about this with the blended brothers all the way at the top in Anaheim. No one encouraged me to do anything about this to obtain retribution from my attacker. I've spent thousands on mental health counseling. They only cared that I not damage the family of the attacker by making his sin and crime known.
Happy now? So how do you propose to go around the BBs? Are you willing to pay for my legal fees to bring a coal law suit? Do you know that this man still meets and is inappropriate with other sisters? He's only one of many that I know of. States that I have information about include Washington, Idaho, Texas, California,and Florida.....but that's only what I know about. How do we stop this damage? I'm all ears.....

[Drake]

Originally Posted by JLBW

Sorry Drake I had to work all day and don't have much time for this forum. Your inquisition is odd and disappointing. But I'll entertain you for the purpose of stopping this madness. I was an adult and my parents are not in the LC. They have nothing to do with this sexual misconduct.
The "brother" was an elder and I was told to keep quiet by the other elders who happen to be involved with DCP and also happened to fellowship about this with the blended brothers all the way at the top in Anaheim. No one encouraged me to do anything about this to obtain retribution from my attacker. I've spent thousands on mental health counseling. They only cared that I not damage the family of the attacker by making his sin and crime known.
Happy now? So how do you propose to go around the BBs? Are you willing to pay for my legal fees to bring a coal law suit? Do you know that this man still meets and is inappropriate with other sisters? He's only one of many that I know of. States that I have information about include Washington, Idaho, Texas, California,and Florida.....but that's only what I know about. How do we stop this damage? I'm all ears.....

JLBW,

Thanks for your clarification.

I believe that you should do what you need to do before the Lord to bring closure and sometimes that is justice. God is just and righteous and He doesn't act apart from that. A man, or a brother in the Lord, does not have a free pass to impose his flesh and fleshly desires on another no matter what may be his visible service to the Lord.... and it is not always best to protect the unsuspecting spouse even for her sake. So I disagree, as far as I can know, to keep it quiet. Furthermore, moving the problem often means that someone else has to deal with it.

What to do? Well, first everything must be done before the Lord, you and Him primarily, and others as He leads you. If an offending brother won't hear you, never repented, and you already escalated in the church then you always have a final recourse in the courts. If it has been awhile then you must consult the statute of limitations state by state. This is a good place to start:

https://www.rainn.org/state-state-gu...es-limitations

Just to be clear, I am not a pot stirrer... and always look for the way to settle to everyone's satisfaction before the Lord, but I also believe God established the human government with its courts to execute His judgement on wrong-doers. So, I have no qualms about advising that IF THAT IS WHAT YOU NEED as the victim to gain closure.

Drake

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Drake

Just to be clear, I am not a pot stirrer... and always look for the way to settle to everyone's satisfaction before the Lord, but I also believe God established the human government with its courts to execute His judgement on wrong-doers. So, I have no qualms about advising that IF THAT IS WHAT YOU NEED as the victim to gain closure.

God also established the Church government. And as I said before, the only reference the Lord Jesus made to the practical church was in establishing it as a place where little people can go to get JUSTICE for being wronged (Matt 18:15-17).

But do you think any of these abused sisters will get any satisfaction from the LR on that? You might as well think you'll see Drake dancing and quacking in a duck suit on America's Got Talent.

[JLBW]

Originally Posted by Igzy

God also established the Church government. And as I said before, the only reference the Lord Jesus made to the practical church was in establishing it as a place where little people can go to get JUSTICE for being wronged (Matt 18:15-17).

But do you think any of these abused sisters will get any satisfaction from the LR on that? You might as well think you'll see Drake dancing and quacking in a duck suit on America's Got Talent.

There will be no resolution in a LC overseen by the BBs. I have chosen to move on and find a place to meet with other believers that do not cover up sin.
If Drake would like to fund a civil law suit I'd be happy to let him fund it. Or I'd be happy if he facilitated a payment to reimburse my therapy, but my guess is his offer to help is limited to the useless post he made in reply to his ??s
My healing is between me and the Lord and my spouse. I posted on here only to refute the idea that sexual sin is a thing of the past. Many sisters don't want to be involved in stupid dialogues online. I've only recently gotten the strength to speak about my trauma.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by JLBW

There will be no resolution in a LC overseen by the BBs. I have chosen to move on and find a place to meet with other believers that do not cover up sin.

JLBW, what you have concluded here about the BB's is altogether correct, and I rejoice that you have decided to follow our Lord and Savior rather than to give up your faith. Your decisions bring shame to our enemy, and great glory to God. May the Lord bless you and keep you in His loving embrace.

I say this because LSM and the LC movement have left a long trail of victims in their wake. Rotten leaders have always been enabled by ones like Drake, who look the other way, bury their heads in the sand, and attack the whistle blower, all behind the guise of "righteousness." This is exactly what the Blendeds did for the Lee family, thus guaranteeing their own rise to power, and there's no reason to believe they will ever change.

What other ministry on earth maintains its own seasoned legal staff like DCP to protect itself from criminal and civil liability?

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Igzy

God also established the Church government. And as I said before, the only reference the Lord Jesus made to the practical church was in establishing it as a place where little people can go to get JUSTICE for being wronged (Matt 18:15-17).

But do you think any of these abused sisters will get any satisfaction from the LR on that? You might as well think you'll see Drake dancing and quacking in a duck suit on America's Got Talent.

Yes on Matthew 18.

But no on your concept about what constitutes church government. The “LR” is not church government. In this case the church government included the offending elder and the other local elders that advised the sister to remain quiet. At least, that is what I heard. Apparently she complied with the advice for the interest of the unknowing spouse. Yet, it is understandable in retrospect that would not bring closure. So the last step of v17 applies here and becomes relevant.... that is, no resolution in the church therefore the offending brother should be treated like a Gentile. It’s not only a civil matter, it’s a criminal matter too.

Like I said before, this sister has every right to exercise her rights as a citizen, seek justice, and obtain proper closure. Any action must be in the Holy Spirit of course... and with those whom she trusts.

Drake

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Drake

Yes on Matthew 18.

But no on your concept about what constitutes church government. The “LR” is not church government. In this case the church government included the offending elder and the other local elders that advised the sister to remain quiet. At least, that is what I heard. Apparently she complied with the advice for the interest of the unknowing spouse. Yet, it is understandable in retrospect that would not bring closure. So the last step of v17 applies here and becomes relevant.... that is, no resolution in the church therefore the offending brother should be treated like a Gentile. It’s not only a civil matter, it’s a criminal matter too.

Like I said before, this sister has every right to exercise her rights as a citizen, seek justice, and obtain proper closure. Any action must be in the Holy Spirit of course... and with those whom she trusts.

Drake

You are quibbling about unimportant details, as usual.

And if you are such a big shot in the LR, why don't you get your conscience in gear on this obvious trail of evidence and CLEAN UP YOUR OWN BACKYARD? If you love the LR so much you ought to be outraged and angry. Yet, as usual, nothing seems to ruffle your feathers, except when your pride gets hurt.

"If anyone causes one of these little ones--those who believe in me--to stumble, it would be better for them if a large millstone were hung around their neck and they were thrown into the sea." Mark 9:42

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Drake

Yes on Matthew 18.

But no on your concept about what constitutes church government. The “LR” is not church government. In this case the church government included the offending elder and the other local elders that advised the sister to remain quiet. At least, that is what I heard. Apparently she complied with the advice for the interest of the unknowing spouse. Yet, it is understandable in retrospect that would not bring closure. So the last step of v17 applies here and becomes relevant.... that is, no resolution in the church therefore the offending brother should be treated like a Gentile. It’s not only a civil matter, it’s a criminal matter too.

Like I said before, this sister has every right to exercise her rights as a citizen, seek justice, and obtain proper closure. Any action must be in the Holy Spirit of course... and with those whom she trusts.

Drake

Isn't it interesting that LC action (really inaction, or wrongful action) was self-servingly designed to "protect" the interest of the unknowing spouse. How deceitful! If every case was handled in this way, no criminal would ever be held accountable. There is always someone who needs "protecting." The Apostle Paul, however, demanded that "those who sin should be rebuked before all, that all be in fear." (I Tim. 5.20) Obviously this would include the family of the abusing, molesting elder. I am also a firm believer that those who sin in this way may be restored after repentance to communion as a brother, (e.g. II Cor. 2.6-7) but never be restored to church or ministry office.

For decades Witness Lee protected his boys from culpability. WL was merely protecting himself and his ministry while the list of victims grew. WL would relocate some of these victims to other churches, claiming that he would "handle his sons" personally. Yet matters only grew worse.

The so-called and much-discussed "storms" or quarantines of the late 80's and the late 90's in Anaheim were simply WL coverups for his boys. The facts of history have proven this conclusively. Instead of WL rebuking his sons before all, he attacked the accusers, the whistle blowers, by accusing them of a vast global conspiracy, branding them as rebellious lepers, worthy of expulsion, and smearing their reputations before all.

WL and the Blendeds should have been imprisoned for libel and slander based on what they did to other men of God for speaking their conscience to protect God's children. What they did was despicable. It was criminal. All to protect known degenerates like Lee's own sons. (Read what happened to Eli, whose sons were similar. I Samuel 2.12-17, 22-25, 27-34, 4.12-18)

Yet ones like Drake, who claims to stand up in defense of these victims, remains absolutely silent as to the actions of both Witness Lee and the Blendeds during those pathetic times. The level of dishonesty he displays is appalling. Today's Blendeds (BP, MC, RG, MC, etc.) scammed a hoax on the LC's, which was perpetuated for decades.