Can't think of a title

[IDon'tKnow]

Hello
I'm not certain whether I'm likely to use this blog or what for but regardless. I recently started to consider these verses

Mark 3:23-27. ²³ So He called them to Himself and said to them in parables: “How can Satan cast out Satan? ²⁴ If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. ²⁵ And if a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand. ²⁶ And if Satan has risen up against himself, and is divided, he cannot stand, but has an end. ²⁷ No one can enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man. And then he will plunder his house

NKJV

What struck me was the fact that Satan and his kingdom is one. My natural concept from being in the LC is that when Satan rebelled against God thus entering into division thus he should have divided and divided and divided, Yet here we are are now at least 5000 years after Satan's initial rebellion (could be billions of years for all I know), and he and his rebellion is still one. I think that this should show us that oneness isn't necessarily something of God, Satan and his kingdom also have there own oneness, This is almost certainly a different sort of oneness to God's but it is a oneness all the same.
Further in this vane is

Genesis 11:4-7 ⁴ And they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, and a tower whose top is in the heavens; let us make a name for ourselves, lest we be scattered abroad over the face of the whole earth.”
⁵ But the LORD came down to see the city and the tower which the sons of men had built. ⁶ And the LORD said, “Indeed the people are one and they all have one language, and this is what they begin to do; now nothing that they propose to do will be withheld from them. ⁷ Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech.”

NKJV

here we notice that all the people in there rebellion against God were one to build a great structure, and this great structure was even to be the source of there oneness, but the Lord came in to divide them.
Lastly I looked at the case of Jeroboam's dividing to take ten of the twelve tribes of Israel. This is of particular interest to me because recently this was used as an example for why it is never okay to divide, It's leading to the golden calves, and the different places of worship, and whatnot. This always bothered me at the time because this interpretation always ignored the very important fact that whatever else happened Jeroboam had been made king of those ten tribes by God and it was His will that he divide

1 King 11:29-33 ²⁹ Now it happened at that time, when Jeroboam went out of Jerusalem, that the prophet Ahijah the Shilonite met him on the way; and he had clothed himself with a new garment, and the two were alone in the field. ³⁰ Then Ahijah took hold of the new garment that was on him, and tore it into twelve pieces. ³¹ And he said to Jeroboam, “Take for yourself ten pieces, for thus says the LORD, the God of Israel: ‘Behold, I will tear the kingdom out of the hand of Solomon and will give ten tribes to you ³² (but he shall have one tribe for the sake of My servant David, and for the sake of Jerusalem, the city which I have chosen out of all the tribes of Israel), ³³ because they have^{a]" class="footnote">[a]} forsaken Me, and worshiped Ashtoreth the goddess of the Sidonians, Chemosh the god of the Moabites, and Milcom the god of the people of Ammon, and have not walked in My ways to do what is right in My eyes and keep My statutes and My judgments, as did his father David, 12:22-24 ²² But the word of God came to Shemaiah the man of God, saying, ²³ “Speak to Rehoboam the son of Solomon, king of Judah, to all the house of Judah and Benjamin, and to the rest of the people, saying, ²⁴ ‘Thus says the LORD: “You shall not go up nor fight against your brethren the children of Israel. Let every man return to his house, for this thing is from Me.”’” Therefore they obeyed the word of the LORD, and turned back, according to the word of the LORD.

NKJV

. Jeroboam's sin wasn't division, it was Idolatry. Although it can be noted that the cause of his idolatry was that he feared that if the people remained in fellowship with the rest of God's people they would return to Rehoboam

1 Kings 12:26-27. ²⁶ And Jeroboam said in his heart, “Now the kingdom may return to the house of David: ²⁷ If these people go up to offer sacrifices in the house of the LORD at Jerusalem, then the heart of this people will turn back to their lord, Rehoboam king of Judah, and they will kill me and go back to Rehoboam king of Judah.”

NKJV

Keeping in mind that it was God's will originally that Jeroboam divide from Rehoboam and he was promised that his kingdom would be secured as long as he obeyed His commandments, I think this should be more naturally interpreted that the sin here was not the division itself but the cutting off of fellowship with those whom were no longer under the same king.
The point of this is that when we see oneness we should not automatically assume that it is of God. Furthermore when we see division we should not automatically assume that it is of Satan. We need to realise that the important thing is not the oneness itself but who we are one with.

[aron]

Originally Posted by IDon'tKnow

I recently started to consider these verses What struck me was the fact that Satan and his kingdom is one. My natural concept from being in the LC is that when Satan rebelled against God thus entering into division thus he should have divided and divided and divided, Yet here we are are now at least 5000 years after Satan's initial rebellion (could be billions of years for all I know), and he and his rebellion is still one. I think that this should show us that oneness isn't necessarily something of God, Satan and his kingdom also have their own oneness, This is almost certainly a different sort of oneness to God's but it is a oneness all the same..

I respectfully disagree. God is one, but Satan is "anti-one", or "pro-scattering". Satan is "division" and "confusion". When Jesus said, "A house divided cannot stand", He was foretelling the downfall of Satan's house, because it is in fact divided. Satan's house cannot stand before God. Satan's house, his kingdom, is unable to maintain coherence, because at its heart is turmoil and chaos and bedlam. There is no peace there.

So I read Jesus' statement differently. You say it is proof that Satan's house is one; I say it points to the fall of the house in question.

Originally Posted by IDon'tKnow

... here we notice that all the people in there rebellion against God were one to build a great structure, and this great structure was even to be the source of there oneness, but the Lord came in to divide them...

In Babel they were united for a time, but eventually this unity was sundered. Note that this fall of commonality came not from without, but from within. God sowed confusion into their speech, so that they could not understand each other.

Any Satanic "oneness", or commonality of purpose, is only temporary, only an illusion, and is eventually broken. I have mentioned this before, but look at the oneness in Revelation 13. No one is able to buy or sell anything unless they have the mark of the name of the beast (v.17). Anyone who doesn't worship the image of the beast is killed (v.15). This is an enforced oneness, externally derived by threats. "Do as I say or I will crush you."

Human governments run by this kind of oneness. Remember the peace treaty of the antichrist with Israel? It is based on a piece of paper, which is useless, because there is no peace in his heart. So the signed parchement of "oneness" is a sham, and eventually it is exposed. The antichrist breaks the treaty after 3 1/2 years and invades Israel. (Daniel 9:27, see also Revelation 13:5). So it is with all externally derived "treaties" among men. There is no peace within, so they have to make speeches and sign documents, all of which are shown eventually to be worthless. The only peace is the peace within, the oneness with God found by acknowledging Jesus Christ as Lord. I recognize no other peace, nor oneness.

Originally Posted by IDon'tKnow

... Lastly I looked at the case of Jeroboam's dividing to take ten of the twelve tribes of Israel. This is of particular interest to me because recently this was used as an example for why it is never okay to divide, It's leading to the golden calves, and the different places of worship, and whatnot. The point of this is that when we see oneness we should not automatically assume that it is of God. Furthermore when we see division we should not automatically assume that it is of Satan. We need to realise that the important thing is not the oneness itself but who we are one with.

When Jesus spoke to the demon-posessed man in the Gadarenes, he said, "Who are you?" The man answered "Legion, for we are many". The many spirits within this man were only temporarily united for the purpose of confounding God's expression in humankind. But there was no intrinsic oneness there. It was "each demon for himself"...when Jesus cast them out into the hogs the whole herd rushed down into the water and perished. You can see the turmoil when the pigs got infected. "Every pig for himself", and they all were destroyed.

The example of Jeroboam I am not too familiar with, and thus am not able to comment either way. But thank you for raising it; I will try to become more familiar with the significance of this story.

In sum, I would hold that Satan's only "oneness" is that of blind and stubborn opposition to the kingdom of God. But beyond that there is only confusion, and destruction. There is no oneness, no unity there.

[IDon'tKnow]

Originally Posted by aron

I respectfully disagree. God is one, but Satan is "anti-one", or "pro-scattering". Satan is "division" and "confusion". When Jesus said, "A house divided cannot stand", He was foretelling the downfall of Satan's house, because it is in fact divided. Satan's house cannot stand before God. Satan's house, his kingdom, is unable to maintain coherence, because at its heart is turmoil and chaos and bedlam. There is no peace there.

So I read Jesus' statement differently. You say it is proof that Satan's house is one; I say it points to the fall of the house in question.

I would disagree on this point simply based upon context. The context of these verses is Jesus is explaining why it is ridiculous to state that he cast out the demons by the power of Beelzebub. If he was casting out the demons by Satan that would imply that there were factions in Satan's kingdom working against one another. If this weren't an aspect of Satan's kingdom it would be deceitful for the Lord to use it to defend Himself.

Furthermore it could be pointed out that the Bible refers to the enemy, not a group of competing enemies. This make sense because Satan's desire in rebelling against God wasn't to make everyone divide, It was to rule in God's place. Therefore he should have no problem with oneness as long as it is one with him.

In Babel they were united for a time, but eventually this unity was sundered. Note that this fall of commonality came not from without, but from within. God sowed confusion into their speech, so that they could not understand each other.

Any Satanic "oneness", or commonality of purpose, is only temporary, only an illusion, and is eventually broken. I have mentioned this before, but look at the oneness in Revelation 13. No one is able to buy or sell anything unless they have the mark of the name of the beast (v.17). Anyone who doesn't worship the image of the beast is killed (v.15). This is an enforced oneness, externally derived by threats. "Do as I say or I will crush you."

Human governments run by this kind of oneness. Remember the peace treaty of the antichrist with Israel? It is based on a piece of paper, which is useless, because there is no peace in his heart. So the signed parchement of "oneness" is a sham, and eventually it is exposed. The antichrist breaks the treaty after 3 1/2 years and invades Israel. (Daniel 9:27, see also Revelation 13:5). So it is with all externally derived "treaties" among men. There is no peace within, so they have to make speeches and sign documents, all of which are shown eventually to be worthless. The only peace is the peace within, the oneness with God found by acknowledging Jesus Christ as Lord. I recognize no other peace, nor oneness.

I have no objection to this statement. I didn't mean to imply that Satan's oneness was the same in nature as God's oneness. Just that it was a form of oneness. There is a kind of one accord there. There is nothing within the bible (to my knowledge) which suggests that there are groups of demons/fallen angels which seriously questioned Satan as the one fallen angel for the kingdom of darknesses move on the Earth. It suggests that as long as their is such a kingdom on the earth that Satan will be it's commander in chief. Whether this is through intimidation or what have you I don't know, It does seem to be a fact however.

When Jesus spoke to the demon-posessed man in the Gadarenes, he said, "Who are you?" The man answered "Legion, for we are many". The many spirits within this man were only temporarily united for the purpose of confounding God's expression in humankind. But there was no intrinsic oneness there. It was "each demon for himself"...when Jesus cast them out into the hogs the whole herd rushed down into the water and perished. You can see the turmoil when the pigs got infected. "Every pig for himself", and they all were destroyed.

The example of Jeroboam I am not too familiar with, and thus am not able to comment either way. But thank you for raising it; I will try to become more familiar with the significance of this story.

In sum, I would hold that Satan's only "oneness" is that of blind and stubborn opposition to the kingdom of God. But beyond that there is only confusion, and destruction. There is no oneness, no unity there.

I would say that you are right in that, no, there probably is nothing that we would call "true oneness" in Satan's kingdom. But that said there does seem to be a kind of oneness there which we might mistake for "true oneness" if we are not careful. If we had the thought that we had to be one above all else.

To give you context I was thinking about this in context of Witness Lee statements about the rebel groups dividing and dividing again. I asked myself was this the case with the original rebel group (Satan). At the moment it seems not. In addition I can't help but wonder if the cause of further division after rebelling is simply because they were so used to using Witness Lee as the glue to hold them together.

[IDon'tKnow]

On a different but related thought, while this might have just been faulty wording on Lee's part but to suggest that someone is the commander in chief is to imply that that person is king. I believe that is what the in chief part means (hence why the president of the united states is the Commander in Chief of the US). Hence whether or not your considering the army or kingdom, or whatever aspect you like their is still only the one commander in chief and He is the One with the Kingship, Christ. After all who do you see ride at the front of the bridal army in revelation.

[IDon'tKnow]

Further on the thought of Jeroboam. While it is true that after Jeroboam divided Judah that he fell into idolatry. He definitely was commissioned by God to divide from Judah and become King of Israel, this was because of Solomon's disobedience,

³¹And he said to Jeroboam, Take thee ten pieces: for thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel, Behold, I will rend the kingdom out of the hand of Solomon, and will give ten tribes to thee:
³²(But he shall have one tribe for my servant David's sake, and for Jerusalem's sake, the city which I have chosen out of all the tribes of Israel
³³Because that they have forsaken me, and have worshipped Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, Chemosh the god of the Moabites, and Milcom the god of the children of Ammon, and have not walked in my ways, to do that which is right in mine eyes, and to keep my statutes and my judgments, as did David his father.

1 Kings 11 NKJV

He was even given a blessing for his kingship.

³⁷And I will take thee, and thou shalt reign according to all that thy soul desireth, and shalt be king over Israel.
³⁸And it shall be, if thou wilt hearken unto all that I command thee, and wilt walk in my ways, and do that is right in my sight, to keep my statutes and my commandments, as David my servant did; that I will be with thee, and build thee a sure house, as I built for David, and will give Israel unto thee.

1 Kings 11 NKJV

We however note here that the prerequisite for Jeroboam's blessing and reason for the Kingdom being taken away from Solomon are similar. obedience, and keeping His statutes. This suggests to me that this should be the basis of our oneness. I believe that it is based upon this we are one with God.

Furthermore it could be pointed out that with the actions of Jeroboam, setting up his competing worship sites, Idols, and Feasts. He could have spun it to mean that he was trying to keep the oneness of the nation of Israel. After all in actual fact what he really wanted was to keep them in a special oneness with him, because he thought this would keep him in power, Later generations even attempted to build a wall between Israel and there fellow Hebrews in Judah (Sound familiar). Whereas he was already promised by God if you remain one with me I will establish your house. This suggests to me that when we try and enforce oneness we automatically fall into something low, When we just follow the Lord, oneness should simply come.