The Unique Move of God

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Koinonia

We are not the church in London because we call ourselves "the church in London." We are the church in London because we are. The church in London is all the believers in London. How absurd to recognize this reality but then say, "Well, yes, that's true, but actually the church in London is this minuscule group of people who use the name 'church in London.'" Not even WL taught that.

We call ourselves the church in London because we are the church in London.

I don't really understand your point that we cannot call ourselves the church in London just because everyone else is the church in London as well. Then we end up with a situation where no one calls themselves the "church in London", and then the church does not exist practically.

Originally Posted by Koinonia

Because "the church in London" is not a group. It's like saying "How do I know there's such a thing as the church?" Well, the church is all around you. Yet, it seems like everything with you comes down to words. Do you actually think that the words "the church in" convey spiritual reality?

"the church is all around you" indicates that you hold to an idea of a church which does not actually exist practically.

On a Sunday, how does one know where to attend a church which is "all around me"?

If such is the case, how can we apply the instructions of the bible to "tell it to the church" . Matt 18:17. There has to be some authority structure, which we know at the time was a plurality of elders appointed by the apostles.

It does not mean we can just tell our Christian friend or neighbor about our problem and we are satisfying Matt 18:17. There must be an entity in our city called "the church" which exists in practicality.

I think denominations such as the Roman Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican all recognized the need of a practical church administration in the city representing all believers in a city.

Originally Posted by Koinonia

What is your source for this? That 10 meetings in London could all be meeting practically as the church in London? Is this something that Witness Lee made up?

Why can't 10 meetings all be meeting practically as the church in London?

Originally Posted by Koinonia

No. According to Matthew 18:20--wherever two or three are gathered in the Lord's name, He is in the midst. According to Witness Lee, "two or three" is not a local church. So, "the life of Christ and Christ Himself in our midst" cannot be the definition of "the genuine church life." According to you, it's based on what the group calls itself.

Nice try but it's not saying that a church is only 2 or 3 people.

This verse is about taking 2 or 3 believers with you ,from the church, for the purpose of resolving some matter.

Here is the context:

Matt 18:15 If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you.

Here is when you need two or three:

16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’[c]


If the two or three don't make a difference, then you tell it to the church:

17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Logically, "the church" mentioned in verse 17 must be a larger entity than just two or three.

So it's talking about 2 or 3 believers coming together to pray about binding and loosing:

Matthew 18:19 Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven.

Matt 18:18

Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.


If a church was only 2 or 3, it does not even satisfy the requirements of a 5 fold ministry, at least one teacher, one prophet, one evangelist, one pastor, one apostle.

If a church has 2 or 3 elders only, where is the rest of the church?

Originally Posted by Koinonia

Also, I would like to ask you again: Is it possible to be a part of the practicality of the local church without being associated with Living Stream Ministry and Witness Lee?

It depends, who started the local church in the city?