Book by Former LC Elder Herman Massey

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Igzy

Despite The Grinch (aka Evangelical) and his narrow-minded legalism, this is a wonderful book. I recommend it.

I must also add that Herman's progress since our days long ago is strikingly evident. So much for the Benson Phillip's nonsense that growth stops when you leave "the Recovery."

Take heart, those of you who have left the LSM! Take you eyes off your doubt and worry and, as Herman advises, focus them on the super-abounding grace of God, the wave after wave of grace upon grace that pours over each of us with the surety and rhythm of waves on a beach.

Any idea when Massey left the LCM?

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Any idea when Massey left the LCM?

Well, he migrated to OKC in the mid-eighties. I think it was between 85-95, but I don't know for sure.

[Nell]

Igzy,

I haven't read the book, but I'm curious about how Herman handles the "Sloppy Grace, Gooey Grace, Sloppy Agape, Greasy Grace, etc." side of the topic? Many authors fail to discuss the accountability side of grace so I'm interested to hear his views...when and if you get that far into the book.

As Joyce Meyer says: Grace is not an excuse to live a sloppy life and think we're going to get by with it. Grace forgives us, but it also gives us the power to overcome.

Nell

[Cal]

I saw no evidence of cheap grace accolades. But why don't you just buy the book and read it? Aren't you at least curious about what ol' Herman has to say?

[Evangelical]

Enjoy those waves of sugary sweet grace, oh so sweet!

The author of this book's idea of grace like a river most likely comes from Lee. One would probably do just as well reading Lee's book " Abiding in the Lord to Enjoy His Life, by Witness Lee from which this book's ideas come.

A person reading the Bible separately from Lee would most likely not arrive at the idea of grace like a river by themselves. The Bible says peace flows like a river, not grace:
Isaiah 66:12 For this is what the LORD says: "I will extend peace to her like a river, and the wealth of nations like a flooding stream; you will nurse and be carried on her arm and dandled on her knees.

Isaiah 48:18 "If only you had paid attention to My commandments! Then your well-being would have been like a river, And your righteousness like the waves of the sea.

There is a well known song "It Is Well with My Soul" in which one verse says "when peace like a river". When I was in denominations I was mostly familiar with peace being like a river, not grace. This idea of grace like a river I got from Lee.

Lee most likely takes the idea of grace like a river from Rev 22:1, which mentions a river flowing from God's throne, and Heb 4:16 which calls the throne a throne of grace. Lee talks about the grace of God like a river flowing to us in his book Abiding in the Lord to Enjoy His Life, by Witness Lee.

The idea of grace flowing like a river is also found in Hymn #770 and Hymn #32 which lyrics were authored by Witness Lee.

So I hope the author appropriately acknowledges the source of his inspiration in his book, and properly references Lee's book or hymns where appropriate.

When Igzy says "I must also add that Herman's progress since our days long ago is strikingly evident. So much for the Benson Phillip's nonsense that growth stops when you leave "the Recovery."", I can't help but think that this book relaying the author's experiences of "grace like a river" could be viewed as evidence of an LSM success story, or a product of Lee's ministry.

[Ohio]

Evangelical, it sure seems hard for you to disguise all your bitterness behind a few lofty doctrines of grace.

And why don't you talk to some of the victims of Benson Phillip's rich supply of "grace" after he instructed his legal department to file all those lawsuits against other Christians.

It's quite interesting how you can accuse Massey of supposed plagiarism. We have been saying that all along about Lee. He stole profusely from "degraded Christianity" every chance he got.

And, btw, for all of those victims of LSM -- "sugary sweet grace" was never enough. They needed the real thing to endure all of LSM's abuses.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Evangelical, it sure seems hard for you to disguise all your bitterness behind a few lofty doctrines of grace.

And why don't you talk to some of the victims of Benson Phillip's rich supply of "grace" after he instructed his legal department to file all those lawsuits against other Christians.

It's quite interesting how you can accuse Massey of supposed plagiarism. We have been saying that all along about Lee. He stole profusely from "degraded Christianity" every chance he got.

And, btw, for all of those victims of LSM -- "sugary sweet grace" was never enough. They needed the real thing to endure all of LSM's abuses.

I never accused anyone. All I am saying is that this book is clearly heavily influenced by Lee's ministry. Since you have been apart from the Recovery for so long you may not have recognized it, but I realized it the moment I read the title. I am bemused that people here would enjoy such a book so much, given the propensity to reject Lee's ministry. Yet this book is essentially Lee's ministry in another form. I am not aware of any bible preacher who focused on the idea of rivers of anything, as much as Lee. So, this book reads to me more like a success story of Lee's ministry than anything else.

If you can find where Lee "stole" the idea of "grace like a river" from please quote it. But I think we all know where Mr Massey got the idea from. Or the movement he was part of for so long has affected him so much, that he has never left Lee's ministry of flowing rivers of life and grace. For this reason I would recommend Lee's book Abiding in the Lord to Enjoy His Life which might be a good accompaniment to the book by Mr Massey.

Other books on the subject of God's grace, written by Protestant evangelicals, mostly focus on the objective and judicial aspects of that grace. Only Lee & those affected by his ministry could write at length about the subjective aspects of rivers of grace.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Enjoy those waves of sugary sweet grace, oh so sweet! The author of this book's idea of grace like a river most likely comes from Lee. One would probably do just as well reading Lee's book " Abiding in the Lord to Enjoy His Life, by Witness Lee from which this book's ideas come.

Years ago in Columbus, I received much from the ministry of Phil Comfort. He was known as a "pure wordist," going back to the scripture for all his inspiration and teaching. After he left the LCM, he wrote a book on the Gospel of John. A & C reviewed the book, and "affirmed" nothing about it, basically claiming that he stole his riches from Lee.

Nothing could be further from the truth, but such is the hypocritical bitterness that always emanates from LSM lackeys. Their guy does it, and it's called "standing on the shoulders." Anyone else who leaves the LCM and writes a book is considered a thief. Or worse.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Years ago in Columbus, I received much from the ministry of Phil Comfort. He was known as a "pure wordist," going back to the scripture for all his inspiration and teaching. After he left the LCM, he wrote a book on the Gospel of John. A & C reviewed the book, and "affirmed" nothing about it, basically claiming that he stole his riches from Lee.

Nothing could be further from the truth, but such is the hypocritical bitterness that always emanates from LSM lackeys. Their guy does it, and it's called "standing on the shoulders." Anyone else who leaves the LCM and writes a book is considered a thief. Or worse.

Or as Paul said in 1 Cor. 4
7 For who regards you as superior? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as if you had not received it?

Nothing truly of God originates in man, including whatever Lee may have received. We are known by our fruit.
Nell

[Indiana]

Originally Posted by Igzy

I saw no evidence of cheap grace accolades. But why don't you just buy the book and read it? Aren't you at least curious about what ol' Herman has to say?

Igzy's in the grace, Herman's in the grace; let's stand in the grace and boast in hope of the glory of God.

_for "in this grace we stand..."

Praise the Lord! JJ, Don Hose Jr, CountmeWorthy and many others.


"By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God." (Rom. 5:2)

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Any idea when Massey left the LCM?

Old thread, but here's a little updated info on Herman. He was with our Scottsdale group up until about 10 years ago, when he and Kathleen moved back to OK. I last saw him maybe 3-4 years ago when he came for a visit and to talk about the book's subject. This bro is full of the experience of grace! I miss Herman. A few of the saints here are in somewhat regular contact with Herman & Kathleen I think.