The LCS Factor

[Matt Anderson]

Originally Posted by Ohio

From what you have said here, then just about every church in the N.T. was idolatrous, every congregation in America, every congregation in the world, past and present, etc. Matt's congregation is idolatrous too, since they have elders, which could be construed by some as an "authority based hierarchy."

You're right Ohio. The group I am in is no exclusion. Very recently they have exercised some abuse against a woman in the congregation that some don't like. After the woman and her husband spent an amount of time trying to address the matter, the door was open for others to speak up. In a respectful manner, I have spent time with one of the elders helping him to realize that they violated a few key things: exercising discipline over a wife without properly involving the husband, and exercising discipline even after clear repentance had been made. This elder has repented to them for his part and has addressed the other elders on this matter. The elders are still struggling with this issue while this woman continues to suffer. This elder who I addressed is unique. He has a willingness to be wrong even as an elder. He only considers himself to be an "older brother" as an elder and believes it is necessary to "get out of God's way" when God is interacting with one of His children. He makes mistakes and doesn't even like being in the position of elder. It took them a long time to convince him to serve as an elder. He was "elected" by the congregation. Everyone had a part in agreeing that he was a good choice for the role.

He recognizes the inherent problem with being in this position of "authority" and how it causes you to be in a bad situation in dealing with other brothers and sisters in Christ.

The situation I am in is unique in that I can speak up to some of the elders without fear of retribution. In many situations, this would not be the case. I think there might be one of the elders that might exercise some retribution, but not with intent. He would do it out of a passive/aggressive flaw in his character.

Soon, I may have to be part of addressing all of the elders as a witness to what has happened. It's not fun, but I have already expressed my willingness to participate as a witness to help establish the matter properly before the Lord. I'll lose some standing in the minds of at least one or two of the elders and will receive accusations in the process, but if the truth of the matter is established then the Enemy will not be able to lay down roots.

In summary, your argument on this point is valid and the group I am in can easily progress into an idolatrous situation if the "authority" that exists is respected even in the face of sin. Sin has no standing in the Lord's mind even if it is done by some "authority". It is sin. A group of believers who allow sin to remain that God brings to the surface which needs to be addressed because of "eldership" or "authority" is one that can easily move into an idolatrous condition. This is how prevalent and pervasive idolatry was in Israel. It was everywhere. This is not my perspective, but God's.

Only one king in all of Israel and Judah ever dealt with all the idolatry. Only about 5 ever dealt with parts of the idolatry. I don't think idolatry existed in David's time.

Matt

P.S. I remembered the following little paper I previously wrote about "God's Perspective" (Click Here) and linked to the Berean's. Here it is again. You'll recognize the "extremeness" in it as you look at it!

P.S.S. For those who've gotten on my case for being hard-headed. Trust me, you haven't seen even 20% of it. Ask TJ, she took a 110% and survived, but just bearly. I'm no one's enemy here and no one is mine. I am holding an extreme position on an important issue. You can call me anything and accuse me of anything as a result. I'll live.

[Paul Cox]

Originally Posted by Matt

P.S.S. For those who've gotten on my case for being hard-headed. Trust me, you haven't seen even 20% of it. Ask TJ, she took a 110% and survived, but just bearly. I'm no one's enemy here and no one is mine. I am holding an extreme position on an important issue. You can call me anything and accuse me of anything as a result. I'll live.

Not good; not good at all. Witness Lee was like that.

But thanks for sharing with us about the elder brother who is willing to be wrong. Now that's Christ.

Roger

[John]

Originally Posted by Roger

Not good; not good at all. Witness Lee was like that.

But thanks for sharing with us about the elder brother who is willing to be wrong. Now that's Christ.

Roger

As I scanned your last five posts, to me, they basically are a personal attack against Matt. Now you try what many here might consider to be the ultimate insult.

What you quoted in your post #666 as an intended attack indicates that you are grasping at straws in an attempt to discredit Matt. You have written that you want to discuss abuse, but you don't.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Roger

Not good; not good at all. Witness Lee was like that. ...Roger

Woah! Roger! That was mean.

Who isn't "like that"?

Matt confessed his fault and you use it against him? Was Witness Lee "like that" too?

Nell

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by John

As I scanned your last five posts, to me, they basically are a personal attack against Matt. Now you try what many here might consider to be the ultimate insult.

What you quoted in your post #666 as an intended attack indicates that you are grasping at straws in an attempt to discredit Matt. You have written that you want to discuss abuse, but you don't.

Brother John, I don't see Roger's comment here as a "personal attack," rather a "comparison" out of frustration. Just as WL refused to listen to those around him, Matt's posts on this thread seemed the same to Roger.

While many of us appreciate Matt from all his posts on the other forum, he has caught some of us off guard here, including Roger and myself. The controversy has bewildered many others, and both sides have done too much "discrediting." In fact, that's how it all started, with Matt discrediting the testimony of Hope. Perhaps if Matt had just started a thread about his observations concerning idolatry, and not discredited the testimony of Hope, this whole controversy would never have happened. I felt the line of disrespect was crossed.

This tension does not bring glory to God. The conflict could be summarized as those "who are 'concerned' about the LC's and those who feel the whole system is an idolatrous, abusive cult." This is not too dissimilar from the many LC controversies I saw which pitted those who just "loved the ministry" against those who were "absolute." It just seems when the LC's are concerned, the moderates and the extremists can never get along.

Sorry about the blunt observations here. I have no intention to offend anyone. I have taken my share of "heat" just for attempting to bring moderation to this thread.

[Matt Anderson]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Brother John, I don't see Roger's comment here as a "personal attack," rather a "comparison" out of frustration. Just as WL refused to listen to those around him, Matt's posts on this thread seemed the same to Roger.

To anyone who is posting in defense of me. Please don't. If anyone wants to say things about me whether it be intentional attack or out of frustration, then let them. If they are attacking the substance of what I am saying, feel free to engage, but if it is just pointed at me (for any reason), just let it go. I am. I understand part of why they are upset with what I am saying. I think I would be upset by it too if I were in their shoes. I understand what they are asking. They are asking me to simply let go of one point.

They want me to say that the idolatry in the LC doesn't apply to everyone. Until I back away from that one single point, they probably won't stop objecting.

In the case it is not 100% clear, here is what I have not said:
1. LC members were/are idolators. I have specifically avoided the noun form of the word, because no one who is a Christian is. We are all justified in Christ, but we can commit specific deeds that fall into any category of sin. For these, we are asked to repent and receive the full mercy of God.

Here is what I have said:
1. All LC adherents were brought into idolatry due to the nature of the LC system and this has impacted/affected both 1st (parents) and 2nd generation (children) of those involved in the LC. The effects of the system were/are pervasive.

I've admitted this is an extreme position and that I realize that others don't agree with it. I'll get through what I am saying without too much more delay and then everyone can move on. I've only posted on one thread on this forum and I probably stay with that approach and not bother anyone on other threads.

Matt

[Matt Anderson]

Originally Posted by Ohio

In fact, that's how it all started, with Matt discrediting the testimony of Hope. Perhaps if Matt had just started a thread about his observations concerning idolatry, and not discredited the testimony of Hope, this whole controversy would never have happened. I felt the line of disrespect was crossed.

In fact, you are wrong Ohio. This would have never happened if Hope had not gone after djohnson to personally discredit djohnson. Back up to step 1, rather than starting with step 2. I will not judge Hope's motive in this action, but the deed speaks clearly on it's own. My posts are a counter-move and started the process of me speaking plainly about what I believe in regards to the system of the LC. My response to Hope, did not initiate this process.

I'm not being defensive, just holding your witness to points of fact. Please review this thread in from the beginning to verify my statement. If you cannot find it, I will point it out to you.

Matt

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Matt

In fact, you are wrong Ohio. This would have never happened if Hope had not gone after djohnson to personally discredit djohnson. Back up to step 1, rather than starting with step 2. I will not judge Hope's motive in this action, but the deed speaks clearly on it's own. My posts are a counter-move and started the process of me speaking plainly about what I believe in regards to the system of the LC. My response to Hope, did not initiate this process.

I'm not being defensive, just holding your witness to points of fact. Please review this thread in from the beginning to verify my statement. If you cannot find it, I will point it out to you.

Matt

Brother Matt, I guess we see things differently on this one.

[finallyprettyokay]

Matt wrote: I've only posted on one thread on this forum and I probably stay with that approach and not bother anyone on other threads.

Okay, Matt. Please don't tell me I am just defending you, and I should let it go. I am just saying that the you that wrote that about you was wrong, and I hope you don't listen.

Don't stop. We need you, I know I do.

I could have PMed you this, and almost did, but I wanted to say it front of two witnesses. Or how ever many.

fpo

[finallyprettyokay]

Matt wrote: I believe the truth is more like this. God was pouring out His Spirit in a big way in the US and throughout the world in the 60’s and 70’s. Given Lee’s advanced knowledge of the Word and his claim to a “genealogy” linking him to Watchman Nee, he was able to take control of a system of worship and shape it. Behind him, Satan was subtly working to ensure that this system was one that would actually be a destroyer of God’s faithful. He (the Enemy) did this by exercising particular strength/weaknesses in Lee that had not been fully dealt with by the Lord and were not in full submission to the Lord.

I think that may be core of this thread about spiritual abuses. I have no problem recognizing the system as a destroyer of God's faithful. I don't think anyone thrives there. People get hurt there. Regularly.

What many of us point to as a 'honeymoon' in the LC was in spite of the system, in spite of WL. It probably was because of each other. Because, even then, what was sustaining us was each other. That's how we survived at all. Eventually, for many of us, either that wasn't enough anymore or that relationship with 'each other' was interrupted by something -- maybe something like what happened to ThankfulJane. Whatever the case was, whatever the cause appeared to be, I think it really had to do with us growing up, getting strong enough and eventually saying No More. No more abuse. No more destroying.

Just because the honeymoon may have been good, doesn't mean the marriage worked. It didn't.

fpo

note: highlights in quote are mine, not Matt's.

[Thankful Jane]

Originally Posted by Roger

Originally Posted by Matt
P.S.S. For those who've gotten on my case for being hard-headed. Trust me, you haven't seen even 20% of it. Ask TJ, she took a 110% and survived, but just bearly. I'm no one's enemy here and no one is mine. I am holding an extreme position on an important issue. You can call me anything and accuse me of anything as a result. I'll live.

Not good; not good at all. Witness Lee was like that.
But thanks for sharing with us about the elder brother who is willing to be wrong. Now that's Christ.

Roger

Dear Roger,

I think Matt has slowed down a bit on the topic you don't like. Don't you? I am probably just as guilty of having posted about it, so I wonder why I'm not getting some of the heat from you. Not that I want it!!

Just to be clear, the "it" which Matt was referring to when he said "20% of it" is a reference to what Matt was capable of in the past before God brought him to his knees in a half Nelson with His strong right arm. Matt is not the same angry person he was capable of being before that.

Earlier, you said you didn't know him, so you couldn't really judge. I think that's a safe position. I do know him, as does Nell. The person Matt became after the previously mentioned wrestling match with God is not the same one I had to survive. He is truly a changed person. He is not perfect, but I am here to testify where before he could not be stopped, today he can be.

Having a strong will by nature isn't a bad thing as long as it is submitted to Christ. From what I can see in Matt's life, his is. I am confident if God wants him to stop posting about something, he will.

Why don't we just pray for him instead of continuing to try and put him down?

I don't see anywhere that Matt has been disrespectful, angry, rude, or any such thing. Persistence is not a sin. It could be kin to diligence. He has been persistent (but so have I) to share his point of view. I really don't see the problem.

I thought things had calmed down a bit and we were just having some good discussion about abuse. Your post this morning surprised me.

Thankful Jane

[Matt Anderson]

Originally Posted by Matt

P.S.S. For those who've gotten on my case for being hard-headed. Trust me, you haven't seen even 20% of it. Ask TJ, she took a 110% and survived, but just bearly. I'm no one's enemy here and no one is mine. I am holding an extreme position on an important issue. You can call me anything and accuse me of anything as a result. I'll live.

Originally Posted by Roger

Not good; not good at all. Witness Lee was like that.

But thanks for sharing with us about the elder brother who is willing to be wrong. Now that's Christ.

Roger

Maybe you didn't catch the underlying fact that my statement was not of pride, but of repentance in that example. Maybe I didn't say that clearly. So let me state it plainly. I have repented of being hard-headed in many cases. It has been my downfall in various situations. It has also been used of the Lord (for He gave me a strong-will as it pleased Him to do) in others, so I was not speaking pridefully. It's okay with me if you attack on that point. I'm easily attacked on that issue, so feel free. Fire away.

It's a good thing that I don't have control over many people's lives with this particular characteristic. I don't deny it. I recognize it and acknowledge it. In fact, I've done it in the past in smaller ways and when His light shone on me all I could do was repent to Him and those affected. Hopefully, I have repented to the point that He bestows His mercy upon me. It is much needed. Thank God and praise God that He has protected me from my own characteristics by measuring out discipline to me and breaking me by His hand (not at the hands of other men). I do not submit to men, but to God because through His Son He has set me free to serve Him alone. I encourage everyone to do the same, so that in that day each may stand before the Lord according to their own service to the Lord. I may not always serve well, but I am willing to be judged in that day just as all others will be. My ability to serve has come from His service to me in my life. He once showed me that I could not know how to serve Him if He did not first serve me. I must confess how good and faithful He is and how incredible His service to me has been. We have a good God who is worthy to be praised and we should fear Him alone, not men or what they say if it does not come from the Spirit of the Lord.

Your greatest strength and/or weakness depending upon how they are used and whether they are used in or out of the Lord's will can be very tricky. In like manner, the strong desire to follow the Lord can become the trap that the Enemy uses to ensnare you and cause you to fall into something other than truly worshipping the Lord alone. If you have this strong desire and are set in an environment that is highly conducive to or steeped in an idolatrous condition it will be even easier to fall prey to this built-in desire. If I were placed at the head of an organization of men with my natural tendency to be self-assured and strong-willed, surely I would fall prey much more easily. This is a sad truth. (Lord lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the Evil one.)

Matt

P.S. I think it was you who encouraged me to just say what I have to say. That's why I've been quieter... I've been working on that.

[Paul Cox]

Matt,

I apologize if I have stepped out of line. I mean you no harm. But, as Ohio said, it was out of frustration.

Please remember, this is an open forum. You express your opinion, I express my opinion, and others express their opinion. Anyone of us can feel that we are commissioned by the Lord to bring forth a burden, and therefore must be faithful to that speaking. If you have this view then you can never feel that we are trying to stop you from anything.

This is a sore spot with some of us because we were trained in a system where one man came forth with what he felt was the "burden" from the Lord, and anybody who dared to contradict him was accused of trying to stop the very move of the Lord.

That should not be what is going on here. You say that everyone in the Local Church system is engaging in idolatry, just by being in the group (unless I misunderstand you). I say not so. I say according to the standard you set, everybody in America is guilty of idolatry, and everybody in every church around the world is guilty of idolatry.

But you know what that is? It is your opinion versus my opinion and that is all. You feel you are clear from the Lord to bring forth this burden. I feel equally clear to say, "no, you are going too far." But it is still just your opinion verses my opinion, and nothing more. It is not you having a burden from the Lord while I'm trying to stop you. That would make you God's oracle, and me just an "opposer." Lord knows, we've been there; done that.

Please accept my apology, and know that I just want to go on in peace. But I would ask you one more time to please consider a separate thread for the subject of idolatry. That's a request and nothing more. It is not the unstoppable speaking from heaven.

Roger

[Matt Anderson]

Originally Posted by Roger

But you know what that is? It is your opinion versus my opinion and that is all. You feel you are clear from the Lord to bring forth this burden. I feel equally clear to say, "no, you are going too far." But it is still just your opinion verses my opinion, and nothing more. It is not you having a burden from the Lord while I'm trying to stop you. That would make you God's oracle, and me just an "opposer." Lord knows, we've been there; done that.

I agree with you on this Roger and I'm no oracle.

Originally Posted by Roger

Please accept my apology, and know that I just want to go on in peace. But I would ask you one more time to please consider a separate thread for the subject of idolatry. That's a request and nothing more. It is not the unstoppable speaking from heaven.

Roger

Apology accepted and I am sorry if my thoughts are frustrating you. I realize that they are. I feel it is important for me to be honest and direct on this issue. Based on our past interactions I have seen the quality of the kind of person you are and I know you have an excellent heart towards the Lord and others. Nothing on this thread will change that.

Here is the only reason I am not taking you up on your request about moving to another thread. The question posed was about how the LCS has affected 1st and 2nd generation LCers and LCer families. I introduced systemic idolatry as a key part of the LCS factor. I introduced it with a broad-brush. I knew then and I realize now that there were going to be objections.

Per your suggestion, I am proceeding at this time with presenting a more complete context for why I am sticking with such an extreme position at this time.

In my heart, I do not condemn anyone based on the substance of this thread. I can only say that knowing that some will not believe me. I have committed many errors in my life. I have received much mercy from God. The discipline I have received has never match my crimes against the Lord. In His lovingkindness, He has always treated me so well. Sometimes, I haven't liked it but I end up realizing later how he was working for my highest benefit. God's mercy is extended to us all and we are already justified through Christ. I cannot condemn what God does not. I can agree with God that sin is sin, but the judgment we receive for our unconfessed sins is still judgment unto mercy and not condemnation. This is how much love our Lord, God and Savior has for us.

To conclude, I am surely putting forward facts, information, and opinions regarding this issue of idolatry with a strong linkage to the topic of this thread. It is the very context of this thread that makes what I am saying more important. I am not talking about idolatry for the sake of idolatry. I'm talking about it because of it's impact on the lives of many.

Matt

[Matt Anderson]

LCS Factor #683

I believe it is important to further solidify the actions of T. Austin Sparks in relationship to Witness Lee and the "ground of locality" disagreement.

Morris Fred has noted the following which he gleaned from both sides of the split in Taiwan.

Sparks, however, felt that this doctrine was too dogmatic and had the effect of turning the principle of locality (which had been discussed by Nee) into a doctrine one which another sect or denomination was being formed, hindering the desired goal of universal fellowship among all Christians. Thus, he encouraged the co-workers within the various local churches to establish contact with other church groups and to preach the gospel in meetings other than their own. Lee correctly saw this as a potential subversion of the organization of the Local Church as it existed in Taiwan. The result was that some of the co-workers and elders were sympathetic with Sparks' position and others maintained allegiance to Lee.

It is posited Sparks' was concerned that Lee was taking what was Nee's "principle of locality" and turning it into a "doctrine of locality".

If you listen to Sparks' message you will hear him specifically address his concerns in front of the whole church there in Taiwan with Lee translating his message.

Why did Sparks' tell it to the church? Because Sparks' was being a faithful brother to Witness Lee.

It is documented that Lee and Sparks had already:

a) Discussed this matter privately.
b) Discussed this matter with witnesses to establish the matter

(If you want references to these facts, please respond and I will get them).

Remember Matthew 18 --> (go privately, go with witnesses, tell it to the church). Well, Sparks' was faithful and did it. He did not stop at telling just a few witnesses. He told the whole church. Lee was furious. Sparks had planted a seed (which was based on the truth in the Word of God) that would cost Lee dearly in his pre-eminence in the Taiwan churches.

Fact: Lee was being confronted because he was in error and leading entire congregations away from the Word of God. His error was a false teaching. The false teaching of the ground of locality as a core doctrine. The fruit of this teaching has borne out it's falseness over the past 50 years. It is false.

Lee needed this false teaching or he could (or would) lose control. This forms a central lynch pin by which to measure Lee's and the BB's deeds throughout his time in the US and across many different situations in the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's and even into the 2000's by his well-trained successors.

T. Austin Sparks argued that the idea of locality was too small for the Lord. Too small for Christ! Lee responded that you had to have a glass in which to put the water! Lee needed a means of control of God's people. Lee needed to be between God and each man for Lee's own purposes.

I'm not lifting up T. Austin Sparks. I am establishing his true witness which given many years ago in faithfulness to the Lord.

Final Reminder: T. Austin Sparks confronted Lee to the whole church in Taiwan before Witness Lee ever entered the United States. This is important. I will come back to this point later.

If you don't think I am heading towards the extremely broad level of idolatry, I will get there soon enough.

(To be continued)

Matt

P.S. Is there a principle of locality which is non-essential? Yes, but it can be lifted too high in your mind. Does it form the basis for a doctrine? No. We meet with those who are geographically convenient, but it is not a doctrine and should not be taught prescriptively or with any emphasis. It's an implicit fact and this is why it is presented descriptively in the Word of God. Furthermore, it surely should not be used to interlink many congregations together across many continents under a single minister/ministry.

In the case of the LC, the 'ground of locality' doctrine has really just a back door to re-introducing the Babylonian system of worship (of hierarchical authority under one demi-god (aka oracle of God/minister of the age) with improper submit & obey principles making "lords" of mere men.) We can see from a distance the results of that kind of system in the Roman Catholic Church. If we are willing to look, we can see the results up close in the Local Churches of Witness Lee.

[Timotheist]

I took a little break from these forums, and just now read (most of) this sad thread.

As what seems par for the course on the other forum, here we see people who are ex-members of the LC fighting amongst themselves. And, as at the other forum, the escalation of the conflict lies almost solely on the shoulders of Matt and TJ.

I came to this forum to get away from this obsessive nonsense. Here I see the disease manifesting itself at full throttle... against Don (Hope) of all people, a man who was in the LC system but clearly not a member of the inner circle of corruption.

Don, I Hope you hang around in spite of the Pharisees. It was good to hear from you again after all of these years.

The problem with the LC in child raising is simply this, Witness brought into the eldership the Chinese way of raising kids, where humiliation is accepted by the culture as a proper tool. What WL failed to see is that our culture would not embrace such methods.

I too was the target of more than one elder lecture. My reaction was one of rebellion rather than acceptance. I did not accept these men as having the authority to make such pronouncements over me. I am sure that this reaction among the American kids to a foreign culture lies at the heart of why so many LC kids left the LC.

The eldership mistook this cultural thing as a spiritual thing and went along. This is not idolatry, this is just the myopic leading the myopic.

[Matt Anderson]

Originally Posted by Timotheist

This is not idolatry, this is just the myopic leading the myopic.

Timotheist,

What is idolatry? Just looking for your definition to interpret your meaning.

If it were just a cultural thing, then the Church in Taiwan would not have split over the issues related to authority/submission. Sorry, that argument doesn't fly. It goes beyond a general cultural issue as the evidence indicates.

By the way, a number of people in our culture did embrace the methods of Lee, but not a large number relative to the whole population.

Matt

Originally Posted by Timotheist

As what seems par for the course on the other forum, here we see people who are ex-members of the LC fighting amongst themselves. And, as at the other forum, the escalation of the conflict lies almost solely on the shoulders of Matt and TJ.

P.S. Thanks for all the credit on this forum and the other one. Such a generalization is pretty nasty as well, but you've gotten to say your piece. Care to establish your sweeping indictment with more facts. At least I try to establish what I am saying with information and not just make the broad generalizations. In addition, I attempt to point it topically and not personally (I know I haven't always succeeded on this second point). I know others may not agree with me, but I don't turn and start playing dirty pool like you just did.

[Hope]

Originally Posted by Timotheist

I took a little break from these forums, and just now read (most of) this sad thread.

As what seems par for the course on the other forum, here we see people who are ex-members of the LC fighting amongst themselves. And, as at the other forum, the escalation of the conflict lies almost solely on the shoulders of Matt and TJ.

I came to this forum to get away from this obsessive nonsense. Here I see the disease manifesting itself at full throttle... against Don (Hope) of all people, a man who was in the LC system but clearly not a member of the inner circle of corruption.

Don, I Hope you hang around in spite of the Pharisees. It was good to hear from you again after all of these years.

The problem with the LC in child raising is simply this, Witness brought into the eldership the Chinese way of raising kids, where humiliation is accepted by the culture as a proper tool. What WL failed to see is that our culture would not embrace such methods.

I too was the target of more than one elder lecture. My reaction was one of rebellion rather than acceptance. I did not accept these men as having the authority to make such pronouncements over me. I am sure that this reaction among the American kids to a foreign culture lies at the heart of why so many LC kids left the LC.

The eldership mistook this cultural thing as a spiritual thing and went along. This is not idolatry, this is just the myopic leading the myopic.

Hello and good to hear from you Timotheist,

The culture thing is a very important item. We had some anti-modern, Puritan, Plymouth Brethren, Madame Guyan (sp) mysticism, and Chinese Culture mixed together and identified as spiritual. I am sorry about some of the elders puting this on you when you were younger. If I was one, I repent.

To the Forum as a whole:

I need to take a break from active participation for a while. I am in a very busy time at work but mainly I need the time to write some hymns for an uncoming conference in Westminster. We will have four meetings starting Friday, Oct. 17 thru the Lord's Day morning. At the current time, the Lord is leading toward the Good News of Jesus Christ as revealed in the book of Romans.

Rom 1:15-17, Thus, for my part, I am eager to proclaim the gospel, (Good News) to you also who are in Rome. For I am not ashamed of the gospel, (Good News), for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "But the righteous man shall live by faith."

I am busting with eagerness and excitement regarding the Good News. IT IS THE POWER OF GOD. Perhaps you have seen the dancing and shouting in the streets of the cities and towns of the USA when victory in WWII was anounced. That good news produced a reaction. When we hear the GOOD NEWS it produces a reaction in us. There is power in the Gospel. I had better stop before I get too carried away.

By the way, if any of the forum would like to join in the fellowship, email me and I will get you any necessary information. dfr144@aol.com

In Christ Jesus there is Hope for us all,

Hope, Don Rutledge