Leaders of the Lord's Recovery

[Cal]

So what if these brothers were ambitious? Since when was ambition a horrible thing? Oh yeah, Lee said so.

Witness Lee was more ambitious than anyone. He just got to live out his ambition because he was top dog. Nice work if you can get it. Ambition as a vice is a non-starter for everyone except people in "the Recovery." And they only worry about it because Lee told them they should, while all along he fulfilled his monstrous ambition of being the "Minister of the Age." In other words, he held everyone else down because he didn't want rivals. Talk about ambition!

Do you see a discrepancy there, or do I have to spell it out further? I mean, the psychology is so warped I guess you have to be warped to fall for it. Unfortunately, that's what being in a movement like that does to you.

The whole Recovery psychology is about submitting your thoughts to another person. Not God, but another fallen person. If you don't, you are labeled ambitious, rebellious, yada, yada. I mean, it's psycho. Some day someone will write a book about it.

The Recovery reminds me of Communist China. On the surface everyone paid lip service to the words of Mao, and would never oppose him in public. But in private the Chinese people ran capitalism wherever they could. My brother-in-law grew up there. That's how he described it. Christians in the Recovery are the same way. They give lip service to Lee's platitudes, but when push comes to shove they live pretty much like any other halfway-serious Christian. They have families, fun, vacations, hobbies, opinions. In short they live human life like everyone else. They just pretend in their conferences like they are significantly different. I guess it makes them feel good to think that. Or maybe they just think they are supposed to.

[alwayslearning]

Originally Posted by Igzy

Witness Lee was more ambitious than anyone. He just got to live out his ambition because he was top dog. Nice work if you can get it. Ambition as a vice is a non-starter for everyone except people in "the Recovery." And they only worry about it because Lee told them they should, while all along he fulfilled his monstrous ambition of being the "Minister of the Age." In other words, he held everyone else down because he didn't want rivals. Talk about ambition!

Yep! And ultimately it created a culture of passivity and dependency on him and his ministry.

Originally Posted by Igzy

The Recovery reminds me of Communist China. On the surface everyone paid lip service to the words of Mao, and would never oppose him in public. But in private the Chinese people ran capitalism wherever they could. My brother-in-law grew up there. That's how he described it. Christians in the Recovery are the same way. They give lip service to Lee's platitudes, but when push comes to shove they live pretty much like any other halfway-serious Christian. They have families, fun, vacations, hobbies, opinions. In short they live human life like everyone else. They just pretend in their conferences like they are significantly different. I guess it makes them feel good to think that. Or maybe they just think they are supposed to.

This maybe how they are now in the "Recovery" but there were some generations who grew up (in the U.S. at least) without TV, radio, vacations, sporting events, hobbies, etc. Kids watched while their parents burned their baby pictures, etc. Vacations were used for conferences and trainings. Parents would go to LA and later Anaheim and leave their kids with sitters for 10 - 21 days. Thanksgiving? Conference. Christmas? Training. Easter? Conference. Memorial Day? Conference. July 4th? Conference. Labor Day? Conference. For these generations their parents were completely consumed with the LC system and the agenda of Witness Lee.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by alwayslearning

This maybe how they are now in the "Recovery" but there were some generations who grew up (in the U.S. at least) without TV, radio, vacations, sporting events, hobbies, etc. Kids watched while their parents burned their baby pictures, etc. Vacations were used for conferences and trainings. Parents would go to LA and later Anaheim and leave their kids with sitters for 10 - 21 days. Thanksgiving? Conference. Christmas? Training. Easter? Conference. Memorial Day? Conference. July 4th? Conference. Labor Day? Conference. For these generations their parents were completely consumed with the LC system and the agenda of Witness Lee.

Yeah ... but ... I was allowed to celebrate Chinese New Year.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Igzy

The whole Recovery psychology is about submitting your thoughts to another person. Not God, but another fallen person. If you don't, you are labeled ambitious, rebellious, yada, yada. I mean, it's psycho. Some day someone will write a book about it.

In Afaithfulword.org it's been spun to a spiritual sounding term; respecting the feeling of the body. If you don't submit to the blending brothers, you're being independent. By all appearances, if you don't make LSM publications the basis of assembling, you are meeting independent of the body.

[Truth]

Originally Posted by Terry

By all appearances, if you don't make LSM publications the basis of assembling, you are meeting independent of the body.

By the way, what happened to the one publication edict? I've noticed that everyone is blogging these days. News songs are being written and posted on the internet. I doubt all of them are LSM approved. Not sure if the one publication can really be carried out. It was possible before the internet era. But now with thousands of members blogging, writing on forums, posting music, messages, etc..., it is impossible to police the situation. I don't think this one publication thing is going to last for very long. What do you guys think?

[aron]

Originally Posted by Truth

I don't think this one publication thing is going to last for very long. What do you guys think?

You can blog under the LSM, as long as your commentary is limited to "Praise the Lord for..." and then you follow with either a Bible verse or a quote from WL. Or, you can say, "I was really enjoying..." and follow with the same.

Anything beyond that, talk to Steve Isitt. He can tell you what happens next.

Or james73 more recently: see his thread on the subject, titled "Kicked out".

http://localchurchdiscussions.com/vB...ead.php?t=4405

james73 made two mistakes: first, he had an opinion. Second, he didn't keep it to himself - he expressed it publicly.

So as long as you don't violate those simple, basic rules: blog away.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Truth

By the way, what happened to the one publication edict? I've noticed that everyone is blogging these days. News songs are being written and posted on the internet. I doubt all of them are LSM approved. Not sure if the one publication can really be carried out. It was possible before the internet era. But now with thousands of members blogging, writing on forums, posting music, messages, etc..., it is impossible to police the situation. I don't think this one publication thing is going to last for very long. What do you guys think?

The one publication edict only applies when the saints stop buying LSM's publications. Perhaps you can post links to some of their sites.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Truth

By the way, what happened to the one publication edict? I've noticed that everyone is blogging these days. News songs are being written and posted on the internet. I doubt all of them are LSM approved. Not sure if the one publication can really be carried out. It was possible before the internet era. But now with thousands of members blogging, writing on forums, posting music, messages, etc..., it is impossible to police the situation. I don't think this one publication thing is going to last for very long. What do you guys think?

I see the key word being publication. Sure you can blog and you can write music. You can even post YouTube videos as long as it's positive for LSM. It's when you publish apart from LSM whether it's a gospel tract, an online article, or a book is when LSM has an issue. Publishing apart from LSM becomes a bigger problem if it detracts from their revenue as we saw in the last decade in the Great Lakes area.

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Truth

By the way, what happened to the one publication edict? I've noticed that everyone is blogging these days. News songs are being written and posted on the internet. I doubt all of them are LSM approved. Not sure if the one publication can really be carried out. It was possible before the internet era. But now with thousands of members blogging, writing on forums, posting music, messages, etc..., it is impossible to police the situation. I don't think this one publication thing is going to last for very long. What do you guys think?

I can confirm that, at least as of the past year or two, some level of policing of internet content produced by individual saints still occurs. I cannot speak to if there is LSM-level policing, but there are a lot of indoctrinated saints with eyes of policemen out there. It is very easy to figure out who owns a site, where that saint lives, who the elders are in that locality, and to contact them about the "rogue" content (content that is otherwise fully acceptable to any non-Nee/Lee Christian). And abracadabra!! The site is then pulled down!

[aron]

Originally Posted by Trapped

. . .there are a lot of indoctrinated saints with eyes of policemen out there. It is very easy to figure out who owns a site, where that saint lives, who the elders are in that locality, and to contact them about the "rogue" content (content that is otherwise fully acceptable to any non-Nee/Lee Christian). And abracadabra!! The site is then pulled down!

Also referred to as "fellowship".

[Indiana]

CATHOLIC CHURCH

"Watchman Nee writes, "We must take notice of one condition that prevailed after the Roman Catholic Church came into being. We know how the Roman Church was filled with heresy, idols, filthiness, and sins. Why did no brothers or sisters in the church stand up to deal with the situation for eleven hundred years? Could it be that no brothers or sisters had seen the heresies? Could it be that they had not seen the idols? Could it be that they had not seen the filthy sins?

In the eleven hundred years following the fourth century, there were definitely some who saw the heresies, idols, and filthy sins, but not one dared to deal with them! They feared that once they dealt with these things, they would immediately break the “unity.” “The church is one,” they said. “If we begin to deal with the idols, the church will be divided.” They felt that the sin of worshipping idols was great, but the sin of ruining the unity was even greater. Therefore, even though they rejected the worship of idols themselves, they did not speak out. They feared that speaking out might ruin the unity. They knew of the heresies and they knew of the idols; moreover, they hated the heresies and they hated the idols. But even more, they hated to destroy the unity. Therefore, they simply avoided the heresies and idols; they dared not evoke any word, message, or action that might ruin the unity. For a period of one thousand one hundred years no one made any move; they continued to keep the unity of the church." (Further Talks on the Church Life, ch 4, online, Ministrybooks.org)


In the Wake of the New Way

http://lordsrecovery.us/uploads/3/4/...ayabridged.pdf

[Indiana]

Originally Posted by Indiana

CATHOLIC CHURCH

"Watchman Nee writes, "We must take notice of one condition that prevailed after the Roman Catholic Church came into being. We know how the Roman Church was filled with heresy, idols, filthiness, and sins. Why did no brothers or sisters in the church stand up to deal with the situation for eleven hundred years? Could it be that no brothers or sisters had seen the heresies? Could it be that they had not seen the idols? Could it be that they had not seen the filthy sins?

In the eleven hundred years following the fourth century, there were definitely some who saw the heresies, idols, and filthy sins, but not one dared to deal with them! They feared that once they dealt with these things, they would immediately break the “unity.” “The church is one,” they said. “If we begin to deal with the idols, the church will be divided.” They felt that the sin of worshipping idols was great, but the sin of ruining the unity was even greater. Therefore, even though they rejected the worship of idols themselves, they did not speak out. They feared that speaking out might ruin the unity. They knew of the heresies and they knew of the idols; moreover, they hated the heresies and they hated the idols. But even more, they hated to destroy the unity. Therefore, they simply avoided the heresies and idols; they dared not evoke any word, message, or action that might ruin the unity. For a period of one thousand one hundred years no one made any move; they continued to keep the unity of the church." (Further Talks on the Church Life, ch 4, online, Ministrybooks.org)


In the Wake of the New Way

http://lordsrecovery.us/uploads/3/4/...ayabridged.pdf

Watchman Nee said,

"There were definitely some who saw the heresies, idols, and filthy sins, but not one dared to deal with them! They feared that once they dealt with these things, they would immediately break the “unity." (Further Talks)


And, we have to see that there is much more concern for the unity of the Local Churches than for dealing with sins and idols.

Genesis program # 43, with Dick Taylor, on the covering of Noah. They (Dick and Chris) were subdued throughout, speaking against conscience, supporting the insufferable concept that “we must have the view of God’s government, not of the mistakes of a leader”; that “we have to exercise to be blind and just keep enjoying Christ, not that there isn’t any division, immorality, or idol worship”. - DickTaylor

http://lsmradio.org/audio/genesis.html #43