The LCS Factor

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Igzy

I mean, we always talked about Christ alone, but when push came to shove we never stood by it. Did we? Being one with the program always took precedent.

I s'pose it's easier to talk about football.


I haven't met another group of Christians who got this whole thing perfectly right either.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I s'pose it's easier to talk about football.


I haven't met another group of Christians who got this whole thing perfectly right either.

Because it's not a group thing, it's a personal thing.

[OBW]

TJ,

I think JPL is onto something. But I’m not sure it is truly the advance guard that runs into these crazy deceptions. I think it is those who are somewhere in between. It is believers who have moved beyond milk and have a little knowledge. They are seeking more, and do not yet have sufficient defenses against the wiles, traps, sugary words that sway them away from the truth before they have the spiritual strength gained from further spiritual growth. They may be willing to follow “at any cost” but have not truly counted the cost. In other words, there is an aspect of the cost that is actually away from Christ and is not taken into account because of the exuberant desire to follow something that looks so good. Most of the early Texas contingent would be in this group. Even by 1973, that is probably where I would put my family. There may have been some exceptions, but it seems mostly true from my limited knowledge. They surely were strong seekers of Christ, but they were not yet an “advance guard” with wisdom to see through the wiles of the enemy. Even the now-senior Texas member (and often pointed to as a leader) of the BBs was just an enthusiastic kid in the mid 60s. He was far from any “advance guard.”

I believe that the true advance guard will not be so easily fooled. That means that virtually everyone who came to the LC was somewhat less than advance guard. Some may have been closer, but they were still captured by the less obvious and then carried into what should have been more obvious. Or they were captured by the less obvious and then spent time trying to reconcile the discrepancies as aberrations that could be overlooked or explained away. This would be those few that we consider more like true advance guard. The John Ingalls types and other more seasoned Christian ministers who joined the LC with some spiritual weight already under their belt. One way or the other, many of those have seen the light. If you take into account the ones who are charting a modified course in the GLA and other places, there are few of the true “advance guard” remaining in the old-line LC.

I’m sure that someone can find a hole in this theory. It is just that. I see several places to pick it apart. But like a good metaphor, it only tells the part it tells. If we try to make it fit the entire situation, it will fail, or our account of the entire situation will be faulty (depending on whether we want to throw an incomplete metaphor out or presume that a metaphor tells it all and applies in all possible analogies).

Now if JPL simply meant "those burning for more of Christ" by the term advance guard, then I see her point a little better. In that case, "advance guard" does not suggest weight of experience and knowledge, but desire for more. We already know that those who do not desire more probably have no interest in the LC.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by OBW

I’m sure that someone can find a hole in this theory.

Some have spoken their "concerns" in the past, but their voices were squelched. Hence those "concerns" never became known by the LC "rank and file." The "smear machine" took over to "silence" these voices. Due to fear, the concept of deputy authority, Christian honor, and other reasons, many have remained silent after they left.

It is the internet, invented by former VP Gore, that brought these few voices together.

[Thankful Jane]

Originally Posted by OBW

TJ,

I think JPL is onto something. But I’m not sure it is truly the advance guard that runs into these crazy deceptions. I think it is those who are somewhere in between. It is believers who have moved beyond milk and have a little knowledge. They are seeking more, and do not yet have sufficient defenses against the wiles, traps, sugary words that sway them away from the truth before they have the spiritual strength gained from further spiritual growth. They may be willing to follow “at any cost” but have not truly counted the cost. In other words, there is an aspect of the cost that is actually away from Christ and is not taken into account because of the exuberant desire to follow something that looks so good. Most of the early Texas contingent would be in this group. Even by 1973, that is probably where I would put my family. There may have been some exceptions, but it seems mostly true from my limited knowledge. They surely were strong seekers of Christ, but they were not yet an “advance guard” with wisdom to see through the wiles of the enemy. Even the now-senior Texas member (and often pointed to as a leader) of the BBs was just an enthusiastic kid in the mid 60s. He was far from any “advance guard.”

I believe that the true advance guard will not be so easily fooled. That means that virtually everyone who came to the LC was somewhat less than advance guard. Some may have been closer, but they were still captured by the less obvious and then carried into what should have been more obvious. Or they were captured by the less obvious and then spent time trying to reconcile the discrepancies as aberrations that could be overlooked or explained away. This would be those few that we consider more like true advance guard. The John Ingalls types and other more seasoned Christian ministers who joined the LC with some spiritual weight already under their belt. One way or the other, many of those have seen the light. If you take into account the ones who are charting a modified course in the GLA and other places, there are few of the true “advance guard” remaining in the old-line LC.

I’m sure that someone can find a hole in this theory. It is just that. I see several places to pick it apart. But like a good metaphor, it only tells the part it tells. If we try to make it fit the entire situation, it will fail, or our account of the entire situation will be faulty (depending on whether we want to throw an incomplete metaphor out or presume that a metaphor tells it all and applies in all possible analogies).

Now if JPL simply meant "those burning for more of Christ" by the term advance guard, then I see her point a little better. In that case, "advance guard" does not suggest weight of experience and knowledge, but desire for more. We already know that those who do not desire more probably have no interest in the LC.

Hi Mike,

This is the part that mentioned “advance guard”:

But there are others, who may be described as the advance guard of the Church of Christ, who have been baptized with the Holy Ghost, or who are seeking that Baptism; honest and earnest believers, who sigh and cry over the powerlessness of the true Church of Christ, and who grieve that her witness is so ineffective; that Spiritism and Christian Science, and other "isms," are sweeping thousands into their deceptive errors, little thinking, that, as they themselves go forward into the spiritual realm, the deceiver, who has misled others, has special wiles prepared for them, so that he might render ineffective their aggressive power against him.

This is the best explanation I can find of what JPL meant by advance guard. I don’t think she meant “advanced” referring to people who were spiritually mature, but meant something more like out front in the pursuit of God.

She’s not around any more, so we can’t ask her. I’m sure she never imagined such a thing as the internet and her words being discussed like this.
Anyway, I don’t make a lot out of words that some one uses only a time or two. I just try to get to the main thrust of what is being said. She seems to be saying that intense seekers and/or those with new fresh experiences of the Spirit need to be alert to the possibility of deception.

This happened with the Welsh revival, where many were saved powerfully and there were many visible evidences of the Holy Spirit working. This was followed by many counterfeit manifestations that brought in confusion and had bad effects on people … but that’s another story.

Thankful Jane

[OBW]

TJ,

I didn't remember JPL's contexts right off. But it almost sounds like what I mentioned. Strong salvations but not yet with significant depth.

Anyway, it was a reasonable spiritual and sociological (although she didn't think of it that way) analysis of some tendencies to get wrapped up in errors.

Thanks for the input.