Women's Role

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by QOSTA

Evangelical. Thank you for your input. There are couple things I wanted to talk about but how about we start with one.

What is your understanding on sexism? I'm also in Women's, Gender and Sexuality Studies and by no means the "common definition of sexism today" has ever revolved around "females are not allowed to use the male toilets and vice versa". Sexism is, and has always been about "the prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination based on a person's sex or gender." Note here that by definition, sexism can affect either gender.

And I apologize if I haven't made it clearer. When I talked about sexism exhibited in the LC, I was referring to misogyny, which stands for dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women. From my experience, there certainly is prejudice against women in LC. I'm taking your comment "there's no dress code" at face value; Sure, different localities might have different practices. I'll just ask you one thing: Who do you see, in the leadership circle of LC, is a woman? And whom among those women that you considered leaders in the LC community, is not some elder/male leader's wife, sister, daughter? I'm genuinely curious if you know any sister that is in leadership position because of and only because of her spirituality.

That's the thing. Sexism to me is all about power dynamics. Men hold positions of power in the LC system. Men have all the representation in leadership. There are at least the same number of women, if not more, in the LC system. Why aren't women represented in positions of power and be involved in high level decision making? There are and always have been spiritual giants that are women. When voices from one gender are not heard but rather ignored, whatever the situation is, there is a problem.

I appreciate you bringing up the historical viewpoint. If you think people then got things right and you would rather live according to those standards, well, I'm fairly certain that I know much more about you as a person and a believer than how much info you revealed about yourself on this forum.

Thank you for your input. Looking forward to seeing your reply.

Hi QOSTA,

If the meaning of sexism meant misogyny then I have no problem with that. The topic however usually reverts to "women can't be leaders" but the two matters are different issues. I note that your post started off talking about misogyny but then reverted to matters of women in church leadership. If "women can't be leaders" is the same as misogyny then Jesus was sexist for choosing only 12 male church leaders and in not allowing Mary, a woman, to touch Him after His resurrection, but allowing Thomas, a male disciple, to touch Him.

Therefore in the first church, the group of 12 disciples, the voices of women were not heard and no woman was involved in the decision making of the church. The Last Supper, Jesus shared only with his closest 12, and the women close to Jesus did not participate nor were they invited.

One would think that if Jesus was truly a social reformer, intending to bring in equality between the sexes, he would have included at least one woman on his team and would not be shy about doing so. He had no problem being persecuted for meeting with tax collectors and prostitutes, yet he never reversed hundreds of years of Jewish tradition. Still, there were many women close to Jesus and loved by Jesus, Mary, Martha, etc. The thing is, they did not have to be included in high level decision making, and furthermore, they were happy about that and did not complain about it. That kind of woman that God prefers is described in 1 Peter 3:4 You should clothe yourselves instead with the beauty that comes from within, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is so precious to God.

Submission, not trying to achieve leadership positions, is how holy women have always behaved according to Peter:

1 Peter 3:5 For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to adorn themselves. They submitted themselves to their own husbands,

verse 6:

Sarah obeyed her husband, Abraham, and called him her master.


Sarah did not seek an equal leadership position alongside her husband Abraham nor seek to be Abraham's master/leader. Yet Sarah was still truly a great woman. Sarah is an example of a great, holy woman.

In my experience, 1 Peter 3:4 does not describe most women I know involved in feminism movements. God is not impressed at women trying to achieve high positions of authority in the church with their boldness and loudness. He is rather, impressed by women who can suppress their ambitions, if any, and become a gentle and quiet spirit, in support of leaders.

Just because a female may be very spiritual, even more spiritual then men, it does not qualify them for a leadership position over men. Sarah for example may have been far more spiritual than Abraham, yet she was still obliged to call him her master.

You have said that sexism to you is about power dynamics.

To me, it is about God's creation and how male and female were created differently. There is something in most men, in their God-given DNA that does not want nor require women to be their leaders.
There is also something ingrained in most women I know, that causes them to not desire to be leaders. The situation of male leaders and female supporters mirrors the life of Abraham and Sarah, and the intended purpose for women to be helpers for men. God created Eve intending her to be a helper for Adam, not his leader.

Remember, God did not create women first. They were not originally in God's plan for mankind, until God saw that the animals alone were not enough for Adam. Paul's reason for not allowing women in positions of authority was simply because Adam was created first:
1 Tim 2:13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve.

On the matter of what the bible says, I bring up two great articles by a well respected theologian and Greek NT expert that you may be interested to read given your studies.

https://bible.org/series/women-leadership

The historical and I believe true interpretation of the bible, in the original Greek, does not support the modern day concepts of females in church leadership. One cannot support female leaders in the church without compromising some aspect of the bible or their spirituality.

The bible's message that salvation is for both male and female has been compromised by twisting it around to mean that male and female are equal, when int he life of Sarah/Abraham, Adam/Eve, Jesus and the disciples, Peter, Paul, this is clearly not the case. Galatians 3:28, does not abolish all sexual differences so that men and women may function in identical capacities.