Christ Becoming The Live-Giving Spirit

[Sons to Glory!]

Those are the two things I suspected some on here might have issue with!

As far as "must" (call on Him) it does say that, "Every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord." (Phil 2:11) But it might be more palatable to some to replace "must" with "should."

And I have an awareness that some object to saying Christ became a Spirit (at least I think that's what they object to), but I haven't figured out why exactly . . .

[JJ]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Those are the two things I suspected some on here might have issue with!

As far as "must" (call on Him) it does say that, "Every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord." (Phil 2:11) But it might be more palatable to some to replace "must" with "should."

And I have an awareness that some object to saying Christ became a Spirit (at least I think that's what they object to), but I haven't figured out why exactly . . .

The issue lies in saying Christ became The Spirit because 1 Corinthians 15:45 doesn’t say that. Here is what it actually says

https://biblehub.com/text/1_corinthians/15-45.htm
Speaking in the context of resurrection it says The last Adam was made a life giving spirit (a not The, and small s not capital S). This speaks of Jesus Christ as the last Adam in contrast to the first Adam that God made a living soul. Jesus came to raise the dead and to give life, and give it abundantly. That is his function, not necessarily becoming one of the other three of the Trinity.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by JJ

The issue lies in saying Christ became The Spirit because 1 Corinthians 15:45 doesn’t say that. Here is what it actually says

https://biblehub.com/text/1_corinthians/15-45.htm
Speaking in the context of resurrection it says The last Adam was made a life giving spirit (a not The, and small s not capital S). This speaks of Jesus Christ as the last Adam in contrast to the first Adam that God made a living soul. Jesus came to raise the dead and to give life, and give it abundantly. That is his function, not necessarily becoming one of the other three of the Trinity.

Amen. This - "not necessarily becoming one of the other three of the Trinity" - gets into matters of the Trinity, of which I don't understand and am not qualified to speak. Various verses do say "Spirit of His Son" and "Spirit of Christ" and "Spirit of Jesus." (Rom 8:9, Gal 4:6, Acts. 16:7) I've heard it said that these are referring to the indwelling Christ, while the HS is without for power. Could that be?

[JJ]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Amen. This - "not necessarily becoming one of the other three of the Trinity" - gets into matters of the Trinity, of which I don't understand and am not qualified to speak. Various verses do say "Spirit of His Son" and "Spirit of Christ" and "Spirit of Jesus." (Rom 8:9, Gal 4:6, Acts. 16:7) I've heard it said that these are referring to the indwelling Christ, while the HS is without for power. Could that be?

Right, there are many other verses to look at (I have links below to the Greek inter linear of them because it shows whether the article The or a are really there and whether spirit is capitalized or not). When I read them all together it seems that there is something mysterious about how Christ is in us and The Spirit is too.

Galatians 4:6

https://biblehub.com/blb/galatians/4.htm

2 Corinthians 3:17

https://biblehub.com/text/2_corinthians/3-17.htm

2 Corinthians 3:18

https://biblehub.com/text/2_corinthians/3-18.htm

Acts 16:7

https://biblehub.com/text/acts/16-7.htm

Philippians 1:19

https://biblehub.com/text/philippians/1-19.htm

Romans 8:9


https://biblehub.com/text/romans/8-9.htm


Romans 8:10

https://biblehub.com/text/romans/8-10.htm

Colossians 1:27


https://biblehub.com/text/colossians/1-27.htm

[Sons to Glory!]

Thanks for those verses and Greek references! Yes, it would seem where pneuma (spirit) is pertaining to divinity the article "the" is used in front of it. The times it is not used would seem to indicate our human spirit (as Romans 8:9-10 clearly shows).

1st Corinthians 3:16 says, “Do you not know your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit?” I remember being in a Romans training where Lee was talking about this passage in Romans 8:9-11 (edited from Greek - see below):

You, however, are not in flesh, but in spirit, if indeed Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet the Spirit life because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of the One who raised Jesus from the dead is dwelling in you, the One who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit, who dwells in you.

I recall Lee conveyed something like this regarding the above passage - "So who is in you? Is it God? Is it Christ? Is it The Spirit? No one can say for sure! It seems it could be pretty crowded in there! " And then he laughed. The point I took away is that no one can figure this out in our limited, human mentality. It's like the pot trying to figure out the potter, who is infinitely more uncomprehendable.

[JJ]

Sons to Glory,: “thanks for those verses and Greek references! Yes, it would seem where pneuma (spirit) is pertaining to divinity the article "the" is used in front of it. The times it is not used would seem to indicate our human spirit (as Romans 8:9-10 clearly shows).

1st Corinthians 3:16 says, “Do you not know your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit?” I remember being in a Romans training where Lee was talking about this passage in Romans 8:9-11 (edited from Greek - see below)”

I wish Bible translators capitalized Spirit when it was capitalized in the Greek manuscripts and didn’t add The, of, etc... but maybe there are legitimate translation reasons because English is not Greek. I wish I knew. Romans 8 mostly uses spirit, but most translators translate Spirit most of the time and are inconsistent between translations throwing us into more unclarity.

I also thought it interesting that literal translations of two of the verses say “Spirit Christ” and “Spirit Jesus Christ” but translators add “of” between Spirit and Christ as well as Spirit and Jesus respectively. There is also a verse that says Lord Spirit. Maybe someone with Greek manuscript and Greek expertise can tell us if there are good reasons for these or if they are wrong to do this.

[JJ]

Originally Posted by JJ

Right, there are many other verses to look at (I have links below to the Greek inter linear of them because it shows whether the article The or a are really there and whether spirit is capitalized or not). When I read them all together it seems that there is something mysterious about how Christ is in us and The Spirit is too.

Galatians 4:6

https://biblehub.com/blb/galatians/4.htm

2 Corinthians 3:17

https://biblehub.com/text/2_corinthians/3-17.htm

2 Corinthians 3:18

https://biblehub.com/text/2_corinthians/3-18.htm

Acts 16:7

https://biblehub.com/text/acts/16-7.htm

Philippians 1:19

https://biblehub.com/text/philippians/1-19.htm

Romans 8:9


https://biblehub.com/text/romans/8-9.htm


Romans 8:10

https://biblehub.com/text/romans/8-10.htm

Colossians 1:27


https://biblehub.com/text/colossians/1-27.htm

More verses I missed on this topic:

2 Corinthians 3:6

https://biblehub.com/text/2_corinthians/3-6.htm

John 6:63

https://biblehub.com/text/john/6-63.htm

John 20:22


https://biblehub.com/text/john/20-22.htm

Regarding that verse https://biblehub.com/greek/1720.htm

[Sons to Glory!]

Good citations! So was Lee trying to say that the HS wasn't present until after Christ's resurrection? The verses cited from the OT don't appear to have a definite article (the) in front of "Holy Spirit" as is present in the NT. Could these verses in the OT be more of a description rather than a specific name?

In looking at the nature of God, spirit is a key description (along with love & light). And we have spirit used for a number of divine "entities" (that is perhaps not the best word to use) including:

Spirit of God
Spirit of Christ
Spirit of Jesus Christ
Spirit of His Son
The Spirit
The Holy Spirit
A life-giving spirit
Seven spirits of God

Concerning Romans 8:9-11, to my knowledge no other passage portrays as wide array of references about who is in us, like it does. What are your thoughts on that passage?