Posts Related to the Poster Shattered

09-06-2012, 12:26 AM

As I have started to read the many threads found on this website, the first thing that stands out as a women, is the inability for current or even past LC members to even acknowledge the abuse of women found in this cult started by WN. Not one person has been able to even address the theme of spiritual abuse started with WN in this thread. I understand, as fellow women survivors have told me, that getting any recognition of this will be near impossible from any male current, or ex-LC member. The guilt of what you have done, and promoted is far too much for you to even acknowledge. Of the three closest families growing up in the LC to me, all six daughters have been abused. Despite this, I cannot be made silent. Everyone in this forum must acknowledge what the ideology of this cult does to women across this globe or I promise you, God will judge you. I doubt the first person Jesus presented his resurrected self to would be someone he judged as inferior. “Mark 16:9: Now after He had risen early on the first day of the week, He first appeared to Mary Magdalene, from whom He had cast out seven demons.” As stated in the beginning of this thread, WN was a sexual deviant. This was followed by sexual abuses by WL and his family. These are facts. You cannot deny this. This is clearly to those outside of this cult, 99% of the educated world, a horrific example of men using fear, God and eternal damnation as a means to empower themselves and selfishly live a life abusing their families as a personal means to save themselves from a false God. While I know none of you will admit or acknowledge any of this, I know the words you are currently reading may plant the seed of “Dis-Brainwashing”, if I may make up a term. While you all can nit-pick at the historical veracity of events, which will never end, because none of this can be absolutely proven, much like the bible. I hope that your tenacity at denying reality and nit picking absurd details helps you find Truth and God, truly. All of you need to pray about what is CURRENTLY happening in the church and how it all started with monsters like WN and WL. Look at your life around you, enter the world, and see what monsters the LC and Satan himself have created.

Again, I will ask, who here will address the theme of sexual and spiritual abuse started by WN? Discussing the veracity of published documents will lead you nowhere. Instead, I challenge all of you to address the issues of gross sexual abuse surounding the LC in current times.

Cal · 09-06-2012, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered

As I have started to read the many threads found on this website, the first thing that stands out as a women, is the inability for current or even past LC members to even acknowledge the abuse of women found in this cult started by WN. Not one person has been able to even address the theme of spiritual abuse started with WN in this thread.

...

Again, I will ask, who here will address the theme of sexual and spiritual abuse started by WN? Discussing the veracity of published documents will lead you nowhere. Instead, I challenge all of you to address the issues of gross sexual abuse surounding the LC in current times.

Thanks for posting. I appreciate your frustration. But to say that not one person has acknowledge the abuse of women in the LC is not accurate. Maybe this subject hasn't been discussed lately, but it has appeared before, particularly under discussion of Jane Anderson, and the unrighteous disciplining she was subjected to by the male bullies in the LC like Ray Graver and Benson Phillips.

If you are claiming specifically about Nee, what evidence do you have of this abuse? How can we discuss the issue without input of facts?

If you wish to add to the discussion some information about the LC treatment of women, please do. We need more female posters and they are heartily welcomed.

In particular, please elaborate on your claim of "gross sexual abuse surrounding the LC." What specifically are you talking about?

Thanks.

Ohio · 09-06-2012, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Hasn’t it been clearly delineated in this forum and all over the internet, published books, articles and tapes that there is a culture of silence in the LC? And because of this very topic, many women are not going to speak up for fear of Gods judgments and overstepping their “duty” as a women, Chuck even told them that himself. Furthermore, didn’t Charles Manson’s followers defend him?

Horribly insulting and discrediting to your case for you to even place these two Charles' into the same paragraph.

09-06-2012, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohio

Horribly insulting and discrediting to your case for you to even place these two Charles' into the same paragraph.

Sorry I speak plainly. Also, I only took your frame of logic and applied it to another example so you can see how flawed your logic is concerning what makes a person good. I would never say CHUCK is LIKE CHARLES. Only, your use of anecdotal evidence to defend his published teachings is a bad way of viewing the world. Again, you have not addressed whether or not "Chuck" or you believe in the published materials he has that put women down. I will directly ask you, Do you or do you not believe in the subjection of women to man?

Again, I think the frustration you are expressing here on this forum is cleary you being frustrated with yourself. For all I have done is to quote Chuck and how his preaching set the tone for a women’s abuse. Having a women not speak in coded language like many of you and nit picking at details like you often do, and plainly and unapologetically calling out the abuses many of you have participated in and, as found here on this forum BEGAN WITH WN is probably incredibly hard to deal with. The group of women LC survivors I know all also have had a long journey or recovery and self-realization that has been slow and difficult.

In response to IGZY and alwayslearning

Specifically about Nee, we have this new example of abuse that I cannot wait to read in English. And find it interesting that the last man that even I thought as good WN, also was a sexual deviant making pornography in motel rooms. I mean, you can’t write fiction any better than how the LC history has unfolded. I am confident and God has filled me with his confidence that she is telling the truth. I do not think a woman, who has received higher education and is nearly on her deathbed would have any reason to falsely relive her horrific memoirs. This book will be great and I hope you all except it. I will allow you all to continue nitpicking at the veracity of this book while I will take it as another piece to the puzzle and allow it to help me paint the picture of the LC and its horrors.

As far as delineating the gross sexual abuses found in the LC, I think you need not force a woman to publically humiliate herself. And if you cannot see how women are left shattered and abused by this church than also, we are coming to a dead end here. It seems that truly many of you have a true cognitive inability to except that this church keeps women down and puts them in situations that are horrific and not common outside to the church. A cult expert that meets with our group of survivors has shed light that for the men who leave to break the frame of logic that swept them up is near impossible. And without conscious effort, will never happen. Brothers allowing or not allowing their wives to do simple things, grown men never cooking dinner or changing a diaper, all the while holding eternal damnation over her head is only where it begins. You know where it ends. RAPE, there I said it. Women in the LC are to a shocking degree raped more often than others. Be it by men in the church or caused because they think they are just an object to be used by men, a belief caused by the church’s teachings and style of control and power, it is all the same thing. Now I know many of you will be rape apologists and deny this. It is true. I hope one day God graces you with forgiveness for teaching that women need be less than men.

Make no mistake; no fornicator . . . , no adulterer or sexual pervert, will possess the kingdom of God. 1 Cor. 6:9–10

Cal · 09-06-2012, 12:35 PM

Dear Guest,

It's pretty clear you carry a lot of resentment and anger. It may be justified, but we are not your enemies here. Why would be be running and participating on a forum such as this if we wanted to hide the offenses of the LC? Of course we are open to evidence. Rather than rebuke us for being in denial (how can one be in denial of something one has barely heard of?) why don't you educate us on the facts?

It sounds like you are Asian. Is that where this subjugation you have witnessed happens? We are mostly from America. Besides the actions of Lee's sons and a few isolated incidents, we do not know of sexual abuse in the American LCs. Do you know of any?

Have you been abused yourself? This forum can be anonymous. There is no need for public exposure of identity.

When you speak of RAPE, are you referring to gross rape, or are you referring to husbands who expect their wives to have sex whether the wife feels like it or not, and to generally be at their beckon call?

You must clarify. It does you nor your cause any good to speak generalities and accuse people you don't even know of things you are not certain of.

Like I said, we are not the enemy. Relax, take a breath and tell us some specific facts as calmly as you can muster. We need facts, not arm waving.

Ohio · 09-06-2012, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Make no mistake; no fornicator . . . , no adulterer or sexual pervert, will possess the kingdom of God. 1 Cor. 6:9–10

Be careful sister, what you say, because revilers are on that list too.

09-06-2012, 02:00 PM

Fact 1. I am an Asian American from California.

Fact 2. Rape is rape. No means no. There is no "level" of rape. You're better than that thinking Igzy.

Fact 2. I was raped outside of the church, but felt that it was my fault and there was nothing I could do about it because of the rhetoric of "Women are inferior" and "You were asking for it" told to me as a child. I kept it as a secret for many years and I had no one to talk to.

Fact 3. Not only was I raped, but many of the girls I grew up with in the church were. Some by LC members and some outside of it because of how we were made to feel. Elders in our church in California knew of some of the rapes, and still did literally nothing and told the victims to not talk about it. The men who raped these girls were never reprimanded and were continued to be allowed around women, even their victims.

Fact 4. None of us victims ever talked about it, or told anyone until we all started sharing and it was shocking, even to us how common it was and still no one knew or talked about it.

Fact 5. In a seperate instance to my rapes, at a church function, I was molested by a LC member as a young girl. An elder found out. I was reprimanded for the way I dressed and told "I was asking for it". The male was never even told not to do that again. This is not only my experience, but almost across the board for young women in the church us survivors are finding out the more we talk about it.

Fact 6. The history of sexual abuse, victim blaming and covering up and not talking about things, I thought started with WL. Apparently it started with pornographic materials made by WN.

Fact 7. Until men, in the LC or ex-LC members begin to acknowledge this and furthermore begin to call out these abuses and do something about it, it will continue to happen as women are given no respect amongst the church and on top of that thought to be the only cause of heresies. This is a burden on your shoulders now and you can choose to do something about it or not. God WILL judge you not only on what you do in this life, but what you choose not to do.

There is much more, but if these facts cannot move you to do something, nothing will. I am not trying to sound angry, only simple, plain and direct and am sorry for that miscommunication via text. I also am incredibly sorry that the LC has made it so hard for many ex members to acknowledge reality.

An excellent wife, who can find ? For her worth is far above jewels. Proverbs 31:10

OHIO, using abusive language in this context is not Reviling. These are abusive topics and I will not coat it with flowery language or dumb it down to make it easier for you to read. The feelings you have right now of telling ME to be careful are just you projecting your own guilt onto me. Shame on you. You still, have not answered any question I have asked. I take your silence as a "yes, I do believe that women are inferior and weaker than men". If you didn’t believe in this horrific model of life, you would jump at the opportunity to defend yourself.

Cal · 09-06-2012, 02:30 PM

Let me see if I can sum up what I'm hearing by reading between the lines:

You are a former member of the LC and a victim of rape and sexual abuse.
You were not raped by anyone in the LC, but by someone outside the LC.
You were molested by an older LC man, but were blamed for it yourself. He was not disciplined.
You feel the attitude toward women in the LC causes the men in the LC to have little sympathy for sexually abused women. This in turn causes the abused women further psychological damage.
You have spoken with other women that were molested in the LC.
However, you don't know for sure of any other LC woman who were actually raped by an LC man, other than thinking that LC husbands probably force themselves on their wives because you believe they are probably jerks anyway.

Am I on the right track?

It's very serious to accuse people of rape. I've very sorry you experienced the things you did. But that doesn't give you the right to accuse men randomly and generally. You need to be specific. Do you know firsthand of any LC woman or girl who was raped by an LC man?

Ohio · 09-06-2012, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered

OHIO, using abusive language in this context is not Reviling. These are abusive topics and I will not coat it with flowery language or dumb it down to make it easier for you to read. The feelings you have right now of telling ME to be careful are just you projecting your own guilt onto me. Shame on you. You still, have not answered any question I have asked. I take your silence as a "yes, I do believe that women are inferior and weaker than men". If you didn’t believe in this horrific model of life, you would jump at the opportunity to defend yourself.

I am "projecting guilt" on no one, let alone you. It is you who have projected guilt upon every male member, past and present. I found your comments about Chuck Debelek to be insulting and, yes, reviling. That's why I cautioned you. The Apostle Paul says revilers will not inherit the kingdom of God. Revilers are those who abuse verbally and employ calumny, misrepresenting others and bringing malicious charges to harm another's reputation. Apostle Peter instruct us, even if we have been reviled or abused, we should not revile in return. (I Pt. 2.21-23)

This has nothing to do with "flowery language or dumbing it down to make it easier for me to read." You have challenged every reader on this forum and "placed your burdens upon our shoulders." We are neither the police, social workers, prosecutors, nor the judges. You should bring all your grievances to the proper authorities. Where were your parents when you were abused? We are a forum of current and former members. We can sympathize with you and provide an audience, helping any way we can, but that is all we can be expected to do.

And to answer your question, I think most women are smarter, stronger, and superior to me in many ways. I'm afraid of some women, in fact, years ago I was kicked in the shins by two different single sisters. (Perhaps I wasn't paying attention to them.) My father taught me never to hit a woman, even if she hits me first.

09-06-2012, 06:35 PM

IGZY

This is frankly shocking. I did not expect to come on here and receive the responses I have. I am not trying to sound like I am attacking, and am sorry for that miscommunication. I never directly accused anyone of anything. I did quote Chuck and his published documents as a means to start somewhere concerning the hurtful rhetoric perpetuated in the church. I have said though, that the burden of guilt should be shared by all those who have been in the church and furthered this rhetoric. That includes me, for many years I too spread the messages of hate for women, as a woman! How brainwashed was I!

I have dealt with this guilt and am starting to wash myself clean by trying to actually do something about it, and hope you find that motivation one day too. Self-righteous outburst? That is one way to call a rape victim who is only plainly and simply describing factual events in an attempt to make this a better world. It is funny you say that because many of us victims felt like WE were the ones who were wrong and deserved to be raped, hardly self-righteous! I still am overcoming an incredible amount of shame, self-hate and a fear of men. I do use strong language perhaps, but this is serious stuff and needs to be spoken about directly, especially because we all have been in a culture of silence and ignoring the physical world around us for a long time, some maybe even currently. I also was shocked at how you described rape and molestation and while I am sure you think they are horrible and all the same, it did not come across that way. I truly do not think I am better than anyone. I just want people to acknowledge this, which has been much harder than I ever thought. I realize now that this has done little to help and perhaps only separated us even more, and if that’s the case, I am horribly regretful. I hope there will be a day when we can all share in the happiness and joy of helping even just one girl or boy escape this cult.

Alwayslearning

As far as what to do, that is a great question. I don’t know. Because of the nature of these crimes and the nature of this cult, it is hard for these women and me to come public about it. The shaming and victim blaming, even found on this forum would be gigantic if charges were pressed and may hurt us even more. I am currently in a cult specialist therapy program and working with specialists at Stanford and I hope I myself can bring charges forth, but that will have to be on my own time. This is incredibly hard to deal with and has left many of us victims “paralyzed”. As far as parents in the LC dealing with this, well I think we all know that will never happened, and as I have cited earlier, some parents have known about rapes and they only told the victim to keep quiet and act like it never happened. As far as men, I just hope that they can begin by taking small steps and begin to dismantle this rhetoric and begin to change people’s minds and expose them to Gods true hope for us as humans on Earth, which is clearly not telling women they are inferior and subject to men.

I will leave it at this and I just hope that people can re-read this and see that I only wanted to expose the truth. I felt attacked a little and may have responded a little harshly but I do not regret that. This is a topic that cannot be brushed under the rug. Peace to all and I hope positive changes will begin to happen!

09-07-2012, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Fact 7. Until men, in the LC or ex-LC members begin to acknowledge this and furthermore begin to call out these abuses and do something about it, it will continue to happen as women are given no respect amongst the church and on top of that thought to be the only cause of heresies. This is a burden on your shoulders now and you can choose to do something about it or not. God WILL judge you not only on what you do in this life, but what you choose not to do.

1. I would like more detail on this point. I am a former LC member, I am a male. I agree that we are judged by God, not only for what we do but also for what we choose not to do. However, how do I "acknowledge this" when prior to your post I was not aware of it?

Also, how do I "call out these abuses"?

Surely I would have to be very clear of the facts before I "called out an abuse" otherwise I could make false accusations which are equally heinous and abusive.

As a former member of the LC that was disturbed by a pattern of abuse which I am aware of I would certainly be willing to "shoulder this burden". But to do so I would have to be certain of the facts.

alwayslearning · 09-06-2012, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered

As stated in the beginning of this thread, WN was a sexual deviant. This was followed by sexual abuses by WL and his family. These are facts. You cannot deny this...none of this can be absolutely proven

Sensible people when presented with new information about a deceased figure do not immediately accept it as undeniable facts even though it cannot be absolutely proven. To expect that response from those in this forum is unreasonable. However to expect open discussion and acceptance that the new (to us) claims regarding Watchman Nee are within the real of possibility is reasonable and that is what is happening. I, for one, am thankful new documentation is coming out regarding Watchman Nee so we have more to work with when we piece his life and work together because I know Witness Lee's and LSM's version of events if fractionally true at all are self-serving.

Regarding Witness Lee in this and other forums disgust and outrage has been expressed at the abusive behavior of his son towards women and the cover up of this abuse by Witness Lee, coworkers and elders for decades. When this finally exploded publicly due to the efforts of the family of his latest female victim it resulted in a major division in The Church in Anaheim and most LCs in Europe formally in writing disassociated themselves from LSM where this particular son was the General Manager and considered to be Witness Lee's "top coworker". Shortly thereafter John Ingalls wrote a book titled: Speaking the Truth in Love which addresses these events in some detail. Needless to say Witness Lee and the LSM immediately started a smear campaign against the "rebellious lepers" who are full of ambition and are running a conspiracy against his ministry causing him and his family to suffer so much, etc...you know the drill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I challenge all of you to address the issues of gross sexual abuse surounding the LC in current times.

As this forum is mostly former members we would not be aware of what is happening currently in the LC and therefore could not comment on it with any accuracy. But if it is anything like the past IMHO sisters/ladies/women are treated like second class citizens.

In this context it should also be remembered (and it has been discussed many times in this forum) that Witness Lee abused and mistreated anybody that disagreed with him - male or female. He was an equal opportunity abuser.

aron · 09-08-2012, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shattered

God demands us to grow, become stronger and allow the Holy Spirit to communicate to us a message that continues to become closer to the true word of God. When reading the bible, you hardly take everything verbatim, so why choose the parts that keep women down?

Dear Shattered,

You are on to something. I would encourage you to keep going. The Spirit will guide you into all the reality. Some may shrink back at having the word of God speak to them. They prefer the safety of "the interpreted Word". I spent years relying on the interpreted word. But I was in the kingdom of the blind, being led by the blind. Eventually I began to see. Even today it is dim, and faint, but I continue to struggle, and refuse to give up. God will reward those "violent" ones who struggle, Jacob-like, for the blessing.

Not everyone will see what you see. Just be patient, as God has been with you. Be merciful and God will be merciful to you. Receive those whom God has received in Christ Jesus. God will have a way. He is bigger than all of us. Remember the name of Jesus, and He will heal, restore, teach, and guide us, and set us all free.

Cal · 09-08-2012, 08:53 PM

Dear Shattered,

It is clear from your last two (unpublished) posts that this forum is not an appropriate place for you. Although you've been warned, you continue to play the victim and to try to make anyone who doesn't agree with you out to be some kind of attacker, coward or sexual abuse sympathizer. Added to that you continue to deny you've attacked people here when anyone who can read can see you have.

In your latest post you claimed to be concerned that a moderator here might have intended to hurt you physically. That idea, of course, is utterly absurd, and any rational person should have known that. So the fact that you thought it, let alone wrote about it, shows you to be someone who either is out-of-touch with reality or who will shamelessly play the victim at any cost. Neither tendency is welcome here.

Your posts will no longer be approved. Nor will you be allowed to become a full poster.

We are all very sorry that you experienced sexual abuse, if indeed you did. But this forum is also not the appropriate place to work that out. Regardless, we wish you well, and pray the Lord gives you healing in all aspects.

09-06-2012, 12:26 AM	#1
Unregistered Guest Posts: n/a	Posts Related to the Poster Shattered As I have started to read the many threads found on this website, the first thing that stands out as a women, is the inability for current or even past LC members to even acknowledge the abuse of women found in this cult started by WN. Not one person has been able to even address the theme of spiritual abuse started with WN in this thread. I understand, as fellow women survivors have told me, that getting any recognition of this will be near impossible from any male current, or ex-LC member. The guilt of what you have done, and promoted is far too much for you to even acknowledge. Of the three closest families growing up in the LC to me, all six daughters have been abused. Despite this, I cannot be made silent. Everyone in this forum must acknowledge what the ideology of this cult does to women across this globe or I promise you, God will judge you. I doubt the first person Jesus presented his resurrected self to would be someone he judged as inferior. “Mark 16:9: Now after He had risen early on the first day of the week, He first appeared to Mary Magdalene, from whom He had cast out seven demons.” As stated in the beginning of this thread, WN was a sexual deviant. This was followed by sexual abuses by WL and his family. These are facts. You cannot deny this. This is clearly to those outside of this cult, 99% of the educated world, a horrific example of men using fear, God and eternal damnation as a means to empower themselves and selfishly live a life abusing their families as a personal means to save themselves from a false God. While I know none of you will admit or acknowledge any of this, I know the words you are currently reading may plant the seed of “Dis-Brainwashing”, if I may make up a term. While you all can nit-pick at the historical veracity of events, which will never end, because none of this can be absolutely proven, much like the bible. I hope that your tenacity at denying reality and nit picking absurd details helps you find Truth and God, truly. All of you need to pray about what is CURRENTLY happening in the church and how it all started with monsters like WN and WL. Look at your life around you, enter the world, and see what monsters the LC and Satan himself have created. Again, I will ask, who here will address the theme of sexual and spiritual abuse started by WN? Discussing the veracity of published documents will lead you nowhere. Instead, I challenge all of you to address the issues of gross sexual abuse surounding the LC in current times.

09-06-2012, 12:35 PM	#5
Cal Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: USA Posts: 4,333	Re: New Book Challenges Nee's Legacy Dear Guest, It's pretty clear you carry a lot of resentment and anger. It may be justified, but we are not your enemies here. Why would be be running and participating on a forum such as this if we wanted to hide the offenses of the LC? Of course we are open to evidence. Rather than rebuke us for being in denial (how can one be in denial of something one has barely heard of?) why don't you educate us on the facts? It sounds like you are Asian. Is that where this subjugation you have witnessed happens? We are mostly from America. Besides the actions of Lee's sons and a few isolated incidents, we do not know of sexual abuse in the American LCs. Do you know of any? Have you been abused yourself? This forum can be anonymous. There is no need for public exposure of identity. When you speak of RAPE, are you referring to gross rape, or are you referring to husbands who expect their wives to have sex whether the wife feels like it or not, and to generally be at their beckon call? You must clarify. It does you nor your cause any good to speak generalities and accuse people you don't even know of things you are not certain of. Like I said, we are not the enemy. Relax, take a breath and tell us some specific facts as calmly as you can muster. We need facts, not arm waving.

09-06-2012, 02:00 PM	#7
Unregistered Guest Posts: n/a	Re: New Book Challenges Nee's Legacy Fact 1. I am an Asian American from California. Fact 2. Rape is rape. No means no. There is no "level" of rape. You're better than that thinking Igzy. Fact 2. I was raped outside of the church, but felt that it was my fault and there was nothing I could do about it because of the rhetoric of "Women are inferior" and "You were asking for it" told to me as a child. I kept it as a secret for many years and I had no one to talk to. Fact 3. Not only was I raped, but many of the girls I grew up with in the church were. Some by LC members and some outside of it because of how we were made to feel. Elders in our church in California knew of some of the rapes, and still did literally nothing and told the victims to not talk about it. The men who raped these girls were never reprimanded and were continued to be allowed around women, even their victims. Fact 4. None of us victims ever talked about it, or told anyone until we all started sharing and it was shocking, even to us how common it was and still no one knew or talked about it. Fact 5. In a seperate instance to my rapes, at a church function, I was molested by a LC member as a young girl. An elder found out. I was reprimanded for the way I dressed and told "I was asking for it". The male was never even told not to do that again. This is not only my experience, but almost across the board for young women in the church us survivors are finding out the more we talk about it. Fact 6. The history of sexual abuse, victim blaming and covering up and not talking about things, I thought started with WL. Apparently it started with pornographic materials made by WN. Fact 7. Until men, in the LC or ex-LC members begin to acknowledge this and furthermore begin to call out these abuses and do something about it, it will continue to happen as women are given no respect amongst the church and on top of that thought to be the only cause of heresies. This is a burden on your shoulders now and you can choose to do something about it or not. God WILL judge you not only on what you do in this life, but what you choose not to do. There is much more, but if these facts cannot move you to do something, nothing will. I am not trying to sound angry, only simple, plain and direct and am sorry for that miscommunication via text. I also am incredibly sorry that the LC has made it so hard for many ex members to acknowledge reality. An excellent wife, who can find ? For her worth is far above jewels. Proverbs 31:10 OHIO, using abusive language in this context is not Reviling. These are abusive topics and I will not coat it with flowery language or dumb it down to make it easier for you to read. The feelings you have right now of telling ME to be careful are just you projecting your own guilt onto me. Shame on you. You still, have not answered any question I have asked. I take your silence as a "yes, I do believe that women are inferior and weaker than men". If you didn’t believe in this horrific model of life, you would jump at the opportunity to defend yourself.

09-06-2012, 02:30 PM	#8
Cal Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: USA Posts: 4,333	Re: New Book Challenges Nee's Legacy Let me see if I can sum up what I'm hearing by reading between the lines: You are a former member of the LC and a victim of rape and sexual abuse. You were not raped by anyone in the LC, but by someone outside the LC. You were molested by an older LC man, but were blamed for it yourself. He was not disciplined. You feel the attitude toward women in the LC causes the men in the LC to have little sympathy for sexually abused women. This in turn causes the abused women further psychological damage. You have spoken with other women that were molested in the LC. However, you don't know for sure of any other LC woman who were actually raped by an LC man, other than thinking that LC husbands probably force themselves on their wives because you believe they are probably jerks anyway. Am I on the right track? It's very serious to accuse people of rape. I've very sorry you experienced the things you did. But that doesn't give you the right to accuse men randomly and generally. You need to be specific. Do you know firsthand of any LC woman or girl who was raped by an LC man?

09-06-2012, 06:35 PM	#10
Unregistered Guest Posts: n/a	Re: New Book Challenges Nee's Legacy IGZY This is frankly shocking. I did not expect to come on here and receive the responses I have. I am not trying to sound like I am attacking, and am sorry for that miscommunication. I never directly accused anyone of anything. I did quote Chuck and his published documents as a means to start somewhere concerning the hurtful rhetoric perpetuated in the church. I have said though, that the burden of guilt should be shared by all those who have been in the church and furthered this rhetoric. That includes me, for many years I too spread the messages of hate for women, as a woman! How brainwashed was I! I have dealt with this guilt and am starting to wash myself clean by trying to actually do something about it, and hope you find that motivation one day too. Self-righteous outburst? That is one way to call a rape victim who is only plainly and simply describing factual events in an attempt to make this a better world. It is funny you say that because many of us victims felt like WE were the ones who were wrong and deserved to be raped, hardly self-righteous! I still am overcoming an incredible amount of shame, self-hate and a fear of men. I do use strong language perhaps, but this is serious stuff and needs to be spoken about directly, especially because we all have been in a culture of silence and ignoring the physical world around us for a long time, some maybe even currently. I also was shocked at how you described rape and molestation and while I am sure you think they are horrible and all the same, it did not come across that way. I truly do not think I am better than anyone. I just want people to acknowledge this, which has been much harder than I ever thought. I realize now that this has done little to help and perhaps only separated us even more, and if that’s the case, I am horribly regretful. I hope there will be a day when we can all share in the happiness and joy of helping even just one girl or boy escape this cult. Alwayslearning As far as what to do, that is a great question. I don’t know. Because of the nature of these crimes and the nature of this cult, it is hard for these women and me to come public about it. The shaming and victim blaming, even found on this forum would be gigantic if charges were pressed and may hurt us even more. I am currently in a cult specialist therapy program and working with specialists at Stanford and I hope I myself can bring charges forth, but that will have to be on my own time. This is incredibly hard to deal with and has left many of us victims “paralyzed”. As far as parents in the LC dealing with this, well I think we all know that will never happened, and as I have cited earlier, some parents have known about rapes and they only told the victim to keep quiet and act like it never happened. As far as men, I just hope that they can begin by taking small steps and begin to dismantle this rhetoric and begin to change people’s minds and expose them to Gods true hope for us as humans on Earth, which is clearly not telling women they are inferior and subject to men. I will leave it at this and I just hope that people can re-read this and see that I only wanted to expose the truth. I felt attacked a little and may have responded a little harshly but I do not regret that. This is a topic that cannot be brushed under the rug. Peace to all and I hope positive changes will begin to happen!

09-08-2012, 08:53 PM	#14
Cal Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: USA Posts: 4,333	Re: New Book Challenges Nee's Legacy Dear Shattered, It is clear from your last two (unpublished) posts that this forum is not an appropriate place for you. Although you've been warned, you continue to play the victim and to try to make anyone who doesn't agree with you out to be some kind of attacker, coward or sexual abuse sympathizer. Added to that you continue to deny you've attacked people here when anyone who can read can see you have. In your latest post you claimed to be concerned that a moderator here might have intended to hurt you physically. That idea, of course, is utterly absurd, and any rational person should have known that. So the fact that you thought it, let alone wrote about it, shows you to be someone who either is out-of-touch with reality or who will shamelessly play the victim at any cost. Neither tendency is welcome here. Your posts will no longer be approved. Nor will you be allowed to become a full poster. We are all very sorry that you experienced sexual abuse, if indeed you did. But this forum is also not the appropriate place to work that out. Regardless, we wish you well, and pray the Lord gives you healing in all aspects.