Definition of "The Lord´s Recovery"

[Raptor]

For some "The Lord´s Recovery" is God´s up to date move to recover lost Biblical truths and practices in order to build up the church and bring Christ back, .... for others the Recovery is a cult, cult, cult and a cult. And then there is everything in between.

Nobody is going to define it 100% correctly, we all have different backgrounds, experiences, and understandings. Even our own definition might change with time.

My definition now is,

The Recovery is a religious organization centered around the person and teachings of Witness Lee composed of a mixture of scriptural and enlightening teachings and practices about the christian faith, the purpose of human life and the overall meaning of the Bible, mixed with unscriptural and cultish teachings and practices that have the potential to cause severe spiritual, psychological, physical, and financial damage to its members.

What is your definition?

[Jo S]

Baptist Christian minister, Walter Martin, I believe describes the Local Churches quite well in this exerpt;

Cult expert Walter Martin was a master in understanding ‘cultspeak’, warning people to realize there is a language barrier between Christians and cultists. He stated,

“The average non-Christian cult owes its very existence to the fact that it has utilized the terminology of Christianity, has borrowed liberally from the Bible (almost always out of context), and sprinkled its format with evangelical cliches and terms wherever possible or advantageous. Up to now this has been a highly successful attempt to represent their respective systems of thought as “Christian.””


Because of stigma and the view of the term "cult" as being a slur, I personally hesitate using it to describe the Local Churches.

My definition is this: the Lord's Recovery is a group centered around a culture veiled in biblical Christianity that was given rise to by Watchman Nee and Witness Lee through their eclectic collection and implementation of eastern mystic and Pentecostal charismatic thought leading to a what I would describe as a religious movement spreading a "false gospel".

This may offend some so I apologize in advance but I'll also add that I often hear about the "glory days" within the Local Churches. While I do believe sincere and caring Christians fall into the Local Churches I don't believe the Lord's Recovery was ever a genuine move of God, not even in the beginning. I say that now knowing their effectiveness in executing mysticism or mind emptying and dissociative practices that give the individual a temporary and fleeting sense of wellbeing from their personal issues and a tight knit community centered around special "revelation" to help give reinforcement. This is where I believe the initial sense of enthusiasm stemmed from.

Harsh, I know, but in the spirit or transparency there you go...

I'll finish by saying that the Local Churches, on the surface, got so many things right like a sense of community, home meetings, strong (often times too strong) emphasis of many good Christian values but their fatal flaw was putting men and their own unique visions in the place of Jesus Christ and his revelation.

[ZNPaaneah]

Can you define "genuine move of God"?

[Jo S]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Can you define "genuine move of God"?

A movement initiated by God through the Holy Spirit.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Jo S

A movement initiated by God through the Holy Spirit.

So you are saying there are movements that are not initiated by God? How do you reconcile that with "all things came into being through Him and apart from Him nothing exists that exists"? Also, how do you reconcile this with "all things work together for good to those that love God and are called according to purpose"? Could that really happen if the Holy Spirit was not in all things and working in all things?

[Jo S]

ZNP, I don't want to get too far off topic but to me it's very simple. I look to scripture and see that there is no new revelation to be given to the church after Christ's revelation to John (Rev 22:18). The driving force behind the Lord's Recovery has been from the beginning extra-biblical special revelation of "one church one city". The Holy Spirit wouldn't contradict God's Word. That's not to say behind the scenes the Lord wasn't been working on the hearts and minds of Christians within the Recovery.

[Jo S]

Originally Posted by awareness

But if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck it should be called a duck.

Ok, you can continue calling it a duck. I'll keep calling it waterfowl.

[HERn]

Originally Posted by Jo S

Ok, you can continue calling it a duck. I'll keep calling it waterfowl.

Speaking of waterfowl, has anyone heard from Drake? My take is that both Drake and Evangelical were given release time from their other LSM/DCP work to mess with our heads here. They fought a good fight, but I guess their hearts were not in it (even though their minds were!).

[Jo S]

Originally Posted by HERn

Speaking of waterfowl, has anyone heard from Drake? My take is that both Drake and Evangelical were given release time from their other LSM/DCP work to mess with our heads here. They fought a good fight, but I guess their hearts were not in it (even though their minds were!).

I too was wondering what happened to Evangelical. Him and I used to get into it quite a bit. Is it too wishful to think that maybe the Lord has been working on their hearts?

[Trapped]

Definition of the Lord's Recovery: human history.

Trapped

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Trapped

Definition of the Lord's Recovery: human history.

simple yet all inclusive

Jesus is Lord

[Jo S]

Originally Posted by Trapped

Definition of the Lord's Recovery: human history.

Playing it safe. Funny . In hindsight, I probably should've taken your approach.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Raptor

The Recovery is a religious organization centered around the person and teachings of Witness Lee composed of a mixture of scriptural and enlightening teachings and practices about the christian faith, the purpose of human life and the overall meaning of the Bible, mixed with unscriptural and cultish teachings and practices that have the potential to cause severe spiritual, psychological, physical, and financial damage to its members.

Not sure what my own definition is yet, but I found this one more than interesting. At first I was reminded of James' words (Chap 3):

But no one can tame the tongue; it is a restless evil and full of deadly poison. with it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in the likeness of God; from the same mouth come both blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not to be this way. Does a fountain send out from the same opening both fresh and bitter water?

It seems quite obvious that every curse issued from the LSM podiums has come true concerning them. They have been cursed with all the curses they spoke about others. Is not the Recovery, like Judaism of old, filled with unresolvable contradictions?

When I left the LC, and found this forum, a nagging question haunted me: "How could something so good become so bad?" Cursing others was a huge contributor. How they need the book of James!

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Ohio

When I left the LC, and found this forum, a nagging question haunted me: "How could something so good become so bad?"

When I read the originating post definition, my mind went to a similar place. I do believe that early on there was a real move of God with the LC.

As I visit other groups, like this weekend, I am reminded that most still do not have any knowledge of various things those in the LC saw early on - these include: the work of the indwelling Christ; our human spirit that is subject to us (and indwelt by Him); and a seeing of the whole clergy/laity for what it is and the immense benefit of practicing open meetings.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

When I read the originating post definition, my mind went to a similar place. I do believe that early on there was a real move of God with the LC.

The move of God, the so-called "Jesus People Movement" of the late 60's and early 70's, was definitely a real move of God's Spirit in the USA. It was never confined to the Recovery. It was far bigger than that. All Christians were affected in some way. And yes the Recovery benefited from God's move.

The greatest hoax ever inflicted upon the Recovery was that God's move was limited to them, and that God's move was due to Lee's ministry.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The move of God, the so-called "Jesus People Movement" of the late 60's and early 70's, was definitely a real move of God's Spirit in the USA. It was never confined to the Recovery. It was far bigger than that. All Christians were affected in some way. And yes the Recovery benefited from God's move.

The greatest hoax ever inflicted upon the Recovery was that God's move was limited to them, and that God's move was due to Lee's ministry.

Yes, agreed!

[Jo S]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

When I read the originating post definition, my mind went to a similar place. I do believe that early on there was a real move of God with the LC.

Originally Posted by Ohio

When I left the LC, and found this forum, a nagging question haunted me: "How could something so good become so bad?"

StG, I assume you're referring to my post. So I'll respond and leave with this;

I see others on the board struggling with the same question that Ohio posed; "How could something so good become so bad?".

Watchman Nee's vision that gave birth to this movement through the doctrine or ground of locality, in my view, wasn't based on God's truth.

If it's true that the sole identity of the Lord's Recovery was founded upon and rooted in a lie, how could this movement ever be considered to have been something good?

But if you maintain your position that the Lord's Recovery was good in the beginning, you would have to agree with Nee's vision. And since God doesn't lie or contradict His Word, in order for the LC's to have been a genuine move of the Holy Spirit, God too would have had to agree that all Christians need to gather in one location within every city under one minister. Yet what I see in God's revelation is Jesus Christ gathering his entire church into only one city, the New Jerusalem.

You just can't have it both ways.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Cursing others was a huge contributor. How they need the book of James!

There's no doubt in my mind that the epithets we sat under - "Poor, poor Christianity... too poor!" - affected our ability to grapple with the darkness that followed. We sat there and passively watched Witness Lee burn our bridges of escape.

Years later, looking back, I can begin to sense the cleverness and the keeping power of his system. It's quite impressive, really. We heard serial logical contradictions and kept going. We allowed the Bible to be suborned and dismissed, and we kept on. We saw unrighteousness and we continued. Our consciences protested, and still we kept going. Amazing, really.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by aron

There's no doubt in my mind that the epithets we sat under - "Poor, poor Christianity... too poor!" - affected our ability to grapple with the darkness that followed. We sat there and passively watched Witness Lee burn our bridges of escape.

Years later, looking back, I can begin to sense the cleverness and the keeping power of his system. It's quite impressive, really. We heard serial logical contradictions and kept going. We allowed the Bible to be suborned and dismissed, and we kept on. We saw unrighteousness and we continued. Our consciences protested, and still we kept going. Amazing, really.

I trusted the elders over me, those who supposedly "watched over my soul, and will give an account." (Heb 13.17)