[Curious]

Originally Posted by aron

I think this is one of the more valuable essays on the whole forum. Usually those who realise that the LC message departs from the Christian gospel and reject it, remain 'outsiders' and go off. They don't tell what was wrong, but simply leave. They sense that something isn't right and run away - "My sheep know my voice".

Those who do write about the experience often do so after a long process of indoctrination, years of 24/7 immersion, the subsequent trauma of leaving/separation, and the long unpacking afterward. So the freshness of the moment of getting sucked in is often lost, with its nuances and dynamics. It's often done with subtlety else it wouldn't catch so many unawares. As Curious says, It's a shock to see how deeply (and quickly) they get into your head.

This post reveals something of that process in real time, with the attraction and enjoyment on the one hand, and the concomitant hardening toward fellow members of the Christian faith on the other. The process is insidious and one usually doesn't appreciate it sufficiently, and objectively analyse it, and in a whirl of emotions gets 'caught' in the 'LC sheep pen'. In the LC it's all about 'enjoyment' until one day the 'enjoyment' is gone, and the minister blames you because you weren't rabid enough for the cause.

This poster was able to step back and see the LC gambit for what it is: it's not a ministry of reconciliation (2 Cor 5) but a ministry of estrangement (judgment, hostility, antagonism). That hardening towards 'others' allows LC members to be manipulated and controlled by the handlers: "If you don't do what we say, the Boogeyman will get you." One often fails to appreciate this sufficiently at the outset, but only when it's too late, when they're already 'in', at the endgame. They're now in The Church and can't go back to Mystery Babylon. The walls are up and the doors are locked.

Typically the 'outsiders' walk away silently, and the 'insiders' suffer silently. This post is an example of the kind of opening to dialogue that can release many.

Responding to aron’s post I’m thinking to relate some more incidents from my experiences fellowshipping with a group from the LC….

At first encounter, I looked them up on the internet. The lovely CRC article came up, reassuring me of their earlier mistake in misjudging the LC and what a great bunch of Christians they are, albeit with some Chinese cultural quirks. I relaxed internally and trusted this article.

As I then proceeded to accept their invitation to meet regularly, for a shared meal and study, the story of the Exodus was presented. They didn’t explain the life-study notes s such, but we based our study on them, not the bible directly.

I did pick up a feeling that they were hinting that I needed to leave my regular church and join them as the outworking of ‘exodus’ in my life. But it was subtle and there was nothing tangeable, just a feeling hanging in the air. I noticed this but not in a concerned way. I knew when my own ‘exodus’ had been and they weren’t about to be able to rewrite that for me so I wasn’t concerned.

During the study, we looked at the manna. I really liked the analogies of the manna, its characteristics and how they can be likened to God’s character. After covering them all we had some discussion. My hosts seemed very satisfied with some criticism about Pentecostals (from the text on the ‘smallness’ of the manna), and they hooked on to the idea of ‘where are they (the Pentecostals) now?’ they repeated this idea amongst themselves several times. As though Pentecostals are all lost and gone nowadays. I thought to myself, ‘how would you know where they are? If you didn’t know any Pentecostals before now, how would you know where they are today?’ it was a doubt-casting commentary without any substance, I thought. When it came my turn to speak, I talked about how it was like bdellium, transparent, with nothing to hide. That had impressed me favourably. Now as I Look back on that study, there is a lot more criticism of Christianity there. I can’t remember that being in our notes in these meetings, oddly.

Next study topic: they asked me what I wished to study, offering me the choice of direction, it would seem. I said David or the psalms. They decided to start at the beginning of the story of David which starts with the story of Samuel. Giving me the reason it’s good to be thorough and start at the beginning of the book. So we looked at the life-study of Eli and Samuel. They taught that Samuel’s role marked the shift from the first system of worship through the tribe of Levi, to the kingship system, that the Levitical system was ‘degraded and apostate’ through Eli and his sons, and God was changing it. (Actually, the Levitical system was not abandoned by having kings, it continued on so that was not true, what they taught). Anyway, I got the clear impression again that they felt WN and WL were somehow restarting things like Samuel, abandoning a failed system, and regular Christianity was that system today that God has abandoned. I just felt it again. But they were all still friendly and I had not experienced a Christian group before that rejects Christianity outside of themselves so I was not alarmed yet.

It turns out that they weren’t intending to get to the story of David and the psalms, as they dropped that area after we finished with Eli and his sons, and did something else completely.

Now I’m going to jump to the end of my time with them. When it became clear that I had decided to detach from them, there was a short period of lowering the boom and going for the dressing down of my character in ways completely uncalled for. As I had already predicted this would happen next, (alerted by my reading of ‘The Subtle Power Of Spiritual Abuse’), I confused this effort by seeming to not even notice they were meaning this in a critical way, like it had gone right over my head. ( I was especially non-volatile as I was very concerned for the mental stability of a member who demonstrated very unstable behavior.)

Then I watched the following. One of them picked up their phone, and as a deliberate visual enactment, pretended to be looking something up and distracted by it. Then they mentioned a caution about looking things up on the internet. This was a perfectly clear example of the seeking to influence one’s behaviour by indirect but very directional means. This person was, in fact, far more involved in using their phone and the internet than I was, so I felt puzzled by it….until I found this site some months later.

I spent my research time looking up ‘Witness Lee on… (such and such)’ for a long time and developed my impressions of what is distorted about the ministry from that plus John Meyers book. Foolishly I thought ‘Local Church Discussions’ might be there to promote the LC so I didn’t take any notice of it for a while. Only I should’ve realised that the title is an oxy-moron, a contradiction in terms in itself, the Local Church itself doesn’t actually DO discussions, they just tell you how it is and advise you to submit!! (Therefore the logic is, ‘LC discussions’ MUST be a commentary that exists outside of the organisation itself!..I got that in the end!)

That is part of my experience. I hope it may be interesting and helpful to others to read. I may tell more of that journey if it seems relevant to others.