Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah
No, The Bible begins by saying God is the creator, all things came into being through Him.
16 for in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him;
Now it is generally recognized by Bible expositors that the "thrones or dominions or principalities or powers" includes Satan, Hitler, Nero, and Stalin.
Likewise, I am not the one that says man has a free will, this is Bible 101. I am not aware of any fundamental teacher of the Bible that does not teach that God gave man a free will.
Since God, by definition is omnipotent and omniscient, that means everything that has happened has occurred under His authority and He was able to foresee it. Just read the book of Job if you have trouble with that. But since everyone has trouble with this I call it a mystery. You can google "the problem of evil" which is another name for this mystery.
Or as you so eloquently encapsulate the mystery "Can a loving God create Hitler?" If not are you saying there are two creators? Now that is idolatry and a heresy.
If it sounds impersonal and pantheistic you obviously are not hearing me clearly. I am simply embracing the word in John "In the beginning was the word..."
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I don't know who those expositors you are referring to are but I would have to disagree with them. Scripture says God is good as is everything God created, it was good. That included all the ministering angels in Heaven before Satan sinned.
Satan, Hitler, and Stalin are not good therefore are not of God. It's not a mystery at all.
"thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers" (Col. 1:16 KJV) is an over generalization and not specific to persons which leads me to conclude that God created the offices of lordship. It doesn't mean He created all those in past and future that will fill every role of lordship.
Speaking of omniscience and omnipotence, if God is all powerful doesn't that also imply He has the power to restrict Himself if he chooses? Isn't that what allows free-will to exist in the first place?... so God doesn't control every aspect of our lives and simply have us exist as automatons?
In Job, if God was all knowing all the time why does He appoint Satan as the accuser? Is it for God's entertainment that Satan runs back and forth between earth and God's throne? Or does God choose to restrict Himself for the sake of our free-will?
Isn't that part of the reason why people love the college experience? Because of the sense of freedom? Yet even though our parents are no longer looking over our shoulder in everything that we do, they first prepared us by instilling us with good values and then after we were on our own offered us a way to reach them even over long distances (phone, mail, internet, ect).
God is the same way, out of love and trust He allows that space so we don't feel smothered and controlled all the time. If we willingly allow Him in, He will always be there. if we don't, He will restrict Himself yet He left us with a conscience and a way to always reach Him if we choose. That of course being His son Jesus.
On the matter of two creators saying that humans can create a laptop, for instance, out of free-will isn't saying we are equal to God in that we can create life and matter from nothingness. It just means we can manipulate what's already available to us. But because we invent something out of raw materials originally created by God, doesn't mean God was responsible for the end result.
By saying God created all that is Hitler is saying that God created darkness. Darkness isn't something that was intentionally created by God, it's merely the absence of light. God created only the light (which was good) and then separated the light (which resulted in darkness). He did not create the darkness. Darkness is an absence and void.
Satan, Hitler, and Stalin partook of that darkness out of free-will. But because they did so, did not mean God was responsible for the result of their choices.
Saying God created all things past and future is saying that He created cancer, death, rape, and all other vile things. God has knowledge of the results of darkness and sin but those things were never a part of His heart, His mind, and His Word.
Finally to sum up the matter of free will, I see it as a marathon race. God has a birds-eye view of the entire race beginning to end. He can see the starting point and the finish line. He also established ahead of time 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place finishes. Yet whatever happens in the middle and whomever eventually fills those positions is up to the individual and the free-will He grants them.