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Originally Posted by For science
These can be obtained non-pharmaceutically by chanting (seems to be employed by Lee churches, but otherwise common in eastern religions), meditating, breath control etc; and while people don't assume supernatural causation when they deliberately attain it by chemical help, they strongly assume divine causation when it is incidental.
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Most Westerners know no better and would make these ridiculous claims that prayer in the recovery is chanting - listen, many members in the recovery come from Eastern background, SE Asian, Indian, Taiwanese, Japanese - they know what chanting is from their cultures. There is no comparison between Eastern chanting and chanting in the recovery. A side by side comparison would be able to tell the difference.
In contrast, those in Western Christianity don't know the difference between European paganism (Christmas etc) and Judaism. Equally, anyone could say that Trump's podium speeches referencing "God" in them are just like the prayers of Pope Francis, or the speeches of the KKK or Hitler are just like the Evening Prayer in the Sistine Chapel. That's why your comparisons are just as stupid.
If you want a more eye-opening view of how even Western Christianity is mixed with Eastern religions and paganism, start with the book "pagan Christianity" by Viola and Barna, and leave the prayers of the local church alone.
Do you have any first-hand experience of calling upon the Lord Jesus?
If not, then I would encourage you to try it, for 5 minutes, 10 minutes, see how you feel afterwards. Do it "for science"
