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Originally Posted by Evangelical
ZNPaaneah, to get to the heart of the matter, we should consider these questions:
What is Christianity?
Christianity is a religion comprising 20,000+ denominations.
Did God start Christianity? No, men did. Men start religions, God started His church. Good reference here is "Christ versus Religion - by Witness Lee".
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Witness Lee defines religion as anything that we do for God apart from God. I reject this definition as not Biblical. It is very clear from the fellowship of the Apostles that this is not a valid definition.
So, no, I disagree with your assertion. Prove it from the fellowship of the Apostles. Witness Lee's books can be referenced by you all you wish, but the ultimate authority in my opinion, and Witness Lee's opinion, is the fellowship of the apostles.
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Originally Posted by Evangelical
What does degradation mean?
Degradation basically means not normal. Watchman Nee wrote what is a normal church in his normal church life books.
A degraded system -referring mostly to the organized hierarchical church.
clergy/laity distinctions, cathedrals etc.
Does a church have to build a cathedral and have a priest to be degraded? No - any church which has one church leader and no functioning members is essentially degraded.
Degradation means loss of function. If your body's arm stops working you could say the arm is degraded, it cannot function as an arm. The same with the body of Christ.
Degraded Christianity locked up the Bible for hundreds of years, and was released through Luther and others.
Lee holds a view that the church become degraded from the second century.
Is it true?
History would say yes. The degraded system was in place for hundreds of years soon after Constantine made Christianity a state religion.
Is Christianity degraded today?
If we include Roman Catholicism in Christianity, the answer is an obvious yes.
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Once again, you can reference Watchman Nee books if you please, but I will only acknowledge the authority of the apostle's fellowship on this topic.
I find the reference to "hierarchical" and "organized" idiotic. The New Testament provides a lot of discussion on the organization of the church. The idea that "hierarchical" is equivalent to "degraded" is based on a very poor assumption that the term "nicolaitan" refers to a hierarchy that stifles the function of the members of the Body. That is a very poor and self serving example of biblical interpretation. No verse is of its own interpretation, particularly when you have an undefined term that you define a certain way because that is what you want it to mean. Even the term "the body of Christ" implies organization. Our body is highly organized. All life forms are organized. I consider Witness Lee's use of this to be very hypocritical. He condemns all Christian organizations as being "organized" hence degraded. Yet he himself was the head of a very big organization and he put his profligate son in charge of a Christian ministry even though he was well aware of how degraded he was. He condemned seminary and then set up his own seminary. His condemnation was merely self justification.
I also find the term "not normal" to be "not useful". The record in the New Testament is very clear, what we see in all forms of Christian meetings is in fact what has been accurately described with great detail in the New Testament. Therefore it is "typical", it is "expected", it is "anticipated", and it appears to be "necessary". Is it normal for a child to get measles or mumps? It is typical, it is common, and it may be necessary to develop immunity either by getting the childhood disease or by getting a vaccination. But the word "normal" may not apply. Therefore I feel this term is not helpful in understanding this issue.
What you refer to as "degraded Christianity" I see as something that Christians need to experience and overcome to grow into full maturity. You cannot overcome these things if you do not experience them, just as you cannot develop immunity to the mumps unless you experience it, either by being exposed to the disease or to a vaccine. In my understanding the reference to "false prophets", "heresies", "false teachers", all refer to these necessary diseases that we must overcome. Jezebel and Balaam are examples. The teaching of the Nicolaitans is an example. The Judaizers were an example. James is an example of someone who was exposed to this disease, developed immunity to it, overcame it, and then his ministry was a vaccination for the Body of Christ.