Igzy,
Another great response -- left below. Thanks.
Yes, faith is a good thing, and there's nothing wrong with a statement of faith. As I think you pointed out, we can't live without faith of some kind.
But systems of faith is a different matter. I left the system of faith I grew up with. Then I joined the local church system of faith.
I've given up both.
This thread is about the miracle of the virgin birth of Jesus.
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
Once long ago I believed in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy. But I put away those childish things.
I remember back in the local church, all the way back to my c. in Detroit days, it came to me that the power of God wasn't with me like it was with those in the NT. It really bothered me. I felt like I was falling short of Jesus, and believed my heart wasn't given enough. So I prayed my guts out, literally, in that I developed a ball in my stomach over it. But I never developed the kind of miraculous powers I saw displayed by the actors in the NT.
And that's the problem with believing in the virgin birth. First, of course, like zeek has pointed out, is the biological improbability of it, but second is: where are those kinds of extraordinary miracles happening today?
It seems in the Bible that God was very busy back 2 and 3 thousand yrs ago. But since Jesus has gone on vacation -- seems -- those extraordinary miracles have ceased to be. God isn't moving like that any more. (I did once believe, in the LC, that the LC was God moving on the earth -- I gave up that "childish thing" too.)
Now if my prayers had been answered, and the same power of God that I see in scripture had been given to me, I would, of course, have a different approach and reception to fantastical stories in the Bible.
It's kind of like all the claims of UFOs. Okay, there's lots of reports, and even pictures, but as the cynic I am I won't believe in them until those proctologist's from outer space come and probe MY orifices, or if I actually see one with my own eyes, maybe.
I guess we modern's today tend to have given up "childish things" and have metaphorically given up on believing in Santa Claus, so to speak.
And that makes the virgin birth of Jesus a very hard pill to swallow.
Harold
Quote:
Originally Posted by Igzy
Harold,
I like to think my mind and heart are in sync. Anyway I would hope so. And what is wrong with a statement of faith? Faith is a good thing. Besides, all cynics are closet romantics, (especially you.) It isn't that they don't think there is something out there, it's that they've been disappointed so much that the only comfort and security they trust in is cynicism. I understand feeling that way, but not succumbing to it; certainly not crusading it.
And I have read a lot. I just am not impressed with the arguments such as the one you cite because they all avoid the elephant in the living room--that being that no one can explain where the character of Jesus came from.
See, here's the gist of my faith: No one can explain the existence of this character Jesus as a work of fiction. You can come up with all kinds of theories that he didn't exist or that he is partially or completely concocted. What you can't explain is who concocted him or how. Who thought him up? Who came up with the things he said? Who was his speech writer? Please don't compare him to Hamlet or Balder the Brave or Gandalf or Yoda or Mohammed or whomever. That would simply insult everyone's intelligence. But if you do, be prepared to lose, because no one compares to Jesus. He's in a class by himself.
My conclusion is either Jesus was from another place or his inventors were. But someone involved was not of this world. If he and they were of this world then we would have stories about all kinds of people like Jesus from all periods and cultures. Because if one group of people could invent him then another could too. But we don't see anyone else in history or fiction even approaching his wisdom, living and character. No one even close. That tells me he was someone very, very special. Note zeek, I'm not claiming at this juncture he must be the Son of God, so don't accuse me of false dilemmas.
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