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Koinonia

06-05-2016, 09:57 AM

This is one of the latest things in the LC now:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq1K_JXCtYw

It's so ridiculous that it's almost like a parody...

NewManLiving

06-05-2016, 10:50 AM

Freedom

06-05-2016, 11:05 AM

I'm not surprised. There is no Life left in the LSMLC - it's all scripted now. Any casual observer will immediately notice that the Lord Himself is not included in this rediculous scenario- just a bunch of LC nonsense

Scripted is right. And this video is just plain weird. I wonder how "new ones" would react if they knew the actual extend of just how 'scripted' their interactions really are.

Koinonia

06-05-2016, 12:14 PM

More:

Why is a commitment necessary and how to secure one?
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jBXVocTYyo)
Br Andrew Yu's Fellowship on home training
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjN8lyDlAdo)

TLFisher

06-06-2016, 12:39 PM

Scripted is right. And this video is just plain weird. I wonder how "new ones" would react if they knew the actual extend of just how 'scripted' their interactions really are.

What "new ones" may not know is the extent Lee is elevated. Not nearly as blatant as in years past, but in coded phrases only a regular LC member knows the interpretation.

The Ministry
The Apostle's Teaching
The New Testament Ministry

If a new one implied "Lee wasn't an apostle, but just another Christian writer", it would be as if pouring ice water upon the devoted LC attendees. "This one doesn't have the vision".

Ohio

06-06-2016, 03:40 PM

More:

Why is a commitment necessary and how to secure one?
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jBXVocTYyo)
Br Andrew Yu's Fellowship on home training
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjN8lyDlAdo)

More still:

I understand Brother Andrew can still play a nasty bagpipe. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRin3ywaEeg)

Freedom

06-06-2016, 06:52 PM

What "new ones" may not know is the extent Lee is elevated. Not nearly as blatant as in years past, but in coded phrases only a regular LC member knows the interpretation.

The Ministry
The Apostle's Teaching
The New Testament Ministry

If a new one implied "Lee wasn't an apostle, but just another Christian writer", it would be as if pouring ice water upon the devoted LC attendees. "This one doesn't have the vision".

What I see in some of these videos is an obsession with having a high level of control over 'molding' these new members/recruits into good LC material.

I guess that is somewhat necessary because of what they are attempting to do with these new members. If a new member were told outright that there is a 'MOTA' whose books are used exclusively, whose teaching is heralded as the "New Testament Ministry", people would likely run away fast. I think the goal is to produce a dependency on the system. Once someone is dependent, they are less likely to run away, even if bothered by what they see.

HERn

06-07-2016, 06:54 PM

What I see in some of these videos is an obsession with having a high level of control over 'molding' these new members/recruits into good LC material.

I guess that is somewhat necessary because of what they are attempting to do with these new members. If a new member were told outright that there is a 'MOTA' whose books are used exclusively, whose teaching is heralded as the "New Testament Ministry", people would likely run away fast. I think the goal is to produce a dependency on the system. Once someone is dependent, they are less likely to run away, even if bothered by what they see.

I wonder if the LC will follow the path of SDA who don't openly preach that they follow the teachings of Ellen White, but nonetheless use her writings as the basis of their eschatological doctrine? Why belong to a group where you need to hide who you follow?

Freedom

06-07-2016, 07:12 PM

I wonder if the LC will follow the path of SDA who don't openly preach that they follow the teachings of Ellen White, but nonetheless use her writings as the basis of their eschatological doctrine? Why belong to a group where you need to hide who you follow?

Speaking from my own experience, whenever we attempted to preach the gospel, there was always some amount of effort to 'hide' our connections.

On the campus, when inquired as to what churches we were associated with, we would tell people that we were "believers of various backgrounds". When I participated in BFA distributions, it was the same deal. People were obviously curious as to what the RcV was and what our relationship with the publisher was, but we just told them that we were volunteers for Bibles for America. I remember being specifically instructed to avoid answering the "what church do you attend?" question.

As Christians, the Bible instructs us to walk in the light. It really nauseates me to think that we made some amount of effort to obscure our true connections when making contact with the public. Telling the partial truth was commonplace, and even an occasional "white lie" was spoken. All for what? It wasn't about the gospel so much as it was attempting to bring WL to a broader audience.

HERn

06-07-2016, 07:32 PM

Freedom

06-07-2016, 07:57 PM

Just asking, who is WL that he should be brought to a broader audience? Can WL save us from our sins? Can WL sanctify us? Can WL satisfy our spiritual longings? WL created a sect of Christianity that excluded all who did not take his LSM publications.

I believe that many LC members are insecure about what they believe, at least with respect to WL’s ministry. When they succeed in proselytizing people, I think it serves as a much-needed ‘validation’ (only to them) of what they believe. This is how I always felt as a member.

TLFisher

06-08-2016, 01:16 PM

As Christians, the Bible instructs us to walk in the light. It really nauseates me to think that we made some amount of effort to obscure our true connections when making contact with the public. Telling the partial truth was commonplace, and even an occasional "white lie" was spoken. All for what? It wasn't about the gospel so much as it was attempting to bring WL to a broader audience.

Perhaps among the local churches, "the end justifies the means" however in practice telling "the partial truth was commonplace, and even an occasional "white lie" is no different than in the book of Acts what Ananias and Sapphira did. Or, I should ask, what is different?
I would argue something is being withheld.

NewManLiving

06-08-2016, 03:08 PM

If they really want to retain the new ones then they should minister Christ, but instead they minister "The Ministry" and all that goes with it namely: Witness Lee as the infallible MOTA

While this orchestrated and well polished script may be acceptable to other cultures, to your everyday American it smells like a cult and looks like a cult so it must be a cult.

The LSMLC needs to wake up and take Christ as their Life - not Witness Lee. If they lift up Christ then He will draw all men to Himself. How sad for such intelligent people to fall into a very common trap.

Ohio

06-08-2016, 05:44 PM

If they really want to retain the new ones then they should minister Christ, but instead they minister "The Ministry" and all that goes with it namely: Witness Lee as the infallible MOTA

Well said.

There was a time when Christ was ministered, so our Father brought some of His young children (like me) to the LC's to be cared for.

That's not happening much anymore, hence the gimmickry at LSM. How can they still talk about increase after watching their numbers decline for decades.

06-10-2016, 08:38 PM

More still:

I understand Brother Andrew can still play a nasty bagpipe. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRin3ywaEeg)

Hah! Kinda mournful. That's appropriate for my mood after listening to A.Y. Describe "how to get" people. Good description of what remains in TLR. "Getting people".

micah6v8

06-11-2016, 09:31 AM

Speaking from my own experience, whenever we attempted to preach the gospel, there was always some amount of effort to 'hide' our connections.

On the campus, when inquired as to what churches we were associated with, we would tell people that we were "believers of various backgrounds". When I participated in BFA distributions, it was the same deal. People were obviously curious as to what the RcV was and what our relationship with the publisher was, but we just told them that we were volunteers for Bibles for America. I remember being specifically instructed to avoid answering the "what church do you attend?" question.

As Christians, the Bible instructs us to walk in the light. It really nauseates me to think that we made some amount of effort to obscure our true connections when making contact with the public. Telling the partial truth was commonplace, and even an occasional "white lie" was spoken. All for what? It wasn't about the gospel so much as it was attempting to bring WL to a broader audience.

 Hi Freedom and HERN

The video links provided by Koinonia are posted in the channel called “Home Trainings Church of God Singapore” . In the “About” tab of this channel, it mentions that “This channel is for the promotion of the 2nd Initiative (home training) of the Church of God in Singapore.”

I have some understanding of the situation in Singapore. Currently there is a “five initiatives” plan in Singapore to increase the number of saints in the church.

Initiative 2 (which was in those youtube videos) is to conduct home trainings so that there will be more new serving ones.

Initiative 5 involves contacting and having dialogue with Christian believers.
To this end, “Life-O” was set up in which forums are conducted. If you visit the webpage/facebook page, you will not find the link with LSM
http://life-o.org/
www.facebook.com/LifeO.sg

Freedom

06-12-2016, 03:40 PM

I have some understanding of the situation in Singapore. Currently there is a “five initiatives” plan in Singapore to increase the number of saints in the church.

Initiative 2 (which was in those youtube videos) is to conduct home trainings so that there will be more new serving ones.

Initiative 5 involves contacting and having dialogue with Christian believers.
To this end, “Life-O” was set up in which forums are conducted. If you visit the webpage/facebook page, you will not find the link with LSM
http://life-o.org/
www.facebook.com/LifeO.sg (http://www.facebook.com/LifeO.sg)

Above anything else, it just goes to show that they know just as well as anyone else that what is being presented is questionable. Otherwise there would be no need to 'hide' anything. Why don't they just say "Come to our meeting to hear everyone parrot Witness Lee." That would be an honest statement of what happens in a meeting and it would also let outsiders decide form themselves if they should come or not.

I always laugh when I see that they are attempting to make use of some new or revised methodology that promises a too good to be true "return on investment." When is anyone going to learn? Do they really think that because they have made a better looking website that they will get people to their meetings?

Where I live there is a community church that appeared and grew fairly quickly (and is now very large), mainly due to outreach methods intended to engage the community. In the LC, this kind of stuff was mocked and even ridiculed, but who are the ones who have remained stagnant? It's the LC.

And that's not to say that methodology means anything, the point is that blindly promoting to a 'foolproof' method to do something is stupid. For a church to grow, there has to be an honest assessment of what works and doesn't work.

Nell

06-13-2016, 12:32 AM

... For a church to grow, there has to be an honest assessment of what works and doesn't work.

For the church to grow there must be a complete dependence on the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit alone "works". Anything else is a contrivance; a man made invention or fabrication or improvisation. I don't know which is worse: attempting to pass such a contrivance off to others as the church or believing yourself that God is so impotent that He needs the pitiful gimmicks contrived by fallen men to build His church for Him.

I couldn't make it through the video, but was prayer mentioned at all?

Nell

UntoHim

06-13-2016, 10:22 AM

Since when does Witness Lee play second billing to Watchman Nee?
I guess in the Church in Singapore he does!

https://www.facebook.com/LifeO.sg

"The Truth Bookroom @Suntec City Exhibition & Convention Centre - Hall 401, B20-22. From 4-9 June, 11am - 10pm."
http://i68.tinypic.com/33xu9o1.jpg
http://i65.tinypic.com/2rxjic9.jpg

-

NewManLiving

06-13-2016, 10:55 AM

It could also be a marketing ploy

UntoHim

06-13-2016, 11:24 AM

Absolutely!

What I'm wondering, is the name of Witness Lee so damaged in this area of Asia that they would rather present Watchman Nee as the main source of the teachings and practices of their church? If so, this would be a drastic change from the past.

-

NewManLiving

06-13-2016, 11:57 AM

The whole home training appears to be a ploy as well. Let's see how "one" they are with all Christians when someone comes along into their Bible Study and disagrees with them.

The point is that the Lord has many devoted servants. To say that only Witness Lee and/or Watchman Nee got it right is nothing more than another denomination at best and a cult at worst. Can't they see this? Those who disagree will be considered as useless for "The Work" and be shunned. It's all about their organization, The Lord is not even considered.

I wonder if they have to submit to the Blendeds. If so then the Blendeds also agree that the name Witness Lee is bad for business

OBW

06-13-2016, 01:08 PM

I understand Brother Andrew can still play a nasty bagpipe.Is there any other kind? :D

Cal

06-13-2016, 03:28 PM

Is there any other kind? :D

I love bagpipes jokes!

Why do bagpipers walk when they play?
To get away from the noise.

What's the difference between the Great Highland and Northumbrian bagpipes?
The Great Highland burns longer.

What's the difference between a bagpipe and a trampoline?
You take off your shoes when you jump on a trampoline.

What's the difference between a bagpipe and an onion?
No one cries when you chop up a bagpipe.

and...

What's the difference between Brother Andrew rehearsing the bagpipes and a fire evacuation?
People make their escape more slowly in a fire evacuation.

aron

06-16-2016, 06:49 AM

On the campus, when inquired as to what churches we were associated with, we would tell people that we were "believers of various backgrounds". When I participated in BFA distributions, it was the same deal...we made some amount of effort to obscure our true connections when making contact with the public. Telling the partial truth was commonplace, and even an occasional "white lie" was spoken. All for what? It wasn't about the gospel so much as it was attempting to bring WL to a broader audience.

Telling people that Witness Lee had God's ministry of the age and was Deputy God on earth might turn them off, at the first meeting. We were counseled to get the hook in them, get leverage, before beginning to turn the screws. "The truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth" became instead, selective aspects of the truth, carefully doled out. Other unhelpful aspects of the truth were suppressed or avoided.

The gospel, in these hands, is merely a vehicle to get people into the Local Church Life. And the LC life is merely a vehicle to enslave people, body soul and spirit, to a publishing house in southern California. To see young girls, some of them still in their teens, holding up signed documents pledging to focus on "ministry" readings with their "trainers" . . . that's the gospel, today? Why not just stamp "property of LSM" on their foreheads? Make it a little more clear?

Ohio

06-16-2016, 07:13 AM

Telling people that Witness Lee had God's ministry of the age and was Deputy God on earth might turn them off, at the first meeting. We were counseled to get the hook in them, get leverage, before beginning to turn the screws. "The truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth" became instead, selective aspects of the truth, carefully doled out. Other unhelpful aspects of the truth were suppressed or avoided.

The gospel, in these hands, is merely a vehicle to get people into the Local Church Life. And the LC life is merely a vehicle to enslave people, body soul and spirit, to a publishing house in southern California. To see young girls, some of them still in their teens, holding up signed documents pledging to focus on "ministry" readings with their "trainers" . . . that's the gospel, today? Why not just stamp "property of LSM" on their foreheads? Make it a little more clear?
They had more signed pledges to the ministry in those videos?

I only watched the Bagpipe video.

aron

06-16-2016, 07:22 AM

They had more signed pledges to the ministry in those videos?

I only watched the Bagpipe video.

Look at the "commitment" video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jBXVocTYyo

In Chinese see:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHm5-csHeB4

Here's one of them: "Lizzy would like to commit the next 12 weeks with sister Sharon, Zoe, and Angelica, to pursue the happy healthy Christian living." They sign and date it.

First, get the mark to have an emotional response to the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ, then get them to see that "Jesus Christ" and "the church life" are synonymous. Then get them to see that without God's Deputy Authority the church life would be chaos, and without the revelation of God's Present Oracle there would be no truth.

And when things start to deteriorate, wave the signed document in front of them. "You are in the army, now. You have no rights". Etc.

Crass manipulation. A perversion of the freedom of the gospel of Jesus Christ. But very effective with inexperienced and emotionally vulnerable teenagers.

Freedom

06-17-2016, 10:49 PM

First, get the mark to have an emotional response to the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ, then get them to see that "Jesus Christ" and "the church life" are synonymous. Then get them to see that without God's Deputy Authority the church life would be chaos, and without the revelation of God's Present Oracle there would be no truth.

And when things start to deteriorate, wave the signed document in front of them. "You are in the army, now. You have no rights". Etc.

Crass manipulation. A perversion of the freedom of the gospel of Jesus Christ. But very effective with inexperienced and emotionally vulnerable teenagers.

When I first became concerned about the LC, one of the catalysts was none other than these empty promises in regards to getting an increase, as well as the playing upon emotions. They make promises that if we would only consecrate ourselves to do such and such, that the Lord would bless our endeavors. It didn’t take much to see through it all, but at the same time, it’s easy to understand why people get trapped in it all.

About 10 years ago, the LC’s in the area that I’m from held a conference for “young working adults.” I didn’t attend this conference, but I was told that they had video-taped everyone offering up consecrations. Obviously, if there was the intent to video tape things, then it was all premeditated. That throws spontaneity out the window (not that spontaneity means anything), but people need to realize their emotions are being played upon, and more and more, people are being held hostage by being simply-minded enough to express a misconstrued loyalty.