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Old 07-28-2019, 07:50 PM   #1
stillseekingtruth
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Default Free my Mind

Hi all! I was born into LC and met in the GLA for 38 years. About four years ago, I made a slow transition out of the LC and into 'fallen Christendom" with the aid of my wonderful husband. Jo Casteel's open letter helped me tremendously. It was as if everything i said and though behind closed doors came into the light. I've been under a myriad of lies. I believed one man, one ministry, one publication...one one one. I'm ashamed to say that I was appalled when TC shared with the us young people that we had a ministry. How could anyone say that when WL was the oracle of the age?

In 1999, I moved in with my aunt. I was 21 years old. At the time we met under TC and I went to the college trainings and conferences and Jubliee meetings. My aunt is very devoted to the LR and WL so when a splintering between TC and the LC became more apparent in our locality we sought out different localities to hear the trainings. We were asked to leave a certain locailty and in another locality the brothers under TC started to sensor the messages from Anaheim. My aunt said that as soon as they stopped sharing the ministry we would go to this other locality that separated from TC some twenty years earlier to stay under the ministry. (Sorry, I'm trying not to use names. I know it's a llilttle jumbled.) Although, I learned later that it was moe of a power struggle between the leading ones.

When we were under TC, (and I'm not saying this has anything to do with TC himself as he was rarely around), I was in such disarray because of the control and confusion and personal trials in my life I became suicidal and my dissociative identity disorder and PTSD emerged. When I was growing up, sexual abuse occurred in and out of the meetings. It was awful and confusing how the abusers could have the bible in one hand, lead people to salvation, have a home open for meetings, and then abuse you. Sometimes even using the Word of God against you when you called them out. I'm so thankful for my parents leading me to Christ, but my mom was a primary abuser and my dad was in denial. I remember asking him why this brother would throw chairs in a meeting (this happened about 5 years ago) and my dad said that we all have the flesh and that in xxx locality, brothers got into fist fights in the meetings. Seriously?

Eventually, we went to the forbidden locality. I was guilt ridden and full of shame for leaving the TC saints behind, but others had gone before and it was a comfort to see and meet with them again. I'll speed this up a bit. I spent ten years in xxx locality serving and pouring everything I had into the church. It was my life! I served the children, I served the young people at SSOT and conferences, I cooked, I went to Levitical service and cleaned the meeting hall. I spent endless hours in home meetings and church meetings listening to the ministry and being taught "not to rebel." I had such trouble with this one brother who micromanaged EVERYTHING with the children's service. I guess I'll make a list of my experiences now for fluidity sake.

1. I was publicly and privately rebuked.
2. I was told over and over - just give yourself to Christ and the Church
3. I was told that if I just call on the Lord and eat more Jesus I'll be filled with joy
4. I was labeled a rebellious sister
5. I begged the leading brothers to please not let the 2 - 4 year olds run in the parking lot unattended and I was told that we cannot correct the saints. We must be like Moses and be half blind. Just pray, Sister. Guess what! One of those kids was in the hospital for swallowing laundry detergent AND he was hit by a car. Ok, I know accidents happen with kids, but these parents seriously needed some loving guidance.
6. I bought into the lie that another locality wouldn't be blessed by the Lord because they didn't go through proper order to start that locality. Guess what, they're going strong.
7. I was threatened with outer darkness to the point where I just told them I don't care about outer darkness. Their answer was, "You should! You'll miss the kingdom and spend 1,000 weeping and gnashing teeth."
8. I pray-read. I hate pray reading!
9. I made my aunt my god and tried to acquiesce and go to the meetings without complaining.
10. I was told that I have to smile when I come into the meeting hall.
11. My aunt literally cried when I took a young person home early from a conference. She didn't want to stay and neither did I, but "miss a meeting, miss it for eternity."
12. I was told over and over and over and over and over that I need to be in the meetings and under the ministry to 'grow in life and gain more Christ.'
13. I believed that mainstream Christianity had a low gospel and low light
14. I believed that I was becoming God in life and nature, but not in His Godhead
15. i believed that I was going to be beheaded, get cancer, or becoming an invalid if I left the LR because I saw the vision and the punishment is greater if you see and turn from this way.
16. I condemned myself for being me
17. I hated hearing that I am nothing. I am no one. Christ is everything. If He doesn't want me, why did He make me?
18. I was never allowed to tell my story of the abuse I endured under my parents or my uncle or anyone else because I needed to cover the brothers and my parents. I had to be like Noah and cover their nakedness.
19. When I did tell a few elders about my parents because I was kicked out of my house, they said that no matter what I said how they felt about my parents would never change. Nobody gave a darn about me and I knew it. All anyone cared about is if you were in the meeting and you were serving.
20. An elder, before he was asked to step down, would preach that verse from the OT about being judged for every word. He would even go so far as to say that God is listening when we speak with one another in private so we need to speak only positive things.

Ok, that's my rant. I must say, however, it wasn't all bad. I traveled to London and Paris and other places I never would have gone. The price was sitting in several hours of meetings, but whatever. I love kids and I loved spending time with them when I wasn't being micromanaged or rebuked by the brothers. Once I took a group of young sisters to get ice cream during SSOT and I was rebuked by the brothers. The next day one of the brother's wife did the same thing and no one said a word.

Well, this is enough for now, I think. Thanks for letting me get some of this out!
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Old 07-28-2019, 10:24 PM   #2
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Welcome sister, to the forum. stillseekingtruth? I love it.

I can't believe you've been treated so badly, to say the least, growing up in the local church, and all you've gone thru.

You have been lied to. You've been lied to about who you are. No wonder you considered ending it, and no wonder you have dissociative personality disorder, and PTST. It is something that happens in that sort of system, sorry to say.

But I think that if you are still seeking the truth you'll find your way out of all. This I'm hoping for you in a big way. Just remember, you've been lied to about who you really are.

And hope to read more rants from you. You rant real good. Keep it up, pretty please. You seem to be a wonderful person to me, for whatever it's worth.
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Old 07-28-2019, 11:46 PM   #3
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5. I begged the leading brothers to please not let the 2 - 4 year olds run in the parking lot unattended and I was told that we cannot correct the saints. We must be like Moses and be half blind. Just pray, Sister. Guess what! One of those kids was in the hospital for swallowing laundry detergent AND he was hit by a car. Ok, I know accidents happen with kids, but these parents seriously needed some loving guidance.
6. I bought into the lie that another locality wouldn't be blessed by the Lord because they didn't go through proper order to start that locality. Guess what, they're going strong.
13. I believed that mainstream Christianity had a low gospel and low light
14. I believed that I was becoming God in life and nature, but not in His Godhead
16. I condemned myself for being me
18. I was never allowed to tell my story of the abuse I endured under my parents or my uncle or anyone else because I needed to cover the brothers and my parents. I had to be like Noah and cover their nakedness.
19. When I did tell a few elders about my parents because I was kicked out of my house, they said that no matter what I said how they felt about my parents would never change. Nobody gave a darn about me and I knew it. All anyone cared about is if you were in the meeting and you were serving.
Thank you for your post. You'll find many of us have had common experiences. Following are comments of mine from your points.
5. Not everyone is blessed with common sense even for brothers and sisters.
6. Guess what? In the 70's a brother from Seattle was excommunicated for wanting to "take the ground" in Bellevue without fellowship. Eventually that worked out all right.
13. I would rather have the "low gospel" than be filled with knowledge and pride.
14. It's a cult
16. I felt condemned too. I'm so soulish and everyone is so spiritual. My emotions, mind, and will define who I am as a person. I cannot be going through the robotic motions.
18. I hate the "cover" teaching. Why is everything in black or red text in the Bible for everyone to see? Just to read the geneology of Jesus, it has the worst qualities humans have to offer. The cover teaching is why I named my youngest son Nathan. The prophet Nathan did not "cover" King David.
19. I feel much the same. They in the local churches only want the seats filled. Ones that have questions or concerns, they would rather let them go than to labor and spend time with them.
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Old 07-29-2019, 03:32 AM   #4
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And hope to read more rants from you. You rant real good. Keep it up, pretty please. You seem to be a wonderful person to me, for whatever it's worth.
An amen from me, too. God cares about ALL his children. Thank you for posting. Just as the Jo Casteel letter helped you, so your story can be a beacon of light to others trying to escape a culture of manipulation and abuse.

Your story matters. Never underestimate the power of a single human voice.
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Old 07-29-2019, 04:11 AM   #5
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The prophet Nathan did not "cover" King David..
And in the NT, Peter's repeated mistakes are noted. As were those of others. Peter just got more ink because he was in the lead to follow Jesus. Nobody "covered" Peter.

And how did we go from "Christ only Christ" to "Drunken Noah" anyway? Talk about bait-and-switch!
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Old 07-29-2019, 06:35 AM   #6
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Ok, that's my rant. I must say, however, it wasn't all bad. I traveled to London and Paris and other places I never would have gone. The price was sitting in several hours of meetings, but whatever. I love kids and I loved spending time with them when I wasn't being micromanaged or rebuked by the brothers. Once I took a group of young sisters to get ice cream during SSOT and I was rebuked by the brothers. The next day one of the brother's wife did the same thing and no one said a word.

Well, this is enough for now, I think. Thanks for letting me get some of this out!
Welcome to the forum, stillseekingtruth!

Glad to hear you have the aid of a wonderful husband, and that you can find some good amidst the fleshly abuse and hypocrisy.

Coming from a TC-controlled region, I can understand the confusion and the conflicts. So much rivalry, back-stabbing, suspicions, and endless commentary about how bad the other side was. It was like a nasty divorce, and everyone was losing, except the lawyers.
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Old 07-29-2019, 06:37 AM   #7
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And how did we go from "Christ only Christ" to "Drunken Noah" anyway?
Someone got whiff of Philip Lee's empty liquor bottles in the LSM garbage cans.
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Old 07-29-2019, 08:50 AM   #8
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And in the NT, Peter's repeated mistakes are noted. As were those of others. Peter just got more ink because he was in the lead to follow Jesus. Nobody "covered" Peter.

And how did we go from "Christ only Christ" to "Drunken Noah" anyway? Talk about bait-and-switch!
You're right! I know I've made a lot of mistakes and hurt a of people, but I've tried to keep short accounts and make amends where I can. I was quite impessed at the curch we attend when I saw church discipline in action. A sister repented to the whole church and asked for forgiveness for moving out with a guy for nearly a year. She was restored to the fellowship and forgiven with open arms. I have NEVER seen anything like that in the LC. Ever.

In the LC, I know they deny this, it's who you are. If your the son or daughter of an elder you're golden, untouchable. If your a single sister, you're nothing. I hated how they used the church in Corinth to justify the behavior of some of the saints. "It's still God's church." Did they even read Corinthians properly? Paul wasn't saying, "Oh, this is just what the church is. Deal with it." He was rebuking them and encouraging them to repent.
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Old 07-29-2019, 08:57 AM   #9
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Welcome to the forum, stillseekingtruth!

Glad to hear you have the aid of a wonderful husband, and that you can find some good amidst the fleshly abuse and hypocrisy.

Coming from a TC-controlled region, I can understand the confusion and the conflicts. So much rivalry, back-stabbing, suspicions, and endless commentary about how bad the other side was. It was like a nasty divorce, and everyone was losing, except the lawyers.
We praised TC and we cursed him at the same time. There was so much mixture where I was. Ministry + TC. In prayer meetings, we'd read a portion of a life Study and then the brothers would make fun of it. I'd meet at the sister's house and they praised WL. This is why it's so hard to trust. It's so hard to know what to believe. When I had questions about certain passages in the bible I was told to read the Life Studies. One sister used to joke, but was more serious, when I someone was frustrated with life just to read two life studies and call in the morning. Yet i was reminded over and over again "Brother Lee said don't just take his word. Take everything to the Lord." You can do that, but after thousands of messages, life studies, ministry books, and indoctrination you will still 'hear' WL in 'What the Lord says." If you speak anything different, you are not hearing the Lord, you are hearing yourself or Satan and you need to rebuke it.I can't believe how much hur and frustration Im still harboring.
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Old 07-29-2019, 09:43 AM   #10
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We praised TC and we cursed him at the same time. There was so much mixture where I was. Ministry + TC. In prayer meetings, we'd read a portion of a life Study and then the brothers would make fun of it. I'd meet at the sister's house and they praised WL. This is why it's so hard to trust. It's so hard to know what to believe. When I had questions about certain passages in the bible I was told to read the Life Studies. One sister used to joke, but was more serious, when I someone was frustrated with life just to read two life studies and call in the morning. Yet i was reminded over and over again "Brother Lee said don't just take his word. Take everything to the Lord." You can do that, but after thousands of messages, life studies, ministry books, and indoctrination you will still 'hear' WL in 'What the Lord says." If you speak anything different, you are not hearing the Lord, you are hearing yourself or Satan and you need to rebuke it.I can't believe how much hur and frustration Im still harboring.
Welcome to the forum and thanks for sharing! I was in the Columbus church back in the 80s, so missed much of the "fun" between TC & WL. As I read your account, I am once again thankful to the Lord that He lead us out before things got really funky! They were already getting pretty bad, but I learned later that the Ohio churches were somewhat insulated from LSM, so some of it was filtered. Our family didn't really see what was going on, but the Lord was still merciful and got me a job out west in 1988. So we moved to the desert of California, where I basically had no fellowship for 5+ years. This started my journey of "drying out" from all things LSM.

This process took about 10 years, but by seeking Him in great angst (I still believed the lie and thought there was no where else I could go to get His fresh speaking), He wondrously led me to the gathering I'm now with in Scottsdale. Most of the people gathering there had been basically ousted from the LC in the NW back in the late 80s.

Now I know, and He shows me over and over, that this is where I was meant to be! So seek Him diligently, and you will enter into His rest!

Oh, one other thing that is key: God loves us, and His primary motivation toward us is love! I saw this shortly after starting to fellowship in Scottsdale, and I can say that seeing His love is the biggest key to open the meaning of the entire Bible. (as opposed to fear) In a short period of time, and through seeing His love, scriptures were more open to me than all those years (off & on since 1974) in TLR .
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Old 07-29-2019, 08:36 PM   #11
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Welcome, Stillseekingtruth!

I too was raised in the GLA churches, with my HS years spent in Anaheim. The LSM /TC issues were so damaging to so many believers, friendships, and families. I moved out of the region in '04 but felt like wherever I went by telling other saints where I was from that I was automatically received with skepticism. And what was it all for? Power, essenrially.

So much of what you said resonated with me. The lowly gospel- I hate that! Hate it.

Glad you are here and hope to connect more with you.
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Old 07-29-2019, 09:48 PM   #12
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1. I was publicly and privately rebuked.
Guess what? If these people do not repent for how you and so many precious children of Father God were and are abused, they are going to be publicly and privately rebuked by CHRIST THE JUDGE Himself.

That said, I pray God shines His Glory Light on them that they repent deeply once they let God's LIGHT SHINE in their dark souls. They have permitted the devil to deceive them through religious and false teachings and most of all pride and power in the LR. Consider all the pedophilia and sexual abuse that has been exposed in the RCC! Just like the LR, the higher ups even as high as the pope, 'covered' and protected the abusers. But God is not looking the other way. He is not winking at them. And when they stand before the JUDGE, if they have not repented with a sincere and genuine heart, they are not going to be without excuse.

As hard as this next 'word of counsel' from me to you might be, ask the Lord to help you forgive them if you have not forgiven them.

It does not mean you should shake hands with them and be 'buddy buddy' with them. I have asked the Lord to forgive people who abused me, used me, manipulated me and of course hurt me deeply. It was not easy for me for as forgave them from my heart, I watched them 'prosper' in their lives.

And yet I on the other hand suffered emotionally and even physically while I forgave them. But that was a lesson I needed to learn and pass the test. I somehow with God's help, passed the test! I know I did because I am totally emotionally healed today.

Btw, in looking back they were 'fake Christians' who Satan used to try to make me doubt my Savior, who tried to confuse me and who tried to steal the joy of the Lord from me.

Sometimes I am haunted by my past and tend to look in the rear view mirror. But then the Holy Spirit reminds me to forget the past. To look ahead. Press on and press on toward the goal for the prize which is Christ in us the HOPE of Glory Who will never leave us or forsake us.

I can testify without a shadow of a doubt He won't leave us or forsake us no matter how dark the valley of the shadow of death is in our lives. Even though I was hurt and also abused, bitterness and anger made me think, say and do things I regret to this day.

I am comforted knowing God did not leave me or forsake me in my darkest hour. He has forgiven me. And I am reminded if Jesus has forgiven me, I too through His Holy Spirit helping me, must forgive those who hurt me too.

His Promise is He Who sits on the throne makes all things new. and these words are faithful and true. There truly is newness of LIFE in our lives.

I will share a little more in a bit.

Blessings of healing shower and envelop you..

Carol
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Old 07-29-2019, 10:12 PM   #13
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Welcome, Stillseekingtruth!

I too was raised in the GLA churches, with my HS years spent in Anaheim. The LSM /TC issues were so damaging to so many believers, friendships, and families. I moved out of the region in '04 but felt like wherever I went by telling other saints where I was from that I was automatically received with skepticism. And what was it all for? Power, essenrially.

So much of what you said resonated with me. The lowly gospel- I hate that! Hate it.

Glad you are here and hope to connect more with you.
I have a question for you all..
How in the world were you all able to focus on Christ? Or maybe you all couldn't? But still God in His Love, Mercy and Compassion sustained you. His WORD is True and Faithful. He will never leave you or forsake you. NEVER. NEVER. NEVER.
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Old 07-30-2019, 03:43 AM   #14
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In the LC, I know they deny this, it's who you are. If your the son or daughter of an elder you're golden, untouchable. If your a single sister, you're nothing. .
This is perceptive and well put. People get treated differently in the LC based on who they 'are'. You're valued based on your relations with the center, and this center is not Jesus Christ.

I recommend the testimony of Don Rutledge from Arkansas. He was there at the very beginning in the early 1960s. Years later, when he was an insider, he noticed how differently other LC leaders treated him if they found out he was "tight" with Lee. Suddenly indifference turned to respect. And 40 years later, it really hasn't changed. New players, same game.

Witness Lee built a 'guanxi network' with his ministry as its base or platform. He's gone but others have taken it over, as it is seen by many as a valuable asset.
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Old 07-31-2019, 05:32 PM   #15
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I have a question for you all..
How in the world were you all able to focus on Christ? Or maybe you all couldn't? But still God in His Love, Mercy and Compassion sustained you. His WORD is True and Faithful. He will never leave you or forsake you. NEVER. NEVER. NEVER.
We sang about Only Christ. In reality it was Christ +, but they would never admit it.
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Old 07-31-2019, 08:08 PM   #16
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I have a question for you all..
How in the world were you all able to focus on Christ? Or maybe you all couldn't? But still God in His Love, Mercy and Compassion sustained you. His WORD is True and Faithful. He will never leave you or forsake you. NEVER. NEVER. NEVER.
Oh my....I remember when my aunt and I traveled and tried to find a locality to meet at, we weren't allowed to go becauae we were from the GLA and might 'poison` the saints there. It got so bad that we had to have permission to meet in another locality in our region and we were excluded from certain home meetings. Proposterous!
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Old 07-31-2019, 09:32 PM   #17
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Oh my....I remember when my aunt and I traveled and tried to find a locality to meet at, we weren't allowed to go becauae we were from the GLA and might 'poison` the saints there. It got so bad that we had to have permission to meet in another locality in our region and we were excluded from certain home meetings. Proposterous!
The hospitality offered by the saints in the LC is really outstanding, why is that lacking with other Christians? Or is it?
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Old 07-31-2019, 10:37 PM   #18
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The lowly gospel- I hate that! Hate it.
In my LC experience I always heard it phrased as "the low gospel".
"We in the local churches have the high peaks"......, while generally refer to all other non-LC congregations as having the low gospel.
While I used to hate hearing the phrase, I really feel sad for ones in the local churches that still use "the high peaks" expression. I'll take "the low gospel" every time than to be puffed up with knowledge.
I think of this passage from James 2:14-16

What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?
Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, "Go in peace; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it?


That sums up how I perceive the LC attitude towards works. Someone is in need, we pray yet do nothing. To do something is considered "works" which is looked down upon.
We can't help everyone, but everyone can help someone. If the extent of help is assisting to feed homeless, thank you.
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Old 08-01-2019, 04:03 AM   #19
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In my LC experience I always heard it phrased as "the low gospel".
"We in the local churches have the high peaks"......, while generally refer to all other non-LC congregations as having the low gospel.
While I used to hate hearing the phrase, I really feel sad for ones in the local churches that still use "the high peaks" expression. I'll take "the low gospel" every time than to be puffed up with knowledge.
I think of this passage from James 2:14-16

What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?
Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, "Go in peace; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it?


That sums up how I perceive the LC attitude towards works. Someone is in need, we pray yet do nothing. To do something is considered "works" which is looked down upon.
We can't help everyone, but everyone can help someone. If the extent of help is assisting to feed homeless, thank you.
Im still struggling withthe book of James. WL's sharing on that and in the Life Study was rather negative. It was made out to be a 'religious` book and not as 'high' as the other books of the bible. WL said that James thinking was mixed with Judaism and the New Testament. You're right. In the LC we dont do 'good works' that is from the 'wrong' we just stay 'under the divine dispensing' and poof! Things will change or at least we'll gain enough Christ to overcome so the heck with everyone else. (Eyeroll)
Oh my gosh - just skimming through the LS of James and seeing all the brainwashing and control statements. Ugh. A sister I was very close to accused everyone she knew of being controlling yet she wouldnt admit how controlling WL and the blendong bros are. It's sad.
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Old 08-01-2019, 07:13 AM   #20
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Oh my....I remember when my aunt and I traveled and tried to find a locality to meet at, we weren't allowed to go because we were from the GLA and might 'poison` the saints there. It got so bad that we had to have permission to meet in another locality in our region and we were excluded from certain home meetings. Proposterous!
This is so ridiculous. So you got the GLA "leprosy" and there was "no room in the inn" for you?

There is so much superstition with LSM. That's what happens when you leave the word of God, and substitute the words of Lee.
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Old 08-01-2019, 07:18 AM   #21
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Im still struggling withthe book of James. WL's sharing on that and in the Life Study was rather negative. It was made out to be a 'religious` book and not as 'high' as the other books of the bible. WL said that James thinking was mixed with Judaism and the New Testament. You're right. In the LC we dont do 'good works' that is from the 'wrong' we just stay 'under the divine dispensing' and poof! Things will change or at least we'll gain enough Christ to overcome so the heck with everyone else. (Eyeroll)
Oh my gosh - just skimming through the LS of James and seeing all the brainwashing and control statements. Ugh. A sister I was very close to accused everyone she knew of being controlling yet she wouldnt admit how controlling WL and the blendong bros are. It's sad.
You might want to consider throwing away the LS of James.

Lee also discredited Proverbs and numerous Psalms. Most of us spent a good amount of time just reading the Bible -- alone. And for those troublesome teachings of Lee still haunting you -- this forum and many decent commentaries are available, ready to assist with your "detox."
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Old 08-01-2019, 07:22 AM   #22
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Oh my....I remember when my aunt and I traveled and tried to find a locality to meet at, we weren't allowed to go becauae we were from the GLA and might 'poison` the saints there. It got so bad that we had to have permission to meet in another locality in our region and we were excluded from certain home meetings. Proposterous!
20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock: if any man hear my voice and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Can you hear the Lord knocking now?
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Old 08-01-2019, 07:59 AM   #23
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This is so ridiculous. So you got the GLA "leprosy" and there was "no room in the inn" for you?

There is so much superstition with LSM. That's what happens when you leave the word of God, and substitute the words of Lee.
You got it! Not only was I 'rebellious' I was also 'leprous.'

I do remember the sharing about Psalms and Proverbs and how David was in his soul or something and not in the spirit. There is a lot to detox from!

The other thing I keep thinking about is the Recovery Version of the bible. There are a lot of differences in the word choice. Like 1 Timothy 4:16 - Watch your life and doctrine closely...in th RV Take heed to yourself and to your teaching. - so 'doctrine' is changed to 'teaching' because 'doctrine' (in the LR) is a bad thing. It makes my head hurt to think about how much WL put a spin on the word of God. I listened to a commentary from Jeff Riddle regarding the recovery version. This is the link to his blog which is basically the audio transcribed. http://www.jeffriddle.net/2017/02/wo...-recovery.html
He was confued about the copyright thing and not being able to quote it without written permission. He addresses the footnotes and the 'crystallization' of the bible. Riddle states that he's a little bothered by the words "consummation" and "crystallization"' of 2,000 years of study. Of course there's more to his review, but it helped me a lot.
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Old 08-01-2019, 09:27 AM   #24
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You got it! Not only was I 'rebellious' I was also 'leprous.'

I do remember the sharing about Psalms and Proverbs and how David was in his soul or something and not in the spirit. There is a lot to detox from!

The other thing I keep thinking about is the Recovery Version of the bible. There are a lot of differences in the word choice. Like 1 Timothy 4:16 - Watch your life and doctrine closely...in th RV Take heed to yourself and to your teaching. - so 'doctrine' is changed to 'teaching' because 'doctrine' (in the LR) is a bad thing. It makes my head hurt to think about how much WL put a spin on the word of God. I listened to a commentary from Jeff Riddle regarding the recovery version. This is the link to his blog which is basically the audio transcribed. http://www.jeffriddle.net/2017/02/wo...-recovery.html
He was confued about the copyright thing and not being able to quote it without written permission. He addresses the footnotes and the 'crystallization' of the bible. Riddle states that he's a little bothered by the words "consummation" and "crystallization"' of 2,000 years of study. Of course there's more to his review, but it helped me a lot.
Regarding the RecV, there is another version very similar to it called the World English Bible, or WEB.

Both are updates to the ASV 1901 version, which is an excellent translation, but the language is almost 120 years old. So the WEB is a great update to the ASV, with minor improvements. The WEB and the RecV are very similar.

Can you guess which one is free to the public?
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Old 08-01-2019, 10:53 AM   #25
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Im still struggling withthe book of James. WL's sharing on that and in the Life Study was rather negative. It was made out to be a 'religious` book and not as 'high' as the other books of the bible. WL said that James thinking was mixed with Judaism and the New Testament. You're right. In the LC we dont do 'good works' that is from the 'wrong' we just stay 'under the divine dispensing' and poof! Things will change or at least we'll gain enough Christ to overcome so the heck with everyone else. (Eyeroll)
Oh my gosh - just skimming through the LS of James and seeing all the brainwashing and control statements. Ugh. A sister I was very close to accused everyone she knew of being controlling yet she wouldnt admit how controlling WL and the blendong bros are. It's sad.
We recently went through James here, and it was wonderful! Many, including me, had not-so-good opinions about James. But some background things that helped us was knowing it was the first NT book written. James had nothing else of the New Covenant to go on, and he was addressing Jewish believers. The language sounds reminiscent of the OT, because that's all they had. But his words would have been quite revolutionary to the Jewish believers of the time.

And at various points in James, we were a pretty amazed to see how closely he tracked with some of Paul's writings!
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Old 08-02-2019, 08:49 AM   #26
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Regarding the RecV, there is another version very similar to it called the World English Bible, or WEB.

Both are updates to the ASV 1901 version, which is an excellent translation, but the language is almost 120 years old. So the WEB is a great update to the ASV, with minor improvements. The WEB and the RecV are very similar.

Can you guess which one is free to the public?
TheRecovery Version, of course!
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Old 08-02-2019, 08:50 AM   #27
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We recently went through James here, and it was wonderful! Many, including me, had not-so-good opinions about James. But some background things that helped us was knowing it was the first NT book written. James had nothing else of the New Covenant to go on, and he was addressing Jewish believers. The language sounds reminiscent of the OT, because that's all they had. But his words would have been quite revolutionary to the Jewish believers of the time.

And at various points in James, we were a pretty amazed to see how closely he tracked with some of Paul's writings!
Wow! Thanks! I had know idea. i still ahte that all we had to go on was WL's interpretation.
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Old 08-02-2019, 09:53 AM   #28
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Wow! Thanks! I had know idea. i still hate that all we had to go on was WL's interpretation.
There seems to be three books in particular in the NT that people often struggle with - Revelation, Hebrews & James. But I have to say that in going through each one slowly here with the saints, and really diving into the context and meaning, they all have all proven to be fresh and very helpful!

What really helps me is getting the big overview of each book, which really puts things into a proper and simple context. (and old, unhelpful concepts get exposed)
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Old 08-06-2019, 03:15 PM   #29
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Dear stillseekingtruth;
''Blendong'' brothers? Obviously a typo, but, it has a ring to it! ( dong! ) Could this set a precedent on here?
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Old 08-06-2019, 09:42 PM   #30
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Im still struggling with the book of James. WL's sharing on that and in the Life Study was rather negative. It was made out to be a 'religious` book and not as 'high' as the other books of the bible. WL said that James thinking was mixed with Judaism and the New Testament. You're right. In the LC we dont do 'good works' that is from the 'wrong' we just stay 'under the divine dispensing' and poof! Things will change or at least we'll gain enough Christ to overcome so the heck with everyone else. (Eyeroll)
Oh my gosh - just skimming through the LS of James and seeing all the brainwashing and control statements. Ugh. A sister I was very close to accused everyone she knew of being controlling yet she wouldnt admit how controlling WL and the blendong bros are. It's sad.
I have not had much time to write but so many very good threads and posts.

So briefly, I have been studying (when not doing other things) the doctrine of dispensations for over a year and I have not only gotten so much insight, revelation and understanding but have grown closer to the Lord.

As an fyi, I was not around when Lee 'lectured' on James. THANK GOD ALMIGHTY!! Because even though I have read James 4 or 5 times, I never found it negative.

What I failed to realize even after reading James how many times?? I never saw verse 1.

I am posting a link to a verse by verse study of James. I think it's pretty good. That's my opinion.
But Just a word of caution, the pastor (a you tube teacher) is dressed in a white shirt and tie. I have been reading and studying God's Word on my own for a very long time and what he teaches agrees with my spirit by and large 90% of the time. I have also emailed him with a question and he has always answered me. Not right away but within 2 weeks time.

Hearing someone else's take on a teaching can be helpful. Btw, I 'follow' 2 other 'teachers' more than I do Robert Breaker.

Hope this video will help you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nqxq...ature=youtu.be

Blessings!

P.S. Breaker is a King James only. I am not.
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Old 08-06-2019, 09:55 PM   #31
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There seems to be three books in particular in the NT that people often struggle with - Revelation, Hebrews & James. But I have to say that in going through each one slowly here with the saints, and really diving into the context and meaning, they all have all proven to be fresh and very helpful!

What really helps me is getting the big overview of each book, which really puts things into a proper and simple context. (and old, unhelpful concepts get exposed)
And that's why 2 Timothy 2:15 says:
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth.

For years I have been asking the Holy Spirit to help me understand what I am reading. He always answers me. I also ask Him to keep me from being deceived. He is TRUE and FAITHFUL. So I trust the LORD when I ask Him to help me understand and He leads me to some good bible teachers on you tube.
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Old 08-15-2019, 04:43 PM   #32
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And that's why 2 Timothy 2:15 says:
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth.

For years I have been asking the Holy Spirit to help me understand what I am reading. He always answers me. I also ask Him to keep me from being deceived. He is TRUE and FAITHFUL. So I trust the LORD when I ask Him to help me understand and He leads me to some good bible teachers on you tube.
''Shew thyself'' approved.....?'' From WHOM did you get this fancy speech?
Just experimenting with this system. I'm trying to learn how to use it.
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Old 08-15-2019, 05:11 PM   #33
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''Shew thyself'' approved.....?'' From WHOM did you get this fancy speech?
Just experimenting with this system. I'm trying to learn how to use it.
Prolly good ol King James Version.
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