Local Church Discussions  

Go Back   Local Church Discussions > Oh Lord, Where Do We Go From Here?

Oh Lord, Where Do We Go From Here? Current and former members (and anyone in between!)... tell us what is on your mind and in your heart.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-17-2015, 06:00 AM   #1
aron
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Natal Transvaal
Posts: 5,635
Default Build a bridge and get over it

Quote:
Originally Posted by LCMember
Even if someone could prove us wrong ... so what? But, how is your enjoyment of Christ?
On another thread, a current LC member said the quote above. Additionally, she said, "Build a bridge and get over it". I made some perfunctory response but feel that it deserves more, and didn't want to distract from the conversation there (about Daystar). And I don't want to pick fights so I'm not naming the person. It doesn't matter. But the remarks are worth consideration.

I like to solve puzzles. So I was fulfilled when I realized that the Little Flock in mainland China, circa 1925-35, experienced dramatic growth because it helped Chinese Christians escape from association with the hated occupiers. Remember that the Boxer rebellion, which threatened both WN and WL's families was directed at Christians and the West. And it was put down by foreign troops. So to be associated with the hated occupiers was really bad. WN gave the Chinese Christians a way out, the proposed "normal Christian church".

Likewise, WL rode the wave of the Jesus Movement, circa 1965-75, to grow the LC exponentially, and spread geographically. The fact that it wasn't WL causing the LC to grow, but the Jesus Movement, can be seen in the exponential growth of other ministries such as Chuck Smith's Calvary Chapel, in Costa Mesa CA, which also catered to the young, and saw them stream in by the thousands. "You love to call the young/to carry out Your move/to leave the old behind/to have a change in mind" was a song we used to sing in my LC locality.

So WN rode the wave of xenophobia and WL rode the Jesus Movement. I was happy when I solved a puzzle to my satisfaction. It really helped me to build a bridge to get over it.

Jesus told us to forgive, but if we don't know what we are forgiving, how can we heal? The doctor doesn't tell you, "You are sick", and say "Here is my magic cure-all. I don't know what you have but just a dab of this and surely you'll improve." No, the doctor is specific with the diagnosis, and careful with the prescription. Likewise we do need to forgive, and go on, but we have to understand what we are getting over, before we can get over it.

To say, "WL was evil." is to sell the story short. Number one, he was a Christian who loved God and tried to serve God, and number two we are all arguably evil. So what good does a blanket, generic, condemnation do? How does that help us get over?

No, the way over is Jesus Christ, and His Holy Spirit, and He is a very good Physician. If He wants to heal you, let the Holy Spirit Shine. Surely I need forgiveness as well. Who is stumbled, and I do not burn?
__________________
"Freedom is free. It's slavery that's so horribly expensive" - Colonel Templeton, ret., of the 12th Scottish Highlanders, the 'Black Fusiliers'
aron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2015, 06:41 AM   #2
awareness
Member
 
awareness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 8,064
Default Re: Build a bridge and get over it

Is this one of those bridges to nowhere we've heard about?
__________________
Cults: My brain will always be there for you. Thinking. So you don't have to.
There's a serpent in every paradise.
awareness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2015, 09:50 AM   #3
aron
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Natal Transvaal
Posts: 5,635
Default Re: Build a bridge and get over it

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
Is this one of those bridges to nowhere we've heard about?
They say that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. What is the bridge to nowhere paved with? I would answer, resentment and anxiety. "If you have anything against your brother, stop and reconcile. Then you can go to the Father with your gift."

Reconciliation is the key. Reconciliation is in the sapphire paving stones bridging Moses, the sinner, and the awesome Most High God. Reconciliation consists of two things: repentance, and forgiveness. "Forgive us our trespasses, even as we forgive those who trespass against us." The boilerplate Christian prayer is of repentance and forgiveness.

At its elemental form, this is our bridge, and the girders and struts supporting us over the chasm below. Christ offers the way, will we take it?

For me this forum has been somewhat of my own journey of transformation. How much has the tone of my posts revealed a snide, judgmental know-it-all? Probably a lot. So I repent. And Jesus says, Your repentance is vain, lest you forgive. No double standards allowed at the Pearly Gates. The scale is just. So even as I repent, so also I forgive.

Back to the theme of Post #1: a generic "Mistakes were made" doesn't advance reconciliation very much. We must be specific as possible. So unraveling the LC puzzle was, I hope, some measure of progress. I really "enjoyed Christ", writing "The Asian mind and the Western mind", for example, because it advanced my understanding, and my ability to let go. We're all imperfect, struggling forward as best we can - Watchman Nee and Witness Lee were two Christians doing the best they could with what they had. And the work of Teresa Zimmerman-Liu, recently covered here was also a confirmation. There are answers here before us; answers and closure. Praise God. Peace to all who love Him, and who are called according to His purpose and grace.
__________________
"Freedom is free. It's slavery that's so horribly expensive" - Colonel Templeton, ret., of the 12th Scottish Highlanders, the 'Black Fusiliers'
aron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2015, 08:30 AM   #4
aron
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Natal Transvaal
Posts: 5,635
Default Re: Build a bridge and get over it

In extended musical compositions they'll have two components, or chord/rhythmic structures, and they "build a bridge" in between. Likewise the sinners need a bridge to the Holy God. Generically speaking, and generally speaking this bridge is Jesus Christ. Our faith opens the way, through Jesus Christ, to the Father.

But "Christ, Christ, Christ" is just a processed, blended smoothie. What healing power lies within the salve we crave? Reconciliation. Reconciliation to God, and to one another. And that reconciliation needs repentance, and forgiveness. Righteousness and justice need mercy and grace, or we all die. So there's an opportunity to find grace with God, by being merciful to one another, and receiving one another, just as God received us in Christ Jesus.

Funny thing is, the more I write about Witness Lee and Watchman Nee, the more I see myself. They're just guys like me (sorry, sisters), trying to do the best they can with what they have. Nee and Lee came of age post-Boxer Rebellion, and lived in a time where Westerners were universally despised and resented. And for good reason. Can you imagine the attitude of many Westerners, in China? For every humble servant of God, every Herbert Hudson Taylor -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Hudson_Taylor

- there might be ten or a dozen bureaucrats and wolves. And I don't just mean Christian missionaries, because there were soldiers, too; willing to shoot any Chinese who "rebelled". Merchants, trying to extract wealth. Government functionaries, establishing alien rules. On a whole, the westerners were hated and resented as much as the Romans in Christ's Judea. So "God raised up" Watchman Nee and thousands of Chinese Christians took Nee's proposed "Normal Christian Church Life". Then Nee found himself with a church to run, and his true colors came right out. But would I have done better? Probably not. So I don't judge. But hallelujah - suddenly it all makes sense to me.

Likewise Lee with the Jesus Movement in the USA, circa 1968. A host of young people came into see "something new, real, living and true". Eventually they got Daystar and the Young Galileans, Youth Propagation Groups and the New Way. But would I have done better? Can't say - not qualified to judge another's servant. But now I feel like I understand, more. The "storms" and "turmoils" and "rebellions" were a result of a clash of cultures, as much as anything. Lee had a set of expectations, shaped my millennia of Chinese cultural norms, and the Westerners didn't get it. So it repeatedly blew up. And they learned the hard way. All of them, including Lee.

By way of comparison, look at the Calvary Chapel of Chuck Smith. They started with 40 people in Costa Mesa California, they opened the door to young folk coming in off the beach with their guitars and long hair, and suddenly there were hundreds. So they built a meeting hall for 500, and by the time it was done and ready for the first meeting there were 2,000 gathered there! And how many "storms" and "turmoils" and "rebellions" did Chuck Smith and his group go through? Not so many. A few but not so egregious. Any group that grows so fast, with so many unstable people coming in (see, e.g. Lonnie Frisbee) -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lonnie_Frisbee

- is going to be buffeted by instability. But the new culture wasn't so alien, so the storms weren't so damaging.

I could go on, but you get my point. With insight, confusion lessens and there's peace, and the ability to let go. No need for anger, shame or fear. God is good.

And I do repent for my posts. Many of them were narrow, selfish, ignorant, judgmental, supercilious, even venal and poisonous. But I was trying to figure things out. Thanks for bearing with me, and sorry for the venomous nature of my writing, which probably exposes me more than anyone supposedly being examined, considered, or weighed. I must take responsibility for my own attitude. I get that. Amen, Lord.
__________________
"Freedom is free. It's slavery that's so horribly expensive" - Colonel Templeton, ret., of the 12th Scottish Highlanders, the 'Black Fusiliers'
aron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2015, 09:32 AM   #5
awareness
Member
 
awareness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 8,064
Default Re: Build a bridge and get over it

Oh stop beating your self up. You're not all that bad.

And Frisbee was a gay Christian evangelist. I've know gays in the past that were devoted Christians. I don't get it, but so be it.
__________________
Cults: My brain will always be there for you. Thinking. So you don't have to.
There's a serpent in every paradise.
awareness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2015, 04:08 PM   #6
aron
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Natal Transvaal
Posts: 5,635
Default Re: Build a bridge and get over it

When you consider Lee in the USA, you have to consider the Baby Boom generation. There were more live births in the USA in 1952 than in 1982, 30 years later (3.9 versus 3.7 million births). This massive influx of young people came of age and the Jesus Movement was spun off of the Drug Culture, Hippie and Freak era of the 1960s. Lee was perfectly positioned at the start of it, and they came in by the thousands. Literally.

AMCasci's testimony on this forum is indicative of what it was like. You'd go to one meeting, then quit your job and move to Cleveland or Anaheim or wherever. The Spirit was moving! Casci almost went into the Children of God cult in this manner, but was warned off by a friend. Who got warned off the LC? Basically nobody, circa 1965-75. So they poured in. Full of enthusiasm, open, willing to try and "enjoy" anything they were served up. They got served food, but just like a fowler's snare, the corn sprinkled on the ground had a hidden trap that grabbed them. By the time someone like RG or MP or an Anaheimian Blended was berating them for their lack of "vitality", it was too late. They were in, sold out, wrecked, for the LC - game over. Very hard to extricate. "You're in the (Chinese) army now", they were told.

But Casci built a bridge and got out. Many have similarly made it out. It can be done; God is good.
__________________
"Freedom is free. It's slavery that's so horribly expensive" - Colonel Templeton, ret., of the 12th Scottish Highlanders, the 'Black Fusiliers'
aron is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:13 PM.


3.8.9