Whistleblower

[Indiana]

Originally Posted by awareness

Bless you Nell for bringing up this matter.

And you are right, sexual abuse should be reported.

Does it happen in the local church? Yes. Even the founder of the local church, Watchman Nee, admitted to sexual abuse, and rape of sisters. He spent 20 years in prison for that, and illegal business crimes.

Seems power and sexual abuse run together.

Anyway, it can happen anywhere, and by those no one would ever expect.

And it should be reported, no matter of position and power.

Thanks again Nell.

I hadn't known about Nee having a serious moral problem till I read Lily Hsu's book. You could feel her deep sentiment and heavy heart in addressing the tumult that had left the church badly shaken involving her brother in Christ, Watchman Nee, and two of her sisters in the Lord - in incidents she determined to share candidly, and carefully. I have never heard of, or experienced, such a devastating scene of disillusionment and sadness in the church as what Lily depicts and brings to light regarding both government and church judgment in an upheaval and exposure of their brother of high regard, Ni Tuosheng.

Book: My Memories of Watchman Nee and the Shanghai Local Church

The opening quote stunned me when I first read it, and unless I missed something about Nee's sentencing, i think the report could be meaningfully adjusted for accuracy's sake, if someone has enough confidence in what could be changed. (And what I have shared here, or will share, someone please adjust, if necessary, for even a small point or mis-impression on this, a most humanly sensitive subject, on a potentially volatile thread.)

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Indiana

Book: My Memories of Watchman Nee and the Shanghai Local Church

There's a thread on it here on LCD :
http://localchurchdiscussions.com/vB...ht=lily&page=4

[Nell]

More from John Ingalls' Speaking the Truth in Love

ELDERS’ MEETINGS AND FELLOWSHIP WITH BROTHERS IN IRVING, TEXAS
December 1987

On Saturday afternoon, December 19th Ken Unger and I flew to Irving. I did not relate to him what the sister from the LSM office had just told us. On Monday, December 21st, we made an appointment to see Benson Phillips and Ray Graver in the morning. Having been intimate co-workers with them for many years, and knowing that they were aware of many things, we mentioned the concerns that we had presented to Brother Lee on December 12th, excluding the matter of the misconduct in the LSM office. We wanted especially to let them know how strongly we felt regarding the colossal mistake they had made in promoting and exalting the office and Philip Lee, starting in 1981. They said that they did not feel they had erred much. This really surprised and disappointed us. We tried to impress them how serious this matter was. They invited us out for dinner, and we decided to meet again in the afternoon to continue our fellowship.

Upon coming together we attempted amid protests to mention the matter of the misconduct in the LSM office. They steadfastly refused to hear about it, but we proceeded to speak. Ray Graver then quickly rose and exited the room. Benson (in whose home we were meeting) also rose to register his displeasure. We felt that they had knowledge relevant to the matter and wanted to confer with them about it. Benson admitted that the same sister from the LSM office (mentioned previously) had come to him in Taipei to disclose a related event, but he strongly protested our bringing this matter before them. They argued that this affair was exclusively under the jurisdiction of the church in Anaheim, and they had no business being involved. We felt, as we mentioned earlier, that it was more than local, and that since that they were leaders in the LSM operation, they could be consulted. Some time later, however, I apologized to Benson and Ray for this, feeling that if they chose not to hear, we should not have forced the issue.

Note that when the Church in Houston "disciplined" Jane Anderson as she described in her book, Benson had no problem attending this "kangaroo court" from his "locality" which at the time was Dallas. I suppose this "affair" was not exclusively under the jurisdiction of the Church in Houston, and that "jurisdiction" changes at the whim of the elders or at the convenience of the elders.

Nell

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Nell

They argued that this affair was exclusively under the jurisdiction of the church in Anaheim, and they had no business being involved. We felt, as we mentioned earlier, that it was more than local, and that since that they were leaders in the LSM operation, they could be consulted. Some time later, however, I apologized to Benson and Ray for this, feeling that if they chose not to hear, we should not have forced the issue. -- John Ingalls

Note that when the Church in Houston "disciplined" Jane Anderson as she described in her book, Benson had no problem attending this "kangaroo court" from his "locality" which at the time was Dallas. I suppose this "affair" was not exclusively under the jurisdiction of the Church in Houston, and that "jurisdiction" changes at the whim of the elders or at the convenience of the elders. -- Nell

Hypocrites!

They went to Whistler ski resort in BC, Canada to Quarantine Titus Chu and the Midwest.

They quarantined Dong Yu Lan from their LaPalma offices.

They play this "locality game" whenever it's convenient for them.

They later said that Philip Lee could not be disciplined by the Anaheim elders because he worked at LSM, and was not able to meet with the church there.

"Woe to you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside you are full of greed and self-indulgence." -- Mt 23.25

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Hypocrites!

They went to Whistler ski resort in BC, Canada to Quarantine Titus Chu and the Midwest.

They quarantined Dong Yu Lan from their LaPalma offices.

They play this "locality game" whenever it's convenient for them.

They later said that Philip Lee could not be disciplined by the Anaheim elders because he worked at LSM, and was not able to meet with the church there.

"Woe to you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside you are full of greed and self-indulgence." -- Mt 23.25

As you will see below, Philip Lee was excommunicated twice. The Anaheim Elders didn't "preside" over the meeting when Philip was excommunicated the first time. The church members did the deed without the elders.

Those in the Church in Anaheim who could no longer tolerate sexual sin in the camp are to be commended. There is another post on this forum regarding sexual abuse in the Local Church wherein the poster continues to say "Somebody needs to do something (about it)." Well, in 1988 somebody did something...the church.

The Storm Breaks
October 9, 16, 1988
...

The next Lord’s Day morning, October 16th, the same group of saints who spoke on October 9th came again obviously to prolong their denunciations. Godfred stood at the beginning and spoke, begging them to desist and allow us to continue our study of Ephesians. They interrupted him frequently, and he patiently answered their questions. Then we proceeded to read some verses in Ephesians and in a tense atmosphere some bravely attempted to share from the Word. Eventually the saints who were intent on speaking more problematic things begin to take over the meeting with much turmoil, upon which Godfred stood and summarily dismissed the meeting. About sixty percent of those attending, including the elders, left the meeting, leaving about thirty or forty, who remained and had their own meeting.

In our absence they stood and read 1 Corinthians 5 together, and took upon themselves to excommunicate a certain brother whom they believed to be guilty of gross misconduct. The elders had not done it so they did it. One of them then proceeded to tear up the announcements on the church bulletin board regarding the coming training and the Chinese Recovery Version, and threw in the trash some LSM books on display in the bookroom. This one called two days later and apologized for such unruly behavior, and we accepted the apology. Due to the chaotic condition we cancelled the evening meeting at the hall and met that night in homes.

...

EXERCISING DISCIPLINE UPON A BROTHER
November 6, 1988

During the months of September and October 1988 we had much consideration with all the elders in Anaheim regarding how to handle the problem of a certain brother and what action should be taken. It was a matter of serious misconduct on the part of the brother, and due to the ramifications of the affair Godfred, Al, and I, who were more familiar with the case, felt that church discipline should be exercised. Minoru and Philip, the other two elders, did not agree but said they would not try to stop this being done.

The date was eventually set for the Lord’s Day, November 6th. Minoru and Philip still dissented from the decision, but Godfred, Al, and I due to the serious nature of the problem, felt that we must go ahead to deal with it on the English-speaking side even without unanimity with the other two brothers on the Chinese-speaking side. The two brothers agreed to read our statements in the Chinese-speaking meeting, and then follow it with statements of their own dissenting from the action and explaining why. In the English-speaking side we would make our statement and follow it by reading the statements of Minoru and Philip.

Thus at the end of the Lord’s Day meeting, November 6th, Godfred stood and asked all the saints to read 1 Corinthians 5:6-11. He then said that in obedience to the Word of God we must ask all the saints not to associate with the brother being disciplined since we had sufficient evidence that he was such a one as described in 1 Corinthians 5:11. He then read statements by Minoru and Philip dissenting from the announcement. Of course it was a highly unusual step to take without the consensus of the brothers and indeed regrettable that all the elders could not concur in this matter. By this you may realize the situation among the elders and realize how strongly we felt about the matter.

After the meeting Godfred and I visited the wife of the disciplined brother and told her that this action did not apply to her or her children. She had come to the meeting in defiance of Godfred asking her not to come. She was greatly grieved, and we felt sorry for her.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Nell

The next Lord’s Day morning, October 16th, the same group of saints who spoke on October 9th came again obviously to prolong their denunciations. Godfred stood at the beginning and spoke, begging them to desist and allow us to continue our study of Ephesians. They interrupted him frequently, and he patiently answered their questions. Then we proceeded to read some verses in Ephesians and in a tense atmosphere some bravely attempted to share from the Word. Eventually the saints who were intent on speaking more problematic things begin to take over the meeting with much turmoil, upon which Godfred stood and summarily dismissed the meeting. About sixty percent of those attending, including the elders, left the meeting, leaving about thirty or forty, who remained and had their own meeting.

In the Midwest back in the late 80's, tapes of this meeting were received, so all of us heard about "chaos" in Anaheim. For me personally, I was never told why or what was the reason for the "tense atmosphere." Of course, no one I knew had received John Ingalls' account of events.

The official word from Titus Chu to all the Midwest brothers was simple and twofold -- How dare John Ingalls and the elders in Anaheim let their meetings get out of hand and protest the leadership of "our brother" Lee. Secondly, Midwest brothers were all encouraged to write "shame on you" letters to these elders, and voice their support for Brother Lee.

In a total vacuum of facts, it all made sense. It wasn't until 2005 or 2006 that I learned from Ingalls' account STTIL that Titus Chu was well aware of Philip Lee's history of abuse and molesting sisters, and his actions could only be construed as political. So much for TC's governing principle: "the mistakes of my spiritual father [WL] are none of my business."

Every worthwhile principle in life must also be governed by proper boundaries. "Mistakes" are mistakes, not the coverup of criminal activities. For example, if your father is beating your mother, and you see it, then it is your business to take some action to protect her. American society is now rife with this exact same scenario because those who should have taken action decided it was "none of their business."

In WL's case, it was far worse than merely saying it was "none of my business." Over a long period of time, WL actively protected his degenerate sons Philip and Timothy, who should have been fired from LSM and arrested, and then WL went further to slander and libel the whistle blowers, whose only "crime" was to speak their conscience and stand up for the children of God. Let's not forget that it was the elders in Anaheim who actually stopped the husband of one of Philip's victims from getting a gun and killing him.

This story reminds me of the Congressional "Shush Fund" we have learned about in recent weeks, with payouts to silence the victims of sexual abuse. Not only was the ministry of WL no better than the numerous Christian ministries he long had condemned, but his own ministry was no different than what we see today in rotten politics.

[Nell]

I heard this tape you mention, as well as JI spoke about it.

From John Ingalls, Speaking the Truth in Love

This is JI's account of the incident you described:

A VERY THREATENING INCIDENT
December 1987 – March 1988

In late December a brother in the church in Anaheim who had been severely damaged through the misconduct in LSM office was so traumatized psychologically that he sought revenge and took definite steps to execute a very grave act. (Thank God it never happened.)

Nell

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Let's not forget that it was the elders in Anaheim who actually stopped the husband of one of Philip's victims from getting a gun and killing him.

Did you see the video of that guy with 3 daughters reading to that slimy Larry Nasser doctor during sentencing. Another few seconds and he would have killed the guy. The judge was great, and let him go.

This is the kind of meeting that an honorable Witness Lee should have forced Philip to endure. Let all his victims rebuke him to his face, and shame Philip before all.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Nell

"jurisdiction" changes at the whim of the elders or at the convenience of the elders.

Absolutely! Just like wind, jurisdiction can change at a moments notice. In one breath "it's a body matter" and in the next breath "it's a local matter". Whichever is politically beneficial for the brothers at that moment.

[Nell]

You are right. But in this topic, it's a police matter. Sexual abuse wherever it occurs is a crime. In the church, it's a shame to the Lord's name. I pray for those who have been attacked, and have come onto this forum to tell their stories.

Nell

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Nell

You are right. But in this topic, it's a police matter. Sexual abuse wherever it occurs is a crime. In the church, it's a shame to the Lord's name. I pray for those who have been attacked, and have come onto this forum to tell their stories.
Nell

In the local church culture it's understood never get the police involved. If one does go to the police, it's received as one who is not taking the cross on the matter.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Terry

In the local church culture it's understood never get the police involved. If one does go to the police, it's received as one who is not taking the cross on the matter.

Taking the cross? Submitting to sexual abuse is not the cross. What a horrible and disgusting perversion of a most sacred spiritual truth. That has gone on long enough and it's time it stopped.To use the cross as a weapon against Christian women in order to service the fleshly desires of fleshly, sinful and corrupt men who are little more than wolves in sheep's clothing is beyond reprehensible.

It's a new day. It's time to call the police. Let the criminals "take the cross."

Nell