The Ground Of The Church

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Oregon

I have to agree with Toledo. God has put dear brothers in my work environment that have no association with the local church in any way. I’ve become quite close to these brothers and would miss them very much if they were no longer in my sphere of life.
God’s presence is certainly with all of his people but the oneness of the body locally should be more than just an “in the spirit” thing. The body is universally one…..it should also be one locally. All the believers in any locality being the one body should not be just a spiritual reality but should be practiced as such. The failure and exclusiveness of some should not cause us to depart from the truth spoken to us in God’s Word.

“so that there may be no division in the body” I Cor.12:25

Happy New Year!

The problem with the LC model was not with the failure of human nature, the problem was with the model itself. It was systemic. Retreating into spiritual generalities of things you think you see in the Bible does not help at all. You need to propose a model that works.

I say that the Lord will always need a failsafe to allow true seekers to follow him if "the church" in the city becomes so corrupt that splitting is the only way. Some of you have already split from the LSM-led elders in your city, and so produced a division. You feel justified in doing so. Regardless, the fact is you made "the oneness" subordinate to something else. Yet you still say the oneness in the city needs to be practical. But doesn't that practical oneness mean not breaking from elders no matter what?

Sorry, but you guys sound a little confused to me. You have an ideal yet you don't have a clue as to how to obtain it. Yet when others seek to go on without all the angst about "practical oneness" you judge them and their results as being inadequate, and perhaps stumble them.

I think you've defined "division" too strictly. You think division is two churches in one city. I don't buy it. You want one church in New York, but are perfectly happy with two churches in two small sister cities which are adjacent. Yet the two sister churches are "divided." Suppose there was one city the size of the two adjacent sister cities, then all of a sudden only one church reflects practical oneness, when really nothing has changed but political boundaries. Suppose there were three tiny towns all within a mile of each other. You would think three churches are perfectly fine, when in this situation only one church would serve the cause of practical oneness much better.

So you talk about "practical oneness," but really your thought isn't about practical oneness at all. That's just the justification. It's really about adhering to a pattern in the NT you think is binding, even though no reputable Christian teachers, other that a few Brethren teachers, and Nee and Lee, have ever taken the teaching seriously.

I'm reminded of the attractive woman who is never satisfied with her beauty, and so sits in front of a mirror all day reflecting on her imperfections, not knowing what to do about it. I'm also reminded of the whiny idealistic teenager, for whom the world is never good enough. Both are wasting their life.

Until you have blueprint, don't whine and blame others that your dream house isn't built.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Igzy

The problem with the LC model was not with the failure of human nature, the problem was with the model itself. It was systemic. Retreating into spiritual generalities of things you think you see in the Bible does not help at all. You need to propose a model that works.

I'm still thinking this "oneness paradigm" through. Personally I find it almost impossible to use the LC model of "dots and circles representing believers in the city." The model forces the believers to either "be the ones" or find those who are. The dangers just abound once the diagram is drawn up, but those are the original concepts of oneness presented by WN, hence an impossible dilemma exists.

Several years ago, when our LC became no more acceptable to my family to serve the Lord, and viewing a "battle" looming on the horizon over the matter of publications, I sold my house by the meeting hall in "the city" and move to a surrounding suburb. That was a way for us to visit other congregations, and not bear the inner turmoil of "being divisive" or meeting "in division."

[Oregon]

Originally Posted by Igzy

Happy New Year!

Some of you have already split from the LSM-led elders in your city, and so produced a division.

There is no LSM or any other kind of "local" church in the city I live in Igzy so I haven't created another division. All I am saying is that there is truth in the Word and I want to adhere to it and not explain it away somehow.