Now's good - byHismercy

[byHismercy]

Originally Posted by Drake

On this topic, for those who think that sin is some inanimate force like gravity as opposed to a personification of a sentient being as Brother Lee teaches why then does Paul describe indwelling of Christ and the indwelling of sin using similar expressions?

Galatians 2:20 "It is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me"

Romans 7:17 "It is no longer I that work it out but sin that dwells in me"

Drake

Drake, isn't it ironic that you and are using the same verse to prove our disparate points?
I believe it says sin dwells in in me....

And I believe you are translating "sin dwells in me" to "Satan dwells in me". Is that right? Why not just take the Lords word exactly as spoken, if it meant avoiding error, brother?

I mean, you would never substitute the name Christ for another name of your choosing, right? Sin isnt Satan, same way no other name substitutes for the precious and most high name of the Lord Jesus!

[Drake]

Originally Posted by byHismercy

Drake, isn't it ironic that you and are using the same verse to prove our disparate points?
I believe it says sin dwells in in me....

And I believe you are translating "sin dwells in me" to "Satan dwells in me". Is that right? Why not just take the Lords word exactly as spoken, if it meant avoiding error, brother?

I mean, you would never substitute the name Christ for another name of your choosing, right? Sin isnt Satan, same way no other name substitutes for the precious and most high name of the Lord Jesus!

Okay. Sin dwells in you. How does sin deceive you?

Drake

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Drake

Okay. Sin dwells in you. How does sin deceive you?

Drake

James 1.13-16: Let no man say when he is tempted, "I am tempted by God," for God can't be tempted by evil, and He Himself tempts no one. But each one is tempted, when he is drawn away by his own lust, and enticed. Then the lust, when it has conceived, bears sin; and the sin, when it is full grown, brings forth death. Don't be deceived, my beloved brothers.

[byHismercy]

One thing that seems consistent with the Lee/LC stance on Satan indwelling humanitys' flesh...is the seeming contradictory statements abound...Ex: Satan is not omnipresent, but indwelling all....Lee said it, but not really, what he meant was....

Then what God spoke in 1 Tim 6:20-21.....O Timothy, guard the deposit entrusted to you. Avoid the irreverant babble AND CONTRADICTIONS of what is falsely called "knowledge," for by professing it some have swerved from the faith. Grace be with you.

[byHismercy]

Originally Posted by Drake

Okay. Sin dwells in you. How does sin deceive you?

Drake

Hi Drake, can you give me the verse reference to this matter of sin deceiving us? I can't find it...but, I think I understand what you are saying...how can sin deceive if it is not a person.....in the same way, God let love be personified in 1 Cor. 13....love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way, it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.......vs 13 So now faith, hope, and love ABIDE, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

Here love is personified, yet we know it is NOT A PERSON, it is a fruit of the Spirit!

[Drake]

Originally Posted by byHismercy

Hi Drake, can you give me the verse reference to this matter of sin deceiving us? I can't find it...

Hi byHismercy,

Romans 7:11 "For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me."

Sin took occasion, deceived, and slew Paul.

Sin has been pretty busy.

Drake

[byHismercy]

Originally Posted by Drake

Hi byHismercy,

Romans 7:11 "For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me."

Sin took occasion, deceived, and slew Paul.

Sin has been pretty busy.

Drake

Ok thanks Drake, this is good. I am reading through this portion Rom 7. In vs 23 we see that the law of sin dwells in our members, and Vs 22 the writer delights in the law of God, and the law of my mind is mentioned as well, and 8:2 the law of sin and death. In 7:8 sin lies dead, then revives when the commandment came. In vs 13 God said THAT SIN MIGHT BE SHOWN TO BE SIN.

I think the Lord really wanted us to know SIN IS SIN. Really interesting, don't you think? He knew there would be a great confusion, an erroneous teaching....He is so very clear....

[A little brother]

Originally Posted by byHismercy

I think the Lord really wanted us to know SIN IS SIN. Really interesting, don't you think? He knew there would be a great confusion, an erroneous teaching....He is so very clear....

Well said! If Satan is dwelling in our flesh, this is certainly an important piece of information Paul would write about.

I always feel that God's wisdom is so wonderful that His mistery is not hidden as obscured parts in the scripture. Some are just there in the plain text yet many people are not able to see. And they try to build complicated theological systems and terminology on top to make the truth more difficult to see.

WL was particularly fond of saying "X is a person" as if it represents some higher truth or knowledge. And this habit is inherited by many LCers. I just did a quick search...
Sin is a person, life is a person, grace is a person, justification is a person, our oneness is a person, the "place" in John 14 is a person, the sower is a person, the seed is a person, the kingdom is a person, ...

It is like when God wants to tell us what to do by being specific, WL would hold us back by pointing everything back to the "person" so that we don't do anything and just "eat the Lord". Ends up many became sayers than doers.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by byHismercy

Hi Drake, can you give me the verse reference to this matter of sin deceiving us? I can't find it...but, I think I understand what you are saying...how can sin deceive if it is not a person.....in the same way, God let love be personified in 1 Cor. 13....love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way, it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.......vs 13 So now faith, hope, and love ABIDE, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

Here love is personified, yet we know it is NOT A PERSON, it is a fruit of the Spirit!

Why is it personified? Maybe because "God is love", and God is a person.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Why is it personified? Maybe because "God is love", and God is a person.

But there is no reference to God's love in this section of I Cor 13. This is the "better way" recommended by the writer for the saints in Corinth. This is exhortation and definition for their love to one another.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Ohio

But there is no reference to God's love in this section of I Cor 13. This is the "better way" recommended by the writer for the saints in Corinth. This is exhortation and definition for their love to one another.

One can replace the word love in 1 Cor 13 with God

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

One can replace the word love in 1 Cor 13 with God

This word substitution may sound "spiritual" to you, but not to me.

Perhaps this explains one of the reasons why TLR is so short of love.

Why is it that those in TLR only seem to love their own?

Jesus said we should love our enemies and love those who cannot repay us, but those in TLR only love those who come to their meetings. Just ask byHisMercy.

Like Jesus says, you have become no different from the Gentile sinners.

When so many testify on this forum that there is little love in TLR, perhaps the reality is that there is very little God in TLR. Go back and read the tragic story of byHismercy's excommunication, before you start playing these word games with us.

.

[A little brother]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Why is it personified? Maybe because "God is love", and God is a person.

Is "God is Love" equivalent to "Love is God"?

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by A little brother

Is "God is Love" equivalent to "Love is God"?

If it is "God's love is God" then yes. If it is "human love is God", then no. If we experience God's love then we experience God. The qualities of God cannot be separated from His person. Joy, love, peace etc, do not exist independently from a person.

[A little brother]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

If it is "God's love is God" then yes. If it is "human love is God", then no. If we experience God's love then we experience God. The qualities of God cannot be separated from His person. Joy, love, peace etc, do not exist independently from a person.

Then how could you deduce "Love" is a person? What actually does this mean?

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by byHismercy

Hi Drake, can you give me the verse reference to this matter of sin deceiving us? I can't find it...but, I think I understand what you are saying...how can sin deceive if it is not a person.....in the same way, God let love be personified in 1 Cor. 13....love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way, it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.......vs 13 So now faith, hope, and love ABIDE, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

Here love is personified, yet we know it is NOT A PERSON, it is a fruit of the Spirit!

Love is personified because the word love in Greek used in 1 Cor 13 is "agape" which refers to God's love. The point of 1 Cor 13 is not to define love but to apply God's agape love to their situation.

Now if (God's) love is not a person, then why does 1 John 4:16 say if we dwell in His love we dwell in God?

1 John 4:16 ...God is love, and everyone who dwells in love dwells in God