Local Church Discussions  

Go Back   Local Church Discussions > Extras! Extras! Read All About It!

Extras! Extras! Read All About It! Everything else that doesn't seem to fit anywhere else

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-04-2019, 07:57 AM   #1
stillseekingtruth
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 48
Default Guilt is eating at me like a starving rat

I canít take it. Iím consumed with guilt and fear. Iím convinced the sisters will find out that Iím speaking against the LSM and Iím going to Suffer.
stillseekingtruth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2019, 08:39 AM   #2
least
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 174
Default Re: Guilt is eating at me like a starving rat

Quote:
Originally Posted by stillseekingtruth View Post
I canít take it. Iím consumed with guilt and fear. Iím convinced the sisters will find out that Iím speaking against the LSM and Iím going to Suffer.
Luke 8:50.
But when Jesus heard it, he answered him, saying, Fear not: believe only, and she shall be made whole.

Dear stillseekingtruth, fear not.
You believe in The Lord Jesus Christ. He can save you.
He is our Lord and saviour, only fear Him. Only fear God.

The Lord Jesus himself teaches us how to pray. (Matthew 6)

9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

11 Give us this day our daily bread.

12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

stillseekingtruth, Our Father in heaven takes care of us in every aspect of our life. He leads us not into temptation but delivers us from evil. For His is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever.
This we 'Amen'.
-
least is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2019, 10:52 AM   #3
Sons to Glory!
Member
 
Sons to Glory!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 963
Default Re: Guilt is eating at me like a starving rat

Seek Him. He loves us. "Perfect love drives out all fear, because fear involves torment." 1 John 4:18

Are you in torment with fear? Then this applies to you. God is love & light. Does what you are experiencing feel like light or darkness?

Praying for you that you find Him in a real way and know His love!
__________________
LC Berkeley 70s; LC Columbus OH 80s; An Ekklesia in Scottsdale 98-now
Sons to Glory! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2019, 07:34 PM   #4
stillseekingtruth
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 48
Default Re: Guilt is eating at me like a starving rat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sons to Glory! View Post
Seek Him. He loves us. "Perfect love drives out all fear, because fear involves torment." 1 John 4:18

Are you in torment with fear? Then this applies to you. God is love & light. Does what you are experiencing feel like light or darkness?

Praying for you that you find Him in a real way and know His love!
Honestly itís the fear of man. and I have superstition that something bad is going to happen to me if the saints find out what Iíve done. And maybe God will be mad at me, too
stillseekingtruth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2019, 07:46 PM   #5
Sons to Glory!
Member
 
Sons to Glory!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 963
Default Re: Guilt is eating at me like a starving rat

Quote:
Originally Posted by stillseekingtruth View Post
Honestly it’s the fear of man. and I have superstition that something bad is going to happen to me if the saints find out what I’ve done. And maybe God will be mad at me, too
God loves you and is not mad at you! I can say that with scriptural & experiential certainty. Shoot mon - He loves you so much He died for you!
__________________
LC Berkeley 70s; LC Columbus OH 80s; An Ekklesia in Scottsdale 98-now
Sons to Glory! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2019, 06:25 AM   #6
Nell
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 999
Default Re: Guilt is eating at me like a starving rat

Quote:
Originally Posted by stillseekingtruth View Post
I can’t take it. I’m consumed with guilt and fear. I’m convinced the sisters will find out that I’m speaking against the LSM and I’m going to Suffer.
We know who the starving rat is, and it’s NOT YOU!

This is spiritual warfare and you’re in a FIGHT!

I once heard a young brother who, like you, was consumed with fear and guilt, intentionally misquote the verse as follows:

“Perfect fear casts out all love.”

A misquote for sure, but somehow revealing of his condition. He was gripped in fear and God’s love seemed far away.

Someone is lying to you. Someone is tormenting you. Who? Who is the “father of lies”? Who is the tormentor? God loves you but God’s enemy hates you! God is not the author of fear. Pray specifically to your Heavenly Father to “bind the strong man”. Pray to the Lord Jesus that he would protect and cover you from the father of lies. This is spiritual warfare. Satan hates you for telling the truth, and he knows his days are short. He will throw everything in his evil book at you, to make your life miserable and doubt the One who will shortly send him to the lake of fire. Again, this is spiritual warfare.

If you believe a lie, you will live a lie. You can’t live beyond what you believe. Don’t believe the liar...the father of lies! We wrestle not against flesh and blood and “the sisters” but against principalities and powers in heavenly places. You have everything you need, the truth of God’s word, to fight back! This battle has already been won!

Stillseekingtruth, this is the truth!

Nell
Nell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2019, 01:00 PM   #7
Terry
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Renton, Washington
Posts: 3,268
Default Re: Guilt is eating at me like a starving rat

Quote:
Originally Posted by stillseekingtruth View Post
Honestly itís the fear of man. and I have superstition that something bad is going to happen to me if the saints find out what Iíve done. And maybe God will be mad at me, too
A verse I commented on Facebook today from Proverbs 29:25
Fear of man will prove to be a snare, but whoever trusts in the Lord is kept safe.

This was my problem too as well may have been with others. Being fearful of man when I should have been fearful of God.
Caring too much about my reputation
Livelong relationships developed in the local churches
Relationships with my parents (which is still a problem)
Before I married I cared too much about my living situation in the brother's house.
All in all it was far easier to keep quiet than it was to speak up.
__________________
"Even a neutral has a right to take account of facts, even a neutral cannot be asked to close his mind or close his conscience."- Franklin D. Roosevelt
Terry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2019, 01:48 PM   #8
Cal
Member
 
Cal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 4,269
Default Re: Guilt is eating at me like a starving rat

What you are experiencing is 1000% not God. God does not operate that way. He doesn't condemn, he corrects. He doesn't accuse, he actualizes. He doesn't hurt, he heals. The fear you are experiencing is of Satan. Do not respect it. Get a book of God's promises or look them up on the internet and read the verses over and over. Pray them back to God. Stand on his positive love for you. God uplifts, he upholds, he saves, he does not tear down.
Cal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2019, 02:22 PM   #9
Jo S
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Ohio
Posts: 379
Default Re: Guilt is eating at me like a starving rat

Quote:
Originally Posted by stillseekingtruth View Post
I can’t take it. I’m consumed with guilt and fear. I’m convinced the sisters will find out that I’m speaking against the LSM and I’m going to Suffer.
Sst, by your introduction it seems you left the LC 4 years ago. May I ask why you are concerned about these sisters? Are you still in a relationship with them?

But just as Igzy said, God doesn't tear down. However, He is an all consuming fire. A stone structure won't be effected by flames, but any wood, hay, or stubble present in the house and on the property will be. God is like a fire. If you allow Him, He will burn up everything that doesn't provide real structure in your walk.

God is light. No darkness can stand in His presence, including fear. Maybe there are certain things in your life casting a shadow and standing in between you and the Lord that needs addressing? Could it perhaps be through this yoke you are maintaining with these sisters?...
Jo S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2019, 03:22 PM   #10
stillseekingtruth
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 48
Default Re: Guilt is eating at me like a starving rat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo S View Post
Sst, by your introduction it seems you left the LC 4 years ago. May I ask why you are concerned about these sisters? Are you still in a relationship with them?

But just as Igzy said, God doesn't tear down. However, He is an all consuming fire. A stone structure won't be effected by flames, but any wood, hay, or stubble present in the house and on the property will be. God is like a fire. If you allow Him, He will burn up everything that doesn't provide real structure in your walk.

God is light. No darkness can stand in His presence, including fear. Maybe there are certain things in your life casting a shadow and standing in between you and the Lord that need addressing? Could it perhaps be through this yoke you are maintaining with these sisters?...
Iím ashamed to admit I keep up appearances to maintain peace with my aunt and while I agree that the LC has many cult-like tendencies it is the only ďwayĒ Iíve known. I gave myself to Christ and the church (meaning the LC) to go to a denomination is worse than pursuing on my own. Itís like getting a divorce and not being allowed to Ďremarryí because the Ďdivorceí wasnít legit or hasnít Ďgone through.í Deep within I still hold onto that ridiculous belief that the LC is the only way. I donít even know why. Itís truly an enigma to me- these thoughts that consume and contradict
stillseekingtruth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2019, 03:39 PM   #11
Sons to Glory!
Member
 
Sons to Glory!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 963
Default Re: Guilt is eating at me like a starving rat

Quote:
Originally Posted by stillseekingtruth View Post
I’m ashamed to admit I keep up appearances to maintain peace with my aunt and while I agree that the LC has many cult-like tendencies it is the only “way” I’ve known. I gave myself to Christ and the church (meaning the LC) to go to a denomination is worse than pursuing on my own. It’s like getting a divorce and not being allowed to ‘remarry’ because the ‘divorce’ wasn’t legit or hasn’t ‘gone through.’ Deep within I still hold onto that ridiculous belief that the LC is the only way. I don’t even know why. It’s truly an enigma to me- these thoughts that consume and contradict
There's only one hope for you now. Yes, it's finally come down to this - You must trust God to rescue you!

Have you gone for a nice walk, or closed yourself "in the closet" and asked Him to shine light? If not, do it. If you have done this already, keep asking and know He will answer in His way and time.
__________________
LC Berkeley 70s; LC Columbus OH 80s; An Ekklesia in Scottsdale 98-now
Sons to Glory! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2019, 04:30 PM   #12
least
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 174
Default Re: Guilt is eating at me like a starving rat

Quote:
Originally Posted by stillseekingtruth View Post
I gave myself to Christ and the church (meaning the LC) to go to a denomination is worse than pursuing on my own. Itís like getting a divorce and not being allowed to Ďremarryí because the Ďdivorceí wasnít legit or hasnít Ďgone through.í Deep within I still hold onto that ridiculous belief that the LC is the only way. I donít even know why. Itís truly an enigma to me- these thoughts that consume and contradict
Two issues here: -

(1) What is the basis (in the bible) for 'giving oneself to Christ AND the church' ?
Ephesians 5:3
This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
In context: -
For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

Romans 12:1
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Marriage and divorce is between a man and a woman.
Not between a christian and a certain 'church'. Regardless of whether a 'certain church' is the only way or not.
(In the old testament scripture, wife and divorce is mentioned in relation between God and Israel. Pls correct me if I'm wrong here.)

II Corinthians 11:2
For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

Christ and the church is not married yet. It will happen as written in the book of Revelation. Revelation chapter 19.
(No mention of divorce happening between Christ and the church, correct me if I'm wrong).
-
least is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2019, 06:38 PM   #13
Cal
Member
 
Cal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 4,269
Default Re: Guilt is eating at me like a starving rat

Quote:
Originally Posted by stillseekingtruth View Post
I’m ashamed to admit I keep up appearances to maintain peace with my aunt and while I agree that the LC has many cult-like tendencies it is the only “way” I’ve known. I gave myself to Christ and the church (meaning the LC) to go to a denomination is worse than pursuing on my own. It’s like getting a divorce and not being allowed to ‘remarry’ because the ‘divorce’ wasn’t legit or hasn’t ‘gone through.’ Deep within I still hold onto that ridiculous belief that the LC is the only way. I don’t even know why. It’s truly an enigma to me- these thoughts that consume and contradict
This is natural because you've been conditioned to feel this way.

Actually, many LCers do not really know the Lord well. They don't realize how much their "walk" is just going with the program. Then when they try to operate outside of it, they don't really have the established relationship with God. So the transition is bumpy.

This is a real battle. I went through it. Just keep praying and keep going back to the word. I was serious about getting one of those little books that contain nothing but God's promises, and reading and praying them back to God every day.

But Jo S is right. YOU have to discover between YOU AND GOD just what HE is telling YOU to do, without the LR filtering or distortions. In other words, YOU have to ask, seek and knock until YOU YOURSELF break through to GOD. That's a relationship. Others can help, but eventually YOU have to find out what's REAL.
Cal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2019, 08:24 PM   #14
HERn
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 816
Default Re: Guilt is eating at me like a starving rat

From Terry. "All in all it was far easier to keep quiet than it was to speak up."

The book " The Silence of Adam" might help us men who choose silence when when the Spirit is yearning for honesty and speaking the truth in love.
__________________
Look to Jesus not The Ministry! Hebrews 12:2.
Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;
HERn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2019, 09:58 AM   #15
Sons to Glory!
Member
 
Sons to Glory!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 963
Default Re: Guilt is eating at me like a starving rat

This does bring up an interesting topic (which I've actually seen mentioned on this forum a couple times at least). That is, we are to give ourselves to Christ, but where does it say we should give ourselves to the church? Good question! So I've been thinking about this, and found myself thinking, "Well of course we should give ourselves to the church. Christ in in His body, and He gave Himself for the church, right?

But as the song says, "In Christ alone I put my trust!" So as with anything, if we focus on that instead of Him, it is a distraction at the very least. For example, we want the "church life" so we focus on that, and that becomes something apart - a distraction - from Him. (And I think that's been said on here too before - hallelujah for the "Wisdom" in the body!)

So Christ gave Himself for the church. Therefore if we pursue Christ, Christ in us will do the giving to the church. But if I try to work all that up apart from Him, it's no good.
__________________
LC Berkeley 70s; LC Columbus OH 80s; An Ekklesia in Scottsdale 98-now
Sons to Glory! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2019, 11:56 AM   #16
least
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 174
Default Re: Guilt is eating at me like a starving rat

STG,
"but where does it say we should give ourselves to the church? "

We ARE the church.

Christ gave himself to the church. Jesus died and resurrected. Ascended to the Father and made Lord and Christ. God gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him (the son) shall not perish but have everlasting life.
All the believers is the one body, the church, the body of Christ, the one new man, the bride of the Lamb of God.
Christ loves his own body, he nourishes and cherishes her.
The church is the bride. The bride is waiting for the bridegroom, not giving herself to herself.
A member of the body (the church) is already in the body; a part of the body does not marry (or divorce) the body.
least is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2019, 12:20 PM   #17
Sons to Glory!
Member
 
Sons to Glory!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 963
Default Re: Guilt is eating at me like a starving rat

Quote:
Originally Posted by least View Post
STG,
"but where does it say we should give ourselves to the church? "

We ARE the church.

Christ gave himself to the church. Jesus died and resurrected. Ascended to the Father and made Lord and Christ. God gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him (the son) shall not perish but have everlasting life.
All the believers is the one body, the church, the body of Christ, the one new man, the bride of the Lamb of God.
Christ loves his own body, he nourishes and cherishes her.
The church is the bride. The bride is waiting for the bridegroom, not giving herself to herself.
A member of the body (the church) is already in the body; a part of the body does not marry (or divorce) the body.
Correct. I don't think there is specific scripture saying we should give ourselves to the church. If there is specific scripture to that effect, please point it out. (if there was specific scripture about that, I'm sure various ones would try to use it to their advantage.)

The point is, we are to give ourselves to Him.
__________________
LC Berkeley 70s; LC Columbus OH 80s; An Ekklesia in Scottsdale 98-now
Sons to Glory! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2019, 12:31 PM   #18
Jo S
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Ohio
Posts: 379
Default Re: Guilt is eating at me like a starving rat

Quote:
Originally Posted by least View Post
STG,
"but where does it say we should give ourselves to the church? "

We ARE the church.

Christ gave himself to the church. Jesus died and resurrected. Ascended to the Father and made Lord and Christ. God gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him (the son) shall not perish but have everlasting life.
All the believers is the one body, the church, the body of Christ, the one new man, the bride of the Lamb of God.
Christ loves his own body, he nourishes and cherishes her.
The church is the bride. The bride is waiting for the bridegroom, not giving herself to herself.
A member of the body (the church) is already in the body; a part of the body does not marry (or divorce) the body.
Least, I recommend doing a thorough exegetical study on "the Bride of Christ" and what that all entails.

The typical interpretation that came out of Catholic mysticism where the church = the bride is built solely upon Paul's hyperbole in Ephesians 5.

The church was never explicitly called the bride in scripture. Since I've been on this topic as of late, this is another example of biblical eisegesis.
Jo S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2019, 05:17 AM   #19
least
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 174
Default Re: Guilt is eating at me like a starving rat

Hi Jo S
"The church was never explicitly called the bride in scripture. Since I've been on this topic as of late, this is another example of biblical eisegesis."

If you are happy to share what you've learnt about the 'bride' in the NT bible, I'll like to know about it. If you would post on this topic please start a new thread so that we don't hijack stillseekingtruth's thread.

least is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2019, 06:58 AM   #20
stillseekingtruth
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 48
Default Re: Guilt is eating at me like a starving rat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Igzy View Post
This is natural because you've been conditioned to feel this way.

Actually, many LCers do not really know the Lord well. They don't realize how much their "walk" is just going with the program. Then when they try to operate outside of it, they don't really have the established relationship with God. So the transition is bumpy.

This is a real battle. I went through it. Just keep praying and keep going back to the word. I was serious about getting one of those little books that contain nothing but God's promises, and reading and praying them back to God every day.

But Jo S is right. YOU have to discover between YOU AND GOD just what HE is telling YOU to do, without the LR filtering or distortions. In other words, YOU have to ask, seek and knock until YOU YOURSELF break through to GOD. That's a relationship. Others can help, but eventually YOU have to find out what's REAL.
It's so difficult to know what's 'real.' I so often find myself repeating Pilate's question, "What is truth?" What is it to believe? Where does our belief come from? How much responsibility do we truly have as man? The way that the BB's twisted octrine and scripture to make it sound like they were the final authority it audacious. Yet, I'm trapped. I'm caught up in the sticky web of lies and I can't distinguish what is true anymore. Where are you, Oh my God? Are you even real? Yes. I know He's real. Yes. I see Him in His word and in creation, but who am I? Why did God choose me? What is my reponsiblity in this relationship?
stillseekingtruth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2019, 07:05 AM   #21
stillseekingtruth
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 48
Default Re: Guilt is eating at me like a starving rat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo S View Post
Least, I recommend doing a thorough exegetical study on "the Bride of Christ" and what that all entails.

The typical interpretation that came out of Catholic mysticism where the church = the bride is built solely upon Paul's hyperbole in Ephesians 5.

The church was never explicitly called the bride in scripture. Since I've been on this topic as of late, this is another example of biblical eisegesis.
Wait! What? The church isn't the bride of Christ? We're not going to marry Him? Whoa...whoa...whoa....Are you to tell me then that we don't 'take a tour of the tabernacle' everyday? Is Christ really a type of the offerings? My little dinghy is shaking again and I'm about to get swept over by waves of frustration.

My predicament is that I read the scripute, but I understand it to be a puzzle filled with types and figures and a 'heavenly language' that I must interpret through the spirit. It says what it says, but what does it mean? What is the connotation of the passsages?
Oy Here I go again....down down down
stillseekingtruth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2019, 09:52 AM   #22
Jo S
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Ohio
Posts: 379
Default Re: Guilt is eating at me like a starving rat

Quote:
Originally Posted by least View Post
Hi Jo S
"The church was never explicitly called the bride in scripture. Since I've been on this topic as of late, this is another example of biblical eisegesis."

If you are happy to share what you've learnt about the 'bride' in the NT bible, I'll like to know about it. If you would post on this topic please start a new thread so that we don't hijack stillseekingtruth's thread.

Least, I addressed this topic HERE Starting at post #28.
Jo S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2019, 09:54 PM   #23
HERn
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 816
Default Re: Guilt is eating at me like a starving rat

Quote:
Originally Posted by stillseekingtruth View Post
It's so difficult to know what's 'real.' I so often find myself repeating Pilate's question, "What is truth?" What is it to believe? Where does our belief come from? How much responsibility do we truly have as man? The way that the BB's twisted octrine and scripture to make it sound like they were the final authority it audacious. Yet, I'm trapped. I'm caught up in the sticky web of lies and I can't distinguish what is true anymore. Where are you, Oh my God? Are you even real? Yes. I know He's real. Yes. I see Him in His word and in creation, but who am I? Why did God choose me? What is my reponsiblity in this relationship?
Why not ask the Lord to help you put all of the confusion and doubting away for just five minutes while you start reading the book of Mark in a version with zero footnotes. Read until you sense an emotion or a question and then talk to the Lord about what you read and the emotion you felt or the question you have. For example, let's say that while you were reading you felt love and appreciation for the Lord for His care for someone, you could tell the Lord that you feel love for Him for being such a compassionate Savior and ask Him to help you show compassion to someone, or to help you have faith in Him to see the compassion He shows to you. If you feel like He has not been showing compassion to you recently you can tell Him that also. Or you could ask Him a why or help me to understand question. Of course there are times to come to the Bible for serious study. If this doesn't work for you that's fine, it could be just my personality.
__________________
Look to Jesus not The Ministry! Hebrews 12:2.
Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;
HERn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2019, 11:26 AM   #24
stillseekingtruth
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 48
Default Re: Guilt is eating at me like a starving rat

Thank you. I find that when I read the bible (footnote free/not even the Recovery Version) I will pause to 'pray-read' and 'masticate' Jesus. It's not forced. It's not methodical, it's genuine. I believe that the Lord speaks to us, not audibly, but definittely through His word and through the saaints (not limited to the LR). Another thing I found is that there are differences between the translations and can give the text an entire different meaning. It makes it hard for me to understand what the author really meant. There is that verses, however, that the spirit teaches all things. Coming out of the LR I want to reject everything I've ever known, but I can't because some of it's true. A lot of it's true. But there is a lot that isn't.. Lord, help me take off my 'LR" glasses and understand the pure word. I'm learning that it's right to try to understand the bible. I don't have to just read it and accept it by pray reading and not use my mind. It's taking me forever!
stillseekingtruth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2019, 11:33 AM   #25
Nell
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 999
Default Re: Guilt is eating at me like a starving rat

When I was "coming out" and rejecting everything, the truth that remains is from God. Truth is truth because of God and not because of any man. In fact, whatever WL, or any other man, taught of the truth is perhaps their only redeeming quality and they deserve no credit. God was merciful to them.

"The rain falls on the just and the unjust."

Nell
Nell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2019, 07:53 PM   #26
stillseekingtruth
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 48
Default Re: Guilt is eating at me like a starving rat

This is so good. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but God's word will endure forever!
stillseekingtruth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2019, 12:26 AM   #27
Truthseeker
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 75
Default Re: Guilt is eating at me like a starving rat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sons to Glory! View Post
Seek Him. He loves us. "Perfect love drives out all fear, because fear involves torment." 1 John 4:18
Are you in torment with fear? Then this applies to you. God is love & light. Does what you are experiencing feel like light or darkness?
Praying for you that you find Him in a real way and know His love!
Yeah! Do you know LSM always feed us by fear not by love ? We always are under abusive and fearful environment not love. Do you think so ?
Truthseeker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2019, 09:04 AM   #28
stillseekingtruth
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 48
Default Re: Guilt is eating at me like a starving rat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Truthseeker View Post
Yeah! Do you know LSM always feed us by fear not by love ? We always are under abusive and fearful environment not love. Do you think so ?
Yes. Fear, dying to self, downplaying genuine and proper human reactions, robbing individuals of their right to reason, think, and make educated judgements. Especially as a sister. The sisters are second class and without a husband as your ‘covering’ you’re pretty much eaten alive. I remember at an SSOT when a sister asked if she could do the translation work because she spoke English and Portuguese and the bros said no because she’s a sister. Not long after I heard sisters translating the messages during a conference. How confused was I! So, did he mean only what was written and not spoken? I don’t know. Anyway, there was a video on Facebook yesterday, not there today, but the sister shared about her experience in the LC and how she was in an abusive relationship with her husband. She received no help from the elders and even told that she wasn’t “dead” to herself and that’s why she cried. Seriously??? Where do the bros get off? I know a sister from a locality I used to meet him whose husband was abusive. She went to the bros over and over asking for help. She was told to submit to her husband, go to the meetings, and get into the ministry. At one point she even asked her then sixteen year old daughter to commit suicide with her. Praise God He intervened! In a separate locality, this sister used to tell me how her husband was never home to help care for her and the children because he was always with the bros or caring for a young brother. I was told by an elder in my locality that she was ‘planting negative seeds’ in my mind and I have to be careful. There were other issues in the church she brought up about how the sisters always cook and watch the kids while the bros sit back, meet and eat. She was a successful doctor and that was frowned upon by the elder in my locality. Sad sad sad. So at one point (I used to babysit for her) she just randomly said that she is not allowed to talk about the church anymore to me. Ok. So whatever
stillseekingtruth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2019, 09:54 AM   #29
UntoHim
Grateful Servant
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,768
Default Re: Guilt is eating at me like a starving rat

Quote:
Originally Posted by stillseekingtruth View Post
I know a sister from a locality I used to meet him whose husband was abusive. She went to the bros over and over asking for help. She was told to submit to her husband, go to the meetings, and get into the ministry.
Unfortunately, I think this kind of situation is much more common then many of us ever imagined. Instead of "doing their job" and dealing with the obvious sin of the abuser, the elders demanded that the victim be silent and thus exposed her to further abuse. This was not only a patently evil and unrighteous thing to do by the elders, it was quite likely to be criminal.

Recently, in that meeting of 900 former FTTA trainees, Local Church PR man, Chris Wilde, boldly proclaimed that anything "criminal" will be reported to "the proper authorities". Probably too late for the hundreds of sisters and children you have been abused over the years. Better late then never? I guess we shall see.

-
__________________
Now Unto Him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy (Jude 24)
UntoHim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2019, 10:29 AM   #30
Sons to Glory!
Member
 
Sons to Glory!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 963
Default Re: Guilt is eating at me like a starving rat

To me this says the whole system of authority is badly out of whack! A couple years ago we were going through a section of the word (I think Ephesians) where it talked about wives submitting to husbands. But the lights came on and I saw that the administration of God's house is about love so that each member of the household got the supply they needed. This is true in both the temporal and spiritual realms. There just needs to be an order in the house, so everything is organized and everyone gets what they need. This is a matter of love primarily, and the structure is in place to facilitate that flow of love and caring.

To focus on the submitting and authority part is to miss the mark, and will result in legalism and death.
__________________
LC Berkeley 70s; LC Columbus OH 80s; An Ekklesia in Scottsdale 98-now
Sons to Glory! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2019, 10:52 AM   #31
Cal
Member
 
Cal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 4,269
Default Re: Guilt is eating at me like a starving rat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sons to Glory! View Post
To me this says the whole system of authority is badly out of whack!
Any church system which exercises the kind of presumptive control over people's lives that the LR does is ultimately destructive, regardless of whatever other "good" it does.
Cal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2019, 03:02 PM   #32
aron
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Natal Transvaal
Posts: 4,926
Default Re: Guilt is eating at me like a starving rat

Quote:
Originally Posted by stillseekingtruth View Post
Another thing I found is that there are differences between the translations and can give the text an entire different meaning. It makes it hard for me to understand what the author really meant. There is that verses, however, that the spirit teaches all things. Coming out of the LR I want to reject everything I've ever known, but I can't because some of it's true. A lot of it's true. But there is a lot that isn't.. Lord, help me take off my 'LR" glasses and understand the pure word. I'm learning that it's right to try to understand the bible. I don't have to just read it and accept it by pray reading and not use my mind.
Some of us have been physically out for years and are only now starting to consider what the Bible actually says versus what the RecV had told us it said. We wanted it to say something that it didn't, because someone else wanted that. They transferred their unmet needs onto us, that's the LR in a nutshell.

So take heart because you're probably far ahead of me in the race, relatively speaking.

"One of the most dangerous things in religion is unchallenged assumptions" ~Carter Roenhof
__________________
"Freedom is free. It's slavery that's so horribly expensive" - Colonel Templeton, ret., of the 12th Scottish Highlanders, the 'Black Fusiliers'
aron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2019, 06:04 PM   #33
stillseekingtruth
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 48
Default Re: Guilt is eating at me like a starving rat

Quote:
Originally Posted by aron View Post
Some of us have been physically out for years and are only now starting to consider what the Bible actually says versus what the RecV had told us it said. We wanted it to say something that it didn't, because someone else wanted that. They transferred their unmet needs onto us, that's the LR in a nutshell.

So take heart because you're probably far ahead of me in the race, relatively speaking.

"One of the most dangerous things in religion is unchallenged assumptions" ~Carter Roenhof
I dont know how far ahead I am. Reading Matthew today made me see how wretched I am, but there is still so much I don't get.
stillseekingtruth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2019, 07:34 PM   #34
Ohio
Member
 
Ohio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Greater Ohio
Posts: 11,865
Default Re: Guilt is eating at me like a starving rat

Quote:
Originally Posted by aron View Post
Some of us have been physically out for years and are only now starting to consider what the Bible actually says versus what the RecV had told us it said. We wanted it to say something that it didn't, because someone else wanted that. They transferred their unmet needs onto us, that's the LR in a nutshell.

So take heart because you're probably far ahead of me in the race, relatively speaking.

"One of the most dangerous things in religion is unchallenged assumptions" ~Carter Roenhof
You should spend some time in Pentecostal circles. They see Tongues everywhere in the Bible. If you have trouble with the Lee's assumptions, you would go crazy there.
__________________
Ohio's motto is: With God all things are possible!.
Keeping all my posts short, quick, living, and to the point!
Ohio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2019, 10:39 PM   #35
Nell
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 999
Default Re: Guilt is eating at me like a starving rat

Quote:
Originally Posted by stillseekingtruth View Post
I dont know how far ahead I am. Reading Matthew today made me see how wretched I am, but there is still so much I don't get.
SST,

You are right where God wants you. His timing is perfect.

You WERE wretched. Not anymore. Your Father owns the cattle on a thousand hills. Consider the Lillie’s of the field. They toil not, neither do they spin. But Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed as one of these! You are a child of the King. Don’t let anybody push you around! Your Daddy is bigger than they are! (I think that might be a verse...??)

Make a list of what you “don’t get” and put it aside. Continue in the way. Grow at his pace on his schedule. One day you will look back at this time and realize that He has either answered your questions or erased them. You don’t need to make up for lost time. Talk to Him. Tell Him you love him. Thank Him for rescuing you. Take a deep breath. What a God we have! Who could have masterfully arranged our days in such a way but Him?

Nell
Nell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2019, 06:48 AM   #36
aron
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Natal Transvaal
Posts: 4,926
Default A note on exegetical principles

Quote:
Originally Posted by stillseekingtruth View Post
I dont know how far ahead I am... there is still so much I don't get.
Those who wrote scripture, and their designated readers, didn't have degrees in theology, but they followed common - sense laws of logic, what we'd call conventional wisdom. To be sure there was mystery but even this did not depart from the trail of reason. Sometimes it just takes a while for our mind to catch up.

The danger is to think the scripture is about you.

"He shall protect you; and will allow no harm to befall you; and will set His angels over you to watch you, and lift you in their hands lest you stumble and strike your foot on a stone". The "He" is the Father, and the "you" is Jesus the Obedient Son. The NT pattern of textual reception is plain. It is not so esoteric.

The danger is to attempt to transpose our experiences and expectations on scripture, apart from Christ. Then we err in thinking "we" are the fulfillment, "our" enjoyment becomes our measuring-stick. It is a mirage. The RecV footnote would say, "This is the NT believer enjoying grace on the local church ground". Uh, no. Sorry.

The other error is to dismiss scripture. The psalmist said, "You rescued me because You delighted in me" (18:19). WL wrote "God did not delight in David the sinner", but Peter had already solved that puzzle in his exegesis on Psalm 16 - it was about Jesus, not David.

So don't get discouraged thinking that you can't make it. Jesus already worked the works of God. Your work is to believe in him. ~John 4:34; 5:19,36; 10:32,37 cf John 6:38 & 6:28,29.
__________________
"Freedom is free. It's slavery that's so horribly expensive" - Colonel Templeton, ret., of the 12th Scottish Highlanders, the 'Black Fusiliers'
aron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2019, 10:41 AM   #37
Sons to Glory!
Member
 
Sons to Glory!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 963
Default Re: Guilt is eating at me like a starving rat

Quote:
Originally Posted by stillseekingtruth View Post
I dont know how far ahead I am. Reading Matthew today made me see how wretched I am, but there is still so much I don't get.
I'll add my input here too . . . For me, the start of really seeing what was going on in the Bible was when I began to truly see God's love for us. Everything before that was sort of like reading the preface to a book. We can get some knowledge about God and His purpose from reading the word and fellowship, others sharing, etc. But I believe it's only when He begins to reveal His heart of love towards us that things start to make sense and come alive.

In the Recovery you hear a lot about His purpose as being the primary motivation - but what's behind His purpose is His amazing love! If you hear about His purpose without having some concept of His love (which He has to show), then you may think God will have His purpose and if I stand in His way He will just crush me without thinking twice. This is what I thought and this is an error. His purpose is to save us to the uttermost and bring us into sweet union and fellowship with Him. Yes, He wants to bring many sons into glory! This is His heart of love towards all of mankind, and is the key to understanding what He's showing us in His word. Never forget that.
__________________
LC Berkeley 70s; LC Columbus OH 80s; An Ekklesia in Scottsdale 98-now
Sons to Glory! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2019, 11:35 PM   #38
countmeworthy
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: in Spirit & in Truth
Posts: 1,241
Default Re: Guilt is eating at me like a starving rat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
You should spend some time in Pentecostal circles. They see Tongues everywhere in the Bible. If you have trouble with the Lee's assumptions, you would go crazy there.
NO KIDDING!!!
I have been all around the Christian community ďchurchesĒ. I wanted to believe speaking in tongues was from the Lord. It it only filled my thoughts with confusion. And God is not the God of confusion. They believe you can lose your salvation. Scripture disproves it, But we are not given license to sin. The Blood of Jesus has washed away all our sins. If we willfully sin, we can lose rewards at the judgement seat of Christ but not our eternal salvation.
__________________
Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
(Luke 21:36)
countmeworthy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2019, 12:04 AM   #39
countmeworthy
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: in Spirit & in Truth
Posts: 1,241
Default Re: Guilt is eating at me like a starving rat

Quote:
Originally Posted by stillseekingtruth View Post
I dont know how far ahead I am. Reading Matthew today made me see how wretched I am, but there is still so much I don't get.
God does not see you wretched. Remember. What you are reading in Matthew is probably before Jesus shed His Blood on the cross for us all. He is also speaking to the Jews.
Today He sees you as His beloved child growing up in Christ Jesus. He sees the Blood of Jesus in you and knows He has wiped away all your sins. And He does not remember your sins. He is making all things new in your life.

Tell Him to open your eyes to see Jesus clearly. Tell Him to open your ears to hear His Voice, the Holy Spirit clearly. And to open Your heart to receive His Truth with a grateful heart.

Meditate on Revelation 12:10 -12
Now is come salvation and strength and the kingdom of our God.
The accuser of our brethren has been cast down, who accuses us before our God Day and night, but we/ I have overcome him by the BLOOD OF THE LAMB and by the Word of our/my testimony,

Prayer: Thank You dear Jesus for Your Precious Blood has has put the devil in his place, under my feet where l can stomp on him with the Sword of the Spirit which is the Word of the Most High God.

Satan, look at the Blood of Jesus in me and flee! For the Blood of Jesus has defeated you and set me free from your clutches,
Thank You Lord Jesus Christ!
__________________
Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
(Luke 21:36)
countmeworthy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:41 AM.


3.8.9