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Old 10-17-2018, 07:10 AM   #4501
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I'm confused? You're all over the map. My buddy Peterson? I'm in denial?

Genesis 2:7 is not metaphorical. Genesis 2:7 is an historical record. Genesis 2:7 separates man from all of creation. Genesis 2:7 is what you and Darwin and evolutionary science completely missed.
Where does the Bible say it's an historical record?
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Old 10-17-2018, 08:22 AM   #4502
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Where does the Bible say it's an historical record?
The Bible starts out, "In the beginning, God created ..."

Sorry, zeek, but for you to ask such an absurd question causes me to question not just your faith, but your intelligence.

Hey zeek, just what do you really believe? Anything at all? Do you even question that the Gospels are historical records?
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Old 10-17-2018, 08:51 AM   #4503
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The Bible starts out, "In the beginning, God created ..."

Sorry, zeek, but for you to ask such an absurd question causes me to question not just your faith, but your intelligence.

Hey zeek, just what do you really believe? Anything at all? Do you even question that the Gospels are historical records?
How do you get that the Bible is an historical record from the words "In the beginning God created"? I think the gospels have a historical basis which is mixed with myth and legend.
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Old 10-17-2018, 09:28 AM   #4504
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How do you get that the Bible is an historical record from the words "In the beginning God created"? I think the gospels have a historical basis which is mixed with myth and legend.
The Bible is an historical record of events starting with "God created."

To claim that the Gospels or Genesis is "mixed with myth and legend" indicates that it is not the word of God to you and can be anything you want it to be.

That explains many of your posts -- actually a mixture of myths and legends -- cunningly devised fables dreamed up by zeek and his preferred list of "scientists."

Herein is the difference between us -- you think the Bible is mixed with myth and legend, while I think your posts and everything else written is mixed with myth and legend.
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Old 10-17-2018, 10:08 AM   #4505
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The Bible is an historical record of events starting with "God created."

To claim that the Gospels or Genesis is "mixed with myth and legend" indicates that it is not the word of God to you and can be anything you want it to be.

That explains many of your posts -- actually a mixture of myths and legends -- cunningly devised fables dreamed up by zeek and his preferred list of "scientists."

Herein is the difference between us -- you think the Bible is mixed with myth and legend, while I think your posts and everything else written is mixed with myth and legend.
The Bible never explicitly states that it is an historical record. That it is is a matter of Christian tradition.
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Old 10-17-2018, 10:25 AM   #4506
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May I put in my 2 cents worth of myth and legend?

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The Bible is an historical record of events starting with "God created."
That's the history of the universe, not the Bible.

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Originally Posted by Ohio
To claim that the Gospels or Genesis is "mixed with myth and legend" indicates that it is not the word of God to you
That brings back zeek's original question : "Where in the Bible does it say it's a historical record?" If the word of God doesn't say it means that it's not historical. So to say it's a historical record is extra-Biblical tradition.
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Old 10-17-2018, 12:20 PM   #4507
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The Bible never explicitly states that it is an historical record. That it is is a matter of Christian tradition.
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If the word of God doesn't say it means that it's not historical. So to say it's a historical record is extra-Biblical tradition.
That's *conveniently* an absurd standard to place on the Bible.

Genesis 2.4, for example, says, "These are the generations of the heaven and the earth when they were created."

Obviously an "historical" record, but you guys apparently read about this so-called "disclaimer" by some university moron ... err scholar like Ehrman ... and believed this nonsense.

Luke himself precedes two books with statements like, "draw up a narrative concerning these matters," but it's not "history" because he didn't use the right words. Seriously?

So when the Bible repeatedly instructs us that "these things were recorded," it is not actually an "historical record" because it did not use the words "historical record."

Are you guys really doubling down on dumb? You guys are better than this! Have you actually gone off the deep end with this PC talk? The LC was also this way -- i.e. you can't be a "real" church unless you call yourself "THE church IN anytown."
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Old 10-17-2018, 12:45 PM   #4508
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That's *conveniently* an absurd standard to place on the Bible.
Is it the word of God or not? The word of God does not say the Bible is history. Sorry. Don't blame me. Blame the Bible for not saying it.

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Originally Posted by Ohio
Genesis 2.4, for example, says, "These are the generations of the heaven and the earth when they were created."
Again, not speaking of the Bible. Look up the Hebrew word for heaven in that verse and you'll find it's speaking of the sky and celestial space, up there.

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Originally Posted by Ohio
Obviously an "historical" record, but you guys apparently read about this so-called "disclaimer" by some university moron ... err scholar like Ehrman ... and believed this nonsense.
Not true at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
Luke himself precedes two books with statements like, "draw up a narrative concerning these matters," but it's not "history" because he didn't use the right words. Seriously?
Where's the history of Jerusalem and the temple getting sacked by the Romans? Why not that history? Not much of a history book without that.
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Old 10-17-2018, 01:01 PM   #4509
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Is it the word of God or not? The word of God does not say the Bible is history. Sorry. Don't blame me. Blame the Bible for not saying it.
So the Chronicles of Israel's history and the book of Kings are not History books? The account in Genesis about the patriarchs that is not biographical? Judges doesn't tell us the history of the judges? Joshua doesn't tell us the history of Joshua? Esther, Nehemiah, Ezra, etc. These kinds of pronouncements from you always make me think and ask, why am I listening to this fool?
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Old 10-17-2018, 03:05 PM   #4510
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So the Chronicles of Israel's history and the book of Kings are not History books? The account in Genesis about the patriarchs that is not biographical? Judges doesn't tell us the history of the judges? Joshua doesn't tell us the history of Joshua? Esther, Nehemiah, Ezra, etc. These kinds of pronouncements from you always make me think and ask, why am I listening to this fool?
I'm not saying there's no history in the Bible. But it's no more a history book than it is a math or science book.

History in the Bible is a specific history. All the books of the Bible are written by Jews (with the possible exception being Mark. But even that is contested cuz we don't know who wrote it).

So if anything the Bible is a history of the Jews. And there is no history after the gentiles took over. So the Bible is a history of a time frame ; say from 1500BCE to 100CE.

And there's tons of history it never mentions. Where's the Greek history, or Roman? Oh,I forgot. It's a Jewish history.
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Old 10-17-2018, 04:51 PM   #4511
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I'm not saying there's no history in the Bible. But it's no more a history book than it is a math or science book.

History in the Bible is a specific history. All the books of the Bible are written by Jews (with the possible exception being Mark. But even that is contested cuz we don't know who wrote it).

So if anything the Bible is a history of the Jews. And there is no history after the gentiles took over. So the Bible is a history of a time frame ; say from 1500BCE to 100CE.

And there's tons of history it never mentions. Where's the Greek history, or Roman? Oh,I forgot. It's a Jewish history.
I think the Bible makes it very clear that it is a history that begins specifically with Adam and takes us even to a view of the future in Revelation.

The gospels are clearly biographical. The book of Acts is very clearly informative about the beginning of the church.

The epistles are also very informative giving us the detailed account of what the apostles taught, primarily Paul, John, Peter and James.

As for the history of the creation it is certainly a very, very brief account. But that doesn't mean that what it does say is not accurate.

No one judges a book by what it doesn't include. The fact that you have questions about Roman history that are not answered in the Bible does not in any way support the claim that the Bible is not history.

History is a story told over time. It is a way of recreating the past so it can be studied in the present and re-interpreted for future generations. based on this definition the Bible is clearly history.
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Old 10-17-2018, 04:58 PM   #4512
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That brings back zeek's original question : "Where in the Bible does it say it's a historical record?" If the word of God doesn't say it means that it's not historical. So to say it's a historical record is extra-Biblical tradition.
Anything that records the past is a historical record. In other words, the Bible has memory. The bible was not a historical record for those who recorded events at the time they happened. But for us today it records the past and is a historical record.

Take a shopping list for example. Today's shopping list is not a historical record. But put that list in a safe place for 10 years, then it becomes a historical record of what you bought 10 years ago. The list can also be used to infer what you ate at the time, it is likely that you made recipes with the list of ingredients.
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Old 10-17-2018, 08:08 PM   #4513
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I'm not saying there's no history in the Bible. But it's no more a history book than it is a math or science book.

History in the Bible is a specific history. All the books of the Bible are written by Jews (with the possible exception being Mark. But even that is contested cuz we don't know who wrote it).

So if anything the Bible is a history of the Jews. And there is no history after the gentiles took over. So the Bible is a history of a time frame ; say from 1500BCE to 100CE.

And there's tons of history it never mentions. Where's the Greek history, or Roman? Oh,I forgot. It's a Jewish history.
By your logic, every single book on American history IS NOT HISTORY because Slovenian or Estonian history is NOT included. Huh???

And, btw, the writer of the book of Mark is ... Mark!!!
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Old 10-17-2018, 08:24 PM   #4514
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By your logic, every single book on American history IS NOT HISTORY because Slovenian or Estonian history is NOT included. Huh???

And, btw, the writer of the book of Mark is ... Mark!!!
Books on American history are not history because they don't include the fact that America was first discovered by the Chinese and will be coming back in future to reclaim their land! That's how awareness'es faulty loigic argument is like the Chinese history arguments.
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Old 10-17-2018, 08:35 PM   #4515
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Anything that records the past is a historical record.
But was it actual history?

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In other words, the Bible has memory. The bible was not a historical record for those who recorded events at the time they happened.
Genesis was written and edited over a span of hundreds of years, beginning circa 1000BCE. None of the authors or editors were there for the creation, obviously. They were not recording events as they happened. The same could be said of Noah. None of the scribes were there. The stories come down from the oral tradition. And we all know what happens to oral traditions by playing the Telephone Game. The oral tradition was picked up and polished and improved upon over generations.

So to say, "The bible was not a historical record for those who recorded events at the time they happened," is to be mistakenly looking at it like there were reporters on hand, recording it as it happened. And that's not rational, nor realistic.

And what about any historical record of the great thinkers, like Socrates and Plato, et al? Oh darn. It keeps skipping my mind. The Bible is Jewish history, mixed with legend.
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Old 10-17-2018, 11:05 PM   #4516
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But was it actual history?


Genesis was written and edited over a span of hundreds of years, beginning circa 1000BCE. None of the authors or editors were there for the creation, obviously. They were not recording events as they happened. The same could be said of Noah. None of the scribes were there. The stories come down from the oral tradition. And we all know what happens to oral traditions by playing the Telephone Game. The oral tradition was picked up and polished and improved upon over generations.

So to say, "The bible was not a historical record for those who recorded events at the time they happened," is to be mistakenly looking at it like there were reporters on hand, recording it as it happened. And that's not rational, nor realistic.

And what about any historical record of the great thinkers, like Socrates and Plato, et al? Oh darn. It keeps skipping my mind. The Bible is Jewish history, mixed with legend.
If you are right does it change anything?
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Old 10-18-2018, 06:43 AM   #4517
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But was it actual history?


Genesis was written and edited over a span of hundreds of years, beginning circa 1000BCE. None of the authors or editors were there for the creation, obviously. They were not recording events as they happened. The same could be said of Noah. None of the scribes were there. The stories come down from the oral tradition. And we all know what happens to oral traditions by playing the Telephone Game. The oral tradition was picked up and polished and improved upon over generations.

So to say, "The bible was not a historical record for those who recorded events at the time they happened," is to be mistakenly looking at it like there were reporters on hand, recording it as it happened. And that's not rational, nor realistic.

And what about any historical record of the great thinkers, like Socrates and Plato, et al? Oh darn. It keeps skipping my mind. The Bible is Jewish history, mixed with legend.
Can you give me the post # from which you allegedly quoted "the Bible has memory" quote from me? I do not recognize this.
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Old 10-18-2018, 08:43 AM   #4518
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That brings back zeek's original question : "Where in the Bible does it say it's a historical record?" If the word of God doesn't say it means that it's not historical. So to say it's a historical record is extra-Biblical tradition.
Some of the names of the Bible historians are referenced here:

2Samuel 8:16
2Samuel 20:24
1Kings 4:3
2Kings 18:37
1chron 18:15
2Chron 34:8
Isaiah 8:2
Isaiah 36:3
Isaiah 36:22


References to other historical records are here:

1Chron 4:22
Ezra 4:15
Ezra 6:2
Esther 6:1
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Old 10-18-2018, 09:59 AM   #4519
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That's *conveniently* an absurd standard to place on the Bible.

Genesis 2.4, for example, says, "These are the generations of the heaven and the earth when they were created."

Obviously an "historical" record, but you guys apparently read about this so-called "disclaimer" by some university moron ... err scholar like Ehrman ... and believed this nonsense.

Luke himself precedes two books with statements like, "draw up a narrative concerning these matters," but it's not "history" because he didn't use the right words. Seriously?

So when the Bible repeatedly instructs us that "these things were recorded," it is not actually an "historical record" because it did not use the words "historical record."

Are you guys really doubling down on dumb? You guys are better than this! Have you actually gone off the deep end with this PC talk? The LC was also this way -- i.e. you can't be a "real" church unless you call yourself "THE church IN anytown."
The creation accounts in Genesis are without a doubt ancient Israel's stories of the world's beginnings. Are they scientifically accurate accounts of the origin of the cosmos, the earth or natural history? The overwhelming evidence of modern science says no. And the efforts of the young earth creationists and the gap theorists like Pember to reconcile Genesis with the body of scientific evidence are total failures. I don't see how you as an intelligent person cannot recognize this on some level.
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Old 10-18-2018, 10:00 AM   #4520
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Some of the names of the Bible historians are referenced here:

2Samuel 8:16
2Samuel 20:24
1Kings 4:3
2Kings 18:37
1chron 18:15
2Chron 34:8
Isaiah 8:2
Isaiah 36:3
Isaiah 36:22


References to other historical records are here:

1Chron 4:22
Ezra 4:15
Ezra 6:2
Esther 6:1
Like I said, Jewish history, written by Jews, who claim to be God's chosen race.
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Old 10-18-2018, 12:17 PM   #4521
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The creation accounts in Genesis are without a doubt ancient Israel's stories of the world's beginnings. Are they scientifically accurate accounts of the origin of the cosmos, the earth or natural history? The overwhelming evidence of modern science says no. And the efforts of the young earth creationists and the gap theorists like Pember to reconcile Genesis with the body of scientific evidence are total failures. I don't see how you as an intelligent person cannot recognize this on some level.
I agree that the interpretations that I have read concerning creationists and others are a total failure. They are really wrong.

But the error I feel is in the interpretation of the Bible. Not the Bible.
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Old 10-19-2018, 06:29 PM   #4522
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After 2 years of Fake News reporting by the Left, here is the preview for the big announcement:

Mueller report PSA: Prepare for disappointment

I have been telling you guys this for like ever, and you keep scolding me that Muller needs more time. When will you guys accept the fact that the Mainstream Media constantly lies to tha American public?
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Old 10-19-2018, 07:04 PM   #4523
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When will you guys accept the fact that the Mainstream Media constantly lies to tha American public?
Don't know the you guys that you're addressing, but I realized that during the fake news, by all but one, including Fox, and those on the left, supporting going into war with Iraq.
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Old 10-19-2018, 09:08 PM   #4524
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After 2 years of Fake News reporting by the Left, here is the preview for the big announcement:

Mueller report PSA: Prepare for disappointment

I have been telling you guys this for like ever, and you keep scolding me that Muller needs more time. When will you guys accept the fact that the Mainstream Media constantly lies to tha American public?
Fitting that you would attack the media after your idol Trump praised a congressman for body-slamming a journalist who was just doing his job and your Idol and his administration are assisting in the cover-up of his Saudi Arabian prince buddy's apparent hit job on a journalist. Coincidentally the journalist works for the Washington Post who you and Trump and Saudi Arabia hate. So score another win for the Team Trump in the war on against the First Amendment freedom. Hooray for your side.
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Old 10-19-2018, 09:27 PM   #4525
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Fitting that you would attack the media after your idol Trump praised a congressman for body-slamming a journalist who was just doing his job and your Idol and his administration are assisting in the cover-up of his Saudi Arabian prince buddy's apparent hit job on a journalist. Coincidentally the journalist works for the Washington Post who you and Trump and Saudi Arabia hate. So score another win for the Team Trump in the war on against the First Amendment freedom. Hooray for your side.
Never an honest moment zeek?

Still grasping at idols to divert attention away from your savior Muller.

Better go back and erase a hundred posts of yours claiming Muller will get Trump, your sworn enemy.

And now you are blaming Trump for the murder of a Saudi in Turkey? I think you should see a shrink. Trump Derangement Hatred has made you crazy.
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Old 10-19-2018, 09:28 PM   #4526
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Don't know the you guys that you're addressing, but I realized that during the fake news, by all but one, including Fox, and those on the left, supporting going into war with Iraq.
War in Iraq?
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Old 10-20-2018, 05:32 AM   #4527
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Saudi Arabia says journalist Jamal Khashoggi is Dead; 18 Are Arrested
Mr. Khashoggi was strangled after a fistfight, officials said

Trump said that Saudi Arabia’s statements were credible. He added he would consider “some form of sanction” but would prefer it didn’t involve arm sales. So far it looks like Trump is going along with the cover-up.
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Old 10-20-2018, 05:58 AM   #4528
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Saudi Arabia says journalist Jamal Khashoggi is Dead; 18 Are Arrested
Mr. Khashoggi was strangled after a fistfight, officials said

Trump said that Saudi Arabia’s statements were credible. He added he would consider “some form of sanction” but would prefer it didn’t involve arm sales. So far it looks like Trump is going along with the cover-up.
You never seemed to care this much when Christians were slaughtered in the Mideast or Pastors wrongly inprisoned. Of course, the media can't spin these stories against Trump.

I wonder why you have so much hate for Trump, and so little concern for suffering Christians.
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Old 10-20-2018, 08:50 AM   #4529
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zeek's hypocrisy exposed ...

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Trump said that Saudi Arabia’s statements were credible. He added he would consider “some form of sanction” but would prefer it didn’t involve arm sales. So far it looks like Trump is going along with the cover-up.
But ... Look How Obama Treated Slain Journalists

Charlie Hebdo Journalists should not be slain by authoritarians, tyrants, or ideological fanatics for their views, but they have been, and in the case of President Obama with an attitude of callous indifference. Has the media forgotten the attack on the offices of the French satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo, which, along with a deli attacked at the same time, the Obama administration dismissed as the victims just being in the wrong place at the wrong time?

The lives of the four Jews killed in a kosher market in Paris were dismissed by Obama as "a bunch of folks in a deli" shot "randomly" as they happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. After the attack on that kosher market and on Charlie Hebdo, President Obama didn’t have time to join other world leaders in a moving protest march in the streets of Paris. He did have time to watch an NFL playoff game and welcome the San Antonio Spurs to the White House.

James Foley After issuing a perfunctory condemnation of the Islamic State’s beheading of American journalist James Foley, President Obama was moments later on a golf course. The realities of dealing with Islamic terrorism, a phrase that cannot cross his lips, could not be allowed to disturb a President who was contemplating the threat of climate change as he works to correct his slice.

Not only did Obama go golfing after James Foley’s execution, he didn’t do all that much to prevent it, according to Foley’s family:The Obama administration failed James Foley in the 21 months before the journalist was savagely executed, the dead man's brother charged. Michael Foley said the beheading of his sibling by Islamic State (ISIS) jihadists should change America's handling of similar cases in the future."There's more that could have been done directly on Jim's behalf," Michael Foley said in a shot at the White House. "I really, really hope that Jim's death pushes us to take another look at our approach to terrorist and hostage negotiation."

Obama: Too Busy? Our delusional former commander-in-chief, who still believes the massacre at Ft. Hood by jihadist Nidal Hasan is a case of “workplace violence” and that the Charlie Hebdo/deli massacre in Paris was a case of random violence and of victims being in the wrong place at the wrong time pathetically proclaimed at the G-20 Conference in Antalaya, Turkey, as the Federalist reports:
“What I’m not interested in doing is posing or pursuing some notion of American leadership or America winning or whatever other slogans they come up with that has no relationship to what is actually going to work to protect the American people and to protect the people in the region who are getting killed and to protect our allies and people like France,” Obama said. “I’m too busy for that.”
Too busy, the same way you were too busy resting up for a Las Vegas fundraiser the night Ambassador Christopher Stevens, Glen Doherty, Tyrone Woods, and Sean Smith were murdered by a terrorist attack in Benghazi, an attack you and your Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton, told the parents of the deal was caused by a video?
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Old 10-20-2018, 09:21 AM   #4530
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War in Iraq?
What? You thought Trump invented Fake News? Cheney & Bush were using it long before Trump started using it.
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Old 10-20-2018, 09:26 AM   #4531
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What? You thought Trump invented Fake News? Cheney & Bush were using it long before Trump started using it.
CNNABCCBSNBCNYTWAPOMSNBCPBS all invented fake news to victimize conservatives.
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Old 10-20-2018, 09:31 AM   #4532
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CNNABCCBSNBCNYTWAPOMSNBCPBS all invented fake news to victimize conservatives.
All the fake news today can be traced back to Trump. Is that what you mean?
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Old 10-20-2018, 10:20 AM   #4533
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All the fake news today can be traced back to Trump. Is that what you mean?
Donald Trump More Popular than Media Want You to Believe
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Old 10-20-2018, 01:19 PM   #4534
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I get it. Trump can't stop blowing his own horn so I can't miss it :

He's the most popular ever in history. And bro Ohio is a happy member of his cult following ... pumping actively to make him even more popular ... like a Puffer Fish.
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Old 10-21-2018, 09:20 AM   #4535
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Remind you of anything? :

Did a hypnotist who treated Adolf Hitler for shell shock in 1918 by using his 'desire to be like a God' help spark the Second World War?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ld-War-II.html
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Old 10-21-2018, 10:16 AM   #4536
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Remind you of anything? :

Did a hypnotist who treated Adolf Hitler for shell shock in 1918 by using his 'desire to be like a God' help spark the Second World War?
Reminded me of that Lousy-Ford lady who used hypnotism in an attempt to destroy the reputation of Justice Kavanaugh.
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Old 10-21-2018, 12:48 PM   #4537
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Remind you of anything? :

Did a hypnotist who treated Adolf Hitler for shell shock in 1918 by using his 'desire to be like a God' help spark the Second World War?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ld-War-II.html
The false prophet builds his entire structure on the foundation of a "fabricated story".
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Old 10-21-2018, 07:00 PM   #4538
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Mike Salas, a life and professional counselor based in Texas, said he has seen a rise in clients who have fear and anxiety about the end times since the 2016 U.S. presidential election.

Haha, lol. Even the rich secularists are expecting the apocalypse.

A site from one of them :
https://www.alternet.org/psychologis...aring-end-days
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Old 10-22-2018, 05:57 AM   #4539
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"At a time when the entire world is aghast at President Trump’s delay in condemning the Saudi murder of a Washington Post journalist and horrified at his praise in Montana on Thursday of the unprovoked assault on a US journalist by congressman Greg Gianforte, a lawsuit has been filed alleging that president has been acting unconstitutionally in using powers of the federal government to intimidate and stifle the freedom of the press. The lawsuit claims Trump’s actions:
'stifle exercise of the constitutional protections of free speech and a free press. Through retaliatory directives to officials in his Administration and credible public threats to use his government powers against news organizations and journalists… the President has violated the First Amendment and his oath to uphold the Constitution.'"
https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevede...g#286c818c795f
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Old 10-22-2018, 06:10 AM   #4540
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"At a time when the entire world is aghast at President Trump’s delay in condemning the Saudi murder of a Washington Post journalist and horrified at his praise in Montana on Thursday of the unprovoked assault on a US journalist by congressman Greg Gianforte, a lawsuit has been filed alleging that president has been acting unconstitutionally in using powers of the federal government to intimidate and stifle the freedom of the press. The lawsuit claims Trump’s actions:
'stifle exercise of the constitutional protections of free speech and a free press. Through retaliatory directives to officials in his Administration and credible public threats to use his government powers against news organizations and journalists… the President has violated the First Amendment and his oath to uphold the Constitution.'"
At a time when the entire world is aghast?

I was at two neighborhood parties the other day, and not one person even knew about it.

zeek: definition, "a perpetrator of the sensational and the fake side of news; synonym: a carnival barker."
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Old 10-22-2018, 10:44 AM   #4541
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At a time when the entire world is aghast?

I was at two neighborhood parties the other day, and not one person even knew about it.

zeek: definition, "a perpetrator of the sensational and the fake side of news; synonym: a carnival barker."
Pot Kettle. Lock her up! Lock her up! Lock her up! -- Build the wall! Build the wall! Build the wall! ... sounds like carnival barkers to me.
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Old 10-22-2018, 03:44 PM   #4542
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25% of students say they were traumatized by the 2016 election, study says

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...tudy-says.html
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Old 10-22-2018, 04:12 PM   #4543
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I realized recently that the Dredd Scott decision by the Supreme court is very similar to the Roe v Wade decision.

Both were political attempts by the Supreme court to do an end run around the constitution and legislate laws saying that the Constitution legalized Slavery in every state or legalized abortion in every state. The idea in both cases was to attempt to paper over a divisive issue involving righteousness.

The Dredd Scott decision was probably the fork in the road where the Civil war was inevitable.

Interesting that we are now equally turbulent as then.
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Old 10-22-2018, 09:24 PM   #4544
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This will perhaps be more to your liking :

Christian author: Trump is under attack from ‘multidimensional Luciferian advanced beings:

http://deadstate.org/christian-autho...PVtWWe1Z7fqEUo
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Old 10-22-2018, 09:46 PM   #4545
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I realized recently that the Dredd Scott decision by the Supreme court is very similar to the Roe v Wade decision.

Both were political attempts by the Supreme court to do an end run around the constitution and legislate laws saying that the Constitution legalized Slavery in every state or legalized abortion in every state. The idea in both cases was to attempt to paper over a divisive issue involving righteousness.

The Dredd Scott decision was probably the fork in the road where the Civil war was inevitable.

Interesting that we are now equally turbulent as then.
Excellent point. And judicial activism on the high court is perhaps the single most important consideration for constitutional conservatives.
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Old 10-23-2018, 08:12 AM   #4546
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Excellent point. And judicial activism on the high court is perhaps the single most important consideration for constitutional conservatives.
And there will be plenty of it, now that conservatives have majority.
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Old 10-23-2018, 08:59 AM   #4547
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And there will be plenty of it, now that conservatives have majority.
We have no idea how Justices will vote on the SCOTUS. Governor Sununu picked by Bush 41 was convinced that Souter was a "reliable conservative." Look how that turned out. Reagan picked Kennedy after Bork got borked, and that was a disaster for social conservatives. I could go on ...

Conservatives merely recognize the incredible and enduring brilliance in the Constitution, and would like it to remain part of our legal system. The Left, however, are violently against it, preferring socialism.

If the Senate picks up a stronger majority, and Trump does not make the disastrous mistake of selecting one for his cabinet, (think AG Sessions) then he will be able to select a 6th Justice like Amy Barrett when RBG gives up the ghost.
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Old 10-24-2018, 12:26 PM   #4548
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Brother Ohio, based on your posts out here, you're prolly delighted that liberals are being targeted with pipe bombs.
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Old 10-24-2018, 02:31 PM   #4549
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Brother Ohio, based on your posts out here, you're prolly delighted that liberals are being targeted with pipe bombs.
Really? In what posts does Ohio indicate that he delights in terrorism, pipe bombs, or threats of violence?
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Old 10-24-2018, 04:22 PM   #4550
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Really? In what posts does Ohio indicate that he delights in terrorism, pipe bombs, or threats of violence?
Oh forget it. The pipe bombs are only false flags, planted by liberal democrats.
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Old 10-24-2018, 04:36 PM   #4551
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Oh forget it. The pipe bombs are only false flags, planted by liberal democrats.
wouldn't it be more reasonable to suspect the Russians or Chinese?
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Old 10-24-2018, 06:49 PM   #4552
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Oh forget it. The pipe bombs are only false flags, planted by liberal democrats.
Starting to look like that.

But we'll have to wait for the investigation to run it's course.

But who sends out a bunch of bombs that never were intended to blow up?

Obviously intended only to create fear and sway public opinion.
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Old 10-24-2018, 07:30 PM   #4553
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Starting to look like that.

But we'll have to wait for the investigation to run it's course.

But who sends out a bunch of bombs that never were intended to blow up?

Obviously intended only to create fear and sway public opinion.
The return address proves this was obviously a political stunt designed to influence the election. The skill at making something like this indicates military training. The scope of all the bombs sent indicates an organization.

I am guessing the Russians.
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Old 10-24-2018, 07:57 PM   #4554
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The return address proves this was obviously a political stunt designed to influence the election. The skill at making something like this indicates military training. The scope of all the bombs sent indicates an organization.

I am guessing the Russians.
... ...or a 700 pound guy living in his mom's basement...
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Old 10-24-2018, 08:47 PM   #4555
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... ...or a 700 pound guy living in his mom's basement...
No way. The unabomber was meticulous, careful, smart, and forensically savvy. As a result it took him months, even years between bombs.

If this is some fat wannabe the police will be arresting him in 48 hours.

No way some loser in his mom's basement sends all of these bombs in a single day and isn't caught. This looks like an organization to me.

Unexploded bombs? That is total arrogance. If we can figure out who made them from fragments after an explosion, imagine being given a bunch of unexploded ones with all the wrappings.

Whoever did this was hitting a hornets nest with a baseball bat, they don't care which way the hornets fly.

The mad bomber, the unabomber, they all had an internal rage. This person doesn't have any rage at all, simply trying to provoke.
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Old 10-24-2018, 09:22 PM   #4556
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The return address proves this was obviously a political stunt designed to influence the election. The skill at making something like this indicates military training. The scope of all the bombs sent indicates an organization.

I am guessing the Russians.
The Russians seem to prefer chemicals. I would give them far more respect than these inept devices display.

Seriously though, all the news coming out seems to indicate that none of these was actually a bomb. One pro commented that the photo circulating from CNN seemed more like a stage prop. And how in the world did Jim Acosta get to take a picture of this faux-bomb?

I would guess that the level of professionalism to be found in these devices has more to do with hiding evidence than with actual explosive capability.
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Old 10-24-2018, 09:27 PM   #4557
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... ...or a 700 pound guy living in his mom's basement...
Hey zeek, why is it your boy governor Gillum is so easily purchased?

He'll give you anything you want for tickets to Hamilton.

Thousand bucks a seat! Was it really worth it?

Do the right thing and vote for a man of character -- DeSantis.
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Old 10-25-2018, 05:56 AM   #4558
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The Russians seem to prefer chemicals. I would give them far more respect than these inept devices display.

Seriously though, all the news coming out seems to indicate that none of these was actually a bomb. One pro commented that the photo circulating from CNN seemed more like a stage prop. And how in the world did Jim Acosta get to take a picture of this faux-bomb?

I would guess that the level of professionalism to be found in these devices has more to do with hiding evidence than with actual explosive capability.
The information I saw was that these were bombs, and that they were carefully designed to not explode. You are not going to get 100 NYPD and the governor involved in a faux bomb threat. NY does not have any agenda to be viewed as a dangerous place full of bombs.

Although they were not the typical MO of the Russians you are comparing apples and oranges. Whoever did this was not planning on hurting anyone. When the Russians use poison or plutonium they are planning on killing. Once again this looks completely staged. Bombers as a rule have a lot of rage burning white hot. This on the other hand does not express rage. Second the ridiculous return addresses are as blatant a political statement as you can imagine. Bombers have always been trying to make a statement, in fact it is usually resorting to bombs when no one will listen. The statement here seems clear -- remember how much you hate Clinton and the Democratic party.

On the other hand targeting everyone that Trump has singled out, particularly CNN insures that there is a lot of coverage discussing his irresponsible behavior.

Looks like an attempt to provoke ugly discourse on both sides and to make the political process that much uglier. For example look at Awareness post that conservatives are delighted with terrorist attacks, and Zeek's comment reminding us of Trump's accusation of fat guys living in their parents basement.
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Old 10-25-2018, 06:42 AM   #4559
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The information I saw was that these were bombs, and that they were carefully designed to not explode. You are not going to get 100 NYPD and the governor involved in a faux bomb threat. NY does not have any agenda to be viewed as a dangerous place full of bombs.

Although they were not the typical MO of the Russians you are comparing apples and oranges. Whoever did this was not planning on hurting anyone. When the Russians use poison or plutonium they are planning on killing. Once again this looks completely staged. Bombers as a rule have a lot of rage burning white hot. This on the other hand does not express rage. Second the ridiculous return addresses are as blatant a political statement as you can imagine. Bombers have always been trying to make a statement, in fact it is usually resorting to bombs when no one will listen. The statement here seems clear -- remember how much you hate Clinton and the Democratic party.
I guess you are right -- all evidence points to me.

I never did agree with the Dems abortion policies, and I dont know a thing about making bombs either.

Pretty conclusive. I can see why you teach forensicks. (Sic)
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Old 10-25-2018, 08:29 AM   #4560
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Hey zeek, why is it your boy governor Gillum is so easily purchased?

He'll give you anything you want for tickets to Hamilton.

Thousand bucks a seat! Was it really worth it?

Do the right thing and vote for a man of character -- DiSantis.
A guy who voted for a pussy grabbing, con artist, and pathological liar shouldn't be talking about integrity.
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Old 10-25-2018, 08:53 AM   #4561
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Joe Biden, Robert Deniro, The Associated Press reported that X-rays showed the package contained a device similar to those addressed to former President Barack Obama, former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, ex-CIA Director John Brennan, former Attorney General Eric Holder, Rep. Maxine Waters, D-Calif., and billionaire philanthropist George Soros. Also, CNN. That is 9 packages and counting. That is a lot.

In simple terms, real bombers bomb; they don’t make bomb threats.
In talking to a colleague from the ATFE, I asked him how many bomb threats he had responded to over his 30-plus year-career, where he had found a real bomb and he said, “Zero.” (https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...-threat-makers)

So what was this, was it a "bombing" or a "threat"? This is why this appears staged by real hunters. A real hunter doesn't know how to "howl" so they simply made a bomb that wouldn't explode, yet those who actually make bomb threats don't know how to make bombs.
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Old 10-25-2018, 08:54 AM   #4562
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A guy who voted for a pussy grabbing, con artist, and pathological liar shouldn't be talking about integrity.
That is a deflection, didn't answer the question.
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Old 10-25-2018, 09:26 AM   #4563
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A guy who voted for a pussy grabbing, con artist, and pathological liar shouldn't be talking about integrity.
Typical Leftist strategy -- bear false witness without a shred of evidence. You left out, however, many of your usual accusations.

Didn't you used to be a Christian? How can you publicly break the 9th Commandment.
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Old 10-25-2018, 11:57 AM   #4564
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Typical Leftist strategy -- bear false witness without a shred of evidence. You left out, however, many of your usual accusations.

Didn't you used to be a Christian? How can you publicly break the 9th Commandment.
You carp about identity politics but then want to play the Christian identity game. Were you thinking about the ninth commandment when you pronounced Gillum guilty?
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Old 10-25-2018, 01:36 PM   #4565
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You carp about identity politics but then want to play the Christian identity game. Were you thinking about the ninth commandment when you pronounced Gillum guilty?
Are you saying that your local paper and the FBI are not trustworthy?

'I got you': Texts, emails detail how Adam Corey, FBI arranged trips for Andrew Gillum

How about the Washington Post?

Perhaps you have come to your senses and stopped believing what you read in the mainstream media. Others reported it too. It does bother me when the FBI sets up a sting, however, luring officials into criminal activity.

Gillum is a dishonest Socialist, however, and he does not belong in office. DeSantis is an honorable public servant, a veteran, and a business man. He deserves your vote.
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Old 10-25-2018, 02:45 PM   #4566
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Enough about you guys ...

I get the tension, and the finger pointing of both sides. Somebody has to be blamed. Even if we find the guy(s) doing it, we'll have to blame those guilty of motivating him/her. And the right will point left, and the left right.

But right now they're calling this perp The MAGAbomber. Prolly a lefty started that. Who knows? There's crazies on both sides. May the best team win.

But my huge concern is that this right/left thing has become so heated that some are breaking out with acts of terrorism ; Trying to terrorize the opposition, and their supporters.

Whoever is doing it, isn't pipe bombs going just a little too far?

And then, of course, we can expect that trusty ol' tit for tat. And we're off to the races. Regardless who's at fault, this is terrorism. Right now at the Trump opponents.

Really?!? Can a Jesus-kinda-Christian touch any of this?

I'm sorry. Call me a fence sitter, neither hot nor cold - spew - but I can't be in either party. There's lots to watch out for. And the voters are unpredictable. Anything is possible. Red and Blue waves everywhere. Rough seas ... and like torpedo's

NOW PIPE BOMBS??? smh.
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Old 10-25-2018, 07:36 PM   #4567
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But my huge concern is that this right/left thing has become so heated that some are breaking out with acts of terrorism ; Trying to terrorize the opposition, and their supporters.

Whoever is doing it, isn't pipe bombs going just a little too far?

And then, of course, we can expect that trusty ol' tit for tat. And we're off to the races. Regardless who's at fault, this is terrorism. Right now at the Trump opponents.

Really?!? Can a Jesus-kinda-Christian touch any of this?

I'm sorry. Call me a fence sitter, neither hot nor cold - spew - but I can't be in either party. There's lots to watch out for. And the voters are unpredictable. Anything is possible. Red and Blue waves everywhere. Rough seas ... and like torpedo's
I find it interesting that you just now have become concerned. I have been voicing concerns about Leftist violence for some time, yet you were silent.

Are you really sitting on some fence? I'm surprised, since you only seem to condemn Trump, conservatives, Republicans, and Christians.
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Old 10-26-2018, 03:45 AM   #4568
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I find it interesting that you just now have become concerned. I have been voicing concerns about Leftist violence for some time, yet you were silent.

Are you really sitting on some fence? I'm surprised, since you only seem to condemn Trump, conservatives, Republicans, and Christians.
I'm so sorry for attacking those poor loser minority victims, and not those majority winners like democrats and atheists. And oh I love the Hildabeast.
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Old 10-26-2018, 04:52 AM   #4569
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I'm so sorry for attacking those poor loser minority victims, and not those majority winners like democrats and atheists. And oh I love the Hildabeast.
As ya'all say, "yer a funny guy."
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Old 10-26-2018, 06:33 AM   #4570
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Back to the Pipe bombs:

Monday — suspicious device is found in Soros mailbox
Tuesday — Secret Service intercepts suspicious device in Clinton’s mailbox — this can now be viewed as an assassination attempt on a former president.
Wednesday — Secret Service intercept device in Obama’s mail. CNN and John Brennan also had devices. Debbie Wasserman Schultz and Eric Holder also had devices. Maxine Waters had two devices.
Thursday — Robert De Niro had a device found.

My point is that for the last 4 days the FBI, Secret Service, US Postal Office, and full weight of the Federal Govt along with NYPD and other law enforcement agencies have been on this case.

That is plenty of time to pull DNA evidence from these packages. You have to be very skillful with a fully equipped lab to avoid leaving DNA. Even if you don't leave DNA you should still find DNA from others like the clerks at the store where this came from.

Packages mailed in the US Postal service can be traced back to their origin, which I expect has already been done. Therefore one would think we had photographic evidence at this point concerning who mailed this.

Every component of the device can be traced to the store where it was bought, again with the potential of identifying a person who bought this.

The fact that a suspect has not yet been apprehended should impress everyone with the skill of whoever made these "crude" devices not intended to explode. Especially since none of these devices exploded giving the investigators a treasure trove of physical evidence.

The beauty of sending bombs not intended to explode is that it will support both narratives -- the one CNN is pushing about the irresponsibility of the President's rhetoric, and the one FOX is pushing about a "false flag" attack.

Therefore, due to the skill of this perpetrator, their knowledge of everyone that Trump has ridiculed along with their addresses, I consider this to be a very intelligent perp. Therefore I think it is quite reasonable to conclude that the persons intent was to stir up the debate more than anything.
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Old 10-26-2018, 07:25 AM   #4571
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The fact that a suspect has not yet been apprehended should impress everyone with the skill of whoever made these "crude" devices not intended to explode. Especially since none of these devices exploded giving the investigators a treasure trove of physical evidence.

Therefore, due to the skill of this perpetrator, their knowledge of everyone that Trump has ridiculed along with their addresses, I consider this to be a very intelligent perp. Therefore I think it is quite reasonable to conclude that the persons intent was to stir up the debate more than anything.
I said from the beginning that the level of professionalism to be found in these devices has more to do with hiding evidence than with actual explosive capability.

And to your point, we do need serious debate about bomb control legislation. Why aren't there more background checks? Did these perps have a concealed carry permit for handbombs? Should we really allow assault bombs to pass thru our mail system? How many of our legislators accept money from the NBA? These are difficult challenges, and it's about time our Congress "shut up, step up, and do your job."
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Old 10-26-2018, 07:42 AM   #4572
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Are you saying that your local paper and the FBI are not trustworthy?

'I got you': Texts, emails detail how Adam Corey, FBI arranged trips for Andrew Gillum

How about the Washington Post?

Perhaps you have come to your senses and stopped believing what you read in the mainstream media. Others reported it too. It does bother me when the FBI sets up a sting, however, luring officials into criminal activity.

Gillum is a dishonest Socialist, however, and he does not belong in office. DeSantis is an honorable public servant, a veteran, and a business man. He deserves your vote.
Remember when with reference to Kavanaugh you posted
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No more justice here? No more presumption of innocence?
To my knowledge Gillum hasn't been convicted of a crime. Apparently to you the presumption of innocence is only for conservatives.
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Old 10-26-2018, 08:54 AM   #4573
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Remember when with reference to Kavanaugh you posted

To my knowledge Gillum hasn't been convicted of a crime. Apparently to you the presumption of innocence is only for conservatives.
We need to look at the evidence. Why was the FBI investigating Gillum, what have they discovered, and who released this to the public.

With Blousy-Ford, she could never even pass the smell test. Why is it that no prosecutor in the country would use her story to file charges? I realize that this is too difficult for you and the Left to understand, but evidence amd objectivity is really important. Everyone implicated by her as a witness denies even being there. She can't identify the date, the place, the people ... Nothing!

Gillum is totally different. All we need is Gillum's cell phone info to verify that he was indeed at the Hamilton show. Next we need proof of purchase. Check or credit card, from him or his brother. So easy to dispute the FBI undercover agent, if true. Why has Gillum not done this? Why does he use the race card instead? How sleazy is that?

If I was Gillum, I would just admit it. Fess up to being a swamp creature. Admit that he was bribed. And own it that "every body else in Tallahassee does it too." He still might get elected. Happened before!
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Old 10-26-2018, 09:07 AM   #4574
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We need to look at the evidence. Why was the FBI investigating Gillum, what have they discovered, and who released this to the public.

With Blousy-Ford, she could never even pass the smell test. Why is it that no prosecutor in the country would use her story to file charges? I realize that this is too difficult for you and the Left to understand, but evidence amd objectivity is really important. Everyone implicated by her as a witness denies even being there. She can't identify the date, the place, the people ... Nothing!

Gillum is totally different. All we need is Gillum's cell phone info to verify that he was indeed at the Hamilton show. Next we need proof of purchase. Check or credit card, from him or his brother. So easy to dispute the FBI undercover agent, if true. Why has Gillum not done this? Why does he use the race card instead? How sleazy is that?

If I was Gillum, I would just admit it. Fess up to being a swamp creature. Admit that he was bribed. And own it that "every body else in Tallahassee does it too." He still might get elected. Happened before!
Thank you for serving as judge and jury in a trial of your own imagination on a guy who hasn't been charged with anything in stark contradiction to the principle of innocent until proven guilty which you claimed for another guy when it was politically convenient. As awareness likes to say you're a peach.
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Old 10-26-2018, 10:40 AM   #4575
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As awareness likes to say you're a peach.
Now looky there. No pipe bombs here.

But breaking news!!!! They got him. Cesar Sayoc, Jr., 56, arrested in Plantation, Fl.

And he's not a demmie. He has a Trump mobile.

And bro ZNP was right. They got with DNA.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...lorida-n924776

Better coverage :

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ier-Sayoc.html
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Old 10-26-2018, 11:19 AM   #4576
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Now looky there. No pipe bombs here.

But breaking news!!!! They got him. Cesar Sayoc, Jr., 56, arrested in Plantation, Fl.

And he's not a demmie. He has a Trump mobile.

And bro ZNP was right. They got with DNA.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...lorida-n924776

Better coverage :

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ier-Sayoc.html
Just give Mr. Ohio a second to check his extremist sources so that he knows how to spin this.
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Old 10-26-2018, 11:26 AM   #4577
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Thank you for serving as judge and jury in a trial of your own imagination on a guy who hasn't been charged with anything in stark contradiction to the principle of innocent until proven guilty which you claimed for another guy when it was politically convenient.
I never claimed Kavanaugh was "innocent until proven guilty" regarding his SCOTUS nomination. More false witness, zeeky? I repeatedly said to carefully examine all the evidence and the witnesses, and your Lousy-Ford came up wanting. Seriously wanting. One nasty sicko. Read all about her. It's that simple.

Gillum's case is completely different. And, if wrongly charged, then easily disproved. Why has Gillum not done that? If he was not at Hamilton, just provide an alibi. If he paid for the tickets, just show proof. If he was not bribed by these gifts, and did not award contracts to this undercover "lobbyist" FBI agent, then it should be easy to prove. Just do it!

But don't play the race card and claim Gillum was targeted for being Black. That's racism and politics at their swampy worst. All politicians should be held accountable. Left and right. Right?

zeek
, I understand you live in or near Tallahassee. You deserve better. Or perhaps not. You get to choose. And I've heard that you're a peach too.
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Old 10-26-2018, 01:10 PM   #4578
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Interesting that we are now equally turbulent as then.
Yes, that is exactly where we are. And there is a Kitchen Aid mixer whipping it to a frenzy . . . . the Tweeter-in-chief himself. The official Divider of the United States.

We got what we wanted. Someone who fight for our "god-given rights" at any cost. (I say liitle "g" god because we gave them to ourselves. God wasn't covenentally responsible for giving them.)

And look at what it has cost.

For the first time in my voting life, I am NOT voting a straight GOP ticket. I almost did it in 2016, but did a write-in instead. I might not like everything about the politics of some of the people I will vote for, but I do like their humanity. And some opposition to the direction that the Twit in Chief is taking us.

Several years back, the movie (a comedy) My Fellow Americans followed two ex-presidents. At one point they traded their own lyrics for "Hail to the Chief." They went something like this:
Hail to the Chief
He's the Chief and he needs hailing
I am the Chief
So you better watch your step, you . . . . .
and
Hail to the Chief
If you don't I'l have to kill you
But now there needs to be a new one:
Jail to the Chief
He's a thief and he needs jailing
I know this is not popular with some, but Trump is so absolutely unfit for the job and should be fired at the first possible point in time.

Thanks for the opportunity to rant.
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Old 10-26-2018, 01:24 PM   #4579
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Yes, that is exactly where we are. And there is a Kitchen Aid mixer whipping it to a frenzy . . . . the Tweeter-in-chief himself. The official Divider of the United States.
We got what we wanted. Someone who fight for our "god-given rights" at any cost. (I say liitle "g" god because we gave them to ourselves. God wasn't covenentally responsible for giving them.)

And look at what it has cost.

For the first time in my voting life, I am NOT voting a straight GOP ticket. I almost did it in 2016, but did a write-in instead. I might not like everything about the politics of some of the people I will vote for, but I do like their humanity. And some opposition to the direction that the Twit in Chief is taking us.

Several years back, the movie (a comedy) My Fellow Americans followed two ex-presidents. At one point they traded their own lyrics for "Hail to the Chief." They went something like this:
Hail to the Chief
He's the Chief and he needs hailing
I am the Chief
So you better watch your step, you . . . . .
and
Hail to the Chief
If you don't I'l have to kill you
But now there needs to be a new one:
Jail to the Chief
He's a thief and he needs jailing
I know this is not popular with some, but Trump is so absolutely unfit for the job and should be fired at the first possible point in time.

Thanks for the opportunity to rant.
Yo, OBW, just like John McCain, if you wanted some "love" in your life, you did the right thing -- just hate the Trump, and the Lefty's here will love you.

Oh, and do take some time and tell us about that terrible Ted Cruz.
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Old 10-26-2018, 01:41 PM   #4580
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Yes, that is exactly where we are. And there is a Kitchen Aid mixer whipping it to a frenzy . . . . the Tweeter-in-chief himself.
Correction : Stoker-in-chief.
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Old 10-26-2018, 01:43 PM   #4581
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terrible Ted Cruz.
Correction : "Beautiful" Ted Cruz. Trump no longer calls him Lyin' Ted.
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Old 10-26-2018, 03:17 PM   #4582
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I said from the beginning that the level of professionalism to be found in these devices has more to do with hiding evidence than with actual explosive capability.

And to your point, we do need serious debate about bomb control legislation. Why aren't there more background checks? Did these perps have a concealed carry permit for handbombs? Should we really allow assault bombs to pass thru our mail system? How many of our legislators accept money from the NBA? These are difficult challenges, and it's about time our Congress "shut up, step up, and do your job."
The main problem with outlawing explosive capability is that all of the components are used regularly in construction. Even dirty bombs could be easily built from a host of items that are commonplace, easily obtained, and would be absurd to outlaw.
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Old 10-26-2018, 06:31 PM   #4583
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Correction : "Beautiful" Ted Cruz. Trump no longer calls him Lyin' Ted.
An example of reconciliation unknown in the LCM.
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Old 10-26-2018, 10:36 PM   #4584
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Christian's should sign uo :

Flip Congress for the Common Good

"We’re ready to shift the national conversation from fear to faith and flip Congress for the common good. Will you join the revolution?"

"Jesus called us to love the world. Not Christians, not us here at Vote Common Good, but the whole world. Whole. World."


https://www.votecommongood.com/tour-speakers-musicians/
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Old 10-27-2018, 05:47 AM   #4585
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Christian's should sign uo :

Flip Congress for the Common Good

"We’re ready to shift the national conversation from fear to faith and flip Congress for the common good. Will you join the revolution?"

"Jesus called us to love the world. Not Christians, not us here at Vote Common Good, but the whole world. Whole. World."
This is just a bunch of nonsense to fool the ignorant. Here is their mission statement:
Vote Common Good is the mission of being in the here and now of this historical moment.

We want to dislodge control of Congress from the Republican Party on November 6th, because we believe that this would most directly affect common good in our country. That’s our chosen strategy for this midterm. For another election, we may have another strategy, irrespective of a party.
This has always been the Socialist message of the Left. "Hey let's give control of Congress to the Left, since they're so kind, honest, loving, and decent." That's what Pelosi and Schumer told us.

If you really want to understand the Left, looking past their many deceptions, you need to watch their "agents of change" -- the masked ANTIFA/BLM/Occupy types attacking innocent people, shutting down free speech, and destroying property.

With Capitalism, we do have rich and poor people. With Socialism we only have poor people.

Yes, let's flip Congress, promote Socialism, love everybody, and become like Venzuela!
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Old 10-27-2018, 06:28 AM   #4586
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Yesterday, 01:26 PM #4577 [QUOTE=Ohio;81050]I never claimed Kavanaugh was "innocent until proven guilty" regarding his SCOTUS nomination.

09-29-2018, 12:06 PM #4324 [QUOTE=Ohio;80117] The Democrats never gave him the presumption of innocence. They demanded more than perfection.

09-26-2018, 06:55 PM #4295 [QUOTE=Ohio;80005]No more justice here? No more presumption of innocence?
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Old 10-27-2018, 07:10 AM   #4587
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In my 68 years I've never seen a president stoke division and violence like Trump does.
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Old 10-27-2018, 08:06 AM   #4588
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In my 68 years I've never seen a president stoke division and violence like Trump does.
Yer a funny guy. Didn't you live thru the riots of the 60's?
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Old 10-27-2018, 08:18 AM   #4589
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Bad day for the Left's Legendary Lawyer and Savior Michael Avenatti.

The Senate Judiciary Chairman has 2 referrals to the DOJ regarding him.

Yes, zeek, he has the presumption of innocence until he is convicted for deceiving Congress.
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Old 10-27-2018, 08:29 AM   #4590
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[QUOTE=zeek;81071]Yesterday, 01:26 PM #4577 [QUOTE=Ohio;81050]I never claimed Kavanaugh was "innocent until proven guilty" regarding his SCOTUS nomination.

09-29-2018, 12:06 PM #4324 [QUOTE=Ohio;80117] The Democrats never gave him the presumption of innocence. They demanded more than perfection.

09-26-2018, 06:55 PM #4295
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No more justice here? No more presumption of innocence?
Big difference here, my friend.

Criminal courts require that the indicted are "innocent until proven guilty" in a court of law.

But in the court of public opinion, "the presumption of innocence" is required at least until the facts can be brought forth, especially in so-called SCOTUS "job interviews."

Sorry, zeek, but I'm continually amazed at how readily gullible you are to believe the lie. If God and His word are the source of wisdom, then what will forsaking God and His word leave you with?
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Old 10-27-2018, 08:56 AM   #4591
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Yer a funny guy. Didn't you live thru the riots of the 60's?
Neither Johnson nor Nixon intentionally called for division and violence the way Trump does.
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Old 10-27-2018, 09:06 AM   #4592
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[QUOTE=Ohio;81075][QUOTE=zeek;81071]Yesterday, 01:26 PM #4577 [QUOTE=Ohio;81050]I never claimed Kavanaugh was "innocent until proven guilty" regarding his SCOTUS nomination.

09-29-2018, 12:06 PM #4324
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The Democrats never gave him the presumption of innocence. They demanded more than perfection.

09-26-2018, 06:55 PM #4295
Big difference here, my friend.

Criminal courts require that the indicted are "innocent until proven guilty" in a court of law.

But in the court of public opinion, "the presumption of innocence" is required at least until the facts can be brought forth, especially in so-called SCOTUS "job interviews."

Sorry, zeek, but I'm continually amazed at how readily gullible you are to believe the lie. If God and His word are the source of wisdom, then what will forsaking God and His word leave you with?
You're the one who used the presumption of innocence to defend Kavanaugh while parroting Trump and then denied that you had and now are giving your explanation of your confused thinking about it. You apparently consider your thinking a product of God's wisdom which would be if it weren't so .
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Old 10-27-2018, 09:30 AM   #4593
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Neither Johnson nor Nixon intentionally called for division and violence the way Trump does.
No, they just sent tens of thousands of kids drafted to go fight a war in Vietnam for "national defense"? That was as divisive a time as we have every seen in my lifetime.
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Old 10-27-2018, 10:09 AM   #4594
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No, they just sent tens of thousands of kids drafted to go fight a war in Vietnam for "national defense"? That was as divisive a time as we have every seen in my lifetime.
That was misguided to say the least. I never saw them deliberately promote civic division like Trump does.As a matter of fact they tried to unite the people in support of their cause which they saw as necessary. If you don't see what I'm talking about, feel free to let it go. I'm not trying to persuade you of something you don't see. That would be a waste of time. I'm just witnessing to my truth.
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Old 10-27-2018, 10:23 AM   #4595
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Neither Johnson nor Nixon intentionally called for division and violence the way Trump does.
You are horribly misguided by a deceitful media.

Trump never called for violence.

And division? Isn't that called politics?

And obviously your news sources have not informed you of Pelosi's, DeNero's, Madonna's, Holder's, Maxine's, Hilary's, etc. calls for violence.

The Blind leading the Blind!
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Old 10-27-2018, 10:31 AM   #4596
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That was misguided to say the least. I never saw them deliberately promote civic division like Trump does.As a matter of fact they tried to unite the people in support of their cause which they saw as necessary. If you don't see what I'm talking about, feel free to let it go. I'm not trying to persuade you of something you don't see. That would be a waste of time. I'm just witnessing to my truth.
Me too. Nothing so divisive as telling us we need to go fight and die in Vietnam for the national defense when that was total BS, simply a place for our Military industrial complex to do R&D.

As a result kids went ballistic, riots, songs, leaving for Canada, etc.
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Old 10-27-2018, 10:37 AM   #4597
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That was misguided to say the least. I never saw them deliberately promote civic division like Trump does.As a matter of fact they tried to unite the people in support of their cause which they saw as necessary. If you don't see what I'm talking about, feel free to let it go. I'm not trying to persuade you of something you don't see. That would be a waste of time. I'm just witnessing to my truth.
Misguided? Running the Viet Nam war out of the Oval Office is worse than misguided, but we all know how blind you are to every fault of the Left.

There is lots of evidence out there that Viet Nam was a false flag operation. At least JFK had the sense to stop it, and that's prolly why he got killed. The FIRST thing LBJ did in office was to reverse JFK's decision on Viet Nam.

LBJ and JEHoover did more to divide our country than any others in history, with the exception of the Civil War.
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Old 10-27-2018, 10:42 AM   #4598
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I just heard this morning the Trump is really miffed. That the pipe bombs didn't go off.
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Old 10-27-2018, 10:42 AM   #4599
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Misguided? Running the Viet Nam war out of the Oval Office is worse than misguided, but we all know how blind you are to every fault of the Left.

There is lots of evidence out there that Viet Nam was a false flag operation. At least JFK had the sense to stop it, and that's prolly why he got killed. The FIRST thing LBJ did in office was to reverse JFK's decision on Viet Nam.

LBJ and JEHoover did more to divide our country than any others in history, with the exception of the Civil War.
Conservatives supported the Viet Nam war. It was part of the struggle against Communism. Are you a commie?
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Old 10-27-2018, 10:58 AM   #4600
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[QUOTE=zeek;81077][QUOTE=Ohio;81075]
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You're the one who used the presumption of innocence to defend Kavanaugh while parroting Trump and then denied that you had and now are giving your explanation of your confused thinking about it.
You don't like my explanation? What else is new.

Let me repeat.

The presumption of innocence is part of the American experience, reaching every part of our culture. It is needed now more than ever with this evil, crooked media we have. This is designed to protect the innocent from evil lies and false witnesses, as in Brett Kavanaugh's and Clarence Thomas's situations.

This presumption of innocence does NOT mean that someone cannot be found guilty in the court of public opinion. That will be determined by fair-minded individuals as evidence comes forward. In the case of that Lousy-Ford, she either lied or pled ignorance to every detail of the event for 36 years, but knew for sure that it was Kavanaugh. She had zero corroboration of any evidence whatsoever. It says a whole lot about your character when you are willing to believe such people.

"Innocent until proven guilty" is the judicial standard for conviction according to the various thresholds defined by law, i.e. "the burden of proof," e.g. "beyond a reasonable doubt, a preponderance of evidence," etc.

Apparently the media has robbed you of this little bit of common sense "wisdom." And you are almost 70 yo?
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Old 10-27-2018, 11:00 AM   #4601
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Conservatives supported the Viet Nam war. It was part of the struggle against Communism. Are you a commie?
The Communist Party has long been affiliated with the liberal Left.

Look in the mirror, my friend.


Obama was affiliated with that 60's bomber, Bill Ayers, and followed that commie, Saul Alinsky.
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Old 10-27-2018, 11:09 AM   #4602
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The Communist Party has long been affiliated with the liberal Left.

Look in the mirror, my friend.


Obama was affiliated with that 60's bomber, Bill Ayers, and followed that commie, Saul Alinsky.
You're a True Believer of far-right propaganda like your buddy Cesar Sayoc.
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Old 10-27-2018, 11:12 AM   #4603
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[QUOTE=Ohio;81086][QUOTE=zeek;81077]
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You don't like my explanation? What else is new.

Let me repeat.

The presumption of innocence is part of the American experience, reaching every part of our culture. It is needed now more than ever with this evil, crooked media we have. This is designed to protect the innocent from evil lies and false witnesses, as in Brett Kavanaugh's and Clarence Thomas's situations.

This presumption of innocence does NOT mean that someone cannot be found guilty in the court of public opinion. That will be determined by fair-minded individuals as evidence comes forward. In the case of that Lousy-Ford, she either lied or pled ignorance to every detail of the event for 36 years, but knew for sure that it was Kavanaugh. She had zero corroboration of any evidence whatsoever. It says a whole lot about your character when you are willing to believe such people.

"Innocent until proven guilty" is the judicial standard for conviction according to the various thresholds defined by law, i.e. "the burden of proof," e.g. "beyond a reasonable doubt, a preponderance of evidence," etc.

Apparently the media has robbed you of this little bit of common sense "wisdom." And you are almost 70 yo?
With many words you try to obfuscate the fact that you extended the presumption of innocence to Kavanaugh but denied it to Gillum.
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Old 10-27-2018, 11:22 AM   #4604
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[QUOTE=Ohio;81086][QUOTE=zeek;81077]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post

You don't like my explanation? What else is new.

Let me repeat.

The presumption of innocence is part of the American experience, reaching every part of our culture. It is needed now more than ever with this evil, crooked media we have. This is designed to protect the innocent from evil lies and false witnesses, as in Brett Kavanaugh's and Clarence Thomas's situations.

This presumption of innocence does NOT mean that someone cannot be found guilty in the court of public opinion. That will be determined by fair-minded individuals as evidence comes forward. In the case of that Lousy-Ford, she either lied or pled ignorance to every detail of the event for 36 years, but knew for sure that it was Kavanaugh. She had zero corroboration of any evidence whatsoever. It says a whole lot about your character when you are willing to believe such people.

"Innocent until proven guilty" is the judicial standard for conviction according to the various thresholds defined by law, i.e. "the burden of proof," e.g. "beyond a reasonable doubt, a preponderance of evidence," etc.

Apparently the media has robbed you of this little bit of common sense "wisdom." And you are almost 70 yo?
The Law in the OT was very clear, you could not convict someone based on one witness. In addition if someone is convicted of being a false witness they were supposed to be given the judgement that they were trying to put on someone else. Now the woman who accused Kavanaugh of working with others to gang rape her should be convicted of being a false witness.
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Old 10-27-2018, 12:05 PM   #4605
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The Law in the OT was very clear, you could not convict someone based on one witness. In addition if someone is convicted of being a false witness they were supposed to be given the judgement that they were trying to put on someone else. Now the woman who accused Kavanaugh of working with others to gang rape her should be convicted of being a false witness.
As one who has been hit with a few false accusations, I like this part of the OT Law.

Does this also apply to creepy porn lawyers like Avenatti?
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Old 10-27-2018, 12:17 PM   #4606
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With many words you try to obfuscate the fact that you extended the presumption of innocence to Kavanaugh but denied it to Gillum.
I applied the same standard to both. First you complain I was not clear enough, then you complain I use too many words.

Kavan-awesome came up innocent by every standard.

Lousy-Ford was a sick, false witness, victimized by Senator Frankenstein and the Left.

GlueLam had his chance to clear his name, but instead he played the race card.

Vote DeSantis! Vote America! Vote Integrity!
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Old 10-27-2018, 12:17 PM   #4607
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[QUOTE=Ohio;81091][QUOTE=ZNPaaneah;81090]
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As one who has been hit with a few false accusations, I like this part of the OT Law.

Does this also apply to creepy porn lawyers like Avenatti?
Whoa! What? Avenatti has made false accusations about you? I was sure you were going to say Zeek.
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Old 10-27-2018, 12:19 PM   #4608
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Whoa! What? Avenatti has made false accusations about you? I was sure you were going to say Zeek.
Neither, just a comment about false witnesses in my lifetime.

God's law is fair and just.


But zeek did accuse me of being a friend of Cesar Sayoc.
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Old 10-27-2018, 12:28 PM   #4609
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At Least 8 Dead and Officers Shot in Saturday Morning Attack on Synagogue

Wow! Just saw this. Violence strikes close to home. I used to live down the street from this synagogue.
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Old 10-27-2018, 12:32 PM   #4610
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[QUOTE=Ohio;81091][QUOTE=ZNPaaneah;81090]
Quote:
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As one who has been hit with a few false accusations, I like this part of the OT Law.

Does this also apply to creepy porn lawyers like Avenatti?
This post is screwed up. Bro zeek didn't say the material quoted. Prolly ZNP did.

So bro Ohio, fix it. Or I will.
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Old 10-27-2018, 12:38 PM   #4611
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I applied the same standard to both. First you complain I was not clear enough, then you complain I use too many words.

Kavan-awesome came up innocent by every standard.

Lousy-Ford was a sick, false witness, victimized by Senator Frankenstein and the Left.

GlueLam had his chance to clear his name, but instead he played the race card.

Vote DeSantis! Vote America! Vote Integrity!
DeSantis has my vote!
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Old 10-27-2018, 03:21 PM   #4612
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The Left's greatest nightmare:


BLEXIT: the BLack EXIT from the Democrat party.





Incredible Logo artwork by Kanye West, inspired by a trip that he and Candace Owens took to Uganda in Africa.
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Old 10-27-2018, 06:08 PM   #4613
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More bad news for zeek and his boy gov'ner Gillum ...

Democrat Andrew Gillum Billed FBI Undercover Agent $4,386 For Fundraiser, Never Disclosed In Finance Reports


Advice to Gillum: Keep your eyes on the agents under the covers
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Old 10-27-2018, 08:47 PM   #4614
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In 2017 anti semitic attacks increased 67% from 2016. That surge has continued into 2018.

https://www.adl.org/news/press-relea...mpared-to-2016
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Old 10-27-2018, 08:51 PM   #4615
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1) A Trump lover, and pipe bombs.

2) A Trump hater, and shooting at synagogue.

3) Both white supremacists.

4) Must be those very fine people on both sides, that Trump mentioned about those at Charlottesville.

5) I'm sick of winning. And so glad America is great again.
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Old 10-27-2018, 08:58 PM   #4616
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1) A Trump lover, and pipe bombs.

2) A Trump hater, and shooting at synagogue.

3) Both white supremacists.

4) Must be those very fine people on both sides, that Trump mentioned about those at Charlottesville.
What happened to you?

Your hatred for Trump is making you sick.
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Old 10-27-2018, 09:00 PM   #4617
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More bad news for zeek and his boy gov'ner Gillum ...

Democrat Andrew Gillum Billed FBI Undercover Agent $4,386 For Fundraiser, Never Disclosed In Finance Reports


Advice to Gillum: Keep your eyes on the agents under the covers
Give him the same presumption of innocence that you gave to Kavanaugh. Neither have been found guilty in a court of law. Innocent until proven guilty.

Aren't you shocked by your own legal relativism coming as it does from a professed conservative? What have you become since leaving THE CHURCH, some kind of postmodernist?

But, whatever you do, keep eshewing the mainstream media. Continue consuming and believing the extremist screeds that tell you what you want to hear. Those are the ones that radicalized Right-wing activist Caesar Sayoc. That's why all he went after the same people that you castigate with hate every day on this thread. You two guys are reading the same stuff.
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Old 10-27-2018, 09:05 PM   #4618
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In 2017 anti semitic attacks increased 67% from 2016. That surge has continued into 2018.

https://www.adl.org/news/press-relea...mpared-to-2016
Hmm? I wonder what happened in 2017 that might have encourage them? It couldn't be that that's when Donald Trump took office could it?
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Old 10-28-2018, 02:43 AM   #4619
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Give him the same presumption of innocence that you gave to Kavanaugh. Neither have been found guilty in a court of law. Innocent until proven guilty.

Aren't you shocked by your own legal relativism coming as it does from a professed conservative? What have you become since leaving THE CHURCH, some kind of postmodernist?

But, whatever you do, keep eshewing the mainstream media. Continue consuming and believing the extremist screeds that tell you what you want to hear. Those are the ones that radicalized Right-wing activist Caesar Sayoc. That's why all he went after the same people that you castigate with hate every day on this thread. You two guys are reading the same stuff.
During the Kavanaugh nomination, every Democratic Senator clamored unceasingly for an FBI investigation. That's exactly what they got with Gillum!

And zeek is still whining (wining?) away the day! Give him what he wants and he just keeps crying!

Vote DeSantis! Vote integrity! Vote America!
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Old 10-28-2018, 07:32 AM   #4620
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What happened to you?

Your hatred for Trump is making you sick.
No brother, what I've seen going on this week is making me sick. And your complicity in demagoguery is disturbing.
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Old 10-28-2018, 07:37 AM   #4621
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No to divisive, hateful rhetoric and the fomenting of it.
Yes to public policies that make minorities secure.
Yes to the idea that we are all called to love.
Yes to the idea that God is inclusive love.

http://www.openhorizons.org/after-th...lgQXMQyt3nHgq0
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Old 10-28-2018, 07:42 AM   #4622
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Vote DeSantis! Vote integrity! Vote America!
Integrity? Bahahahaha. Unless white supremacy is integrity to you.
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Old 10-28-2018, 07:54 AM   #4623
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No to divisive, hateful rhetoric and the fomenting of it.
Yes to public policies that make minorities secure.
Yes to the idea that we are all called to love.
Yes to the idea that God is inclusive love.

http://www.openhorizons.org/after-th...lgQXMQyt3nHgq0
The heading to the article says :

In appreciation of Rabbi Bradley Shavit Artson's ministry, and his sharing of rabbinic wisdom with the wider world, Muslims and Christians included,

by Farhan Shah and Jay McDaniel


I'm impressed by the inclusion of Muslim's ... and their response to the killing of Jews at the synagogue :

"Muslim civil rights and advocacy organization Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) released a statement on Saturday in solidarity with the Jewish community.

“We condemn this heinous and cowardly attack on a house of worship, offer heartfelt condolences to the loved ones of all those who were killed or injured and express our solidarity with the Jewish community during this time of shock and grief,” said program director Zohra Lasania."


AMEN !!!
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Old 10-28-2018, 12:05 PM   #4624
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Pence is supporting Trump's stochastic terrorism speaking.

'I just don't think you can connect it to threats or acts of violence': Pence dismisses any suggestions of a link between Trump's rhetoric and the MAGAbomber or Pittsburgh shooting

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...c-attacks.html
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Old 10-28-2018, 12:23 PM   #4625
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Hmm? I wonder what happened in 2017 that might have encourage them? It couldn't be that that's when Donald Trump took office could it?
I think it is reasonable to assume that the Arab nations are taking advantage of our social media the same way we know the Russians and Chinese are.
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Old 10-28-2018, 12:53 PM   #4626
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I think it is reasonable to assume that the Arab nations are taking advantage of our social media the same way we know the Russians and Chinese are.
Or maybe as Trump suggested, it's a 400 pound hacker in his basement.
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Old 10-29-2018, 06:38 AM   #4627
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“President Trump, you are not welcome in Pittsburgh until you fully denounce white nationalism,” the leaders of the local chapter of Bend the Arc wrote, adding:
“For the past three years, your words and your policies have emboldened a growing white nationalist movement. You yourself called the murderer evil, but yesterday’s violence is the direct culmination of your influence.”
The group said Trump’s rhetoric had not only led to attacks on Jewish people, but also “deliberately undermined the safety of people of color, Muslims, LGBTQ people and people with disabilities.”

The organization also demanded that Trump “stop targeting and endangering all minorities,” “cease your assault on immigrants and refugees” and “commit yourself to compassionate, democratic policies that recognize the dignity of all of us.”

https://www.bendthearc.us/open_lette...resident_trump
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Old 10-29-2018, 07:06 AM   #4628
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“President Trump, you are not welcome in Pittsburgh until you fully denounce white nationalism,” the leaders of the local chapter of Bend the Arc wrote, adding:
“For the past three years, your words and your policies have emboldened a growing white nationalist movement. You yourself called the murderer evil, but yesterday’s violence is the direct culmination of your influence.”
The group said Trump’s rhetoric had not only led to attacks on Jewish people, but also “deliberately undermined the safety of people of color, Muslims, LGBTQ people and people with disabilities.”

The organization also demanded that Trump “stop targeting and endangering all minorities,” “cease your assault on immigrants and refugees” and “commit yourself to compassionate, democratic policies that recognize the dignity of all of us.”

https://www.bendthearc.us/open_lette...resident_trump
A house divided cannot stand.
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Old 10-29-2018, 07:09 AM   #4629
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“President Trump, you are not welcome in Pittsburgh until you fully denounce white nationalism,” the leaders of the local chapter of Bend the Arc wrote, adding:
“For the past three years, your words and your policies have emboldened a growing white nationalist movement. You yourself called the murderer evil, but yesterday’s violence is the direct culmination of your influence.”
The group said Trump’s rhetoric had not only led to attacks on Jewish people, but also “deliberately undermined the safety of people of color, Muslims, LGBTQ people and people with disabilities.”

The organization also demanded that Trump “stop targeting and endangering all minorities,” “cease your assault on immigrants and refugees” and “commit yourself to compassionate, democratic policies that recognize the dignity of all of us.”
These "progressive" Jewish voices also hate George Bush, PM Netanyahu, the nation of Israel, Jesus Christ, etc.

They have no idea who their real friends and enemies are. They even stand up for the "oppressed" Palestinians.
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Old 10-29-2018, 07:30 AM   #4630
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These "progressive" Jewish voices also hate George Bush, PM Netanyahu, the nation of Israel, Jesus Christ, etc.

They have no idea who their real friends and enemies are. They even stand up for the "oppressed" Palestinians.
Deuteronomy 27:19 Cursed is anyone who with holds Justice from The Foreigner, the fatherless or the Widow. Then all the people shall say Amen. Exodus 12:49 the same law applies both to the native-born and to The Foreigner residing among you. Exodus 23: 9 do not oppress a foreigner. You yourselves know how it feels to be foreigners because you were foreigners in Egypt.
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Old 10-29-2018, 08:21 AM   #4631
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I read an excerpt of Ron DiSantis' book here :https://www.amazon.com/Dreams-Our-Fo...MJCYVCTPWN0NAK

But, I haven't bought the book so I don't know if it's true that he excuses the Three-Fifths Compromise in the U.S. Constitution, which counted a black person as only three-fifths of a whole person to determine congressional representation.

I read that DeSantis defends the founding fathers for agreeing to the compromise because “counting slaves as less than a full person for purposes of representation benefited anti-slavery states.” DeSantis supposedly maintains that allowing slaves to be counted as three-fifths of a white person gave slave states extra representation without having to actually allow black people to vote.

Sounds like he thinks the Constitution is inerrant and holding black slaves as less than fully persons was a good thing . That can't be true. Has anybody read his book?
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Old 10-29-2018, 08:47 AM   #4632
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Deuteronomy 27:19 Cursed is anyone who with holds Justice from The Foreigner, the fatherless or the Widow. Then all the people shall say Amen. Exodus 12:49 the same law applies both to the native-born and to The Foreigner residing among you. Exodus 23: 9 do not oppress a foreigner. You yourselves know how it feels to be foreigners because you were foreigners in Egypt.
Who is oppressing foreigners? Certainly not the Trump administration!

Trump admin even stopped putting children in fenced cages, which the Obama admin practiced.

All foreigners in Israel had to abide by the LAW. This is exactly what Trump demands. This policy protects both citizens AND immigrants.

Sorry if this violates your snowflake sensibilities and perverted progressivism. What a deceitful way to increase voter registration for the Democrats!
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Old 10-29-2018, 08:53 AM   #4633
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I read an excerpt of Ron DiSantis' book here :https://www.amazon.com/Dreams-Our-Fo...MJCYVCTPWN0NAK

But, I haven't bought the book so I don't know if it's true that he excuses the Three-Fifths Compromise in the U.S. Constitution, which counted a black person as only three-fifths of a whole person to determine congressional representation.

I read that DeSantis defends the founding fathers for agreeing to the compromise because “counting slaves as less than a full person for purposes of representation benefited anti-slavery states.” DeSantis supposedly maintains that allowing slaves to be counted as three-fifths of a white person gave slave states extra representation without having to actually allow black people to vote.

Sounds like he thinks the Constitution is inerrant and holding black slaves as less than fully persons was a good thing . That can't be true. Has anybody read his book?
zeek, I thought you wanted *honest* public servants who did not use office for personal gains?

Surely you can't still be supporting Gillum, who is under FBI investigation for ethical violations, bribes, and corruption.

#BELIEVEtheFBI

What do we know about the FBI cloud over Andrew Gillum's campaign?
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Old 10-29-2018, 09:03 AM   #4634
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Who is oppressing foreigners? Certainly not the Trump administration!

Trump admin even stopped putting children in fenced cages, which the Obama admin practiced.

All foreigners in Israel had to abide by the LAW. This is exactly what Trump demands. This policy protects both citizens AND immigrants.

Sorry if this violates your snowflake sensibilities and perverted progressivism. What a deceitful way to increase voter registration for the Democrats!
Yeah it was a snowflake who wrote those verses in the Bible which you chose to ignore.
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Old 10-29-2018, 09:03 AM   #4635
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zeek, I thought you wanted *honest* public servants who did not use office for personal gains?

Surely you can't still be supporting Gillum, who is under FBI investigation for ethical violations, bribes, and corruption.

#BELIEVEtheFBI

What do we know about the FBI cloud over Andrew Gillum's campaign?
Did you answer my question?
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Old 10-29-2018, 12:02 PM   #4636
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Yeah it was a snowflake who wrote those verses in the Bible which you chose to ignore.
It is interesting that the Left has finally begun to "search the scriptures." Unfortunately for them, they search as did the Pharisees of old.

I never ignored those scriptures. I agree with them wholeheartedly. But when the Philistines or other enemies came marching into Israel, did they treat them as "foreigners" or an invading army?

Obviously you cannot tell the difference. When 80% of these "refugees" are young, able, healthy young men, that should be a clue.
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Old 10-29-2018, 12:03 PM   #4637
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Did you answer my question?

And then some!
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Old 10-29-2018, 12:13 PM   #4638
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This is how the LEFT teaches to "love your neighbor":

Death Threats, Assaults, Vandalism: over 40 Acts of Left-Wing Thuggery in October, So Far…

And then zeek will lecture us to "love" the invading army of illegal "foreigners" at the border.

zeek, why do you and your ilk only love those who support your socialist ideology to overthrow our country?
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Old 10-29-2018, 12:18 PM   #4639
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This is how the LEFT teaches to "love your neighbor":

Death Threats, Assaults, Vandalism: over 40 Acts of Left-Wing Thuggery in October, So Far…

And then zeek will lecture us to "love" the invading army of illegal "foreigners" at the border.

zeek, why do you and your ilk only love those who support your socialist ideology to overthrow our country?
You wish to be accepted as an individual but I have to have an ilk. Why doesn't that seem fair?
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Old 10-29-2018, 01:19 PM   #4640
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Deuteronomy 27:19 Cursed is anyone who with holds Justice from The Foreigner, the fatherless or the Widow. Then all the people shall say Amen. Exodus 12:49 the same law applies both to the native-born and to The Foreigner residing among you. Exodus 23: 9 do not oppress a foreigner. You yourselves know how it feels to be foreigners because you were foreigners in Egypt.
"THE SAME LAW"

Study Bible
Idolaters to Be Put to Death
…8 you must not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity, and do not spare him or shield him. 9 Instead, you must surely kill him. Your hand must be the first against him to put him to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone him to death for trying to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.…Berean Study Bible · Download
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Old 10-29-2018, 01:41 PM   #4641
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You wish to be accepted as an individual but I have to have an ilk. Why doesn't that seem fair?
If you would stop with the name-calling and accusations of idolatry, perhaps we could discuss the issues themselves.
The great US columnist Charles Krauthammer once noted this truth about contemporary political life in America: ‘To understand the workings of American politics you have to understand this fundamental law: Conservatives think liberals are stupid. Liberals think conservatives are evil.’
Herein lies the problem. Conservatives see the Left having only stupid and failing ideas. Liberals see the Right as having evil intentions and motives, and being evil people. Since those on the Right are evil, they are labeled "racists, xenophobes, misogynists, homophobes, supremacists, fascists, etc." whether there is evidence or not. I constantly hear this from the media and the posts I read.

This dynamic prevents the discussion of ideas on their merits. It also becomes justification for using any means necessary. This is extremely unfortunate, as it seems to be pushing us towards riots and violence. If the Left continues this way, then fringes on the Right will react in kind. I hope not, not just because I abhor the violence, but because I know that those who do not support the 2nd Amendment will get the worst of it.

In politics the "discussion of ideas" should take place in Congress. That is our American system. If the results are not satisfactory, then too bad, wait for the next election. When ObamaCare came before the SCOTUS, as much as I hated that legislation, I agreed with Chief Justice Roberts -- the law was enacted in Congress, signed by the elected President, and so be it. Let there be higher taxes.

Personally I think "gridlock" in Congress is a good thing. It's only bad when the POTUS then feels justified to enact Executive Orders, and the Courts become activist agents for change.
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Old 10-29-2018, 01:52 PM   #4642
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“President Trump, you are not welcome in Pittsburgh until you fully denounce white nationalism,” the leaders of the local chapter of Bend the Arc wrote, adding:
“For the past three years, your words and your policies have emboldened a growing white nationalist movement. You yourself called the murderer evil, but yesterday’s violence is the direct culmination of your influence.”
The group said Trump’s rhetoric had not only led to attacks on Jewish people, but also “deliberately undermined the safety of people of color, Muslims, LGBTQ people and people with disabilities.”

The organization also demanded that Trump “stop targeting and endangering all minorities,” “cease your assault on immigrants and refugees” and “commit yourself to compassionate, democratic policies that recognize the dignity of all of us.”

https://www.bendthearc.us/open_lette...resident_trump
Every news event is used by the media to divide America:

Tree of Life Rabbi to CNN: Trump ‘Always Welcome’ at Our Synagogue, ‘He Is My President’


How unfortunate that some voices were used by the Media to smear Trump, and then others are forced to speak up on behalf of Trump.
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Old 10-29-2018, 03:55 PM   #4643
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I guess the "cure for cancer" was simply a bonus to teaching us how to read the news. Shame that this "one cure for cancer" was covered up by the US govt.
Revelation 18: "the whole world is deceived by pharmakeia" ....


Following up on your earlier post about making cancer illegal.

It is too profitable to do that.

Instead, in the forties and fifties, they made curing cancer illegal, as it is (for the most part) still today.

Much much more money in disease than there is in preventing and curing disease, even though preventing most disease (without drugs) is easier than causing it or allowing it to happen often then pretending to "care" and given "feel better" things for it.
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Old 10-29-2018, 09:34 PM   #4644
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If you would stop with the name-calling and accusations of idolatry, perhaps we could discuss the issues themselves.
The great US columnist Charles Krauthammer once noted this truth about contemporary political life in America: ‘To understand the workings of American politics you have to understand this fundamental law: Conservatives think liberals are stupid. Liberals think conservatives are evil.’
Herein lies the problem. Conservatives see the Left having only stupid and failing ideas. Liberals see the Right as having evil intentions and motives, and being evil people. Since those on the Right are evil, they are labeled "racists, xenophobes, misogynists, homophobes, supremacists, fascists, etc." whether there is evidence or not. I constantly hear this from the media and the posts I read.

This dynamic prevents the discussion of ideas on their merits. It also becomes justification for using any means necessary. This is extremely unfortunate, as it seems to be pushing us towards riots and violence. If the Left continues this way, then fringes on the Right will react in kind. I hope not, not just because I abhor the violence, but because I know that those who do not support the 2nd Amendment will get the worst of it.

In politics the "discussion of ideas" should take place in Congress. That is our American system. If the results are not satisfactory, then too bad, wait for the next election. When ObamaCare came before the SCOTUS, as much as I hated that legislation, I agreed with Chief Justice Roberts -- the law was enacted in Congress, signed by the elected President, and so be it. Let there be higher taxes.

Personally I think "gridlock" in Congress is a good thing. It's only bad when the POTUS then feels justified to enact Executive Orders, and the Courts become activist agents for change.
Krauthammer was the founder of the Never Trump movement. I agreed with him on that. He was an agnostic Jew who claimed he was a better Christian than Trump. I believe him. I'll get back to you tomorrow on the other stuff.
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Old 10-29-2018, 09:39 PM   #4645
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Revelation 18: "the whole world is deceived by pharmakeia" ....


Following up on your earlier post about making cancer illegal.

It is too profitable to do that.

Instead, in the forties and fifties, they made curing cancer illegal, as it is (for the most part) still today.

Much much more money in disease than there is in preventing and curing disease, even though preventing most disease (without drugs) is easier than causing it or allowing it to happen often then pretending to "care" and given "feel better" things for it.
And the evidence with which you support this claim is...?
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Old 10-30-2018, 03:58 AM   #4646
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Krauthammer was the founder of the Never Trump movement. I agreed with him on that. He was an agnostic Jew who claimed he was a better Christian than Trump. I believe him. I'll get back to you tomorrow on the other stuff.
The key here is "was." After Krauthammer saw Trump govern, he changed his attitude, and was no longer a "never-Trumper." I too went thru a similar journey with Trump. I did not vote for Trump in the primary. Like Krauthammer, many conservatives needed time to assess who Trump really was. Getting past the ego, Trump is one of the few politicians who actually intends to keep campaign promises.

Trump never ran as a "better" Christian. Unlike Obama, Trump did not falsely claim to be "born again." This returns us to the age old hypocrisy concerning the demands for morality in office. For years we were lectured to ignore Clinton's infidelities in lieu of "job performance." What saved Clinton cannot also clear Trump? Recent court developments even question the validity of old Trump affairs.

Think about Gillum as you answer!
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Old 10-30-2018, 06:00 AM   #4647
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Think about Gillum as you answer!
I don't vote in Florida, and have not seen any evidence that Gillum is guilty of fraud or theft, but I think his response about "not wrestling with a pig" is lame. You are running for office, there is an allegation of fraud in your position as mayor and there is an allegation of corruption in the city that you were mayor of. Responding that you don't "wrestle with pigs" because you will get dirty is pathetic. At the very least come out and say "not guilty". If you want, spice it up a little and say "fake news" you could even go so far as to call the media pushing this narrative "the enemy".

It is a valid question to ask anyone running for office and should be responded to in a way that clearly and emphatically denies wrong doing.

"My grandmother told me not to wrestle with pigs" is a deflection and indicates deceit.
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Old 10-30-2018, 07:09 AM   #4648
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I don't vote in Florida, and have not seen any evidence that Gillum is guilty of fraud or theft

You are running for office, there is an allegation of fraud in your position as mayor and there is an allegation of corruption in the city that you were mayor of.
Gillum has serious charges against him since they are made by undercover FBI agents. Of course he is not "guilty" of a crime without it being proven in the court of law. But as you know, the quality of the witness against one in court means everything. Ask Manafort. The IRS wants their money!

Personally I doubt that Gillum has not done anything that 80-90% of politicians have not done. Think about how politicians become so wealthy in office. Many are worth 10-100 times what their salary paid in office. How does that work? That's why I say that it is a given that all politicians are liars and crooks. That's like baseline morality. We build on that, good or bad.

Were Gillum a Republican, the media would be all over it. He would be publicly lynched. But as a progressive he mostly gets a free pass. If elected, will the DOJ file charges? They did against Menendez, and he may still win in NJ.
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Old 10-30-2018, 07:10 AM   #4649
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"My grandmother told me not to wrestle with pigs" is a deflection and indicates deceit.
My grandmother told me not to lie or steal.
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Old 10-30-2018, 07:44 AM   #4650
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My grandmother told me not to lie or steal.
Trump should have listened to your grandmother.
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Old 10-30-2018, 08:42 AM   #4651
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Trump should have listened to your grandmother.
If you were not so blinded by hate, I think you would see Trump as a forthright, results-oriented, and transparent President. As it is, you have lived off a media diet of biased fake news for years. Try to rationally analyze the accusations against Trump. Think about the Russian collusion charges which you bought into. After two years, they have nothing on Trump, so what do you think about all those who were so sure about him? Next think about the charges of white supremecy / anti semitism / fascism. No facts, but who cares? His daughter is Jewish. His support for Israel is second to none. But everyone seems to hate the guy so all mud-slinging is applauded. And celebrated in the media.
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Old 10-30-2018, 08:48 AM   #4652
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Trump should have listened to your grandmother.
That is fake news! There is no evidence that Trump ever talked to Ohio's grandmother.
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Old 10-30-2018, 08:53 AM   #4653
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If you were not so blinded by hate, I think you would see Trump as a forthright, results-oriented, and transparent President.
Are we still talking about the psychedelic drugs?

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As it is, you have lived off a media diet of biased fake news for years. Try to rationally analyze the accusations against Trump.
Vulgar. Rude. Incendiary.

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Think about the Russian collusion charges which you bought into. After two years, they have nothing on Trump, so what do you think about all those who were so sure about him?
Many, many indictments and guilty pleas. So far I am happy with how taxpayer money is spent and no doubt the investigation is not over, simply keeping quiet during the election.


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Next think about the charges of white supremecy / anti semitism / fascism. No facts, but who cares?
Perhaps, but it is undeniable that those of that persuasion are overwhelmingly pro Trump.


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His daughter is Jewish. His support for Israel is second to none. But everyone seems to hate the guy so all mud-slinging is applauded. And celebrated in the media.
I don't consider him to be anti Jewish, rather I consider him to be a nationalist, and of course he is white, and he is strongly anti immigration, protectionist, even perhaps xenophobic. I also consider his conversation to be frank, transparent, incendiary, and undignified.
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Old 10-30-2018, 09:10 AM   #4654
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How much responsibility does President Trump have for inciting the recent acts of political violence? Here's an opinion: "The president and his supporters insisted that several thousand Honduran migrants were a looming menace—and the Pittsburgh gunman took that seriously."
Before committing the Tree of Life massacre, the shooter, who blamed Jews for the caravan of “invaders” and who raged about it on social media, made it clear that he was furious at HIAS, founded as the Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society, a Jewish group that helps resettle refugees in the United States. He shared posts on Gab, a social-media site popular with the alt-right, expressing alarm at the sight of “massive human caravans of young men from Honduras and El Salvador invading America thru our unsecured southern border.” And then he wrote, HIAS likes to bring invaders in that kill our people. I can’t sit by and watch my people get slaughtered. Screw your optics, I’m going in.”

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...n-jews/574213/
So, I repeat the question: How much responsibility does President Trump have for inciting the recent acts of political violence?
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Old 10-30-2018, 09:46 AM   #4655
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How much responsibility does President Trump have for inciting the recent acts of political violence? Here's an opinion: "The president and his supporters insisted that several thousand Honduran migrants were a looming menace—and the Pittsburgh gunman took that seriously."
Before committing the Tree of Life massacre, the shooter, who blamed Jews for the caravan of “invaders” and who raged about it on social media, made it clear that he was furious at HIAS, founded as the Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society, a Jewish group that helps resettle refugees in the United States. He shared posts on Gab, a social-media site popular with the alt-right, expressing alarm at the sight of “massive human caravans of young men from Honduras and El Salvador invading America thru our unsecured southern border.” And then he wrote, HIAS likes to bring invaders in that kill our people. I can’t sit by and watch my people get slaughtered. Screw your optics, I’m going in.”

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...n-jews/574213/
So, I repeat the question: How much responsibility does President Trump have for inciting the recent acts of political violence?
It's like Domino's. You can't blame the first one for knocking down the last one.

Trump blames the media. The violence is their fault, for reporting and recording his inflammatory rhetoric.
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Old 10-30-2018, 10:30 AM   #4656
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I don't consider him to be anti Jewish, rather I consider him to be a nationalist, and of course he is white, and he is strongly anti immigration, protectionist, even perhaps xenophobic. I also consider his conversation to be frank, transparent, incendiary, and undignified.
What's wrong with NATIONALISM? It's the same as patriotism.

I strongly protest the accusations of "strongly anti immigration, even perhaps xenophobic." In this regard Trump only reverberates the desires of Americans. I do think "protectionist" is a great thing, however. Except for Obama, show me one President in history who was not PROTECTIONIST? Xenophobism is a false accusation. Trump only demands immigration that is legal and does not threaten American citizens. Sounds to me like "Law and Order."

Why is it that every politician, including Obama, Clintons', Schumer, etc. is on record supporting a southern wall and limits to immigration? Ten years ago even the Left would have been appalled at the thought of "Sanctuary" cities. My, how has America changed.

And how have you changed? Just because conservatives have resisted the daily onslaught of progressive ideology, gone crazy during the Obama era, does not mean we are guilty of any of the "-ISTS" and "-OBES" that we are accused of. It seems to me that you hate Trump because he fights back, as if being "presidential" means to be wimpy, and taken advantage of by the rest of the world, including the UN.
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Old 10-30-2018, 10:31 AM   #4657
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Not only does Trump stoke violence with his divisive, xenophobic rhetoric, but he shut down programs to counter violent extremism. His "administration has hobbled the infrastructure designed to prevent atrocities like Pittsburgh."

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...hbD-FB8asQzMiI
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Old 10-30-2018, 10:40 AM   #4658
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So, I repeat the question: How much responsibility does President Trump have for inciting the recent acts of political violence?
This guy in Pittsburgh despised Jews and hated Trump for siding with them. Sounds like a good reason to gather all his guns and go kill random, innocent Jews in a Synagogue? Yup, it's all Trump's fault. Then announce it on TV, and all the idiots in the world will believe it.

Your fellow Floridian Cesar Sayoc apparently liked Trump. Thus Trump has the exact same level of responsibility for those mail bombs as Bernie Sanders does for the actions of James T. Hodgkinson shooting up the Republican baseball team and almost killing Steve Scalise.

That would be ZERO.
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Old 10-30-2018, 11:09 AM   #4659
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These American Muslim's are acting so Christian. They're not inciting violence. They're showing love :

'We wish to respond to evil with good': Muslim Americans raise more than $150,000 for Pittsburgh synagogue shooting victims and their families

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...g-victims.html
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Old 10-30-2018, 11:22 AM   #4660
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What's wrong with NATIONALISM? It's the same as patriotism.
My accusations were rude, vulgar and incendiary. Those points you can assume are things that are "wrong". I didn't say his nationalism was wrong. But in the extreme it is wrong. Again, nothing wrong with protecting the borders, but xenophobia in the extreme is bad.

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I strongly protest the accusations of "strongly anti immigration, even perhaps xenophobic." In this regard Trump only reverberates the desires of Americans. I do think "protectionist" is a great thing, however. Except for Obama, show me one President in history who was not PROTECTIONIST? Xenophobism is a false accusation. Trump only demands immigration that is legal and does not threaten American citizens. Sounds to me like "Law and Order."
I did not accuse him of xenophobia, I said merely that it is a possibility given his attitude towards trade, borders, and our treaties.

Protectionism -- can be a very good strategy to get a better trade deal, if that is how he ultimately uses it then I applaud him. On the other hand protectionism as a policy is foolish, it shrinks the overall size of the pie, it hurts many economies including ours which leads to destabilization of regimes, wars, civil wars, revolutions, and all kinds of expenses that will dwarf the effects of a bad trade deal.

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Why is it that every politician, including Obama, Clintons', Schumer, etc. is on record supporting a southern wall and limits to immigration? Ten years ago even the Left would have been appalled at the thought of "Sanctuary" cities. My, how has America changed.

And how have you changed? Just because conservatives have resisted the daily onslaught of progressive ideology, gone crazy during the Obama era, does not mean we are guilty of any of the "-ISTS" and "-OBES" that we are accused of. It seems to me that you hate Trump because he fights back, as if being "presidential" means to be wimpy, and taken advantage of by the rest of the world, including the UN.
Once again the only "accusations" I made were vulgar, rude and incendiary. Those are three things that I dislike and which have not changed.

I am ambivalent towards his "wall". I have no issue with the President taking seriously his obligation to protect our borders. I am also simply a passenger watching as he renegotiates our treaties. If he does a better job I will give him credit, and I have no intention of being a backseat driver while he does that. If he wants to give the impression of being xenophobic to get a better deal, so be it. But there is a cost for the president to have the appearance of evil.

I don't think he is anti semitic. I am uncomfortable with his praise of dictators. But, I also agree that the media is making things much worse, and some of them are incredibly biased. Especially the comedians. The commentary has become very ugly. I don't agree with blaming Trump for that. You can't bloviate on the TV about how "unpresidential" he is if you are doing the same thing, even worse.
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Old 10-30-2018, 11:56 AM   #4661
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My accusations were rude, vulgar and incendiary. Those points you can assume are things that are "wrong". I didn't say his nationalism was wrong. But in the extreme it is wrong. Again, nothing wrong with protecting the borders, but xenophobia in the extreme is bad.



I did not accuse him of xenophobia, I said merely that it is a possibility given his attitude towards trade, borders, and our treaties.

Protectionism -- can be a very good strategy to get a better trade deal, if that is how he ultimately uses it then I applaud him. On the other hand protectionism as a policy is foolish, it shrinks the overall size of the pie, it hurts many economies including ours which leads to destabilization of regimes, wars, civil wars, revolutions, and all kinds of expenses that will dwarf the effects of a bad trade deal.



Once again the only "accusations" I made were vulgar, rude and incendiary. Those are three things that I dislike and which have not changed.

I am ambivalent towards his "wall". I have no issue with the President taking seriously his obligation to protect our borders. I am also simply a passenger watching as he renegotiates our treaties. If he does a better job I will give him credit, and I have no intention of being a backseat driver while he does that. If he wants to give the impression of being xenophobic to get a better deal, so be it. But there is a cost for the president to have the appearance of evil.

I don't think he is anti semitic. I am uncomfortable with his praise of dictators. But, I also agree that the media is making things much worse, and some of them are incredibly biased. Especially the comedians. The commentary has become very ugly. I don't agree with blaming Trump for that. You can't bloviate on the TV about how "unpresidential" he is if you are doing the same thing, even worse.
Yes by all means stop the comedians!
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Old 10-30-2018, 11:59 AM   #4662
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My accusations were rude, vulgar and incendiary. Those points you can assume are things that are "wrong". I didn't say his nationalism was wrong. But in the extreme it is wrong. Again, nothing wrong with protecting the borders, but xenophobia in the extreme is bad.
I agree with you that the media has been nothing but "rude, vulgar and incendiary" towards President Trump and his family.

Would you like a list of examples? I'll start with calling Ivanka a "feckless c**t, threatening to sodomize Baron, and sending white powder to Don Jr. hospitalizing his wife for 2 weeks. Vanessa was so traumatized she left the marriage and all public life.

Perhaps you don't think these are "rude, vulgar and incendiary?"
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Old 10-30-2018, 12:29 PM   #4663
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I agree with you that the media has been nothing but "rude, vulgar and incendiary" towards President Trump and his family.
But Trump isn't identifying just who among the fake news is the enemy of the people. If it's true, and Trump doesn't tell us just who our enemy is, isn't he then complicit with the enemy of the people?
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Old 10-30-2018, 12:40 PM   #4664
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But Trump isn't identifying just who among the fake news is the enemy of the people. If it's true, and Trump doesn't tell us just who our enemy is, isn't he then complicit with the enemy of the people?
So let me understand this. If Trump does not spell them out by name, as if we actually need that, then he is still guilty.

Yup, makes a lot of sense.

You have just given us a new standard for guilt.
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Old 10-30-2018, 03:09 PM   #4665
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Here's the nuts and bolts about this crooked extremist Gillum:
Florida gubernatorial candidate and Tallahassee Mayor Andrew Gillum served as the director of a radical youth training organization whose mission was to challenge U.S. “predatory capitalism,” abolish the prison system, fight a “spiritual resistance” battle against “Christian hegemony,” redefine the meaning of “borders” while aiding “undocumented” aliens, and enact the “collective liberation” of “communities of color” amid what it described as the scourge of “white supremacy.”

Gillum’s group accused the U.S. of being a “colonialist” power perpetrating “structural violence” and “continued genocide.” It claimed conservatives in the U.S. judicial system were “justifying white supremacist policing practices.” All of that extremist rhetoric and more was posted on the official “issues” sections of the organization’s website while Gillum not only served as its active director, but while his picture, position and bio were brandished on the same site on the “staff” page.

Gillum, Lettman-Hicks and Dream Defenders’ Agnew each are graduates of an Oakland, California-based training school for progressive revolutionaries that has spawned a list of activists who have gone on to become the who’s who of the far-left leadership world, with many taking senior positions at organizations financed by Soros.

In scores of cases, graduates of the Rockwood Leadership Institute founded or directed notorious Soros-financed activist groups, such as Black Lives Matter, Media Matters for America, MoveOn.org and the Tides Foundation, one of the nation’s largest funders of progressive groups. Soros’s own Open Society Foundations sent top staff to Rockwood for training. Notorious radicals Van Jones and Linda Sarsour are among the many famous names listed as alums.
Hey zeek, does he sound good for America? Sounds like the makings for Hitler's National Socialist Workers Party.
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Old 10-30-2018, 03:33 PM   #4666
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I agree with you that the media has been nothing but "rude, vulgar and incendiary" towards President Trump and his family.

Would you like a list of examples? I'll start with calling Ivanka a "feckless c**t, threatening to sodomize Baron, and sending white powder to Don Jr. hospitalizing his wife for 2 weeks. Vanessa was so traumatized she left the marriage and all public life.

Perhaps you don't think these are "rude, vulgar and incendiary?"
The person who said that would be characterized as a comedian. Like I said they have expressed the worst bias.
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Old 10-30-2018, 05:06 PM   #4667
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The person who said that would be characterized as a comedian. Like I said they have expressed the worst bias.
How can you justify spewing hate and vitriol in the name of comedy?

America is a country addicted to its laughter by so-called comedians. It used to be that late night ones like Leno, Letterman, Carson, Rivers, etc. were basically neutral. Today you would be hard pressed to find anything but hard left, obnoxious, R-rated, Trump hating comedians. Someone conservative like Tim Allen is hard pressed just to stay on TV.

When I refer to the "mainstream media," comedy is also included, and is regrettably a huge part of our culture.
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Old 10-30-2018, 05:53 PM   #4668
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How can you justify spewing hate and vitriol in the name of comedy?

America is a country addicted to its laughter by so-called comedians. It used to be that late night ones like Leno, Letterman, Carson, Rivers, etc. were basically neutral. Today you would be hard pressed to find anything but hard left, obnoxious, R-rated, Trump hating comedians. Someone conservative like Tim Allen is hard pressed just to stay on TV.

When I refer to the "mainstream media," comedy is also included, and is regrettably a huge part of our culture.
Where did I justify it?

Do you read what I say? You "strongly protest" the accusation of strongly anti immigration. Is that for real, how could anyone disagree that Trump is strongly anti immigration, his platform is the wall, shutting down the border, and numerous other comments that indicate a change in policy towards reducing and controlling immigration.

You say that xenophobic is a false accusation. I never accused Trump of this, only said it was a possibility.

You accuse me of hating Trump when there is nothing that I have said in over two years that could be used to support that.

And now in this post you accuse me of justifying these comedians. I haven't justified them, I have pointed out that their accusations of Trump being to blame for the ugly discourse is hypocritical and their own bias disqualifies anything they say to this end. I have said that their bias is demonstrated in the extreme. How is my saying they have exhibited the worst bias seen by you as justifying them?

I agree that it is getting very difficult to listen to anything these comedians do or say. I think it is because their audience is the young 20 something crowd. I used to like Jonathan Stewart, I thought he gave an insightful perspective on the news and loved his ability to pull up old footage and tapes exhibiting the hypocrisy of various leaders. His replacement, on the other hand, is terrible.
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Old 10-30-2018, 06:21 PM   #4669
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Where did I justify it?
To me, when someone passes hateful rhetoric off as comedy, it sounded like you were excusing it.

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Do you read what I say? You "strongly protest" the accusation of strongly anti immigration. Is that for real, how could anyone disagree that Trump is strongly anti immigration, his platform is the wall, shutting down the border, and numerous other comments that indicate a change in policy towards reducing and controlling immigration.
I disagree. Millions of Americans would also disagree.

Trump has ALWAYS said that he is for LEGAL and SAFE immigration. That is obviously too difficult for the LEFT to understand. When ISIS fighters were disguised as Syrian et.al. refugees, Trump limited immigration from certain dangerous countries, ones previously marked out by the Obama admin. Have you seen the crime waves in England, Germany, France, and Sweden? But then the Left smears Trump as Anti-Muslim.

We have drugs, gangs, and illegals crossing our Southern border every day. Every aged politician is on record supporting a wall and restricted immigration. Trump comes along and decides to stop talking and start building. The Left, including posters here, once again smears him as a xenophobe, as anti-immigrant, as white supremacist, as racist, as hateful, as Fascist, etc.

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You say that xenophobic is a false accusation. I never accused Trump of this, only said it was a possibility.
Forgive my semantics. I thought accusations of anti-immigrant were the same as that.

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You accuse me of hating Trump when there is nothing that I have said in over two years that could be used to support that.
Sorry if I lumped you in with other haters. It's hard at times to distinguish constant condemnation from "hatred." I admit that your comments are more reserved than others.

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And now in this post you accuse me of justifying these comedians. I haven't justified them, I have pointed out that there accusations of Trump being to blame for the ugly discourse is hypocritical and their own bias disqualifies anything they say to this end. I have said that their bias is demonstrated in the extreme. How does my saying they have exhibited the worst bias seen by you as justifying them?
Thanks for nuancing your views.
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Old 10-30-2018, 09:03 PM   #4670
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Trump has ALWAYS said that he is for LEGAL and SAFE immigration. That is obviously too difficult for the LEFT to understand. When ISIS fighters were disguised as Syrian et.al. refugees, Trump limited immigration from certain dangerous countries, ones previously marked out by the Obama admin. Have you seen the crime waves in England, Germany, France, and Sweden? But then the Left smears Trump as Anti-Muslim.

We have drugs, gangs, and illegals crossing our Southern border every day. Every aged politician is on record supporting a wall and restricted immigration. Trump comes along and decides to stop talking and start building. The Left, including posters here, once again smears him as a xenophobe, as anti-immigrant, as white supremacist, as racist, as hateful, as Fascist, etc.
This is semantics. You don't like my simplification of "anti immigration" fine, but the reality is that his focus from the first day of his campaign has had immigration reform as a centerpiece. And by reform we are referring to shipping millions of "illegal" immigrants back to their country, building a wall, and even using presidential decrees to limit immigration.


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Forgive my semantics. I thought accusations of anti-immigrant were the same as that.
I didn't say "anti immigrant" that is a misquote, I said "anti immigration".

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Sorry if I lumped you in with other haters. It's hard at times to distinguish constant condemnation from "hatred." I admit that your comments are more reserved than others.

Thanks for nuancing your views.
You are confusing condemnation with observation. When I say he is rude that is an observation that cannot be denied, nor does the fact that there are other rude people change that. Likewise when I say he is vulgar, sure you can call it "locker room talk" and no doubt others like Kavanaugh have also done the same, but that doesn't make the observation less valid. Likewise when I say his remarks are incendiary. That is a fact. That is the secret to his success. He was able to use twitter to suck all the air out of all the other candidates.

No one gets elected president who isn't talented. Trump's vulgarity and rudeness are part of his talent at being incendiary. Obama was talented, Clinton was talented, even Bush was talented. They all had their talents, that doesn't in any way imply they were good leaders or that they were moral people. The question is to what end does he use his talents. We are told to not judge before the time. Too many have judged Trump before the time. It is too early to do that.
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Old 10-31-2018, 09:10 AM   #4671
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Yo, OBW, just like John McCain, if you wanted some "love" in your life, you did the right thing -- just hate the Trump, and the Lefty's here will love you.

Oh, and do take some time and tell us about that terrible Ted Cruz.
Your response is expected (from someone — not necessarily you). Everything is black and white. There are the Conservatives and Liberals. Nothing in between. Polarization gone viral. Nobody can have any considerations to the left of the far right without being in Bernie Sander's pocket.

I had more to say, but I think that this sums up the problem with the Evangelical Christian love fest with Trump.

FEAR
Fear of:
Liberals
Foreigners
Other ethnicities
Gays
Abortionists
There is no consideration that the kingdom of the world is not (at this time) the kingdom of our God. But we are. And we should live like we are. We should "fear not." Fear not the sword, or the tax man. Or the civil allowance of "marriage" between two persons of the same sex.

We are not required to define marriage for purposes of the church on the basis of the civil/legal definition in vogue at the time.

But we are required to love them the same as we love ourselves. And the way so many Christians are railing against people not like themselves (other ethnicities, those in the caravan, from Middle-Eastern nations, LGBQ, etc.) it is clear that they either are failing at the call to love, or don't really think much of themselves.
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Old 10-31-2018, 09:24 AM   #4672
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The Democrats never gave him the presumption of innocence. They demanded more than perfection.
The presumption of innocence technically does not apply to nomination confirmations. The question is not whether the person should or should not be jailed, or even just put on parole. It is whether he should be given a job — in this case a lifetime job on the Supreme Court.

If character matters for a president who can only give us grief for 8 years, then it should really matter for a SCOTUS judge. Too many questions could be enough. There is no bright line of "beyond a reasonable doubt," or even "more likely than not." It is not unreasonable to withhold confirmation just because there were too many unanswered (or inadequately answered) questions.
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Old 10-31-2018, 10:46 AM   #4673
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The presumption of innocence technically does not apply to nomination confirmations. The question is not whether the person should or should not be jailed, or even just put on parole. It is whether he should be given a job — in this case a lifetime job on the Supreme Court.

If character matters for a president who can only give us grief for 8 years, then it should really matter for a SCOTUS judge. Too many questions could be enough. There is no bright line of "beyond a reasonable doubt," or even "more likely than not." It is not unreasonable to withhold confirmation just because there were too many unanswered (or inadequately answered) questions.
Are you kidding, or has TDS just gripped your sanity?

The presumption of innocence applies to every area of life! What if I started making accusations about you on this forum? What if I walk into a church and accuse the pastor? What if I walk into the police station and accuse the police? Or listen to one child tattle/fib about another? Only the naivest of people would believe such accusations without corroborative proof. No, my friend, the presumption of innocence is the bedrock of a free world.

I heard that some are coming forward with allegations against Muller. It seems like special prosecutors are also appointed for life. Where do you draw your "bright line" here.
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Old 10-31-2018, 10:58 AM   #4674
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The presumption of innocence technically does not apply to nomination confirmations. The question is not whether the person should or should not be jailed, or even just put on parole. It is whether he should be given a job — in this case a lifetime job on the Supreme Court.

If character matters for a president who can only give us grief for 8 years, then it should really matter for a SCOTUS judge. Too many questions could be enough. There is no bright line of "beyond a reasonable doubt," or even "more likely than not." It is not unreasonable to withhold confirmation just because there were too many unanswered (or inadequately answered) questions.
I agree with this. However, I feel that this should not be a license to smear or falsely accuse, which is clearly what ultimately happened with Kavanaugh. If Feinstein had raised this concern in the closed session it could have all been answered and investigated without slandering. Instead we got some woman accusing him of being involved in a gang rape in the media. So he was unable to defend himself, it wasn't done in the hearing, lowering her risk of perjury, yet was clearly damaging to Kavanaugh and his family. Feinstein should be held accountable for this. Now if this woman is held accountable a Supreme court justice will have to take her to court for slander. That in turn creates a whole new media circus. Feinstein should be held accountable for creating this travesty.

It seems to me that public comments and concerns should be left to those that have been verified with 2 or more witnesses, FBI investigative conclusions, etc. and unverified charges should be limited to closed door sessions.

Just as we should be holding our elected officials and nominees to important positions to a higher standard than "reasonable doubt" we also should not be ignorant that there will be political forces that wish to defeat the nominee/ candidate by any means necessary. For example, this case with the women being bribed to accuse Mueller of sexual harassment:
Robert Mueller: Woman targeted by inept plot to bring down US special counsel reveals how it rapidly fell apart
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Old 10-31-2018, 11:10 AM   #4675
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Are you kidding, or has TDS just gripped your sanity?

The presumption of innocence applies to every area of life! What if I started making accusations about you on this forum? What if I walk into a church and accuse the pastor? What if I walk into the police station and accuse the police? Or listen to one child tattle/fib about another? Only the naivest of people would believe such accusations without corroborative proof. No, my friend, the presumption of innocence is the bedrock of a free world.

I heard that some are coming forward with allegations against Muller. It seems like special prosecutors are also appointed for life. Where do you draw your "bright line" here.
You don't know what you are talking about. The standard for a criminal trial is much higher than for a civil trial. This is why a policeman can be found "not guilty" of a crime and still lose a lawsuit for millions of dollars in civil court.

There are many pieces of evidence that can be excluded from a criminal trial, that is not true of a hearing.

What OBW said is true, the hearing is not about "the presumption of innocence" since this is not a criminal trial. No one has been accused of a crime, nor is the purpose to determine if someone is guilty of a crime. For example, with Kavanaugh no one was there to determine if he was guilty of sexual assault, the question before them was "is this a man we want as a Supreme court justice". There are many people who are "innocent" who I don't want as a Supreme court justice. Being "innocent" is not a qualification for the Supreme court (being guilty could be seen as a disqualification though).

Vote for Kavanaugh for the Supreme Court because he is presumed innocent of sexual assault!

Just doesn't work for me.
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Old 10-31-2018, 11:45 AM   #4676
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The presumption of innocence technically does not apply to nomination confirmations. The question is not whether the person should or should not be jailed, or even just put on parole. It is whether he should be given a job — in this case a lifetime job on the Supreme Court.

If character matters for a president who can only give us grief for 8 years, then it should really matter for a SCOTUS judge. Too many questions could be enough. There is no bright line of "beyond a reasonable doubt," or even "more likely than not." It is not unreasonable to withhold confirmation just because there were too many unanswered (or inadequately answered) questions.
If you review this thread you'll see that Mister Ohio argues for and against the presumption of innocence depending on whether or not the principal advances his extreme right-wing position in a particular context. So he argued for the presumption of innocence in the case of Kavanaugh and argues against it in the case of Andrew Gillum. I agree with you that it is a legal right that applies to the accused in a criminal trial. Neither Kavanaugh nor Gilliam have been charged with criminal offenses so the presumption of innocence is irrelevant to their situations at this time. When Mr Ohio misapplies the principal he is just parroting his idol Donald Trump. You will recall that that kind of mimicry was encouraged in the local church where the idol was Witness Lee. Habits learned by the herd die hard.
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Old 10-31-2018, 12:21 PM   #4677
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You don't know what you are talking about. The standard for a criminal trial is much higher than for a civil trial. This is why a policeman can be found "not guilty" of a crime and still lose a lawsuit for millions of dollars in civil court.

There are many pieces of evidence that can be excluded from a criminal trial, that is not true of a hearing.

What OBW said is true, the hearing is not about "the presumption of innocence" since this is not a criminal trial. No one has been accused of a crime, nor is the purpose to determine if someone is guilty of a crime. For example, with Kavanaugh no one was there to determine if he was guilty of sexual assault, the question before them was "is this a man we want as a Supreme court justice". There are many people who are "innocent" who I don't want as a Supreme court justice. Being "innocent" is not a qualification for the Supreme court (being guilty could be seen as a disqualification though).

Vote for Kavanaugh for the Supreme Court because he is presumed innocent of sexual assault!

Just doesn't work for me.
I never said this. You don't know what you are talking about. That is pure BS!

Actually your last post enumerated most of my position -- Make the accuser liable, handle accusations privately, require two witnesses, etc.

None of this was done. Just a political hit job, as Clarence Thomas said "a high tech lynching."

Lousy-Ford was not a credible witness, rather a serial liar. She even lied about taking airplane flights. She was so stupid that she had no idea how easily this could be checked. She lied about why she was in counseling, she had two front doors installed long before then.

Democrats on the Senate Committee knew she was a false witness, so they desperately looked for other "victims." Sleazy porn lawyer Avenatti to the rescue! And since useful idiots abound in the Democratic Party, surely they will all believe that Miss Swetnick went back ten times to watch Kavanaugh drug and rape high school girls. Thank God some brave soul finally came forward to expose Kavanaugh!

Here is the real situation. Kavanaugh went thru six (then seven) extensive FBI background checks. They found nothing of the sort. ZNP, zeek, and OBW conveniently leave this out. Kavanaugh had a stellar reputation for decades. Every one who knows him is willing to vouch for his integrity. Every person named by Lousy-Ford as a witness had no recollection of her story. No second witness. Caught lying on numerous occasions. No corroborative evidence. No I don't believe her. Kavanaugh maintains the presumption of innocence until evidence him accountable.

Read the book of Job. Read the book in light of the Kavanaugh hearings. Job was accused of sin, hidden sin, by his close friends and that's supposedly why he was under judgment. Read his responses. Not so pretty at times. An innocent man wrongly accused. An innocent man crying out for justice. In the end an innocent man vindicated by God.
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Old 10-31-2018, 12:36 PM   #4678
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You don't know what you are talking about. The standard for a criminal trial is much higher than for a civil trial. This is why a policeman can be found "not guilty" of a crime and still lose a lawsuit for millions of dollars in civil court.
Regardless of the standard required for "burden of proof," there is still a standard. Whether criminal or civil court, the accused is still innocent until proven guilty.

Kavanaugh was not entitled to a criminal or civil trial to prove his innocence. No one has demanded that. That is classic straw man defense. His judge, his defense and prosecution attorneys, and his jury was the US Senate, operating under their constitutional duty to advise and consent. The Senate has already made the rules for how nominees will be handled in their Court. Feinstein broke those rules and should be disciplined.

Once society removes the presumption of innocence, we have totalitarian anarchy. If every accusation is to be believed without facts, witnesses, or evidence, what a sad day that will be in America. Communist dictators behaved this way and millions died. How unfortunate that none of the other posters here is able to understand this. What happened to you all?
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Old 10-31-2018, 12:52 PM   #4679
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If you review this thread you'll see that Mister Ohio argues for and against the presumption of innocence depending on whether or not the principal advances his extreme right-wing position in a particular context. So he argued for the presumption of innocence in the case of Kavanaugh and argues against it in the case of Andrew Gillum. I agree with you that it is a legal right that applies to the accused in a criminal trial. Neither Kavanaugh nor Gilliam have been charged with criminal offenses so the presumption of innocence is irrelevant to their situations at this time.
This is not true. And you know it. Once again you post deceit.

Gillum is innocent until evidence is presented. If some jerk or political hack comes forward asserting accusations of corruption, without any evidence, then throw the jerk out. If some unknown woman comes forward with 36 year old accusations of abuse, yet no corroborating evidence, then throw her out.

Gillum is a public servant, elected to office by the city of Tallahassee, and should be protected from specious, frivolous claims. Neither should he ever be the victim of slander.

But! It was an undercover FBI agent who was paid off posing as a developer. Gillum used the power of the purse to line his own pockets. But if the charges by the FBI Agent are false, then Gillum can easily prove it. Why did he not do so? He has numerous office staff who could vouch for his whereabouts on the day of the Hamilton show, and staff that could prove actual payment. Why did he not do so.

Why can't zeek know the difference? Because zeek is shipwrecked. He has not held onto faith or a good conscience. (I Tim 1.19) Perhaps Gillum is his idol. "Little children, guard yourselves from idols." (I John 5.20)
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Old 10-31-2018, 01:00 PM   #4680
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Just as we should be holding our elected officials and nominees to important positions to a higher standard than "reasonable doubt" we also should not be ignorant that there will be political forces that wish to defeat the nominee/ candidate by any means necessary. For example, this case with the women being bribed to accuse Mueller of sexual harassment:
Robert Mueller: Woman targeted by inept plot to bring down US special counsel reveals how it rapidly fell apart
I find it highly partisan that you would be suspicion of "political forces" wishing to undermine Special Prosecutor Muller, but not also suspicious of "political forces" wishing to undermine Kavanaugh, or for that matter, why are you not also suspicious of "political forces" wishing to undermine Trump?

Double standards? Hypocrisy? Political bias?

Or have you carefully weighed all the available facts?
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Old 10-31-2018, 02:00 PM   #4681
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Donald J. Trump

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@realDonaldTrump
3h3 hours ago
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Paul Ryan should be focusing on holding the Majority rather than giving his opinions on Birthright Citizenship, something he knows nothing about! Our new Republican Majority will work on this, Closing the Immigration Loopholes and Securing our Border!

Yeah Paul Ryan! I'm just stoking my political base with lies to get them fired up for the mid term election. If your going to be a fuddy duddy and stick to the truth, you need shut up and get out of my way! Bahahaha
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Old 10-31-2018, 04:06 PM   #4682
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Here is the real situation. Kavanaugh went thru six (then seven) extensive FBI background checks. They found nothing of the sort. ZNP, zeek, and OBW conveniently leave this out. Kavanaugh had a stellar reputation for decades. Every one who knows him is willing to vouch for his integrity. Every person named by Lousy-Ford as a witness had no recollection of her story. No second witness. Caught lying on numerous occasions. No corroborative evidence. No I don't believe her. Kavanaugh maintains the presumption of innocence until evidence him accountable.

Read the book of Job. Read the book in light of the Kavanaugh hearings. Job was accused of sin, hidden sin, by his close friends and that's supposedly why he was under judgment. Read his responses. Not so pretty at times. An innocent man wrongly accused. An innocent man crying out for justice. In the end an innocent man vindicated by God.
Oh please. I agree that Feinstein's behavior was reprehensible, and that the Democrats bloviating during the hearing was all for political theater and I agree that many of the pundits and comedians have behaved despicably.

That said I do not agree that Kavanaugh should be sainted. He was a teenage basketball player who liked beer and parties. He might have done things that he is now ashamed of. I don't have an issue with Ford. I feel that she was right to send a letter with this complaint if it were true. She was forced to go public because of Feinstein's reprehensible behavior. If this had been handled properly, behind closed doors, it would have been better for everyone involved.
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Old 10-31-2018, 04:10 PM   #4683
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Regardless of the standard required for "burden of proof," there is still a standard. Whether criminal or civil court, the accused is still innocent until proven guilty.

Kavanaugh was not entitled to a criminal or civil trial to prove his innocence. No one has demanded that. That is classic straw man defense. His judge, his defense and prosecution attorneys, and his jury was the US Senate, operating under their constitutional duty to advise and consent. The Senate has already made the rules for how nominees will be handled in their Court. Feinstein broke those rules and should be disciplined.

Once society removes the presumption of innocence, we have totalitarian anarchy. If every accusation is to be believed without facts, witnesses, or evidence, what a sad day that will be in America. Communist dictators behaved this way and millions died. How unfortunate that none of the other posters here is able to understand this. What happened to you all?
Look if this had been done behind closed doors they would have politely listened to Ford and then confirmed Kavanaugh. Feinstein knew this, so she went public. She did this despite Ford wanting to remain anonymous (closed door hearing) and she did this at the 11th hour is a transparent attempt to delay the confirmation. All of your complaints about how unrighteous this was to Kavanaugh are because of what Feinstein did, not what Ford did.

Once again, the issue was never guilt or innocence, but will you vote to confirm him.
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Old 10-31-2018, 04:14 PM   #4684
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This is not true. And you know it. Once again you post deceit.

Gillum is innocent until evidence is presented. If some jerk or political hack comes forward asserting accusations of corruption, without any evidence, then throw the jerk out. If some unknown woman comes forward with 36 year old accusations of abuse, yet no corroborating evidence, then throw her out.

Gillum is a public servant, elected to office by the city of Tallahassee, and should be protected from specious, frivolous claims. Neither should he ever be the victim of slander.

But! It was an undercover FBI agent who was paid off posing as a developer. Gillum used the power of the purse to line his own pockets. But if the charges by the FBI Agent are false, then Gillum can easily prove it. Why did he not do so? He has numerous office staff who could vouch for his whereabouts on the day of the Hamilton show, and staff that could prove actual payment. Why did he not do so.

Why can't zeek know the difference? Because zeek is shipwrecked. He has not held onto faith or a good conscience. (I Tim 1.19) Perhaps Gillum is his idol. "Little children, guard yourselves from idols." (I John 5.20)
There is no doubt that the evidence against Gillum based on this witness is much stronger than the evidence against Kavanaugh. No DA would investigate based on Ford's allegations, it would be a joke, likewise the FBI wasn't going to initiate an investigation unless ordered to do so. The fact that the FBI is investigating indicates they have a stronger basis than anything Ford presented. That said, until Gillum is convicted he also deserves the presumption of innocence. On the other hand if Trump's accusations that he is a thief sways some voters, well that is fair.
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Old 10-31-2018, 04:16 PM   #4685
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I find it highly partisan that you would be suspicion of "political forces" wishing to undermine Special Prosecutor Muller, but not also suspicious of "political forces" wishing to undermine Kavanaugh, or for that matter, why are you not also suspicious of "political forces" wishing to undermine Trump?

Double standards? Hypocrisy? Political bias?

Or have you carefully weighed all the available facts?
Why would I be suspicious, it was obvious. I have repeatedly said that Feinstein's behavior was reprehensible. No need for a conspiracy theory, we have proof of political forces attempting to undermine Kavanaugh's confirmation.

As for Trump you obviously have not read my posts. I said a long, long time ago that I work in Brooklyn. Obama is almost considered a saint here. You should have seen the shock and disbelief on the faces when he was attacked. It was as though they thought the attacks on Bush and Clinton were simply due to them being evil white men, but had no idea that a saint would suffer the same attacks. If you want to be president but then are shocked to learn that you will be attacked, criticized, critiqued, and challenged at every turn then you have no business being president. You are too naive for this game. It is like a heavyweight prize fighter being shocked that his opponent would punch him.
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