Local Church Discussions  

Go Back   Local Church Discussions > Alternative Views - Click Here to Start New Thread

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-24-2017, 12:13 PM   #1
awareness
Member
 
awareness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 7,588
Default I've been WIPOed.

In putting a copy of Tony Lambert's report on the Shouters in China on my domain, I noticed something odd. My Local Church folder was locked with notices, in my Jim Moran folder, from The World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO).

Jim Moran was an early opposer of Witness Lee and the Local Church on the web. He took the domain name "localchurch.com." Lee, Kangas, and LSM took him to the international court, claiming rights to the domain name, and lost their case.

In short, Jim Moran died, and his children assumed his intellectual property rights. Then LSM bought them, copyrighted them, hold's the rights to them exclusively, and apparently enforces it. The result is Jim Moran and his web material is apparently so powerful against Lee that they forbid anyone quoting from them, or re-posting them on the web. That would mean it's in violation of The World Intellectual Property Organization.

A brother had a packet of Moran's web material (I won't reveal his name) in hard copy ; something like 200 pages. He sent them to me and I scanned them into a pdf document.

I put them up on my domain, with no meta data to attract attention, thinking only to share the link with a few others. I forgot to take it down and it was found by LSM, who made my domain provider take it down with a WIPO warning.

I just thought I'd put this up here, as a matter of record.
__________________
Cults: My brain will always be there for you. Thinking. So you don't have to.
awareness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2017, 02:08 PM   #2
Ohio
Member
 
Ohio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Greater Ohio
Posts: 12,379
Default Re: I've been WIPOed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
In putting a copy of Tony Lambert's report on the Shouters in China on my domain, I noticed something odd. My Local Church folder was locked with notices, in my Jim Moran folder, from The World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO).

Jim Moran was an early opposer of Witness Lee and the Local Church on the web. He took the domain name "localchurch.com." Lee, Kangas, and LSM took him to the international court, claiming rights to the domain name, and lost their case.

In short, Jim Moran died, and his children assumed his intellectual property rights. Then LSM bought them, copyrighted them, hold's the rights to them exclusively, and apparently enforces it. The result is Jim Moran and his web material is apparently so powerful against Lee that they forbid anyone quoting from them, or re-posting them on the web. That would mean it's in violation of The World Intellectual Property Organization.

A brother had a packet of Moran's web material (I won't reveal his name) in hard copy ; something like 200 pages. He sent them to me and I scanned them into a pdf document.

I put them up on my domain, with no meta data to attract attention, thinking only to share the link with a few others. I forgot to take it down and it was found by LSM, who made my domain provider take it down with a WIPO warning.

I just thought I'd put this up here, as a matter of record.
You got WIPO'ed. Never heard of those guys. That's funny.

Been a while since we have heard from DCP. You must have thought they would retire after losing against Heritage House at the SCOTUS, and writing all those tracts against TC and Dong.

How many millions of dollars have been offered up by the saints supposedly "for the gospel," only to learn that the money went to lawyers instead.
__________________
Ohio's motto is: With God all things are possible!.
Keeping all my posts short, quick, living, and to the point!
Ohio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2018, 11:06 AM   #3
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: I've been WIPOed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
In putting a copy of Tony Lambert's report on the Shouters in China on my domain, I noticed something odd. My Local Church folder was locked with notices, in my Jim Moran folder, from The World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO).

Jim Moran was an early opposer of Witness Lee and the Local Church on the web. He took the domain name "localchurch.com." Lee, Kangas, and LSM took him to the international court, claiming rights to the domain name, and lost their case.

In short, Jim Moran died, and his children assumed his intellectual property rights. Then LSM bought them, copyrighted them, hold's the rights to them exclusively, and apparently enforces it. The result is Jim Moran and his web material is apparently so powerful against Lee that they forbid anyone quoting from them, or re-posting them on the web. That would mean it's in violation of The World Intellectual Property Organization.

A brother had a packet of Moran's web material (I won't reveal his name) in hard copy ; something like 200 pages. He sent them to me and I scanned them into a pdf document.

I put them up on my domain, with no meta data to attract attention, thinking only to share the link with a few others. I forgot to take it down and it was found by LSM, who made my domain provider take it down with a WIPO warning.

I just thought I'd put this up here, as a matter of record.
Hi, Awareness,
I would like to have a copy of what I posted in testimonies section of Jim Morgan's website. How do I go about this? Is it even possible? This was many, many years ago. How can I get my contact information to you?
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2018, 06:58 PM   #4
awareness
Member
 
awareness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 7,588
Default Re: I've been WIPOed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Hi, Awareness,
I would like to have a copy of what I posted in testimonies section of Jim Morgan's website. How do I go about this? Is it even possible? This was many, many years ago. How can I get my contact information to you?
If I could get your email address I could send it to you.
__________________
Cults: My brain will always be there for you. Thinking. So you don't have to.
awareness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2018, 02:04 PM   #5
awareness
Member
 
awareness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 7,588
Default Re: I've been WIPOed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
Hi, Awareness,
I would like to have a copy of what I posted in testimonies section of Jim Morgan's website. How do I go about this? Is it even possible? This was many, many years ago. How can I get my contact information to you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
If I could get your email address I could send it to you.
cell = *** *** ****
Hidey-ho-hidey-hey, the sister got my number. Serendipitously, perchance, Just before bro Untohim deleted it. Amen Lord, for thwarting bro Untohim.
__________________
Cults: My brain will always be there for you. Thinking. So you don't have to.
awareness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2018, 07:05 PM   #6
UntoHim
Grateful Servant
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,050
Default Re: I've been WIPOed.

Harold, Harold, Harold. You are a funny dude!
__________________
Unto Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen. (Ephesians 3:21)
UntoHim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2018, 09:13 AM   #7
awareness
Member
 
awareness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 7,588
Default Re: I've been WIPOed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UntoHim View Post
Harold, Harold, Harold. You are a funny dude!
Hey, I sent her all kinds of info. She's very appreciative. We talked for over an hour. Ii wish she would sign up and join us.
__________________
Cults: My brain will always be there for you. Thinking. So you don't have to.
awareness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2018, 03:40 AM   #8
clever sister
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 50
Default Re: I've been WIPOed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
In putting a copy of Tony Lambert's report on the Shouters in China on my domain, I noticed something odd. My Local Church folder was locked with notices, in my Jim Moran folder, from The World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO).

Jim Moran was an early opposer of Witness Lee and the Local Church on the web. He took the domain name "localchurch.com." Lee, Kangas, and LSM took him to the international court, claiming rights to the domain name, and lost their case.

In short, Jim Moran died, and his children assumed his intellectual property rights. Then LSM bought them, copyrighted them, hold's the rights to them exclusively, and apparently enforces it. The result is Jim Moran and his web material is apparently so powerful against Lee that they forbid anyone quoting from them, or re-posting them on the web. That would mean it's in violation of The World Intellectual Property Organization.

A brother had a packet of Moran's web material (I won't reveal his name) in hard copy ; something like 200 pages. He sent them to me and I scanned them into a pdf document.

I put them up on my domain, with no meta data to attract attention, thinking only to share the link with a few others. I forgot to take it down and it was found by LSM, who made my domain provider take it down with a WIPO warning.

I just thought I'd put this up here, as a matter of record.
I looked up the website and it just said "Soon!"

A bit ominous
clever sister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2018, 10:03 AM   #9
awareness
Member
 
awareness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 7,588
Default Re: I've been WIPOed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clever sister View Post
I looked up the website and it just said "Soon!"

A bit ominous
One thing is for sure. There won't be anything Jim Moran on it.
__________________
Cults: My brain will always be there for you. Thinking. So you don't have to.
awareness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2019, 09:36 AM   #10
diakonos
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 3
Default Re: I've been WIPOed.

Dear All,
It is correct that Jim Moran's website (www.thelocalchurch.org) was taken down on 2003.

On a separate note, I came across and amazing internet tool called the wayback machine. You can go to https://web.archive.org , type in the name of the website and view archived pages of all kinds of websites (ones that still exist and ones that no longer exist).
[If I could only think of a way to use this wonderful resource...]
__________________
~diakonos

"Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world." Heb 1:1-2 ESV
diakonos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2019, 11:39 AM   #11
Ohio
Member
 
Ohio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Greater Ohio
Posts: 12,379
Default Re: I've been WIPOed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by diakonos View Post
Dear All,
It is correct that Jim Moran's website (www.thelocalchurch.org) was taken down on 2003.

On a separate note, I came across and amazing internet tool called the wayback machine. You can go to https://web.archive.org , type in the name of the website and view archived pages of all kinds of websites (ones that still exist and ones that no longer exist).
[If I could only think of a way to use this wonderful resource...]
I never felt Jim Moran's work was valuable. He focused on "modalism" which is most irrelevant and understandable to most Christians.

Though Moran visited the church in Chicago for months, he really had no clue concerning the issues facing LCers.
__________________
Ohio's motto is: With God all things are possible!.
Keeping all my posts short, quick, living, and to the point!
Ohio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2019, 08:23 PM   #12
awareness
Member
 
awareness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 7,588
Default Re: I've been WIPOed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
I never felt Jim Moran's work was valuable. He focused on "modalism" which is most irrelevant and understandable to most Christians.

Though Moran visited the church in Chicago for months, he really had no clue concerning the issues facing LCers.
Despite Moran's failings and shortcomings he was a pioneer of sorts. He went on the internet and exposed the cultish aspects of the LC. And LSM & Kangas hated it with a vengeance (and even had David Kangas start "jimmoranexposed.org" (or some such), attacking Jim Moran). That's a plus for Jim's mission all on it's own.

And by the way, LSM owns copyright on all of Jim's intellectual property. And I'm pretty sure that even going back to archived Moran web pages is a violation of their copyright. And the fact that I got WIPOed is proof LSM is very serious at enforcing it.

Jim Moran obviously hit a nerve. So if you can get to the archived copies now, best do it ASAP, and download the pages pronto. LSM will force them to be taken down even from the archives ... that are breaking International Copyright Laws by having them available.

In fact, now that diakonos has put it out here, expect them to pounce soon. They're tracking this kind of activity on the Web.
__________________
Cults: My brain will always be there for you. Thinking. So you don't have to.
awareness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2019, 03:32 AM   #13
ZNPaaneah
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 7,124
Default What is the law concerning owning intellectual property

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
Despite Moran's failings and shortcomings he was a pioneer of sorts. He went on the internet and exposed the cultish aspects of the LC. And LSM & Kangas hated it with a vengeance (and even had David Kangas start "jimmoranexposed.org" (or some such), attacking Jim Moran). That's a plus for Jim's mission all on it's own.

And by the way, LSM owns copyright on all of Jim's intellectual property. And I'm pretty sure that even going back to archived Moran web pages is a violation of their copyright. And the fact that I got WIPOed is proof LSM is very serious at enforcing it.

Jim Moran obviously hit a nerve. So if you can get to the archived copies now, best do it ASAP, and download the pages pronto. LSM will force them to be taken down even from the archives ... that are breaking International Copyright Laws by having them available.

In fact, now that diakonos has put it out here, expect them to pounce soon. They're tracking this kind of activity on the Web.
If that is all true then surely this website has done a much more comprehensive and precise job of exposing the shortcomings, errors and cultish behavior of the LC and LSM. So then, what is the law? How outrageous if there is some kind of law that would allow LSM to get the copyright to everything we have posted and then we were no longer able to speak publicly on this.
__________________
They shall live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God
ZNPaaneah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2019, 04:41 AM   #14
Ohio
Member
 
Ohio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Greater Ohio
Posts: 12,379
Default Re: What is the law concerning owning intellectual property

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
If that is all true then surely this website has done a much more comprehensive and precise job of exposing the shortcomings, errors and cultish behavior of the LC and LSM. So then, what is the law? How outrageous if there is some kind of law that would allow LSM to get the copyright to everything we have posted and then we were no longer able to speak publicly on this.
LSM bought all of Moran's property from his heir, so they own it, and can decide to publish or destroy it.
__________________
Ohio's motto is: With God all things are possible!.
Keeping all my posts short, quick, living, and to the point!
Ohio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2019, 07:11 AM   #15
aron
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Natal Transvaal
Posts: 5,169
Default Re: What is the law concerning owning intellectual property

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
LSM bought all of Moran's property from his heir, so they own it, and can decide to publish or destroy it.
That was the good ole' days for the LSM. They had the only printing press in town, and could publish what they wanted and destroy the rest. The very contents of reality itself were what they said it was, no more or less. Shades of "1984".

One brother on this forum wrote an interesting article on their "sanitizing" Lee, and taking out the unpleasant parts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nigel Tomes View Post
For over a decade LSM has promoted Witness Lee’s Life-study via radio broadcasts. W. Lee was an out-spoken critic of Christianity. The Roman Catholic Church, Protestant denominations and free groups were all severely condemned. However, his denunciations were systematically censored from LSM’s radio programs. Thus radio listeners hear only a sanitized version of W. Lee, not his comprehensive ministry. Basic Christian integrity requires the full disclosure of all aspects of his ministry—both the innocuous and the potentially offensive should be presented. Evidently LSM has adopted a “Bait and Switch” strategy—broadcasting a laundered version of W. Lee’s ministry to the wider Christian public in order to gain new recruits, while reserving the “real Witness Lee” for “insiders” within the Local Church movement.
LSM is so good at censoring discussion, they even censor Witness Lee. There is one ministry for the general public, and one for those who have seen the vision of the age.
__________________
"Freedom is free. It's slavery that's so horribly expensive" - Colonel Templeton, ret., of the 12th Scottish Highlanders, the 'Black Fusiliers'
aron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2019, 09:20 AM   #16
awareness
Member
 
awareness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 7,588
Default Re: What is the law concerning owning intellectual property

Quote:
Originally Posted by aron View Post
That was the good ole' days for the LSM. They had the only printing press in town, and could publish what they wanted and destroy the rest. The very contents of reality itself were what they said it was, no more or less. Shades of "1984".

One brother on this forum wrote an interesting article on their "sanitizing" Lee, and taking out the unpleasant parts.
LSM is so good at censoring discussion, they even censor Witness Lee. There is one ministry for the general public, and one for those who have seen the vision of the age.
Duplicity is not the mark of true Jesus following Christianity. So what are they recovering?
__________________
Cults: My brain will always be there for you. Thinking. So you don't have to.
awareness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2019, 02:18 PM   #17
ZNPaaneah
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 7,124
Default Re: What is the law concerning owning intellectual property

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
LSM bought all of Moran's property from his heir, so they own it, and can decide to publish or destroy it.
Doesn't answer my question. Who owns the material on this forum?
__________________
They shall live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God
ZNPaaneah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2019, 07:26 PM   #18
awareness
Member
 
awareness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 7,588
Default Re: What is the law concerning owning intellectual property

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
Doesn't answer my question. Who owns the material on this forum?
We each own our material out here, as I understand it. However, we put it on the public square.

But, if you bro ZNP write a long post the solved the problem of the TOE-Theory of Everything, you could bring legal action against anyone that published it as their own creation.

Even then, as in all copyrighted material, there's always the fair use clause.

I use to have my Kindle online. I don't anymore. Turns out when I buy a book from Amazon, for my Kindle, I don't own the books. Amazon does, and can take them at their leisure. So I worked out a work around, so that I own them.

But that's not my point, or example. Back when Dr. Lily Hsu came out with her bombshell book about the sordid private life of Watchman Nee, and when I had my Kindle online, I cut and pasted so much from her book that Amazon popped up a notice that I had exceeded my fair use limit, and wouldn't let me copy any more of her book. So I had to resort to my copy of her book, that I own, and Amazon can't access.
__________________
Cults: My brain will always be there for you. Thinking. So you don't have to.
awareness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2019, 03:27 AM   #19
ZNPaaneah
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 7,124
Default Re: What is the law concerning owning intellectual property

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
We each own our material out here, as I understand it. However, we put it on the public square.

But, if you bro ZNP write a long post the solved the problem of the TOE-Theory of Everything, you could bring legal action against anyone that published it as their own creation.

Even then, as in all copyrighted material, there's always the fair use clause.

I use to have my Kindle online. I don't anymore. Turns out when I buy a book from Amazon, for my Kindle, I don't own the books. Amazon does, and can take them at their leisure. So I worked out a work around, so that I own them.

But that's not my point, or example. Back when Dr. Lily Hsu came out with her bombshell book about the sordid private life of Watchman Nee, and when I had my Kindle online, I cut and pasted so much from her book that Amazon popped up a notice that I had exceeded my fair use limit, and wouldn't let me copy any more of her book. So I had to resort to my copy of her book, that I own, and Amazon can't access.
Thank you. This can explain why there are no lawsuits from LSM, it would be pointless, can't get the copyright, can't shut down what we have said, all they would do is make it higher profile.
__________________
They shall live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God
ZNPaaneah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2019, 07:29 AM   #20
awareness
Member
 
awareness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 7,588
Default Re: What is the law concerning owning intellectual property

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
Thank you. This can explain why there are no lawsuits from LSM, it would be pointless, can't get the copyright, can't shut down what we have said, all they would do is make it higher profile.
Still ... I think our dear brother Untohim has his neck sticking way way out ... and considering LSM's penchant for using the courts, maybe way tooooooo far.

And they hate being called a cult !!! so my neck is on the line too !!! for calling Witness Lee's local church a cult over and over and over again ad nauseam !!!
__________________
Cults: My brain will always be there for you. Thinking. So you don't have to.
awareness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2019, 10:19 AM   #21
ZNPaaneah
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 7,124
Default Re: What is the law concerning owning intellectual property

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
Still ... I think our dear brother Untohim has his neck sticking way way out ... and considering LSM's penchant for using the courts, maybe way tooooooo far.

And they hate being called a cult !!! so my neck is on the line too !!! for calling Witness Lee's local church a cult over and over and over again ad nauseam !!!
Not me! I have pointed out ad nauseum that the word is not Biblical. I have stuck to the term "false prophet" and "false teacher".

Still no one is selling or making money from this, we have the right to our opinion, and as long as the names we name are in the context of verifiable experiences it would be very difficult to get a judge to hear the case.

If you could sue people who say things you disagree with on the internet then Trump would have already started thousands of lawsuits.
__________________
They shall live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God
ZNPaaneah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2019, 11:47 AM   #22
awareness
Member
 
awareness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 7,588
Default Re: What is the law concerning owning intellectual property

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
Not me! I have pointed out ad nauseum that the word is not Biblical. I have stuck to the term "false prophet" and "false teacher".

Still no one is selling or making money from this, we have the right to our opinion, and as long as the names we name are in the context of verifiable experiences it would be very difficult to get a judge to hear the case.

If you could sue people who say things you disagree with on the internet then Trump would have already started thousands of lawsuits.
Point taken. Still LSM and Kangas must hate this site as much as they hated Jim Moran's site. They sued him for the domain name -- Local Church -- and lost.
__________________
Cults: My brain will always be there for you. Thinking. So you don't have to.
awareness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2019, 03:44 PM   #23
Ohio
Member
 
Ohio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Greater Ohio
Posts: 12,379
Default Re: What is the law concerning owning intellectual property

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
Not me! I have pointed out ad nauseum that the word is not Biblical. I have stuck to the term "false prophet" and "false teacher".

Still no one is selling or making money from this, we have the right to our opinion, and as long as the names we name are in the context of verifiable experiences it would be very difficult to get a judge to hear the case.

If you could sue people who say things you disagree with on the internet then Trump would have already started thousands of lawsuits.
But they did go way too far with Nick Sandmann.

Anyways, step two was filed the other day when the Washington Post's legal team has asked for the dismissal of the $250 million lawsuit filed against them by Covington Catholic student Nick Sandmann.
__________________
Ohio's motto is: With God all things are possible!.
Keeping all my posts short, quick, living, and to the point!
Ohio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2019, 08:12 PM   #24
awareness
Member
 
awareness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 7,588
Default Re: What is the law concerning owning intellectual property

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
of the $250 million lawsuit filed against them by Covington Catholic student Nick Sandmann.
That has been blown completely out of proportion, by parties on both sides. It smells of Trump's way of doing things, against opponents. Ya can't be anti-MAGA hats, without it costin' ya ... "10 times" the initial perceived attacker -- Trump's stated on video method -- and braggadocios - Art of the Deal (breaker) - modus operandi.

That's the way I see it, from many sources across the political spectrum ... which I agree is limited ... no one is able to keep up, even with staffs in the hundreds. There's an overload of news around the world, local, city, county, or township, plus national and world news. Just an overload.

Our unavoidable limitations, agitating with lack of but a percentage of available information 'out there,' should give us pause to any inclination to throw all in on any position.

But the human primate has shown, past and present, to be very cultic-minded and inclined ... and many don't stop to listen to their pauses.

Like Kangas, going after Jim Moran, taking it to the World Intellectual Property Organization, suing for the intellectual property rights of "Local Church." Kangas and LSM thought they own it, as a . They were shot down, by the International Property Rights Court.

They wanted to brand the name "Local Church," and make it their brand only.
__________________
Cults: My brain will always be there for you. Thinking. So you don't have to.
awareness is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:14 PM.


3.8.9