How Much To Throw Out?

[HERn]

Originally Posted by Ohio

A good way to start is what I encourage all new believers to do: Read the Gospels and talk to Jesus. Then talk to others about Him.

I did just this by reading a totally new (to me) version (The Unvarnished NT) of the NT gospels and praying as I read. Still doing it now with a different version (The Simple English Bible). I'm not recommending these versions for doctrine, but they made reading the gospels very new and fresh for me.

All the best to my brothers and sisters trying to make an exit from the LCs.

[HERn]

RHETORICAL QUESTION FOR ABSOLUTE SAINTS WHOSE SPOUSES AREN'T

Are you absolute for "the ministry"? You know, the teaching of WL as packaged and promulgated by the being-blinded-brothers.

Let me ask you absolute saints: Are you married to "the ministry" or your spouse? For example, if you are a wife and your husband says that the family will no longer participate in the LSM local churches, but will seek fellowship with a Christ-honoring group not associated with LSM would you follow your husband or would you follow the teaching of the being-blinded-brothers and stay faithful to "the ministry"? If you choose "the ministry" over your husband, then I'm afraid you are really married to the-being-blinded brothers' "the ministry". I ask this because I think I have observed over 20 something years that the emphasis from the LC leadership is that spouses should choose "the ministry" over their spouses. I'm not talking about forsaking Christ or our assembling with other Christians, but just changing denominations in order to leave the oppressive LSM-controlled LC denomination.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by HERn

RHETORICAL QUESTION FOR ABSOLUTE SAINTS WHOSE SPOUSES AREN'T

Are you absolute for "the ministry"? You know, the teaching of WL as packaged and promulgated by the being-blinded-brothers.

Let me ask you absolute saints: Are you married to "the ministry" or your spouse? For example, if you are a wife and your husband says that the family will no longer participate in the LSM local churches, but will seek fellowship with a Christ-honoring group not associated with LSM would you follow your husband or would you follow the teaching of the being-blinded-brothers and stay faithful to "the ministry"? If you choose "the ministry" over your husband, then I'm afraid you are really married to the-being-blinded brothers "the ministry".

It was almost a badge of honor to be divorced on behalf of "Christ and the church."

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by HERn

I did just this by reading a totally new (to me) version (The Unvarnished NT) of the NT gospels and praying as I read. Still doing it now with a different version (The Simple English Bible).

I donated some household things, and they gave me a paperback New Testament -- the World English Bible -- I really like it.

Wikipedia says this about it: The World English Bible is a free updated revision of the American Standard Version. It is one of the few public domain, modern-English translations of the entire Bible, and it is freely distributed to the public using electronic formats.

That's the kind of attitude that should be behind every translation of the Bible, including the Recovery Version.

[HERn]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I donated some household things, and they gave me a paperback New Testament -- the World English Bible -- I really like it.

Wikipedia says this about it: The World English Bible is a free updated revision of the American Standard Version. It is one of the few public domain, modern-English translations of the entire Bible, and it is freely distributed to the public using electronic formats.

That's the kind of attitude that should be behind every translation of the Bible, including the Recovery Version.

Thanks! I'll check it out.

[HERn]

Quote from Matt Perman

"If there is one passage which most clearly brings all of this together, it is Matthew 28:19: “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.” First, notice that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinguished as distinct Persons. We baptize into the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Second, notice that each Person must be deity because they are all placed on the same level. In fact, would Jesus have us baptize in the name of a mere creature? Surely not. Therefore each of the Persons into whose name we are to be baptized must be deity. Third, notice that although the three divine Persons are distinct, we are baptized into their name (singular), not names (plural). The three Persons are distinct, yet only constitute one name. This can only be if they share one essence."

WL and now the false teachers known as the being-blended-brothers (or co-workers), elders within the LCs, and serving ones on the campuses teach regarding the divine life that "the Father is the source of this divine life, the Son is the course of this divine life, and Spirit is the flow of this divine life". This is an insidious and, I believe, a Satan-inspired doctrinal error that has deceived thousands of seeking Christians (including myself) associated with the LC movement.

By making this statement these teachers falsely state that the Father is the source or origin of the divine life, the Son is the course or the path through which we receive the divine life, and the Spirit is the flow or the divine life itself that reaches man. I believe Satan has used WL to exalt the essence of God (His divine life) over the distinct Persons of God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). WL effectively separated the essence of God from the persons of God. To me the practical application of this false teaching is that it caused me to focus my worship and attention on the essence of God (divine life) rather than the Persons of God who eternally and individually exist as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I don't think Satan objects to the worship of the essence or divine life of God, but he greatly opposes the worship of the Persons of God. After all, Satan tried to exalt his person to reach even to the "Most High" (a person) and was thrown out. On earth Satan opposed and sought to kill the Son of God (a person) not the divine life of God (God's essence). And now among the the LCs there's a tendency to focus on "life", "the feeling of the body" and other subjective things at the expense of worshiping the Persons of God. Maybe someone can explain how the table meetings (where the Father and Son are worshiped) of the LCs exist along with the false teaching that often occurs in the prophesying meetings and conferences? If this is too harsh or in error I'm open to correction and will modify my statement.

Here is the link to the website that got me thinking along these lines.

http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/...of-the-trinity

[aron]

Originally Posted by HERn

WL and now the false teachers known as the being-blended-brothers (or co-workers), elders within the LCs, and serving ones on the campuses .... falsely state that the Father is the source or origin of the divine life, the Son is the course or the path through which we receive the divine life, and the Spirit is the flow or the divine life itself that reaches man. I believe Satan has used WL to exalt the essence of God (His divine life) over the distinct Persons of God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). WL effectively separated the essence of God from the persons of God. To me the practical application of this false teaching is that it caused me to focus my worship and attention on the essence of God (divine life) rather than the Persons of God who eternally and individually exist as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.]

One passage that helped expose WL's failed attempt to merge the distinct persons of the Trinity was the throne scene in Revelation 1. There are greetings given. And these greetings are from different persons. Greetings from "A", and from "B" and from "C". How was anyone supposed to read that A = B = C?

We all know the verses:

John, To the seven churches in the province of Asia: Grace and peace to you from Him who is and was and is to come, and from the sevenfold Spirit before His throne, and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.

There are three instances of "from" here. Grace and peace to you from "A" and from "B" and from "C". What doctrine erases this clear distinction? 1 Cor 15:45(b) "The last Adam became a life-giving Spirit" and John 1:14 "The Word became flesh"? To me, in attempting this, you end up with a silly Bible. You get your secret decoder ring from verses thus-and-such, then you take your secret decoder ring and tell all and sundry that the rest of the Bible is saying something it is plainly not. Hot becomes cold and up becomes down and three persons become one person. Because the decoder ring says so.

So Jesus is the one sitting on the throne, and is also the one walking in front of the throne in the midst of the golden lampstands, and is also the seven flames burning on the lampstands. Right? And since the church is the Body of Christ, then the seven churches in Asia are also Jesus. And since the angels are ministering spirits, and since Jesus became a life-giving Spirit, and Ephesians clearly tell us there is only one Spirit, then the seven angels to the seven Asian churches are also Jesus. Should I stop now, or do we want to keep going? What level of absurdity does it take to make us pause?

How about, the Spirit is speaking to the churches, so Jesus (the Spirit) is speaking to Jesus (the Body of Christ), and furthermore since the speaking is the Word (and is spirit and life, John 6:63), the speaking is also Jesus the Word of God made flesh. Therefore Jesus is delivering Jesus to Jesus. Gee, no wonder it says, "Let him who has ears to hear what the Spirit is speaking to the churches." Without WL's decoder ring, how could we ever properly understand this? Finally someone came along and cut straight the word for us!

(p.s. Google "Witness Lee proper" sometime. You'll learn there is a proper church life, a proper consecration, a proper aggressiveness, a proper spiritual life, and a proper expression of the Body of Christ. And that's just from the first seven hits.)

[OBW]

You know that old LP with a bad scratch on it that made it repeat that one little part over and over until you nudged the needle?

That's me.

How much to throw out?

Generally, if it is peculiar to teachings and practices of the LCM and you haven't found it somewhere else, it might should just go.

[HERn]

Originally Posted by OBW

You know that old LP with a bad scratch on it that made it repeat that one little part over and over until you nudged the needle?

That's me.

How much to throw out?

Generally, if it is peculiar to teachings and practices of the LCM and you haven't found it somewhere else, it might should just go.

Right. If there's anything healthy or good in the LCs or the LSM teaching it did not originate there, and anything unique to the LCs or LSM should be avoided.