A Healthy Revelation and LSM's Rebellion

Indiana · 05-02-2011, 01:20 PM

Receiving a healthy revelation of Christ and the church includes not only seeing the wonderful aspects of Christ’s Person and His monumental accomplishments; it also involves receiving all believers according to Christ’s own receiving of them for a practical expression of the church, which is his Body.

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A Healthy Revelation and LSM’s Rebellion

Receiving a healthy revelation of Christ and the church includes not only seeing the wonderful aspects of Christ’s Person and His monumental accomplishments; it also involves receiving all believers according to Christ’s own receiving of them for a practical expression of the church, which is His Body.

The Proper Receiving of the Saints

“It is only by being so liberal and general that we can receive all the saints in a proper way. If we are otherwise, we cannot avoid being sectarian in the matter of receiving. If we are special in anything and insist upon that, we will probably not receive those who differ from us in certain matters. But the Apostle said, ”Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.” What he meant when he referred to “him that is weak in the faith” is illustrated in the following verses: i. e., the matter of eating and keeping of days. By this we are affirmatively told that we must receive the saints who differ from us in these things. Any saint who holds a different opinion or concept regarding the things we are in favor, we must receive, “for God hath received him.” As long as he is a saint, as long as He has received him, we have no right to reject him. Our receiving must be the same as God’s receiving, no less and no more. God’s receiving is the basis of our receiving. Our receiving must not be according to our taste, our opinion, or our assertion. It must be in accordance with God’s receiving. It must be based upon God’s receiving – nothing else.

God receives people according to His Son. As long as a person receives His Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, as His personal Savior, regardless of the concepts he holds regarding all other things, God receives him immediately. Since God receives people in this way, we too must receive people in the same way. Our receiving must be in accordance with God’s receiving. If our receiving differs from His, it means that we are wrong: either we are more narrow or more broad than God. This will cause much trouble and damage to the church life.

God’s receiving is based upon Christ’s receiving, and Christ’s receiving is in accordance with our faith in Him. Whoever believes in Him, He will receive. Whoever receives Him, He will never reject. He said, “Him that cometh to Me I will in no wise cast out” (John 6:37). Since coming to Him, believing in Him, receiving Him, is the only condition for Christ’s receiving, so we must receive people upon the same basis with nothing added. As long as anyone believes in Christ our Lord, as long as he receives Him as his personal Savior, we must receive Him with nothing else required. Regardless of how he may dissent in so many other things, as long as he is a real believer in the Lord, we have no choice but to receive him. For the Lord has received him. This is why the Apostle said, “Wherefore receive ye one another, as Christ also received us to the glory of God.” We must receive whoever Christ has received. We must
have such a proper receiving of all the saints that we may keep the proper unity; otherwise, we can never keep ourselves from being sectarian and causing much confusion and damage to the church life. To practice the church life by keeping the proper unity, such a general receiving is necessary. May the Lord have mercy upon us!”
(W. Lee, Practical Expression of the Church, pp 66-77, 1968)

Thirty years later – Final Word of Witness Lee
“This is a lesson for us all. The co-workers in different places need to learn; all responsible brothers in all localities need to learn. The eyes of the brothers and sisters all need to be opened. We have acted wrongly in the past, including me, I have to admit. I have had very painful repentance before the Lord. I am very sorry! I am sorry for the Body of Christ - not only for the brothers and sisters among us, but also for the ones in the denominations. You have to bring this message back and read it over and over again in mutual fellowship. Then you will see we were wrong before… To understand and analyze this needs a fair bit of effort. Again I say a few of you must come together through pray-reading, studying, reciting, and prophesying. We must learn from our past mistakes to receive people according to God's Son, not deviating a bit from the path…”
(Chinese New Year Conference, Anaheim, Feb 1997)

The Rebellion of LSM

Since the local churches, who once enjoyed a church life on a scriptural ground of unity, rebelled against God and the healthy revelation they received of Christ and the church, they need “a fair bit of effort to understand and to analyze” their deviation from the scriptural ground they once held to the sectarian ground they now treasure and hold. LSM leadership for over 35 years has led the churches into their present state.

“Since coming to Him, believing in Him, and receiving Him, is the only condition for Christ’s receiving, so we must receive people on the same basis with nothing added.” Since 1974, something has been added, and the ground for meeting as the church became narrower, excluding others. Honest analysis of the rebellion of LSM among the churches brings understanding and truthful reporting to the church.

www.lordsrecovery.us/HistoryofHiding.pdf
www.twoturmoils.com/TwentyFiveYearsintheNewWay.pdf

In the Old Testament, Moses angrily spoke to the children of Israel, saying, “Listen now ye rebels” and wrongly struck the rock twice in not keeping God’s word. In doing so, he failed to sanctify God and represent Him, as it was not God’s anger but that of Moses expressed at the waters of Meribah. A similar mistake in grander proportions has been made by Local Church leadership since 1989. In a footnote by Witness Lee to Numbers 20:10, he pointed out, interestingly, that “here Moses condemned God’s people, but Moses was the one who rebelled against God.” (See footnotes Numbers v.10, 12).

And we have a record of LSM’s rebellion to New Testament revelation of receiving people in the church, and of their creating of a new sect for themselves comprised of “ministry churches”, against scripture, and that cause division, not unity, in the Body.

www.twoturmoils.com/OneAccordwithaManandaMinisty.pdf
www.twoturmoils.com/SteveLinks.pdf

Steve. Isitt
May 2, 2011

Indiana · 05-07-2011, 08:59 PM

www.twoturmoils.com/IntheWakeoftheNewWay.pdf

My first writing addressed LSM's rebellion against a scriptural ground of unity. My writings that followed did the same, including my last one in the previous post.

Indiana · 05-08-2011, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indiana

www.twoturmoils.com/IntheWakeoftheNewWay.pdf

My first writing in 2001 addressed LSM's rebellion against a scriptural ground of unity in the church. Many of my writings that followed did the same, including my posts on this thread.

(In the Wake of the New Way)

Here is a paradox: Oneness with the ministry was gained at the price of division in the church. For some to “sail on” in one accord was to provide the fertile bed of discord among the rest -- the believers, the members of the Body of Christ meeting as the church in their locality.

.................................................. The Tiananmen Square Principle......................................

Maybe an illustration is needed to aptly describe what the experience of many was who suffered in the new way.

It is interesting that the upheaval in Anaheim and the trouble in other churches that the new way helped spawn, took place concurrently with the Tiananmen Square incident in 1989. In principle, the disconcerted saints in the recovery were handled much in the same way as those dissenters to the communist government in China. The primary concern of the leaders and the army was not for the persons in their way. The concern was for their “ism”:

"If you expect to have one accord in any kind of society, group, or movement, you need the same kind of thinking that comes out of the same kind of knowledge. The So******t party stresses so****ism. Any political party has its own “ism”. They stress their “ism” in order to have a party, to have what we call the one accord. Without the one accord, no party could accomplish anything. Any society, group, or movement needs this one accord that comes out of the same kind of thought, the same kind of knowledge” (One Accord For The Lord’s Move, W. L., pp. 97, 99-100).

We have to be honest brothers and sisters. The new way took a toll. It was intrusive to our fellow members in the Body. Regardless of the condition of the recovery that brought about the need for change, we should not have lost people. If the call was indeed just to gain an army to fight for the ministry, why wasn't this more clearly defined and separated from the church? Brother Lee said that Paul never controlled the churches or insisted that the saints follow his ministry; nevertheless, he added that, "there still is a need for leadership". Hence, he took the lead as he did. To say our brother wasn't controlling the churches, however, is hard to comprehend. Gaining a fighting unit for the ministry took place in the church! It was inseparable from the church. To be sure, there was no respect or regard for those not in one accord for this, but in word only.

(I recently talked to a sister who left the church in 1989 after a leading one proclaimed in a meeting that the saints who were not in the church for brother Lee and his ministry didn’t need to be there. This word of absoluteness with the ministry and the resulting effect of losing a sister and the spiritual harmony at home for that family is an example of the spirit of power, not love that prevailed during the new way. Her husband has continued in the church, and one of their sons might leave for Russia soon, having recently completed the full-time-training.)

We lost many who at one time were happy to meet with us and their stories are often tragic. Married couples have suffered much, for example, with easily over a hundred divorces taking place in the churches since the new way began! I know of six separations or divorces happening currently in four different localities, and this kind of shameful occurrence among us has been taking place frequently for sixteen years. The new way for these members means a new way of life without their mate or their children and, very possibly, without the church. Many other couples that have left the church are still together, but with very unpleasant and painful memories of the church life since 1984.

Most of these brothers and sisters were dispirited and disheartened by the changes in the church life and felt forced out of participation. Some experienced getting "knocked down", such as leading ones standing up before “officers” of the army to fellowship their concerns. These brothers may not have been ambitious or conspiring as some brothers were alleged to be; rather, they were ones trying to stop the carnage that they were experiencing in their locality and hearing of in different places. Some brothers were afraid to stand or sensed the futility of doing so. One prominent brother, close to brother Lee, approached him sixteen times, usually with others, to express his and others' concern for what was happening in so many churches to so many saints. Their efforts were to no avail as brother Lee's prophecy was coming to pass that he was "willing to sacrifice people and places". Their concerns were founded and legitimate, and attempts to address those concerns ended in their frustration and sad departure from the church.

Where was the principle of the Body in the new way, the keeping of the real one accord that is in the inclusive nature of Christ? Where was the same care for every member that there be no division in the Body that Paul speaks of in 1 Corinthians? It was not there in the new way. The oneness in the Lord’s new move was not a oneness of the Body. Rather, it dishonored the oneness that includes every member.

Indiana · 05-11-2011, 09:31 AM

Receiving a healthy revelation of Christ and the church includes not only seeing the wonderful aspects of Christ’s Person and His monumental accomplishments; it also involves receiving all believers according to Christ’s own receiving of them for a practical expression of the church, which is His Body.

(In the Wake of the New Way)

"The Real Cause of Division

Brother Lee had warned the saints about division requesting that they "not criticize or oppose the army, since this would cause trouble and then division”. He said, like Gideon he would gain an army, pointing out that “those who followed Gideon to fight against the Philistines defeated them and rescued the entire nation of Israel". In other words, the "citizens" were to respect what the army was doing in the church and not cause a problem. This went on for months and then for years with the focus being on the army and the new way.

During this time, priceless saints who did not fit the configuration of new way practice and procedures were leaving continually from the "ground of oneness". They may have ended up eventually meeting with other Christians who were glad to accept them or they may have gone to the world, some plunging into a sinful and dissipated life. What a loss to the church in favor of seeking new ones who might configure well in the new church life!

In brother Lee's warning about causing division, the onus was placed on those dissenters to the new way. I have a serious question to ask. Who or what caused the damage and division during the Lord's new move?

Those who were standing on the ground of oneness as proper "citizens" in the church or the fighting army?

Saints, we should know assuredly that oneness with brother Lee and his ministry is not automatically oneness with the Body. These are two different matters. As significant and noble as it is to pursue oneness with brother Lee and his ministry, if this pursuit isn't balanced with a practical and genuine care for all the members, a wide gulf is created between the saints. This is division! "In the Body life the same care should be given to all the different members. A difference in care causes division" (1 Cor. 12:25 footnote, RV).

In the new way we were not eager to keep the oneness of the Spirit in the uniting bond of peace with every member (Eph. 4:3)."

This was due to LSM's rebellion to God's word in the New Testament and going about to establish their own exclusive brand of "oneness" in a sectarian utopia formed in willful negligence to God's word and the apostle Paul's example of keeping the unity among the saints in the churches.

TLFisher · 05-11-2011, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indiana

Saints, we should know assuredly that oneness with brother Lee and his ministry is not automatically oneness with the Body. These are two different matters. As significant and noble as it is to pursue oneness with brother Lee and his ministry, if this pursuit isn't balanced with a practical and genuine care for all the members, a wide gulf is created between the saints. This is division! "In the Body life the same care should be given to all the different members. A difference in care causes division" (1 Cor. 12:25 footnote, RV).

Well! If oneness with WItness Lee and his ministry is not automatic oneness with the Body, why was fellowship with churches cut off onces these churches ended affiliations with Living Stream?
In doing so a statement is being made. In order for local churches to have fellowship with one another, receiving Living Stream Ministry as their one publication is not optional.

Indiana · 05-11-2011, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terry

Well! If oneness with WItness Lee and his ministry is not automatic oneness with the Body, why was fellowship with churches cut off onces these churches ended affiliations with Living Stream?
In doing so a statement is being made. In order for local churches to have fellowship with one another, receiving Living Stream Ministry as their one publication is not optional.

Very good point, Terry, in quote above.

- My 2008 post -
"Eight Decades Ago when Watchman Nee was a young, serious seeker of the
Lord and Bible truth he examined the Christian landscape of various
denominations with their Bible teachings, doctrines, and practices and
sought the Lord concerning the confusing situation. From his diligent study
of the Word he received revelation of many truths found in the Bible. One
was concerning how to receive other believers in fellowship......"

http://twoturmoils.com/NeeLeeEightDecades.pdf

Indiana · 05-12-2011, 07:26 PM

Witness Lee 1968: “It is only by being so liberal and general that we can receive all the saints in a proper way. If we are otherwise, we cannot avoid being sectarian in the matter of receiving. If we are special in anything and insist upon that, we will probably not receive those who differ from us in certain matters. But the Apostle said, ”Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.” What he meant when he referred to “him that is weak in the faith” is illustrated in the following verses: i. e., the matter of eating and keeping of days. By this we are affirmatively told that we must receive the saints who differ from us in these things. Any saint who holds a different opinion or concept regarding the things we are in favor, we must receive, “for God hath received him.” As long as he is a saint, as long as He has received him, we have no right to reject him. Our receiving must be the same as God’s receiving, no less and no more. God’s receiving is the basis of our receiving. Our receiving must not be according to our taste, our opinion, or our assertion. It must be in accordance with God’s receiving. It must be based upon God’s receiving – nothing else.

God receives people according to His Son. As long as a person receives His Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, as His personal Savior, regardless of the concepts he holds regarding all other things, God receives him immediately. Since God receives people in this way, we too must receive people in the same way. Our receiving must be in accordance with God’s receiving. If our receiving differs from His, it means that we are wrong: either we are more narrow or more broad than God. This will cause much trouble and damage to the church life.

God’s receiving is based upon Christ’s receiving, and Christ’s receiving is in accordance with our faith in Him. Whoever believes in Him, He will receive. Whoever receives Him, He will never reject. He said, “Him that cometh to Me I will in no wise cast out” (John 6:37). Since coming to Him, believing in Him, receiving Him, is the only condition for Christ’s receiving, so we must receive people upon the same basis with nothing added. As long as anyone believes in Christ our Lord, as long as he receives Him as his personal Savior, we must receive Him with nothing else required. Regardless of how he may dissent in so many other things, as long as he is a real believer in the Lord, we have no choice but to receive him. For the Lord has received him. This is why the Apostle said, “Wherefore receive ye one another, as Christ also received us to the glory of God.” We must receive whoever Christ has received. We must
have such a proper receiving of all the saints that we may keep the proper unity; otherwise, we can never keep ourselves from being sectarian and causing much confusion and damage to the church life. To practice the church life by keeping the proper unity, such a general receiving is necessary. May the Lord have mercy upon us!”
(W. Lee, Practical Expression of the Church, pp 66-77, 1968)
.................................................. .....................................

(In the Wake of the New Way - 2001)

Brother shared in 1986, "When Gideon was called to take the army to fight the battle for Jehovah, the Lord told him that he had too many. Eventually, the Lord chose three hundred men and told Gideon to send the others home. This does not mean that whoever went back home was no longer an Israelite. He was still an Israelite, but he had nothing to do with the fighting army". He gave the analogy that "to be a citizen of the United States is one thing, but to fight in the United States army is another matter".

Gideon only needed three hundred men and the rest could go home. This was the spirit of the Lord's new move. Many actually did go home and did not return.

There was to be "no uncertain sounding of the trumpet" for the army to follow with brother Lee as its unique leader. He had the burden to train this army to get into the deeper truths of God's New Testament economy and propagate them throughout the earth. While addressing the elders during an elders training, he said, "You may say that you follow Brother Lee, that you are one with this ministry. That sounds very good, but I am a little concerned that you may not know what it means to be one with this ministry. You may want to take me as your commander-in-chief and follow me, but I do not want to have many followers who know nothing about God's New Testament economy. We are not doing anything but carrying out God's New Testament economy." Speaking in this way, he showed that he meant business for the saints to rise up to become constituted with the word of God's economy for "the Lord's move on the earth".

This manner of fellowship caused quite a stir in the churches, and most of the saints in the churches initially wanted to give their full cooperation for this turn. But not every brother and sister and not every church felt this way. Gradually, more members grew cold, though most churches were endeavoring to go on in the new way. Brother Lee did anticipate problems, saying, "I am prepared to meet a situation in which some in the Lord's recovery will not go this way. This will not surprise me. You and I should not consider these ones as strangers and should not cut them off from the recovery. We should still love them, respect them, and not despise them a bit. Do not consider them as another kind of people. Although they have not joined the army, they are still proper citizens."

It proved quite difficult, however, to realize the proper care and acceptance of churches or individuals who could not rise up for the new way. It was, in fact, impossible in many places and with a number of people. Many felt ostracized and out of function. Some just lost heart because they viewed the new way as a lot of activity with stress on numbers and production and less concentration on the person of Christ and our enjoyment of Him. This, along with other matters, became an expanding concern for them and for many leading ones as they saw discouragement set in among the saints in their localities.

Indiana · 05-14-2011, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indiana

Receiving a healthy revelation of Christ and the church includes not only seeing the wonderful aspects of Christ’s Person and His monumental accomplishments; it also involves receiving all believers according to Christ’s own receiving of them for a practical expression of the church, which is his Body.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

A Healthy Revelation and LSM’s Rebellion

The Proper Receiving of the Saints

“It is only by being so liberal and general that we can receive all the saints in a proper way. If we are otherwise, we cannot avoid being sectarian in the matter of receiving. If we are special in anything and insist upon that, we will probably not receive those who differ from us in certain matters. But the Apostle said, ”Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.” What he meant when he referred to “him that is weak in the faith” is illustrated in the following verses: i. e., the matter of eating and keeping of days. By this we are affirmatively told that we must receive the saints who differ from us in these things. Any saint who holds a different opinion or concept regarding the things we are in favor, we must receive, “for God hath received him.” As long as he is a saint, as long as He has received him, we have no right to reject him. Our receiving must be the same as God’s receiving, no less and no more. God’s receiving is the basis of our receiving. Our receiving must not be according to our taste, our opinion, or our assertion. It must be in accordance with God’s receiving. It must be based upon God’s receiving – nothing else.

God receives people according to His Son. As long as a person receives His Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, as His personal Savior, regardless of the concepts he holds regarding all other things, God receives him immediately. Since God receives people in this way, we too must receive people in the same way. Our receiving must be in accordance with God’s receiving. If our receiving differs from His, it means that we are wrong: either we are more narrow or more broad than God. This will cause much trouble and damage to the church life.

God’s receiving is based upon Christ’s receiving, and Christ’s receiving is in accordance with our faith in Him. Whoever believes in Him, He will receive. Whoever receives Him, He will never reject. He said, “Him that cometh to Me I will in no wise cast out” (John 6:37). Since coming to Him, believing in Him, receiving Him, is the only condition for Christ’s receiving, so we must receive people upon the same basis with nothing added. As long as anyone believes in Christ our Lord, as long as he receives Him as his personal Savior, we must receive Him with nothing else required. Regardless of how he may dissent in so many other things, as long as he is a real believer in the Lord, we have no choice but to receive him. For the Lord has received him. This is why the Apostle said, “Wherefore receive ye one another, as Christ also received us to the glory of God.” We must receive whoever Christ has received. We must have such a proper receiving of all the saints that we may keep the proper unity; otherwise, we can never keep ourselves from being sectarian and causing much confusion and damage to the church life. To practice the church life by keeping the proper unity, such a general receiving is necessary. May the Lord have mercy upon us!”

(W. Lee, Practical Expression of the Church, pp 66-77, 1968)

Thirty years later – Final Word of Witness Lee
“This is a lesson for us all. The co-workers in different places need to learn; all responsible brothers in all localities need to learn. The eyes of the brothers and sisters all need to be opened. We have acted wrongly in the past, including me, I have to admit. I have had very painful repentance before the Lord. I am very sorry! I am sorry for the Body of Christ - not only for the brothers and sisters among us, but also for the ones in the denominations. You have to bring this message back and read it over and over again in mutual fellowship. Then you will see we were wrong before… To understand and analyze this needs a fair bit of effort. Again I say a few of you must come together through pray-reading, studying, reciting, and prophesying. We must learn from our past mistakes to receive people according to God's Son, not deviating a bit from the path…”
(Chinese New Year Conference, Anaheim, Feb 1997)

The Rebellion of LSM

Since the local churches, who once enjoyed a church life on a scriptural ground of unity, rebelled against God and the healthy revelation they received of Christ and the church, they need “a fair bit of effort to understand and to analyze” their deviation from the scriptural ground they once held to the sectarian ground they now treasure and hold. LSM leadership for over 35 years has led the churches into their present state.

“Since coming to Him, believing in Him, and receiving Him, is the only condition for Christ’s receiving, so we must receive people on the same basis with nothing added.” Since 1974, something has been added, and the ground for meeting as the church became narrower, excluding others. Honest analysis of the rebellion of LSM among the churches brings understanding and truthful reporting to the church.

www.lordsrecovery.us/HistoryofHiding.pdf
www.twoturmoils.com/TwentyFiveYearsintheNewWay.pdf

In the Old Testament, Moses angrily spoke to the children of Israel, saying, “Listen now ye rebels” and wrongly struck the rock twice in not keeping God’s word. In doing so, he failed to sanctify God and represent Him, as it was not God’s anger but that of Moses expressed at the waters of Meribah. A similar mistake in grander proportions has been made by Local Church leadership since 1989. In a footnote by Witness Lee to Numbers 20:10, he pointed out, interestingly, that “here Moses condemned God’s people, but Moses was the one who rebelled against God.” (See footnotes Numbers v.10, 12).

And we have a record of LSM’s rebellion to New Testament revelation of receiving people in the church, and of their creating of a new sect for themselves comprised of “ministry churches”, against scripture, and that cause division, not unity, in the Body.

www.twoturmoils.com/OneAccordwithaManandaMinistry.pdf
www.twoturmoils.com/SteveLinks.pdf

Steve Isitt
May 2, 2011

(In the Wake of the New Way)

"The Elders' Pact for the Lord’s New Move

Brother Lee went to Taiwan in October of 1984 to raise up an army and begin to implement the changes for the Lord's new move. He got rid of everything old, including many longtime elders. He wanted a new start and a new way, which would include home gatherings, the truth lessons, the full-time workers, and the spreading of the gospel through door knocking. A major support of the Lord’s new move was to come from the instituting of a full-time training in Taipei. It was to produce trained soldiers continually to join this army. Basically, only qualified young people could take part in the training.

Two years later, in 1986, brother Lee took bold steps for producing this army by endeavoring to gain the full cooperation of elders, churches, and saints. He called the elders and co-workers together from around the world for an urgent meeting, the third such meeting in two years. It was in this third meeting that inspired elders and co-workers rose up to sign a pact, or a contract, pledging their allegiance to brother Lee and to his leadership. The following is included in the contract they signed:

Dear Brother Lee:

After hearing your fellowship in this elders training, we all agree to have a new start in the Lord's recovery. For this, we all agree to be in one accord and to carry out this new move of the Lord solely through prayer, the Spirit, and the Word. We further agree to practice the recovery one in: teaching, practice, thinking, speaking, essence, appearance, and expression. We repudiate all differences among the churches, and all indifference toward the ministry, the ministry office, and the other churches. We agree that the church in our place be identical with all the local churches throughout the earth. We also agree to follow your leading as the one who has brought us God's New Testament economy and has led us into its practice. We agree that this leading is indispensable to our oneness and acknowledge the one trumpet in the Lord's ministry and the one wise master builder among us…."

It is worth noting here that in our brothers’ declaration, there was no mention of love. The thought of love was omitted. Love was not only strangely missing in this pact, it was also regrettably lacking in the practical application of it. The reason that leaders in this army did not consider love to be an essential element of their vow is simple -- an army doesn't need love! What an army needs is esprit de corp. They had that with the Spirit and the Word. Those not in the army, however, had neither esprit de corp nor the love to maintain them in the church life. Consequently, many saints left the local churches."

What was misnomered as the Lord's new move was actually a rebellious movement by LSM to gain supremacy and control in the churches, whether or not they were aware of what they were doing; as they ignored God's word to care for every member "that there be no division"; and as they allowed the moral misconduct of Philip Lee at LSM and their sin of division to occur among the churches, covering these matters up rather than reporting them faithfully at the time or dealing with them since, as their church history annals show.

Therefore, not only does sin remain covered up at LSM, so does the division they caused in the late eighties and are still causing today.

rayliotta · 05-16-2011, 02:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indiana

"If you expect to have one accord in any kind of society, group, or movement, you need the same kind of thinking that comes out of the same kind of knowledge. The So******t party stresses so****ism. Any political party has its own “ism”. They stress their “ism” in order to have a party, to have what we call the one accord. Without the one accord, no party could accomplish anything. Any society, group, or movement needs this one accord that comes out of the same kind of thought, the same kind of knowledge” (One Accord For The Lord’s Move, W. L., pp. 97, 99-100).

Steve, I'm incredulous reading this quote. I guess nothing should surprise me anymore.

Is Witness Lee really comparing the "one accord" with having a political party? Is he really saying you have to "stress" an "ism" to "have what we call the one accord"? Is this the same man who condemned "all the 'isms'" and claimed his group was something different?

Incredible. Someone tell me I'm "misunderstanding" this.

OBW · 05-16-2011, 11:34 AM

I just have one comment on the posts in general. Each section should have a clear header or delineation between items so that the break between different source documents and Steve's comments is easily discernible. I often am suddenly unsure who is saying what.

Indiana · 05-19-2011, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rayliotta

Steve, I'm incredulous reading this quote. I guess nothing should surprise me anymore.

Is Witness Lee really comparing the "one accord" with having a political party? Is he really saying you have to "stress" an "ism" to "have what we call the one accord"? Is this the same man who condemned "all the 'isms'" and claimed his group was something different?

Incredible. Someone tell me I'm "misunderstanding" this.

In a movement an "ism" is needed.

For two years Witness Lee did not attend church meetings in Anaheim leading up to his announcement in Oct 1984 that the Lord needed a new move. Concerned for the stagnation among the churches in the U. S. and around the recovery, Lee asserted that since 1973 ambition had come in with the elders and co-workers as “the real gopher" in the recovery and that this “gopher” had been growing - he not considering that in that same period, 1974 to 1984, the "gopher" of setting up Brother Lee as a kind of “pope” had been growing. The man and a ministry movement is the “real gopher” that had been growing.

Instead of repentance for this “gopher” and for Daystar and other serious matters that would result in life and biblical one accord, “ministry stations” emerged that produced “ministry churches” to be in "one accord" with the man and ministry movement.

It was an organized movement orchestrated by one man, mindful to Chinese saints of the movement(s) in China that stressed an “ism” for their one accord; that is, "the same kind of thinking that comes out of the same kind of knowledge”, as brother Lee indicated was needed for his movement. No one can deny this was a movement. Look at the fruit. Division everywhere to this day, not caused by so-called "rebellious ones" to Witness Lee's movement, but by those in "one accord" with the man and a ministry movement in rebellion to scriptural revelation and genuine one accord.
,
www.HidingHistoryintheLordsRecovery.us/Mao.pdf

refer to Elder's Training books 7 & 8 for brother Lee's extensive word on what he felt was the "key" to the "Lord's new move".

Cal · 05-20-2011, 07:40 AM

There is nothing wrong with being a movement. The problem comes in when some movement considers itself something more than a movement.

God has used movements down through history. Each movement has something of God and something of man. It's silly to expect any movement to have no traces of human tendencies, or to dismiss a movement that God is legitimately working in as "a movement of man." Except is extreme cases, almost no movement in Church history was purely "a movement of man." The category, for most practical intents, is meaningless and useless. It's simply idealism.

This idealism that insists on everything being a pure "move of God" is unrealistic and self-deceptive. It's unrealistic because anything where people are involved is going to be imperfect. It's self-deceptive because it leads people to always be seeking the elusive "holy grail" of God's pure move. Such a thing only exists in heaven. On earth we have to work with what we have. It's also self-deceptive because it leads people to think they can define this pure move or, worse, have actually found it.

This is exactly what happened in "the Lord's Recovery." It was idealism run amok. Such a thing results in two grave errors: Feeling one needs to defend to the death the "pure move" one is "in," and the corollary, condemning all other "movements."

Stop looking for the holy grail. Work with what you have and what God has put before you.

Cal · 05-20-2011, 08:21 AM

My point is that a distinction between a "move of God" and "a movement of man" is useful only in theoretical discussions. In practice it produces a false and dangerous dichotomy. One cannot detect what is a pure move of God, and detecting the influence of man in a movement does not disqualify it. Endless nitpicking about it is a waste of time. The holy grail is a myth.

Indiana · 05-20-2011, 04:15 PM

(In the Wake of the New Way) Nov 2000

What The Recovery Needs

From the beginning of brother Lee's ministry in the United States clear to the end of it, although we heard marvelous things, we heard comparatively little about love. Near the end of his ministry, however, he did speak more concerning the need for love among us. He said, "In the last few years, we have appreciated the Lord's showing us the high peak of the divine revelation. My concern is that although we may talk about the truths of the high peak, love is absent among us. If this is the case, we are puffed up, not built up. The Body builds up itself in love".

He actually began to speak in this way starting in 1988 and, intermittently, to the end of his ministry, addressing the elders on a number of occasions more definitely about this need. He said, "according to my observance throughout the years, most of the co-workers have a human spirit of "power" but not love. We need a spirit of love to conquer the degradation of today's church…this is what the recovery needs." He also stated, "only love prevails" and that "love is the most excellent way". He said it is the way to be an elder or a co-worker, and that it is the way to handle the saints. He proclaimed that it is the way to do everything and to be anything in the church life.

It was about this time that he looked back over his church life experience and recalled that his best days were in Chefoo. He said that that was his most prosperous, fruitful time in the church due to the love and the practical shepherding of the saints. He testified that it was the shepherding that brought in the blessing. Although he had shared so much with the saints on the revelation of life in the scriptures throughout the years, he said that even the gospel of John, a gospel on life, needed the last chapter on shepherding to make it meaningful. The shepherding is needed to bring the loving seekers of God into the corporate relationship of God and man.

The Revival In Chefoo

Our brother seems to have pondered the non-encouraging results of the Lord's new move and the damage that had been done, having summed up his feeling in an elders training, testifying that the result of his labor in the United States had not been satisfactory. In fact, it had been “disappointing”. He also testified that his work in both Taipei and the Philippines never brought "satisfactory results", and that only one place had done so where he had labored -- "Chefoo, my home town." He was locked in by the war then and could not leave to minister to the churches. So, he gave his full attention to the needs in his locality.

An extremely vital practice in Chefoo was for the leading shepherding ones to meet for hours and consider all the “difficulties and deficiencies” among the saints in their locality, then find a way to meet the need. He said, "This fellowship was not superficial, but deep, getting to the bottom of things." Brothers, as well as sisters were there, and they fellowshipped, prayed, and coordinated in oneness with the Lord for the shepherding of all the saints. As a result, the morale in that place was high and the real one accord was produced that made an impact on their city. This caused a revival to break out that lasted for ten years. They were the real spiritual parents taking care of the spiritual welfare of their spiritual children.

The Church Family in Chefoo

The church in Chefoo was like a family. It was a church family with an atmosphere of a spirit of love prevailing there. The love inspired the people and motivated them. Love kept people in the church, and love brought new ones in. This church family experience was their oneness providing the Lord a base to move in their locality.

Besides being one of the shepherding ones visiting the saints in their homes regularly and when there was special need, a young brother Lee liked to have meals at the meeting hall and invite ten or twenty brothers and sisters to come and eat. During that time he would talk to them one by one. In this way he made contact with every one of the few hundred brothers and sisters. He said that by sitting down with them, chatting with them and getting acquainted with them he could get a clear impression about them and their need.

In Chefoo there was no centerpiece, no special group as a distraction from the fundamental need to care for the members equally. The ministry was in place with no special emphasis on it or allegiance to it. All the leading ones gave their attention, time, and energy to the Body. Thus, the one accord was struck. Their increase came due to the love and the one accord! They had the same care for the rickshaw boy as for the banker, the same love for the coolie and his wife as for the "promising ones." It was their family. The Lord poured out His blessing on this!

Today, we all need to be in a strong church family and deal with any atmosphere of a spiritual institution or education center. That is, we should have an atmosphere of a spirit of love prevailing, not just of spiritual seeking and of learning the deeper truths. We should notice if a brother or sister hasn't been meeting, or if they are having difficulty. Our thought is often about certain members that because they aren't meeting the church standard and expectation, maybe they're just not for the church. That wasn't the apostle Paul's thought. He said to "uphold the weak". They are our brother or sister, and they are necessary family members.

Strong church families form the essential base for the one accord. Regardless of the outward activities and move of the Lord taking place in the churches, we all belong to a church family that should be practical in caring for its members. This is where the breakdown has been. A real family takes care of its members, being accountable for each one of them. It is the secret to having morale. A thriving church family affords the Lord a way to move on the earth with joy.

A Timely Trumpeting For The Present Need

Brother Lee recognized four years into the new way that there was the need to sound another trumpet call quite different from the first. He spoke messages to that effect in 1988 that are in print in a book called, A Timely Trumpeting For The Present Need. This was a trumpet call to elders and co-workers expressing the urgent and present need to care for people. He said, "Today, there are many brothers and sisters who need help. Hence, we have to do our best to contact them, to be concerned and care for them in love, and to strive to help and shepherd them."

"I hope the elders and co-workers would take this word of fellowship and exhortation to give their all and their time to contact and shepherd people. This was our shortage in the past. Now we must recover this matter." Until his death, he would sound this trumpet again and again in 1989, 1991, 93, and 96 -- at least in these four years, in an ardent way.

Our Way Is Not Right

In speaking to the elders in 1996, he made a statement that took them aback. He said, "As I have said before, the spirit of not shepherding and seeking others and being without love and forgiveness is spreading in the recovery everywhere. I believe that not having the Father's loving and forgiving heart and not having the Savior's shepherding and seeking spirit is the reason for our barrenness. I realize that you all work hard, but there is almost no fruit. The Lord says, 'By the fruit the tree is known' (Matt. 12:33), but we are a tree without any fruit. Everywhere among us barrenness is very prevailing.”

"Many of you are good speakers, knowing the higher truths. The truths we hold are much higher than those in Christianity. However, we do not have fruit because we are lacking in the Father's loving and forgiving heart and the Son's shepherding and seeking spirit. We condemn and regulate others rather than shepherd and seek them. We are short of love and shepherding. These are the vital factors for us to bear fruit, that is, to gain people. I am very concerned for our full-time training. Do we train the young ones to gain people or to regulate people? We have to reconsider our ways, as Haggai said (1:5). Our way is not right; something is wrong."

It is wonderful to have the high and rich ministry of brother Lee. We in the churches enjoy and appreciate it immensely, and most of us would never leave it. Yet, "our way is not right; something is wrong"! This is a very sober and serious word and should be taken as such, especially by our leading ones. Something is wrong, brothers. This is the reason for my writing.

I have to ask what was wrong with the way in Chefoo? Why was an experiment needed in the recovery? Chefoo was right! They had the real one accord. Love speaks louder than words, even the words that unlock the mystery of God and of Christ.

For the saints in the recovery, this trumpet call is still going out to the churches. It is still the present need. There is the vital need not only to uphold the New Testament ministry in the proper way, but also to uphold as essential, the critical revelation and practice of receiving the believers.

To uphold the weak and those with differing views is to be according to the Lord’s heart and to answer the trumpet call. It is also to respond to the Lord’s prayer in John 17, “that they all would be one”. The Lord's move should be a move in His Body involving all the members, not forgetting any among us -- and remembering those who left.

Indiana · 05-21-2011, 09:11 AM

In contrast to the sectarian One Accord movement found in the Local Churches today, there is the Love and One Accord found in the Scriptures. What a huge difference and deviation from the healthy revelation and understanding which the local churches once had, which they effectually act in rebellion against today.

http://www.makingstraightthewayofthe...dOneAccord.pdf

05-02-2011, 01:20 PM	#1
Indiana Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 707	A Healthy Revelation and LSM's Rebellion Receiving a healthy revelation of Christ and the church includes not only seeing the wonderful aspects of Christ’s Person and His monumental accomplishments; it also involves receiving all believers according to Christ’s own receiving of them for a practical expression of the church, which is his Body. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- A Healthy Revelation and LSM’s Rebellion Receiving a healthy revelation of Christ and the church includes not only seeing the wonderful aspects of Christ’s Person and His monumental accomplishments; it also involves receiving all believers according to Christ’s own receiving of them for a practical expression of the church, which is His Body. The Proper Receiving of the Saints “It is only by being so liberal and general that we can receive all the saints in a proper way. If we are otherwise, we cannot avoid being sectarian in the matter of receiving. If we are special in anything and insist upon that, we will probably not receive those who differ from us in certain matters. But the Apostle said, ”Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.” What he meant when he referred to “him that is weak in the faith” is illustrated in the following verses: i. e., the matter of eating and keeping of days. By this we are affirmatively told that we must receive the saints who differ from us in these things. Any saint who holds a different opinion or concept regarding the things we are in favor, we must receive, “for God hath received him.” As long as he is a saint, as long as He has received him, we have no right to reject him. Our receiving must be the same as God’s receiving, no less and no more. God’s receiving is the basis of our receiving. Our receiving must not be according to our taste, our opinion, or our assertion. It must be in accordance with God’s receiving. It must be based upon God’s receiving – nothing else. God receives people according to His Son. As long as a person receives His Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, as His personal Savior, regardless of the concepts he holds regarding all other things, God receives him immediately. Since God receives people in this way, we too must receive people in the same way. Our receiving must be in accordance with God’s receiving. If our receiving differs from His, it means that we are wrong: either we are more narrow or more broad than God. This will cause much trouble and damage to the church life. God’s receiving is based upon Christ’s receiving, and Christ’s receiving is in accordance with our faith in Him. Whoever believes in Him, He will receive. Whoever receives Him, He will never reject. He said, “Him that cometh to Me I will in no wise cast out” (John 6:37). Since coming to Him, believing in Him, receiving Him, is the only condition for Christ’s receiving, so we must receive people upon the same basis with nothing added. As long as anyone believes in Christ our Lord, as long as he receives Him as his personal Savior, we must receive Him with nothing else required. Regardless of how he may dissent in so many other things, as long as he is a real believer in the Lord, we have no choice but to receive him. For the Lord has received him. This is why the Apostle said, “Wherefore receive ye one another, as Christ also received us to the glory of God.” We must receive whoever Christ has received. We must have such a proper receiving of all the saints that we may keep the proper unity; otherwise, we can never keep ourselves from being sectarian and causing much confusion and damage to the church life. To practice the church life by keeping the proper unity, such a general receiving is necessary. May the Lord have mercy upon us!” (W. Lee, Practical Expression of the Church, pp 66-77, 1968) Thirty years later – Final Word of Witness Lee “This is a lesson for us all. The co-workers in different places need to learn; all responsible brothers in all localities need to learn. The eyes of the brothers and sisters all need to be opened. We have acted wrongly in the past, including me, I have to admit. I have had very painful repentance before the Lord. I am very sorry! I am sorry for the Body of Christ - not only for the brothers and sisters among us, but also for the ones in the denominations. You have to bring this message back and read it over and over again in mutual fellowship. Then you will see we were wrong before… To understand and analyze this needs a fair bit of effort. Again I say a few of you must come together through pray-reading, studying, reciting, and prophesying. We must learn from our past mistakes to receive people according to God's Son, not deviating a bit from the path…” (Chinese New Year Conference, Anaheim, Feb 1997) The Rebellion of LSM Since the local churches, who once enjoyed a church life on a scriptural ground of unity, rebelled against God and the healthy revelation they received of Christ and the church, they need “a fair bit of effort to understand and to analyze” their deviation from the scriptural ground they once held to the sectarian ground they now treasure and hold. LSM leadership for over 35 years has led the churches into their present state. “Since coming to Him, believing in Him, and receiving Him, is the only condition for Christ’s receiving, so we must receive people on the same basis with nothing added.” Since 1974, something has been added, and the ground for meeting as the church became narrower, excluding others. Honest analysis of the rebellion of LSM among the churches brings understanding and truthful reporting to the church. www.lordsrecovery.us/HistoryofHiding.pdf www.twoturmoils.com/TwentyFiveYearsintheNewWay.pdf In the Old Testament, Moses angrily spoke to the children of Israel, saying, “Listen now ye rebels” and wrongly struck the rock twice in not keeping God’s word. In doing so, he failed to sanctify God and represent Him, as it was not God’s anger but that of Moses expressed at the waters of Meribah. A similar mistake in grander proportions has been made by Local Church leadership since 1989. In a footnote by Witness Lee to Numbers 20:10, he pointed out, interestingly, that “here Moses condemned God’s people, but Moses was the one who rebelled against God.” (See footnotes Numbers v.10, 12). And we have a record of LSM’s rebellion to New Testament revelation of receiving people in the church, and of their creating of a new sect for themselves comprised of “ministry churches”, against scripture, and that cause division, not unity, in the Body. www.twoturmoils.com/OneAccordwithaManandaMinisty.pdf www.twoturmoils.com/SteveLinks.pdf Steve. Isitt May 2, 2011

05-07-2011, 08:59 PM	#2
Indiana Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 707	Re: A Healthy Revelation and LSM's Rebellion www.twoturmoils.com/IntheWakeoftheNewWay.pdf My first writing addressed LSM's rebellion against a scriptural ground of unity. My writings that followed did the same, including my last one in the previous post.

05-11-2011, 09:31 AM	#4
Indiana Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 707	Re: A Healthy Revelation and LSM's Rebellion Receiving a healthy revelation of Christ and the church includes not only seeing the wonderful aspects of Christ’s Person and His monumental accomplishments; it also involves receiving all believers according to Christ’s own receiving of them for a practical expression of the church, which is His Body. (In the Wake of the New Way) "The Real Cause of Division Brother Lee had warned the saints about division requesting that they "not criticize or oppose the army, since this would cause trouble and then division”. He said, like Gideon he would gain an army, pointing out that “those who followed Gideon to fight against the Philistines defeated them and rescued the entire nation of Israel". In other words, the "citizens" were to respect what the army was doing in the church and not cause a problem. This went on for months and then for years with the focus being on the army and the new way. During this time, priceless saints who did not fit the configuration of new way practice and procedures were leaving continually from the "ground of oneness". They may have ended up eventually meeting with other Christians who were glad to accept them or they may have gone to the world, some plunging into a sinful and dissipated life. What a loss to the church in favor of seeking new ones who might configure well in the new church life! In brother Lee's warning about causing division, the onus was placed on those dissenters to the new way. I have a serious question to ask. Who or what caused the damage and division during the Lord's new move? Those who were standing on the ground of oneness as proper "citizens" in the church or the fighting army? Saints, we should know assuredly that oneness with brother Lee and his ministry is not automatically oneness with the Body. These are two different matters. As significant and noble as it is to pursue oneness with brother Lee and his ministry, if this pursuit isn't balanced with a practical and genuine care for all the members, a wide gulf is created between the saints. This is division! "In the Body life the same care should be given to all the different members. A difference in care causes division" (1 Cor. 12:25 footnote, RV). In the new way we were not eager to keep the oneness of the Spirit in the uniting bond of peace with every member (Eph. 4:3)." This was due to LSM's rebellion to God's word in the New Testament and going about to establish their own exclusive brand of "oneness" in a sectarian utopia formed in willful negligence to God's word and the apostle Paul's example of keeping the unity among the saints in the churches.

05-12-2011, 07:26 PM	#7
Indiana Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 707	Re: A Healthy Revelation and LSM's Rebellion Witness Lee 1968: “It is only by being so liberal and general that we can receive all the saints in a proper way. If we are otherwise, we cannot avoid being sectarian in the matter of receiving. If we are special in anything and insist upon that, we will probably not receive those who differ from us in certain matters. But the Apostle said, ”Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.” What he meant when he referred to “him that is weak in the faith” is illustrated in the following verses: i. e., the matter of eating and keeping of days. By this we are affirmatively told that we must receive the saints who differ from us in these things. Any saint who holds a different opinion or concept regarding the things we are in favor, we must receive, “for God hath received him.” As long as he is a saint, as long as He has received him, we have no right to reject him. Our receiving must be the same as God’s receiving, no less and no more. God’s receiving is the basis of our receiving. Our receiving must not be according to our taste, our opinion, or our assertion. It must be in accordance with God’s receiving. It must be based upon God’s receiving – nothing else. God receives people according to His Son. As long as a person receives His Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, as His personal Savior, regardless of the concepts he holds regarding all other things, God receives him immediately. Since God receives people in this way, we too must receive people in the same way. Our receiving must be in accordance with God’s receiving. If our receiving differs from His, it means that we are wrong: either we are more narrow or more broad than God. This will cause much trouble and damage to the church life. God’s receiving is based upon Christ’s receiving, and Christ’s receiving is in accordance with our faith in Him. Whoever believes in Him, He will receive. Whoever receives Him, He will never reject. He said, “Him that cometh to Me I will in no wise cast out” (John 6:37). Since coming to Him, believing in Him, receiving Him, is the only condition for Christ’s receiving, so we must receive people upon the same basis with nothing added. As long as anyone believes in Christ our Lord, as long as he receives Him as his personal Savior, we must receive Him with nothing else required. Regardless of how he may dissent in so many other things, as long as he is a real believer in the Lord, we have no choice but to receive him. For the Lord has received him. This is why the Apostle said, “Wherefore receive ye one another, as Christ also received us to the glory of God.” We must receive whoever Christ has received. We must have such a proper receiving of all the saints that we may keep the proper unity; otherwise, we can never keep ourselves from being sectarian and causing much confusion and damage to the church life. To practice the church life by keeping the proper unity, such a general receiving is necessary. May the Lord have mercy upon us!” (W. Lee, Practical Expression of the Church, pp 66-77, 1968) .................................................. ..................................... (In the Wake of the New Way - 2001) Brother shared in 1986, "When Gideon was called to take the army to fight the battle for Jehovah, the Lord told him that he had too many. Eventually, the Lord chose three hundred men and told Gideon to send the others home. This does not mean that whoever went back home was no longer an Israelite. He was still an Israelite, but he had nothing to do with the fighting army". He gave the analogy that "to be a citizen of the United States is one thing, but to fight in the United States army is another matter". Gideon only needed three hundred men and the rest could go home. This was the spirit of the Lord's new move. Many actually did go home and did not return. There was to be "no uncertain sounding of the trumpet" for the army to follow with brother Lee as its unique leader. He had the burden to train this army to get into the deeper truths of God's New Testament economy and propagate them throughout the earth. While addressing the elders during an elders training, he said, "You may say that you follow Brother Lee, that you are one with this ministry. That sounds very good, but I am a little concerned that you may not know what it means to be one with this ministry. You may want to take me as your commander-in-chief and follow me, but I do not want to have many followers who know nothing about God's New Testament economy. We are not doing anything but carrying out God's New Testament economy." Speaking in this way, he showed that he meant business for the saints to rise up to become constituted with the word of God's economy for "the Lord's move on the earth". This manner of fellowship caused quite a stir in the churches, and most of the saints in the churches initially wanted to give their full cooperation for this turn. But not every brother and sister and not every church felt this way. Gradually, more members grew cold, though most churches were endeavoring to go on in the new way. Brother Lee did anticipate problems, saying, "I am prepared to meet a situation in which some in the Lord's recovery will not go this way. This will not surprise me. You and I should not consider these ones as strangers and should not cut them off from the recovery. We should still love them, respect them, and not despise them a bit. Do not consider them as another kind of people. Although they have not joined the army, they are still proper citizens." It proved quite difficult, however, to realize the proper care and acceptance of churches or individuals who could not rise up for the new way. It was, in fact, impossible in many places and with a number of people. Many felt ostracized and out of function. Some just lost heart because they viewed the new way as a lot of activity with stress on numbers and production and less concentration on the person of Christ and our enjoyment of Him. This, along with other matters, became an expanding concern for them and for many leading ones as they saw discouragement set in among the saints in their localities.

05-16-2011, 11:34 AM	#10
OBW Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: DFW area Posts: 4,382	Re: A Healthy Revelation and LSM's Rebellion I just have one comment on the posts in general. Each section should have a clear header or delineation between items so that the break between different source documents and Steve's comments is easily discernible. I often am suddenly unsure who is saying what. __________________ Mike I think . . . . I think I am . . . . therefore I am, I think — Edge OR . . . . You may be right, I may be crazy — Joel

05-20-2011, 07:40 AM	#12
Cal Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: USA Posts: 4,330	Nothing wrong with being a movement There is nothing wrong with being a movement. The problem comes in when some movement considers itself something more than a movement. God has used movements down through history. Each movement has something of God and something of man. It's silly to expect any movement to have no traces of human tendencies, or to dismiss a movement that God is legitimately working in as "a movement of man." Except is extreme cases, almost no movement in Church history was purely "a movement of man." The category, for most practical intents, is meaningless and useless. It's simply idealism. This idealism that insists on everything being a pure "move of God" is unrealistic and self-deceptive. It's unrealistic because anything where people are involved is going to be imperfect. It's self-deceptive because it leads people to always be seeking the elusive "holy grail" of God's pure move. Such a thing only exists in heaven. On earth we have to work with what we have. It's also self-deceptive because it leads people to think they can define this pure move or, worse, have actually found it. This is exactly what happened in "the Lord's Recovery." It was idealism run amok. Such a thing results in two grave errors: Feeling one needs to defend to the death the "pure move" one is "in," and the corollary, condemning all other "movements." Stop looking for the holy grail. Work with what you have and what God has put before you.

05-20-2011, 08:21 AM	#13
Cal Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: USA Posts: 4,330	Re: Nothing wrong with being a movement My point is that a distinction between a "move of God" and "a movement of man" is useful only in theoretical discussions. In practice it produces a false and dangerous dichotomy. One cannot detect what is a pure move of God, and detecting the influence of man in a movement does not disqualify it. Endless nitpicking about it is a waste of time. The holy grail is a myth.

05-20-2011, 04:15 PM	#14
Indiana Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 707	Re: A Healthy Revelation and LSM's Rebellion (In the Wake of the New Way) Nov 2000 What The Recovery Needs From the beginning of brother Lee's ministry in the United States clear to the end of it, although we heard marvelous things, we heard comparatively little about love. Near the end of his ministry, however, he did speak more concerning the need for love among us. He said, "In the last few years, we have appreciated the Lord's showing us the high peak of the divine revelation. My concern is that although we may talk about the truths of the high peak, love is absent among us. If this is the case, we are puffed up, not built up. The Body builds up itself in love". He actually began to speak in this way starting in 1988 and, intermittently, to the end of his ministry, addressing the elders on a number of occasions more definitely about this need. He said, "according to my observance throughout the years, most of the co-workers have a human spirit of "power" but not love. We need a spirit of love to conquer the degradation of today's church…this is what the recovery needs." He also stated, "only love prevails" and that "love is the most excellent way". He said it is the way to be an elder or a co-worker, and that it is the way to handle the saints. He proclaimed that it is the way to do everything and to be anything in the church life. It was about this time that he looked back over his church life experience and recalled that his best days were in Chefoo. He said that that was his most prosperous, fruitful time in the church due to the love and the practical shepherding of the saints. He testified that it was the shepherding that brought in the blessing. Although he had shared so much with the saints on the revelation of life in the scriptures throughout the years, he said that even the gospel of John, a gospel on life, needed the last chapter on shepherding to make it meaningful. The shepherding is needed to bring the loving seekers of God into the corporate relationship of God and man. The Revival In Chefoo Our brother seems to have pondered the non-encouraging results of the Lord's new move and the damage that had been done, having summed up his feeling in an elders training, testifying that the result of his labor in the United States had not been satisfactory. In fact, it had been “disappointing”. He also testified that his work in both Taipei and the Philippines never brought "satisfactory results", and that only one place had done so where he had labored -- "Chefoo, my home town." He was locked in by the war then and could not leave to minister to the churches. So, he gave his full attention to the needs in his locality. An extremely vital practice in Chefoo was for the leading shepherding ones to meet for hours and consider all the “difficulties and deficiencies” among the saints in their locality, then find a way to meet the need. He said, "This fellowship was not superficial, but deep, getting to the bottom of things." Brothers, as well as sisters were there, and they fellowshipped, prayed, and coordinated in oneness with the Lord for the shepherding of all the saints. As a result, the morale in that place was high and the real one accord was produced that made an impact on their city. This caused a revival to break out that lasted for ten years. They were the real spiritual parents taking care of the spiritual welfare of their spiritual children. The Church Family in Chefoo The church in Chefoo was like a family. It was a church family with an atmosphere of a spirit of love prevailing there. The love inspired the people and motivated them. Love kept people in the church, and love brought new ones in. This church family experience was their oneness providing the Lord a base to move in their locality. Besides being one of the shepherding ones visiting the saints in their homes regularly and when there was special need, a young brother Lee liked to have meals at the meeting hall and invite ten or twenty brothers and sisters to come and eat. During that time he would talk to them one by one. In this way he made contact with every one of the few hundred brothers and sisters. He said that by sitting down with them, chatting with them and getting acquainted with them he could get a clear impression about them and their need. In Chefoo there was no centerpiece, no special group as a distraction from the fundamental need to care for the members equally. The ministry was in place with no special emphasis on it or allegiance to it. All the leading ones gave their attention, time, and energy to the Body. Thus, the one accord was struck. Their increase came due to the love and the one accord! They had the same care for the rickshaw boy as for the banker, the same love for the coolie and his wife as for the "promising ones." It was their family. The Lord poured out His blessing on this! Today, we all need to be in a strong church family and deal with any atmosphere of a spiritual institution or education center. That is, we should have an atmosphere of a spirit of love prevailing, not just of spiritual seeking and of learning the deeper truths. We should notice if a brother or sister hasn't been meeting, or if they are having difficulty. Our thought is often about certain members that because they aren't meeting the church standard and expectation, maybe they're just not for the church. That wasn't the apostle Paul's thought. He said to "uphold the weak". They are our brother or sister, and they are necessary family members. Strong church families form the essential base for the one accord. Regardless of the outward activities and move of the Lord taking place in the churches, we all belong to a church family that should be practical in caring for its members. This is where the breakdown has been. A real family takes care of its members, being accountable for each one of them. It is the secret to having morale. A thriving church family affords the Lord a way to move on the earth with joy. A Timely Trumpeting For The Present Need Brother Lee recognized four years into the new way that there was the need to sound another trumpet call quite different from the first. He spoke messages to that effect in 1988 that are in print in a book called, A Timely Trumpeting For The Present Need. This was a trumpet call to elders and co-workers expressing the urgent and present need to care for people. He said, "Today, there are many brothers and sisters who need help. Hence, we have to do our best to contact them, to be concerned and care for them in love, and to strive to help and shepherd them." "I hope the elders and co-workers would take this word of fellowship and exhortation to give their all and their time to contact and shepherd people. This was our shortage in the past. Now we must recover this matter." Until his death, he would sound this trumpet again and again in 1989, 1991, 93, and 96 -- at least in these four years, in an ardent way. Our Way Is Not Right In speaking to the elders in 1996, he made a statement that took them aback. He said, "As I have said before, the spirit of not shepherding and seeking others and being without love and forgiveness is spreading in the recovery everywhere. I believe that not having the Father's loving and forgiving heart and not having the Savior's shepherding and seeking spirit is the reason for our barrenness. I realize that you all work hard, but there is almost no fruit. The Lord says, 'By the fruit the tree is known' (Matt. 12:33), but we are a tree without any fruit. Everywhere among us barrenness is very prevailing.” "Many of you are good speakers, knowing the higher truths. The truths we hold are much higher than those in Christianity. However, we do not have fruit because we are lacking in the Father's loving and forgiving heart and the Son's shepherding and seeking spirit. We condemn and regulate others rather than shepherd and seek them. We are short of love and shepherding. These are the vital factors for us to bear fruit, that is, to gain people. I am very concerned for our full-time training. Do we train the young ones to gain people or to regulate people? We have to reconsider our ways, as Haggai said (1:5). Our way is not right; something is wrong." It is wonderful to have the high and rich ministry of brother Lee. We in the churches enjoy and appreciate it immensely, and most of us would never leave it. Yet, "our way is not right; something is wrong"! This is a very sober and serious word and should be taken as such, especially by our leading ones. Something is wrong, brothers. This is the reason for my writing. I have to ask what was wrong with the way in Chefoo? Why was an experiment needed in the recovery? Chefoo was right! They had the real one accord. Love speaks louder than words, even the words that unlock the mystery of God and of Christ. For the saints in the recovery, this trumpet call is still going out to the churches. It is still the present need. There is the vital need not only to uphold the New Testament ministry in the proper way, but also to uphold as essential, the critical revelation and practice of receiving the believers. To uphold the weak and those with differing views is to be according to the Lord’s heart and to answer the trumpet call. It is also to respond to the Lord’s prayer in John 17, “that they all would be one”. The Lord's move should be a move in His Body involving all the members, not forgetting any among us -- and remembering those who left.

05-21-2011, 09:11 AM	#15
Indiana Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 707	Re: A Healthy Revelation and LSM's Rebellion In contrast to the sectarian One Accord movement found in the Local Churches today, there is the Love and One Accord found in the Scriptures. What a huge difference and deviation from the healthy revelation and understanding which the local churches once had, which they effectually act in rebellion against today. http://www.makingstraightthewayofthe...dOneAccord.pdf