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Old 09-12-2019, 08:22 PM   #1
jesusislord
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Default Narrow view of the church by Local Church

It's ridiculous they still hold the false view of one church one city. They are dividing themselves from 99% of the member of the body practically. When they talk about the feelings of the members and the reality of the body of Christ, why they don't see the rest 99% of the member?

Is the Lord happy of this stand? Will they go back to the bible and look at others theologian view regarding this matter? All the negative things could have been avoided if they have fellowship more with other groups. Now they're even more closed to themselves with one stream of divine flow. It is so hard to make sense of it, why the Lc people don't see the problem with that. I remember brother Nee recognize the breathens as the pararrel work of God back in the days, but why it has became one divine stream and the stream have to be with the Lc? (less than one percent of the entire Christian in the world)
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Old 09-15-2019, 10:11 PM   #2
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Default Re: Narrow view of the church by Local Church

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It's ridiculous they still hold the false view of one church one city. They are dividing themselves from 99% of the member of the body practically. When they talk about the feelings of the members and the reality of the body of Christ, why they don't see the rest 99% of the member?

Is the Lord happy of this stand? Will they go back to the bible and look at others theologian view regarding this matter? All the negative things could have been avoided if they have fellowship more with other groups. Now they're even more closed to themselves with one stream of divine flow. It is so hard to make sense of it, why the Lc people don't see the problem with that. I remember brother Nee recognize the breathens as the pararrel work of God back in the days, but why it has became one divine stream and the stream have to be with the Lc? (less than one percent of the entire Christian in the world)
I don't think the Lord is happy with the division caused.
We have

One Father
One Lord Jesus
One Spirit
One faith
One baptism
One hope of His calling
One body

To discard the members who cannot toe the LSM line......if they can't see their sin now, He will be faithful to reveal it to them someday. If in anything you are otherwise minded.......
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Old 09-16-2019, 04:40 AM   #3
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Default Re: Narrow view of the church by Local Church

The doctrine of "one church one city" is not about oneness but power.

Initially we could not know this fact because we believed that the proponents of this new teaching were godly and spiritual men. But like everything else in our Christian walk, time is needed for testing. (I Thess 5, Rom 12)

The actions of LSM have proven, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that my statement above is true. As I always say about politicians, "pay no attention to what they say, but what they do."
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Old 09-16-2019, 05:42 AM   #4
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The doctrine of "one church one city" is not about oneness but power.

Initially we could not know this fact because we believed that the proponents of this new teaching were godly and spiritual men. But like everything else in our Christian walk, time is needed for testing. (I Thess 5, Rom 12)

The actions of LSM have proven, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that my statement above is true. As I always say about politicians, "pay no attention to what they say, but what they do."
Can you explain further? The members are so supportive of the doctrine where most of the Christians don't buy or see. But I do hope one day they will wake up and repent, they are digging a rabbit hole when they don't learn from the rest of the body.
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Old 09-16-2019, 08:20 PM   #5
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Default Re: Narrow view of the church by Local Church

From the time of Jesus' death until the start of the local churches it was all just degraded christianity, standing on nothing. Thank goodness for the LC because now we can be the right kind of Christians from the right kind of church the Bible talks about.

Oh wait....

It's really kind of mind boggling and once you are out, or on your way out, you wonder how you held tight to some of these beliefs that now seem ludicrous. It's a bit jarring.
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Old 09-16-2019, 11:19 PM   #6
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Can you explain further? The members are so supportive of the doctrine where most of the Christians don't buy or see. But I do hope one day they will wake up and repent, they are digging a rabbit hole when they don't learn from the rest of the body.
Consider the primary addendum to their "one church one city" policy -- that only the apostles (i.e. The Anaheim leadership) can appoint elders in all the LC's.

They read the Bible like no other Christians on earth -- all through the lens of LSM's teachings. Not just are they controlled by the teachers in Anaheim -- the Mother of all LC's -- but all other teachers are just too "degraded" to even listen too.
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Old 09-17-2019, 06:53 AM   #7
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Default Re: Narrow view of the church by Local Church

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It's ridiculous they still hold the false view of one church one city. They are dividing themselves from 99% of the member of the body practically. When they talk about the feelings of the members and the reality of the body of Christ, why they don't see the rest 99% of the member?

Is the Lord happy of this stand? Will they go back to the bible and look at others theologian view regarding this matter? All the negative things could have been avoided if they have fellowship more with other groups. Now they're even more closed to themselves with one stream of divine flow. It is so hard to make sense of it, why the Lc people don't see the problem with that. I remember brother Nee recognize the breathens as the pararrel work of God back in the days, but why it has became one divine stream and the stream have to be with the Lc? (less than one percent of the entire Christian in the world)
Two points can be made here, one's a bit of a larger issue but still relevant, and the second's more specific to the LC as I experienced it.

First, any fellowship that bases itself on dividing from others will again be divided as its members eventually follow suit. Each fresh "revelation" or "truth" leads to a fresh division, or multiple divisions. It goes all the way back, that I can see. There was the "robber council" of Chalcedon where several church polities split off (Syrian, Armenian, Egyptian, Ethiopian etc), then the "Great Schism" of the East/West split, then the Anglicans, Protestants, Wesleyans, Baptists, Congregationalists etc etc. We've all read the histories, I'm sure. Each group finds some reason to leave the others, only to find their own members use the same reasoning to leave them. So it has been with The Little Flock/Lord's recovery, then with the splits of Titus Chu, Dong Yu Lan, who themselves get defections, etc.

In this, I see the "Lord's recovery" as merely a continuation of a long process of alienation and separation, often with acrimony (churches in the GLA area suing each other for possession of the physical assets, broadsides sent out by each party [DYL v/v LSM] charging the other with nefarious and egregious spiritual sins). So, nothing new under the sun, there.

The second thing, more to the point of the post quoted above, is "taking the stand" or "taking the ground" for all the members of the faith in that particular city, whilst not having anything to do with any of them! Does anyone recall this? I remember it slowly dawning on me that our "taking the ground" meant to be cloistered off in one building, putting our chairs in a circle and reading the writings of one ministry in Anaheim California. Everyone else in our town was off limits. No Christian was worthy of our time. If they had a "name" they were Babylon and to be shunned. If they didn't have a name they were a "free group" and needed to get on board with the One Body of Christ (us). Nobody, and I mean nobody, out there in our city got fellowship from us. You had to come in our circle and sit in our chairs in our building, and say, "Amen" when we read a footnote from the RecV.

Any attempt to reach out and acknowledge other believers was condemned by RK as "Building bridges to Babylon". I don't remember the date of that speech but I heard it, once. Of all the divisions, or sects, that have arisen over the past 2,000 years, the Local Church is one of the most divisive, adversarial, and sectarian that I can think of. Certainly in the top 10%. A "narrow view" indeed.
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Old 09-17-2019, 09:21 AM   #8
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Any attempt to reach out and acknowledge other believers was condemned by RK as "Building bridges to Babylon". I don't remember the date of that speech but I heard it, once. Of all the divisions, or sects, that have arisen over the past 2,000 years, the Local Church is one of the most divisive, adversarial, and sectarian that I can think of. Certainly in the top 10%. A "narrow view" indeed.
The higher the doctrine seems to reach for believers to cling onto, the bigger the snare it becomes. The one-church-one-city idea sounds so good and biblical, so surely it must be the way to oneness. But this forgets THE key thing - there is only one Way. Besides HIM there is no oneness, and no teaching, regardless of how good it seems, can ever replace Him.
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Old 09-17-2019, 10:04 PM   #9
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Consider the primary addendum to their "one church one city" policy -- that only the apostles (i.e. The Anaheim leadership) can appoint elders in all the LC's.

They read the Bible like no other Christians on earth -- all through the lens of LSM's teachings. Not just are they controlled by the teachers in Anaheim -- the Mother of all LC's -- but all other teachers are just too "degraded" to even listen too.
This is a much larger issue! Sounds like they have no way to turn back says if they hold on the wrong teaching. When they're not open to other groups they can't be corrected.
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Old 09-18-2019, 06:03 AM   #10
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It is ironic that the main "mantra" in the local church is "Jesus is Lord!" I am glad jesusislord pointed out how ridiculous it is to take a stand on the ground of the city.

If Jesus is truly Lord then we have to acknowledge Him as Lord and King and follow His teachings and insight. Even the Samaritan woman acknowledge no one could change the proper ground/place for worship except the Messiah. She specifically asked if the proper place of worship was the "city" Jerusalem. Jesus answer is profound … He tells her that the Jews are right to worship on the proper ground in the "city" of Jerusalem … but goes on to say AN HOUR IS COMING AND NOW IS when the TRUE WORSHIPPERS WILL WORSHIP GOD IN SPIRIT AND TRUTHFULNESS (please note no mention of the city boundary). Christ even specifally says neither in the city or mountain will be the proper place. If you follow the logic Jesus presented a local church in the city of "Jerusalem" can not take the ground of the city as the proper ground of the church because Jesus told the Samaritan woman that the physical city "Jerusalem" is NOW not the proper ground.

Considering Jesus teaching he gave to the Samaritan woman it is totally disrespectful to our Lord to say the city is the proper ground of the church to worship. If Jesus is truly Lord we have no choice but drop the concept of the city as the proper ground for the church. The proper ground in the new covenant is not a physical city … it is a spiritual city that Christ is trying to build (In spirit and truthfulness) . A lie is a lie and the truth is the truth no matter how good the lie sounds.

Unfortunately in the "local churches" the leaders and members refuse to let Jesus be Lord!
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Old 09-18-2019, 07:05 AM   #11
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It is ironic that the main "mantra" in the local church is "Jesus is Lord!" I am glad jesusislord pointed out how ridiculous it is to take a stand on the ground of the city.

If Jesus is truly Lord then we have to acknowledge Him as Lord and King and follow His teachings and insight. Even the Samaritan woman acknowledge no one could change the proper ground/place for worship except the Messiah. She specifically asked if the proper place of worship was the "city" Jerusalem. Jesus answer is profound He tells her that the Jews are right to worship on the proper ground in the "city" of Jerusalem but goes on to say AN HOUR IS COMING AND NOW IS when the TRUE WORSHIPPERS WILL WORSHIP GOD IN SPIRIT AND TRUTHFULNESS (please note no mention of the city boundary). Christ even specifically says neither in the city or mountain will be the proper place. If you follow the logic Jesus presented a local church in the city of "Jerusalem" can not take the ground of the city as the proper ground of the church because Jesus told the Samaritan woman that the physical city "Jerusalem" is NOW not the proper ground.

Considering Jesus teaching he gave to the Samaritan woman it is totally disrespectful to our Lord to say the city is the proper ground of the church to worship. If Jesus is truly Lord we have no choice but drop the concept of the city as the proper ground for the church. The proper ground in the new covenant is not a physical city it is a spiritual city that Christ is trying to build (In spirit and truthfulness) . A lie is a lie and the truth is the truth no matter how good the lie sounds.

Unfortunately in the "local churches" the leaders and members refuse to let Jesus be Lord!
Excellent post! Thank You KL.

Watchman Nee promoted this teaching of "ground of oneness" 100 years ago in order to discredit all the denominational missionaries in China who had brought the gospel to them.

Apostle Paul clearly told us that the time will come when Christians will be "boasters ... arrogant ... unthankful ... without natural affection ... implacable ... slanderers ... non-lovers of good ... traitors ... blinded with pride ... from these turn away." (2 Tim 3.1-5) It's amazing just how well Paul's prophecy here describes the Blendeds at LSM.
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Old 09-18-2019, 07:24 AM   #12
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This is a much larger issue! Sounds like they have no way to turn back says if they hold on the wrong teaching. When they're not open to other groups they can't be corrected.
You are correct. For decades they have maintained a "siege mentality," which is a hardened stronghold. (2 Cor 10.4-5)

Cal recently addressed this on his incredible Podcast "Exposing the Siege Mentality" on his My Opinions Free YouTube channel.
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Old 09-18-2019, 05:24 PM   #13
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I was listening to Steve Gregg on the radio today (ever listen to him? - he has a pretty good call-in Q&A show called "The Narrow Path") and a caller was asking about a group she recently had contact with, and whether it was healthy or cult-like. I didn't hear the name of the group she was asking about at first, but Steve labeled it a cult. They were talking about how the group thought they were the only church and how negative they were regarding other Christian groups. I thought for sure it was the LC by the various things they said, but then it turned out to be some other group calling themselves "The Universal Church of the Kingdom of God" (UCKG). But as they discussed some of the practices of this rapidly growing group I was struck by some of the similarities with the LC.

(BTW - This UCKG group started in 1977 in Brazil and has now spread to over 100 countries and is estimated at some 8 million members in that country alone, and also in 33 US states. Amazing how fast some of these things grow! Universal Church of the Kingdom of God )
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Old 09-18-2019, 07:20 PM   #14
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It is ironic that the main "mantra" in the local church is "Jesus is Lord!" I am glad jesusislord pointed out how ridiculous it is to take a stand on the ground of the city.

If Jesus is truly Lord then we have to acknowledge Him as Lord and King and follow His teachings and insight. Even the Samaritan woman acknowledge no one could change the proper ground/place for worship except the Messiah. She specifically asked if the proper place of worship was the "city" Jerusalem. Jesus answer is profound He tells her that the Jews are right to worship on the proper ground in the "city" of Jerusalem but goes on to say AN HOUR IS COMING AND NOW IS when the TRUE WORSHIPPERS WILL WORSHIP GOD IN SPIRIT AND TRUTHFULNESS (please note no mention of the city boundary). Christ even specifally says neither in the city or mountain will be the proper place. If you follow the logic Jesus presented a local church in the city of "Jerusalem" can not take the ground of the city as the proper ground of the church because Jesus told the Samaritan woman that the physical city "Jerusalem" is NOW not the proper ground.

Considering Jesus teaching he gave to the Samaritan woman it is totally disrespectful to our Lord to say the city is the proper ground of the church to worship. If Jesus is truly Lord we have no choice but drop the concept of the city as the proper ground for the church. The proper ground in the new covenant is not a physical city it is a spiritual city that Christ is trying to build (In spirit and truthfulness) . A lie is a lie and the truth is the truth no matter how good the lie sounds.

Unfortunately in the "local churches" the leaders and members refuse to let Jesus be Lord!
Wow....so much light comes from the body! I totally agree with this. How can true worship, the kind Jesus is seeking, (from our spirit!!) have anything to do with the physical boundaries of a physical city? It is not what He taught us in the word!
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Old 09-27-2019, 07:12 AM   #15
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I was listening to Steve Gregg on the radio today (ever listen to him?

I listen to Steve Gregg's "The Narrow Path" Q&A radio show often he was very helpful in opening my eyes to the nonsense taught in the local churches. One day he gave an answer to a question regarding what is a type or shadow? He said "A shadow is not the reality of a thing a shadow is in a sense darkness (the absence of light). Consider this if the physical ground of locality (the city - like Jerusalem) is just a type or shadow the local church members are taking a stand in darkness. 1 John 1:5 states God is light and in him is no darkness at all. How can you Abide in the Vine if you are taking a stand on/in darkness. James 1:17 when talking about God the Father says with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. For a Christian to take a stand on a shadow (i.e. the physical city) while simultaneously criticizing another Christian for taking a stand on a shadow (i.e. Sabbath day) is the HIGH PEAK OF HYPOCRISY. I took the picture posted here to a meeting one day and some of the local church members understood my point some of the others saw it and had fire and brimstone coming out of their ears and nostrils. It appears that a picture is truly worth a thousand words
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Old 09-27-2019, 08:48 AM   #16
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I listen to Steve Gregg's "The Narrow Path" Q&A radio show often he was very helpful in opening my eyes to the nonsense taught in the local churches. One day he gave an answer to a question regarding what is a type or shadow? He said "A shadow is not the reality of a thing a shadow is in a sense darkness (the absence of light). Consider this if the physical ground of locality (the city - like Jerusalem) is just a type or shadow the local church members are taking a stand in darkness. 1 John 1:5 states God is light and in him is no darkness at all. How can you Abide in the Vine if you are taking a stand on/in darkness. James 1:17 when talking about God the Father says with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. For a Christian to take a stand on a shadow (i.e. the physical city) while simultaneously criticizing another Christian for taking a stand on a shadow (i.e. Sabbath day) is the HIGH PEAK OF HYPOCRISY. I took the picture posted here to a meeting one day and some of the local church members understood my point some of the others saw it and had fire and brimstone coming out of their ears and nostrils. It appears that a picture is truly worth a thousand words
Now that is an interesting way of looking at it! "Taking a stand on the shadow" and therefore not in the reality is, in effect, standing in darkness. Good illustrative picture too - thanks for sharing!
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Old 09-27-2019, 09:04 AM   #17
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One day he gave an answer to a question regarding what is a type or shadow? He said "A shadow is not the reality of a thing a shadow is in a sense darkness (the absence of light). Consider this if the physical ground of locality (the city - like Jerusalem) is just a type or shadow the local church members are taking a stand in darkness. 1 John 1:5 states God is light and in him is no darkness at all. How can you Abide in the Vine if you are taking a stand on/in darkness. James 1:17 when talking about God the Father says with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. For a Christian to take a stand on a shadow (i.e. the physical city) while simultaneously criticizing another Christian for taking a stand on a shadow (i.e. Sabbath day) is the HIGH PEAK OF HYPOCRISY. I took the picture posted here to a meeting one day and some of the local church members understood my point some of the others saw it and had fire and brimstone coming out of their ears and nostrils. It appears that a picture is truly worth a thousand words
Great points KL, and btw, Welcome to the LCD Forum.

Please consider registering. Your inputs are valuable to the discussion. We have no great teachers here, rather the truth is made known, "here a little, there a little," (Isa 28.10) as we expose all the leaven of the Recovery.

You have just connected these verses for me Col 2.16-17 and John 4.21-23. Jesus and Paul both faced the same battle which could be summarized as the great transition from SHADOWS to REALITY. Jesus told the Samaritan woman that the hour is coming when the true worshipers will not worship in a physical place, neither the "right" mountain, nor the right city, nor the right temple/building. Jesus basically defined all true worship -- if you can see it, touch it, or go to it, then it's not real worship -- because real worship and real oneness is in the Spirit.

Apostle Paul went further in Colossians saying that all these things, including feasts and celebrations, are just shadows of things to come. They are not the real thing. Only Christ is the reality, or body, of these shadows.

For the LC's to use city boundaries or fellowship with the LSM Blendeds as their ground of oneness is the same in principle as using the Sabbath to unify us. Instead of uniting us in oneness, both simply divide the body of Christ further.
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Old 09-27-2019, 09:17 AM   #18
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Great points KL, and btw, Welcome to the LCD Forum.

Please consider registering. Your inputs are valuable to the discussion. We have no great teachers here, rather the truth is made known, "here a little, there a little," (Isa 28.10) as we expose all the leaven of the Recovery.

You have just connected these verses for me Col 2.16-17 and John 4.21-23. Jesus and Paul both faced the same battle which could be summarized as the great transition from SHADOWS to REALITY. Jesus told the Samaritan woman that the hour is coming when the true worshipers will not worship in a physical place, neither the "right" mountain, nor the right city, nor the right temple/building. Jesus basically defined all true worship -- if you can see it, touch it, or go to it, then it's not real worship -- because real worship and real oneness is in the Spirit.

Apostle Paul went further in Colossians saying that all these things, including feasts and celebrations, are just shadows of things to come. They are not the real thing. Only Christ is the reality, or body, of these shadows.

For the LC's to use city boundaries or fellowship with the LSM Blendeds as their ground of oneness is the same in principle as using the Sabbath to unify us. Instead of uniting us in oneness, both simply divide the body of Christ further.
Well put!

And interesting that you would allude to the 7 Day Adventists and their insistence on adhering to the sabbath shadow. It seems I've heard about them in various ways the last few days (in fellowship, on here and also on the radio). The SDA and the LC have much in common. They both live in the shadow (as KL points out); they adhere to and elevate a dead, so-called prophet; they separate themselves (elitism) from other believers based on their shadow-based doctrine; I think the SDA has a strong, central command & control; many are leaving because of these things, etc.
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Old 09-27-2019, 10:21 AM   #19
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Well put!

And interesting that you would allude to the 7 Day Adventists and their insistence on adhering to the sabbath shadow. It seems I've heard about them in various ways the last few days (in fellowship, on here and also on the radio). The SDA and the LC have much in common. They both live in the shadow (as KL points out); they adhere to and elevate a dead, so-called prophet; they separate themselves (elitism) from other believers based on their shadow-based doctrine; I think the SDA has a strong, central command & control; many are leaving because of these things, etc.
Yes, they have their verses. I know of one former LC brother who is now an SDA minister. "Let each be persuaded in their own minds." (Rom 14.5) It's truly incredible when I consider all the diverse directions that ex-LCers have gone!

We must conclude that, in some way, we all have errors in our thinking, our own personal belief system. None of us have a perfect belief system. Loving God and loving our neighbor really saves us from much error. It's so easy to love doctrines, but try to love my neighbors! But doctrines, on the other hand, are so great. They make us feel important, and better than the next guy. And they can puff us up, and sometimes that feels so good!
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