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Old 05-27-2020, 07:22 AM   #6001
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Originally Posted by Sons to Glory! View Post
But, on the whole, I do think the GOP has the edge in the truth department, only because there are more born-agains in that camp . . .
I have observed that conservatives prefer knowing the truth and applying an objective assessment, and tend to pause until the facts are known. Saw that with Kavanaugh. Same with that Covington HS kid. Another big one was that monuments debate in Charlottesville. Russia collusion. Ukrainian quid pro quo. Trump emoluments. I could go on all day . . .

I even saw it with Joe Biden and Tara Reade. Conservatives paused and wanted due process, same as they did with Kavanaugh, but the Left moved to quickly dismiss and smear the victim messenger.

Being conservative doesn't mean perfection, and there have been many failures, yet being fair and honest is a Christian trait. On the contrary, I see very little fair and honest on the left. Mostly reactionary sheeple who take their marching orders from the daily mass email.
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Old 05-27-2020, 11:17 AM   #6002
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Can someone explain to me why the same people who don't need to wear a mask because God will protect them also need an AR-15 because God won't?
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Old 05-27-2020, 09:35 PM   #6003
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Can someone explain to me why the same people who don't need to wear a mask because God will protect them also need an AR-15 because God won't?
Dr. Fauci said that the mask does nothing, and it's only a symbol.

Stopping a virus with a mask is like restraining mosquitoes with a chain link fence.

After 3 months of this nonsense, people are seeing the hypocrisy in our leaders, especially the Democratic governors, and deciding that wearing masks is a joke. It's nothing more than a fashion statement at this point.

Wearing a mask is more dangerous than not. By hiding one's face, all forms of criminal activity can be done under the cloak of anonymity. There's reasons why criminals hide behind masks, and the dangers from criminals exceeds the dangers from this virus. Because of this, now more than ever people feel the need for firarms.

You should be thankful that you have a great governor in DiSantis.
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Old 05-28-2020, 12:35 PM   #6004
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The latest science on effectiveness of wearing masks: https://science.sciencemag.org/conte...cience.abc6197
Bottom line: it is not political, it is your way of slowing the spread and showing others that you care about their health!
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Old 05-28-2020, 01:31 PM   #6005
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The latest science on effectiveness of wearing masks: https://science.sciencemag.org/conte...cience.abc6197
Bottom line: it is not political, it is your way of slowing the spread and showing others that you care about their health!
Sounds more like virtue signaling than science.

Now the criminals behind masks are telling us what "science" is. Buyer beware!
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Old 05-28-2020, 02:12 PM   #6006
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You should be thankful that you have a great governor in DiSantis.
Not as thankful as we are of Kentucky's governor. While DiSantis has done little to protect the health of his citizens, or not as much as my Democratic governor ; Florida's cases are still on the rise, while Kentucky's is on the decline.

See, Trump's retweet that, "The only good democrat is a dead democrat," is far from true. But since when has Trump ever cared about truth? who cares less about human life than Disantis, like so many other republican governors, whether born again or not ; that doesn't seem to move Christians to follow the teachings of Jesus.

What good does being born again do? It doesn't look like any good. It sure doesn't seem to cause loving your neighbor as yourself.
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Old 05-28-2020, 09:29 PM   #6007
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Not as thankful as we are of Kentucky's governor. While DiSantis has done little to protect the health of his citizens, or not as much as my Democratic governor ; Florida's cases are still on the rise, while Kentucky's is on the decline.
Florida's Governor did much to protect his citizens, especially the sick and the elderly, and that is where he put all of his efforts, contrary to Andrew Cuomo, who forced his nursing homes to take covid- 19 patients. Who would do that? Cuomo is responsible for murdering thousands. In fact, it looks like nearly all the Democratic governors are totally brain dead when it comes to the difficult decisions needed today.
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Old 05-29-2020, 06:59 AM   #6008
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Progressive Insanity in Minneapolis:
  • George Floyd, a known peacemaker without a criminal record, unknowingly passes a bogus $20 bill
  • Police send 4 cops to arrest him for his "horrendous" crime
  • Cop with long rap sheet of abuses brutally kills the man
  • Hennepin County decides not to arrest the cops until more evidence is found
  • Looters and arsonists destroy the community while police and national guard effectively stand down
  • Mayor calls on looters and rioters to properly "social distance" and wear their masks
  • Police make only one arrest -- a black CNN reporter
  • Riots, looting, shooting, and destruction spread to a city near you
  • Trump calls on Mayor to take decisive action, or he will, and Twitter censors him for "violent" speech
  • Progressive media decides that Minnesota mayhem is all Trump's fault
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Old 05-29-2020, 07:53 AM   #6009
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FYI I was sent this message this morning on Facebook messenger:

Dear saints,
Below is a letter composed by Rick Scatterday along with another doctor in the Lord’s recovery. This letter was given in response to a question that was recently presented to brother Rick. We feel to share it with all of you, because as you will see in reading it, it gives a very balanced view related to considerations all the churches will be facing in the future related to meetings. In addition, we brothers in Dallas would like to offer some fellowship at the end of this letter.
Considerations Regarding the Relaxation of COVID-19 Mitigation Measures, May 12, 2020
• Governmental and public health authorities agree that the relaxation of pandemic mitigation measures as called for by federal and state guidelines is not related to a decrease in risk of infection, but rather to socioeconomic pressures. They agree that such relaxation is premature from the standpoint of public safety, but is described as being economically and politically unavoidable.
• This realization is important, as it should urge us to continue to exercise protective measures as thoroughly as possible within the limits of the practicality of our situation.
• Observations related to analogous past pandemics, and the experience of other countries with COVID-19 predict that we may experience a second wave of infection. In some previous pandemics, this second wave has been worse than the first.
• Assumptions made based upon early observations in China that children and young people are less susceptible to COVID-19 infection and complications have not been confirmed by the experience in Europe and the United States.
• We should anticipate that it will take 1-2 years for the COVID-19 pandemic to resolve. This may be affected by the speed with which an effective vaccine becomes available, which at present is projected to be possibly in 2021.
• The responsibility that the brothers leading the churches bear to be protective of the well-being of the saints favors a position that the churches not quickly restore their corporate (face-to-face) meeting schedule in concert with the reopening of businesses, pending a period of cautious observation as to the situation in the community.
• When an employee is directed to return to work, he must do so. When a saint decides to move freely in the community, they are certainly entitled to do so. But, to repeat, the community is no safer, and probably less so now than when the mitigation measures were instituted. For the elders to lead the saints to on-site corporate meetings in the midst of a known hazard, especially as it relates to our significant population of older or otherwise predisposed persons, would seem to involve some responsibility for the potentially serious consequences.
• After the COVID-19 mitigation measures are substantially relaxed, how long would it take to be able to project the new baseline situation?
o It appears that an additional period of up to 4-6 weeks would be needed. If a person is infected as soon as the mitigation measures are relaxed, the incubation period of the virus to the point of the development of symptoms could be up to two weeks. From the time of initiation of symptoms, it could take another one to two weeks for the symptoms to reach their height, and for hospitalization, when necessary, to be required. In more serious cases, the hospitalization period could be one to two weeks, or longer.
o Thus, only some weeks after liberalization will we know the new baseline for risk of infection and of more serious complications.
• When the responsible brothers in a locality feel that it is safe to reconvene on-site corporate meetings, it would be prudent to do so in phases.
o Caution would suggest beginning with smaller gatherings, while carefully heeding the situation among the saints and in the community.
o It would be prudent to remind the saints that the risk of COVID-19 contact and spread in the community has not diminished significantly, and that when resuming our meetings continued endeavor to apply recommended protective measures is still very important.
• Protectively speaking, it would be best for us to recommend that saints age 65 and older to not participate in corporate gatherings until a vaccine is available. In many cases, this would include the responsible brothers.
o During all phases of reopening, the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) recommends only virtual meetings for those who are “vulnerable populations,” including those over age 65.
o It is not beneficial for the responsible brothers in this age group to feel that they need to be patterns to the saints by returning to the first reconvened gatherings.
o Rather, they should realize that the example that is most needed is for them to be patterns to the older, more vulnerable saints by remaining at home for safety reasons.
• When corporate meetings are opened and endorsed by the leading ones, they will certainly want to provide the option to saints who would like to remain back for health reasons to do so without feeling that they are violating the fellowship of the church.
o The elders may want to urge the saints to respect the decision of others who feel that they should remain under restriction when the church meeting schedule liberalizes. Hopefully, any who would like to exercise additional caution would sense support, rather than well-intended pressure to return.
o The elders may want to oversee the situation of saints who are hesitant to rejoin in-person meetings to assure that they have continued optimal access to virtual gatherings and fellowship.
• To optimize communication to the saints as to the direction to be taken by the church, the leading ones may want to convey their considerations to the saints in written form as well as verbally.
Our additional word of fellowship.
Dear saints,
We all find ourselves sovereignly in a very perplexing situation. In consideration of how to proceed in the future we very much appreciate the above fellowship offered by brothers, who have a long history of serving the Lord as medical doctors in the Lord’s recovery. In addition, we have appreciated the excerpts that are being attached to the Unceasingly Pray items each day. They have been very encouraging and enlightening. We also greatly look forward to the upcoming Memorial Day conference, which general subject is titled A Timely Word Concerning the World Situation and the Lord’s Recovery
Recently in fellowship with a number of the brothers bearing the leadership in the nine churches in the area, there were three points that came out in that fellowship. We realized in times like this that the enemy would like to frustrate our enjoyment of the blessing by damaging the one accord among the saints in the churches. With the need to consider how we go forward in our meeting life, there are at least three crucial matters we must practice.
1. Fellowship – In the Body, in the Word, in the New Testament ministry, with the saints, the churches and the coworker. There are at least two portions in the Word which focus on fellowship; 1 Cor. 1:9 and 1 John 1:3 – In these verses words and phrases are used to convey the importance of fellowship. Union, participation in Him. Putting away private interests and joining with others for a common purpose. In essence we maintain the fellowship and participate in its covering and oneness by setting aside our private interests to carry out God’s interest, His good pleasure
2. Seeking His Will – Inquiring as to what does the Lord want? Lord, what do You need to gain in this situation that You would get the glory and we would get Your blessing? Matt. 6:10 “…Your will be done…” We recommend two portions of ministry; 1) Deut. 30:15-16 and the HWMR Deut. Week 12 Day 4, the last two paragraphs. Which mentions that the life of a Christian is a life of blessing. 2) Excerpts from The Meaning and Purpose of Prayer, Chapter 1, p16-17. The last two paragraphs speak of the need of inquiring of the Lord.
3. Caring for one another. 1 John 4:7 …Love one another… Gal 6:10 ... let us do what is good toward all, but especially toward those of the household of the faith. Rom. 14:13 says, “Therefore let us judge one another no longer, but rather judge this: not to put a stumbling block or cause of falling before your brother.
As we have seen, our country is divided on a lot of issues and there are always at least two sides of every issue with ideas and opinions on how to handle things. Paul in 1 Cor. 6:12 said, “All things are lawful to me, but not all things are profitable…” In Rom. 14:13, he charges not to put a stumbling block before your brother. The Lord also said in Luke 17:1, “… It is impossible for causes of stumbling not to come, but woe to him through whom they come.” Many times, when we hold on to our opinion about what should or shouldn’t be done, or the way something should be or shouldn’t be done, we can either embolden people to follow our way or offend people by our way. Therefore, even if you or I have the feeling to take the liberty to relax the prescribed safety restrictions that the government has laid out in these days, we should not forget to care for others’ concerns. Not to embolden, judge or possibly stumble others in exercising our own liberty. Paul, in the matter of food said in 1 cor. 8:13, “Therefore if food stumbles my brother, I shall by no means eat meat forever, that I may not stumble my brother. Phil. 2: 1-3 If there is therefore and encouragement in Christ, if any consolation of love, if any fellowship of spirit, if any tenderheartedness and compassions, Make my joy full, that you think the same thing, having the same love, joined in soul, thinking the one thing, Doing nothing by way of selfish ambition nor by way of vainglory, but in lowliness of mind considering one another more excellent that yourselves.
Therefore, we need to take heed to open to the Lord and stay in fellowship to cooperate with the Lord and His Body to carry out His good pleasure. We need to see His will in all things. And we need to care for, honor and love one another. May the Lord save us in the His recovery from our opinions and let us do all things be done for the building up. 1 Cor. 14:26
Your brothers in Christ
#churchnews #localchurch
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Old 05-29-2020, 09:17 AM   #6010
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Default Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeek View Post
FYI I was sent this message this morning on Facebook messenger:

Dear saints,
Below is a letter composed by Rick Scatterday along with another doctor in the Lord’s recovery. This letter was given in response to a question that was recently presented to brother Rick. We feel to share it with all of you, because as you will see in reading it, it gives a very balanced view related to considerations all the churches will be facing in the future related to meetings. In addition, we brothers in Dallas would like to offer some fellowship at the end of this letter.
Considerations Regarding the Relaxation of COVID-19 Mitigation Measures, May 12, 2020
• Governmental and public health authorities agree that the relaxation of pandemic mitigation measures as called for by federal and state guidelines is not related to a decrease in risk of infection, but rather to socioeconomic pressures. They agree that such relaxation is premature from the standpoint of public safety, but is described as being economically and politically unavoidable.
• This realization is important, as it should urge us to continue to exercise protective measures as thoroughly as possible within the limits of the practicality of our situation.
• Observations related to analogous past pandemics, and the experience of other countries with COVID-19 predict that we may experience a second wave of infection. In some previous pandemics, this second wave has been worse than the first.
• Assumptions made based upon early observations in China that children and young people are less susceptible to COVID-19 infection and complications have not been confirmed by the experience in Europe and the United States.
• We should anticipate that it will take 1-2 years for the COVID-19 pandemic to resolve. This may be affected by the speed with which an effective vaccine becomes available, which at present is projected to be possibly in 2021.
• The responsibility that the brothers leading the churches bear to be protective of the well-being of the saints favors a position that the churches not quickly restore their corporate (face-to-face) meeting schedule in concert with the reopening of businesses, pending a period of cautious observation as to the situation in the community.
• When an employee is directed to return to work, he must do so. When a saint decides to move freely in the community, they are certainly entitled to do so. But, to repeat, the community is no safer, and probably less so now than when the mitigation measures were instituted. For the elders to lead the saints to on-site corporate meetings in the midst of a known hazard, especially as it relates to our significant population of older or otherwise predisposed persons, would seem to involve some responsibility for the potentially serious consequences.
• After the COVID-19 mitigation measures are substantially relaxed, how long would it take to be able to project the new baseline situation?
o It appears that an additional period of up to 4-6 weeks would be needed. If a person is infected as soon as the mitigation measures are relaxed, the incubation period of the virus to the point of the development of symptoms could be up to two weeks. From the time of initiation of symptoms, it could take another one to two weeks for the symptoms to reach their height, and for hospitalization, when necessary, to be required. In more serious cases, the hospitalization period could be one to two weeks, or longer.
o Thus, only some weeks after liberalization will we know the new baseline for risk of infection and of more serious complications.
• When the responsible brothers in a locality feel that it is safe to reconvene on-site corporate meetings, it would be prudent to do so in phases.
o Caution would suggest beginning with smaller gatherings, while carefully heeding the situation among the saints and in the community.
o It would be prudent to remind the saints that the risk of COVID-19 contact and spread in the community has not diminished significantly, and that when resuming our meetings continued endeavor to apply recommended protective measures is still very important.
• Protectively speaking, it would be best for us to recommend that saints age 65 and older to not participate in corporate gatherings until a vaccine is available. In many cases, this would include the responsible brothers.
o During all phases of reopening, the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) recommends only virtual meetings for those who are “vulnerable populations,” including those over age 65.
o It is not beneficial for the responsible brothers in this age group to feel that they need to be patterns to the saints by returning to the first reconvened gatherings.
o Rather, they should realize that the example that is most needed is for them to be patterns to the older, more vulnerable saints by remaining at home for safety reasons.
• When corporate meetings are opened and endorsed by the leading ones, they will certainly want to provide the option to saints who would like to remain back for health reasons to do so without feeling that they are violating the fellowship of the church.
o The elders may want to urge the saints to respect the decision of others who feel that they should remain under restriction when the church meeting schedule liberalizes. Hopefully, any who would like to exercise additional caution would sense support, rather than well-intended pressure to return.
o The elders may want to oversee the situation of saints who are hesitant to rejoin in-person meetings to assure that they have continued optimal access to virtual gatherings and fellowship.
• To optimize communication to the saints as to the direction to be taken by the church, the leading ones may want to convey their considerations to the saints in written form as well as verbally.
Our additional word of fellowship.
Dear saints,
We all find ourselves sovereignly in a very perplexing situation. In consideration of how to proceed in the future we very much appreciate the above fellowship offered by brothers, who have a long history of serving the Lord as medical doctors in the Lord’s recovery. In addition, we have appreciated the excerpts that are being attached to the Unceasingly Pray items each day. They have been very encouraging and enlightening. We also greatly look forward to the upcoming Memorial Day conference, which general subject is titled A Timely Word Concerning the World Situation and the Lord’s Recovery
Recently in fellowship with a number of the brothers bearing the leadership in the nine churches in the area, there were three points that came out in that fellowship. We realized in times like this that the enemy would like to frustrate our enjoyment of the blessing by damaging the one accord among the saints in the churches. With the need to consider how we go forward in our meeting life, there are at least three crucial matters we must practice.
1. Fellowship – In the Body, in the Word, in the New Testament ministry, with the saints, the churches and the coworker. There are at least two portions in the Word which focus on fellowship; 1 Cor. 1:9 and 1 John 1:3 – In these verses words and phrases are used to convey the importance of fellowship. Union, participation in Him. Putting away private interests and joining with others for a common purpose. In essence we maintain the fellowship and participate in its covering and oneness by setting aside our private interests to carry out God’s interest, His good pleasure
2. Seeking His Will – Inquiring as to what does the Lord want? Lord, what do You need to gain in this situation that You would get the glory and we would get Your blessing? Matt. 6:10 “…Your will be done…” We recommend two portions of ministry; 1) Deut. 30:15-16 and the HWMR Deut. Week 12 Day 4, the last two paragraphs. Which mentions that the life of a Christian is a life of blessing. 2) Excerpts from The Meaning and Purpose of Prayer, Chapter 1, p16-17. The last two paragraphs speak of the need of inquiring of the Lord.
3. Caring for one another. 1 John 4:7 …Love one another… Gal 6:10 ... let us do what is good toward all, but especially toward those of the household of the faith. Rom. 14:13 says, “Therefore let us judge one another no longer, but rather judge this: not to put a stumbling block or cause of falling before your brother.
As we have seen, our country is divided on a lot of issues and there are always at least two sides of every issue with ideas and opinions on how to handle things. Paul in 1 Cor. 6:12 said, “All things are lawful to me, but not all things are profitable…” In Rom. 14:13, he charges not to put a stumbling block before your brother. The Lord also said in Luke 17:1, “… It is impossible for causes of stumbling not to come, but woe to him through whom they come.” Many times, when we hold on to our opinion about what should or shouldn’t be done, or the way something should be or shouldn’t be done, we can either embolden people to follow our way or offend people by our way. Therefore, even if you or I have the feeling to take the liberty to relax the prescribed safety restrictions that the government has laid out in these days, we should not forget to care for others’ concerns. Not to embolden, judge or possibly stumble others in exercising our own liberty. Paul, in the matter of food said in 1 cor. 8:13, “Therefore if food stumbles my brother, I shall by no means eat meat forever, that I may not stumble my brother. Phil. 2: 1-3 If there is therefore and encouragement in Christ, if any consolation of love, if any fellowship of spirit, if any tenderheartedness and compassions, Make my joy full, that you think the same thing, having the same love, joined in soul, thinking the one thing, Doing nothing by way of selfish ambition nor by way of vainglory, but in lowliness of mind considering one another more excellent that yourselves.
Therefore, we need to take heed to open to the Lord and stay in fellowship to cooperate with the Lord and His Body to carry out His good pleasure. We need to see His will in all things. And we need to care for, honor and love one another. May the Lord save us in the His recovery from our opinions and let us do all things be done for the building up. 1 Cor. 14:26
Your brothers in Christ
#churchnews #localchurch
And I might add, stop calling on the lord and stop being "the shouters." It shoots the virus out in the air some 20 feet.
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Old 05-30-2020, 06:31 AM   #6011
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And I might add, stop calling on the lord and stop being "the shouters." It shoots the virus out in the air some 20 feet.
And why don't you take this same message to Minneapolis and many other major cities and tell all of these rioters to stop "shouting?" Aren't you worried about covid spreading among these anarchists?

Isn't it always easier and definitely safer to criticize these awful Christians?

Yesterday SCOTUS ruled that peaceful worshippers in church could be shut down. They ruled against the First Amendment to the Constitution.

Because it's always easier to criticize law-abiding and peaceful Christians.
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Old 05-31-2020, 07:00 AM   #6012
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And why don't you take this same message to Minneapolis and many other major cities and tell all of these rioters to stop "shouting?" Aren't you worried about covid spreading among these anarchists?

Isn't it always easier and definitely safer to criticize these awful Christians?

Yesterday SCOTUS ruled that peaceful worshippers in church could be shut down. They ruled against the First Amendment to the Constitution.

Because it's always easier to criticize law-abiding and peaceful Christians.
Where two or three are gathered.
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Old 05-31-2020, 10:14 AM   #6013
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I just saw this on countmeworthy's signature line and it spoke to me a little regarding what we see unfolding: "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."
(Luke 21:36)
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Old 06-05-2020, 08:30 PM   #6014
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I've made an interesting discovery. I walk a lot. Talk a lot with friends and neighbors. Made a simple conclusion a while ago, which has been true with almost no exception -- the more liberal, the more afraid; and the more conservative, the less afraid.

Perhaps this is because of the news they watch. Perhaps because the conservatives tend to be God-fearing and God-trusting. Perhaps other reasons. Many of the liberals are just spooked irrationally. Many of the conservatives view it as a hoax.

Perhaps it's nothing more than a self-reinforcing prophecy -- some tend to believe what they want to be true.
I do think news plays a big role. Turn off the news and you're somewhat unaffected by the narrative. The news are by and large anti-conservative 24/7. I do think the hatred for Trump is so strong, they're willing to cut off the hand to spite the thumb. They really want to believe the anti-conservative narrative as truth.
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Old 06-07-2020, 09:15 PM   #6015
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I do think news plays a big role. Turn off the news and you're somewhat unaffected by the narrative. The news are by and large anti-conservative 24/7. I do think the hatred for Trump is so strong, they're willing to cut off the hand to spite the thumb. They really want to believe the anti-conservative narrative as truth.
I have never seen so much deceptive brain-washing coming from the media. They constantly cut-and-paste Trump's words to smear him.
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Old 06-08-2020, 08:30 AM   #6016
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Default Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry View Post
I do think news plays a big role. Turn off the news and you're somewhat unaffected by the narrative. The news are by and large anti-conservative 24/7. I do think the hatred for Trump is so strong, they're willing to cut off the hand to spite the thumb. They really want to believe the anti-conservative narrative as truth.
Here is something I read that amazed me about media bias, and this should make it into the textbooks. It's a quote from a letter by 44 "journalists of color" who work for the Philadelphia Inquirer, sent to the newspaper. The letter is in response to a June 2nd op-ed piece the paper ran titled "Buildings Matter Too" that these 44 journalists didn't agree with. I find their response a little breathtaking, due to their unvarnished admittance that they have discarded all semblance of balanced reporting and that they actually put this in writing!

Quote:
“We’re tired of seeing our words and photos twisted to fit a narrative that does not reflect our reality,” the letter stated. “We’re tired of being told to show both sides of issues there are no two sides of.”
From Here: New York Daily News article about 44 Philadelphia Jounalist Letter

Please tell me if this article about these journalists' letter, and also what they said in meetings with the paper's management, amazed you as much as it did me! (and of course, the newspaper completely caved to these journalists' demands . . .)
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Old 06-10-2020, 08:43 AM   #6017
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Please tell me if this article about these journalists' letter, and also what they said in meetings with the paper's management, amazed you as much as it did me! (and of course, the newspaper completely caved to these journalists' demands . . .)
The media has absolutely become propaganda brainwashing.


Anyone to the right of AOC is being targeted.
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Old 06-23-2020, 07:27 PM   #6018
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We’re tired of seeing our words and photos twisted to fit a narrative that does not reflect our reality,” the letter stated. “We’re tired of being told to show both sides of issues there are no two sides of.”

This is not one-sided. It can go both ways. I am tired of seeing events being twisted and presented to fit a narrative that is far from accuracy. There are two sides to every issue and somewhere between is the truth.
Everything occurring in 2020 is about an election. From impeachment to covid to riots to a second covid wave and with each phase their best efforts are coming up short. Consider what will be next between now and November?
It's okay to assemble to protest and riot, but it's not okay for presidential rallies?
It's okay to assemble to protest and riot, but it's not okay to go to stand in line and cast your vote? Just as I am sure one side will push vote by mail, the other side will be pushing voter ID.
I am not a Trump supporter nearly as much as I oppose the injustice perpetrated against Trump and those in his inner circle. Really if readers want to know what this boils down to, what I see the media and the left doing to conservatives is much the same propaganda as LSM did to quarantined brothers.
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Old 06-24-2020, 07:10 AM   #6019
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We’re tired of seeing our words and photos twisted to fit a narrative that does not reflect our reality,” the letter stated. “We’re tired of being told to show both sides of issues there are no two sides of.”

This is not one-sided. It can go both ways. I am tired of seeing events being twisted and presented to fit a narrative that is far from accuracy. There are two sides to every issue and somewhere between is the truth.
Everything occurring in 2020 is about an election. From impeachment to covid to riots to a second covid wave and with each phase their best efforts are coming up short. Consider what will be next between now and November?
It's okay to assemble to protest and riot, but it's not okay for presidential rallies?
It's okay to assemble to protest and riot, but it's not okay to go to stand in line and cast your vote? Just as I am sure one side will push vote by mail, the other side will be pushing voter ID.
I am not a Trump supporter nearly as much as I oppose the injustice perpetrated against Trump and those in his inner circle. Really if readers want to know what this boils down to, what I see the media and the left doing to conservatives is much the same propaganda as LSM did to quarantined brothers.
So well said, bro!!!!!!!!

Here's another line that applies, "They don't hate Trump, they hate us as conservatives, constitutionalists, and Christians -- Trump just got in the way!
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Old 07-06-2020, 09:51 AM   #6020
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I do think the hatred for Trump is so strong, they're willing to cut off the hand to spite the thumb.
More like cut off the dumb to heal the land.
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Old 07-06-2020, 12:47 PM   #6021
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More like cut off the dumb to heal the land.
Tell me again how many dozens of innocent blacks have to die while we are daily preached to about "Black Lives Matter."

Here is the Official DoubleSpeak interpretation: Black Lives only Matter when they die in the custody of white police.
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Old 07-18-2020, 12:35 PM   #6022
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Complete Moron named "Ohio" Doesn't Realize Social Justice Activists Changed The Definition Of Every Word Last Week




Gahanna, Ohio — Really smart experts everywhere are pulling their hair out with frustration due to thousands of uneducated people not realizing leading voices in critical theory and social justice activism changed all the definitions of every meaningful word in the English language just a few days ago.

Tensions escalated today when Richard Christian, a YouTuber from greater Columbus, wrote the comment: “I dunno... as a white man, I don’t think I’m a racist or that America is a racist country.”

At that ignorant statement, thousands of well-educated voices at universities around the country suddenly cried out in terror and refused to be silent.

I literally just can’t with this guy,” said Xandace Bertheratrix, Dean of Race and Gender studies at NYU. “Doesn’t he know that whiteness isn’t a race but a system of oppression, and that maleness isn’t a gender but a system of oppression, and that America isn’t a place but a system of oppression, and that it’s literally impossible for those things to not be racist? I mean, come on, man!” Dr. Bertheratrix barely got her sentence out before hyperventilating and collapsing on the floor.

Unfortunately, the NYU staff overheard Xandace use the non-inclusive phrase “come on, man.” She was quickly carried off by campus social justice enforcers.

Further investigation revealed the horrifying truth that Richard didn't even know the definition of any of these terms:
  • Queerantagonism
  • Non-consensual co-platforming
  • Brown fragility
  • Microinvalidations
  • Mathematx
  • Intercorporeality
  • Autoethnography
Richard has been ordered to take reeducation courses or his homestead will be canceled.

A GoFundMe account has been started for poor Ohio. All posters are asked to prayerfully consider his desperate plight.
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Old 07-19-2020, 07:34 AM   #6023
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While y'all prattle on about this group and that group (see Cal's recent youtube), and protests permitted while Trump rallies aren't, Covid-19 has other plans :

Trump campaign backs off in-person events as coronavirus cases pick up

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/01/trum...s-pick-up.html
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Old 07-19-2020, 09:59 AM   #6024
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Complete Moron named "Ohio" Doesn't Realize Social Justice Activists Changed The Definition Of Every Word Last Week



Ohio, it's been over 30 years - is that you workin' the farm!?
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Old 07-23-2020, 10:55 AM   #6025
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List Of 183 Monuments Ruined Since Protests Began, And Counting

https://thefederalist.com/2020/07/22...-and-counting/
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Old 07-23-2020, 11:10 AM   #6026
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List Of 183 Monuments Ruined Since Protests Began, And Counting

https://thefederalist.com/2020/07/22...-and-counting/
Just hunks of metal, stone or plaster in my book . . . I have no real attachment. I understand both sides of this I think, but I'm not for pulling them down or destroying them. That is analogous to anarchy, and God is not the Author of confusion. But we are instructed to remember that it will all pass and be burnt with a fervent heat, so where should our hearts and minds be?

And patriotism taken a too far, in my book, is simply idol worship. Many worship the idea of this country and the American Dream. God's mercy is in waking us up from dreaming about things that are not eternal.
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Old 07-23-2020, 04:39 PM   #6027
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Just hunks of metal, stone or plaster in my book . . . I have no real attachment. I understand both sides of this I think, but I'm not for pulling them down or destroying them. That is analogous to anarchy, and God is not the Author of confusion. But we are instructed to remember that it will all pass and be burnt with a fervent heat, so where should our hearts and minds be?

And patriotism taken a too far, in my book, is simply idol worship. Many worship the idea of this country and the American Dream. God's mercy is in waking us up from dreaming about things that are not eternal.
I agree. Politicians love to build monuments to themselves. We should remember and honor great ideas and great speeches rather than great monuments.

But anarchists have no right to tear them down. They did nothing to put them up. First comes monuments, then buildings, then ideas, then people. This is what the Hitler Fascists, the Mao Communists, the Lenin Marxists, and the Stalin Communists have also done. The goal is never a better country, but destruction of the current country, all to put these unelected people in charge.
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Old 07-23-2020, 07:03 PM   #6028
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I agree. Politicians love to build monuments to themselves. We should remember and honor great ideas and great speeches rather than great monuments.

But anarchists have no right to tear them down. They did nothing to put them up. First comes monuments, then buildings, then ideas, then people. This is what the Hitler Fascists, the Mao Communists, the Lenin Marxists, and the Stalin Communists have also done. The goal is never a better country, but destruction of the current country, all to put these unelected people in charge.
Oh bro Ohio, why do you act paranoid, and fearful of an imaginary future?

The statues are idols ... plan and simple.
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Old 07-23-2020, 09:28 PM   #6029
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Oh bro Ohio, why do you act paranoid, and fearful of an imaginary future?
Paranoid?

I guess these antifa / blm riots have not yet come knocking on your door.

Otherwise we would see you with your shotgun standing outside of your door, like that guy in St. Louis.

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Old 07-24-2020, 06:27 AM   #6030
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Paranoid?

I guess these antifa / blm riots have not yet come knocking on your door.

Otherwise we would see you with your shotgun standing outside of your door, like that guy in St. Louis.

There again ... scary scary scary ... those scary BLM and antifa bogymen ... BLM under your bed, and antifa in your closet.
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Old 07-24-2020, 07:46 AM   #6031
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There again ... scary scary scary ... those scary BLM and antifa bogymen ... BLM under your bed, and antifa in your closet.
300 of these rioters, screaming violent threats, just busted down his front gate.

But to the blind following the blind, "nothing to see here folks."
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Old 07-24-2020, 09:07 AM   #6032
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300 of these rioters, screaming violent threats, just busted down his front gate.

But to the blind following the blind, "nothing to see here folks."
Oh knock it off trying to defend those bottom feeding ambulance chasers.

In Florida I worked for the world leader personal injury lawyer. Trust me. Even you wouldn't have liked him ... accept for maybe his money.
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Old 07-24-2020, 10:40 AM   #6033
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Oh knock it off trying to defend those bottom feeding ambulance chasers.

In Florida I worked for the world leader personal injury lawyer. Trust me. Even you wouldn't have liked him ... accept for maybe his money.
Here are the detailed instructions for hundreds of peaceful protesters sent to that guys house:

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Old 07-24-2020, 04:39 PM   #6034
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Oh knock it off trying to defend those bottom feeding ambulance chasers.
My ... you have been cold!

Without their weapons, this couple would have been slaughtered by hundreds of "peaceful" protesters, armed with rocks, chains, knives, sledge hammers, frozen bottles, cement shakes, molotov cocktails, etc. They busted down his gate, threatened to kill his family and burn his house down because of his "white privilege."

But awareness says he was a lawyer, so let him die!
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Old 07-24-2020, 04:51 PM   #6035
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My ... you have been cold!

Without their weapons, this couple would have been slaughtered by hundreds of "peaceful" protesters, armed with rocks, chains, knives, sledge hammers, frozen bottles, cement shakes, molotov cocktails, etc. They busted down his gate, threatened to kill his family and burn his house down because of his "white privilege."

But awareness says he was a lawyer, so let him die!
Hey, that doesn't make sense - lawyers are predominately left-leaning, aren't they?
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Old 07-24-2020, 08:22 PM   #6036
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Hey, that doesn't make sense - lawyers are predominately left-leaning, aren't they?
That's the irony. That lawyer was a life-long big-city liberal Democrat who did lots of personal injury work for blacks. You would think they were on the same side. Think again. These anarchist Marxists hated his "white privilege." They said he didn't deserve that big house, and it should be theirs. 99% of the liberals and Democrats in this country have no clue what is happening.
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Old 07-25-2020, 10:27 AM   #6037
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That's the irony. That lawyer was a life-long big-city liberal Democrat who did lots of personal injury work for blacks. You would think they were on the same side. Think again. These anarchist Marxists hated his "white privilege." They said he didn't deserve that big house, and it should be theirs. 99% of the liberals and Democrats in this country have no clue what is happening.
In my limited understanding of revolutions, that seems to make sense. That is, the ones generally supporting the revolutionist ideals are still no where as extremist as those driving the change, and they wind-up becoming a casualty themselves, and are quite surprised when that happens. In this case, someone who generally supported democrat/liberal ideas, are no where near the extreme Marxism and anarchy that they are encountering. They think they support it in theory, but it really means the end of "their little world" too.
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Old 07-25-2020, 10:43 AM   #6038
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In my limited understanding of revolutions, that seems to make sense. That is, the ones generally supporting the revolutionist ideals are still no where as extremist as those driving the change, and they wind-up becoming a casualty themselves, and are quite surprised when that happens. In this case, someone who generally supported democrat/liberal ideas, are no where near the extreme Marxism and anarchy that they are encountering. They think they support it in theory, but it really means the end of "their little world" too.
Think about all of these rich white liberals caving in to pressure and funding BLM in order to virtue-signal. Note that BLM currently are providing no accountability for their "donations." Like Winston Churchill once told these idiots, "you are feeding the crocodile hoping it eats you last."

What is going to happen when the anarchist mob of poor woke white leftists comes for their cars and homes and daughters? I tell my liberal neighbors, some of whom now proudly parade their BLM yard signs, that they got their nice cars and houses due to "white privilege," and they really don't deserve anything that they own. They look at me with shock, and then say, "that'll never happen."
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Old 07-25-2020, 11:04 AM   #6039
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Think about all of these rich white liberals caving in to pressure and funding BLM in order to virtue-signal. Note that BLM currently are providing no accountability for their "donations." Like Winston Churchill once told these idiots, "you are feeding the crocodile hoping it eats you last."

What is going to happen when the anarchist mob of poor woke white leftists comes for their cars and homes and daughters? I tell my liberal neighbors, some of whom now proudly parade their BLM yard signs, that they got their nice cars and houses due to "white privilege," and they really don't deserve anything that they own. They look at me with shock, and then say, "that'll never happen."
Right! As Awareness pointed out earlier, we have laws and courts that (supposedly) won't let that happen!

Listen, I love this country, but the tide of this world in fleshly Adam is rapidly sweeping the USA. The spirit of anti-christ is working in the sons of disobedience. Our response? It's as we sing, "Kings and kingdoms will all pass away, there's just something about that Name!" So my ultimate allegiance is with the King - all hail King Jesus!
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Old 08-20-2020, 10:57 AM   #6040
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What is going to happen when the anarchist mob of poor woke white leftists comes for their cars and homes and daughters? I tell my liberal neighbors, some of whom now proudly parade their BLM yard signs, that they got their nice cars and houses due to "white privilege," and they really don't deserve anything that they own.

They look at me with shock, and then say, "that'll never happen."
Well it did happen -- just a few blocks from my old home and meeting hall.

Idiot mayor supports BLM until they arrive at his own front door.
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Old 08-23-2020, 07:16 PM   #6041
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I agree. Politicians love to build monuments to themselves. We should remember and honor great ideas and great speeches rather than great monuments.

But anarchists have no right to tear them down. They did nothing to put them up. First comes monuments, then buildings, then ideas, then people. This is what the Hitler Fascists, the Mao Communists, the Lenin Marxists, and the Stalin Communists have also done. The goal is never a better country, but destruction of the current country, all to put these unelected people in charge.
Think George Orwell's 1984
“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.”

Kind of reminds me of LC groupthink on a much larger scale
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Old 09-12-2020, 07:09 PM   #6042
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TIM ALLEN - ON TRUMP ...
Whatever your feelings for Trump, these are some interesting points that Tim Allen makes. Put your hatred aside and think about these observations. Tim Allen is credited with writing this. Here are some interesting points to think about prior to 2020, especially to my friends on the fence, like moderate Democrats, Libertarians and Independents and the never Trump Republicans and those thinking of "walking away" from the Democratic party.
  • Women are upset at Trump’s naughty words -- they also bought 80 million copies of 50 Shades of Gray.
  • Not one feminist has defended Sarah Sanders. It seems women’s rights only matter if those women are liberal.
  • No Border Walls. No voter ID laws. Did you figure it out yet? But wait... there's more.
  • Chelsea Clinton got out of college and got a job at NBC that paid $900,000 per year. Her mom flies around the country speaking out about white privilege.
  • And just like that, they went from being against foreign interference in our elections to allowing non-citizens to vote in our elections.
  • President Trump’s wall costs less than the Obamacare website. Let that sink in, America.
  • We are one election away from open borders, socialism, gun confiscation, and full-term abortion nationally. We are fighting evil.
  • They sent more troops and armament to arrest Roger Stone than they sent to defend Benghazi.
  • 60 years ago, Venezuela was 4th on the world economic freedom index. Today, they are 179th and their citizens are dying of starvation. In only 10 years, Venezuela was destroyed by democratic socialism.
  • Russia donated $0.00 to the Trump campaign. Russia donated $145,600,000 to the Clinton Foundation. But Trump was the one investigated!
  • Nancy Pelosi invited illegal aliens to the State of the Union. President Trump Invited victims of illegal aliens to the State of the Union. Let that sink in.
  • A socialist is basically a communist who doesn’t have the power to take everything from their citizens at gunpoint ... Yet!
  • How do you walk 3000 miles across Mexico without food or support and show up at our border 100 pounds overweight and with a cellphone?
  • Alexandria Ocasio Cortez wants to ban cars, ban planes, give out universal income and thinks socialism works. She calls Donald Trump crazy.
  • Bill Clinton paid $850,000 to Paula Jones to get her to go away. I don’t remember the FBI raiding his lawyer’s office.
  • I wake up every day and I am grateful that Hillary Clinton is not the president of the United States of America.
  • The same media that told me Hillary Clinton had a 95% chance of winning now tells me Trump’s approval ratings are low.
  • “The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people’s money.”— Margaret Thatcher
  • Maxine Waters opposes voter ID laws; She thinks that they are racist. You need to have a photo ID to attend her town hall meetings.
  • President Trump said — "They’re not after me. They’re after you. I’m just in their way."

Read that again.
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Old 09-12-2020, 09:02 PM   #6043
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Look what happens when bumping into something you want to hear :

The comedian and actor Tim Allen wrote a lengthy Facebook post that attacked liberals and Democratic politicians and was shared widely in August 2019.

Misattributed

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ti...rals-facebook/
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Old 09-12-2020, 10:03 PM   #6044
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Look what happens when bumping into something you want to hear :

The comedian and actor Tim Allen wrote a lengthy Facebook post that attacked liberals and Democratic politicians and was shared widely in August 2019.

Misattributed

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ti...rals-facebook/
Fact checkers like Snopes need additional corroboration before I accept anything they publish. But whether Allen was the source or not, I notice that you have accepted all the other statements as facts?
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Old 09-12-2020, 10:30 PM   #6045
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Fact checkers like Snopes need additional corroboration before I accept anything they publish. But whether Allen was the source or not, I notice that you have accepted all the other statements as facts?
Projecting yet again ...
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Old 09-14-2020, 02:34 PM   #6046
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Fact checkers like Snopes need additional corroboration before I accept anything they publish. But whether Allen was the source or not, I notice that you have accepted all the other statements as facts?
Snopes, factcheck.org, Reuters, politifact.com, misbar.com, and more.

Seems that Reuters gave a lot of specific references to unnamed sources from times before Tim Allen's name was ever attributed to the list. And no one has a site to the list actually coming from Tim Allen, just claims that he did post it. (And he says he didn't.)

Sort of like the popular attribution of the statement "Always preach the gospel; if necessary, use words" to St. Francis of Assissi. It never happened. But because someone (Chuck Swindoll) said it back in the early 1990s, everyone is now saying it is true.

As for the content of the list, it has nice sound bites. But none of them are as
meaningful as the contextless snippets seem to suggest.

For example, "President Trump’s wall costs less than the Obamacare website." Referring to the cost of the repairs to the 200 existing miles of wall/fence, or the roughly 50 miles of new fence? The information on how much has actually been spent on the wall that was never officially financed is sketchy at best. If you are suggesting that the government is good at wasting money, that is a cross-party problem. Deficits increase under all presidents.

Or how about "Chelsea Clinton got out of college and got a job at NBC that paid $900,000 per year. Her mom flies around the country speaking out about white privilege." And the point is? I don't see a point. Just a bare fact. And it relates to Trump how? It says what about anything? Just a cold fact (assuming it is true) that makes no political statement. If the comment about Chelsea is supposed to say something about getting paid for being a Clinton, then how about Bushes all getting into the best schools, and mostly avoiding war, and then getting high-level jobs. No chance GHWB's credentials had anything to do with any of it?

A couple of the comments were noteworthy, though Tim Allen didn't post any of them. The one from Margaret Thatcher about socialism running out of other people's money is true. Yet the answer is not to simply be Scrooge and snarl at the poor and disadvantaged. You actually need to find something that helps without breaking the piggy bank. So ultimately, since Republicans tend to be "let them eat cake" kind of thinkers, you need some liberals around to raise the issues and come up with the start of solutions that pragmatic heads can bring down to earth so we actually do something that is both helpful and sustainable.

And while referencing Thatcher's statement, was that a well-researched statement that represented a comprehensive thumbs-down to liberal ideas en masse? Or was it a political statement made to rile up a conservative base during times of upheaval or election or in response to a particular liberal attempt to just do everything they think of? Just like in America, sound bites catch people's minds, but they are often not of real substance. Sort of like eating twinkies. They may taste good, but they have little nutritive value.

Just being snarky at the "other side" is not a solution. And it goes for the Bernies and AOCs on the left as well. That list — wherever it came from — does provide a few things to think about or look into. But it is not as meaningful as the typical Republican thinks it is. Instead, it points to the simple minds that think a few snarky words are sufficient to establish truth.
I'm getting flooded with ads, emails, and texts from both sides. And there are some similarities in the use of these kinds of simplistic statements at times. But this year the greater percentage of garbage statements has been coming from the Trump campaign. I've been tempted to answer their questionnaires, but I don't think they want my answers.
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Old 09-14-2020, 10:29 PM   #6047
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These "snarky" comments were never designed to "establish truth" as you say, rather to make people think, though that is lost on you.

I find this quite provocative -- more armed agents were sent to arrest Roger Stone than to rescue Americans at our embassy.

"If you did not have such double standards, you would have none at all."
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Old 09-15-2020, 07:23 AM   #6048
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Don'cha just hate when this happens . . .


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Old 09-15-2020, 09:07 AM   #6049
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These "snarky" comments were never designed to "establish truth" as you say, rather to make people think, though that is lost on you.

I find this quite provocative -- more armed agents were sent to arrest Roger Stone than to rescue Americans at our embassy.

"If you did not have such double standards, you would have none at all."
For the record : Tim Dick ... a comedian ... and an arch Trump supporting conservative.

I've always liked Tim. I consider him a smart guy. Back in the 90's I read is book : I'm not Really Here ; his philosophical take on Quantum Physics. I've got his book on one of my many book shelves -- the book is now worth over $300. BTW, it's my domain name : imnothere.org.

I really like his TV comedy show, Last Man Standing. I remember the brouhaha when ABC declined to renew the 7th season ; conservatives got all up in arms claiming it was canceled because Tim is a Trump supporting conservative -- in fact, Ohio, who doesn't watch the show, had to ring in on it out here. I didn't buy it ; his 3 daughters on the show were democrats. To me the show was/is fair and balanced. Seems conservatives like to play the victim. Turns out that wasn't the reason the show was canceled by ABC.

But that doesn't matter. Now a conservative cooked up this list, claiming to be by Tim Allen. And Ohio has jumped on this band wagon it again. I wonder way?
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Old 09-15-2020, 09:36 AM   #6050
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For the record : Tim Dick ... a comedian ... and an arch Trump supporting conservative.

I've always liked Tim. I consider him a smart guy. Back in the 90's I read is book : I'm not Really Here ; his philosophical take on Quantum Physics. I've got his book on one of my many book shelves -- the book is now worth over $300. BTW, it's my domain name : imnothere.org.

I really like his TV comedy show, Last Man Standing. I remember the brouhaha when ABC declined to renew the 7th season ; conservatives got all up in arms claiming it was canceled because Tim is a Trump supporting conservative -- in fact, Ohio, who doesn't watch the show, had to ring in on it out here. I didn't buy it ; his 3 daughters on the show were democrats. To me the show was/is fair and balanced. Seems conservatives like to play the victim. Turns out that wasn't the reason the show was canceled by ABC.

But that doesn't matter. Now a conservative cooked up this list, claiming to be by Tim Allen. And Ohio has jumped on this band wagon it again. I wonder way?
Is it now against your "laws" to agree with other conservatives?

If there ever was a better "bandwagon," it's only with the democrats. Don't they control all of the media, entertainment, newspapers, sports athletes and management, all minorities, suburban women, tv stations, the elderly, social media, universities, rioters, judges, big pharma, hollywood, blm, big cities, millenials, big tech, antifa, search engines, billionaires, wall street, etc.? Who is left? Anyone?

Just a few "we the people" in the few Trump rallies they can't shut down.

So ... why are you so afraid? What makes you tremble at a few conservative facts? And the Bible?
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Old 09-15-2020, 11:15 AM   #6051
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Is it now against your "laws" to agree with other conservatives?

If there ever was a better "bandwagon," it's only with the democrats. Don't they control all of the media, entertainment, newspapers, sports athletes and management, all minorities, suburban women, tv stations, the elderly, social media, universities, rioters, judges, big pharma, hollywood, blm, big cities, millenials, big tech, antifa, search engines, billionaires, wall street, etc.? Who is left? Anyone?

Just a few "we the people" in the few Trump rallies they can't shut down.

So ... why are you so afraid? What makes you tremble at a few conservative facts? And the Bible?
Yadda yadda yadda ... prattle.
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Old 09-18-2020, 09:39 AM   #6052
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Boy, I have to say that this whole left/right thing has become a little foreign to me now. I have disconnected maybe 95% from feeding regularly on the news media and as a result, I have to say that when I observe partisans going at it, it is just something of an odd curiosity. Having a conservative/libertarian leaning myself, I don't even like to hear conservatives going on about all the things. For instance, I have a good friend who is absolutely consumed with the state GOP machinery, but I groan within when he begins telling all the "insider" information regarding why things are the way they are.

Why is there a groaning in me over this? Because both sides are blinded, and when you are blinded, you can't even see you are blinded. And what you are prone to do then is blame all the issues on the other side. But if you are blinded you can't see that (because of blindness). So the polarization continues, and without divine intervention it will likely increase exponentially in the days ahead. Once again, the only solution is Christ and His love in us for one another.

For freedom He set us free brothers - and that includes being free from the worldly hatred of the other side, or at the least, from looking down on the other side. (I know, I know - we would never say we "hate" another brother, but . . .)
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Old 09-18-2020, 09:55 AM   #6053
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Boy, I have to say that this whole left/right thing has become a little foreign to me now. I have disconnect maybe 95% from feeding regularly on the news media and as a result, I have to say that when I observe partisans going at it, it is just something of an odd curiosity. Having a conservative/libertarian leaning myself, I don't even like to hear conservatives going on about all the things. For instance, I have a good friend who is all wrapped-up in the state GOP machinery, but I groan within when he begins telling all the "insider" information regarding why things are the way they are.

Why is there a groaning in me over this? Because both sides are blinded, and when you are blinded, you can't even see you are blinded. And what you are prone to do then is blame all the issues on the other side. But if you are blinded you can't see that (because of blindness). So the polarization continues, and without divine intervention it will likely increase exponentially in the days ahead. Once again, the only solution is Christ and His love in us for one another.

For freedom He set us free brothers - and that includes being free from the worldly hatred of the other side, or at the least, from looking down on the other side. (I know, I know - we would never say we "hate" another brother, but . . .)
Well amen ... finally, the voice of reason.
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Old 09-21-2020, 05:55 PM   #6054
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Great video clip by the Democrats! Enjoy!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...has_verified=1
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Old 09-22-2020, 09:29 AM   #6055
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Great video clip by the Democrats! Enjoy!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...has_verified=1
Yeah, but it's free speech!

A big part of the problem I see is that many on the left have a very Utopian view of things. (I'm drawing much of this from Thomas Sowell's book, "A Conflict of Visions.") Utopian views (i.e., "Unconstrained Vision") seem quite visionary, however, they are not very practical when real-world implementation is tried. The other vision, according to Sowell, is the Constrained Vision, which sees that man has certain limitations that need to be accounted for and some restrictions applied accordingly. People on the right tend to fall more into this vision category (I think especially more among Christians). The constrained vision side sees man as having some inherent problems, that need to be considered to keep him from getting out of control.

The Utopian side believes mankind has everything in us to make a perfect society, if these darned Constrained Vision people would just let them. Utopianism seems positive and good, but in the end it is man trying to make it on his own, independent from God.

It's interesting what happens in practice between these two. Each vision sees the other as enacting things that restrict freedoms. But that perception is measured against how much the one side is trying to restrict the other's vision.

While I love a good sci-fi fantasy about the future, I must say that a Utopian view is not accurate except, of course, in Christ - Who will do far above what we ask or think! Apart from Him, it's all folly and lipstick on an absolutely dead pig.
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Old 09-22-2020, 10:05 AM   #6056
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Yeah, but it's free speech!

A big part of the problem I see is that many on the left have a very Utopian view of things. (I'm drawing much of this from Thomas Sowell's book, "A Conflict of Visions.") Utopian views (i.e., "Unconstrained Vision") seem quite visionary, however, they are not very practical when real-world implementation is tried. The other vision, according to Sowell, is the Constrained Vision, which sees that man has certain limitations that need to be accounted for and some restrictions applied accordingly.
Thomas Sowell's story and writings are excellent!

This is how Democrats use this "Utopian View" today: Since at least one person has died from Covid, it proves Trump is evil, and should be tried for murder.

The Democrats always compare the Republicans with utopian perfection, yet never their own candidates. They all get a free pass.

I agree that only Jesus Christ will be the perfect King to rule the earth!
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Old 09-22-2020, 10:29 AM   #6057
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Thomas Sowell's story and writings are excellent!

This is how Democrats use this "Utopian View" today: Since at least one person has died from Covid, it proves Trump is evil, and should be tried for murder.

The Democrats always compare the Republicans with utopian perfection, yet never their own candidates. They all get a free pass.

I agree that only Jesus Christ will be the perfect King to rule the earth!
Sowell never frames it as Christian world view vs. non-Christian. But you can definitely see the fingerprints of a belief in God with the Constrained Vision! (and a casting-off of that constraint in the Unconstrained Vision) Personally, this causes conflict in me when I try to straddle or reconcile the two visions.

For instance, much of our business is in the general self-help category. We facilitate programs to help people reach their goals and change behaviors accordingly to achieve what they want. The programs were written by a believer, but since they are for wide dissemination to business leaders, most references to God are left out of these (not in the author's more personal writings however). So there is a theme of, "You can do or be anything you set your mind to - you have unlimited potential," in all of these materials.

Personally, I know this is false, however I'm paid to facilitate these ideas. Many times Christians take these programs and get very good results, but so do nonbelievers, and they also get good results. Oftentimes the Christian participant realizes that as it says in Proverbs, "Many are the plans in a man's heart, yet it is the Lord's purpose that prevails," and set their goals accordingly prioritized. In other words, they realize there is an ultimate constraint by the Almighty in this universe, and real wisdom and freedom is in seeking Him and His purpose.
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Old 09-22-2020, 11:24 AM   #6058
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Sowell never frames it as Christian world view vs. non-Christian. But you can definitely see the fingerprints of a belief in God with the Constrained Vision! (and a casting-off of that constraint in the Unconstrained Vision) Personally, this causes conflict in me when I try to straddle or reconcile the two visions.

For instance, much of our business is in the general self-help category. We facilitate programs to help people reach their goals and change behaviors accordingly to achieve what they want. The programs were written by a believer, but since they are for wide dissemination to business leaders, most references to God are left out of these (not in the author's more personal writings however). So there is a theme of, "You can do or be anything you set your mind to - you have unlimited potential," in all of these materials.

Personally, I know this is false, however I'm paid to facilitate these ideas. Many times Christians take these programs and get very good results, but so do nonbelievers, and they also get good results. Oftentimes the Christian participant realizes that as it says in Proverbs, "Many are the plans in a man's heart, yet it is the Lord's purpose that prevails," and set their goals accordingly prioritized. In other words, they realize there is an ultimate constraint by the Almighty in this universe, and real wisdom and freedom is in seeking Him and His purpose.
The Al Anon handbook is written from the same perspective, not Christian per se, but based on human nature, including both God's creation and the fall of man.

I don't see the conflict with telling people, "You can do or be anything you set your mind to - you have unlimited potential." All sports coaches say the same thing. It pushes us to know our limits. Obviously the "unlimited potential" needs realistic limits, but when our minds are stuck in the mud with self-imposed restrictions, coaching like this is beneficial.
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Old 09-22-2020, 11:56 AM   #6059
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The Al Anon handbook is written from the same perspective, not Christian per se, but based on human nature, including both God's creation and the fall of man.

I don't see the conflict with telling people, "You can do or be anything you set your mind to - you have unlimited potential." All sports coaches say the same thing. It pushes us to know our limits. Obviously the "unlimited potential" needs realistic limits, but when our minds are stuck in the mud with self-imposed restrictions, coaching like this is beneficial.
Sure. And I am fine that and clients pay us for that, regardless. But ultimately I know there are certainly restrictions in what we can do. The reality is, "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me!" But this declaration is still constrained within the realm of God's will . . .

As I look around the room, all I see is untapped potential! You have potential! You have . . . oh boy . . .

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Old 09-23-2020, 11:19 AM   #6060
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Sure. And I am fine that and clients pay us for that, regardless. But ultimately I know there are certainly restrictions in what we can do. The reality is, "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me!" But this declaration is still constrained within the realm of God's will . . .

As I look around the room, all I see is untapped potential! You have potential! You have . . . oh boy . . .


Do you find yourself checking out your nose frequently?
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Old 09-23-2020, 11:39 AM   #6061
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Do you find yourself checking out your nose frequently?
Yes I do! It's hard working with a bunch of losers!

Actually, I know everyone has "untapped potential." The process works to help people achieve what they want - and what they want, as paying customers, is up to them! (However, I also realize it's ultimately all up to God.)
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Old 09-25-2020, 09:35 AM   #6062
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Abortion: the only word that can make followers of Jesus vote against everything Jesus ever talked about because of one issue that Jesus never talked about.
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Old 09-25-2020, 09:58 AM   #6063
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Abortion: the only word that can make followers of Jesus vote against everything Jesus ever talked about because of one issue that Jesus never talked about.
I see that as something of a Stawman Argument on your part, but there is still some tendency to do that among Christian voters. Why? It's the taking of a human life. Do you think that's not important to our God, who created us and gave us life?
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Old 09-25-2020, 10:34 AM   #6064
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Abortion: the only word that can make followers of Jesus vote against everything Jesus ever talked about because of one issue that Jesus never talked about.
Abortion is murder. Every writer in scripture talked about that. Jesus too!

And "vote against everything Jesus ever talked about?" Huh? Examples?

Is this supposed to be an intelligent response to something?
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Old 09-25-2020, 11:23 AM   #6065
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Abortion is murder. Every writer in scripture talked about that. Jesus too!

And "vote against everything Jesus ever talked about?" Huh? Examples?

Is this supposed to be an intelligent response to something?
Got to hand it to you Ohio you know your Bible! Where does Jesus say that abortion is murder?
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Old 09-25-2020, 11:41 AM   #6066
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Got to hand it to you Ohio you know your Bible! Where does Jesus say that abortion is murder?
I might not address this as adroitly as Ohio may, but it's a simple 2 + 2 thing, right? The taking of a human life is considered what?

Ungodly liberal thinking has sought to twist this simplicity and keeps telling us over & over & over that it's not the taking of a human life (and it's a right to do so) - more like squishing an amoeba I guess . . .
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Old 09-25-2020, 11:42 AM   #6067
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Got to hand it to you Ohio you know your Bible! Where does Jesus say that abortion is murder?
Where does the Bible say that it is "murder" when killed with a shotgun?

Stupid word games. Murder is when your actions cause another person to die, apart from self-defense. Goodness, even animals nowadays have more rights than the unborn.

It's not that hard to understand zeek. You're a smart guy.
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Old 09-25-2020, 11:52 AM   #6068
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I might not address this as adroitly as Ohio may, but it's a simple 2 + 2 thing, right? The taking of a human life is considered what?

Ungodly liberal thinking has sought to twist this simplicity and keeps telling us over & over & over that it's not the taking of a human life - more like squishing an amoeba I guess . . .
But this "amoeba" has human hands, a human face, human fingerprints, human dna, human heartbeat, human life, and a human soul created by God.

Ever study the so-called "science" presented at Roe to the SCOTUS? They totally deceived the court. Their pictures were fraudulent. Their data was deceptive. Their presentation was a total lie. Just ask Norma McCorvey, the so-called "Roe." Her story is telling. Worst laws in history of the US, worse even than the Dred Scott decision of 1857 because most slaves at least got to live, whereas the aborted unborn never got that chance.
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Old 09-25-2020, 10:33 PM   #6069
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Where does the Bible say that it is "murder" when killed with a shotgun?

Stupid word games. Murder is when your actions cause another person to die, apart from self-defense. Goodness, even animals nowadays have more rights than the unborn.

It's not that hard to understand zeek. You're a smart guy.
No! no! no! I really want to know where every writer of the books of the Bible spoke out against abortion.

Bro Ohio, you made the claim. Back it up. At least give me a few examples.
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Old 09-25-2020, 10:46 PM   #6070
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No! no! no! I really want to know where every writer of the books of the Bible spoke out against abortion.

Bro Ohio, you made the claim. Back it up. At least give me a few examples.
The sixth commandment, often repeated in the Bible.
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Old 09-26-2020, 08:41 AM   #6071
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Ohio's point is it doesn't spell-out all the ways murder happens, it's just murder. One can be murdered by poisoning, by an axe, by knife, by gunfire, by strangulations, by thrusting another into the vacuum of outer space or by yanking someone out of the womb, etc. & etc.

The Bible doesn't need to say "Thou shalt not kill your unborn child;" it just needs to say, "Thou shalt not murder."
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Old 09-26-2020, 09:24 AM   #6072
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Ohio's point is it doesn't spell-out all the ways murder happens, it's just murder. One can be murdered by poisoning, by an axe, by knife, by gunfire, by strangulations, by thrusting another into the vacuum of outer space or by yanking someone out of the womb, etc. & etc.

The Bible doesn't need to say "Thou shalt not kill your unborn child;" it just needs to say, "Thou shalt not murder."
Thanks for the "amplified" version, as if it was really needed. Some here are merely straining at gnats (show me the word abortion in the Bible) while passing camels (unlimited abortion rights and infanticide for all.)

I for one gave up on expecting abortion to ever be outlawed. The Democrats merely use it to freak out their base, among other things. The SCOTUS actually view their rulings as settled law, and part of the Constitution. I understand that Planned Parenthood v. Casey 1992 rulings by SCOTUS are even more difficult to overturn than Roe v. Wade. All of the Jurists voting to uphold that decision were appointed by Republicans. What does that tell you?

Originalist constitutional judges are needed to preserve our Republic on a vast array of issues. Allowing un-elected progressive Judges with a life-time tenure just about guarantees our nations demise, since they can construct anything they wish on sinking sand. Consider our national "heroine" RBG who just passed away: she was not "canonized" while fighting for all Americans and the rule of law, rather she fought for "progressive women" and select minorities. But what about unborn women, who exceed 50% of abortions, who fights for them?
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Old 09-26-2020, 09:34 AM   #6073
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No! no! no! I really want to know where every writer of the books of the Bible spoke out against abortion.

Bro Ohio, you made the claim. Back it up. At least give me a few examples.
And let me jump forward to the next step of our discussion, so you can be prepared. If the unborn cannot be "murdered" because they are not "persons," then you automatically justify genocide around the world. Did not Hitler declare the Jews, Gypsies, and Gays to be non-persons, and thus terminating them was not murder? Did not the SCOTUS Dred Scott Decision of 1857 determine that blacks were non-persons, and thus killing them was not murder? For the same reason we fight for blacks and for Jews, we must fight for the unborn.

We can never use our personal "choice" to justify the demise of another. What a frightening history that has been. All of our personal "rights" have limits, and must by law end when another life is threatened.
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Old 09-26-2020, 04:00 PM   #6074
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And let me jump forward to the next step of our discussion, so you can be prepared. If the unborn cannot be "murdered" because they are not "persons," then you automatically justify genocide around the world. Did not Hitler declare the Jews, Gypsies, and Gays to be non-persons, and thus terminating them was not murder? Did not the SCOTUS Dred Scott Decision of 1857 determine that blacks were non-persons, and thus killing them was not murder? For the same reason we fight for blacks and for Jews, we must fight for the unborn.

We can never use our personal "choice" to justify the demise of another. What a frightening history that has been. All of our personal "rights" have limits, and must by law end when another life is threatened.
I'll give it to you. You sure can make an outlandish claim, and then dodge weave and dance when avoiding backing up your claim ... and then making a more outlandish claim that, a woman aborting her baby is like burning 6 million Jews in ovens.

So I guess you can't find even one book in the Bible that speaks against abortion, and it was asinine and cult like thinking to make the claim.
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Old 09-26-2020, 04:48 PM   #6075
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So I guess you can't find even one book in the Bible that speaks against abortion, and it was asinine and cult like thinking to make the claim.
No mention of abortion murders or shotgun murders in one OT book I know of . . . So how about where children are offered as sacrifices to idols in the OT?
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Old 09-26-2020, 06:11 PM   #6076
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I'll give it to you. You sure can make an outlandish claim, and then dodge weave and dance when avoiding backing up your claim ... and then making a more outlandish claim that, a woman aborting her baby is like burning 6 million Jews in ovens.

So I guess you can't find even one book in the Bible that speaks against abortion, and it was asinine and cult like thinking to make the claim.
Talk about dodging, weaving, twisting, dancing, and distorting!! That's your specialty! Like you say, "yer a peach!"

We are talking about close to One Million beautiful unborn children of God slaughtered in the womb every year! The same number as the holocaust roughly every six years! Yet you say only one woman has aborted her baby. It's more like one aborted baby every 30 seconds, every hour, and every day of the year. That's real science, my friend. Math too.

Asinine and cult like thinking?
Aren't those classic ad hominems?

Why don't you address my points? Why do you dodge the issues? What are you afraid of? Why are you complicit with murder? Aren't you part of the coverup?

Murder is taking the life of another. Is that too hard for you to understand? Perhaps too much cognitive dissonance going on?
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Old 09-26-2020, 08:27 PM   #6077
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We are talking about close to One Million beautiful unborn children of God slaughtered in the womb every year! The same number as the holocaust roughly every six years! Yet you say only one woman has aborted her baby. It's more like one aborted baby every 30 seconds, every hour, and every day of the year.
And where's your dog in the fight? Have you produced a unwanted baby?

Still ... what book?
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Old 09-27-2020, 12:31 AM   #6078
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And where's your dog in the fight? Have you produced a unwanted baby?
Huh? So ... Let me get this straight ...

Since I was not aborted personally, I am not allowed to speak up on their behalf?

That makes as much sense as a Progressive Insurance commercial.
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Old 09-27-2020, 08:21 AM   #6079
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And where's your dog in the fight? Have you produced a unwanted baby?

Still ... what book?
Am I a persona non grata here? (I know you and Ohio are all caught up in this back-n-forth thing among yourselves, but . . .)

Any way, I answered your question in post 6075. And then I asked you a question.
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Old 09-27-2020, 04:30 PM   #6080
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No mention of abortion murders or shotgun murders in one OT book I know of . . . So how about where children are offered as sacrifices to idols in the OT?
Still no book ... but you make a point, at least. But it's not the same at all

Here's a verse that applies ... God prescribes bitter water to abort a baby : Numbers 5:22

Lev. 27:6 - A person is a person after birth
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Old 09-28-2020, 04:23 AM   #6081
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Still no book ... but you make a point, at least. But it's not the same at all

Here's a verse that applies ... God prescribes bitter water to abort a baby : Numbers 5:22

Lev. 27:6 - A person is a person after birth
What a joke! Go read those verses again.
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Old 09-28-2020, 11:59 AM   #6082
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What a joke! Go read those verses again.
I read them before posting them. Of course, as usual, there's the matter of interpretation.

The bitter water story was obvious. She cheated and got pregnant. So time for an abortion.

Leviticus wasn't as clear. But it's in the Bible, as to the value of a child.
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Old 09-28-2020, 12:51 PM   #6083
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I read them before posting them. Of course, as usual, there's the matter of interpretation.

The bitter water story was obvious. She cheated and got pregnant. So time for an abortion.

Leviticus wasn't as clear. But it's in the Bible, as to the value of a child.
So when you find some twisted interpretation of scripture that suits you, you now believe the Bible?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


God has formed us in the womb, making us an altogether new person.

Jeremiah 1.5: "Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you. Before you were born, I set you apart."

Galatians 1.15: "But when God, who had set me apart even from my mother’s womb."

Psalm 139:13: "For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb."
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Old 09-28-2020, 05:37 PM   #6084
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So when you find some twisted interpretation of scripture that suits you, you now believe the Bible?
Whoops. I thought I was talking to a Bible believer. My bad.

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God has formed us in the womb, making us an altogether new person.

Jeremiah 1.5: "Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you. Before you were born, I set you apart."
So your against abortion before conception? I've been saying that it is the males fault for unwanted babies. So why do you only want to control women's bodies, and not men's bodies? Only misogynists think that way. Are you so strong against abortion because you are a very strong misogynist? Is that why you strongly want to control women's bodies? Do you belong to The People Praise Catholic cult?

Quote:
Galatians 1.15: "But when God, who had set me apart even from my mother’s womb."
So Paul claims to be more special to God than everyone else? That's a huge ego. And there's plenty of evidence that Paul was a misogynist.

Quote:
Psalm 139:13: "For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb."
So God can just as easily abort the inward parts with miscarriages. God does that way too often.

Seems your obsession against abortion is way stronger than God's. You must have Paul's ego, as well as his shameful misogyny.
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Old 09-28-2020, 07:28 PM   #6085
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So why do you only want to control women's bodies, and not men's bodies? Only misogynists think that way. Are you so strong against abortion because you are a very strong misogynist? Is that why you strongly want to control women's bodies? Do you belong to The People Praise Catholic cult?
Besides your continual accusations and name-calling, your misguided comments expose a vicious hatred of the most innocent and vulnerable among us -- the unborn.

No one is "controlling" women's bodies. We are protecting them. We are protecting the precious lives within them. We want every one of them to have the opportunity to enjoy life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

If the mother is unwilling or unable to raise the unborn child, there are plenty of loving and caring adoptive parents willing to take her place.

Your way is murder. By supporting abortion, you are complicit in premeditated murder. Repent!
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Old 09-29-2020, 12:20 AM   #6086
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Besides your continual accusations and name-calling, your misguided comments expose a vicious hatred of the most innocent and vulnerable among us -- the unborn.
If they are not born they are not among us.

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No one is "controlling" women's bodies. We are protecting them.
There's lots of women that disagree with you.

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We are protecting the precious lives within them. We want every one of them to have the opportunity to enjoy life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
I think that women have ultimate say in the matter. It is their bodies. Not yours. Unless you've produced the baby, it's none of your business.

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If the mother is unwilling or unable to raise the unborn child, there are plenty of loving and caring adoptive parents willing to take her place.
If you feel so concerned, have you adopted the unwanted babies?

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Your way is murder. By supporting abortion, you are complicit in premeditated murder. Repent!
Oh knock it off with your self-righteous repent.

You seem to only hear what you think in your head. I've mentioned in the past that I'm not for abortion. I'm for the choice of the expecting mother. Just because I'm not for you to make that choice, doesn't mean I'm for abortion.
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Old 09-29-2020, 05:05 AM   #6087
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If they are not born they are not among us.

I think that women have ultimate say in the matter. It is their bodies. Not yours. Unless you've produced the baby, it's none of your business.
God our Creator has told us plainly that the unborn in the womb are wonderfully made by Him and loved by Him. God "lends" the children to their parents. From conception they are most definitely "among us" to be loved and cared for.

You cannot overrule the ways of our Creator with a few barbaric thoughts. That's just like justifying Hitler's genocide of Jews because you agreed they were not real persons, and then telling me it's none of my business because I never lived in Europe.

The unborn do not have their mother's bodies. They have their own special and unique bodies. If the unborn were their mother's bodies, then they would share the same DNA. But they don't. That alone is scientific proof that the unborn have their own bodies. You believe in science, don't you?

You do believe that taking another's life is murder, don't you?
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Old 09-29-2020, 08:31 AM   #6088
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For some reason this year I got lots of Text messages from my state Democratic Apparatus thinking I am "Mark, a Democrat." So I play along with them as "Mark, a Bernie Bro." Not to deceive anyone, but to understand their thinking.

Every single concern I have mentioned about Biden is just dismissed as RWTP's (right wing talking points.) Standard answer. No rebuttal info. It's amazing just how fearful these folks are of facts, and how void they are of actual news stories and historical events. They filter out everything but the official Democratic spin. They seem to have rejected all critical thinking. A while back, Biden was bad, now Biden is good.

On the contrary, all my Republican friends are thoroughly aware of Trump's shortcomings and failures, being constantly bombarded by them. I definitely think it's better to know all the facts, and make careful decisions, than to let your mind live in some hermetically sealed cry-o-vac package, and just believe what you are told.
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Old 09-29-2020, 08:49 AM   #6089
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The whole abortion thing seems to come down to these two views:

Some believe the choice of the mother takes all priority and is an utmost right;

Some believe the life of the child takes all priority and is an utmost right.


And apparently the twain shall never meet. But either you chose one or the other . . .
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Old 09-29-2020, 02:08 PM   #6090
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God our Creator has told us plainly that the unborn in the womb are wonderfully made by Him and loved by Him. God "lends" the children to their parents. From conception they are most definitely "among us" to be loved and cared for.

You cannot overrule the ways of our Creator with a few barbaric thoughts. That's just like justifying Hitler's genocide of Jews because you agreed they were not real persons, and then telling me it's none of my business because I never lived in Europe.

The unborn do not have their mother's bodies. They have their own special and unique bodies. If the unborn were their mother's bodies, then they would share the same DNA. But they don't. That alone is scientific proof that the unborn have their own bodies. You believe in science, don't you?

You do believe that taking another's life is murder, don't you?
There is no hope of this ever going anywhere. Either adopt unwanted babies or shut up.
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Old 09-29-2020, 06:02 PM   #6091
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There is no hope of this ever going anywhere. Either adopt unwanted babies or shut up.
I see you are not the moderator any more.

Does that allow you to be nasty to others for having a different viewpoint?

Why are you so loving and tolerant to the LGBTQWERTY, agnostic, atheistic community, but so intolerant and nasty at times to the evangelical Christian community?

Your biased attitudes are so readily obvious. Or am I the outlier here?
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Old 10-03-2020, 09:20 AM   #6092
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What's wrong with this narrative?


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Old 10-03-2020, 09:24 AM   #6093
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Prior to the debate in Cleveland in a hot mic moment ...


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Old 10-05-2020, 07:09 PM   #6094
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Our next president ?


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Old 10-05-2020, 07:36 PM   #6095
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One month to go.....
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Old 10-05-2020, 10:31 PM   #6096
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One month to go.....
Many are predicting that the election results will never be finalized.

2020 may make the "hanging chads" of 2000 look like nothing at all.
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Old 10-06-2020, 09:39 AM   #6097
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This weekend on a stretch of road, we saw a series of perhaps a dozen small signs along the side. The messages included things like:

Save the Planet
Black Lives Matter
Healthcare for All
Strong Working Class
Green Initiatives
Integrity & Truth
Happiness & Utopia*
And lastly: Biden & Harris

*Okay, may have made this one up, but something like it . . .
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Old 10-07-2020, 07:16 PM   #6098
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This weekend on a stretch of road, we saw a series of perhaps a dozen small signs along the side. The messages included things like:

Save the Planet
Black Lives Matter
Healthcare for All
Strong Working Class
Green Initiatives
Integrity & Truth
Happiness & Utopia*
And lastly: Biden & Harris

*Okay, may have made this one up, but something like it . . .
There's a certain billboard along I-5 in Chehallis, wa. I wonder what is says. "Imagine an iconic picture of Uncle Sam with a right-leaning message."
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Old 10-07-2020, 07:19 PM   #6099
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Many are predicting that the election results will never be finalized.
Probably why the orange badman wants ACB confirmed in 2020. As a counter to the left-leaning playbook.
Still doesn't the electoral college meet December 14 to cast their official votes?
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Old 10-13-2020, 01:55 PM   #6100
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So I'm sitting here looking at my mail-in ballot. I got all the boxes checked except the one for president. The question is: Do I vote for Trump or against what all Biden and the liberals stand for these days?
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Old 10-13-2020, 05:56 PM   #6101
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So I'm sitting here looking at my mail-in ballot. I got all the boxes checked except the one for president. The question is: Do I vote for Trump or against what all Biden and the liberals stand for these days?
Have you seen what open borders did to destroy Tucson?
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Old 10-14-2020, 08:13 AM   #6102
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Have you seen what open borders did to destroy Tucson?
We go to Tucson from time to time, but I can't say I've seen it firsthand. Personally, I'm all for having a well-controlled border as it only makes too much common sense. It's like a real "duh" to me.

Does that make me a racist?

So my comment about who to vote for, in case you missed it, as that irregardless (my grandfather's word) it's a vote for Trump. Even my wife, who really doesn't like Trump much at all as a person, said she is frightened more by the intense socialism she sees that the democrats will bring!
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Old 10-14-2020, 08:51 AM   #6103
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Even my wife, who really doesn't like Trump much at all as a person, said she is frightened more by the intense socialism she sees that the democrats will bring!
I view Trump like a soldier in a war. He stinks, he needs a shower, he swears, he needs some manners, he's impatient, he yells at people, he has a big mouth, he has guns, at times he's frightening to kids, and ... at times he even asks God for help.

But he loves our country, he's protecting us, he'a patriot, he didn't have to volunteer for this army, but he did. He's fighting so we can be safe, have jobs, and be free to live our lives.
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Old 10-14-2020, 09:55 AM   #6104
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I view Trump like a soldier in a war. He stinks, he needs a shower, he swears, he needs some manners, he's impatient, he yells at people, he has a big mouth, he has guns, at times he's frightening to kids, and ... at times he even asks God for help.

But he loves our country, he's protecting us, he'a patriot, he didn't have to volunteer for this army, but he did. He's fighting so we can be safe, have jobs, and be free to live our lives.
Ya know, that's an interesting analogy! I liken him sometimes to Churchill, who was gruff, liked to drink and smoke cigars, said many things that weren't nice, polite or politically correct, etc. Like Churchill, he may be voted out after fighting the war.

I voted for Trump the first time because he was an outsider, and I was fed-up with politicians (from both sides) and business as usual from the career politicians.

My dad was amazed that friends of his proclaimed loudly to him that "Trump has done nothing." And that is right - he has done nothing to further the liberal agenda. These friends also think he is the antichrist (though they aren't religious themselves).
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Old 10-14-2020, 12:05 PM   #6105
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My dad was amazed that friends of his proclaimed loudly to him that "Trump has done nothing." And that is right - he has done nothing to further the liberal agenda. These friends also think he is the antichrist (though they aren't religious themselves).
I agree with your dad, that watching the news* these days, hearing nothing at all good about Trump, one would tend to believe such a statement made by his friends.

But if "Trump has done nothing," then neither can he be guilty of initiating nuclear war, colluding with the Russians, Ukrainian Quid Pro Quo, anti-semitism, feminism, racism, xenophobic, homophobic, and white supremacy crimes.

Can't have it both ways.


*(i.e. e.g. the big media 7 of CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, NBC, WaPo, NYT)
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Old 11-02-2020, 05:34 PM   #6106
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Can someone help me? I'm trying to figure this one out.

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Old 11-03-2020, 08:21 AM   #6107
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Headline says 77% fear violence from the election. Our friends, neighbors and relatives are expressing fear, regardless of whether they lean left or right, and this is affecting their behaviors (hunkering down at home, etc.).

I just declare that He's got this! Regardless of the election turnout, I am at peace, because "the battle is the Lord's." He knows the long game and knows what is needed for His return. He is not slack concerning His promises, but desiring that all come to Him to be saved. Therefore, we must wait patiently to see the salvation of our loving God!

God is the God of calamity (Isa 45:7), but not the God of confusion (1 Cor 14:33), therefore we look away to Jesus!
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Old 11-04-2020, 11:00 AM   #6108
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At 11:00 AM Nov. 4th we are awaiting the counts to see who the Electoral College will choose . . .

I was listening to Steve Gregg, a national Christian radio person yesterday, who was talking with different ones calling in about the election. One caller was going on how she couldn't vote for Trump because he was so abrasive, etc. Steve told her voting for president was akin to hiring a CEO to run a large organization. The person may have this or that going for or against them in their personality, but the bottom-line was whether they could be trusted to run the organization in a way that would cause it to prosper, and not to run it into the ground. Steve believed the Democrats will take the country hard into socialism, and therefore run it into the ground, whereas Trump would not. (Steve also big on pro-life . . .)

This got me to thinking (oh no!). Regardless who we vote for, we are really voting Adam into office. Adam will, and surely is, running this whole thing (the country & world) into the ground. I think it's just perhaps trying to figure out who might do this a little more slowly . . .
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Old 11-04-2020, 11:25 AM   #6109
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At 11:00 AM Nov. 4th we are awaiting the counts to see who the Electoral College will choose . . .
When they stopped counting and sent everybody home last night, Trump was leading.

This morning they found just enough Biden votes to win WI, MI, NC, and PA.

I have never seen the vote counting in big cities lag behind rural precincts. How did this happen?
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Old 11-07-2020, 12:01 PM   #6110
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So here we are 4 days past election day, waiting . . . humans don't like to wait . . . we have little in the way of inherent patience I think. (and everyone is spreading fear, telling us what dastardly might happen if the other side wins)

So let me say, if Biden/Harris win - PRAISE THE LORD!!! If Trump/Pense win - PRAISE THE LORD!!!

In other words, in everything rejoice. Why? HE'S GOT THIS! The "King of Kings & Lord of Lords" isn't just a title - it's who He is!

No matter what happens in the day-to-day affairs of this life, I've read the end of the book and guess what? GOD WINS & WE THEREFORE WIN!!!

It's like sheep watching a master playing a big chess game. They have no idea what is going on. Therefore we must trust our wise, Master Shephard - HE'S GOT THIS! Like sheep, we're lucky if we see one, or maybe two moves ahead in this thing (if He has gifted us with such wisdom).

I think I'd like a T-shirt with some sheep standing around watching a chess board, and underneath the caption would say, "HE'S GOT THIS!"


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Old 11-07-2020, 09:29 PM   #6111
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if Biden/Harris win - PRAISE THE LORD!!!
if Biden/Harris win - PRAISE THE LORD!!!
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Old 11-08-2020, 07:36 AM   #6112
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if Biden/Harris win - PRAISE THE LORD!!!
Amen! Baaaah! Baaah! (said the dumb sheep)
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Old 11-09-2020, 12:55 PM   #6113
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Well, IMHO I must say that Kamala is the very best looking VP (elect - tentatively) we've ever had!

Some friends of ours said they figure it will be about six months before she assumes the POTUS position, through whatever means. Maybe we should start a poll - my WAG guess it'll be closer to a year if/when that happens.

But regardless if this happens or not - PRAISE THE LORD . . . HE'S GOT THIS!

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Old 11-09-2020, 03:53 PM   #6114
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There is no hope of this ever going anywhere. Either adopt unwanted babies or shut up.
Having read your posts for a few years now, it takes hellish statements from you to make my jaw drop. But that's exactly what your posts on abortion have done. I'm speechless.

Luke 1 speaks of John the Baptist being filled with the Holy Spirit even before he was born:

Luke 1:15
for he will be great in the sight of the Lord. He is never to take wine or other fermented drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even before he is born.

Strange thing to say of a non-person clump of cells.

Jeremiah 20 speaks of being "killed in the womb"

Jeremiah 20:17
For he did not kill me in the womb, with my mother as my grave, her womb enlarged forever.

Yes, if you are in the womb, it is still being "killed". It is still murder.

I'm loathe to spend any time speaking of God or the Bible to you after reading your spitting on both in the LGBTQ thread, but this post is for anyone else reading.

Yes, it is murder before the point of birth.
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Old 11-09-2020, 10:04 PM   #6115
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Having read your posts for a few years now, it takes hellish statements from you to make my jaw drop. But that's exactly what your posts on abortion have done. I'm speechless.

Luke 1 speaks of John the Baptist being filled with the Holy Spirit even before he was born:

Luke 1:15
for he will be great in the sight of the Lord. He is never to take wine or other fermented drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even before he is born.

Strange thing to say of a non-person clump of cells.

Jeremiah 20 speaks of being "killed in the womb"

Jeremiah 20:17
For he did not kill me in the womb, with my mother as my grave, her womb enlarged forever.

Yes, if you are in the womb, it is still being "killed". It is still murder.

I'm loathe to spend any time speaking of God or the Bible to you after reading your spitting on both in the LGBTQ thread, but this post is for anyone else reading.

Yes, it is murder before the point of birth.
How many unwanted babies have you adopted?
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Old 11-10-2020, 02:31 AM   #6116
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How many unwanted babies have you adopted?
She is now a medical officer in the military with her own family.

Definitely not "unwanted."
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Old 11-10-2020, 08:50 AM   #6117
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She is now a medical officer in the military with her own family.

Definitely not "unwanted."
Great. You've done your part. Now all you have to do is, stop using the Bible to control women's bodies.
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Old 11-10-2020, 09:19 AM   #6118
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Great. You've done your part. Now all you have to do is, stop using the Bible to control women's bodies.
Does a woman, in God's eyes, have a right to kill herself?
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Old 11-10-2020, 09:50 AM   #6119
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Does a woman, in God's eyes, have a right to kill herself?
No but the analogy is incorrect on so many levels. Other’s cant control what a woman does with her body. Others cant decide for her. The baby comes out of the woman’s body. The baby before conception is part of the woman’s body. The baby may be born out of wedlock (raped by a man). This unwanted baby will have a hard life in the foster care system, more prone to crime etc. Those with congenital diseases will suffer more than if aborted. Best is to measure amount of suffering if the baby is born and if the baby werent born. A huge family with many babies with not enough resources to take care of them- higher rates of poverty, mental health illness, stress on family and parents, divorce rate goes up, child neglect and abuse goes up due to stress of having to take care of so many children, alcoholism, drug abuse goes up. Mentally retarded babies grow up being bullied and in criminal justice system more times than healthy babies.

My aunt made the right decision to abort a baby with down syndrome. That would have caused low quality of life for both the baby and the family. My wife’s parents did the opposite. They kept her deaf and mute sister. She is living a lower quality of life and made my wife’s mom so stressful she passed away early. on top of that, her parents had to escape extreme bullying and life threatening situations due to people in Saudi Arabia’s attitudes towards the disabled, which led my wive’s family to illegally enter the United States for a better life for that sister. They had a new struggle being undocumented- low wages with managers taking advantage of them, low level of health care, sister had to go to porn industry to make ends meet.

If the man wants to decide what to do with the baby, they should stop “accidently” making women pregnant if they dont have the financial and mental health resources or healthy emotional capacity to take care of the baby.
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Old 11-10-2020, 09:54 AM   #6120
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Great. You've done your part. Now all you have to do is, stop using the Bible to control women's bodies.
The unborn child, more than half of them females, are not part of the mother's body. Is this too hard to understand? We can protect the unborn without controlling any woman.

The unborn child has its own body, its own arms and legs, its own eyes and ears, its own heart beat, its own fingerprints, its own DNA, its own soul, its own personality. It's body is completely separate from the mother's body.

Why don't you provide "women's rights" to these unborn female children? Isn't abortion "sexist" by killing girls, and "racist" by killing unborn minorities? Didn't Sanger the founder of Planned Parenthood intend to use abortion to eliminate all African Americans? And what gives you the right to tell me to stop using the Bible? To stop trying to protect the most vulnerable and innocent of all?

Trapped said your comments were "hellish." Your running anti-Christian commentary has become quite sardonic towards what was your own former life in Christ.
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Old 11-10-2020, 10:15 AM   #6121
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No but the analogy is incorrect on so many levels. Other’s cant control what a woman does with her body. Others cant decide for her. The baby comes out of the woman’s body. The baby before conception is part of the woman’s body. The baby may be born out of wedlock (raped by a man). This unwanted baby will have a hard life in the foster care system, more prone to crime etc. Those with congenital diseases will suffer more than if aborted. Best is to measure amount of suffering if the baby is born and if the baby werent born. A huge family with many babies with not enough resources to take care of them- higher rates of poverty, mental health illness, stress on family and parents, divorce rate goes up, child neglect and abuse goes up due to stress of having to take care of so many children, alcoholism, drug abuse goes up. Mentally retarded babies grow up being bullied and in criminal justice system more times than healthy babies.

My aunt made the right decision to abort a baby with down syndrome. That would have caused low quality of life for both the baby and the family. My wife’s parents did the opposite. They kept her deaf and mute sister. She is living a lower quality of life and made my wife’s mom so stressful she passed away early. on top of that, her parents had to escape extreme bullying and life threatening situations due to people in Saudi Arabia’s attitudes towards the disabled, which led my wive’s family to illegally enter the United States for a better life for that sister. They had a new struggle being undocumented- low wages with managers taking advantage of them, low level of health care, sister had to go to porn industry to make ends meet.

If the man wants to decide what to do with the baby, they should stop “accidently” making women pregnant if they dont have the financial and mental health resources or healthy emotional capacity to take care of the baby.
Yes, but . . . see Ohio's last post.
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Old 11-10-2020, 10:15 AM   #6122
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The unborn child, more than half of them females, are not part of the mother's body. Is this too hard to understand? We can protect the unborn without controlling any woman.

The unborn child has its own body, its own arms and legs, its own eyes and ears, its own heart beat, its own fingerprints, its own DNA, its own soul, its own personality. It's body is completely separate from the mother's body.

Why don't you provide "women's rights" to these unborn female children? Isn't abortion "sexist" by killing girls, and "racist" by killing unborn minorities? Didn't Sanger the founder of Planned Parenthood intend to use abortion to eliminate all African Americans? And what gives you the right to tell me to stop using the Bible? To stop trying to protect the most vulnerable and innocent of all?

Trapped said your comments were "hellish." Your running anti-Christian commentary has become quite sardonic towards what was your own former life in Christ.
The baby’s body is not completely separate from the mother’s body in that it sucks up all the mother’s nutrients and is like a parasite living inside the mother’s womb with constant flow of nutrients from the umbilical cord, more like semi symbiotic relationship. Personality is shaped after borth by enviornmental factors.
I agree with you that the baby is innocent. If we had more education on how heterosexuals make their decisions on whether to have a baby or not, we wouldnt be dealing with the need to abort. Unless you’re a woman Ohio, you will truly never understand being nine months pregnant with all the pain and suffering that comes with child reading AND emotional truama if the baby was from incest/rape, etc. and the postpartum depression that can result in a mother not caring for the baby, leading the baby to have more mental health issues and attachment issues down the line. If you dont know how period cramps work, then dont have any say in how you can ise the bible to justify making women suffer because they’ve suffered enough at the hands of a patriarchical machochistic society.
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Old 11-10-2020, 10:42 AM   #6123
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The baby’s body is not completely separate from the mother’s body in that it sucks up all the mother’s nutrients and is like a parasite living inside the mother’s womb with constant flow of nutrients from the umbilical cord, more like semi symbiotic relationship. Personality is shaped after borth by enviornmental factors.
I agree with you that the baby is innocent. If we had more education on how heterosexuals make their decisions on whether to have a baby or not, we wouldnt be dealing with the need to abort. Unless you’re a woman Ohio, you will truly never understand being nine months pregnant with all the pain and suffering that comes with child reading AND emotional truama if the baby was from incest/rape, etc. and the postpartum depression that can result in a mother not caring for the baby, leading the baby to have more mental health issues and attachment issues down the line. If you dont know how period cramps work, then dont have any say in how you can ise the bible to justify making women suffer because they’ve suffered enough at the hands of a patriarchical machochistic society.
Personality is also evident at or immediately after birth. Any parent can testify that "he/she came out [insert personality trait here]." After all, we're talking about a human being here.

A human being dependent upon another human being (i.e. baby siphoning off nutrients) doesn't mean in any way that it's not a separate human being. Just because there is a dependency or connection doesn't mean it's not a person with its own life. You know that.

The rape scenario is a specific percentage of the preceding events to abortion. It doesn't deal with many other scenarios. And while I don't think anyone here discounts the horror, pain, suffering, and trauma that comes from something as evil as rape, the logic being thrown around here is "I was raped, therefore I get to murder someone".

Doesn't work.

We should be looking at providing the support, care, counseling, belonging, and safety that a rape victim needs, rather than adding to the evil by capping the rape off with a murder.

If we say "Other’s cant control what a woman does with her body. Others cant decide for her" then we are deluding even ourselves. ALL laws determine what we can do with our body. The speed limit laws control how far I can press my foot down on an accelerator. The crosswalk lights determine if I walk or wait. The laws against murder determine whether or not I can pull the trigger of a weapon pointed at a person. We are not free to do whatever we want with our bodies no matter what. There are always boundaries.

Unsafe sex, sex outside of a stable marriage, premature sex, etc.....doesn't give anyone the right to murder the result of those mistaken actions. "You might be an inconvenience" or "you might have a hard life" or "you might have physical or mental difficulties" doesn't justify "I get to murder you". That is the exact same slide Hitler jumped down. Anyone who doesn't "cut it" dies.
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Old 11-10-2020, 10:44 AM   #6124
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The baby’s body is not completely separate from the mother’s body in that it sucks up all the mother’s nutrients and is like a parasite living inside the mother’s womb with constant flow of nutrients from the umbilical cord, more like semi symbiotic relationship. Personality is shaped after borth by enviornmental factors.
I agree with you that the baby is innocent. If we had more education on how heterosexuals make their decisions on whether to have a baby or not, we wouldnt be dealing with the need to abort. Unless you’re a woman Ohio, you will truly never understand being nine months pregnant with all the pain and suffering that comes with child reading AND emotional truama if the baby was from incest/rape, etc. and the postpartum depression that can result in a mother not caring for the baby, leading the baby to have more mental health issues and attachment issues down the line. If you dont know how period cramps work, then dont have any say in how you can ise the bible to justify making women suffer because they’ve suffered enough at the hands of a patriarchical machochistic society.
It is the height of arrogance to tell someone that they have no right to protect innocents just because they are men. If you won't listen to men about abortion, then you definitely don't listen to women either about abortion.

Do you have any idea what women go thru who have had an abortion? The lifelong guilt, remorse, and psychological trauma of killing that which was once life. Within them. All because they were told it was "inconvenient." Post-partum depression is nothing compared to the guilt some endure.

One of the kindest, most loving Moms I know was the result of a rape. Her rapist father was a black man. Her single mother then made an heroic choice for life. Today she is a doting grandmother who never once regretted her decision. This is what a loving God and Father can do!

Once a society decides to terminate "undesirable" life, that society declines. The decision to terminate other undesirables becomes that much easier. I should think that you would understand this, and change your perspective. Many countries view LGBT as "undesirable."

I don't think you understand what a "patriarchical machochistic society" looks like. Perhaps you should visit some Muslam country. Most have zero tolerance for gays. The same goes with socialist and communist countries. Go live in China and find out what the gay "social scorecard" is. Gays sometimes are murdered as a public example, and sometimes they just disappear. For you to consider the USA to be a "patriarchical machochistic society," is frankly just to believe pure propaganda, far far worse than any LC "Kool-Aid."
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Old 11-10-2020, 11:02 AM   #6125
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The unborn child, more than half of them females, are not part of the mother's body.
That's ignorance. Don't tell the women that. It happens in the woman's body, from the ovum onward. It's entirely the woman's body.
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Old 11-10-2020, 11:06 AM   #6126
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Thank you Ohio & Trapped - you are very good (gifted) at these kinds of exchanges regarding abortion fallacies! (much better than I am)
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Old 11-10-2020, 11:07 AM   #6127
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That's ignorance. Don't tell the women that. It happens in the woman's body, from the ovum onward. It's entirely the woman's body.
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Old 11-10-2020, 11:11 AM   #6128
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If the man wants to decide what to do with the baby, they should stop “accidently” making women pregnant if they dont have the financial and mental health resources or healthy emotional capacity to take care of the baby.
Oh no. Men want laws controlling women, but no thought to supporting legislation controlling men's bodies ; as in making it against the law for a man to make an unwanted baby. Prolife men just don't want to keep it in their pants.
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Old 11-10-2020, 12:45 PM   #6129
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Oh no. Men want laws controlling women, but no thought to supporting legislation controlling men's bodies ; as in making it against the law for a man to make an unwanted baby. Prolife men just don't want to keep it in their pants.
Both men and women, young and old, just want to protect innocent life!

Who says the unborn is "unwanted?" Did you ever ask the child if he or she wanted to be born? Did you ever talk to adoptive parents waiting for years to have a child to love? Who are you to play God and decide who is wanted, who is unwanted, who gets to live, and who has to die? What if one day the Progressives decide that you are no longer wanted? Perhaps then for the first time you will view us "pro-life conservatives" as your friends.

And there are endless laws "supporting legislation controlling men's bodies." We have paternity tests, child support laws, rape laws, protection from abuse laws, etc. Many, including some women, are convinced the deck is now stacked against men. Ever read stories about how women lure wealthy men into bed to hit the "jackpot" when it comes to child support? Didn't that just happen to Hunter Biden? Where is Hunter anyways?
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Old 11-10-2020, 12:48 PM   #6130
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That's ignorance. Don't tell the women that. It happens in the woman's body, from the ovum onward. It's entirely the woman's body.
Yes, within the woman's body. No, not her body.

And I don't have to tell women that. They know!
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Old 11-10-2020, 05:18 PM   #6131
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Yes, within the woman's body. No, not her body.

And I don't have to tell women that. They know!
It is true that 2000 years ago they thought that women were just incubators.
"Two and a half thousand years ago Hippocrates, the Father of Medicine, noted that conception followed the ejaculation of semen into women. ... There the argument rested for two millennia, during which educated European men justified the oppression of women on the grounds that they were merely incubators."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/...ncubators.html
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Old 11-10-2020, 06:20 PM   #6132
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I think I'm about done with the Alternative world of things here . . .
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Old 11-10-2020, 07:10 PM   #6133
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I think I'm about done with the Alternative world of things here . . .
You'll be missed ....
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Old 11-10-2020, 08:27 PM   #6134
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Yes, within the woman's body. No, not her body.

And I don't have to tell women that. They know!
The baby is made from the mother’s body. Eve came from Adam, Adam didnt have a say in how his rib was stolen. Typical Christians.
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Old 11-10-2020, 09:33 PM   #6135
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The baby is made from the mother’s body. Eve came from Adam, Adam didnt have a say in how his rib was stolen. Typical Christians.
Sounds like foolish spiritual gobbledygook.
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Old 11-10-2020, 09:48 PM   #6136
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Sounds like foolish spiritual gobbledygook.
It’s biology; where do you think the baby’s cells multiplied from? Pregnancy has a big toll on a wan’s body. If a pregant woman’s life is endangered, and one could be saved, would you save the innocent baby or the woman’s life?
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Old 11-10-2020, 10:43 PM   #6137
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Once a society decides to terminate "undesirable" life, that society declines. The decision to terminate other undesirables becomes that much easier. I should think that you would understand this, and change your perspective. Many countries view LGBT as "undesirable."

I don't think you understand what a "patriarchical machochistic society" looks like. Perhaps you should visit some Muslam country. Most have zero tolerance for gays. The same goes with socialist and communist countries. Go live in China and find out what the gay "social scorecard" is. Gays sometimes are murdered as a public example, and sometimes they just disappear. For you to consider the USA to be a "patriarchical machochistic society," is frankly just to believe pure propaganda, far far worse than any LC "Kool-Aid."
Look, I’m not advocating entirely for abortion. This needs to be looked on case by case. The moral thing is to minimize suffering for all parties, the kid, and the mother, and the family’s economical resources. Rape/incest also has an everlasting effect on a woman’s entire life. The kid grows up being ostracized, treated differently by the mother and her family. The baby daddy gets to run away from all the responsibility and leave the woman with the moral responsibility of raising the kid. Every time, the mother looks at the kid, she gets retraumatized by the event.

You automatically love to change the topic of discussion to LGBTQ whenever I’m around huh? Last time we were talking about crimes against transgendered people, you were like “all lives matter”, now you are pro-LGBTQ. I love how you’re maturing. I’ve lived in China btw. So lucky I was not killed or I wouldnt be having this discussion with you
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Old 11-10-2020, 10:55 PM   #6138
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Unsafe sex, sex outside of a stable marriage, premature sex, etc.....doesn't give anyone the right to murder the result of those mistaken actions. "You might be an inconvenience" or "you might have a hard life" or "you might have physical or mental difficulties" doesn't justify "I get to murder you". That is the exact same slide Hitler jumped down. Anyone who doesn't "cut it" dies.
This has to be taken like euthanization. If someone was suffering from cancer, wouldnt it be moral for that person to have the choice for legalized euthanization? The difference between Hitler’s murders and abortion is that Hitler caused widespread suffering. Abortion oftentimes mitigates suffering. We make the moral choice for the unborn child or innocent when we look at life’s circumstances and see if there are more pros and cons for the kid. (I’m up for adoption but the fact is most kids put up for adoption end up in foster care and group homes which are not the best, because I’ve worked in several. Unless the country has fixed its adoption and foster care system, I dont see why abortion cant be a secondary choice.)
Therefore the slippery slope in which abortion will lead to a houlocaust is not a neat point A to point B. Just like how legalizing same sex marriage does not lead to justification for pedophilia and other sexual immoralities that do not involve consent.
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Old 11-10-2020, 11:58 PM   #6139
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Personality is also evident at or immediately after birth. Any parent can testify that "he/she came out [insert personality trait here]." After all, we're talking about a human being here.

A human being dependent upon another human being (i.e. baby siphoning off nutrients) doesn't mean in any way that it's not a separate human being. Just because there is a dependency or connection doesn't mean it's not a person with its own life. You know that.

The rape scenario is a specific percentage of the preceding events to abortion. It doesn't deal with many other scenarios. And while I don't think anyone here discounts the horror, pain, suffering, and trauma that comes from something as evil as rape, the logic being thrown around here is "I was raped, therefore I get to murder someone".

Doesn't work.

We should be looking at providing the support, care, counseling, belonging, and safety that a rape victim needs, rather than adding to the evil by capping the rape off with a murder.

If we say "Other’s cant control what a woman does with her body. Others cant decide for her" then we are deluding even ourselves. ALL laws determine what we can do with our body. The speed limit laws control how far I can press my foot down on an accelerator. The crosswalk lights determine if I walk or wait. The laws against murder determine whether or not I can pull the trigger of a weapon pointed at a person. We are not free to do whatever we want with our bodies no matter what. There are always boundaries.

Unsafe sex, sex outside of a stable marriage, premature sex, etc.....doesn't give anyone the right to murder the result of those mistaken actions. "You might be an inconvenience" or "you might have a hard life" or "you might have physical or mental difficulties" doesn't justify "I get to murder you". That is the exact same slide Hitler jumped down. Anyone who doesn't "cut it" dies.
After reading this post it makes me wonder if you've ever had kids. Also, I don't think you've ever had to deal with women who wanted to have an abortion. Not to mention that some of what you say is nonsense.

I've had 3 kids, and had to bear much pressure on 2 of the mothers that wanted to abort. I can tell you without reservation that a woman can be very stubborn if they put their mind to it.

And y'all all can keep harping on it, and bring women's reproductive rights under government control, throwing women behind bars, but with abortion pills now available, and how to make them for underground use, the cat is already and clearly way out of the bag. Good luck with that. Plus, the court has made abortion legal.
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Old 11-11-2020, 06:23 AM   #6140
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It’s biology; where do you think the baby’s cells multiplied from? Pregnancy has a big toll on a wan’s body. If a pregant woman’s life is endangered, and one could be saved, would you save the innocent baby or the woman’s life?
You fabricate a hypothetical situation to justify millions of "convenience" murders? Pretty heartless.

According to your "biology," an unborn life has the same beginning and the same result as what you daily flush down the toilet.
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Old 11-11-2020, 06:25 AM   #6141
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Look, I’m not advocating entirely for abortion. This needs to be looked on case by case. The moral thing is to minimize suffering for all parties, the kid, and the mother, and the family’s economical resources. Rape/incest also has an everlasting effect on a woman’s entire life. The kid grows up being ostracized, treated differently by the mother and her family. The baby daddy gets to run away from all the responsibility and leave the woman with the moral responsibility of raising the kid. Every time, the mother looks at the kid, she gets retraumatized by the event.

You automatically love to change the topic of discussion to LGBTQ whenever I’m around huh? Last time we were talking about crimes against transgendered people, you were like “all lives matter”, now you are pro-LGBTQ. I love how you’re maturing. I’ve lived in China btw. So lucky I was not killed or I wouldnt be having this discussion with you
It's called perspective. Try it sometime.
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Old 11-11-2020, 08:17 AM   #6142
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You fabricate a hypothetical situation to justify millions of "convenience" murders? Pretty heartless.

According to your "biology," an unborn life has the same beginning and the same result as what you daily flush down the toilet.
I once fished one out of the toilet. Sometimes God performs an abortion. It's called a miscarriage. Take it up with him.
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Old 11-11-2020, 10:10 AM   #6143
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After reading this post it makes me wonder if you've ever had kids. Also, I don't think you've ever had to deal with women who wanted to have an abortion. Not to mention that some of what you say is nonsense.

I've had 3 kids, and had to bear much pressure on 2 of the mothers that wanted to abort. I can tell you without reservation that a woman can be very stubborn if they put their mind to it.

And y'all all can keep harping on it, and bring women's reproductive rights under government control, throwing women behind bars, but with abortion pills now available, and how to make them for underground use, the cat is already and clearly way out of the bag. Good luck with that. Plus, the court has made abortion legal.
Care to elaborate with reasoned and logical counter-arguments where my "nonsense" was?

Your reasoning seems to be "my wife was stubborn, therefore all women should be able to kill babies". As usual, I'm writing for the readers to see the rationale behind both sides.

The court making something legal doesn't make it right or not a sin. Doesn't mean we can't still talk about it here.
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Old 11-11-2020, 10:11 AM   #6144
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I once fished one out of the toilet. Sometimes God performs an abortion. It's called a miscarriage. Take it up with him.
Do you disagree that God is the unique one in the universe who has the right to take the life He created? When humans do it, it's murder, since that other person's life is not ours to take. God is the author of life and thus has the right to end it.

We discussed this exact thing on the LGBTQ thread. Or did this go in one ear and out the other too?
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Old 11-11-2020, 10:24 AM   #6145
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Care to elaborate with reasoned and logical counter-arguments where my "nonsense" was? As usual, I'm writing for the readers to see the rational behind both sides.

The court making something legal doesn't make it right or not a sin.
This hits at the core of the matter of abortion. As long as we can get it legalized, whether thru legislation or judicial activism, then it is all OK. But it's not.

Unfortunately, the healthy conscience of man/woman is connected to the law of God. He put "eternity in our heart," which aligns our moral compass with the nature of God. That's why so many girls suffer long term guilt after an abortion, but have you noticed that is a subject none are willing to respond to? It is only an orchestrated collection of calloused hearts, fueled by atheism, self-love, and drugs, that can reduce the murder of an unborn infant in the womb to an "inconvenience."
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Old 11-11-2020, 12:42 PM   #6146
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Care to elaborate with reasoned and logical counter-arguments where my "nonsense" was?
I really didn't want to get into it all.

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Your reasoning seems to be "my wife was stubborn, therefore all women should be able to kill babies".
A baby is a baby because it's born. That's when it has rights equal to its mom, and all the rest of us. Before that, it's the mom to be that has rights.

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The court making something legal doesn't make it right or not a sin.
Maybe you didn't catch it, and maybe I've failed to point out that I'm against abortion. I just think that the decision is up to the adult involved, who clearly, legally, has rights, that shouldn't be infringed. If it's sin, then that's between God and the one that aborts. Like you've pointed out, it's God's life. And He may not care as much as you. Have you ever considered that you might be jumping the gun on God?

And sorry for not elaborating on my nonsense statement. Maybe it will come up again.
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Old 11-11-2020, 12:59 PM   #6147
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A baby is a baby because it's born. That's when it has rights equal to its mom, and all the rest of us. Before that, it's the mom to be that has rights.
Since when does the rights of one deny the rights of another?

But you guys can't even get your own story straight. Before it was posted that as long as the unborn child is a "parasite" off the mother, drawing all subsistence from the mom, then it has no "rights." So the child can be killed up until it is weaned? Sounds a lot like VA Gov "Black Face" Northam.

What if we can get the unborn child on life support within the womb, then can the child have "rights?"
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Old 11-11-2020, 02:31 PM   #6148
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Since when does the rights of one deny the rights of another?

But you guys can't even get your own story straight. Before it was posted that as long as the unborn child is a "parasite" off the mother, drawing all subsistence from the mom, then it has no "rights." So the child can be killed up until it is weaned? Sounds a lot like VA Gov "Black Face" Northam.

What if we can get the unborn child on life support within the womb, then can the child have "rights?"
Ask the courts.
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Old 11-12-2020, 04:08 AM   #6149
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Since when does the rights of one deny the rights of another?"
My being above age 21 prevents my younger sister age 20 from drinking legally. just kidding..

Roe vs Wade does have some conditions though, like not aborting in third trimester or was that a previous law? Because it’s easier to get rid of a mass of cells than a full blown fetus.
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Old 11-12-2020, 07:45 AM   #6150
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Because it’s easier to get rid of a mass of cells than a full blown fetus.
From what I've heard out here those cells are a full blown baby. If only they could see what they are calling a baby.
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Old 11-12-2020, 07:59 PM   #6151
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How many fourteen and nine year olds will you have to sacrifice for a few newborns? Why make a big fuss about children who are never born when you treat the ones who have been so poorly? Like children locked in cages, separated from their families by Trump Administration and children trying to escape from gangs or dying in Mexico. Foster youth homes who have no say and no love under Social Services.

Also, forcing women to carry a rapist’s child is cruel. Forcing women to carry to term despite the knowledge they will suffer serious health complications (such as genetic disorders or rare diseases) is cruel.

True Christians are in a minority. Not many people genuinely follow God’s word.
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Old 11-12-2020, 08:41 PM   #6152
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How many fourteen and nine year olds will you have to sacrifice for a few newborns? Why make a big fuss about children who are never born when you treat the ones who have been so poorly? Like children locked in cages, separated from their families by Trump Administration and children trying to escape from gangs or dying in Mexico. Foster youth homes who have no say and no love under Social Services.

Also, forcing women to carry a rapist’s child is cruel. Forcing women to carry to term despite the knowledge they will suffer serious health complications (such as genetic disorders or rare diseases) is cruel.
Where do you get your info? You have been so deceived. It was the Obama Admin that erected those cages in order to protect children in custody at the border. That first (and famous) picture you saw was taken in 2014. Do investigate your facts before you post.

Your "justification" for abortion could also be summarized by the following letter:
Dear Love, it's a jungle out there. People die all the time. You could be struck by a drunk driver, or you could be a victim of random violence. There are thousands of cancers and diseases out there which could make the rest of your life so painful and miserable. You wouldn't want that to happen, would you? Or you could catch the Covid stage 3. So horrible.

So let me recommend that you end things right away. Why wait another day? Why should your life continue with so many dangers out there ready to get you? Please make the right "choice." By ending your own life soon, you might even be saving another. How dare you "inconvenience" others by being forced to care for you? You wouldn't want that would you? Wouldn't the world be a better place with more brave souls like you making the right "choice" today?

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Old 11-12-2020, 09:10 PM   #6153
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Where do you get your info? You have been so deceived. It was the Obama Admin that erected those cages in order to protect children in custody at the border. That first (and famous) picture you saw was taken in 2014. Do investigate your facts before you post.

Your "justification" for abortion could also be summarized by the following letter:
Dear Love, it's a jungle out there. People die all the time. You could be struck by a drunk driver, or you could be a victim of random violence. There are thousands of cancers and diseases out there which could make the rest of your life so painful and miserable. You wouldn't want that to happen, would you? Or you could catch the Covid stage 3. So horrible.

So let me recommend that you end things right away. Why wait another day? Why should your life continue with so many dangers out there ready to get you? Please make the right "choice." By ending your own life soon, you might even be saving another. How dare you "inconvenience" others by being forced to care for you? You wouldn't want that would you? Wouldn't the world be a better place with more brave souls like you making the right "choice" today?

So moronic it's funny.
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Old 11-13-2020, 06:27 AM   #6154
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So moronic it's funny.
Nothing moronic about the abortion slaughter of the innocent unborn everyday.

It's only funny when we apply the same standards to its proponents.
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Old 11-13-2020, 08:56 PM   #6155
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Where do you get your info? You have been so deceived. It was the Obama Admin that erected those cages in order to protect children in custody at the border. That first (and famous) picture you saw was taken in 2014. Do investigate your facts before you post.

Your "justification" for abortion could also be summarized by the following letter:
Dear Love, it's a jungle out there. People die all the time. You could be struck by a drunk driver, or you could be a victim of random violence. There are thousands of cancers and diseases out there which could make the rest of your life so painful and miserable. You wouldn't want that to happen, would you? Or you could catch the Covid stage 3. So horrible.

So let me recommend that you end things right away. Why wait another day? Why should your life continue with so many dangers out there ready to get you? Please make the right "choice." By ending your own life soon, you might even be saving another. How dare you "inconvenience" others by being forced to care for you? You wouldn't want that would you? Wouldn't the world be a better place with more brave souls like you making the right "choice" today?


https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...obama-adminis/

Lmao. Yes, Obama Administration did have those cages, but they weren’t in danger and they weren’t separated from families. If you look up official documents of Trump’s executive orders in Federal Register, it is already clear that he separated them. Not Obama Administration.

You’re so misinformed. You watch too much Fox News = Fake News

Sorry, but you’re just so ignorant. Boohoo, mama didn’t give you enough love? You’re just a bitter old man with not much life force left to go. Only in too deep with a book club written by men.
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Old 11-13-2020, 09:13 PM   #6156
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https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...obama-adminis/

Lmao. Yes, Obama Administration did have those cages, but they weren’t in danger and they weren’t separated from families. If you look up official documents of Trump’s executive orders in Federal Register, it is already clear that he separated them. Not Obama Administration.

You’re so misinformed. You watch too much Fox News = Fake News

Sorry, but you’re just so ignorant. Boohoo, mama didn’t give you enough love? You’re just a bitter old man with not much life force left to go. Only in too deep with a book club written by men.
Thank God your fact checkers and sources of truth are not written by men.
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Old 11-14-2020, 02:41 AM   #6157
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I have a general question for the men on this thread who support anti-abortion: What are your views concerning the soul- does it begin at the conception of the sperm and the egg, or once the baby is born, or somewhere in between? Now I have heard stories of people who have provided testimonials they swear they were consciously aware or have a distant memory of being in the “dark” and then having some memories of seeing a doctor’s face when they were born. I’m just wondering if your perceptions of the soul being there in the mass conglomeration of cells has anything to do with how your views on terminating a pregnancy. Personally, I feel I am more middle ground- if the fetus is in the first trimester, I dont see anything morally wrong with a woman deciding it is better for the baby if she is bringing it into a cruel environment, but at third trimester, thats when it gets tricky. And it is very wrong personally for abortion clinics to abort a fetus at full term or if the baby comes out crying, to let it die and suffer. Like that is murder. But it’s not murder if in a petri dish, for example IVF, for the glob of cells to be terminated.

https://youtu.be/yRA0KMCEP2o. here is a video on pro life vs pro choice. Both sides are civil and make good arguments, showing that abortion is not so much a black and white issue- personal experience has a lot to do with how one views the issue. Note: many of the people in the video are women, so its nice to have some female perspectives on the issue since they are the ones carrying the baby most of the time (unless you are trans)
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Old 11-14-2020, 07:58 AM   #6158
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I have a general question for the men on this thread who support anti-abortion: What are your views concerning the soul- does it begin at the conception of the sperm and the egg, or once the baby is born, or somewhere in between?
I believe the soul begins at conception. I don't view conception as merely biological, but also the moment that God breathes life, a soul into the unborn child. (Gen 2.7)

As far as legislation goes, I would like to see the child's heartbeat used as a marker for legality, with abortion illegal beyond that point. The heart beat of the unborn child is clearly and easily measurable.
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Old 11-14-2020, 09:55 AM   #6159
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Hey "Love".

If you're going to post further, you will have to register for membership. If, by chance, you are already registered, then I'm going to have ask you to sign in and post under your registered name. Thanks.

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Old 11-14-2020, 12:16 PM   #6160
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Sorry, but you’re just so ignorant. Boohoo, mama didn’t give you enough love? You’re just a bitter old man with not much life force left to go. Only in too deep with a book club written by men.
What's in us colors what we see. It seems you know bitterness. You might ask yourself why that is and if there's a harmful root of bitterness that needs dealt with inside you . . .
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Old 11-14-2020, 01:08 PM   #6161
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I believe the soul begins at conception. I don't view conception as merely biological, but also the moment that God breathes life, a soul into the unborn child. (Gen 2.7)
But the baby doesn't breath until it comes out. That's the breath that makes the baby a living soul.

Gen 2:7* And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.*
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Old 11-14-2020, 03:05 PM   #6162
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But the baby doesn't breath until it comes out. That's the breath that makes the baby a living soul.

Gen 2:7* And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.*
That was true for Adam and Eve who were created as adults, but not for the rest of us. Too many verses about God knowing us in the womb.
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Old 11-15-2020, 04:38 AM   #6163
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That was true for Adam and Eve who were created as adults, but not for the rest of us. Too many verses about God knowing us in the womb.
God knowing us in the womb, but my question is “when” in the womb because it’s a full nine months. Since you believe a woman cannot abort a baby once it has a heartbeat, then it would be about 5.5-6 weeks or one and a half months of first trimester that a woman can abort but not after. And it’s easy for technology nowadays but what if we had no technology and cant tell when the heartbeat occurs? What then?
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Old 11-15-2020, 04:57 AM   #6164
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What's in us colors what we see. It seems you know bitterness. You might ask yourself why that is and if there's a harmful root of bitterness that needs dealt with inside you . . .
I think you’ll have to forgive Love. From what I can psychoanalyze from Love’s retort to Ohio is that he/she means we can all have a little more love and compassion, including Ohio. . And that somehow, our deep seated outlooks on abortion can be framed from what we experienced as a child ourselves. It is natural for an adult who was abused/neglected as a child can have particular high emotional sensitivity and empathy to protect the unborn babies in the world because they can feel the helplessness that they themselves can relate to. And to have less compassion for the women because of how their mothers failed them.Now, all this happens on a subconscious level so you guys might not agree or not take what I say at face value, but that’s okay. I know we all probably have some “mommy issues”, hence why the subject of abortion is especially touchy and tensions can arise. Now I’m not sure your own experiences but this is interesting; maybe you and Ohio can take a look at what colors your own views about abortion. I know that for me, it’s inclusive to what I experienced from my aunt’s decision to abort her child with Down syndrome due to her decision not to leave the child suffering in a society that looks down upon and has not enough resources to help those with Down- Syndrome (I’m not talking about the U.S) and some friends’ experiences with abortion, not due to “convenience”, but due to consideration for the quality of life they feel they can provide for the child. So Anti-abortion/prolofers and pro-choice have more in common than you and I think. Ultimately, it boils down to less suffering for both the mother and child, just on different aspects and degrees.
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Old 11-15-2020, 06:38 AM   #6165
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God knowing us in the womb, but my question is “when” in the womb because it’s a full nine months. Since you believe a woman cannot abort a baby once it has a heartbeat, then it would be about 5.5-6 weeks or one and a half months of first trimester that a woman can abort but not after.

And it’s easy for technology nowadays but what if we had no technology and cant tell when the heartbeat occurs? What then?
Huh? You don't read very well. I don't believe any woman should ever abort her own unborn child. I have said this repeatedly. I also said that I support legislation that stops abortions after the unborn child's heart begins beating.

But ... what if the power grid goes down? What about a neutron EMP bomb? What if Biden is elected? What then? There is just no end to these "what about" games.
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Old 11-15-2020, 06:46 AM   #6166
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Hey "Love".

If you're going to post further, you will have to register for membership. If, by chance, you are already registered, then I'm going to have ask you to sign in and post under your registered name. Thanks.

-
Sounds to me like "Love" may be already registered and may have been busted for faking a second identity. Just a guess.

Either way, let me suggest that some other name be selected that is better suited to the poster's character than "Love."
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Old 11-15-2020, 06:51 AM   #6167
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I think you’ll have to forgive Love. From what I can psychoanalyze from Love’s retort to Ohio is that he/she means we can all have a little more love and compassion, including Ohio. . And that somehow, our deep seated outlooks on abortion can be framed from what we experienced as a child ourselves. It is natural for an adult who was abused/neglected as a child can have particular high emotional sensitivity and empathy to protect the unborn babies in the world because they can feel the helplessness that they themselves can relate to. And to have less compassion for the women because of how their mothers failed them.Now, all this happens on a subconscious level so you guys might not agree or not take what I say at face value, but that’s okay. I know we all probably have some “mommy issues”, hence why the subject of abortion is especially touchy and tensions can arise. Now I’m not sure your own experiences but this is interesting; maybe you and Ohio can take a look at what colors your own views about abortion. I know that for me, it’s inclusive to what I experienced from my aunt’s decision to abort her child with Down syndrome due to her decision not to leave the child suffering in a society that looks down upon and has not enough resources to help those with Down- Syndrome (I’m not talking about the U.S) and some friends’ experiences with abortion, not due to “convenience”, but due to consideration for the quality of life they feel they can provide for the child. So Anti-abortion/prolofers and pro-choice have more in common than you and I think. Ultimately, it boils down to less suffering for both the mother and child, just on different aspects and degrees.
I helped raise a Down-Syndrome child. That was never easy or convenient, but definitely rewarding, and the decision was never regretted because it was pleasing to God our Creator.
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Old 11-15-2020, 06:53 AM   #6168
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I think you’ll have to forgive Love.
Be glad to. Where was that post with their apology?
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Old 11-15-2020, 07:56 AM   #6169
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Huh? You don't read very well. I don't believe any woman should ever abort her own unborn child. I have said this repeatedly. I also said that I support legislation that stops abortions after the unborn child's heart begins beating.

But ... what if the power grid goes down? What about a neutron EMP bomb? What if Biden is elected? What then? There is just no end to these "what about" games.
Maybe you should be more clear. Like “no heartbeat” can mean multiple things- a still born, a clump of cells getting a heartbeat, etc
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Old 11-15-2020, 07:57 AM   #6170
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Be glad to. Where was that post with their apology?
As Christians, we’re supoosed to forgive everyone even if they don’t apologize.
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Old 11-15-2020, 09:16 AM   #6171
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As Christians, we’re supoosed to forgive everyone even if they don’t apologize.
That's the standard, but without Christ's life in us and living through us, genuine forgiveness is pretty much impossible.
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Old 11-15-2020, 09:51 AM   #6172
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As Christians, we’re supoosed to forgive everyone even if they don’t apologize.
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That's the standard, but without Christ's life in us and living through us, genuine forgiveness is pretty much impossible.
Wait, wait, wait, where does the Bible say "you have to forgive no matter what" (which is what "no apology" implies)?

Jesus says forgive 70x7 "if they repent":

Luke 17:3
So watch yourselves. "If your brother or sister sins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them.

Jesus says in Matthew 18 that if you have a problem with someone, go talk to them. If they don't "hear" (i.e. repent) He doesn't say "you have to forgive them". He says to ratchet it up and bring more people, and then tell the church, and then treat them as unbelievers if they don't repent. He never says "forgive no matter what".

Forgiveness is always predicated on repentance. That's how God forgives us in Christ (when we acknowledge our sins and repent of them).
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Old 11-15-2020, 10:46 AM   #6173
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That was true for Adam and Eve who were created as adults, but not for the rest of us. Too many verses about God knowing us in the womb.
God knows every atom too, all the time. And Gen 2:7 is a more valid probability than God breathed into non-breathing cells at conception. Just admit that you don't know when it becomes a soul. You seem to want it to be a soul at the dinner before conception ... cuz Jeremiah 1:5 says, Before I formed you in the womb I knew you.
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Old 11-15-2020, 11:01 AM   #6174
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Sounds to me like "Love" may be already registered and may have been busted for faking a second identity. Just a guess.

Either way, let me suggest that some other name be selected that is better suited to the poster's character than "Love."
So you dislike what Love says so you cast aspersions upon him/her, like He/She is a member deceiving us by signing in as a guest.

And should you really put down Love? Better go back and study 1 Corinthians 13 again.

If I didn't know that you think you are holding fast to the Bible, I would never be able to understand your biases.
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Old 11-15-2020, 11:05 AM   #6175
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That's the standard, but without Christ's life in us and living through us, genuine forgiveness is pretty much impossible.
Oh c'mon. Even atheists are able to forgive.
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Old 11-15-2020, 11:11 AM   #6176
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Wait, wait, wait, where does the Bible say "you have to forgive no matter what" (which is what "no apology" implies)?

Jesus says forgive 70x7 "if they repent":

Luke 17:3
So watch yourselves. "If your brother or sister sins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them.

Jesus says in Matthew 18 that if you have a problem with someone, go talk to them. If they don't "hear" (i.e. repent) He doesn't say "you have to forgive them". He says to ratchet it up and bring more people, and then tell the church, and then treat them as unbelievers if they don't repent. He never says "forgive no matter what".

Forgiveness is always predicated on repentance. That's how God forgives us in Christ (when we acknowledge our sins and repent of them).
Brother Trapped, aren't you combining two gospels to form one of your own? :
Mat 18:21* Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?*
Mat 18:22* Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.*
It says nothing about repentance.
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Old 11-15-2020, 11:47 AM   #6177
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Maybe you should be more clear. Like “no heartbeat” can mean multiple things- a still born, a clump of cells getting a heartbeat, etc
Oh please, Miss Psychoanalyzer, you knew what I meant when I said that I would like to see legislation ending abortion after the unborn child's heart begins to beat. And how much technology is needed, just a stethoscope! Developed hundreds of years ago!


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Old 11-15-2020, 11:50 AM   #6178
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So you dislike what Love says so you cast aspersions upon him/her, like He/She is a member deceiving us by signing in as a guest.

And should you really put down Love? Better go back and study 1 Corinthians 13 again.

If I didn't know that you think you are holding fast to the Bible, I would never be able to understand your biases.
It was just an alleged guess on my part. Maybe it was you!

Now I demand that you forgive me! Didn't you say even atheists can do it?
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Old 11-15-2020, 11:57 AM   #6179
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God knows every atom too, all the time. And Gen 2:7 is a more valid probability than God breathed into non-breathing cells at conception. Just admit that you don't know when it becomes a soul. You seem to want it to be a soul at the dinner before conception ... cuz Jeremiah 1:5 says, Before I formed you in the womb I knew you.
Yes, Jehovah knew us in eternity past. Only God knows the future!

But thanks for using scripture to prove my point that Jehovah formed us in the womb. That child in the womb is not just an egg and a sperm, but a miracle of life, with the Lord forming a new human life in the womb, and that life is the soul life.
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Old 11-15-2020, 12:02 PM   #6180
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Brother Trapped, aren't you combining two gospels to form one of your own?

Mat 18:21* Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?*
Mat 18:22* Jesus saith unto him, [COLOR=Red]I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.*

It says nothing about repentance.
What on earth do you mean about combining two gospels to form my own? I quoted directly from Luke. You're throwing out part of a gospel to create your own.

Luke 17:3-4
3 So watch yourselves.“If your brother or sister sins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent[/B], forgive them.
4 Even if they sin against you seven times in a day and seven times come back to you saying ‘I repent,’ you must forgive them.”

The parallel passage in Matthew does not have the phrase "and if they repent" but it immediately follows the passage I quoted in my post concerning "if they hear you", which is acknowledgement, godly sorrow, repentance.

Repentance is repeatedly the requirement for forgiveness.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Mark 1:4
And so John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

Acts 2:38
Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 3:19
Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,
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Old 11-15-2020, 12:14 PM   #6181
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What on earth do you mean about combining two gospels to form my own? I quoted directly from Luke. You're throwing out part of a gospel to create your own.

Luke 17:3-4
3 So watch yourselves.“If your brother or sister sins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them.
4 Even if they sin against you seven times in a day and seven times come back to you saying ‘I repent,’ you must forgive them.”

The parallel passage in Matthew does not have the phrase "and if they repent" but it immediately follows the passage I quoted in my post concerning "if they hear you", which is acknowledgement, godly sorrow, repentance.

Repentance is repeatedly the requirement for forgiveness.