Bible Answer Man Converts to Eastern Orthodox!

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I defined "evangelical congregation" as a church where the gospel of salvation was actively preached, and the leaders were born again Christians.

That's not to say that some members or attendants were not yet saved.

I exclude non-evangelicals like the Catholic church I grew up in, which during all my years there, I never heard the gospel of salvation.

And, no, I don't do the same thing you do. My heart is enlarged to receive all believers, including you. And I don't play your word games.

I understand, and somewhat agree a genuine church should be like that .But you've put some conditions on the meeting that others may not agree with. For example, one could say that any gathering of Christians is the church, and we just have to accept that not all of them will preach the gospel and the leaders may not be born again Christians (tares or, wolves, as they may be). But they are still the church and we should still meet with them. In fact I used to meet like this a long time ago. Is it right to partake of communion from someone, a pastor, or priest, who is not even a born again believer. I see many issues with the way church is done, not just the denominational names, but the insistence of a single qualified person (e.g. Priest) delivering the bread and wine, who may not be born again themselves. On topic - Hank has joined this kind of church, a church where the priest who gives him the bread and wine every Sunday may not be born again himself. In fact, Orthodox don't even know who is saved and who is not. That's why I say his "rejection of the LC" was actually more of a rejection of evangelicalism itself. According to the article in the OP, this is a problem that evangelicals are pondering over. How can a 30-year evangelical just join the Orthodox church?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

I understand, and somewhat agree a genuine church should be like that .But you've put some conditions on the meeting that others may not agree with. For example, one could say that any gathering of Christians is the church, and we just have to accept that not all of them will preach the gospel and the leaders may not be born again Christians (tares or, wolves, as they may be). But they are still the church and we should still meet with them. In fact I used to meet like this a long time ago. Is it right to partake of communion from someone, a pastor, or priest, who is not even a born again believer. I see many issues with the way church is done, not just the denominational names, but the insistence of a single qualified person (e.g. Priest) delivering the bread and wine, who may not be born again themselves. On topic - Hank has joined this kind of church, a church where the priest who gives him the bread and wine every Sunday may not be born again himself. In fact, Orthodox don't even know who is saved and who is not. That's why I say his "rejection of the LC" was actually more of a rejection of evangelicalism itself. According to the article in the OP, this is a problem that evangelicals are pondering over. How can a 30-year evangelical just join the Orthodox church?

They may be called a church, and that's why many Christians refer to themselves as "evangelical," including you.

What conditions have I put on a meeting? Other than we must gather in His name?

I can't answer for anything Hank has done.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Ohio

They may be called a church, and that's why many Christians refer to themselves as "evangelical," including you.

What conditions have I put on a meeting? Other than we must gather in His name?

I can't answer for anything Hank has done.

The conditions you put on a meeting were them having a born again leader and actively preaching the gospel of salvation. These conditions are not satisfied by a number of denominations I can think of. You know it's even possible for an atheist to get a theological qualification and lead a church. Relevant article here:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-church-canada

I note this statement:

A progressive Christian denomination that began ordaining women in Canada 80 years ago and for decades has allowed openly gay men and women to lead ministries, the church has been left questioning its boundaries.

This is my point exactly .Where do we draw the boundaries? You seem to have drawn the boundary at having a born again leader and preaching the gospel. Others may just be happy having a born again leader. Others may not see having a born again leader as necessary, as long as they are theologically trained and qualified to hand out communion bread and wine - as long as they are caring and loving and can visit the sick in hospital, conduct marriages and funeral services. And they all think they are "meeting in Christ's name" too. 80% of the church may be genuine believers, who knows.

My point all along is that this way of thinking is wrong, this system is broken. Getting rid of the clergy-laity distinction would resolve this problem immediately. Pastor is gay or atheist? One way to solve this is just get rid of the pastor position, let every member function. No theological qualification required for handling the bread and wine, just being a believer in Christ is enough.

In Christianity the general trend away from God has been progressing since the New Testament times. First it was denominationalism to split the church, then the ordination of women, then the acceptance of gay marriage and next will be the rejection of God completely by acceptance of atheist church leaders.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

The conditions you put on a meeting were them having a born again leader and actively preaching the gospel of salvation. These conditions are not satisfied by a number of denominations I can think of. You know it's even possible for an atheist to get a theological qualification and lead a church. Relevant article here:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-church-canada

I note this statement:

A progressive Christian denomination that began ordaining women in Canada 80 years ago and for decades has allowed openly gay men and women to lead ministries, the church has been left questioning its boundaries.

This is my point exactly .Where do we draw the boundaries? You seem to have drawn the boundary at having a born again leader and preaching the gospel. Others may just be happy having a born again leader. Others may not see having a born again leader as necessary, as long as they are theologically trained and qualified to hand out communion bread and wine - as long as they are caring and loving and can visit the sick in hospital, conduct marriages and funeral services. And they all think they are "meeting in Christ's name" too. 80% of the church may be genuine believers, who knows.

My point all along is that this way of thinking is wrong, this system is broken. Getting rid of the clergy-laity distinction would resolve this problem immediately. Pastor is gay or atheist? One way to solve this is just get rid of the pastor position, let every member function. No theological qualification required for handling the bread and wine, just being a believer in Christ is enough.

In Christianity the general trend away from God has been progressing since the New Testament times. First it was denominationalism to split the church, then the ordination of women, then the acceptance of gay marriage and next will be the rejection of God completely by acceptance of atheist church leaders.

Does an exemption negate the rule? Did not the Lord Jesus pray all night before selecting the twelve, and one of them betrayed Him?

Do we have to discuss gays? Do you know how many LC gays are still in the closet?

Anyways, this conversation is going no where.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Does an exemption negate the rule? Did not the Lord Jesus pray all night before selecting the twelve, and one of them betrayed Him?

Do we have to discuss gays? Do you know how many LC gays are still in the closet?

Anyways, this conversation is going no where.

The difference is Jesus did not start a denomination to cater for the needs of Judas Iscariot. If Judas Iscariot had started his own denomination, I am sure it would not have been recognized as a church by Jesus and the disciples. Anyway, back on topic - Greek Orthodox church. What's up with that? Don't they know the bible says "there is no Jew or Greek". Hank has gone from being the "bible answer man" to the "church tradition answer man". The way things are going with gays and women priests in evangelical churches, I think I would join the Greek Orthodox too.

I don't think the Orthodox church even can be considered a true church by your standards of a church needing to preach the gospel:

"Many years of missionary work in Eastern Europe and Russia have led me to conclude that the gospel is not often proclaimed in the Orthodox Church. Church services are ritualistic exercises that focus on the icons and the sacraments," Dr. D. Trent Hyatt wrote in a chapter for Answers in Genesis' World Religions and Cults book series.
Read more at http://www.christianpost.com/news/bi...fe3aYOk4uZg.99