Local Church Discussions  

Go Back   Local Church Discussions > Fellowship Hall

Fellowship Hall Talk it over here. Also for prayer requests

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-07-2020, 06:36 PM   #1
jesusislord
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 29
Default Why isn't the LC a Part of the Breathen Church?

Brother Nee was a part of the Breathen fellowship for years. He even recognised them as the parallel work of God, he think the Lord has called him for a commission. He took ideas from the breathen like one city one church. But why aren't they one family if their interpretation of the church is the same? At least not many denominations see that. But today the Brethren are doing their own thing, the LC is obsessed to think that bro Lee brought the divine highest peak to them.

Well if you see in the history, the main reason why Christian groups split is because the interpretation of the scripture. For the saints in lc, they need to think about this:

1)Bro Nee and Lee were so right about the scriptures, they got it right, in this age they saw something which most of the Christians didn't see. the Lord has shown the truth that's missing for so long.

Or

2)They were deviated from the majority because they read the bible wrongly, due to the influence of bad theology.
jesusislord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2020, 07:37 AM   #2
Sons to Glory!
Member
 
Sons to Glory!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 1,469
Default Re: Why lc isn't apart of the breathen church?

So I pick door #2. Standing on anything apart from Christ alone, will produce division, and this includes standing on "truths" someone sees in scripture. As we've often said here, it's a supreme irony that the teaching that was supposed to promote true oneness in the body of Christ, became just another fleshly division. Something supposedly good, but again, apart from Christ alone it just makes for division.

Some day all these fleshly divisions will fall away, and we will experience full oneness in love, joy and peace - which is just the Lord Spirit! But it will be clear that it is Him that has done it, and not our according to any of our schemes. (and no, I don't know when that oneness will be manifested . . . in this age or the next. But it will be 100% of the Lord Jesus Christ when it happens)
__________________
LC Berkeley 70s; LC Columbus OH 80s; An Ekklesia in Scottsdale 98-now
Sons to Glory! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2020, 04:35 PM   #3
Freedom
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,623
Default Re: Why lc isn't apart of the breathen church?

My understanding is that Nee was kicked out of the exclusive brethren due to his association with TA Sparks. I think the LCM associated with Sparks and other open brethren groups until Lee started becoming uncompromising about the ground of locality teaching.

It is indeed ironic how much of a petty and divisive of a path the LCM took. It was all rationalized as standing for the truth, but the very thing that they thought that they were standing for is the complete opposite of what they turned out to be.
__________________
Isaiah 43:10 “You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord, “and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me.
Freedom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2020, 02:39 AM   #4
aron
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Natal Transvaal
Posts: 5,141
Default Re: Why lc isn't apart of the breathen church?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom View Post
It's ironic how much of a petty and divisive of a path the LCM took. It was all rationalized as standing for the truth, but the very thing that they thought that they were standing for is the complete opposite of what they turned out to be.
One thing about fundamentalist Protestant splinter cells: they separate over some supposedly crucial truth, then won't allow their members the same latitude. Many who left "dead religion" in the 1960s and 70s for the LC were horrified that later their children wanted the same exact thing - the freedom to choose. You have to wonder - if "Everyone but us is divisive" isn't perhaps most divisive of all.
__________________
"Freedom is free. It's slavery that's so horribly expensive" - Colonel Templeton, ret., of the 12th Scottish Highlanders, the 'Black Fusiliers'
aron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2020, 04:40 AM   #5
Ohio
Member
 
Ohio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Greater Ohio
Posts: 12,207
Default Re: Why lc isn't apart of the breathen church?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aron View Post
One thing about fundamentalist Protestant splinter cells: they separate over some supposedly crucial truth, then won't allow their members the same latitude. Many who left "dead religion" in the 1960s and 70s for the LC were horrified that later their children wanted the same exact thing - the freedom to choose. You have to wonder - if "Everyone but us is divisive" isn't perhaps most divisive of all.
aron you definitely have steered the answer to jesusislord's question in the right direction. Brethren and Recovery leaders have painstakingly convinced their following that it was all about the TRUTH, when in reality it was all just about them.

In a display of blatant honesty, WL, the last MOTA, during his Rosemead rant in the late 1980's, said it best, "Lee, Lee, it all must be about Lee."
__________________
Ohio's motto is: With God all things are possible!.
Keeping all my posts short, quick, living, and to the point!
Ohio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2020, 07:02 AM   #6
Sons to Glory!
Member
 
Sons to Glory!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 1,469
Default Re: Why lc isn't apart of the breathen church?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aron View Post
One thing about fundamentalist Protestant splinter cells: they separate over some supposedly crucial truth, then won't allow their members the same latitude. Many who left "dead religion" in the 1960s and 70s for the LC were horrified that later their children wanted the same exact thing - the freedom to choose. You have to wonder - if "Everyone but us is divisive" isn't perhaps most divisive of all.
Ha ha - this reminds me of a joke:

An elderly husband goes out to run some errands in which he has to get on the freeway for a few miles. A little later his wife is watching the news and sees a report about some crazy person driving the wrong way on the freeway. She urgently calls her husband's cell phone and says, "You better be careful - some nut is driving the wrong way on the freeway!" He replies, "I know, but it's not just one person - they're all driving the wrong way!"
__________________
LC Berkeley 70s; LC Columbus OH 80s; An Ekklesia in Scottsdale 98-now
Sons to Glory! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2020, 10:50 AM   #7
Freedom
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,623
Default Re: Why lc isn't apart of the breathen church?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aron View Post
One thing about fundamentalist Protestant splinter cells: they separate over some supposedly crucial truth, then won't allow their members the same latitude. Many who left "dead religion" in the 1960s and 70s for the LC were horrified that later their children wanted the same exact thing - the freedom to choose. You have to wonder - if "Everyone but us is divisive" isn't perhaps most divisive of all.
Very true. The LC was formed out of a supposed need to separate from others due to the perception that everyone else was divisive. There's nothing particularly alarming about the fact that Nee/Lee formed their own group, just as many others have done. The thing that is alarming, however, was the stated basis for doing so.

People in the LC were always more worried about denominations squabbling over doctrines than they were about the fact that they has a group refused to have any real interaction with any Christians outside the LC.
__________________
Isaiah 43:10 “You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord, “and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me.
Freedom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2020, 02:21 PM   #8
aron
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Natal Transvaal
Posts: 5,141
Default Re: Why lc isn't apart of the breathen church?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom View Post
People in the LC were always more worried about denominations squabbling over doctrines than they were about the fact that they has a group refused to have any real interaction with any Christians outside the LC.
And they sing songs by Luther, but shun the Lutherans. Praise Wesley but shun Methodists. Sing Fanny Crosby and Frances Havergal but shun Baptists and Congregation church goers. All those groups are supposedly beyond the Christian pale, but are simultaneously part of the LC's "rich heritage". Huh?

It's like saying, "I loved Joe. Would have done anything for him, at any moment. Anything. Nothing too small or great. But today I won't go near his wife, his kids, his house, his dog, his extended family, or any of his other friends. Can't stand any of them.... but I really loved Joe."
__________________
"Freedom is free. It's slavery that's so horribly expensive" - Colonel Templeton, ret., of the 12th Scottish Highlanders, the 'Black Fusiliers'
aron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2020, 03:42 PM   #9
Freedom
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,623
Default Re: Why lc isn't apart of the breathen church?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aron View Post
And they sing songs by Luther, but shun the Lutherans. Praise Wesley but shun Methodists. Sing Fanny Crosby and Frances Havergal but shun Baptists and Congregation church goers. All those groups are supposedly beyond the Christian pale, but are simultaneously part of the LC's "rich heritage". Huh?

It's like saying, "I loved Joe. Would have done anything for him, at any moment. Anything. Nothing too small or great. But today I won't go near his wife, his kids, his house, his dog, his extended family, or any of his other friends. Can't stand any of them.... but I really loved Joe."

Yes, it's all rather telling. The LC wants to take things here and there from each group, but they don't really recognize any of those groups as legitimate beyond that.
__________________
Isaiah 43:10 “You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord, “and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me.
Freedom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2020, 04:03 PM   #10
aron
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Natal Transvaal
Posts: 5,141
Default Re: Why lc isn't apart of the breathen church?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom View Post
Yes, it's all rather telling. The LC wants to take things here and there from each group, but they don't really recognize any of those groups as legitimate beyond that.
They appropriate liberally from Christianity to legitimate themselves then sweepingly de-legitimate Christianity in toto. Talk about a heavy burden to bear. The self-imposed weight is enormous.
__________________
"Freedom is free. It's slavery that's so horribly expensive" - Colonel Templeton, ret., of the 12th Scottish Highlanders, the 'Black Fusiliers'
aron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2020, 06:06 PM   #11
Freedom
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,623
Default Re: Why lc isn't apart of the breathen church?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aron View Post
They appropriate liberally from Christianity to legitimate themselves then sweepingly de-legitimate Christianity in toto. Talk about a heavy burden to bear. The self-imposed weight is enormous.
Yeah, Nee/Lee made the claim to be simply standing on the shoulders of those who had gone before them. It seemed fair enough. But as it turned out the real goal of picking and choosing all the things they wanted from Christianity was really just to help elevate themselves into larger than life figures.
__________________
Isaiah 43:10 “You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord, “and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me.
Freedom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2020, 01:13 PM   #12
Truthseeker
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 86
Default Re: Why isn't the LC a Part of the Breathen Church?

Hey,I have one question about Lee and LSM's stance toward military service. Darby strongly discouraged all Saints to join military because Darby thinks that all worldly institutions include military are the places where Christians must avoid to get in. Do Lee and LSM have the same stance as Darby?
__________________
Preach Effective Sermons or Effective Messages
Now!!! Learn more about it here: https://bit.ly/2mlR0dl
Truthseeker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2020, 01:34 PM   #13
Sons to Glory!
Member
 
Sons to Glory!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 1,469
Default Re: Why isn't the LC a Part of the Breathen Church?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Truthseeker View Post
Hey,I have one question about Lee and LSM's stance toward military service. Darby strongly discouraged all Saints to join military because Darby thinks that all worldly institutions include military are the places where Christians must avoid to get in. Do Lee and LSM have the same stance as Darby?
Not at all, from what I recall. I never heard this being addressed.
__________________
LC Berkeley 70s; LC Columbus OH 80s; An Ekklesia in Scottsdale 98-now
Sons to Glory! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2020, 01:50 PM   #14
Freedom
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,623
Default Re: Why isn't the LC a Part of the Breathen Church?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Truthseeker View Post
Hey,I have one question about Lee and LSM's stance toward military service. Darby strongly discouraged all Saints to join military because Darby thinks that all worldly institutions include military are the places where Christians must avoid to get in. Do Lee and LSM have the same stance as Darby?
I know someone who was planning to join the army, but he got talked out of it because an elder didn't want him joining the military. I don't know if that represents the LC stance as a whole though.
__________________
Isaiah 43:10 “You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord, “and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me.
Freedom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2020, 06:00 AM   #15
Ohio
Member
 
Ohio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Greater Ohio
Posts: 12,207
Default Re: Why isn't the LC a Part of the Breathen Church?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jesusislord View Post
Brother Nee was a part of the Breathen fellowship for years. He even recognised them as the parallel work of God, he think the Lord has called him for a commission. He took ideas from the breathen like one city one church. But why aren't they one family if their interpretation of the church is the same? At least not many denominations see that. But today the Brethren are doing their own thing, the LC is obsessed to think that bro Lee brought the divine highest peak to them.

Well if you see in the history, the main reason why Christian groups split is because the interpretation of the scripture. For the saints in lc, they need to think about this:

1)Bro Nee and Lee were so right about the scriptures, they got it right, in this age they saw something which most of the Christians didn't see. the Lord has shown the truth that's missing for so long.

Or

2)They were deviated from the majority because they read the bible wrongly, due to the influence of bad theology.
Coming back to your initial question, I would also ask why George Muller was not part of the Brethren fellowship. He was. Solidly for some 15 years. And quite gifted and fruitful. With his work to care for orphans, one could make the case that Muller did more to further the cause of the Brethren movement than any other. Then what happened to Muller? Why was he expelled? Was that a one off event in Brethren / Recovery history? Hardly.

To answer your second question, the reason why some groups split is NOT because of different interpretations of the Bible. Perhaps, on the surface, different doctrines and practices created rifts, but beneath the surface most were power struggles. Darby wanted Muller to be subjected to his mandates. The Brethren wanted Nee subjected to their rules. Lee insisted on absolute surrender.

Divisions, then, occurred because of personality conflicts, aka "lording it over" one another, or as Jesus said, "rule as the Gentiles."
__________________
Ohio's motto is: With God all things are possible!.
Keeping all my posts short, quick, living, and to the point!
Ohio is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:38 PM.


3.8.9