Important Announcement regarding the Alternative Views Subforum

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Oh it was sweet. If you are abused you have to go to 30 days of counseling, no doubt counseling similar to the "can't we all just get along" and "think of all the people that will be harmed" counseling. If you still wish to pursue a lawsuit you then need 30 days of mediation -- attempt to buy your silence at a fraction of the cost. Finally, if you still wish to pursue it you need a 30 day cooling off period.

The beauty of this is that there is a 180 day deadline to file. So if someone hesitated for a month or two before starting this process this required cooling off period could literally make it mute.

Finally, if you do sue and win the money is paid by a government fund and not by the offending party! Imagine if LSM had a slush fund to pay for PL's indiscretions!
So, Roy Moore was the needle that lanced this boil.

Perhaps LSM did have such a fund, plus they had the legal defense team to go after the victims.

[ZNPaaneah]

Kim Jong Un May Have Caused a Parasitic Worm Epidemic in North Korea By Making Farmers Spread Human Faeces on Their Crops

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Kim Jong Un May Have Caused a Parasitic Worm Epidemic in North Korea By Making Farmers Spread Human Faeces on Their Crops

... lol ...

I shouldn't laugh. When I was a kid I helped my uncle load up a manure spreader with cow manure from the barn. Then he pulled it up next to our outhouse, and scooped up the outhouse contents, the human fecal matter, and put that into the manure spreader.

Then he spread that all over our garden. It grossed me out. But I've never tasted better tomatoes.

I hope the best for these North Korean farm workers.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

... lol ...

I shouldn't laugh. When I was a kid I helped my uncle load up a manure spreader with cow manure from the barn. Then he pulled it up next to our outhouse, and scooped up the outhouse contents, the human fecal matter, and put that into the manure spreader.

Then he spread that all over our garden. It grossed me out. But I've never tasted better tomatoes.

I hope the best for these North Korean farm workers.

I once worked at a facility as the groundskeeper when I was in High school and they had great tasting blackberries. Later I learned these bushes were over the septic tank.

We should separate food we eat from our fecal matter. He could have used the human fecal matter to fertilize flowers that were sold. This can be a very good cash crop without endangering the population.

Surely if they have the technology to make an ICBM with a Hydrogen bomb they know this.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Kim Jong Un May Have Caused a Parasitic Worm Epidemic in North Korea By Making Farmers Spread Human Faeces on Their Crops

Thanks for ruining my lunch.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Kim Jong Un May Have Caused a Parasitic Worm Epidemic in North Korea By Making Farmers Spread Human Faeces on Their Crops

I read that article. Pretty sad.

This North Korean soldier? tried to defect to the South, and they shot him 5 times. They opened him up and found parasitic worms not yet known to medical science.

Have a nice lunch!

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I read that article. Pretty sad.

This North Korean soldier? tried to defect to the South, and they shot him 5 times. They opened him up and found parasitic worms not yet known to medical science.

Have a nice lunch!

I feel sorry for the people of North Korea. They are living in a personality cult that makes the personality cult of the local church look like innocent child's play. Sure we had marches, and all dressed the same in gospel robes. But I don't recall goosestepping.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

I feel sorry for the people of North Korea. They are living in a personality cult that makes the personality cult of the local church look like innocent child's play. Sure we had marches, and all dressed the same in gospel robes. But I don't recall goosestepping.

They have entire prison cities with multiple generations that have never known freedom or a decent meal. Nothing to joke about.

I have read that the simple gospel of Jesus Christ is the hope of many.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

They have entire prison cities with multiple generations that have never known freedom or a decent meal. Nothing to joke about.

I have read that the simple gospel of Jesus Christ is the hope of many.

That's where the apocalyptical Jesus cries out loud and clear ; to the downcast, persecuted, suffering, and hopeless

North Koreans, just like in China today, I've read, where people have little or no hope, the idea that Jesus will return, ring in the kingdom of God, and end all hunger, disease, and suffering, has very strong and successful appeal. I've read hordes in China are flocking to groups and movements preaching the end times.

What's sad is that grifters and con artists see the end times as an opportunity to get rich, off those that are just looking for hope.

That's enough to turn any sober minded person off to end times preaching. Harold Camping comes to mind ($95 million). And Jim Bakker, with his $1500.00 End Time Survival Food Buckets.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

That's where the apocalyptical Jesus cries out loud and clear ; to the downcast, persecuted, suffering, and hopeless

North Koreans, just like in China today, I've read, where people have little or no hope, the idea that Jesus will return, ring in the kingdom of God, and end all hunger, disease, and suffering, has very strong and successful appeal. I've read hordes in China are flocking to groups and movements preaching the end times.

What's sad is that grifters and con artists see the end times as an opportunity to get rich, off those that are just looking for hope.

That's enough to turn any sober minded person off to end times preaching. Harold Camping comes to mind ($95 million). And Jim Bakker, with his $1500.00 End Time Survival Food Buckets.

No one is getting rich off these prisoners in NoKo.

[Ohio]

The Roy Moore smear job was poorly planned by WaPo.

They have given him far too much time to rebut the allegations, and too much time for others to come forward as character' witnesses.

Roy Moore announces 12 testimonials from women affirming his character

It's looking like Clarence Thomas deja vu.

The left pulled out all stops with famed lawyer Gloria Allred representing the latest of Moore's "victims." Finally they produced their first "real evidence."

Turns out their Class Yearbook signature was a total forgery. Roy Moore/da was NOT Roy Moore/district attorney, but Roy Moore/Debra Adams. As is customary, his secretary signed for him, and these idiots just lifted the signature onto the Class Yearbook.

Unbelievably stupid. Reminds me of that "legit" Bush letter discovered by disgraced anchor Dan Rather of CBS. Turned out to have proportional spacing before it was even invented.

I wonder when those who called Roy Moore a "pig" will be willing to reconsider?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The Roy Moore smear job was poorly planned by WaPo.

They have given him far too much time to rebut the allegations, and too much time for others to come forward as character' witnesses.

Roy Moore announces 12 testimonials from women affirming his character

It's looking like Clarence Thomas deja vu.

The left pulled out all stops with famed lawyer Gloria Allred representing the latest of Moore's "victims." Finally they produced their first "real evidence."

Turns out their Class Yearbook signature was a total forgery. Roy Moore/da was NOT Roy Moore/district attorney, but Roy Moore/Debra Adams. As is customary, his secretary signed for him, and these idiots just lifted the signature onto the Class Yearbook.

Unbelievably stupid. Reminds me of that "legit" Bush letter discovered by disgraced anchor Dan Rather of CBS. Turned out to have proportional spacing before it was even invented.

I wonder when those who called Roy Moore a "pig" will be willing to reconsider?

Wait, Roy Moore's secretary signed a student's yearbook and put in the restaurant where he was flirting with this waitress?

The issue with Roy Moore is that there is no crime that can be prosecuted. Either the event was too long ago, too little evidence or was not criminal.

No, the issue is character. If you are OK with a 30+ year old man cruising the mall to pick up teenagers, then this is a non issue. Other than the 14 year old girl there is no allegation of criminal behavior (as far as I have heard).

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Wait, Roy Moore's secretary signed a student's yearbook and put in the restaurant where he was flirting with this waitress?

The issue with Roy Moore is that there is no crime that can be prosecuted. Either the event was too long ago, too little evidence or was not criminal.

No, the issue is character. If you are OK with a 30+ year old man cruising the mall to pick up teenagers, then this is a non issue. Other than the 14 year old girl there is no allegation of criminal behavior (as far as I have heard).

I'm not OK with predatory behavior by Moore. Neither was I OK with the accusations by Professor Anita Hill against Clarence Thomas. (There are other cases like this too.)

My point is and has been that the allegations are false.

The Democrats have an unhealthy advantage in our political system. When accusations come against them, i.e. Franken, Clinton, etc., they never resign and their caucus rallies around them. The Republicans, however, receiving similar accusations are expected to resign, while the rest of their party throws them under the bus. It has been rightly said that Moore's biggest problem is his party affiliation.

[awareness]

Church leaders say Roy Moore is 'infected by a false Christian religious virus' as they hold a rally in Alabama arguing he is unfit for US Senate
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...it-Senate.html

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I'm not OK with predatory behavior by Moore. Neither was I OK with the accusations by Professor Anita Hill against Clarence Thomas. (There are other cases like this too.)

My point is and has been that the allegations are false.

The Democrats have an unhealthy advantage in our political system. When accusations come against them, i.e. Franken, Clinton, etc., they never resign and their caucus rallies around them. The Republicans, however, receiving similar accusations are expected to resign, while the rest of their party throws them under the bus. It has been rightly said that Moore's biggest problem is his party affiliation.

I have not seen anything that would confirm the claims are false. Even the claim which you make that the DA's secretary wrote in this girls yearbook on behalf of her boss, writing the name of the restaurant. That to me does not indicate lying but a confirmation of the key points. He was flirting with a waitress at this restaurant, he knew she was in HS (hence the yearbook).

The fact that this happened about 40 years ago is more than enough for me to think she could have forgotten that the Secretary signed it for the boss.

The only thing I would concede is that there has not been any proof of criminal behavior, only the appearance. Also, none of the claims will result in criminal charges.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I have not seen anything that would confirm the claims are false. Even the claim which you make that the DA's secretary wrote in this girls yearbook on behalf of her boss, writing the name of the restaurant. That to me does not indicate lying but a confirmation of the key points. He was flirting with a waitress at this restaurant, he knew she was in HS (hence the yearbook).

The fact that this happened about 40 years ago is more than enough for me to think she could have forgotten that the Secretary signed it for the boss.

The only thing I would concede is that there has not been any proof of criminal behavior, only the appearance. Also, none of the claims will result in criminal charges.

Neither Roy Moore nor his secretary wrote in her Yearbook.

The signature was lifted off the divorce decree the woman had.

She (and her helpers?) thought it meant "Roy Moore/district attorney" so she used it and forged the rest. She used Atty. Gloria Allred for "legitimacy."

When Moore challenged the accusations, demanded to see the original copy of the yearbook, the accuser tried to disappear into the night.

Then the accuser's stepson said she did it all for the money. Bezos, via WaPo, via their field operatives, have been dangling cash throughout Alabama.

I smell a rat. Many rats. Someone said Mitch McConnell might be involved.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Church leaders say Roy Moore is 'infected by a false Christian religious virus' as they hold a rally in Alabama arguing he is unfit for US Senate
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...it-Senate.html

I looked but couldn't find those stalwarts of moral character, Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, in the photo.

[Ohio]

NEWS FLASH

Purportedly Moore’s main accuser Leigh Corfman has had three divorces, filed for bankruptcy three times, and has been charged with multiple misdemeanors.

Posts on Moore's FB page indicate that Corfman, has claimed several pastors at various churches made sexual advances at her.

Roy Moore accusations unraveling..

Apparently Moore's accuser has a history of making up stories and dropping them after her pockets are filled with cash.

Regarding the only other woman to have made claims of sexual improprieties over Moore’s entire life, Beverly Nelson, her step-son-in-law recently came forward and stated in no uncertain terms that he believes that she is lying, that he had never heard this story regarding Moore before, and that his father is now divorced from Beverly Nelson BECAUSE she is a serial liar. He went even further, and said he would not be surprised if she is receiving money for what he believes to be a fabrication.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Neither Roy Moore nor his secretary wrote in her Yearbook.

The signature was lifted off the divorce decree the woman had.

She (and her helpers?) thought it meant "Roy Moore/district attorney" so she used it and forged the rest. She used Atty. Gloria Allred for "legitimacy."

When Moore challenged the accusations, demanded to see the original copy of the yearbook, the accuser tried to disappear into the night.

Then the accuser's stepson said she did it all for the money. Bezos, via WaPo, via their field operatives, have been dangling cash throughout Alabama.

I smell a rat. Many rats. Someone said Mitch McConnell might be involved.

If this is true then he needs to sue them for libel and forgery. It would be an easy thing to prove and it would do much more than exonerate him, it would demonstrate the vile political machinations that are going on.

However, if he does not sue, then I will merely believe this is a tale being spun with no repercussions since the allegations will never go to trial.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

NEWS FLASH

Purportedly Moore’s main accuser Leigh Corfman has had three divorces, filed for bankruptcy three times, and has been charged with multiple misdemeanors.

Posts on Moore's FB page indicate that Corfman, has claimed several pastors at various churches made sexual advances at her.

Roy Moore accusations unraveling..

Apparently Moore's accuser has a history of making up stories and dropping them after her pockets are filled with cash.

Regarding the only other woman to have made claims of sexual improprieties over Moore’s entire life, Beverly Nelson, her step-son-in-law recently came forward and stated in no uncertain terms that he believes that she is lying, that he had never heard this story regarding Moore before, and that his father is now divorced from Beverly Nelson BECAUSE she is a serial liar. He went even further, and said he would not be surprised if she is receiving money for what he believes to be a fabrication.

And that goes for all 16 accusers of Trump. Essentially, if it's against a republican they are all lies. But if against a democrat they are all true.

Bahahahahaha.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

And that goes for all 16 accusers of Trump. Essentially, if it's against a republican they are all lies. But if against a democrat they are all true.

Bahahahahaha.

There's hope for you, bro!

But ... we got pics of Franken. We have no evidence of Moore.

Still no evidence of Trump colluding with the Russians?

[zeek]

Presidential historian states "The fish rots from the head and the stench of this administration starts at the very top." https://www.vox.com/2017/11/16/16643...-investigation

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Presidential historian states "The fish rots from the head and the stench of this administration starts at the very top." https://www.vox.com/2017/11/16/16643...-investigation

Too funny.

Where was this liberal "historian" for the last 8 years?

Today's "swamp" is the rot which Barry O. gave us.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

Presidential historian states "The fish rots from the head and the stench of this administration starts at the very top." https://www.vox.com/2017/11/16/16643...-investigation

"This administration is a low point in our history" -- Wow!

The assassination of JFK was not a low point?

The Great depression was not a low point?

The Civil War was not a low point?

Slavery was not a low point?

KKK and carpet baggers were not a low point?

Is this guy for real?

[awareness]

Woman says Franken inappropriately touched her in 2010
While a senator :
http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/20/politi...010/index.html

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Woman says Franken inappropriately touched her in 2010
While a senator :
http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/20/politi...010/index.html

And old Joe Biden will never again snuggle up with another young and pretty "constituent."

[OBW]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

"This administration is a low point in our history" -- Wow!

The assassination of JFK was not a low point?

The Great depression was not a low point?

The Civil War was not a low point?

Slavery was not a low point?

KKK and carpet baggers were not a low point?

Is this guy for real?

He said "a" low point, not "THE" low point. Therefore, all of the points that you mention can also be low points.

As for the history of the government, the administrative branch in particular, and the presidency even more so, it is very clearly A low point in our history.

Either you can't understand the English language, or you are ready to fight against whatever certain people say and will recharacterize what they say to suit your agenda. Take your pick. I can't figure out any more alternative explanations for the stupidity of your rants.

Are you for real?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by OBW

He said "a" low point, not "THE" low point. Therefore, all of the points that you mention can also be low points.

As for the history of the government, the administrative branch in particular, and the presidency even more so, it is very clearly A low point in our history.

Either you can't understand the English language, or you are ready to fight against whatever certain people say and will recharacterize what they say to suit your agenda. Take your pick. I can't figure out any more alternative explanations for the stupidity of your rants.

Are you for real?

Did I miss something? What scandal with Trump has been confirmed? Not interested in allegations, hearsay, or potential outcomes because if he is for real in comparing them to previous scandals in the US we have plenty that have been confirmed.


My point is that we have come a very long way from slavery and only men voting. This has been over the last 200 years. I didn't even mention things like the Boston Massacre where you weren't even allowed to disagree publicly with the Crown without being vilified or even charged with treason. So yes, any little dip in the road can be seen as "a low point". Once taken to the extreme it is meaningless. Yes I am for real. Trump is a very incompetent politician. One of his "flaws" is that he says the same things they say, only in public. If you listen to the Nixon tapes or view Johnson's transcripts there is nothing particularly "low" with Trump other than this language is public.

"Dallek estimates that historical examples of corruption, like that of the Warren G. Harding administration, don’t hold a candle to how Trump and his people have conducted themselves in the White House."

Once again I disagree. We have allegations of corruption, but until there are convictions it is absurd to say these allegations are worse than previously confirmed cases of corruption. I consider that 911 was the biggest government scandal in our history, though others will certainly disagree, though those who disagree rarely if ever have studied the case in detail. I also consider JFK's assassination right up there with 911. Once again, perhaps others disagree. I consider the Box 13 scandal to be every bit as heinous as the worst allegations made so far. The worst possible allegations about Trump was that he stole the election. We know this was a fact with LBJ. The Teapot dome scandal and the horrendous conditions in meat packing houses revealed in "The Jungle" are certainly worse than anything we have confirmed today. Trump's worst statements cannot hold a candle to the accepted behavior during the time of slavery. The public debates in the Senate and house were far worse than anything Trump has said.

Now if Trump starts a nuclear war with North Korea then OK, it will rank up there with Johnson escalating the Vietnam war after the JFK assassination, or with the bogus reason we went to war based on the make believe attack on our Navy. However, you can't blame trump for North Korea getting a hydrogen bomb and an ICBM. Also, if this didn't cross the line we drew in the sand (again not Trump) then nothing does. So if we do go to war with North Korea I would put some of the responsibility on all of the preceding administrations that led up to this.

What is truly unprecedented is how partisan and insulting the discourse is in the news. This change began after JFK was killed, got worse with LBJ's amping up the Vietnam war, got a boost with Watergate, and has become absolutely toxic since the mortgage crisis.

It is too soon to say that Trump is our worst president ever, and so far the evidence would not support that though who knows how it will all end. To me this 24 hour news cycle and desperation to fill every minute with controversial dialogue is what is unprecedented and the worst and nothing in our past holds a candle to it. Eliminate everyone of Trump's tweets and all you have are a few major foot in the mouth issues and gaffes, something all too common to every politician.

[ZNPaaneah]

We went to war with Iraq over the 911 incident. Our president justified this because of Weapons of Mass destruction. This war cost us more than $1 Trillion. There were no weapons of mass destruction, it was a lie. How many people were killed or injured because of this lie? How can anyone compare anything Trump has done to that? Are they for real?

The worst allegation about Trump is that he colluded with the Russians to win the election. Certainly you realize that previous presidents like Reagan were bought and owned by the Oil industry and that it was in defense of the oil industry that we went to war in Iraq twice and spent over $1 trillion.

How can anything Trump has done so far compare to that? Are they for real?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by OBW

He said "a" low point, not "THE" low point. Therefore, all of the points that you mention can also be low points.

As for the history of the government, the administrative branch in particular, and the presidency even more so, it is very clearly A low point in our history.

Either you can't understand the English language, or you are ready to fight against whatever certain people say and will recharacterize what they say to suit your agenda. Take your pick. I can't figure out any more alternative explanations for the stupidity of your rants.

Are you for real?

Whoa! Whoa! Whoa!

You been watching too much of CNN -- the Clinton News Network.

MSM has made things toxic. Look at those kids from UCLA. They could have suffered the fate of Otto Warbling, but instead Trump got them released. Then they, nor their parents, don't even have the courtesy to even thank him. Reminds me of the 9 Lepers Jesus healed.

The MSM has manufactured every scandal in the news -- from the Russian collusion to Melania's stiletto's. Even noted Liberal Jimmy Carter noted how badly Trump has been treated.

Except for Martin Luther and John Ingalls, I have never seen any one take such a beating and keep going.

Take every news hit job against Trump and Co. and compare it to Clinton, Obama, and Comey selling Uranium reserves to Putin.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

We went to war with Iraq over the 911 incident. Our president justified this because of Weapons of Mass destruction. This war cost us more than $1 Trillion. There were no weapons of mass destruction, it was a lie. How many people were killed or injured because of this lie? How can anyone compare anything Trump has done to that? Are they for real?

Wait a minute. We have indisputable evidence that he gassed the Kurds.

Last I checked chemicals are WMD.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Wait a minute. We have indisputable evidence that he gassed the Kurds.

Last I checked chemicals are WMD.

Yes, and if Bush and Cheney had tried to sell a war with Iraq based on the very few and old chemical weapons we found it never would have sold. Instead they did everything they could to convince us he had a secret nuclear program. The facts are simple:

1. Iraq had nothing to do with Al Qaeda.

2. Colin Powell sold us on the threat of them getting Nuclear weapons. It was bogus and he later felt he had been misled. This is what I was referring to as "it was a lie".

3. Those tasked with finding the WMD's felt they were mismanaged.

What we did find was not a legitimate reason to start this trillion dollar war. If our true concern was the gas why didn't we do something after they gassed the Kurds, why wait?

By the way, has the war ever ended?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Whoa! Whoa! Whoa!

You been watching too much of CNN -- the Clinton News Network.

MSM has made things toxic. Look at those kids from UCLA. They could have suffered the fate of Otto Warbling, but instead Trump got them released. Then they, nor their parents, don't even have the courtesy to even thank him. Reminds me of the 9 Lepers Jesus healed.

The MSM has manufactured every scandal in the news -- from the Russian collusion to Melania's stiletto's. Even noted Liberal Jimmy Carter noted how badly Trump has been treated.

Except for Martin Luther and John Ingalls, I have never seen any one take such a beating and keep going.

Take every news hit job against Trump and Co. and compare it to Clinton, Obama, and Comey selling Uranium reserves to Putin.

Really despicable this lack of thanks. The father said "he has seen much worse than shoplifting" -- what does that mean? Is he saying that stealing is no big deal?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

It is too soon to say that Trump is our worst president ever, . . .

But he sure is a lot of fun. And his twitter obsession sure keeps thing lively. He's been a boon to the late night show comedians, and many others.

It's just that it seems he has an itchy trigger finger for The Button, that rattles me.

Other than that I'm beginning to think that it's great to have a clown as our president.

All eyes on Trump. He loves that. He'll even inflate it, he needs it so badly. Still, Trump intrudes everywhere we look. If only we could stop looking.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

But he sure is a lot of fun. And his twitter obsession sure keeps thing lively. He's been a boon to the late night show comedians, and many others.

It's just that it seems he has an itchy trigger finger for The Button, that rattles me.

Other than that I'm beginning to think that it's great to have a clown as our president.

All eyes on Trump. He loves that. He'll even inflate it, he needs it so badly. Still, Trump intrudes everywhere we look. If only we could stop looking.

Funny the way Alfred Hitchcock was, simply to break the tension in the midst of the horror.

[awareness]

Trump Supporter Says He’d Trust The President Before Jesus Christ
“If Jesus Christ gets down off the cross and told me Trump is with Russia, I would tell him, ‘Hold on a second, I need to check with the president if it’s true.’”
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...ushpmg00000009

[zeek]

Originally Posted by awareness

Trump Supporter Says He’d Trust The President Before Jesus Christ
“If Jesus Christ gets down off the cross and told me Trump is with Russia, I would tell him, ‘Hold on a second, I need to check with the president if it’s true.’”
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...ushpmg00000009

That guy and Ohio probably won't believe that before Donald Trump was elected president, some of his business partners on Trump-branded hotels and condos and the Miss Universe pageant were oligarchs from Russia and former Soviet bloc countries who kept a lot of their money hidden in the secret world of shell companies. But, the Panama Papers and now the Paradise Papers show that it's true.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Yes, and if Bush and Cheney had tried to sell a war with Iraq based on the very few and old chemical weapons we found it never would have sold. Instead they did everything they could to convince us he had a secret nuclear program. The facts are simple:

1. Iraq had nothing to do with Al Qaeda.

2. Colin Powell sold us on the threat of them getting Nuclear weapons. It was bogus and he later felt he had been misled. This is what I was referring to as "it was a lie".

3. Those tasked with finding the WMD's felt they were mismanaged.

What we did find was not a legitimate reason to start this trillion dollar war. If our true concern was the gas why didn't we do something after they gassed the Kurds, why wait?

By the way, has the war ever ended?

For the record, in hindsight, I think the Iraq war was all wrong.

Personally I felt that Dubya was fooled by a few Iraqi academic refugees (non muslem) that the Iraqi people would embrace democracy, given the chance. Perhaps the Kurds or Yazidis might, but never the Sunni Muslims. I'd like to know what influence Bush 41 had on the decision.

And what's with these people in power? Every day another girl comes forth with accusations. Apparently Bush 41 can't keep his hands to himself!

Now we hear Charlie Rose is included also.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Trump Supporter Says He’d Trust The President Before Jesus Christ
“If Jesus Christ gets down off the cross and told me Trump is with Russia, I would tell him, ‘Hold on a second, I need to check with the president if it’s true.’”
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...ushpmg00000009

Huff Post is trying to restore their credibility with this piece?

[zeek]

The GOP is using the Trump tactic of accusing their opponents of their own weaknesses. The object is to create a false equivalency in the minds of public. They seek to divert attention from their vulnerabilities and normalize their corrupt and sociopathic behaviors. By attacking Franken, they hope to muddy the water enough to slide Moore through.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

The GOP is using the Trump tactic of accusing their opponents of their own weaknesses. The object is to create a false equivalency in the minds of public. They seek to divert attention from their vulnerabilities and normalize their corrupt and sociopathic behaviors. By attacking Franken, they hope to muddy the water enough to slide Moore through.

Or perhaps finally the dem/libs are being exposed for who they really are.

Weinstein, Clinton, Franken, today Charlie Rose, tomorrow John Conyer.

Just keep throwing those large-worded mud-balls at Trump to divert attention from the truth.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Or perhaps finally the dem/libs are being exposed for who they really are.

Weinstein, Clinton, Franken, today there are plty Charlie Rose, tomorrow John Conyer.

Just keep throwing those large-worded mud-balls at Trump to divert attention from the truth.

No doubt there are plenty of instances of sexual harassment by Dems and libs. That doesn't exonerate or give a pass to Trump or Moore. Why don't they apologize like Bush, Franken and now Rose have done? Isn't that the Christian thing to do?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I read that article. Pretty sad.

This North Korean soldier? tried to defect to the South, and they shot him 5 times. They opened him up and found parasitic worms not yet known to medical science.

Have a nice lunch!

This soldier was a member of an elite guard. Sun Tzu said you could see the condition of the entire army from a single soldier. I think it is safe to conclude that these parasites will be wide spread, maybe even the majority of the country. What we are going to see is our special ops kick into high gear trying to get someone to overthrow Kim Jong Un. The deal will probably be -- overthrow Kim, dismantle the nuclear program and China will come in with aid, fertilizer, health care, and the US will lift all the sanctions. It is a dangerous time to be a madman.

[zeek]

Republicans are out to rig the tax system to benefit big corporations and wealthy individuals even more than it already is. The Joint Committee on Taxation found that over the next ten years, Trump's tax plan will raise taxes for households making less than $75,000 a year. It will instantly trigger $400 billion in automatic cuts to Medicare in the next ten years, including $25 billion in the first year alone. I would think this would be a heavy blow to a lot of the people who voted for Trump.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

No doubt there are plenty of instances of sexual harassment by Dems and libs. That doesn't exonerate or give a pass to Trump or Moore. Why don't they apologize like Bush, Franken and now Rose have done? Isn't that the Christian thing to do?

Personally, I don't think Moore has anything to apologize for. I think it's a smear job taking advantage of our present climate. He is not the first conservative to be victimized. Should Clarence Thomas apologize to Professor Hill?

As far as Trump apologizing as a Christian, good luck on both counts.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

This soldier was a member of an elite guard. Sun Tzu said you could see the condition of the entire army from a single soldier. I think it is safe to conclude that these parasites will be wide spread, maybe even the majority of the country. What we are going to see is our special ops kick into high gear trying to get someone to overthrow Kim Jong Un. The deal will probably be -- overthrow Kim, dismantle the nuclear program and China will come in with aid, fertilizer, health care, and the US will lift all the sanctions. It is a dangerous time to be a madman.

I pray you are right. If that happens, you will immediately see all NoKorea convert to Christ.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Republicans are out to rig the tax system to benefit big corporations and wealthy individuals even more than it already is. The Joint Committee on Taxation found that over the next ten years, Trump's tax plan will raise taxes for households making less than $75,000 a year. It will instantly trigger $400 billion in automatic cuts to Medicare in the next ten years, including $25 billion in the first year alone. I would think this would be a heavy blow to a lot of the people who voted for Trump.

For decades I have heard Politicians promise they will help the middle class. They are all liars. I doubt this will be any different.

I remember one year John Boehner promised a tax on the rich all year. Then we woke up on Christmas and the Social Security deduction was raised 2%.

You want to tax the rich? Remove the upper limit on the SS tax!

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

You want to tax the rich? Remove the upper limit on the SS tax!

I agree with you strongly on this point!

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

I agree with you strongly on this point!

And wishing you all a very happy Thanksgiving!

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Personally, I don't think Moore has anything to apologize for. I think it's a smear job taking advantage of our present climate.

Waiting for the smoking gun?

He is not the first conservative to be victimized. Should Clarence Thomas apologize to Professor Hill?

Hell yeah.

As far as Trump apologizing as a Christian, good luck on both counts.

President Thug

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

And wishing you all a very happy Thanksgiving!

Same to you!

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Personally, I don't think Moore has anything to apologize for. I think it's a smear job taking advantage of our present climate. He is not the first conservative to be victimized. Should Clarence Thomas apologize to Professor Hill?

As far as Trump apologizing as a Christian, good luck on both counts.

It seems they are asking him when he began to prey on teenagers. If he responds at all he will be condemned.

That said if he is innocent he has to sue them for defamation and damages. You have an alleged case of forgery and you have security guards and coworkers claiming his reputation as a predator was well known.

He can claim he is innocent because you the statute of limitations has expired, but unless he or the party sues for slander I will not believe him.

[ZNPaaneah]

In one of the fastest and most astonishing turnarounds in the history of energy, building and running new renewable energy is now cheaper than just running existing coal and nuclear plants in many areas. A widely-used yearly benchmarking study — the Levelized Cost of Energy Analysis (LCOE) from the financial firm Lazard Ltd. — reached this stunning conclusion: In many regions “the full-lifecycle costs of building and operating renewables-based projects have dropped below the operating costs alone of conventional generation technologies such as coal or nuclear.”

Prior to this you had to factor in health costs and environmental costs. This is stunning.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

It seems they are asking him when he began to prey on teenagers. If he responds at all he will be condemned.

That said if he is innocent he has to sue them for defamation and damages. You have an alleged case of forgery and you have security guards and coworkers claiming his reputation as a predator was well known.

He can claim he is innocent because you the statute of limitations has expired, but unless he or the party sues for slander I will not believe him.

Yup, Moore has threatened to sue WaPo.

The jury is out on the Roy Moore accusations, but one thing we know, he never fit the classic profile of a pedophile. His accusers are being called liars, and women are starting to stand by him. Like I said, WaPo made the mistake of running their hit piece too early, and now I'm sure they regret it.

What we are learning about Doug Jones, however, will drip drip drip until long after election day. So much for Jonesy the hypocrite protecting young defenseless girls: Accuser in UAB sex abuse case calls out Doug Jones for 'hypocrisy' for his position on Moore accusers

I just watched Janet Porter President of Faith2Action debunk the anti-Moore fake news on MSNBC.

I happened to read that somehow Breitbart News forced WaPo to come out with this story prematurely and ahead of schedule, thus giving Moore and his supporters way too much time to defend himself against the lies.

[awareness]

So Trump broke his silence on Moore and said "We don't need a liberal in there." So the pubbies are willing to take a pedophile scumbag rather than a liberal.

Sounds like something out of bro Ohio's playbook.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

So Trump broke his silence on Moore and said "We don't need a liberal in there." So the pubbies are willing to take a pedophile scumbag rather than a liberal.

Sounds like something out of bro Ohio's playbook.

You are so quick to believe lies and pass judgment.

Doesn't seem like you care for the actual facts of the case.

And then you implicate me!

You may as well include all evangelical Christians too.

I remember how you have said that "Christians lie."

How about these accusers all lying for money?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

You are so quick to believe lies and pass judgment.

Doesn't seem like you care for the actual facts of the case.

And then you implicate me!

You may as well include all evangelical Christians too.

I remember how you have said that "Christians lie."

How about these accusers all lying for money?

It runs much deeper than money in Alabama. Moore is not seen as doing anything wrong.

It's a problem of Christian fundamentalism. They operate from the courtship-purity movement, promoted by the Biblical Patriarchy and Quiverfull movements, widely influential in Christian homeschooling circles.

Girls who are 14 are seen as potential relationship material. Girls are raised to be “pure,” meek, dependent and submissive with the goal of becoming appropriate “help-meets” for much older men. Marriage to the under age girls, by older Christian men, is arranged by fundamentalists parents.

And bro Ohio, Moore is a Christian Reconstructionist. I thought they tried to recruit the church you and your wife were attending ... and you disagreed with them. Have you changed your mind?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

It runs much deeper than money in Alabama. Moore is not seen as doing anything wrong.

It's a problem of Christian fundamentalism. They operate from the courtship-purity movement, promoted by the Biblical Patriarchy and Quiverfull movements, widely influential in Christian homeschooling circles.

Girls who are 14 are seen as potential relationship material. Girls are raised to be “pure,” meek, dependent and submissive with the goal of becoming appropriate “help-meets” for much older men. Marriage to the under age girls, by older Christian men, is arranged by fundamentalists parents.

And bro Ohio, Moore is a Christian Reconstructionist. I thought they tried to recruit the church you and your wife were attending ... and you disagreed with them. Have you changed your mind?

I did change my mind, after I saw her story falling apart, deconstructed by the facts, and so many testifying on behalf of Moore's character, not because of your crazy religious ideas, but because of the way he has handled himself his entire adult life. Read the news. The "new" news.

With their congressional slush fund, providing shush money, no one would dare come after Moore once he is elected. They are all afraid of being outed next.

So ... sorry bro! I know you love it when Christians "crash and burn," but perhaps another time. You will have to settle for a Rand Paul "crash." But no burning for Moore.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

So Trump broke his silence on Moore and said "We don't need a liberal in there." So the pubbies are willing to take a pedophile scumbag rather than a liberal.

Sounds like something out of bro Ohio's playbook.

I don't agree with labeling him as a "pedophile". Predator -- ok, creep -- ok, but I don't think it is fair to label a person a pedophile that hasn't been convicted of that crime.

Also, it is as though you are completely ignoring the political motivation that could have prompted this attack. Personally I believe there must be something to it for there to be so many witnesses. But when it comes to "pedophile" it is simply one 14 year old's testimony versus his. Also, I don't even know the specifics of the law whether or not her allegations would rise to the level of "pedophile".

The only thing that I feel has been confirmed by all people is that he dated teenagers that were 10 or 15 years younger than him.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

[/B]
I did change my mind, after I saw her story falling apart, deconstructed by the facts, and so many testifying on behalf of Moore's character, not because of your crazy religious ideas, but because of the way he has handled himself his entire adult life. Read the news. The "new" news.

We all get our info from news sources. So from where are you getting your facts?

You say his accusers are paid. But Mitch McConnell believes them.

So far there are 8 accusers of Moore. Some of them at least sound credible. He was banned from the mall foe chasing young girls, even a cop came out and said everyone knew Moore went after under age girls. And even the YMCA banned him.

That's a lot of made up facts (good thing Soros has deep pockets). You think your facts are true. From where do you get your facts.

Or is your support not dependent on facts, but on emotion. Are you sure you're not 'infected by a false Christian religious virus?'

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

We all get our info from news sources. So from where are you getting your facts?

You say his accusers are paid. But Mitch McConnell believes them.

So far there are 8 accusers of Moore. Some of them at least sound credible. He was banned from the mall foe chasing young girls, even a cop came out and said everyone knew Moore went after under age girls. And even the YMCA banned him.

That's a lot of made up facts. You think your facts are true. From where do you get your facts.

Or is your support not dependent on facts, but on emotion. Are you sure you're not 'infected by a false Christian religious virus?'

I agree 100% that the mall cop and the YMCA are very strong evidence he was a creep. But the lack of criminal prosecution or even allegations that rise to felony are also proof he wasn't a pedophile.

Unless I am mistaken an unwanted sexual overture is not a felony. It can be viewed as predatory and alarming, but not criminal.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

We all get our info from news sources. So from where are you getting your facts?

You say his accusers are paid. But Mitch McConnell believes them.

You hate ole Mitch. You have never said a kind word about him. You have always called him a liar and that you don't trust a thing he says.

Now you believe him? You guys finally make up?

Your enemy is no longer your enemy cause the enemy of your enemy is now your friend!

Completely understandable!

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

The only thing that I feel has been confirmed by all people is that he dated teenagers that were 10 or 15 years younger than him.

Teenagers who were 18 or 19 years old, right?

And they were probably pretty too!

Nice, outgoing personalities!

Perhaps came from established well-to-do families!

Makes sense. His wife was 14 years younger than him and pretty.

.....................................

Yup. Lock him up!

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Or is your support not dependent on facts, but on emotion. Are you sure you're not 'infected by a false Christian religious virus?'

It always comes back to me being a "stupid" Christian.

We are all infected by some religious "virus."

We are all "against science" and the facts of history.

We are all "blinded" by faith and brain dead.

We are all "emotional" bigots who can't think rationally.

...........................

That has to be the explanation. Right?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

But when it comes to "pedophile" it is simply one 14 year old's testimony versus his. Also, I don't even know the specifics of the law whether or not her allegations would rise to the level of "pedophile".

The accusations of that 14 year old girl are slowly being debunked by the facts.

Court Documents Raise Significant Questions About Leigh Corfman’s Accusations Against Roy Moore

The case against Roy Moore is that he dated pretty, young girls after serving in the military and finishing his law degree. Nothing wrong here. Eventually he found one and married her.

So WaPo had to find one instance of underage dating -- Corfman. And then they had to add salicious data to connect Moore with the like of Harvey Weinstein and these other predators. WaPo needed one good victim!

Can't find one? Then Corfman will have to do. And let's hope the election occurs before the real facts of the case come out.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

You hate ole Mitch. You have never said a kind word about him. You have always called him a liar and that you don't trust a thing he says.

Now you believe him? You guys finally make up?

Your enemy is no longer your enemy cause the enemy of your enemy is now your friend!

Completely understandable!

bahahahaha

Me and Mitcheepoo ... a bromance for the history books.

Yes I don't trust Mitch. For what he did to us between the rivers folks.

I'm just saying, that some believe the accusers. And they are piling up. Now a retired Alabama cop came out and admitted that back then, they were told to keep Roy Moore away from the cheerleaders ... and he reconfirmed the mall banning.

All these accusers? They must be breaking Soros' bank.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

It always comes back to me being a "stupid" Christian.

We are all infected by some religious "virus."

We are all "against science" and the facts of history.

We are all "blinded" by faith and brain dead.

We are all "emotional" bigots who can't think rationally.

...........................

That has to be the explanation. Right?

Well not ALLLLLLLLLLL. But I think that Christians are "infected" in the same percentage as the rest of the human race.

Science? The Scopes trial ... don't forget that.

And who said anything about bigots? But now that you bring it up, I know Christian bigots ... in my extended family. I can't say there is a causal link, but they are republican Fox news watchers ... and like Breitbart. I haven't asked what they think of Roy Moore. But I think I know their position, without asking. They liked that he's a Biblical man of God, that fights for the 10 commandments.

Prolly some of the same reasons for why you are so gung-ho for Moore. At the cost of giving Christianity a bad name.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

I haven't asked what they think of Roy Moore. But I think I know their position, without asking. They liked that he's a Biblical man of God, that fights for the 10 commandments.

Prolly some of the same reasons for why you are so gung-ho for Moore. At the cost of giving Christianity a bad name.

I'm not gung-ho for Moore. I knew very little about Moore until WaPo launched their smear campaign a couple weeks ago. The whole thing stunk to high heaven. Less than one hour after this hit piece came out, your boy Mitch was calling for Moore's head on the platter. Seems like he knew about it ahead of time. Perhaps Mitch funded the hit piece, like Paul Singer did the Trump Dossier.

I waited until some of the facts were vetted before I jumped on the Kill Moore crusade. I have learned when the entire MSM believes something, then good chance they got it wrong. (Kind of like no way Hillary could lose to Trump.) The more I waited, the more his accusers got debunked. None of them were believable compared to all of SwineStein's victims.

How does that give Christianity a bad name when I decide not to believe a lie?

Do you have any idea how manipulating you are in the name of Christ?

You can take the boy out of the LC, but can't take the LC out of the boy!

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I'm not gung-ho for Moore. I knew very little about Moore until WaPo launched their smear campaign a couple weeks ago. The whole thing stunk to high heaven. Less than one hour after this hit piece came out, your boy Mitch was calling for Moore's head on the platter. Seems like he knew about it ahead of time. Perhaps Mitch funded the hit piece, like Paul Singer did the Trump Dossier.

I don't know. Are all these sexual accusations coming to light these days a hit job? I've read some say it's an attack on men.

But I think Mitch's attitude toward Moore is because of Bannon, who's got it out for Mitch, and ain't afraid to broadcast it. I don't like either of them. Nor do I like Moore. Christian Dominionists scare me. Theocracies always go bad. We learned that with witness Lee, if not other places.

Originally Posted by Ohio

I waited until some of the facts were vetted before I jumped on the Kill Moore crusade. I have learned when the entire MSM believes something, then good chance they got it wrong.

MSM, or any other news sources. None of them can get at what's really going on. That's all top secret, and done behind closed doors. They try to keep it secret, but it leaks out. I'm getting leak fatigue.

But Moore wasn't so secret about it. Everybody, seems, knew about him and under age girls (16 is legal in Alabama).

Originally Posted by Ohio

(Kind of like no way Hillary could lose to Trump.) The more I waited, the more his accusers got debunked. None of them were believable compared to all of SwineStein's victims.

How does that give Christianity a bad name when I decide not to believe a lie?

Because you look like you are supporting a scumbag. I would think as a Christian, even if there is the slightest hint of possible sexual misconduct, it would be hands off.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Do you have any idea how manipulating you are in the name of Christ?

Yes.

Originally Posted by Ohio

You can take the boy out of the LC, but can't take the LC out of the boy!

Ain't that the truth.

[zeek]

Roy Moore and the confused identity of today’s “evangelical” voter
37 percent of evangelicals say they’re more likely to support Roy Moore after sexual assault allegations. Here’s why I’m skeptical of that.
Updated by Thomas S. Kidd, distinguished professor of history at Baylor University. Nov 22, 2017, 8:20am EST https://www.vox.com/first-person/201...ngelical-voter

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I'm not gung-ho for Moore. I knew very little about Moore until WaPo launched their smear campaign a couple weeks ago. The whole thing stunk to high heaven. Less than one hour after this hit piece came out, your boy Mitch was calling for Moore's head on the platter. Seems like he knew about it ahead of time. Perhaps Mitch funded the hit piece, like Paul Singer did the Trump Dossier.

One thing we have to all agree on based on the facts is that his opponents knew about his reputation long before the story broke. They intentionally held the story until it would be too late to pull his name from the ballot.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Roy Moore and the confused identity of today’s “evangelical” voter
37 percent of evangelicals say they’re more likely to support Roy Moore after sexual assault allegations. Here’s why I’m skeptical of that.
Updated by Thomas S. Kidd, distinguished professor of history at Baylor University. Nov 22, 2017, 8:20am EST https://www.vox.com/first-person/201...ngelical-voter

Good article. Thanks for posting.

Highlights some of the frustrations I confront with awareness' recent posts.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

One thing we have to all agree on based on the facts is that his opponents knew about his reputation long before the story broke. They intentionally held the story until it would be too late to pull his name from the ballot.

And let's be honest, we all tend to overlook the faults of the candidate whose platform more closely matches our own.

Another point. Most voters, given the time, will look for the "greater good." If I were voting in Alabama, I would have to examine the extreme liberal views of Jones. His support of full term abortions is very troubling. And what about his attacks on that child prodigy who was basically a "plaything," while he defended the University football team. Jones is no friend of the unborn or of the molested minor girls.

How could I as a "evangelical" vote for Jones, when I believe abortion is murder?

[zeek]

Here's a reply I made recently to a friend who posted a Facebook meme proposing that we call Evangelicals the "American Taliban."

"The author contradicts himself by saying at one point that not all evangelicals are extremists and then concluding that evangelicals are the American Taliban. The Taliban are Muslim extremists. It's a similar overgeneralization whereby all Muslims are prejudged because of the extremism of a minority among them. I interact with Evangelicals everyday. Their political opinions run the gamut from right to left. Our country is polarized in way that is creating social dysfunction. Stereotyping like the author engages in are misleading. It's a false equivalency. Evangelicals in general are not extremists like the Taliban. So the meme's proposition is false."

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

And let's be honest, we all tend to overlook the faults of the candidate whose platform more closely matches our own.

Another point. Most voters, given the time, will look for the "greater good." If I were voting in Alabama, I would have to examine the extreme liberal views of Jones. His support of full term abortions is very troubling. And what about his attacks on that child prodigy who was basically a "plaything," while he defended the University football team. Jones is no friend of the unborn or of the molested minor girls.

How could I as a "evangelical" vote for Jones, when I believe abortion is murder?

Some liberals are re-evaluating Bill Clinton in view of the current sexual harassment scandals. For example, recently Senator Kirsten Gillibrand, who holds Hillary Clinton's former seat, said Bill Clinton should have resigned after his relationship with an intern while he was president.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Here's a reply I made recently to a friend who posted a Facebook meme proposing that we call Evangelicals the "American Taliban."

"The author contradicts himself by saying at one point that not all evangelicals are extremists and then concluding that evangelicals are the American Taliban. The Taliban are Muslim extremists. It's a similar overgeneralization whereby all Muslims are prejudged because of the extremism of a minority among them. I interact with Evangelicals everyday. Their political opinions run the gamut from right to left. Our country is polarized in way that is creating social dysfunction. Stereotyping like the author engages in are misleading. It's a false equivalency. Evangelicals in general are not extremists like the Taliban. So the meme's proposition is false."

Last January I visited family. One young lady is a mental health counselor. She had made herself sick over the presidential election. She had a hard time even looking at me since she knew, "I voted for Trump." But several months prior I specifically told her that I did not even vote in the primaries because of the concerns I had. I went there with the intention not to discuss politics.

As a mental health counselor she has been trained to identify her biases and keep them at a distance, yet due to the current toxic political and social climate, she is frankly unable. This is concerning. Since she lives in the liberal NYC area, her bias is not so evident, but here in the midwest, she definitely could not practice.

This is why main stream media is so dangerous. They are stirring social unrest. They are no longer journalists caring for accurate reporting. They are strictly purveyors of liberal opinions designed to create tension in America. They purposely use inflammatory rhetoric to incite their audience, e.g. like the recent connection of Trump to Charles Manson.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Last January I visited family. One young lady is a mental health counselor. She had made herself sick over the presidential election. She had a hard time even looking at me since she knew, "I voted for Trump." But several months prior I specifically told her that I did not even vote in the primaries because of the concerns I had. I went there with the intention not to discuss politics.

As a mental health counselor she has been trained to identify her biases and keep them at a distance, yet due to the current toxic political and social climate, she is frankly unable. This is concerning. Since she lives in the liberal NYC area, her bias is not so evident, but here in the midwest, she definitely could not practice.

This is why main stream media is so dangerous. They are stirring social unrest. They are no longer journalists caring for accurate reporting. They are strictly purveyors of liberal opinions designed to create tension in America. They purposely use inflammatory rhetoric to incite their audience, e.g. like the recent connection of Trump to Charles Manson.

That's no more of a problem on the Left then it is in Right-wing media. Plus, now we have the new problem of the Russians intentionally pumping Fake News into social media in order to foster distrust. One has to be able to think critically to thread one's way through the mine-field of information and disinformation that's out there every day. Often that means withholding judgment on issues because you recognize that you JUST DON'T KNOW. People often don't like to do that.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

That's no more of a problem on the Left then it is in Right-wing media. Plus, now we have the new problem of the Russians intentionally pumping Fake News into social media in order to foster distrust. One has to be able to think critically to thread one's way through the mine-field of information and disinformation that's out there every day. Often that means withholding judgment on issues because you recognize that you JUST DON'T KNOW. People often don't like to do that.

Let's hope for many Thanksgiving celebrations across the country embracing friends and family and free from political and football controversies.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

Roy Moore and the confused identity of today’s “evangelical” voter
37 percent of evangelicals say they’re more likely to support Roy Moore after sexual assault allegations. Here’s why I’m skeptical of that.
Updated by Thomas S. Kidd, distinguished professor of history at Baylor University. Nov 22, 2017, 8:20am EST https://www.vox.com/first-person/201...ngelical-voter

"Take a stand for God?"

Bahahahaha ... and bro Ohio wonders why I'm critical of Christians.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

"Take a stand for God?"

Bahahahaha ... and bro Ohio wonders why I'm critical of Christians.

So ... looking at worst case scenarios ...

What is worse to you?

Dating young girls or the slaughter of the unborn?

.............................

I think in your mind Christians should only vote for sinless and perfect candidates, iow, never vote at all!

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

So ... looking at worst case scenarios ...

What is worse to you?

Dating young girls or the slaughter of the unborn?

.............................

I think in your mind Christians should only vote for sinless and perfect candidates, iow, never vote at all!

A false ethical dilemma. One can choose to support neither. My inner Protestant counsels against the perfectionism that my inner Pagan is inclined to pursue. Historically the pursuit of purity led to Nazism. There is more of a touch of perfectionism in the LCM.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

So ... looking at worst case scenarios ...

What is worse to you?

Dating young girls or the slaughter of the unborn?

Sure, care about 'em in the womb, but not afterward.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

A false ethical dilemma. One can choose to support neither. My inner Protestant counsels against the perfectionism that my inner Pagan is inclined to pursue. Historically the pursuit of purity led to Nazism. There is more of a touch of perfectionism in the LCM.

Not a false ethical dilemma for the voters of Alabama.

This is the exact choose many are faced with.

The false dilemma is the left's constant connection of Nazism with the right.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Sure, care about 'em in the womb, but not afterward.

Bogus.

The former is terminal. Abortion is final.

If Jones cared at all for the "afterwards," then he would not have attacked the rape victim to protect the University.

The Left cares nothing for the "afterwards" as we see everyday in the news. It's too bad their hypocrisy is so hard for you to see thru.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Not a false ethical dilemma for the voters of Alabama.

This is the exact choose many are faced with.

The false dilemma is the left's constant connection of Nazism with the right.

I thought the Unite the Right did that. And they aren't left.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

One thing we have to all agree on based on the facts is that his opponents knew about his reputation long before the story broke. They intentionally held the story until it would be too late to pull his name from the ballot.

If the concern was for the women then they would have exposed this as soon as possible. Waiting until it was too late to take his name off the ballot demonstrates 0 concern for the women. This was 100% political. The only way a democrat wins this race.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

If the concern was for the women then they would have exposed this as soon as possible. Waiting until it was too late to take his name off the ballot demonstrates 0 concern for the women. This was 100% political. The only way a democrat wins this race.

They are investigating millions into opposition research to smear Moore.

This has all the same characteristics as the Russian Dossier to smear Trump.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by awareness

Sure, care about 'em in the womb, but not afterward.

Roy Moore's candidacy represents a double slam on women. He advocates taking away a woman's right to choose and ignoring women who testify that he sexually assaulted them when they were children. Woman bashing in the name of the Bible seems to be a pretty consistent theme for this guy.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

Roy Moore's candidacy represents a double slam on women. He advocates taking away a woman's right to choose and ignoring women who testify that he sexually assaulted them when they were children. Woman bashing in the name of the Bible seems to be a pretty consistent theme for this guy.

Well prolly Moore has a small penis. And that's why he wants little girls. His religious posturing is just sublimating for his manly lack. Controlling women is the fruit of it, making women subservient ... like the Bible says.

It reminds me of the Southern Baptists, using the Bible in support of slavery.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Roy Moore's candidacy represents a double slam on women. He advocates taking away a woman's right to choose and ignoring women who testify that he sexually assaulted them when they were children. Woman bashing in the name of the Bible seems to be a pretty consistent theme for this guy.

A "woman's right to choose" can NEVER be a legitimate right, and is definitely NOT included in "certain unalienable Rights," endowed by our Creator, since they require the death of another person with "certain unalienable Rights," also endowed by our Creator. Our constitutional rights always end when another's life is endangered.

Abortion is true fascism -- the powers that be determining who is allowed to live and who is not.

Trump is not a fascist, but abortion advocates might be

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

A "woman's right to choose" can NEVER be a legitimate right, and is definitely NOT included in "certain unalienable Rights," endowed by our Creator, since they require the death of another person with "certain unalienable Rights," also endowed by our Creator. Our constitutional rights always end when another's life is endangered.

Abortion is true fascism -- the powers that be determining who is allowed to live and who is not

No, each women decides. And they have the right to do so. And there's no "person" in there. The baby is not a person until it comes out. Then it has rights, but even then not as much rights as mom, and dad, have over the child.

And the Bible very early on tells we're not a living soul until the first breath. Genesis 2:7.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

It reminds me of the Southern Baptists, using the Bible in support of slavery.

There are a couple of very important principles here that go far beyond Alabama politics.

1. All of these abuse claims, not just Moore but also Weinstein, Franken, etc generally boil down to "he said, she said". Therefore you shouldn't discount it or dismiss it simply because this is the type of evidence. On the contrary, the predators understand this which is why they have the boldness to pull this stuff. Instead the Biblical standard that I think applies here is 2 or 3 witnesses as a bare minimum. Whenever we see a sexual predator like Weinstein there will be multiple cases, not a single case.

2. Political campaigns are about destroying credibility, especially if you are in a campaign where no one in your party has won in many years. The only possible chance the democrat had was if Moore self destructed. You should expect that they will turn molehills into mountains. When these stories come out right after the deadline to change names on the ballot they should be especially suspect. If we begin to eliminate candidates based on hearsay and allegations then these campaigns will become even uglier.

3. There are facts in this case that can be used to inform voters. One fact is that Moore has never been charged with this crime of pedophilia, much less convicted. Another fact is that the Mall was on the lookout for him seeing him as someone that targeted teenage girls. Based on that you can reasonably conclude that he was a creep, but that it didn't rise to the level of a case that a prosecutor would prosecute. However, the discourse on this is quite different, many willing to call him a "pedophile" even though he was never convicted of this crime.

4. It is important to weigh the evidence and discuss the evidence in order to make an informed decision, but most of those who have shaped the discourse clearly are biased on one side or the other. This is quite evident concerning the media's reporting.

5. One of the ugliest allegations is that a "vote for Roy Moore is a vote for sexual predators". The inference is that democrats are concerned about women while republicans aren't. If the allegations that Roy Moore was a sexual predator are true it would mean that women, many women, have known this for 30+ years. However, they did not come forward until well into this campaign, so far in fact that it was no longer possible to drop his name. This is not evidence that they care about women, but rather they would risk a predator being elected if it gives them a better chance of gaining a seat. Someone who truly cared about women would have raised this issue earlier.

[zeek]

I read that support for Roy Moore has fallen in every voter sector except among evangelical Christians. What does that say to the world?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

No, each women decides. And they have the right to do so. And there's no "person" in there. The baby is not a person until it comes out. Then it has rights, but even then not as much rights as mom, and dad, have over the child.

And the Bible very early on tells we're not a living soul until the first breath. Genesis 2:7.

How is it that you believe only in the scientific evolution of man, and now consider that human life begins with the breath of God?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

I read that support for Roy Moore has fallen in every voter sector except among evangelical Christians. What does that say to the world?

Perhaps those who regularly confront the stratagems of the devil are more apt to see thru a Bezos/WaPo smear campaign.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Perhaps those who regularly confront the stratagems of the devil are more apt to see thru a Bezos/WaPo smear campaign.

Experience has taught me that, when pursuing the truth, demonizing others isn't helpful.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Perhaps those who regularly confront the stratagems of the devil are more apt to see thru a Bezos/WaPo smear campaign.

You forgot to list The Alabama Local News (www.al.com). The stratagems of the devil has broken new accusers there too.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

You forgot to list The Alabama Local News (www.al.com). The stratagems of the devil has broken new accusers there too.

If you were still evangelical, perhaps you would exhibit a little discernment too.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

If you were still evangelical, perhaps you would exhibit a little discernment too.

I'd prolly still be an evangelical if their discernment's were actually up to snuff. I long ago discovered their discernment wasn't any better than those of unbelievers.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

I read that support for Roy Moore has fallen in every voter sector except among evangelical Christians. What does that say to the world?

It tells me that his stance on abortion is the major issue for them.

If you are so concerned with finding the truth and not demonizing others then surely you can realize that the Supreme court has no authority to make laws. There was nothing in the Constitution concerning abortion, therefore it should have been a states right to decide.

The decision in Roe V Wade was unconstitutional. That is the underlying cause of all this ugly division.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

I read that support for Roy Moore has fallen in every voter sector except among evangelical Christians. What does that say to the world?

Sounds like progressive talking points ...

Oh those evil white men who believe in God!

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

I'd prolly still be an evangelical if their discernment's were actually up to snuff. I long ago discovered their discernment wasn't any better than those of unbelievers.

So you found out that evangelicals believe that life starts at conception?

[ZNPaaneah]

"Over 1.3 million anti-net neutrality FCC comments are likely fakes"

Apparently Russia is not the only one using their resources to manipulate public opinion.

"Out of 22 million total comments, only 800,000 appear to be genuinely original -- and 99 percent of them support net neutrality."

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

So you found out that evangelicals believe that life starts at conception?

No, I found that out later, about evangelicals. Oddly, my fundamentalist mother was against abortion, but stilled supported a woman's right to chose.

Then, I found out that they believe that life begins with the appetizer.

I kid. But they do believe life begins with conception. However, biologically, life doesn't begin, it just continues.

I think a few things about abortion.

1) One penis, no vote. The best a male evangelical can do is keep it in his pants.

2) Those that feel strongly about abortion should move out of any country where abortion is legal, and move to a country where it is illegal ; like the Vatican, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Dominican Republic, or Chile.

3) About 80,000 women die each year, from unsafe abortions, in countries where it's illegal. Once again, care about them in the womb, but not after they are born ; they have rights in the womb, but not when they are grown.

4) We can't tell women what to do with their bodies. Make it illegal and they will still find a way, and many will die from it, including the preborn. And I suppose you're fine with that, for the woman, but not for the preborn.

And bro Ohio, unless your wife is pregnant, and considering an abortion, you don't have a dog in this fight.

Let it go, or move.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

It tells me that his stance on abortion is the major issue for them.

If you are so concerned with finding the truth and not demonizing others then surely you can realize that the Supreme court has no authority to make laws. There was nothing in the Constitution concerning abortion, therefore it should have been a states right to decide.

The decision in Roe V Wade was unconstitutional. That is the underlying cause of all this ugly division.

Amen! Amen! and another Amen!

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

It tells me that his stance on abortion is the major issue for them.

If you are so concerned with finding the truth and not demonizing others then surely you can realize that the Supreme court has no authority to make laws. There was nothing in the Constitution concerning abortion, therefore it should have been a states right to decide.

The decision in Roe V Wade was unconstitutional. That is the underlying cause of all this ugly division.

That pesky 14th amendment. It's been a thorn in the side of fundamentalist's since shorty after the civil war. First with the slaves, then racial segregation, then Roe v. Wade, and then same sex marriage.

But it doesn't say anything about fondling 14 year old girls ... even with the permission of their mother.

Why? Because, everyone knows it's wrong, except, apparently, evangelicals ... then it's Mary, and Elizabeth, did it.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

It tells me that his stance on abortion is the major issue for them.

If you are so concerned with finding the truth and not demonizing others then surely you can realize that the Supreme court has no authority to make laws. There was nothing in the Constitution concerning abortion, therefore it should have been a states right to decide.

The decision in Roe V Wade was unconstitutional. That is the underlying cause of all this ugly division.

Roe v. Wade, 410 U.S. 113 (1972) was concerned with the constitutionality of state criminal abortion statutes under the 14th Amendment's concept of personal liberty and restrictions on state action and the 9th Amendment's reservation of rights to the people. In the opinion of the Court:

It is thus apparent that, at common law, at the time of the adoption of our Constitution, and throughout the major portion of the 19th century, abortion was viewed with less disfavor than under most American statutes currently in effect. Phrasing it another way, a woman enjoyed a substantially broader right to terminate a pregnancy than she does in most States today. At least with respect to the early stage of pregnancy, and very possibly without such a limitation, the opportunity to make this choice was present in this country well into the 19th century. Even later, the law continued for some time to treat less punitively an abortion procured in early pregnancy.

So, the Supreme Court didn't make any laws, and the opinion of the Court was constitutional.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

That pesky 14th amendment. It's been a thorn in the side of fundamentalist's since shorty after the civil war. First with the slaves, then racial segregation, then Roe v. Wade, and then same sex marriage.

But it doesn't say anything about fondling 14 year old girls ... even with the permission of their mother.

Why? Because, everyone knows it's wrong, except, apparently, evangelicals ... then it's Mary, and Elizabeth, did it.

Yes, everyone knows it is wrong. There are other things that are wrong as well. Convicting a man without a trial. Slander, libel are two others.

If the choice was between an innocent and guilty man then you would have an argument. Problem is the choice is between two guilty parties. That is the problem with your argument, you point out the guilt of one side and ignore the guilt of the other.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

Roe v. Wade, 410 U.S. 113 (1972) was concerned with the constitutionality of state criminal abortion statutes under the 14th Amendment's concept of personal liberty and restrictions on state action and the 9th Amendment's reservation of rights to the people. In the opinion of the Court:



So, the Supreme Court didn't make any laws, and the opinion of the Court was constitutional.

The opinion of the court was that a woman's right to an abortion was constitutionally supported based on a vague reading to the "right to privacy". The law concerning unreasonable searches was used to cover the right to abortion. So the same people who complain with the constitutional "right to bear arms" are the same who can justify abortion using the protection against unreasonable search without a warrant. That to me is the height of hypocrisy.

Think of the irony that the restrictions on abortion are tighter and more stringent now than prior to the ruling. If the Supreme court had simply argued that this is a state's rights issue what would have happened? Some states would have outlawed it, perhaps Texas would be in that category, hard to tell. Some states would have put in restrictions and regulations, probably NY and California would be in that category. Some states would have legalized it completely, perhaps Nevada, etc. But you would have taken the rug out from any who would protest. Against abortion, move to where it is illegal. For abortion, what is the big issue, if you don't want to move simply go out of state when necessary.

Not only would this have put a stop to most protests, it would have also eliminated it from the discourse in national politics. Congressmen, Senators and presidents would not need to say anything more than "that is a state's right issue". As for local politicians it could easily have become a referendum issue, just like legalizing Pot or some other topic.

So instead of blaming Evangelicals why not look in the mirror? The man in the mirror is the only one you have authority to change. Blaming Evangelicals suggest to me you aren't really serious about a solution.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Perhaps LSM did have such a fund, plus they had the legal defense team to go after the victims.

Not to mention utilizing peer pressure. Just take the cross. It's not a good testimony for a Christian to seek vindication through legal means.

As it happened not only with Philip, but another Lee son to be sent back to Taiwan. It was the offended party that were sent away from Southern California to San Fran.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

The opinion of the court was that a woman's right to an abortion was constitutionally supported based on a vague reading to the "right to privacy". The law concerning unreasonable searches was used to cover the right to abortion. So the same people who complain with the constitutional "right to bear arms" are the same who can justify abortion using the protection against unreasonable search without a warrant. That to me is the height of hypocrisy.

Think of the irony that the restrictions on abortion are tighter and more stringent now than prior to the ruling. If the Supreme court had simply argued that this is a state's rights issue what would have happened? Some states would have outlawed it, perhaps Texas would be in that category, hard to tell. Some states would have put in restrictions and regulations, probably NY and California would be in that category. Some states would have legalized it completely, perhaps Nevada, etc. But you would have taken the rug out from any who would protest. Against abortion, move to where it is illegal. For abortion, what is the big issue, if you don't want to move simply go out of state when necessary.

Not only would this have put a stop to most protests, it would have also eliminated it from the discourse in national politics. Congressmen, Senators and presidents would not need to say anything more than "that is a state's right issue". As for local politicians it could easily have become a referendum issue, just like legalizing Pot or some other topic.

So instead of blaming Evangelicals why not look in the mirror? The man in the mirror is the only one you have authority to change. Blaming Evangelicals suggest to me you aren't really serious about a solution.

Put down the crack pipe man. I didn't blame Evangelicals for anything. It was a statement of putative fact. I read it in several periodicals including the WSJ.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

Put down the crack pipe man. I didn't blame Evangelicals for anything. It was a statement of putative fact. I read it in several periodicals including the WSJ.

Well, if the WSJ says it then we can't question it.

The US is a republic founded on a constitution. If the powers that be ignore or twist that constitution then it is unreasonable to assume they will not reap the wind.

They thought they could put it behind them, they didn't. They thought it would resolve the matter, it didn't.

What is the fear in making this a state's right issue? A simple solution that would immediately remove it from all political campaigns for national office.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

The US is a republic founded on a constitution. If the powers that be ignore or twist that constitution then it is unreasonable to assume they will not reap the wind.

Have you not heard in liberal circles that the constitution is a "living document?"

It has to be changed because the Founders never envisioned things like cell phones and the internet. Thus saith Al Gore, notable carbon bigfoot.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Terry

Not to mention utilizing peer pressure. Just take the cross. It's not a good testimony for a Christian to seek vindication through legal means.

As it happened not only with Philip, but another Lee son to be sent back to Taiwan. It was the offended party that were sent away from Southern California to San Fran.

Exactly. It was all unrighteous.

LSM crowns Lee as the consummate MOTA, like unto Noah of old. But there's a slight problem here folks ... Noah was a righteous man and blameless. (Gen 6.9)

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

That pesky 14th amendment. It's been a thorn in the side of fundamentalist's since shorty after the civil war. First with the slaves, then racial segregation, then Roe v. Wade, and then same sex marriage.

But it doesn't say anything about fondling 14 year old girls ... even with the permission of their mother.

Does it say anything about rich liberals paying loose women to bring forth false charges? Without the permission of her mother?

[Ohio]

The three fundamental problems with Roe v. Wade

1. Unjust

First, and most importantly, the outcome of Roe is harmful and unjust. Why? The facts of embryology show that the human embryo or fetus (the being whose life is ended in abortion) is a distinct and living human organism at the earliest stages of development. "Human development begins at fertilization when a sperm fuses with an oocyte to form a single cell, a zygote," explains a leading embryology textbook. "This highly specialized, totipotent cell marks the beginning of each of us as a unique individual."

Justice requires that the law protect the equal dignity and basic rights of every member of the human family—irrespective of age, size, ability, dependency, and the desires and decisions of others. This principle of human equality, affirmed in the Declaration of Independence and the United Nations' Universal Declaration of Human Rights, is the moral core of western civilization. But the Roe Court ruled, to the contrary, that a particular class of innocent human beings (the unborn) must be excluded from the protection of the law and allowed to be dismembered and killed at the discretion of others. "The right created by the Supreme Court in Roe," observes University of St. Thomas law professor Michael Stokes Paulsen, "is a constitutional right of some human beings to kill other human beings."

After Roe, the incidence of abortion rose dramatically, quickly topping one million abortions per year and peaking at 1.6 million in 1990 before gradually declining to just under one million in 2014 (the latest year for which complete estimates are available). Under the Roe regime, abortion is the leading cause of human death. More than 59 million human beings have now been legally killed. And abortion has detrimentally impacted the health and well-being of many women (and men). The gravity and scale of this injustice exceed that of any other issue or concern in American society today.

2. Unconstitutional

The second problem with Roe is that it is an epic constitutional mistake. Justice Harry Blackmun's majority opinion claimed that the "right of privacy" found in the "liberty" protected by the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment is "broad enough to encompass" a fundamental right to abortion. There is no reason to think that's true.

"What is frightening about Roe," noted the eminent constitutional scholar and Yale law professor John Hart Ely (who personally supported legalized abortion), "is that this super-protected right is not inferable from the language of the Constitution, the framers' thinking respecting the specific problem in issue, any general value derivable from the provisions they included, or the nation's governmental structure. … It is bad because it is bad constitutional law, or rather because it is not constitutional law and gives almost no sense of an obligation to try to be."

Indeed, "[a]s a matter of constitutional interpretation and judicial method," writes Edward Lazarus, a former Blackmun clerk who is "utterly committed" to legalized abortion, "Roe borders on the indefensible. ... Justice Blackmun's opinion provides essentially no reasoning in support of its holding. And in the … years since Roe's announcement, no one has produced a convincing defense of Roe on its own terms."

But Roe is even more ridiculous than most observers realize. The American people adopted the Fourteenth Amendment during an era in which those same American people enacted numerous state laws with the primary purpose of protecting unborn children from abortion. A century later, Roe ruled that the Fourteenth Amendment somehow prevents Americans from doing what the ratifiers of the Fourteenth Amendment actually did. "To reach its result," Justice William Rehnquist quipped in his dissenting opinion, "the Court necessarily has had to find within the scope of the Fourteenth Amendment a right that was apparently completely unknown to the drafters of the Amendment."

That's absurd. "The only conclusion possible from this history," Rehnquist explained, "is that the drafters did not intend to have the Fourteenth Amendment withdraw from the States the power to legislate with respect to this matter."

3. Undemocratic

Third, Roe is undemocratic. Roe and Doe v. Bolton together struck down the democratically decided abortion laws of all 50 states and replaced them with a nationwide policy of abortion-for-any-reason, whether the people like it or not. Of course, the Court may properly invalidate statutes that are inconsistent with the Constitution (which is the highest law). But Roe lacked any such justification.

Justice Byron White, a dissenter in Roe, explained the problem in his dissent in Thornburgh v. American College of Obstetricians & Gynecologists. "[T]he Constitution itself is ordained and established by the people of the United States," he wrote. "[D]ecisions that find in the Constitution principles or values that cannot fairly be read into that document usurp the people's authority, for such decisions represent choices that the people have never made, and that they cannot disavow through corrective legislation." Roe defied the Constitution and other laws that the American people agreed upon—and imposed the will of the unelected Court instead.

[Ohio]

Court Documents: Roy Moore Accuser Has ‘Violent Nature,’ History of Criminal Fraud Against Own Family

The liberal media will stoop down to new lows in their efforts to subvert the democratic process in Alabama.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Yes, everyone knows it is wrong. There are other things that are wrong as well. Convicting a man without a trial. Slander, libel are two others.

If the choice was between an innocent and guilty man then you would have an argument. Problem is the choice is between two guilty parties. That is the problem with your argument, you point out the guilt of one side and ignore the guilt of the other.

In politics, with so many being accused, all you have to say is that it's politically motivated and you're in free.

When can we kick politicians out of office? Seems never. Weinstein's career is ended, Kevin Spacey too. Hollywood is falling apart. But Franken is okay. John Conyers steps down from committee, but isn't going to resign ... or get kicked out. There's lots of examples, on both sides if the isle. Politicians can keep their jobs, while others that are politicians lose their job.

Or they then go on to get a good lobbying job, their own TV or radio show, or work for Fox news, MSNBC, or some other high paying job.

Politics has always been dirty, but it's now too dirty for any earnest Christian to be a part of.

But that's not stopping Christians today. They seem fine with immorality, as long as their party wins.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

In politics, with so many being accused, all you have to say is that it's politically motivated and you're in free.

Politics has always been dirty, but it's now too dirty for any earnest Christian to be a part of.

But that's not stopping Christians today. They seem fine with immorality, as long as their party wins.

Why is it you never miss an opportunity to take a shot at innocent Christians, and who they supposedly voted for? A troubling pattern is emerging. Are not you and zeek also Christians? Did you ever vote? Please tell me which party has never had a dirty politician? So now you must also answer to your own accusations.

We must also consider who the accusers are. When a politician molests his own staff, hired due to a similar ideological / political basis, then it is safe to say that their accusations are probably not a political hit job. When we have incriminating evidence like pictures, it also adds credibility to their claims.

Roy Moore has neither of those against him. These women never "came forward" with charges. Wealthy liberal opposition investigators sought out women to make charges. There are now all sorts of reports of reporters in Alabama today looking for anybody to trash Moore. For a price. Every day there is also another counter-report, filled with actual facts, rebutting these claims. All manner of character witnesses are stepping forward on Moore's behalf.

This is completely the opposite of Hollywood and the latest Franken/Conyer accusations. Then we hear about these Congressional "shush" funds. Don't they always say "follow the money?" Where is the money trail incriminating Moore? Doug Jones is outspending him by record numbers, and still the voters have not abandoned him. Why is that? Your only answer is that they are Cretin evangelicals.

Perhaps another answer exists. Perhaps they can smell a rat? Lots of them! Outside media types with money and an agenda?

Don't you just love it when all these atheist liberals clamor to the conservative or God-fearing about there being a "special place in hell" for them. One dingbat even pronounced this judgment upon all women who did NOT vote for Hillary. And they wonder why the conservatives never listen to them. (Including Ivanka.)

[awareness]

I hate to admit it, but I agree with the archbishop of Canterbury.

Archbishop of Canterbury baffled by Christians who back Trump

"There's two things going through my mind: Do I say what I think, or do I say what I should say? And I'm going to say what I think," he said on the show, referring to the support Trump has garnered, especially from so-called Evangelical Christians. "No, I don't understand it. I really genuinely do not understand where that is coming from."

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

In politics, with so many being accused, all you have to say is that it's politically motivated and you're in free.

When can we kick politicians out of office? Seems never. Weinstein's career is ended, Kevin Spacey too. Hollywood is falling apart. But Franken is okay. John Conyers steps down from committee, but isn't going to resign ... or get kicked out. There's lots of examples, on both sides if the isle. Politicians can keep their jobs, while others that are politicians lose their job.

Or they then go on to get a good lobbying job, their own TV or radio show, or work for Fox news, MSNBC, or some other high paying job.

Politics has always been dirty, but it's now too dirty for any earnest Christian to be a part of.

But that's not stopping Christians today. They seem fine with immorality, as long as their party wins.

It is the old "lesser of two evils" choice. When faced with that I chose not to vote determining that the best outcome was one in which no one voted, hence no legitimacy to the winner. But for one party or the other this strategy would be suicide.

So then the Christian is faced with two evils -- vote for abortion, or vote for a man accused of being a creep. If you take abortion off the table (make it a State's rights issue) you would see that many Christians would begin to vote democrat.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

So then the Christian is faced with two evils -- vote for abortion, or vote for a man accused of being a creep. If you take abortion off the table (make it a State's rights issue) you would see that many Christians would begin to vote democrat.

But ... wait a minute ZNP.

Moore was only accused. Since it will never go before a jury, we must weigh the accusers against other witnesses.

Don't you teach at a NYC high school? What if you were falsely accused of sexual impropriety by three girls whom you happened to fail in a test. The three went to the local news and your picture was plastered on the New York Times. Fellow teachers threatened to resign in protest unless you were immediately fired. Teachers were up in arms, a public relations nightmare.

Slowly over time you had to prove not only that it didn't happen, but that it couldn't happen. Meanwhile you start racking up legal bills, and since you don't qualify for unemployment, you have no money coming in. What if your union officials decided not to back you for some personal reason. Six months later you are acquitted of molesting underage girls. Your name and reputation are sullied. Your friends look at you suspiciously.

Pretty nasty huh? Think about the Duke Lacrosse team. Herman Cain, Clarence Thomas, and many others.

The evidence is mounting that these accusations are a political hit job. I'm a little surprised you, with your forensics background, were so quick to tag him a pig and a creep.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

But ... wait a minute ZNP.

Moore was only accused. Since it will never go before a jury, we must weigh the accusers against other witnesses.

Don't you teach at a NYC high school? What if you were falsely accused of sexual impropriety by three girls whom you happened to fail in a test. The three went to the local news and your picture was plastered on the New York Times. Fellow teachers threatened to resign in protest unless you were immediately fired. Teachers were up in arms, a public relations nightmare.

Slowly over time you had to prove not only that it didn't happen, but that it couldn't happen. Meanwhile you start racking up legal bills, and since you don't qualify for unemployment, you have no money coming in. What if your union officials decided not to back you for some personal reason. Six months later you are acquitted of molesting underage girls. Your name and reputation are sullied. Your friends look at you suspiciously.

Pretty nasty huh? Think about the Duke Lacrosse team. Herman Cain, Clarence Thomas, and many others.

The evidence is mounting that these accusations are a political hit job. I'm a little surprised you, with your forensics background, were so quick to tag him a pig and a creep.

There is a process for this. It is called "the rubber room". Teachers accused go to this room, punch in at 8, punch out at 3. There they wait until their case is heard. Also, I would not rack up legal bills, I am a member of a union and legal defense is provided by lawyers fully experienced and versed in this kind of thing. If they did "plaster my picture" in the news then I would also have a very good case for slander and libel should I win my case.

This would certainly cost me at least 1 year. But during that time I am paid and accrue other benefits as well. If my colleagues were demanding that I be fired I would be outraged and would no longer work at that school. Most likely choosing to retire once this was all over. Provided I was exonerated I would get a full pension and then could begin working at a number of other options for teachers while at the same time receiving my pension.

I would not be required to prove anything more than I am not guilty "beyond a reasonable doubt". However, if my name and reputation were sullied and it was tough to get one of the many other jobs available that would add more fuel to the lawsuit for libel and defamation.

Because of the potential liability schools try to keep these charges as quiet as possible while they go through the due process. However, what is fair game is if the girls went to the police and the police felt there was enough evidence to arrest the teacher. The newspaper and media are free to publish the fact that someone was arrested, etc. However, if a Grand Jury determines there is not enough evidence to indict then the police and newspaper could be liable and would likely settle rather than go to court. This is why I don't feel sorry for the Duke Lacrosse team, check out the settlement that Rolling Stone magazine had to pay, not to mention the rights to the story and movie.

Also, as it pertains to this case there are 40 other teachers in my school who work closely with for many years. They could testify whether or not they observed any behavior that would support the girls testimony or refute it. Likewise, there is a record of every girl I ever taught since my class rosters are a matter of public record. Therefore the Defense or Prosecution could track down and see if any of the other girls also observed this behavior. If I had 20 students and teachers claiming these charges are BS the girls would be completely shamed. On the other hand if all the other teachers said that "this teacher liked to hang out with the girls" and the teacher's students said the same, then that would certainly not help this teacher's case.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

There is a process for this. It is called "the rubber room". Teachers accused go to this room, punch in at 8, punch out at 3. There they wait until their case is heard. Also, I would not rack up legal bills, I am a member of a union and legal defense is provided by lawyers fully experienced and versed in this kind of thing. If they did "plaster my picture" in the news then I would also have a very good case for slander and libel should I win my case.

This would certainly cost me at least 1 year. But during that time I am paid and accrue other benefits as well. If my colleagues were demanding that I be fired I would be outraged and would no longer work at that school. Most likely choosing to retire once this was all over. Provided I was exonerated I would get a full pension and then could begin working at a number of other options for teachers while at the same time receiving my pension.

How nice. Most of America does not enjoy such benefits.

I guess you can just go ahead calling him a creep then.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

How nice. Most of America does not enjoy such benefits.

I guess you can just go ahead calling him a creep then.

This is why we have unions, so that the threat of frivolous lawsuit or abusive principals doesn't destroy many innocent careers. I pay a monthly fee for this, just like paying for insurance.

Recently we began to be rated by our students results on exams. I love this because the politics of bad principals can no longer threaten you.

If his claim that this is completely false is true then he has a very good case for a lawsuit. If he pursues it he can clear his name, just as the Duke Lacrosse team. If he doesn't then yes, I'll continue calling him a creep.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

This is why we have unions, so that the threat of frivolous lawsuit or abusive principals doesn't destroy many innocent careers. I pay a monthly fee for this, just like paying for insurance.

Recently we began to be rated by our students results on exams. I love this because the politics of bad principals can no longer threaten you.

If his claim that this is completely false is true then he has a very good case for a lawsuit. If he pursues it he can clear his name, just as the Duke Lacrosse team. If he doesn't then yes, I'll continue calling him a creep.

[Engineers don't have unions. Neither do lawyers.]

But Moore is a Christian, so what if he is convicted by I Cor 6 not to sue these women? And if he won, would he really clear his name?

Damned if he does, damned if he don't. Always a creep eh?

OK, perhaps I'm finished with this topic.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

[Engineers don't have unions. Neither do lawyers.]

But Moore is a Christian, so what if he is convicted by I Cor 6 not to sue these women? And if he won, would he really clear his name?

Damned if he does, damned if he don't. Always a creep eh?

OK, perhaps I'm finished with this topic.

If he proved that the signature on the yearbook was forged (something that could be done definitively) it would prove beyond any reasonable doubt that this was a political attack based on lies. Those that do this would be exposed and it would go a long way to helping others that might be attacked in the future. The lawsuit could be funded and carried out by the Republican party so that he wouldn't have to pay or spend that much time with it. However, no one would believe that this was conceived of and carried out by the alleged victim. You convict the democratic campaign and they will pay millions to the Republican party and be forever disgraced in Alabama.

There is no reason not to go through with that unless he knows it isn't a fraud.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

If he proved that the signature on the yearbook was forged (something that could be done definitively) it would prove beyond any reasonable doubt that this was a political attack based on lies. Those that do this would be exposed and it would go a long way to helping others that might be attacked in the future. The lawsuit could be funded and carried out by the Republican party so that he wouldn't have to pay or spend that much time with it. However, no one would believe that this was conceived of and carried out by the alleged victim. You convict the democratic campaign and they will pay millions to the Republican party and be forever disgraced in Alabama.

There is no reason not to go through with that unless he knows it isn't a fraud.

Atty Allred won't release that yearbook for analysis. You know that.

Moore is running as a Republican, but the Party won't back him, in fact numerous Republican Senators want him to step down and thus give Alabama to the Democratic Party. Unbelievable!

The Never-Trumpers are now the Never-Moore's.

Pretty incredible! Look at what McConnell did -- immediately (within one hour) he asked for Moore to withdraw, but with Franken he only wants an Ethics Committee investigation, where matters like this reside until the heat passes over. McConnell is now Majority Leader of the Grand Old Swamp Party.

[awareness]

O'Keefe strikes again ... a swing and a miss. Right wing attempt to discredit WaPo.

WaPo Busts James O’Keefe’s Failed Attempt to Fool Them With Fake Roy Moore Accuser
https://www.mediaite.com/online/wash...moore-accuser/

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Atty Allred won't release that yearbook for analysis. You know that.

If there is a trial there would be no choice -- without producing it he would be found guilty of forgery, fraud, libel and slander.

Likewise the allegation about him being on a watch by Mall cops could easily be proven or disproved.

In both of these cases if he alleged slander and libel the burden would be on them to prove their claims. If they didn't bring forth evidence backing the claim they would lose.

He can claim everything is false because he knows their will be no trial. The only way there will be a trial is if he brings one for slander, but if he does that then they can counter sue.

So, when I look at the evidence what do I see:

1. Multiple accusations that individually are not (for the most part) criminal, but they are creepy.

2. Corroboration from coworkers of his, again not of criminality but of creepiness.

3. Corroboration from Mall cops.

4. Corroboration from a phone call to the school.

5. Corroboration from Roy Moore who says he never dated a girl without the mother's permission.

and finally,

6. Corroboration from the yearbook.

If the yearbook were proven false I would also dismiss the phone call without hard and solid evidence. If the Mall cops claim were proven false then I would agree with you that this was a political attack of the lowest and most despicable level. On the other hand if he does not work to clear his name on those two counts I will accept their claims and dismiss his denial as the lies of a liar who knows he won't have to prove it.

There is of course another possibility. He may have intentionally chosen to date 17 and 18 year olds, which in Alabama was probably legal. He may have also mistakenly had that adventure with the 14 year old since she was a waitress and he didn't realize she wasn't 17. That is the risk you take when you date 17 year olds. If this is the case I don't think it is fair to label him a pedophile, but creep does seem very appropriate.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Atty Allred won't release that yearbook for analysis. You know that.

Moore is running as a Republican, but the Party won't back him, in fact numerous Republican Senators want him to step down and thus give Alabama to the Democratic Party. Unbelievable!

The Never-Trumpers are now the Never-Moore's.

Pretty incredible! Look at what McConnell did -- immediately (within one hour) he asked for Moore to withdraw, but with Franken he only wants an Ethics Committee investigation, where matters like this reside until the heat passes over. McConnell is now Majority Leader of the Grand Old Swamp Party.

They all should get the boot, regardless of party.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by awareness

They all should get the boot, regardless of party.

As should have Bill Clinton even prior to being elected president on the basis of evidence against him in the Paula Jones and Juanita Broaddrick and Kathleen Willey cases. I was not a fan of the man. I didn't vote in the presidential election of 1991 cuz I didn't like either major party candidate nor Ross Perot. In the next presidential election I voted for Ralph Nader.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

They all should get the boot, regardless of party.

They need to reveal which in Congress have used this secret "Shush" Fund.

Term limits would help too.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

They need to reveal which in Congress have used this secret "Shush" Fund.

Term limits would help too.

Wouldn't that be something available under the freedom of information act?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Wouldn't that be something available under the freedom of information act?

Judicial Watch has used FOIA to expose endless Clinton / Obama corruptions.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Judicial Watch has used FOIA to expose endless Clinton / Obama corruptions.

I suspect if we dig a little deeper we'll discover that Clinton was not the first to bring corruption to the US government.

[zeek]

Racist Trump has a long history of verbal attacks on Native Americans. http://www.newsweek.com/trump-pocaho...ericans-724204 Staging the code talker ceremony in front of infamous Indian killer Andrew Jackson was a dog whistle to his racist supporters.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

Racist Trump has a long history of verbal attacks on Native Americans. http://www.newsweek.com/trump-pocaho...ericans-724204 Staging the code talker ceremony in front of infamous Indian killer Andrew Jackson was a dog whistle to his racist supporters.

Do you really think Trump gives a hang about Native Americans? He only cares if he can get a cut of the profits from their casinos.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by awareness

Do you really think Trump gives a hang about Native Americans? He only cares if he can get a cut of the profits from their casinos.

No, I don't. Trump disrespected them. He turned the ceremony that was supposedly to honor the code talkers into a stunt to designed to embarrass Elizabeth Warren because she has been highly visible in her opposition to the Republican tax scam in the senate. It was a bully's tactic. He has no shame. Zephaniah 3:5

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

No, I don't. Trump disrespected them. He turned the ceremony that was supposedly to honor the code talkers into a stunt to designed to embarrass Elizabeth Warren because she has been highly visible in her opposition to the Republican tax scam in the senate. It was a bully's tactic. He has no shame.

Doesn't Warren or others have any responsibility to be factual about their nationality?

Harvard University highly promoted their diverse teaching staff to include Native Americans based on E-Warren's deceptions.

It's so refreshing to have a Prez who is not afraid to expose PC lies.

Instead of apologizing for her deceit, Pocahontus and the liberal media twist the story into a minority attack, which all cretin liberals just swallow.

Reminds me of all those in Mass. who believed John Kerry was Irish, and the kept electing him as their Senator.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Doesn't Warren or others have any responsibility to be factual about their nationality?

Harvard University highly promoted their diverse teaching staff to include Native Americans based on E-Warren's deceptions.

It's so refreshing to have a Prez who is not afraid to expose PC lies.

Instead of apologizing for her deceit, Pocahontus and the liberal media twist the story into a minority attack, which all cretin liberals just swallow.

Reminds me of all those in Mass. who believed John Kerry was Irish, and the kept electing him as their Senator.

What does that have to do with the heroism of the code talkers he was supposed to be honoring? This was another instance in a pattern of behavior Trump has shown wherein he disrespects war heroes and gold star families.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

What does that have to do with the heroism of the code talkers he was supposed to be honoring? This was another instance in a pattern of behavior Trump has shown wherein he disrespects war heroes and gold star families.

Good morning! You're up early!

It has nothing to do with the heroism of the Code Talkers.

We are in a highly politicized climate. Each side using every opportunity to bash the other. Not much different from liberals bashing Trump at Christmas, or Thanksgiving, or New Years, or a Commencement. Each side cheers when it happens.

But Trump never disrespected the last surviving Code Talkers, who were heroes, he only disrespected Warren, who deceived us into thinking that she was Native American. She also deceived Harvard Univ. and all the staff and students there. Trump was just bad-mouthing his future 2020 political rival. Kind of stuff he faces regularly in the media.

I don't like it, but unfortunately it's the world we live in. It's toxic. It's political war. It goes on every day. Both sides blame the other. Can't see it getting any better either.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Doesn't Warren or others have any responsibility to be factual about their nationality?

Harvard University highly promoted their diverse teaching staff to include Native Americans based on E-Warren's deceptions.

It's so refreshing to have a Prez who is not afraid to expose PC lies.

Instead of apologizing for her deceit, Pocahontus and the liberal media twist the story into a minority attack, which all cretin liberals just swallow.

Reminds me of all those in Mass. who believed John Kerry was Irish, and the kept electing him as their Senator.

We have a law designed to make up for past injustices by balancing them out with current injustices. As a result there is a huge incentive to say you are "native american". For example, when Harvard is accused of not having enough diversity they trot out Elizabeth Warren. No doubt this gave her job security. Surely she should have to provide proof for claiming she is native american. But she doesn't, regardless of how many times the issue is raised.

Genetic testing could easily prove if she had any appreciable amount of native heritage. Since she refuses to verify her claim this charge will continue to haunt her.

[Ohio]

Matt Lauer is the latest to be terminated.

He was the king in morning news. Hard to believe. Shock waves ...

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

We have a law designed to make up for past injustices by balancing them out with current injustices. As a result there is a huge incentive to say you are "native american". For example, when Harvard is accused of not having enough diversity they trot out Elizabeth Warren. No doubt this gave her job security. Surely she should have to provide proof for claiming she is native American. But she doesn't, regardless of how many times the issue is raised.

Genetic testing could easily prove if she had any appreciable amount of native heritage. Since she refuses to verify her claim this charge will continue to haunt her.

It's all crazy.

We now have people who hate their "whiteness," and decide they are a person of color locked up in a "white" body.

Oh the available perks ...

As one brother/doctor from M.I.T. once told me, "I am a native American, I was born here."

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Matt Lauer is the latest to be terminated.

He was the king in morning news. Hard to believe. Shock waves ...

What you do in secret will be shouted from the rooftop. Simply fulfillment of the Lord's word.

What is very interesting is Hope Solo's charge. Will American sensibilities spread worldwide? Are European power brokers also going to be held up to the same standards? What about Asian, African, Russian? If you think American leaders are corrupt wait till we lift that sheet.

[ZNPaaneah]

http://www.gocomics.com/nonsequitur

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

It's so refreshing to have a Prez who is not afraid to expose PC lies.

You've obviously been in the garlic room too long.

[awareness]

Garrison Keillor fired by Minnesota Public Radio over allegations of inappropriate behavior
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-behavior.html

His Plymouth Brethren parents prolly aren't pleased.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

It's so refreshing to have a Prez who is not afraid to expose PC lies.

I think that is the first time I have seen the term "refreshing" used to refer to President Trump.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I think that is the first time I have seen the term "refreshing" used to refer to President Trump.

Time to get out of that big city swamp, and visit a rural Red State for a change, where PC talk is despicable.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

You've obviously been in the garlic room too long.

Huh? Translation please.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

What you do in secret will be shouted from the rooftop. Simply fulfillment of the Lord's word.

What is very interesting is Hope Solo's charge. Will American sensibilities spread worldwide? Are European power brokers also going to be held up to the same standards? What about Asian, African, Russian? If you think American leaders are corrupt wait till we lift that sheet.

What is very interesting is Hope Solo's charge???

Wasn't she charged with domestic violence?

Explain?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

What is very interesting is Hope Solo's charge???

Wasn't she charged with domestic violence?

Explain?

We are seeing one powerful American after another get fired / resign / settle lawsuits for behavior that is considered normal in Italy and France. However, there are international unions like that with soccer where the US is part of this union. Will US norms become the world standard? That is what I find interesting.

Her charge and his response indicates that it is business as usual, or that is what they hope. I doubt that will be the case.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Time to get out of that big city swamp, and visit a rural Red State for a change, where PC talk is despicable.

You do know that Trump is from NY. Are you saying he's a creature from the swamp?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

We are seeing one powerful American after another get fired / resign / settle lawsuits for behavior that is considered normal in Italy and France. However, there are international unions like that with soccer where the US is part of this union. Will US norms become the world standard? That is what I find interesting.

Her charge and his response indicates that it is business as usual, or that is what they hope. I doubt that will be the case.

She was charged with domestic violence. Is that what Italian women do?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

You do know that Trump is from NY. Are you saying he's a creature from the swamp?

Trump got out, and you can too!

[awareness]

Originally Posted by awareness

You've obviously been in the garlic room too long.

After the garlic room, anything is refreshing. Even Trump.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Trump got out, and you can too!

Now I know you aren't talking about Washington!

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Trump got out, and you can too!

Bahahahahaha

[awareness]

From al.com (Alabama local news) :

Roy Moore co-authored course saying women shouldn't run for office
http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/201...roy_moore.html

Teaching Biblical patriarchy, and criticizing women’s suffrage.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

From al.com (Alabama local news) :

Roy Moore co-authored course saying women shouldn't run for office
http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/201...roy_moore.html

Teaching Biblical patriarchy, and criticizing women’s suffrage.

Moore made some good points, eh?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Moore made some good points, eh?

My friend Hosepipe says all our troubles began when women got to vote. I think it was the formation of the Federal Reserve, 7 years before women got the vote.

[awareness]

Bro Ohio, here's your shush fund :

Politico on Friday identified Rep. Blake Farenthold (R-Texas) as the congressman who used $84,000 in taxpayer funds to settle a sexual harassment claim.
Farenthold said he believed the solution saved taxpayers money.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...ushpmg00000009

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Bro Ohio, here's your shush fund :

Politico on Friday identified Rep. Blake Farenthold (R-Texas) as the congressman who used $84,000 in taxpayer funds to settle a sexual harassment claim.
Farenthold said he believed the solution saved taxpayers money.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...ushpmg00000009

As we pull this thread the whole thing will unravel. Ironically this will help drain the swamp.

[ZNPaaneah]

Mueller doesn't work with Flynn unless Flynn can give a bigger fish. That eliminates the whole "rogue operator" claim. Hard to see that any "bigger fish" is not in Trump's inner circle. On the other hand no way Flynn works with Mueller unless he is guilty and they have the evidence.

[zeek]

I read that Flynn has promised “full cooperation” in the special counsel’s Russia investigation and is willing to testify that Donald Trump directed him to contact the Russians. Clearly Trump lied repeatedly and sought to obstruct justice. How can congress fail to impeach him? And lets not forget Pence's lies and covering up. He should go down too.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

I read that Flynn has promised “full cooperation” in the special counsel’s Russia investigation and is willing to testify that Donald Trump directed him to contact the Russians. Clearly Trump lied repeatedly and sought to obstruct justice. How can congress fail to impeach him? And lets not forget Pence's lies and covering up. He should go down too.

It was his job to contact, not only the Russians, but many ambassadors and heads of state.

What about election collusion?

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

It was his job to contact, not only the Russians, but many ambassadors and heads of state.

What about election collusion?

..and then to lie and deny it repeatedly. Why did he plead guilty? Maybe he's confused.
You should talk to Flynn and straighten him out. He seems to lack your clear vision just now.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

..and then to lie and deny it repeatedly. Why did he plead guilty? Maybe he's confused.
You should talk to Flynn and straighten him out. He seems to lack your clear vision just now.

He lied about contacts with the Russians long before Trump was elected.

Both he and Manafort and others had connections with Russians before Trump even announced his Presidency.

Sorry your vision is so dimmed by hatred. Mueller and Comey allowed the Obama administration and the Clintons to escape numerous felonies and treason. No justice here. This is a hit job. These deep state operatives are willing to destroy the nation for personal gains. Pretty sad.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Sorry your vision is so dimmed by hatred.

Bahahahaha. If this isn't projection I don't know what is.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Mueller and Comey allowed the Obama administration and the Clintons to escape numerous felonies and treason. No justice here. This is a hit job. These deep state operatives are willing to destroy the nation for personal gains. Pretty sad.

Yeah, the deep state, the liberals, Obama, Hillary. George Soros, and the LGBTQ, are all conspiring together to create a hit job on Trump.

But Trump said he'd pick the best. And this is what he selected. Obviously he didn't explain what best meant. The best what?

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

He lied about contacts with the Russians long before Trump was elected.

Both he and Manafort and others had connections with Russians before Trump even announced his Presidency.

Sorry your vision is so dimmed by hatred. Mueller and Comey allowed the Obama administration and the Clintons to escape numerous felonies and treason. No justice here. This is a hit job. These deep state operatives are willing to destroy the nation for personal gains. Pretty sad.

But what about this? and what about that? Your boy Trump is going down. It's just a matter of timing. Hopefully, they'll bring him down before he gets us into nuclear war with NK.

Who do you suppose I hate? Only the tyrants and bullies who deceive and prey upon the weak. I count Trump among the most dangerous of that ilk. You may ask what about this one or what about that one? But, only Trump is the POTUS in the position to do the maximum damage. And, he must be stopped before he has the chance.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

But what about this? and what about that? Your boy Trump is going down. It's just a matter of timing. Hopefully, they'll bring him down before he gets us into nuclear war with NK.

Who do you suppose I hate? Only the tyrants and bullies who deceive and prey upon the weak. I count Trump among the most dangerous of that ilk. You may ask what about this one or what about that one? But, only Trump is the POTUS in the position to do the maximum damage. And, he must be stopped before he has the chance.

The ol' Whataboutism or "whataboutery" (Used by the Soviet Union), diversion tacit. But Trump is holding the power ... not all those whatabout's.

[ZNPaaneah]

Well Trump has explained why he had to fire Flynn. Sad that Flynn would lie about this stuff to the FBI and Senate when nothing illegal was done. Almost makes you wonder why Flynn lied.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Well Trump has explained why he had to fire Flynn. Sad that Flynn would lie about this stuff to the FBI and Senate when nothing illegal was done. Almost makes you wonder why Flynn lied.

Why would you believe the spin of a chronic liar like Trump? Nothing illegal was done? Really? Flynn would lie to cover up, obviously.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

Why would you believe the spin of a chronic liar like Trump? Nothing illegal was done? Really? Flynn would lie to cover up, obviously.

Trump tweeted today that he fired Flynn for lying. If he knew Flynn was lying, and asked Comey to back off Flynn, then Trump is guilty of obstruction.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ilty-plea.html

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

As we pull this thread the whole thing will unravel. Ironically this will help drain the swamp.

Want to stop all this sexual harassment in Washington? Then vote only for those without a penis.

[zeek]

The Senate GOP :"Before we discuss raising taxes on the poor & middle class, adding $1 trillion to the deficit, taking health insurance away from 13 million, raising premiums by 10%, defending treason and swearing in a pedophile, let's begin with a prayer."

[zeek]

Originally Posted by awareness

Trump tweeted today that he fired Flynn for lying. If he knew Flynn was lying, and asked Comey to back off Flynn, then Trump is guilty of obstruction.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ilty-plea.html

Do you expect the Liar and Chief to keep track of all the lies he tells? He's a busy man, give him a break.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by awareness

Want to stop all this sexual harassment in Washington? Then vote only for those without a penis.

"You have to believe it's getting better, it's getting better all the time. {It can't get no worse.}"

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Want to stop all this sexual harassment in Washington? Then vote only for those without a penis.

Seriously? You really think sexual harassment is only by men? It is by people in power, male or female.

[ZNPaaneah]

I think people have misunderstood all the tolerance of Trump. Yes he tolerates Roy Moore, and yes he tolerates the KKK, he tolerates war heroes who aren't really war heroes, he tolerates gold star parents who are democrats, etc. But there is one thing he won't tolerate, lying to Mike Pence.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I think people have misunderstood all the tolerance of Trump. Yes he tolerates Roy Moore, and yes he tolerates the KKK, etc. But there is one thing he won't tolerate, lying to Mike Pence.

You gotta hand it to him and the Republican Congress. They just pulled off a world historic trillion plus dollar Bait and Switch on the majority of American people...and they're not done yet.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

You gotta hand it to him and the Republican Congress. They just pulled off a world historic trillion plus dollar Bait and Switch on the majority of American people...and they're not done yet.

But, given Flynn, will Trump remain in office long enough to sign it?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

But, given Flynn, will Trump remain in office long enough to sign it?

We just learned that it is Trump's lawyer who has been writing his tweets! Well now we know the legal strategy: he is building a case for insanity.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

We just learned that it is Trump's lawyer who has been writing his tweets! Well now we know the legal strategy: he is building a case for insanity.

it hurts when I laugh.

[awareness]

Sorry I'm late to the party, but this just in :

'Mueller poses an existential threat to the Trump presidency,' says Trump ally Newsmax CEO Chris Ruddy

"Newsmax CEO Chris Ruddy, a close ally of President Trump's, admitted the Russia probe could spell major trouble for the administration.
'You know, at the end of the the day, my view is that – Robert Mueller poses an existential threat to the Trump presidency,' Ruddy said Sunday on ABC's This Week."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...residency.html

[ZNPaaneah]

Here's the money quote Dowd gave to Axios: The “president cannot obstruct justice because he is the chief law enforcement officer under [the Constitution's Article II] and has every right to express his view of any case.”

I thought if any law enforcement official was in any way involved with a case, friends of the family, possible collusion, etc, then they should recuse themselves. Being the chief law enforcement officer doesn't give you the right to fire the person who is prosecuting you, or members of your family, or your transition team.

[ZNPaaneah]

SALT LAKE CITY (AP) -- Two national monuments in Utah that President Donald Trump is going to significantly reduce include ancient cliff dwellings and scenic canyons as well as areas that could be used for energy development.

During a March 2011 phone interview with "Fox and Friends," Donald Trump touted a business interaction he had with former Libyan leader Muammar Qaddafi as a prime example of his business prowess: "I dealt with Qaddafi. I rented him a piece of land. He paid me more for one night than the land was worth for two years, and then I didn't let him use the land. That's what we should be doing. I don't want to use the word 'screwed', but I screwed him. That's what we should be doing."

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

But, given Flynn, will Trump remain in office long enough to sign it?

Trump's lawyer claims that Trump cannot be guilty of obstruction of justice because he is the highest official in the criminal justice department.

I thought we crossed this bridge with the Magna Carta, everyone is subject to the law and no one is above the law.

[awareness]

How absurd is Roy allowed to get before even his supporters see that something just ain't right about him, besides his alleged pedophilia?

Accused pedophile Roy Moore in anti-Semitism storm as he says Jewish billionaire George Soros will go to HELL - then suggests all non-Christians will too
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...os-attack.html

[Ohio]

Michael Flynn — fired by the Trump Administration for lying — has turned state’s evidence against the White House and agreed to cooperate with rogue prosecutor Robert Mueller and his endless game of pin the tail on the Trump. How any of it amounts to “colluding” with Russia to rig last year’s election is beyond the imagination of any sane, rational person. But here in the swamp, there is very little rational sanity.


As always with these political witch hunts, Flynn is not pleading guilty to any crime that is a result of the Trump campaign or the Trump administration or anything involving President Trump. Flynn is pleading guilty to a crime that is the result of nothing other than Mr. Mueller’s investigation. Lying to the FBI. The only reason Flynn was talking to the FBI in the first place, is this bogus investigation into Democratic hallucinations about the Trump campaign “colluding” with Russia.


So, finally, Mr. Mueller has his witness. He finally has a witness willing to say what Mr. Mueller has been yearning for from the very launch of his quest, “worthy” of Inspector Javert. And, of course, Flynn is willing to say anything Mr. Mueller wants him to say. Mr. Mueller threatened to jail him. Far, far worse, the rogue prosecutor threatened to jail the man’s son and leave his family destitute. Flynn’s wife would die a widow pauper if Flynn did not say what Mr. Mueller wanted him to say. In other words, Mr. Mueller has bribed and blackmailed Flynn into saying precisely what Mr. Mueller wants him to say.

First, Flynn says he was instructed to “collude” with the Russians after Nov. 8, 2016. But you can’t rig an election AFTER the election. Unless Mr. Trump has a time machine — and I suspect he would have bragged to us about that if he did — you simply cannot rig an election after it happened.

[Ohio]

President Trump officially recognizes Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.

Now you may begin to understand why Bible-believing evangelicals support Trump.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

How absurd is Roy allowed to get before even his supporters see that something just ain't right about him, besides his alleged pedophilia?

Accused pedophile Roy Moore in anti-Semitism storm as he says Jewish billionaire George Soros will go to HELL - then suggests all non-Christians will too
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...os-attack.html

If Judge Moore can be accused of anti-semitism for calling out Soros, then you are a racist, anti-white, anti-German, gerontophobic, anti-Christian, and anti-Presbyterian for calling out Trump.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Michael Flynn — fired by the Trump Administration for lying — has turned state’s evidence against the White House and agreed to cooperate with rogue prosecutor Robert Mueller and his endless game of pin the tail on the Trump. How any of it amounts to “colluding” with Russia to rig last year’s election is beyond the imagination of any sane, rational person. But here in the swamp, there is very little rational sanity.


As always with these political witch hunts, Flynn is not pleading guilty to any crime that is a result of the Trump campaign or the Trump administration or anything involving President Trump. Flynn is pleading guilty to a crime that is the result of nothing other than Mr. Mueller’s investigation. Lying to the FBI. The only reason Flynn was talking to the FBI in the first place, is this bogus investigation into Democratic hallucinations about the Trump campaign “colluding” with Russia.


So, finally, Mr. Mueller has his witness. He finally has a witness willing to say what Mr. Mueller has been yearning for from the very launch of his quest, “worthy” of Inspector Javert. And, of course, Flynn is willing to say anything Mr. Mueller wants him to say. Mr. Mueller threatened to jail him. Far, far worse, the rogue prosecutor threatened to jail the man’s son and leave his family destitute. Flynn’s wife would die a widow pauper if Flynn did not say what Mr. Mueller wanted him to say. In other words, Mr. Mueller has bribed and blackmailed Flynn into saying precisely what Mr. Mueller wants him to say.

First, Flynn says he was instructed to “collude” with the Russians after Nov. 8, 2016. But you can’t rig an election AFTER the election. Unless Mr. Trump has a time machine — and I suspect he would have bragged to us about that if he did — you simply cannot rig an election after it happened.

I agree that there is a lot of hypocrisy here. SCOTUS determined that corporations could pay as much as they want to influence an election. Is there anything in this ruling that discerns between corporations incorporated in the US with foreign companies?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I agree that there is a lot of hypocrisy here. SCOTUS determined that corporations could pay as much as they want to influence an election. Is there anything in this ruling that discerns between corporations incorporated in the US with foreign companies?

Sorry ... ZNP ... but this is way beyond mere hypocrisy.

This is an assault on our Republic and the democratic process that elected our President by agenda-driven career FBI agents. Where is the rule of law?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

If Judge Moore can be accused of anti-semitism for calling out Soros, then you are a racist, anti-white, anti-German, gerontophobic, anti-Christian, and anti-Presbyterian for calling out Trump.

So Democrats, like Conyers and Franken, have to resign over accusations, but Moore can be put into the Senate? If he wins, will he have to resign too? Or do pubbies, like Moore and Trump, get a free pass. Just not demmies.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

President Trump officially recognizes Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.

Now you may begin to understand why Bible-believing evangelicals support Trump.

This is so wrong. But those following their Bible mythologies, both Jews and Christians, don't think so.

They think it's the fulfillment of Bible prophecies. While it's nothing but self fulfilling prophecies.

But Trump needs badly to be great, and that's more important than provoking wars, and increasing the potential for terrorism here at home.

Make Trump great again ... at any cost.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

This is so wrong. But those following their Bible mythologies, both Jews and Christians, don't think so.

They think it's the fulfillment of Bible prophecies. While it's nothing but self fulfilling prophecies.

But Trump needs badly to be great, and that's more important than provoking wars, and increasing the potential for terrorism here at home.

Make Trump great again ... at any cost.

If Trump was so obsessed woth being great, as you suppose, then Trump would NEVER have recognised Jerusalem.

But since you see the Bible as mythology, it is impossible for you to understand.

How in the world can ancient prophecies be self-fulfilling? Either they are fulfilled by the inspiration and sovereignty of God, or they could never be fulfilled.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

So Democrats, like Conyers and Franken, have to resign over accusations, but Moore can be put into the Senate? If he wins, will he have to resign too? Or do pubbies, like Moore and Trump, get a free pass. Just not demmies.

The people of Alabama will decide their senator next Tuesday.

If the Senate Ethics Committee brings charges, then Moore will get to face his accusers, and not be convicted in the court of public opinion.

If Moore is elected and then convicted, he will have to step down, and the Governor of Alabama can appoint a new senator.

Don't you accept the Democratic process? The rule of law? The presumption of innocence? Or do you prefer hit squads?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

This is so wrong. But those following their Bible mythologies, both Jews and Christians, don't think so.

They think it's the fulfillment of Bible prophecies. While it's nothing but self fulfilling prophecies.

But Trump needs badly to be great, and that's more important than provoking wars, and increasing the potential for terrorism here at home.

Make Trump great again ... at any cost.

Why is it wrong to recognize the capital of Israel as the capital of Israel?

What an ugly post full of assumptions. You assume that Trump recognized Jerusalem as the capital because he is following "Bible mythologies" though there is nothing at all in his campaign or behavior that would suggest he is such a person.

You suggest that this action is irresponsible and worse, is intended to provoke a war and increase terrorism at home for some political advantage to Trump.

Can anyone's mind be any more poisonous than this post?

For 50 years Israel has been a nation. How has the peace process gone so far? How has American policy prior to Trump worked at reducing terrorism?

As far as I can tell the only thing that has reduced terrorism, at least in Israel, is their wall.

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terrorism/terror-rate.html

The construction of Israel’s security fence put an immediate and dramatic end to the Palestinian campaign of suicide bombing.*By 2009, only 15 Israelis were killed by Palestinian terrorism, compared with 452 murdered in 2002, the year before construction began.* (https://www.azcentral.com/story/opin...rst/678600001/)

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Why is it wrong to recognize the capital of Israel as the capital of Israel?

What an ugly post full of assumptions. You assume that Trump recognized Jerusalem as the capital because he is following "Bible mythologies" though there is nothing at all in his campaign or behavior that would suggest he is such a person.

You suggest that this action is irresponsible and worse, is intended to provoke a war and increase terrorism at home for some political advantage to Trump.

Can anyone's mind be any more poisonous than this post?

For 50 years Israel has been a nation. How has the peace process gone so far? How has American policy prior to Trump worked at reducing terrorism?

Progressives pride themselves as the defenders of the weak and powerless in the face of crushing oppression. Yet, with a hundred times more Muslams who hate the very existence of Israel, why is it they never come to her defense?

Is there any other nation on earth that cannot have embassies in her capital?

Today Israel recognizes Trump as their most trusted ally, yet our media has convinced half of our country that Trump is a Nazi like unto Hitler who hates Jews. Once again, they are firmly convinced of what there is no evidemce for.

Like I have said before, Obama's true colors were really not on full display until he orchestrated that anti-Israel U.N. Resolution right before Christmas 2016.

I believe Trump's action is a repudiation of that UN resolution, and will directly enable Israel to rebuild their temple.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Why is it wrong to recognize the capital of Israel as the capital of Israel?

Because Trump just endorsed apartheid against the Palestinians. Jerusalem is supposed to be their capital too. But now it's given to Israel.
See these maps that reveal what Israel is doing to the Palestinians :
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/178807047674923880

Originally Posted by ZNP

What an ugly post full of assumptions. You assume that Trump recognized Jerusalem as the capital because he is following "Bible mythologies" though there is nothing at all in his campaign or behavior that would suggest he is such a person.

Trump wouldn't know what Bible mythology is if it bit him on the nose. He's just pandering to the Evangelicals that put him in office.

Originally Posted by ZNP

You suggest that this action is irresponsible and worse, is intended to provoke a war and increase terrorism at home for some political advantage to Trump.

Wrong. Not for political reasons. For ego reasons. And that's very plain and easy to see. Trump displays it daily with impunity.

Originally Posted by ZNP

Can anyone's mind be any more poisonous than this post?

Glad you caught it brother.

Originally Posted by ZNP

For 50 years Israel has been a nation. How has the peace process gone so far? How has American policy prior to Trump worked at reducing terrorism?

Going on 70 years bro ZNP. Not 50. And has Trump ended terrorism? Watch what happens now.

Originally Posted by ZNP

As far as I can tell the only thing that has reduced terrorism, at least in Israel, is their wall.

A wall that took more land from the Palestinians.

What Israel is doing to the Palestinians is against their Torah laws. Howbeit, not against this part of their Torah mythology:

Deu 20:16 But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

A wall that took more land from the Palestinians.

Palestinians don't own this land. It belongs to Israel. Been theirs for almost 4,000 years.

Muslams stole it, built their dome on top, and claimed that Muhammed ascended there.

Palestinian ownership is part of your ancient mythology.

Do you really believe Muhammed ascended there?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Because Trump just endorsed apartheid against the Palestinians. Jerusalem is supposed to be their capital too. But now it's given to Israel.
See these maps that reveal what Israel is doing to the Palestinians :
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/178807047674923880

Jerusalem is a very confusing situation, but we have seen with Berlin that two countries with separate governments can share the same city. There is nothing in recognizing this city as the capital of Israel that forbids the US from recognizing it as the capital of the Palestinians.

Originally Posted by awareness

Trump wouldn't know what Bible mythology is if it bit him on the nose. He's just pandering to the Evangelicals that put him in office.

Thanks for admitting you were wrong on that point, it takes a big person with a small ego to do that. OK, you may be right, I can't discern the motive. However, what I have noticed with Trump is that he seems intent on following through with all of his promises, even if he does so in a shallow and ineffective way like his proclamations and declarations.

Originally Posted by awareness

Wrong. Not for political reasons. For ego reasons. And that's very plain and easy to see. Trump displays it daily with impunity.

So then, just to be clear, you are saying his action is irresponsible and worse, is intended to provoke war and terrorism to satisfy Trump's ego. If this is the case my point that this is an exceedingly ugly accusation is not wrong, rather ascribing the motive to political reasons is wrong. Wow, your accusation is actually uglier, you are essentially saying his narcissism is so extreme he would start a world war that is a claim that he is mentally unfit for office.

Originally Posted by awareness

Glad you caught it brother.


Going on 70 years bro ZNP. Not 50. And has Trump ended terrorism? Watch what happens now.

Yes well for the first 20 years I was either not born yet or else was still too young to be paying attention. I don't pretend to be watching carefully what was happening in the Middle East prior to high school.

Originally Posted by awareness

A wall that took more land from the Palestinians.

What Israel is doing to the Palestinians is against their Torah laws. Howbeit, not against this part of their Torah mythology:

Deu 20:16 But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:

I don't disagree that the actions of the state of Israel have not been above reproach. However, I have yet to see any sin of Israel that wasn't also committed by the Palestinians -- murder, terrorism, apartheid, ruthlessness, arrogance, pride, etc.

Personally I consider it hypocritical of the Arabs to accuse Israel of Apartheid. The laws of these countries make anyone who is not Muslim a second class citizen. Also there is solid evidence that the idea for the "Final Solution" was not from Hitler but from his Arab allies. Prior to WWII David Ben Gurion had already been pushing the idea of a Jewish state, the Arabs thought supporting Germany could kill two birds with one stone. They are reaping what they have sown.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Palestinians don't own this land. It belongs to Israel. Been theirs for almost 4,000 years.

Muslams stole it, built their dome on top, and claimed that Muhammed ascended there.

Palestinian ownership is part of your ancient mythology.

Do you really believe Muhammed ascended there?

Oh shoot, that Iroquois Indian that wanted his land back, maybe he had a point. Well on a brighter note at least we paid for Manhattan.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Oh shoot, that Iroquois Indian that wanted his land back, maybe he had a point. Well on a brighter note at least we paid for Manhattan.

But not Queens?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Personally I consider it hypocritical of the Arabs to accuse Israel of Apartheid. The laws of these countries make anyone who is not Muslim a second class citizen. Also there is solid evidence that the idea for the "Final Solution" was not from Hitler but from his Arab allies.

I find it morally reprehensible for anyone to condone any Muslim nation, including the Palestinians, and then attack American officials for unproven allegations. Have you forgotten that all Muslum women are less than 2nd class citizens? 3 male witnesses to prove a rape?

With moral standards such as these, Harvey Weinstein simply needs to don a white robe and wear a diaper on his head.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Like I have said before, Obama's true colors were really not on full display until he orchestrated that anti-Israel U.N. Resolution right before Christmas 2016.

I believe Trump's action is a repudiation of that UN resolution, and will directly enable Israel to rebuild their temple.

I know you and Trump don't like anything Obama, but Obama did the right thing with the UN veto. Israel shouldn't be allowed to keep encroaching on Palestinian lands with their settlements.

That said, I know full well what the temple means to Christians. I grew up with it, and was soused with it in the local church.

The temple has to be functioning for Jesus to come back, for the son of perdition to sit in it and pronounce himself to be God (sounds like something Trump would do).

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

This has been a deep longing ever since right after Jesus left this earth, and since Paul, who thought that the end times was near, within their lifetime.

And 2000 years later Christians are still longing for the return of Jesus. Some are willing to do something about it, to do anything to make it happen.

We even have a couple of members on this forum that actually tried to blow up the temple mount so Israel can rebuild the temple.

But methinks such antics are nothing short of Cargo Cult thinking and methods ; or attempts to arrange everything just right so God will send the cargo.

I say, after 2000 years, maybe we should be real people of God and busy ourselves with trying to make the world a better safer place for everyone to live in, and not be trying to arrange things that's just going to make the world worse off.

It's not Christian to want our Jesus so bad that we don't care about our neighbors, and just want them -- Jesus killers and all the rest that don't believe in Jesus' salvation, most of the world populous -- to fry like crispy critters. It's not Jesus like to be selfish like that.

[Ohio]

Obama did the right thing with the UN veto. Israel shouldn't be allowed to keep encroaching on Palestinian lands with their settlements.

Of course, you agree with Obama. You have supported everything he has done, and everything that is good for Muslams. You have absolutely nothing good to say about Israel or Christians.

One day you will meet your maker and try to lecture Him on His own personality cargo cult, and His horrific fan clubs. Best of luck with that plan of action.

It was God who gave this land to Israel. It is not Palestinian land. These settlements are built on desert land which the Palestinians never lived on, nor built on, nor ever did anything with.

[awareness]

Latest from Pew Research Center :

Trump’s job rating has declined among several groups that gave him relatively high ratings in February, including older adults (38% of those 50 and older approve today, compared with 47% who did so in February) and whites (41% now, 49% then), as well as white evangelical Protestants (61% now, 78% then)."
http://www.people-press.org/2017/12/...to-the-nation/

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Latest from Pew Research Center :

Trump’s job rating has declined among several groups that gave him relatively high ratings in February, including older adults (38% of those 50 and older approve today, compared with 47% who did so in February) and whites (41% now, 49% then), as well as white evangelical Protestants (61% now, 78% then)."
http://www.people-press.org/2017/12/...to-the-nation/

Shows us again all of those reputable "Polls" with Hillary winning the election.

[awareness]

Okay. Just for fun, just because you are so extremely partisan, back at ya :

Republican Arizona Congressman Resigns Amid Investigation Into Workplace Misconduct

"Republican Rep. Trent Franks announced his resignation Thursday after the House Ethics Committee launched an investigation into the Arizona congressman and whether he “engaged in conduct that constitutes sexual harassment and/or retaliation for opposing sexual harassment.”"
~ Sourced at Wall Street Journal. But Rupert Murdoch charges. So, again, keeping with your feverish partisanship, Slate is even better.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...versation.html

And here's the clapping hands (at both posts). Franken should have stayed a comedian.

[awareness]

Alabama? What do you expect?

Now it's come out, again, that Roy Moore thinks America's best days were the days of slavery. And he:

"Loves Putin, Loves little girls, Hates America, Hates Americans. " [I'll add, and loves slavery.}

This has gone beyond retarded.

https://twitter.com/ReaganBattalion

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Okay. Just for fun, just because you are so extremely partisan, back at ya :

Republican Arizona Congressman Resigns Amid Investigation Into Workplace Misconduct

"Republican Rep. Trent Franks announced his resignation Thursday after the House Ethics Committee launched an investigation into the Arizona congressman and whether he “engaged in conduct that constitutes sexual harassment and/or retaliation for opposing sexual harassment.”"
~ Sourced at Wall Street Journal. But Rupert Murdoch charges. So, again, keeping with your feverish partisanship, Slate is even better.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...versation.html

And here's the clapping hands (at both posts). Franken should have stayed a comedian.

I am extremely partizan? Really? Look in the mirror, bro!

[zeek]

The "two state solution" peace negotiations seems to be dead. I support a one state solution with equal rights for Jews and Palestinians. Such an Israel as that would fulfill the vision of Isaiah 56:

Thus says the Lord:

1“Keep justice, and do righteousness,
For My salvation is about to come,
And My righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man who does this,
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”
3 Do not let the son of the foreigner
Who has joined himself to the Lord
Speak, saying,
“The Lord has utterly separated me from His people”;
Nor let the eunuch say,
“Here I am, a dry tree.”
4 For thus says the Lord:
“To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths,
And choose what pleases Me,
And hold fast My covenant,
5 Even to them I will give in My house
And within My walls a place and a name
Better than that of sons and daughters;
I will give them an everlasting name
That shall not be cut off.
6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—
7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain,
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices
Will be accepted on My altar;
For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”
8 The Lord God, who gathers the outcasts of Israel, says,
“Yet I will gather to him
Others besides those who are gathered to him.”

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

The "two state solution" peace negotiations seems to be dead. I support a one state solution with equal rights for Jews and Palestinians. Such an Israel as that would fulfill the vision of Isaiah 56:

I'd love to see a little autonomy among the Palestinians. Their leadership has never been good. Until they expel known terrorist organizations like Hamas and Hezzbullah, and paying their kids to kill Israelis, no progress will ever be made.

Muslams have Medina and Mecca, but the Jews only have Jerusalem, and that for 3 millennia. To this date, the Palestinians have never recognized the state of Israel. The "peace process" never really even got started. If Palestinians ever, as a state, recognized Israel, the Muslims around the world would kill them off as traitors -- so-called "honor killing."

[Ohio]

Bombshell: Roy Moore Accuser Beverly Nelson Admits She Forged Yearbook

This is why I say that the accusations against Moore are different.

Yet you are in complete denial about fake news from main stream media.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

The "two state solution" peace negotiations seems to be dead. I support a one state solution with equal rights for Jews and Palestinians. Such an Israel as that would fulfill the vision of Isaiah 56:

I also have a solution for the peace process. And my solution is also Biblically based.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I'd love to see a little autonomy among the Palestinians. Their leadership has never been good. Until they expel known terrorist organizations like Hamas and Hezzbullah, and paying their kids to kill Israelis, no progress will ever be made.

Muslams have Medina and Mecca, but the Jews only have Jerusalem, and that for 3 millennia. To this date, the Palestinians have never recognized the state of Israel. The "peace process" never really even got started. If Palestinians ever, as a state, recognized Israel, the Muslims around the world would kill them off as traitors -- so-called "honor killing."

I agree that the Palestinians leadership has been a dismal failure, an embarrassment.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Bombshell: Roy Moore Accuser Beverly Nelson Admits She Forged Yearbook

This is why I say that the accusations against Moore are different.

Yet you are in complete denial about fake news from main stream media.

This is despicable. A man signed the yearbook for his waitress and 30 years later they want to tar and feather him.

Once again I think the evidence in this case is pretty clear.

1. Democrats engineered this story to be released when it would be too late to replace Moore on the ticket. Their goal had nothing to do with protecting women but rather an attempt to get a democrat elected.

2. The story has been spun to be given the worst possible impression. This includes embellishing the yearbook signature.

3. Roy Moore is a creep. A 35 year old man creeping around malls trying to get dates with 18 year old girls. This is confirmed by his claim that he never dated a girl without the mother's consent.

4. In a Tit for tat Conyers and Franken got exposed and forced to resign.

The world of politics has done the impossible, it has gotten uglier than it was before.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

The world of politics has done the impossible, it has gotten uglier than it was before.

That ain't ugly. That's been going on forever.

Ugly is the FBI and DNC paying some British ex-agent named Steele to produce the fake "Pee" Dossier on Trump, and then using that phony document to obtain FISA warrant to justify their surveillance of the Trump election team.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

3. Roy Moore is a creep. A 35 year old man creeping around malls trying to get dates with 18 year old girls. This is confirmed by his claim that he never dated a girl without the mother's consent.

Actually I think it is quite gentlemanly to ask permission of her mother before dating. Perhaps traditional Southern customs are offensive to Yankees?

And btw Corfman's details have been exposed as lies. Same with the Mall allegations. Found out there wasn't even a mall in Gadsen in the first place.

Future history books will record the entire Moore smear campaign as a case study in main stream media fake news to overthrow the democratic election process.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Actually I think it is quite gentlemanly to ask permission of her mother before dating. Perhaps traditional Southern customs are offensive to Yankees?

And btw Corfman's details have been exposed as lies. Same with the Mall allegations. Found out there wasn't even a mall in Gadsen in the first place.

Future history books will record the entire Moore smear campaign as a case study in main stream media fake news to overthrow the democratic election process.

Once again I will repeat that if this is false he will sue. The republican party should handle the entire case. Accusing this woman for libel and slander should be a slam dunk now. The only possible reason that he would not sue is because there is enough truth to these allegations for him not to want to go into a courtroom. There is no reasonable justification to me for him to not sue.

If this is in fact a smear campaign that is not in any way based on fact there are many people who have made documented claims that he could sue.

As far as I am concerned the allegations are ugly because they were made to influence the election and never were intended to actually be tested in a court of law. I consider his denial by that same standard. If he is not willing to prove it in a court of law I won't consider it credible.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Once again I will repeat that if this is false he will sue. The republican party should handle the entire case. Accusing this woman for libel and slander should be a slam dunk now. The only possible reason that he would not sue is because there is enough truth to these allegations for him not to want to go into a courtroom. There is no reasonable justification to me for him to not sue.

If this is in fact a smear campaign that is not in any way based on fact there are many people who have made documented claims that he could sue.

As far as I am concerned the allegations are ugly because they were made to influence the election and never were intended to actually be tested in a court of law. I consider his denial by that same standard. If he is not willing to prove it in a court of law I won't consider it credible.

People make scurrilous claims all the time just to smear someone's reputation. If the defendant filed a lawsuit every time, then the courts would be inundated with claims. This never was about legal remedy.

There are many reasons why Moore might not sue. Who wants to spend their life in litigation? Moore is 70 years old, and must have a few more positive things he wants to do as a Senator. Besides, people believe what they want to believe. Court decisions won't change that.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

People make scurrilous claims all the time just to smear someone's reputation. If the defendant filed a lawsuit every time, then the courts would be inundated with claims. This never was about legal remedy.

There are many reasons why Moore might not sue. Who wants to spend their life in litigation? Moore is 70 years old, and must have a few more positive things he wants to do as a Senator. Besides, people believe what they want to believe. Court decisions won't change that.

This is different, the woman provided a document that she has since admitted was doctored. This charge was rejected by Moore as completely false. The entire episode has been documented on the news with interviews. Simply go to court with the various interviews that are already part of the record. The Republican party could handle this entire thing without Moore even having to do anything.

By doing this the Republican party and Moore would be vindicated (the Republican party is now be lambasted as the party that embraces pedophiles). But more than that imagine what happens at the next election -- any smear of any candidate would get a full blown repeat of the egg all over the face of the Democrats in this case. The cherry on the top would be if the woman admits she was put up to this. Democrats across the country would be bashed. Imagine how angry so many people would be if they chose not to vote for Moore because of these allegations and then later they were proven to be false. This outrage would sweep the electorate in other elections as well.

So once again, my point is this, if Moore is telling the truth then he will and absolutely must sue this woman for libel and slander. The Republican party has everything to gain but cannot do this without his consent.

[Ohio]

As an opinion editor John Nolte expresses the kind of common sense conservatism that cuts straight through today's "politically correct" news commentary. I think his latest piece summarizes well the current thinking about Judge Roy Moore.

Pragmatism vs. Cake Baking:
Christians Can Vote for Roy Moore in Good Conscience

Here is the Introduction:

Because I believe that even in the court of public opinion a fellow American deserves due process, unlike too many out there, until all the facts were in, I kept my mouth shut about the allegations against Senate candidate Roy Moore.

Rather than immediately cave to the corrupt media and #NeverTrump’s tribal pressure to do the right thing and denounce the Alabama Republican… I waited — I waited because the media lies. I waited because #NeverTrump lies. And now that all the evidence is in, we know that the allegations against Moore are either completely trumped up, an act of outright fraud, or full of massive holes.

[ZNPaaneah]

Regardless of the risk Trump's decision to recognize Jerusalem forces the Palestinians to negotiate.

They have 3 choices:

1. Terrorism -- won't advance their cause. Instead it will justify the walling off of their camps.

2. Stall -- this is what they have done and the result is their position shrinks every year. Every year there are more Jews, and Israel has advanced steadily with there claim to the land. At some point in the future the Palestinians claim will be considered ancient history.

3. Negotiate -- this involves compromise. If you look at the first peace proposal that the Palestinians rejected you can see the idiocy of the Palestinian leaders and how they have not acted on behalf of the Palestinians but rather have been puppets of the Arab nations.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Regardless of the risk Trump's decision to recognize Jerusalem forces the Palestinians to negotiate.

They have 3 choices:

1. Terrorism -- won't advance their cause. Instead it will justify the walling off of their camps.

2. Stall -- this is what they have done and the result is their position shrinks every year. Every year there are more Jews, and Israel has advanced steadily with there claim to the land. At some point in the future the Palestinians claim will be considered ancient history.

3. Negotiate -- this involves compromise. If you look at the first peace proposal that the Palestinians rejected you can see the idiocy of the Palestinian leaders and how they have not acted on behalf of the Palestinians but rather have been puppets of the Arab nations.

Why would the Israeli's want to negotiate? They have nothing to gain from negotiation. Trump and Kushner are clearly bias toward Israel so they are in no position to act as mediators. Netanyahu appears to be in no mood for compromising. Why would he be when Trump backs Israel unconditionally?
http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Co...tinians-517720

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Why would the Israeli's want to negotiate? They have nothing to gain from negotiation. Trump and Kushner are clearly bias toward Israel so they are in no position to act as mediators. Netanyahu appears to be in no mood for compromising. Why would he be when Trump backs Israel unconditionally?
http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Co...tinians-517720

zeek, you make this sound like a lop-sided negotiation.

Do you have any idea how many other nations are dead set against Israel?

Try the entire United Nations! Which, btw, has always had the mandate to prevent genocide.

If it weren't for an occasional US President, that nation would have been destroyed long ago.

Next summer will be 70 years of their existence. Is that significant in the Bible prophecies?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

Why would the Israeli's want to negotiate? They have nothing to gain from negotiation. Trump and Kushner are clearly bias toward Israel so they are in no position to act as mediators. Netanyahu appears to be in no mood for compromising. Why would he be when Trump backs Israel unconditionally?
http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Co...tinians-517720

Israel is surrounded by very rich countries, these countries control one of the most important natural resources on the planet. As a result they have a tremendous political clout with the developed nations like China, Russian and Europe. Likewise these arab nations have made one of the largest coalitions of muslim nations, I think it is now over 50 countries, in the UN. This is hardly the big, bad Israel vs the little downtrodden Palestinians.

However, this Arab alliance doesn't want peace, they want to be a continual thorn in the side of Israel. If they did want it the Palestinians would have had a peace settlement decades ago. Israel wants peace with its neighbors, Palestinians for the most part want to get on with their lives and have peace, but the Arab "allies" of the Palestinians, they are the ones who don't want this conflict to end.

[awareness]

Trevor Noah: Trump Backs Roy Moore Because ‘Birds Of A Feather Molest Together’

[Ohio]

[QUOTE=awareness;67330]Trevor Noah: Trump Backs Roy Moore Because ‘Birds Of A Feather Molest Together’

How about quoting reputable news stories?

Or do you only dabble in Alt-News?

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Israel is surrounded by very rich countries, these countries control one of the most important natural resources on the planet. As a result they have a tremendous political clout with the developed nations like China, Russian and Europe. Likewise these Arab nations have made one of the largest coalitions of Muslim nations, I think it is now over 50 countries, in the UN. This is hardly the big, bad Israel vs the little downtrodden Palestinians.

However, this Arab alliance doesn't want peace, they want to be a continual thorn in the side of Israel. If they did want it the Palestinians would have had a peace settlement decades ago. Israel wants peace with its neighbors, Palestinians for the most part want to get on with their lives and have peace, but the Arab "allies" of the Palestinians, they are the ones who don't want this conflict to end.

From what I read , the support of the Palestinians by the Arab nations is, in many cases only nominal. There are large, mistreated Palestinian refugee communities in all of Israel's neighbors but Egypt.

Jordan has a peace treaty with Israel and houses the largest concentration of Palestinians refugees. It's also the one of Israel's neighbors where Palestinians have full citizenship rights. Despite this, many refugees are shoved into crowded camps and generally poorly treated, which is why Palestinians are skeptical of their neighbors' claim to support the Palestinian cause.

Turkey, long on good terms with Israel, Turkey has become increasingly pro-Palestinian in recent years. Its Islamist Prime Minister, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, has positioned himself as a champion of the Palestinian cause for ideological, domestic, and geopolitical reasons. Israeli-Turkish conflict over an Israeli raid on a Turkish aid mission to Gaza severed diplomatic relations between the two countries for years. They normalized in 2016, but are still fragile.

Saudi Arabia donates hundreds of millions of dollars to the Palestinian Authority and is the driving force behind an Arab League peace plan floated as an alternative to traditional Israeli-Palestinian negotiations. Though Saudi Arabia has yet to recognize Israel, the two nations' mutual hostility toward Iran has led to an unprecedented working relationship between the Saudi and Israeli governments.

The Palestinians have little power themselves when compared to Israel and can hardly count on consistent effective support from the Arab nations.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

zeek, you make this sound like a lop-sided negotiation.

Do you have any idea how many other nations are dead set against Israel?

Try the entire United Nations! Which, btw, has always had the mandate to prevent genocide.

If it weren't for an occasional US President, that nation would have been destroyed long ago.

Next summer will be 70 years of their existence. Is that significant in the Bible prophecies?

Yes, the United Nations with it's support of human rights is a factor in preventing Israel from committing genocide. However, the UN's support and effectiveness is limited.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Yes, the United Nations with it's support of human rights is a factor in preventing Israel from committing genocide. However, the UN's support and effectiveness is limited.

"Support of human rights?" Seriously?

Palestinian thugs are paid well to kill innocent Israeli citizens, and then get "canonized."

Who defends the human rights of these innocent victims?

[awareness]

Politifact:
2017 Lie of the Year: Russian election interference is a 'made-up story'
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...erence-made-s/

[Evangelical]

According to the Washington post fact checker, Trump tells at least 5.5 lies every day:

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/11/14/po...628/index.html

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Trevor Noah: Trump Backs Roy Moore Because ‘Birds Of A Feather Molest Together’

There is no one more blatantly anti trump than Trevor Noah.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

According to the Washington post fact checker, Trump tells at least 5.5 lies every day:

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/11/14/po...628/index.html

This only refers to his public statements. This says nothing about lies he says in private.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

This only refers to his public statements. This says nothing about lies he says in private.

Every man is a liar, as the Bible says. But a man in his position should try harder to hide it.

[ZNPaaneah]

Five of the 20 worst fires in California history have now hit since just September

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Politifact:
2017 Lie of the Year: Russian election interference is a 'made-up story'
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...erence-made-s/

The article basically says, look at all these people who said Russia meddled, so Trump is a liar: "When the nation’s commander-in-chief refuses to acknowledge a threat to U.S. democracy, it makes it all the more difficult to address the problem. For this reason, we name Trump’s claim that the Russia interference is a hoax as our Lie of the Year for 2017."

Notice here that they pulled a bait-and-switch.

And then they say, "It seems unlikely — though not impossible — that Russia interference changed the outcome of the election. We at PolitiFact have seen no compelling evidence that it did so."

So which is it genius?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

This only refers to his public statements. This says nothing about lies he says in private.

How many lies were told every hour in the media about the Russian Collusion?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Every man is a liar, as the Bible says. But a man in his position should try harder to hide it.

To be fair Evan G, I have heard more lies coming from you trying to defend W. Lee, than I have heard from Trump.

But I'm an American, so I guess I am slightly biased.

[zeek]

Doug Jones won in Alabama. There is a God!

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

Doug Jones won in Alabama. There is a God!

Yea! Moore, Trump, and Bannon - birds of a feather -- busted down. Even Alabama had better sense.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Yea! Moore, Trump, and Bannon - birds of a feather -- busted down. Even Alabama had better sense.

Can we stop with the insults to Alabama?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

Doug Jones won in Alabama. There is a God!

That is the evidence you choose to believe in God?

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

That is the evidence you choose to believe in God?

If you take everything literally, you might be a fundamentalist.

[awareness]

And it begins :

Islamic leaders declare Trump's Jerusalem decision 'null and void' and call for the city to be recognised as Palestine's capital

"A statement by the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) declared Trump's decision 'null and void legally' and 'a deliberate undermining of all peace efforts' that would give impetus to 'extremism and terrorism.'

The OIC, which includes the presidents of Iran, Turkey and Afghanistan, gathered in Istanbul, Turkey today for an emergency summit in response to Trump's announcement last week.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...Jerusalem.html

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

Doug Jones won in Alabama. There is a God!

Yeah, that's all it took?

[zeek]

Originally Posted by awareness

Yeah, that's all it took?

Ironic isn't it?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

And it begins :

Islamic leaders declare Trump's Jerusalem decision 'null and void' and call for the city to be recognised as Palestine's capital

"A statement by the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) declared Trump's decision 'null and void legally' and 'a deliberate undermining of all peace efforts' that would give impetus to 'extremism and terrorism.'

The OIC, which includes the presidents of Iran, Turkey and Afghanistan, gathered in Istanbul, Turkey today for an emergency summit in response to Trump's announcement last week.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...Jerusalem.html

Erdogan is a bad actor. He is the latest Muslim leader to quench all liberty at home, and then attempt to stir up other Muslam leaders. The country of Turkey which was once was an ally, and became part of NATO, no longer exists.

God Himself protects Israel, and when things get really bad, He will send the King of Israel back to earth to deliver her.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Erdogan is a bad actor. He is the latest Muslim leader to quench all liberty at home, and then attempt to stir up other Muslam leaders. The country of Turkey which was once was an ally, and became part of NATO, no longer exists.

Political 09/21/2017
"President Donald Trump on Thursday said Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan is “getting very high marks,” despite his increasingly autocratic behavior.

“It’s a great honor and privilege — because he’s become a friend of mine — to introduce President Erdogan of Turkey,” Trump told reporters. “He’s running a very difficult part of the world. He’s involved very, very strongly and, frankly, he’s getting very high marks.”"
https://www.politico.com/story/2017/...-praise-242986

Originally Posted by Ohio

God Himself protects Israel, and when things get really bad, He will send the King of Israel back to earth to deliver her.

There's always hope. What's the hold up?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

And it begins :

Islamic leaders declare Trump's Jerusalem decision 'null and void' and call for the city to be recognised as Palestine's capital

"A statement by the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) declared Trump's decision 'null and void legally' and 'a deliberate undermining of all peace efforts' that would give impetus to 'extremism and terrorism.'

The OIC, which includes the presidents of Iran, Turkey and Afghanistan, gathered in Istanbul, Turkey today for an emergency summit in response to Trump's announcement last week.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...Jerusalem.html

How many years does it take before people realize that the "Peace efforts" of the OIC is bogus? 50 years? 100 years?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Political 09/21/2017
"President Donald Trump on Thursday said Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan is “getting very high marks,” despite his increasingly autocratic behavior.

“It’s a great honor and privilege — because he’s become a friend of mine — to introduce President Erdogan of Turkey,” Trump told reporters. “He’s running a very difficult part of the world. He’s involved very, very strongly and, frankly, he’s getting very high marks.”"

"Very high marks" on what? Autocratic behavior? How to brutally crush the opposition?

He even threatened to ban facebook and youtube!

God forbid!

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Political 09/21/2017
"President Donald Trump on Thursday said Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan is “getting very high marks,” despite his increasingly autocratic behavior.

“It’s a great honor and privilege — because he’s become a friend of mine — to introduce President Erdogan of Turkey,” Trump told reporters. “He’s running a very difficult part of the world. He’s involved very, very strongly and, frankly, he’s getting very high marks.”"
https://www.politico.com/story/2017/...-praise-242986


There's always hope. What's the hold up?

Who did you hold up???

And why would you not agree with the US embassy in Israel's capital?

Every other nation on earth enjoys such a convenience.

Why are you so against that tiny democracy surrounded by a billion Muslums?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Who did you hold up???

And why would you not agree with the US embassy in Israel's capital?

Every other nation on earth enjoys such a convenience.

Why are you so against that tiny democracy surrounded by a billion Muslums?

I don't believe Jerusalem should become the capital of Israel. Tel Aviv is doing just fine. The Palestinians claim east Jerusalem as their capital.

But then, you prolly think that Christian genocide was good enough for native American Indians so it's good enough for the Palestinians. In fact, you prolly hate the Palestinians with the heat of Christian fanaticism & fervency. They're not God's chosen. They are not humans with any rights whatsoever. They are of Satan. Right?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

I don't believe Jerusalem should become the capital of Israel. Tel Aviv is doing just fine. The Palestinians claim east Jerusalem as their capital.

But then, you prolly think that Christian genocide was good enough for native American Indians so it's good enough for the Palestinians. In fact, you prolly hate the Palestinians with the heat of Christian fanaticism & fervency. They're not God's chosen. They are not humans with any rights whatsoever. They are of Satan. Right?

Wow! How about Moscow, you OK with that or do you think they should move the capital of Russia? What about China, are you happy with their capital, maybe there is a city that you would be more agreeable to. What about Canada, are you happy with their capital or do you think they should change it? Surely you haven't just singled out Israel out of every nation on this earth, there must be some other nations you think could move their capital's to cities that are more agreeable to you.

[awareness]

From Christianity Today - December 2017:
The Biggest Loser in the Alabama Election
It’s not Republicans or Democrats, but Christian witness.

"When it comes to either matters of life and death or personal commitments of the human heart, no one will believe a word we say, perhaps for a generation. Christianity’s integrity is severely tarnished."
https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct...editorial.html

[ZNPaaneah]

Brain doctor: President Trump may be suffering from a ‘degenerative brain disorder’

Think how shameful all these people making fun of Trump when it may turn out he is a sick man in need of help. The slurring, the behavior, etc. There are a number of symptoms, not to laugh at, but to seek treatment for.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

From Christianity Today - December 2017:
The Biggest Loser in the Alabama Election
It’s not Republicans or Democrats, but Christian witness.

"When it comes to either matters of life and death or personal commitments of the human heart, no one will believe a word we say, perhaps for a generation. Christianity’s integrity is severely tarnished."
https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct...editorial.html

One more reason why Roy Moore must respond to the allegations if they are indeed false. He has already been tried and convicted in the press. Republican party is damaged, he is damaged, etc. He claims he is absolutely innocent, no one will believe it unless he takes the accusers to court. Prove the yearbook was a forgery and the claim about the mall was false.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

I don't believe Jerusalem should become the capital of Israel. Tel Aviv is doing just fine. The Palestinians claim east Jerusalem as their capital.

But then, you prolly think that Christian genocide was good enough for native American Indians so it's good enough for the Palestinians.

In fact, you prolly hate the Palestinians with the heat of Christian fanaticism & fervency. They're not God's chosen. They are not humans with any rights whatsoever. They are of Satan. Right?

Jerusalem is their capital. Always was. Always will be.

Palestine never was a nation with a capital. Get over it.

There were many Christian missionaries slaughtered by native American Indians, but I never heard it called genocide. They were martyrs for the Lord. Many native American Indians did get saved, however.

I don't hate Palestinians. I do hate their hatred for Israel, the US, Christians, and the Gospel.

God loves all mankind, including Palestinians. He desires all men to be saved and come to the full knowledge of the truth.

But God has given all judgment to His Son, and one day He will judge all those who hate Him and His own.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

One more reason why Roy Moore must respond to the allegations if they are indeed false. He has already been tried and convicted in the press. Republican party is damaged, he is damaged, etc. He claims he is absolutely innocent, no one will believe it unless he takes the accusers to court. Prove the yearbook was a forgery and the claim about the mall was false.

I agree. Since Alabamians have spoken, Moore now has lots of time on his hands. He should clear his name, and expose the source of the lies.

Follow the money. Subpoena power will help. He owes this to his family. It won't be a criminal case, but a civil lawsuit.

If Moore doesn't do this, then every politician out there is vulnerable to public lynching. If the accusations are true, then step down and apologize. If they are false, then make a public example for all false accusers to see the painful ramifications of "bearing false witness."

Al Franken was waiting for the election outcome, now he's history too.

[ZNPaaneah]

Welcome To The Surveillance State: China’s AI Cameras See All

We knew that the toys came from China but now we have proof that Santa's elves are chinese and the Red Santa is actually referring to the Chinese state.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Welcome To The Surveillance State: China’s AI Cameras See All

We knew that the toys came from China but now we have proof that Santa's elves are chinese and the Red Santa is actually referring to the Chinese state.

You forgot to post the news link: China’s AI Cameras See All

Scary indeed. Did you notice the comment: "There are issues of safety and privacy, But Chinese people care more about safety."

Did anyone ask the Chinese people?

Reminds me of that Tom Cruise SCi-Fi movie "Minority Report" -- The "authorities" of the future will know who will commit a crime before it happens, so they will arrest and sentence him beforehand to "protect" their society.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

You forgot to post the news link: China’s AI Cameras See All

Scary indeed. Did you notice the comment: "There are issues of safety and privacy, But Chinese people care more about safety."

Did anyone ask the Chinese people?

Reminds me of that Tom Cruise SCi-Fi movie "Minority Report" -- The "authorities" of the future will know who will commit a crime before it happens, so they will arrest and sentence him beforehand to "protect" their society.

There is actually scientific basis for this.

1. Lie specialists can see a dangerous, threatening, scary behavior in people that takes place when they are planning on committing a crime. This is what screeners at airports and the FBI at political rallies are trained to look for.

2. Govt officials will have a list of "persons of interest". Perhaps someone raving about a government official on social media, etc.

3. Computers can quickly find these people and if they have been frequenting a landmark (say Brooklyn Bridge) it may alert them that they are scouting out a place to attack.

4. We use this technology at the Superbowl and other high profile events.

5. Airports are currently screening people for flu like symptoms to try and reduce the spread of contagious diseases.

You may think China is scary, but that is the future we are all headed to. Imagine a crime is committed and we can immediately track the suspects every step prior to the crime and after the crime. This will greatly reduce crime, increase conviction rates, and cut the costs to police and justice dept.

For example, the DC sniper would have been caught within two or three hours.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

You may think China is scary, but that is the future we are all headed to. Imagine a crime is committed and we can immediately track the suspects every step prior to the crime and after the crime. This will greatly reduce crime, increase conviction rates, and cut the costs to police and justice dept.

For example, the DC sniper would have been caught within two or three hours.

They always sell us security while they take away our liberty, yet it never happens like they told us.

We got lots of evidence to convict Hillary, but it never happened. The powers that be will use the technology to crush their enemies.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

They always sell us security while they take away our liberty, yet it never happens like they told us.

We got lots of evidence to convict Hillary, but it never happened. The powers that be will use the technology to crush their enemies.

Do you remember when people used to get mugged on payday? Not anymore not since we got direct deposit.

How about when cars were stolen, put into a chop shop, and 30 minutes later the parts were on a ship? Doesn't happen now that we have lojack.

Do you remember when the news would have descriptions of suspects (height, clothes, etc) and now we get pictures of the suspect?

Do you remember the Hurricane, the police wanted to frame him for a murder because he knew the police chief was a child molester. They got false testimony, false descriptions, etc. But he was proven innocent based on a the record at the taxi company and the phone company. He had called a taxi and it turns out the taxi did not arrive at his bar until the crime had already been committed cross town.

It works both ways. In this country everyone gets the justice they can afford.

The highways are covered with face and license plate readers, so any car fleeing on the highway will very quickly be found and tracked.

Smart phones are the best. Police used to need a warrant to put a bug into your house, then they would have to sneak in and install it and decide where the best location would be. Now they can get a warrant for your phone and without your knowedge the phone will be a bug that also gives the police your GPS location on a minute by minute basis. Criminals need to go back to the stone age or else they will be caught.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

It works both ways. In this country everyone gets the justice they can afford.

Ain't that the truth.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Ain't that the truth.

In my opinion what the OJ trial proved is that our justice system is not necessarily biased against blacks, it is biased against the poor. Still it is better than "trial by combat".

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

In my opinion what the OJ trial proved is that our justice system is not necessarily biased against blacks, it is biased against the poor. Still it is better than "trial by combat".

The FBI used all their surveillance powers on the Trump Team, yet still have no evidence of collusion.

Who knows how many phones were used as personal "bugs." The FBI has the technology to download malware into a phone that's even turned off, and it becomes a 24/7 bugging device for every Trump Team member. Not only are calls, texts, and personal info are recorded, but every member of the team was "wired" by the FBI without their knowledge. The only way to turn the bug off is to yank the battery -- no problem -- no current smart phone has a removable battery.

All they needed was a FISA warrant to make this all evidence in a criminal trial. No problem. We'll hire a former MI-6 agent to put together a Dossier which our hand-picked Judge will buy.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The FBI used all their surveillance powers on the Trump Team, yet still have no evidence of collusion.

Who knows how many phones were used as personal "bugs." The FBI has the technology to download malware into a phone that's even turned off, and it becomes a 24/7 bugging device for every Trump Team member. Not only are calls, texts, and personal info are recorded, but every member of the team was "wired" by the FBI without their knowledge. The only way to turn the bug off is to yank the battery -- no problem -- no current smart phone has a removable battery.

All they needed was a FISA warrant to make this all evidence in a criminal trial. No problem. We'll hire a former MI-6 agent to put together a Dossier which our hand-picked Judge will buy.

Yeah, except this would have to go through a court, a judge, and various oversight committees in the house and senate. Republican party can release all information via their media contacts, so this is not some abuse hiding under a rug. If they abused their power it would be front page news.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Yeah, except this would have to go through a court, a judge, and various oversight committees in the house and senate. Republican party can release all information via their media contacts, so this is not some abuse hiding under a rug. If they abused their power it would be front page news.

Still not willing to admit that the FBI was out to get Trump?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Still not willing to admit that the FBI was out to get Trump?

I admit that many in the FBI knew and spoke openly that Trump was an idiot. Other than that I have no evidence they were "out to get Trump".

I also know that the FBI director's actions prior to the election helped Trump's campaign.

Other than that I feel it is too early to judge either the FBI or Trump.

[Ohio]

Here is a rogues’ gallery of those assigned to investigate the 2016 election --

Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein: previously supervised an investigation into the approval by the Obama administration of a controversial sale of an American company now known as Uranium One to Russia. Russia used bribery, kickbacks and extortion to influence the uranium deal.

Special Counsel Robert Mueller: Mueller was FBI director during the uranium investigation. After being dismissed by President Trump, Comey leaked government memos to influence the investigation. Comey may have violated the law, but he accomplished his goal of getting his mentor Mueller appointed special counsel by Rosenstein.

FBI Investigator Peter Strzok: demoted from the Mueller investigation for sending anti-Trump text messages and allegedly relied on the anti-Trump 'Dirty Dossier' created by Fusion GPS (paid for in part by the Clinton campaign) to begin an investigation into Russian election interference, including spying on Trump campaign associates. He was also in charge of the Clinton email investigation and declared her “extremely careless” – not “grossly negligent” – which was the basis of the decision not to prosecute.

FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe: involved in both the FBI’s investigation of the uranium sale as well as the investigation in Hillary Clinton’s use of a private email server, neither of which resulted in negative outcomes for Clinton. The inspector general is now investigating allegations that McCabe should have recused himself, among other concerns, from the handling of the Clinton email controversy. McCabe’s wife received over $675,000 from Democratic campaign committees, including Clinton loyalists, in her campaign for the Virginia state Senate.

Andrew Weissmann, former chief of the Justice Department Criminal Fraud Section and a former partner at WilmerHale: donates frequently to Democrats. He attended Hillary Clinton’s election night party, and praised then-Acting Attorney General Sally Yates, saying he was "so proud" of her for defying Trump. Weissmann is one of Mueller’s top deputies.

Aaron Zebley, chief of staff for then-FBI Director Mueller, former partner at WilmerHale: represented Justin Cooper, a key figure in the Hillary Clinton email controversy. Zebley is now on the Mueller team.

Justin Cooper, former Bill Clinton aide who set up Hillary Clinton’s private server: admitted to two instances where he destroyed Hillary Clinton’s old mobile devices by breaking them in half or hitting them with a hammer.

Jeannie Rhee, former partner at WilmerHale: represented ex-Obama Deputy National Security Adviser Ben Rhodes, the Clinton Foundation in a 2015 racketeering case, and Hillary Clinton herself in a lawsuit seeking access to her private emails.

Associate Deputy Attorney General Bruce G. Ohr: recently demoted after evidence surfaced of his contacts with Fusion GPS. Inexplicably, Fusion GPS employed Ohr’s wife as well.

Almost every day, we hear of biases and conflicts among the Justice Department-Mueller team – with no end in sight. Investigators did not report their conflicts during the department’s investigation of Hillary Clinton. Mueller’s team continues to ignore its own conflicts of interest in a most unethical way. Our justice system deserves a better outcome. We must clean up the Justice Department and institute an official process to vet our investigators.

What do you call an investigation by Muller's team appointed by Rosenstein that began with no other purpose than to protect all the investigators from criminal action?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Here is a rogues’ gallery of those assigned to investigate the 2016 election --

Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein: previously supervised an investigation into the approval by the Obama administration of a controversial sale of an American company now known as Uranium One to Russia. Russia used bribery, kickbacks and extortion to influence the uranium deal.

Special Counsel Robert Mueller: Mueller was FBI director during the uranium investigation. After being dismissed by President Trump, Comey leaked government memos to influence the investigation. Comey may have violated the law, but he accomplished his goal of getting his mentor Mueller appointed special counsel by Rosenstein.

FBI Investigator Peter Strzok: demoted from the Mueller investigation for sending anti-Trump text messages and allegedly relied on the anti-Trump 'Dirty Dossier' created by Fusion GPS (paid for in part by the Clinton campaign) to begin an investigation into Russian election interference, including spying on Trump campaign associates. He was also in charge of the Clinton email investigation and declared her “extremely careless” – not “grossly negligent” – which was the basis of the decision not to prosecute.

FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe: involved in both the FBI’s investigation of the uranium sale as well as the investigation in Hillary Clinton’s use of a private email server, neither of which resulted in negative outcomes for Clinton. The inspector general is now investigating allegations that McCabe should have recused himself, among other concerns, from the handling of the Clinton email controversy. McCabe’s wife received over $675,000 from Democratic campaign committees, including Clinton loyalists, in her campaign for the Virginia state Senate.

Andrew Weissmann, former chief of the Justice Department Criminal Fraud Section and a former partner at WilmerHale: donates frequently to Democrats. He attended Hillary Clinton’s election night party, and praised then-Acting Attorney General Sally Yates, saying he was "so proud" of her for defying Trump. Weissmann is one of Mueller’s top deputies.

Aaron Zebley, chief of staff for then-FBI Director Mueller, former partner at WilmerHale: represented Justin Cooper, a key figure in the Hillary Clinton email controversy. Zebley is now on the Mueller team.

Justin Cooper, former Bill Clinton aide who set up Hillary Clinton’s private server: admitted to two instances where he destroyed Hillary Clinton’s old mobile devices by breaking them in half or hitting them with a hammer.

Jeannie Rhee, former partner at WilmerHale: represented ex-Obama Deputy National Security Adviser Ben Rhodes, the Clinton Foundation in a 2015 racketeering case, and Hillary Clinton herself in a lawsuit seeking access to her private emails.

Associate Deputy Attorney General Bruce G. Ohr: recently demoted after evidence surfaced of his contacts with Fusion GPS. Inexplicably, Fusion GPS employed Ohr’s wife as well.

Almost every day, we hear of biases and conflicts among the Justice Department-Mueller team – with no end in sight. Investigators did not report their conflicts during the department’s investigation of Hillary Clinton. Mueller’s team continues to ignore its own conflicts of interest in a most unethical way. Our justice system deserves a better outcome. We must clean up the Justice Department and institute an official process to vet our investigators.

What do you call an investigation by Muller's team appointed by Rosenstein that began with no other purpose than to protect all the investigators from criminal action?

Sounds to me like Trump is digging up reasons to fire Mueller, to obstruct the investigation into his ties with Russia. Just more signs of his guilt.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Sounds to me like Trump is digging up reasons to fire Mueller, to obstruct the investigation into his ties with Russia. Just more signs of his guilt.

Sounds like me like you have been persuaded to believe lies.

Got any proof of Trump's guilt?

Why don't you address the proofs I provided of a crooked investigation?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Why don't you address the proofs I provided of a crooked investigation?

Reminds me of the movie fracture where the man in jail gets a private detective to investigate the prosecutor.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Reminds me of the movie fracture where the man in jail gets a private detective to investigate the prosecutor.

Oh yes, of course he is guilty! I watched it every night on the news! Everyone knows it's true.

.....................................

Aren't you the guy who teaches forensics? You know, like follow the evidence?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Oh yes, of course he is guilty! I watched it every night on the news! Everyone knows it's true.

.....................................

Aren't you the guy who teaches forensics? You know, like follow the evidence?

What evidence? If you look at any individual person you can spin it for its worst possible impression. For example: Aren't you the guy who was involved in the leadership of a cult?

[zeek]

Partisan politics has crucified the truth in America.

[awareness]

Now there's no question that the GOP is the party of the rich ... and can no longer identify with Christian principles :

"Tax cut bill goes public as GOP slashes rates for the wealthy, nixes Obamacare penalty, expands child tax credits, dramatically lowers corporate taxes and opens up new Alaska oil drilling"
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...e-penalty.html

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Now there's no question that the GOP is the party of the rich ... and can no longer identify with Christian principles :

"Tax cut bill goes public as GOP slashes rates for the wealthy, nixes Obamacare penalty, expands child tax credits, dramatically lowers corporate taxes and opens up new Alaska oil drilling"
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...e-penalty.html

Party of the rich? The Dems started that line back during the Hoover admin.

Then why is it that nearly every billionaire I see, every musician, every celibrity, every sports star and coach, every comedian, and every successful businessman are all Liberal???

Rich folks did not elect Trump. It was the working class.

Trump just cut my taxes. Does that make me rich?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Trump just cut my taxes. Does that make me rich?

Bahahahahaha!!! Trump hint done nothing yet. But the GOP did cut their taxes in their tax plan, and that of the rich (all those liberals you hate) and International corporations.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Bahahahahaha!!! Trump hint done nothing yet. But the GOP did cut their taxes in their tax plan, and that of the rich (all those liberals you hate) and International corporations.

You reap what you sow. The reason the plan passed was there was a majority in both the house and senate who voted for it. This is a country based on majority rule. Perhaps the rich are able to amplify their voice with their money, still just another example of "you reap what you sow". It is a very precarious position to be the "1%". If you piss off the 99% you are outnumbered. Just ask the French.

[ZNPaaneah]

Extinctions are about 1,000 times more frequent now than in the 60 million years before people came along. (Journal of Conservation Biology)

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Extinctions are about 1,000 times more frequent now than in the 60 million years before people came along. (Journal of Conservation Biology)

Endangered
by TIM FLACH, JONATHAN BAILLIE and SAM WELLS
https://www.npr.org/books/titles/570818453/endangered

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Bahahahahaha!!! Trump hint done nothing yet. But the GOP did cut their taxes in their tax plan, and that of the rich (all those liberals you hate) and International corporations.

"Aint done nothing yet?"

Who you been listening to? You do need another news source bro.

The roll back of yobama regulations alone has validated his presidency. At least for me. I suppose you see things differently. Keep watching "fake news central" at CNN.

And obviously I don't hate liberals. I'm surrounded by them. I don't espouse their views, but still love them. That's like saying I hate unbelievers. How can anyone do that?

[zeek]

Nikki Haley is watching votes and taking names. She must be working for an autocrat.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Nikki Haley is watching votes and taking names. She must be working for an autocrat.

Every President before him lied about Jerusalem, and only Trump has the courage to take action. Exactly one year ago Obama betrayed Israel by his behind-the-scenes sponsoring a pro-Palestinian bill in the UN. Now the UN betrays the USA.

Six Anti-Israel Outrages Inside the U.N. Resolution Opposing Trump’s Jerusalem Recognition

1 – The resolution wrongly implies that Israel’s ties to Jerusalem come from “the acquisition of territory by force.”

The resolution reaffirms “the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by force,” falsely implying that Israel went to war to acquire the West Bank and eastern Jerusalem. The statement also misleadingly implies that Israel’s only connection and claim to those areas come from the “acquisition of territory by force.”

The West Bank contains ancient Jewish cities such as Hebron, Beit El, Shiloh and more. It houses the Tomb of the Patriarchs and Matriarchs, Joseph’s Tomb and Rachel’s tomb, some of the holiest sites in Judaism. Eastern Jerusalem includes Judaism’s holiest site – the Temple Mount – as well as the Old City. Jews maintained a historic presence in Jerusalem, including in the eastern sections, until they were forced to leave the Old City en masse in 1948 and eastern Jerusalem fell under illegal Jordanian occupation.

Jordan illegally occupied and annexed eastern Jerusalem from 1948 until Israel recaptured the lands in a defensive war in 1967. Known as the Six Day War, the conflict was launched after Arab countries used the West Bank and eastern Jerusalem to stage attacks against the Jewish state. Israel did not initiate the war. Israel was forced to defend itself in a war waged by Arab nations with the express goal of annihilating the Jewish state. Israel won against all odds.

If Israel acquired those territories by force, as the U.N. resolution wrongly implies, who exactly are the rightful owners of eastern Jerusalem and the West Bank? In 1988, more than 20 years after Jordan lost its illegal control of the territories, the Kingdom of Jordan officially renounced its illegitimate claims to the West Bank and eastern Jerusalem and unilaterally recognized terrorist Yasser Arafat’s Palestine Liberation Organization as “the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people” seeking to acquire those lands.

In actuality, the Palestinians never had a state in either the West Bank or eastern Jerusalem and they are not legally recognized as the undisputed authorities in those areas.

[awareness]

Post left below.

I'm hearing this kind of stuff from those that want Armageddon. Is that what you are wishing for?

--------------------------------------

Originally Posted by Ohio

Every President before him lied about Jerusalem, and only Trump has the courage to take action. Exactly one year ago Obama betrayed Israel by his behind-the-scenes sponsoring a pro-Palestinian bill in the UN. Now the UN betrays the USA.

Six Anti-Israel Outrages Inside the U.N. Resolution Opposing Trump’s Jerusalem Recognition

1 – The resolution wrongly implies that Israel’s ties to Jerusalem come from “the acquisition of territory by force.”

The resolution reaffirms “the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by force,” falsely implying that Israel went to war to acquire the West Bank and eastern Jerusalem. The statement also misleadingly implies that Israel’s only connection and claim to those areas come from the “acquisition of territory by force.”

The West Bank contains ancient Jewish cities such as Hebron, Beit El, Shiloh and more. It houses the Tomb of the Patriarchs and Matriarchs, Joseph’s Tomb and Rachel’s tomb, some of the holiest sites in Judaism. Eastern Jerusalem includes Judaism’s holiest site – the Temple Mount – as well as the Old City. Jews maintained a historic presence in Jerusalem, including in the eastern sections, until they were forced to leave the Old City en masse in 1948 and eastern Jerusalem fell under illegal Jordanian occupation.

Jordan illegally occupied and annexed eastern Jerusalem from 1948 until Israel recaptured the lands in a defensive war in 1967. Known as the Six Day War, the conflict was launched after Arab countries used the West Bank and eastern Jerusalem to stage attacks against the Jewish state. Israel did not initiate the war. Israel was forced to defend itself in a war waged by Arab nations with the express goal of annihilating the Jewish state. Israel won against all odds.

If Israel acquired those territories by force, as the U.N. resolution wrongly implies, who exactly are the rightful owners of eastern Jerusalem and the West Bank? In 1988, more than 20 years after Jordan lost its illegal control of the territories, the Kingdom of Jordan officially renounced its illegitimate claims to the West Bank and eastern Jerusalem and unilaterally recognized terrorist Yasser Arafat’s Palestine Liberation Organization as “the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people” seeking to acquire those lands.

In actuality, the Palestinians never had a state in either the West Bank or eastern Jerusalem and they are not legally recognized as the undisputed authorities in those areas.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Every President before him lied about Jerusalem, and only Trump has the courage to take action. Exactly one year ago Obama betrayed Israel by his behind-the-scenes sponsoring a pro-Palestinian bill in the UN. Now the UN betrays the USA.

Six Anti-Israel Outrages Inside the U.N. Resolution Opposing Trump’s Jerusalem Recognition

1 – The resolution wrongly implies that Israel’s ties to Jerusalem come from “the acquisition of territory by force.”

The resolution reaffirms “the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by force,” falsely implying that Israel went to war to acquire the West Bank and eastern Jerusalem. The statement also misleadingly implies that Israel’s only connection and claim to those areas come from the “acquisition of territory by force.”

The West Bank contains ancient Jewish cities such as Hebron, Beit El, Shiloh and more. It houses the Tomb of the Patriarchs and Matriarchs, Joseph’s Tomb and Rachel’s tomb, some of the holiest sites in Judaism. Eastern Jerusalem includes Judaism’s holiest site – the Temple Mount – as well as the Old City. Jews maintained a historic presence in Jerusalem, including in the eastern sections, until they were forced to leave the Old City en masse in 1948 and eastern Jerusalem fell under illegal Jordanian occupation.

Jordan illegally occupied and annexed eastern Jerusalem from 1948 until Israel recaptured the lands in a defensive war in 1967. Known as the Six Day War, the conflict was launched after Arab countries used the West Bank and eastern Jerusalem to stage attacks against the Jewish state. Israel did not initiate the war. Israel was forced to defend itself in a war waged by Arab nations with the express goal of annihilating the Jewish state. Israel won against all odds.

If Israel acquired those territories by force, as the U.N. resolution wrongly implies, who exactly are the rightful owners of eastern Jerusalem and the West Bank? In 1988, more than 20 years after Jordan lost its illegal control of the territories, the Kingdom of Jordan officially renounced its illegitimate claims to the West Bank and eastern Jerusalem and unilaterally recognized terrorist Yasser Arafat’s Palestine Liberation Organization as “the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people” seeking to acquire those lands.

In actuality, the Palestinians never had a state in either the West Bank or eastern Jerusalem and they are not legally recognized as the undisputed authorities in those areas.

Obviously, Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as capital of Israel appeals to the numerous Christian Zionists like yourself in his domestic political base.

[zeek]

Donald Trump, the personification of the uncaring, uber-rich white guy who talks disparagingly of women and repeatedly picks fights with people of color, and immigrants has signed the Republican Tax Scam that favors corporations and the wealthy and is headed down here to Mar-A-Lago. All is right in the Republican party of rich, old white men who rig the system to help themselves and don’t give a damn about anyone else.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

Donald Trump, the personification of the uncaring, uber-rich white guy who talks disparagingly of women and repeatedly picks fights with people of color, and immigrants has signed the Republican Tax Scam that favors corporations and the wealthy and is headed down here to Mar-A-Lago. All is right in the Republican party of rich, old white men who rig the system to help themselves and don’t give a damn about anyone else.

“I’m going to trickle my fat ass down to the jewelry story and get me a new Rolex,” Charles Barkley said. “I’m not going to pass it to nobody.”
http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/201...gop_tax_p.html

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Post left below.

I'm hearing this kind of stuff from those that want Armageddon. Is that what you are wishing for?

Originally Posted by zeek

Obviously, Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as capital of Israel appeals to the numerous Christian Zionists like yourself in his domestic political base.

Why should we cower to Mooslam bullies?

Is there another country in the world that is not allowed to have foreign embassies in their capital?

Perhaps you would demand that foreign embassies be located in the Land between the Lakes?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Obviously, Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as capital of Israel appeals to the numerous Christian Zionists like yourself in his domestic political base.

It appealed to Clinton, Bush, and Obama too, that is, until they became spineless.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Donald Trump, the personification of the uncaring, uber-rich white guy who talks disparagingly of women and repeatedly picks fights with people of color, and immigrants has signed the Republican Tax Scam that favors corporations and the wealthy and is headed down here to Mar-A-Lago. All is right in the Republican party of rich, old white men who rig the system to help themselves and don’t give a damn about anyone else.

Obama left the White House a multi-millionaire with hundreds of IOU's falling out of his pockets. Trump is donating his salary to charity.

I'd rather have a successful business man who "buys" the presidency, than a worthless community organizer who "sold" the presidency to foreign interests, like 20% of our Uranium to Russia for a couple hundred million to the Clintons.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

“I’m going to trickle my fat ass down to the jewelry story and get me a new Rolex,” Charles Barkley said. “I’m not going to pass it to nobody.”
http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/201...gop_tax_p.html

Are you really getting your politics from Charles Barkley?

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

It appealed to Clinton, Bush, and Obama too, that is, until they became spineless.

Defying Trump, the U.N. General Assembly voted to condemn Trump's decree on Jerusalem.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Defying Trump, the U.N. General Assembly voted to condemn Trump's decree on Jerusalem.

They have broken the law. The UN has no legal jurisdiction over the USA, a sovereign nation which gives its President the authority to place embassies abroad.

They have attempted to take away the same right which they demand for themselves.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

They have broken the law. The UN has no legal jurisdiction over the USA, a sovereign nation which gives its President the authority to place embassies abroad.

They have attempted to take away the same right which they demand for themselves.

What law did they break?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

They have broken the law. The UN has no legal jurisdiction over the USA, a sovereign nation which gives its President the authority to place embassies abroad.

They have attempted to take away the same right which they demand for themselves.

This vote demonstrates the success of a policy from Saudi Arabia to create an Islamic coalition in the UN. They have actively courted and seduced countries into joining this block of voters in response to financial incentives. It is the largest block of countries to vote together in the UN. Other nations, like the Europeans that depend on imports and trade fear this block more than the US. They also represent major allies of Russia and China. Of course these things are temporary. Since solar has become cheaper this year than fossil fuel and since China and Europe are major producers of solar and wind power it is likely the grip of Aramco will wane like "the dust in the wind".

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

This vote demonstrates the success of a policy from Saudi Arabia to create an Islamic coalition in the UN. They have actively courted and seduced countries into joining this block of voters in response to financial incentives. It is the largest block of countries to vote together in the UN. Other nations, like the Europeans that depend on imports and trade fear this block more than the US. They also represent major allies of Russia and China. Of course these things are temporary. Since solar has become cheaper this year than fossil fuel and since China and Europe are major producers of solar and wind power it is likely the grip of Aramco will wane like "the dust in the wind".

Before Trump, every President rode on a platform of energy independence, being freed from OPEC's tyranny. It may actually occur soon with Keystone pipelines, fracking, ANWAR, etc. So great to have a Prez who actually meant what he said while campaigning!

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

What law did they break?

UN Had No Legal Right to Vote on Resolution Condemning Trump Recognizing Israel’s Capital

The United Nations General Assembly resolution criticizing President Donald Trump’s sovereign right to recognize Israel’s capital, violates at least three articles of the United Nations Charter, and is not within the power of the UN General Assembly to address, for the following reasons:

(1) UN Charter Article 2 (7) prohibits the United Nations from dealing with matters within the sovereign domestic jurisdiction of the United States. Article 2(7) states: “Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state.”

President Trump’s recognition power – his decision to recognize Israel’s capital Jerusalem – is a matter within the domestic jurisdiction of the United States. The U.S. Supreme Court confirmed this in Zivotofsky v. Kerry, 576 U.S. __, 135 U.S. 2076 (2015), saying: “The text and structure of the Constitution grant the President the power to recognize foreign nations and governments.” Thus, the United Nations is prohibited from criticizing the United States’ sovereign right to confer recognition.

(2) If, despite the foregoing and item (3) below, the United Nations nonetheless is authorized to deal with this matter, UN Charter Article 12 prohibits the UN General Assembly from dealing with it, because according to UN Security Council Resolution 2334 (2016), the matter is still before the UN Security Council, which has not requested that the UN General Assembly take action or make recommendations.

UN Charter Article 12 states: “While the Security Council is exercising in respect of any dispute or situation the functions assigned to it in the present Charter, the General Assembly shall not make any recommendation with regard to that dispute or situation unless the Security Council so requests.”

UN Security Council Resolution 2334 (2016), which purports to deal with the status of “East Jerusalem” (a misnomer for the eastern portion of Jerusalem), among other issues, specifically states UN Security Council “Decides to remain seized of the matter.” (UNSC Res. 2334, para. 13.) In other words, the UN Security Council is continuing to exercise jurisdiction of the matter. The UN Security Council has not requested that the General Assembly make recommendations on this matter, and thus the UN General Assembly has no power to pass a resolution regarding the matter. (UN General Assembly resolutions are recommendations.) (UNSC Res. 2334, paragraph 12, merely “Requests the Secretary-General to report to the Council every three months on the implementation of the provisions of the present resolution.” This reporting request does not authorize a UN General Assembly recommendation/resolution.

(3) Like all anti-Israel resolutions, this new proposed anti-American, anti-Israel UN General Assembly resolution violates UN Charter Article 80 (the Jewish people’s clause) – which preserved the Jewish people’s rights to reconstitute the Jewish homeland and closely settle the Palestine Mandate, which encompassed Jerusalem.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Before Trump, every President rode on a platform of energy independence, being freed from OPEC's tyranny. It may actually occur soon with Keystone pipelines, fracking, ANWAR, etc. So great to have a Prez who actually meant what he said while campaigning!

Pipelines and fracking will never result in energy independence. It is not sustainable.

On the other hand Solar, wind, and nuclear could.

30 years from now it could be fusion.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Pipelines and fracking will never result in energy independence. It is not sustainable.

On the other hand Solar, wind, and nuclear could.

30 years from now it could be fusion.

Yeah, let's put all those Santa Anna winds to good use!

Westinghouse Nuclear went belly up. GE hasn't been the same since Welch left.

Where I live, the sun won't shine for a couple more months.

On the contrary, Utica is far bigger than Marcellus.

The USA has the largest coal reserves in the world.

Pipelines will bring Balkan and ANWR oil to market instead of Arab tankers. Don't you think it's about time we stop protecting the Strait of Hormuz for the rest of the world? They seem to hate us anyway.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

UN Had No Legal Right to Vote on Resolution Condemning Trump Recognizing Israel’s Capital

The United Nations General Assembly resolution criticizing President Donald Trump’s sovereign right to recognize Israel’s capital, violates at least three articles of the United Nations Charter, and is not within the power of the UN General Assembly to address, for the following reasons:

(1) UN Charter Article 2 (7) prohibits the United Nations from dealing with matters within the sovereign domestic jurisdiction of the United States. Article 2(7) states: “Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state.”

President Trump’s recognition power – his decision to recognize Israel’s capital Jerusalem – is a matter within the domestic jurisdiction of the United States. The U.S. Supreme Court confirmed this in Zivotofsky v. Kerry, 576 U.S. __, 135 U.S. 2076 (2015), saying: “The text and structure of the Constitution grant the President the power to recognize foreign nations and governments.” Thus, the United Nations is prohibited from criticizing the United States’ sovereign right to confer recognition.

(2) If, despite the foregoing and item (3) below, the United Nations nonetheless is authorized to deal with this matter, UN Charter Article 12 prohibits the UN General Assembly from dealing with it, because according to UN Security Council Resolution 2334 (2016), the matter is still before the UN Security Council, which has not requested that the UN General Assembly take action or make recommendations.

UN Charter Article 12 states: “While the Security Council is exercising in respect of any dispute or situation the functions assigned to it in the present Charter, the General Assembly shall not make any recommendation with regard to that dispute or situation unless the Security Council so requests.”

UN Security Council Resolution 2334 (2016), which purports to deal with the status of “East Jerusalem” (a misnomer for the eastern portion of Jerusalem), among other issues, specifically states UN Security Council “Decides to remain seized of the matter.” (UNSC Res. 2334, para. 13.) In other words, the UN Security Council is continuing to exercise jurisdiction of the matter. The UN Security Council has not requested that the General Assembly make recommendations on this matter, and thus the UN General Assembly has no power to pass a resolution regarding the matter. (UN General Assembly resolutions are recommendations.) (UNSC Res. 2334, paragraph 12, merely “Requests the Secretary-General to report to the Council every three months on the implementation of the provisions of the present resolution.” This reporting request does not authorize a UN General Assembly recommendation/resolution.

(3) Like all anti-Israel resolutions, this new proposed anti-American, anti-Israel UN General Assembly resolution violates UN Charter Article 80 (the Jewish people’s clause) – which preserved the Jewish people’s rights to reconstitute the Jewish homeland and closely settle the Palestine Mandate, which encompassed Jerusalem.

Thanks. Apparently this opinion piece doesn't carry much weight with the members of the UN General Assembly.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Thanks. Apparently this opinion piece doesn't carry much weight with the members of the UN General Assembly.

You're right. Why have they become so lawless and biased?

But I did answer your question about which laws they broke.

And you must ask yourself what will happen to the US if half of our country, and most of the world, continually sides with all of our enemies.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Yeah, let's put all those Santa Anna winds to good use!

Westinghouse Nuclear went belly up. GE hasn't been the same since Welch left.

Where I live, the sun won't shine for a couple more months.

On the contrary, Utica is far bigger than Marcellus.

The USA has the largest coal reserves in the world.

Pipelines will bring Balkan and ANWR oil to market instead of Arab tankers. Don't you think it's about time we stop protecting the Strait of Hormuz for the rest of the world? They seem to hate us anyway.

I felt we should have spent the $1 trillion we spent on wars on the Middle East since 911 on solar and wind.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I felt we should have spent the $1 trillion we spent on wars on the Middle East since 911 on solar and wind.

And roads and bridges and neighborhood youth centers and parks and confederate monuments! We don't have any near us.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

And roads and bridges and neighborhood youth centers and parks and confederate monuments! We don't have any near us.

No. The $1 trillion spent over there was simply to keep the oil flowing. This is the underlying cause of the majority of terrorist attacks.

If spent the $1 trillion instead on being self sufficient in energy it would reduce, even eliminate our need to be over there and that in turn would take away the fuel for the fire of terrorism. 1 trillion might not be enough to make us completely self sufficient, but so what, our demand would decrease so much OPEC would welcome any business we gave them.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

No. The $1 trillion spent over there was simply to keep the oil flowing. This is the underlying cause of the majority of terrorist attacks.

If spent the $1 trillion instead on being self sufficient in energy it would reduce, even eliminate our need to be over there and that in turn would take away the fuel for the fire of terrorism. 1 trillion might not be enough to make us completely self sufficient, but so what, our demand would decrease so much OPEC would welcome any business we gave them.

Perhaps we are over there to protect Israel.

I do believe that American "greatness" is twofold a blessing to the world and a protection to Israel.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Perhaps we are over there to protect Israel.

I do believe that American "greatness" is twofold a blessing to the world and a protection to Israel.

That makes America a dishonest broker of peace in the middle east.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

That makes America a dishonest broker of peace in the middle east.

Oh really?

And why is it that all of your "honest" brokers want to destroy Israel?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Perhaps we are over there to protect Israel.

I do believe that American "greatness" is twofold a blessing to the world and a protection to Israel.

Our invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq has done absolutely nothing to protect Israel.

Our financial aid to Egypt, our diplomatic efforts with Jordan, and our military aid to Israel on the other hand has done a lot. Not one dollar of the $1 Trillion (recently referred to as $4 trillion by Trump) has gone to make Israel safer.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

That makes America a dishonest broker of peace in the middle east.

The peace process is completely stacked against Israel. All of the surrounding nations were there enemies -- Egypt, Jordan, Syria, PLO, and Iran. In the UN the block of Islamic states is the biggest block, well funded, and vote as one because they have been bought by OPEC. The only way to keep this process even remotely honest is for the US to be a counterbalance. If this were a honest process then Palestine would have accepted the last Peace offer as they won't get a better offer.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Our invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq has done absolutely nothing to protect Israel.

Our financial aid to Egypt, our diplomatic efforts with Jordan, and our military aid to Israel on the other hand has done a lot. Not one dollar of the $1 Trillion (recently referred to as $4 trillion by Trump) has gone to make Israel safer.

Saddam was a sworn enemy if Israel, and they had already invaded Kuwait.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

The peace process is completely stacked against Israel. All of the surrounding nations were there enemies -- Egypt, Jordan, Syria, PLO, and Iran. In the UN the block of Islamic states is the biggest block, well funded, and vote as one because they have been bought by OPEC. The only way to keep this process even remotely honest is for the US to be a counterbalance. If this were a honest process then Palestine would have accepted the last Peace offer as they won't get a better offer.

For over a billion Muslams, Palestine only exists to destroy Israel.

There is no "peace" process.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Saddam was a sworn enemy if Israel, and they had already invaded Kuwait.

How is invading Kuwait a threat to Israel? Also, how can you be a leader in the Middle East if you aren't a sworn enemy of Israel?

Saddam was able to balance a fundamentalist population with a Christian population. As bad a guy that Saddam and his sons were, by comparison with every other state in the Middle East he was the least threatening to Israel and acted as a nice buffer between Iran.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

How is invading Kuwait a threat to Israel? Also, how can you be a leader in the Middle East if you aren't a sworn enemy of Israel?

Saddam was able to balance a fundamentalist population with a Christian population. As bad a guy that Saddam and his sons were, by comparison with every other state in the Middle East he was the least threatening to Israel and acted as a nice buffer between Iran.

At the time, Saddam appeared more menacing than Iran. All nations' intel said he had nukes. Hindsight is great now.

Saddam invaded Kuwait showing the world how dangerous he was.

Why did the Bushes have it out for Saddam though? There are things we don't know. He was not the existential threat to us as Kim is now.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

All the posters here are quick to condemn Dubya for invading Iraq, but why does no one fault BarryO for what he did and did not do in Libya, Egypt, Syria, Iraq. Arab spring anyone?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

At the time, Saddam appeared more menacing than Iran. All nations' intel said he had nukes. Hindsight is great now.

Saddam invaded Kuwait showing the world how dangerous he was.

Why did the Bushes have it out for Saddam though? There are things we don't know. He was not the existential threat to us as Kim is now.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

All the posters here are quick to condemn Dubya for invading Iraq, but why does no one fault BarryO for what he did and did not do in Libya, Egypt, Syria, Iraq. Arab spring anyone?

Not the whataboutism gambit again. I get it. The black man is to blame for everything.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Not the whataboutism gambit again. I get it. The black man is to blame for everything.

No, of course not, because Bush was blamed for everything until Trump decided to run.

That's what I like about women and minority Politicians, they can't be held responsible for anything they do. Just accuse them of racism or misogyny.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

At the time, Saddam appeared more menacing than Iran. All nations' intel said he had nukes. Hindsight is great now.

Saddam invaded Kuwait showing the world how dangerous he was.

Why did the Bushes have it out for Saddam though? There are things we don't know. He was not the existential threat to us as Kim is now.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

All the posters here are quick to condemn Dubya for invading Iraq, but why does no one fault BarryO for what he did and did not do in Libya, Egypt, Syria, Iraq. Arab spring anyone?

Are you serious? We know exactly why the Bush's (and Cheney) had it out for him. Iraq was sitting on the largest natural reserves of oil, second only to Saudi Arabia. However, Saudi Arabia was not accessible since they booby trapped all of their oil fields with dirty nukes.

We know that those at the highest level knew that Osama was not in any way associated with Iraq yet Cheney demanded that Iraq be blamed for 911 and be invaded. Invading Iraq put our army in control of the largest oil field available, invading Afghanistan put our military in control of new gas fields discovered in Turkmenistan. The old "leave the gun, take the canoli" attitude of a true killer.

Saddam knew this, that is why he set the oil fields on fire.

No one thought Saddam was any more of a threat than he turned out to be, that is a sitting duck. He thought Bush gave him the green light to invade Kuwait. Once again, a simple deceit giving us a fig leaf to justify our invasion.

As for Obama -- we spent trillions on the Bush wars (according to Trump it is now $4 trillion). Half of our forces are mercenaries. They have turned the US into a paper tiger -- Obama was administering the reality of what we had left. Remember, the first Iraq war was financed largely by Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. Imagine if we did stretch ourselves out to the max, that would be an invitation to North Korea. Discretion is the better part of valor.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Are you serious?

I thought I was. You question my seriousness?

Merry Christmas to all!

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I thought I was. You question my seriousness?

Merry Christmas to all!

There was no Merry Christmas when I was in the LC. We didn't celebrate pagan holydays.

[zeek]

Merry Christmas everyone!

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

Merry Christmas everyone!

Happy holy days to all!

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

Merry Christmas everyone!

You can only say that because Trump brought it back.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by awareness

You can only say that because Trump brought it back.

[zeek]

Everything that King Midas touched turned to gold. At first it seemed like a blessing, for this power promised to make him the richest man in the world. But turning everything he touched to gold would eventually make the king the most spiritually and emotionally poor man that could be. How do you eat food hardened into metal? How do you smell the fragrance in a golden flower? How can you receive love from a gold statue? How do you follow God if your heart is full of greed? A wise man once said, you cannot serve both God and Mammon.

The Midas parable is about the dangers of psychological inflation. Psychological inflation occurs when an individual’s ego becomes merged with the unconscious image of God. The person's self-image becomes puffed up...inflated.

Sadly, Donald Trump is afflicted with psychological inflation. Like Midas with his golden touch, this extreme form of egocentricity turned everything around him into an inanimate object. Because he is obsessed with control, others are like dead stone to him...a projection of his own heart.

Throughout his life Donald Trump became increasingly manipulative, a mask cut-off from his soul. There is no genuine caring or love in him because his ego was wedded to its own self-image and loves only itself. Cut of from others, the inner Trump does not know, and cannot know, authentic human relationships. That would be sad if it only affected Trump and those in his innermost circle. But, in this case, "King Midas" is the most powerful man in the world. If he is not stopped, he may bring the Midas curse on us all.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

You can only say that because Trump brought it back.

He didn't just bring back Christmas he also brought back the use of coal! Let's give him credit where credit is due.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

He didn't just bring back Christmas he also brought back the use of coal! Let's give him credit where credit is due.

Very important for the forgotten miners in PA, WV, and KY.

But for the wealthy coastline liberals, they could care less and long as their new I-Phone works.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Very important for the forgotten miners in PA, WV, and KY.

My point was that he did bring back Christmas for all the good little corporations, filling their stockings with very fat permanent tax breaks, and he balanced this by giving coal to all the bad little poor people who live next to the coal plants and breathe in the fumes.

Originally Posted by Ohio

But for the wealthy coastline liberals, they could care less and long as their new I-Phone works.

Not true, the wealthy coastline liberals like myself do care. We care about the carcinogens and asthma that comes from burning coal. We care about the intentional disinformation of labeling it "clean coal". We care that the big power companies are doing everything in their ability to prevent people from buying solar. In Florida it is illegal to buy solar except through the local power company. In NY the power companies are putting together a class action suit against the solar companies on bogus charges (we were invited to join the class action suit but declined). Now even though the US has cleaned up its act significantly, it is still a cumulative sum game. When you look at cities in China and India and the smog from their coal you can see just how polluting and deadly it is.

Here is another thing we care about. The price of solar is directly related to the volume of sales. As more solar is sold the price comes down. As of this year solar is now cheaper than coal. If the US, China and India combined forces we could drive the price down incredibly, so much so that you would see it adopted worldwide, just like smart phones. China and India are doing this, but where or where is the US? Are we really going to let this technology go to the Asians like we did with transistors?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

My point was that he did bring back Christmas for all the good little corporations, filling their stockings with very fat permanent tax breaks, and he balanced this by giving coal to all the bad little poor people who live next to the coal plants and breathe in the fumes.

Not true, the wealthy coastline liberals like myself do care. We care about the carcinogens and asthma that comes from burning coal. We care about the intentional disinformation of labeling it "clean coal". We care that the big power companies are doing everything in their ability to prevent people from buying solar. In Florida it is illegal to buy solar except through the local power company. In NY the power companies are putting together a class action suit against the solar companies on bogus charges (we were invited to join the class action suit but declined). Now even though the US has cleaned up its act significantly, it is still a cumulative sum game. When you look at cities in China and India and the smog from their coal you can see just how polluting and deadly it is.

Here is another thing we care about. The price of solar is directly related to the volume of sales. As more solar is sold the price comes down. As of this year solar is now cheaper than coal. If the US, China and India combined forces we could drive the price down incredibly, so much so that you would see it adopted worldwide, just like smart phones. China and India are doing this, but where or where is the US? Are we really going to let this technology go to the Asians like we did with transistors?

Your wind and solar dreams are only real with their infinite assumptions like snow-free and cloud-free skies with 24 hours of daylight. Your liberal idealistic bias was on full display here, but I do like solar. Where I am, unless there are heavy tax credits, which I could use, there is no way it is economically feasible.

If China and India used the coal scrubber technology we have, the world would be a much cleaner place. That's one reason why the Paris accord was scrapped. It penalized America The Clean for the sins of the world.

I like ground source hump pump technology instead of home coal. I am surrounded by clean-coal-burning power plants. Excellent use of our resources. What really pollutes the air is home-coal, because it is so dirty.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Your wind and solar dreams are only real with their infinite assumptions like snow-free and cloud-free skies with 24 hours of daylight. Your liberal idealistic bias was on full display here, but I do like solar. Where I am, unless there are heavy tax credits, which I could use, there is no way it is economically feasible.

If China and India used the coal scrubber technology we have, the world would be a much cleaner place. That's one reason why the Paris accord was scrapped. It penalized America The Clean for the sins of the world.

I like ground source hump pump technology instead of home coal. I am surrounded by clean-coal-burning power plants. Excellent use of our resources. What really pollutes the air is home-coal, because it is so dirty.

We have already drastically changed the chemistry of the atmosphere from just 170 years ago at the beginning of the Industrial age. Today the population is 14x's what it was then and growing. Therefore even if we use much cleaner technology, 50% cleaner, even 80% cleaner we will still be increasing the CO2 levels by more than we were back then. There is no way for the Earth to return to homeostasis without a 0 emissions. We have the technology to do that, it should be a priority for us, it is a priority for many other countries who see that they cannot possibly use coal without making their cities uninhabitable.

12 months ago I checked solar and it was not economic for me as well. However, the price has fallen dramatically since then and the same company that told me we weren't economic then says we are now. Now that is looking simply at the cost of the electricity and ignoring the health benefits and environmental benefits. Likewise it is looking at the cost today, ignoring the fact that fossil fuel energy will likely rise in cost over the next 25 years.

Also this is taking into account cloudy days, snowy days, etc. They estimate the total power produced over the lifetime of the solar panels. Yes it is true that these things don't produce power at night, on cloudy, snowy days, and they produce less power in the winter than summer. This is why you need batteries, a way to store the power, and this is why you need to combine this with wind (you do get wind at night and on snowy days) and nuclear.

Currently the US is less than 2% of our electricity from solar. Since energy consumption drops by much more than that in the winter the "snowy days" argument is a straw man that is irrelevant. There are several countries whose use of wind and solar exceeds 20%. In my opinion that should be a US goal every bit as significant as trying to land a man on the moon or building highways across the country.

Germany and China both are doing a better job than we are. Both of these countries are very focused on a successful economy and they both have coal. People need to wake up, in the 1970s you could argue that this was a trivial technology, not anymore. It is growing exponentially, doubling each year, and either we embrace it as much as our space program or else we'll be importing energy from China instead of OPEC.

All we need is to eliminate the legal barriers and hurdles involved in letting people put solar on their house.

Please note, even the Pentagon realized that solar provided better national security and has a large contract for solar. In the event of a war or terrorist attack the Pentagon does not want to be crippled by a power plant being attacked. It is called "distributed energy". It would enable our telecommunications to continue to be up and running in the event of an attack. We are in an age of terrorism, just another reason why we should embrace solar.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Germany and China both are doing a better job than we are. Both of these countries are very focused on a successful economy and they both have coal. People need to wake up, in the 1970s you could argue that this was a trivial technology, not anymore. It is growing exponentially, doubling each year, and either we embrace it as much as our space program or else we'll be importing energy from China instead of OPEC.

All we need is to eliminate the legal barriers and hurdles involved in letting people put solar on their house.

We have strikingly different world views which is evidenced here.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

We have strikingly different world views which is evidenced here.

Does it depend on world views? If solar wasn't so expensive I'd of adopted it long ago. I dislike the electric companies. I noticed farmers around here with large solar panels. They're prolly selling it back to the electric company.

The brother I've spoken about before, the one that went from local church elder to Native American shaman, lives off the grid, powered by wind.

He told me he'd help me build a wind generator. But upon looking at the map of wind friendly locations, I found it wouldn't work here.

So I burn wood for heat. That's not environmentally friendly either, but it's the best I can do right now. It's colder, as they say, than a witches tit here. No snow, like prolly bro Ohio has, but dipping to 11 at night, and hanging below freezing, so I'm burning thru a lot of wood.

I've become a fire worshiper. I love my stove. Prometheus sure did us a big favor, even if he defied Zeus by stealing fire and introducing it to us mortals. He made a great self sacrifice for us, and got punished for it. Thanks Prometheus.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Does it depend on world views? If solar wasn't so expensive I'd of adopted it long ago. I dislike the electric companies. I noticed farmers around here with large solar panels. They're prolly selling it back to the electric company.

The brother I've spoken about before, the one that went from local church elder to Native American shaman, lives off the grid, powered by wind.

He told me he'd help me build a wind generator. But upon looking at the map of wind friendly locations, I found it wouldn't work here.

So I burn wood for heat. That's not environmentally friendly either, but it's the best I can do right now. It's colder, as they say, than a witches tit here. No snow, like prolly bro Ohio has, but dipping to 11 at night, and hanging below freezing, so I'm burning thru a lot of wood.

I've become a fire worshiper. I love my stove. Prometheus sure did us a big favor, even if he defied Zeus by stealing fire and introducing it to us mortals. He made a great self sacrifice for us, and got punished for it. Thanks Prometheus.

Do you have a Franklin stove? My dad had one, very efficient. 0 emissions does not mean we can't burn wood. Simply that we can't burn fossil fuel. Of course we generally think of biofuel, but wood is also a "biofuel" that is renewable.

In 2014 the cost per watt for Solar panels averages $3.86, in 2017 it was $3.17. That is a substantial drop in price and the drop in price has been accelerating in the last 12 months.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

We have strikingly different world views which is evidenced here.

The wealthy coastline liberals are located where there is excellent resource for wind. Why shouldn't we develop this resource so that we have a domestic supply of energy rather than import it? How can you claim that we have "forgotten the coal miners of WV and PA"? We have to support their development of a dirty resource that is damaging to our health but cannot develop our own resource which does not damage the environmental health of anyone on the coast or in those states as well?! If we have to support WV's right to mine coal, why shouldn't they support the right of coastline states to develop their offshore wind resource?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

The wealthy coastline liberals are located where there is excellent resource for wind. Why shouldn't we develop this resource so that we have a domestic supply of energy rather than import it? How can you claim that we have "forgotten the coal miners of WV and PA"? We have to support their development of a dirty resource that is damaging to our health but cannot develop our own resource which does not damage the environmental health of anyone on the coast or in those states as well?! If we have to support WV's right to mine coal, why shouldn't they support the right of coastline states to develop their offshore wind resource?

It's your liberal bias that has you convinced that coal is such a dirty resource. There are coal powered generating plants all over, and the air is clean, there is no soot. I'd prefer to live by a coal plant than LA smog or NYC filth.

Both Obama and Clinton had the goal to shut down all coal. I never was a fan of eastern coal because I know that western coal is more economical and burns cleaner, but I strongly protest Obama's endless regulations which sacrifice American industry, resources, and jobs. Obama saw nothing wrong with the whole state of WV on welfare, food stamps, and opioid addicts. Trump does, and for that I really appreciate his leadership.

And I like the way his new tax plan penalizes high priced blue states! Praise God!

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Does it depend on world views? If solar wasn't so expensive I'd of adopted it long ago. I dislike the electric companies. I noticed farmers around here with large solar panels. They're prolly selling it back to the electric company.

The brother I've spoken about before, the one that went from local church elder to Native American shaman, lives off the grid, powered by wind.

He told me he'd help me build a wind generator. But upon looking at the map of wind friendly locations, I found it wouldn't work here.

My brother tried to put up a windmill. He is in a fairly high wind area. We were looking at the wind charts. He wanted to get off the grid too.

He ran into endless regulations. He needed a larger yard than two acres, because he had to have a fall zone which matched the height of the windmill and vanes -- very prohibitive.

Why don't the same fall zones exist for cell towers and high tension lines?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Do you have a Franklin stove?

I wish. It's an ancient Ember Hearth, prolly 70 or 80 year old. It was given to me. It takes 4 strong men to even pick it up. Moving it is another matter ; just a jump at a time.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Do you have a Franklin stove? My dad had one, very efficient. 0 emissions does not mean we can't burn wood. Simply that we can't burn fossil fuel. Of course we generally think of biofuel, but wood is also a "biofuel" that is renewable.

In 2014 the cost per watt for Solar panels averages $3.86, in 2017 it was $3.17. That is a substantial drop in price and the drop in price has been accelerating in the last 12 months.

Without an efficient stove, wood is far dirtier than oil or coal. It is mostly banned in all the cities, though they are lax with fire places.

My area can go without sun for weeks in December. I have no south-facing roof for panels. With nat gas so economical, I would not even consider alternative fuels or heating technology since the house would never sell.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Without an efficient stove, wood is far dirtier than oil or coal. It is mostly banned in all the cities, though they are lax with fire places.

My area can go without sun for weeks in December. I have no south-facing roof for panels. With nat gas so economical, I would not even consider alternative fuels or heating technology since the house would never sell.

Yes, wood is dirtier. There is a very good reason why it is banned in many cities. However, if you are collecting firewood and burning it that is a "renewable resource" and hence can be part of a 0 emissions goal.

Coal on the other hand takes millions of years to form. It is a fossil fuel.

It is a simple mathematical equation -- the amount of carbon that enters the atmosphere each year must equal the amount that comes out. Carbon is not the villain, the villain is the excess carbon. 100 years ago there were very few options other than coal (wind, water). But today that is not true by any stretch. 50 years ago you could argue that solar and wind are not an economically viable option, that also is no longer true by any analysis.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Yes, wood is dirtier. There is a very good reason why it is banned in many cities. However, if you are collecting firewood and burning it that is a "renewable resource" and hence can be part of a 0 emissions goal.

Coal on the other hand takes millions of years to form. It is a fossil fuel.

It is a simple mathematical equation -- the amount of carbon that enters the atmosphere each year must equal the amount that comes out. Carbon is not the villain, the villain is the excess carbon. 100 years ago there were very few options other than coal (wind, water). But today that is not true by any stretch. 50 years ago you could argue that solar and wind are not an economically viable option, that also is no longer true by any analysis.

For me it never was an either/or option. Many of my rural friends burn wood efficiently. When I had a huge tree cut down last year, I had them stack all the wood along the street - common practice - and within a couple days it was all gone, picked up by guys in pickup trucks who have wood stoves. If awareness was closer, he would have got all the wood.

The point is - we should have diversity. Where I am, coal power plants are great, and solar is mostly stupid. Out in Arizona, coal is stupid, and solar is super. I'd like to see fracking natural gas be used in more homes, but with the incredible advances in heat pump technology, it is now the best option for rural America. My in-laws, who get no winter sunshine, living on the north side of a mountain, dug four wells in the yard, and now got all the cheap heat they will ever need. My brother used to live in Queens, and he thought Nuclear was a horrible idea there because of evacuation, but it seems to work great in the rural South and Midwest. Like I said, diversity! Options!

And some politician in WashDC should not be able to shut down the coal industry, simply because the coastline liberal elites agree with him. Yet if he really cared for environmental safety, he would not have permitted dozens of train consists daily to move high volatile Balkan crude through the cities to enrich his buddy Warren Buffett who owned the trains.

Trump has replaced corruption with common sense contrary to mainstream media chatter -- oh yeah, after months and months they still have found no evidence of Russian collusion. But don't stop looking, it's got to be there somewhere.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Yes, wood is dirtier. There is a very good reason why it is banned in many cities. However, if you are collecting firewood and burning it that is a "renewable resource" and hence can be part of a 0 emissions goal.

Coal on the other hand takes millions of years to form. It is a fossil fuel.

It is a simple mathematical equation -- the amount of carbon that enters the atmosphere each year must equal the amount that comes out. Carbon is not the villain, the villain is the excess carbon. 100 years ago there were very few options other than coal (wind, water). But today that is not true by any stretch. 50 years ago you could argue that solar and wind are not an economically viable option, that also is no longer true by any analysis.

Let's face it, we all leave an environmental footprint of some kind.

Back in the 1800s, when world population was only a billion, it wasn't much of a problem. Now, with over 7 billion even the smallest footprint is a concern.

So far, seems, war, disease, famines, catastrophes, etc., haven't been able to slow population explosion.

It's gonna take God to do it ... in the great flame out. But if He delay's, we don't need Him, we can do it ourselves.

Sooner or later humans will become as extinct as the dinosaurs. But not to worry, we, a superior more intelligent and self-conscious, being came along after them. Maybe that will happen after we're gone.

In other words, our end allows God another chance. Maybe He's learned something, and will get it right the next time.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Let's face it, we all leave an environmental footprint of some kind.

Back in the 1800s, when world population was only a billion, it wasn't much of a problem. Now, with over 7 billion even the smallest footprint is a concern.

Many environmentalists teach this, but I disagree. I don't think the farmer in Kurdistan burning dung is a concern. I think that cities are the concern. If Shanghai decided to generate electricity by burning wood that would be a huge concern, but if you own a couple of acres of land and want to gather the firewood and burn it each winter, that to me is something the Earth can handle.

Originally Posted by awareness

So far, seems, war, disease, famines, catastrophes, etc., haven't been able to slow population explosion.

I think we should be good stewards. A massive die off of people would not be a solution, it would simply make it impossible for us to develop cleaner technologies.

Originally Posted by awareness

It's gonna take God to do it ... in the great flame out. But if He delay's, we don't need Him, we can do it ourselves.

Sooner or later humans will become as extinct as the dinosaurs. But not to worry, we, a superior more intelligent and self-conscious, being came along after them. Maybe that will happen after we're gone.

In other words, our end allows God another chance. Maybe He's learned something, and will get it right the next time.

We were assigned the responsibility of taking care of the Earth. It is our responsibility. If we fail it is essentially insignificant. The Earth has had 5 extinctions in the last 500 million years, this will be the 6th. That only refers to the last 500 million years, the Earth is 4.6 billion years. So in the grand scheme of things on Earth this would merely make the top 10. However, there are 8 planets in our solar system, very arrogant to think that they don't matter. Finally, from the grand prospective the Sun would have to be far more important than any planet. So as far as our solar system is concerned this climate change barely registers as an important event. Still there are a billion stars in our galaxy, so from the galaxies perspective it is completely insignificant.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

We were assigned the responsibility of taking care of the Earth. It is our responsibility. If we fail it is essentially insignificant.

I just don't believe that this current earth is man's permanent home. Before Genesis the earth was uninhabitable, and according to Revelation, it will soon be once again uninhabitable. That's not to say that we should be reckless and destroy the planet, but that we should recognize what our Creator is doing. We also must recognize that mankind will reap what he has sown for centuries.

This planet is changing, and it should warn us of His coming. Independent of our "carbon footprint," we are facing climate changes, tsunamis, earthquakes, hurricanes, tornadoes, forest fires, deluges, etc. We cannot foolishly blame all these events on Trump for canceling the Paris climate accord. That accord was a fool's dream, just an American cash giveaway. Obama was good at that.

Sure I sound apocalyptic, and I am, but trying to believe that mankind will save itself is far worse idiocy. We can't even protect ourselves from a crazed dictator the other side of the world. At this rate, every terrorist organization will have nukes in another decade. Nuclear technology is spreading, and like awareness told us, mankind will kill himself off unless the Lord Jesus returns to save those who remain.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Many environmentalists teach this, but I disagree. I don't think the farmer in Kurdistan burning dung is a concern. I think that cities are the concern. If Shanghai decided to generate electricity by burning wood that would be a huge concern, but if you own a couple of acres of land and want to gather the firewood and burn it each winter, that to me is something the Earth can handle.

The earth can handle everything. Virtually everything goes back to the earth over time.

Originally Posted by ZNP

I think we should be good stewards.

I agree.

Originally Posted by ZNP

We were assigned the responsibility of taking care of the Earth.

The problem is more like that we took responsibility to care for the earth. If we hadn't taken ourselves out of the food chain some 10,000 years ago, the population of human species would have remained balanced like all the rest of the species.

You'll like this one bro ZNP. If man had live only by his animal instincts, like all the rest of the critters, the population would have remained balanced. But something happened. We developed self consciousness and intelligence -- symbolized by the tree of knowledge of good and evil -- and took control, told God to screw off, that we'd no longer trust in His providing for sustenance, and would "TAKE" it away from Him. That was the birth of Totalitarian Agriculture. More food, more population. That's an evolutionary principle, that all the rest of the species live by.

Maybe that's why God rejected Cain's offering ... God didn't like Totalitarian Agriculture, as the Cains' "fruit of the ground" symbolism may represent (Gen 4:3).

Originally Posted by ZNP

It is our responsibility. If we fail it is essentially insignificant. The Earth has had 5 extinctions in the last 500 million years, this will be the 6th. That only refers to the last 500 million years, the Earth is 4.6 billion years. So in the grand scheme of things on Earth this would merely make the top 10. However, there are 8 planets in our solar system, very arrogant to think that they don't matter. Finally, from the grand prospective the Sun would have to be far more important than any planet. So as far as our solar system is concerned this climate change barely registers as an important event. Still there are a billion stars in our galaxy, so from the galaxies perspective it is completely insignificant.

Amen brother.

Check out The Power of Ten ... our insignificance in the universe will blow your mind:
http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/primer/f...f10/index.html

Hint: Let it run on auto at first. Pay attention to the banner at the top. When it's done you can run it, or play it backwards. Then you can control it.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

You'll like this one bro ZNP. If man had live only by his animal instincts, like all the rest of the critters, the population would have remained balanced. But something happened. We developed self consciousness and intelligence -- symbolized by the tree of knowledge of good and evil -- and took control, told God to screw off, that we'd no longer trust in His providing for sustenance, and would "TAKE" it away from Him. That was the birth of Totalitarian Agriculture. More food, more population. That's an evolutionary principle, that all the rest of the species live by.

Maybe that's why God rejected Cain's offering ... God didn't like Totalitarian Agriculture, as the Cains' "fruit of the ground" symbolism may represent (Gen 4:3).

It was the "tree of good and evil". Prior to that we didn't have this concept. Every tree, every animal had a place, a position, a function. After this certain crops were good and others were "weeds". Certain animals were valuable and others were "pests". This in turn is the tree of death. We developed herbicide and pesticide. We had to keep coming up with better and more ingenious ways to kill. How do we kill the "evil" plants. How do we kill the "evil" insects, the "evil" critters. This in turn has thrown the entire earth out of whack. Brazilian rainforest is burned down so that cows who are not native to Brazil can have a grassland for hamburgers. All of the empires turned their lands to deserts. I think it is pretty clear in hindsight that the "agricultural revolution" was lacking any vision or revelation from God. Cain is a good example of one who was devoid of God's word. Abel on the other hand understood from God's actions that we would need to be covered in skins. He read between the lines and began to be a shepherd. The reason the Judeao Chrstian religion spread across the globe was because we were shepherds and kept herds of animals. The resulting childhood diseases wiped out all the indigenous people. Why didn't they keep herds? There were no animals on their continents that were suitable to be domesticated. Perhaps that is the legacy of the flood and Noah preserving the animals in the boat, that may be why 18 out of 19 of the world's domesticated animals were in Mesopotamia. It may also be why so many large herbivores around the globe suddenly and without explanation went extinct about 10,000 years ago.

[zeek]

The dangerous cult of Donald Trump: http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed...06-story.html#

We were in the cult of Witness Lee. We should recognize the signs of a cult displayed by Trump and his followers and warn others.

[Ohio]

I agree with Donald Trump. Where's a little global warming when we need it.

It's so cold out there!

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

We were in the cult of Witness Lee. We should recognize the signs of a cult displayed by Obama and his followers and warn others.

I agree with you there. Have you not been mesmerized by the rock star status of BarryO? He is now hob-nobbing with royalty. The world cannot slurp enough of ole Hussein.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I agree with Donald Trump. Where's a little global warming when we need it.

It's so cold out there!

Neither Trump nor you seem to know what climate is.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I agree with you there. Have you not been mesmerized by the rock star status of BarryO? He is now hob-nobbing with royalty. The world cannot slurp enough of ole Hussein.

You changed my words. How funny. I'm not uncritical of Obama or anybody else especially people who are in power. Lord Acton was right as history continues to show.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

You changed my words. How funny. I'm not uncritical of Obama or anybody else especially people who are in power.

Oh I understand.

With all the liberals, you keep your criticisms to yourself.

With conservatives, you exercise your 1st Amend right.

Right!

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Neither Trump nor you seem to know what climate is.

I have lived my whole life with the fear-mongering politicization of climate.

Back in high school and college, when the climate was trending cooler, we were constantly spooked by the next ice age, with whooly mammoths frozen in blocks of ice. Back in the 90's, when the climate was trending warmer, we were constantly spooked by global warming. I love it when these climate pundits tell us that global warming is bringing us frigid temps.

Personally I think all these global alarmists should take their message to China, India, and Russia where it might do some good.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I agree with Donald Trump. Where's a little global warming when we need it.

It's so cold out there!

Is that supposed to be funny? I doubt those in Houston are laughing, or those in Puerto Rico or those in California. It is a comment from an ignoramus and is inexcusable for the President of the US.

"Climate" refers to the average temperature over 100 years or more. We are using averages from 10 or 20 years to depict changes and trends. An average has days that are above average and other days that are below average. Also, when you say "global" you are referring to the entire globe, not merely the US. At the exact same time that a large swath of the US has below average temperatures there are even larger swaths of the Globe that have above average temperatures. In the past 365 days in the US we have had 3.03 record hot days for every record low day. That by definition is climate change.

I am disgusted that Trump could make such an ignorant and inconsiderate comment at a time when many, many people in this country have lost their homes and the lives of their loved ones in catastrophic, climatic events.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I have lived my whole life with the fear-mongering politicization of climate.

Back in high school and college, when the climate was trending cooler, we were constantly spooked by the next ice age, with whooly mammoths frozen in blocks of ice. Back in the 90's, when the climate was trending warmer, we were constantly spooked by global warming. I love it when these climate pundits tell us that global warming is bringing us frigid temps.

Personally I think all these global alarmists should take their message to China, India, and Russia where it might do some good.

Certainly don't need to take it to Puerto Rico, they got the message loud and clear. No doubt don't need to take it to California or Houston or New Orleans.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Is that supposed to be funny? I doubt those in Houston are laughing, or those in Puerto Rico or those in California. It is a comment from an ignoramus and is inexcusable for the President of the US.

"Climate" refers to the average temperature over 100 years or more. We are using averages from 10 or 20 years to depict changes and trends. An average has days that are above average and other days that are below average. Also, when you say "global" you are referring to the entire globe, not merely the US. At the exact same time that a large swath of the US has below average temperatures there are even larger swaths of the Globe that have above average temperatures. In the past 365 days in the US we have had 3.03 record hot days for every record low day. That by definition is climate change.

I am disgusted that Trump could make such an ignorant and inconsiderate comment at a time when many, many people in this country have lost their homes and the lives of their loved ones in catastrophic, climatic events.

You get fired up about everything he says or does. You really need to relax. So now we blame Trump for every natural disaster? So lame.

It used to be Bush who got blamed for all of them. For that, Bush should be grateful to Trump. Historians will now be kind to Bush, since they have Trump to blame everything for.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Certainly don't need to take it to Puerto Rico, they got the message loud and clear. No doubt don't need to take it to California or Houston or New Orleans.

I was referring to air and water quality, not recent disasters.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

You get fired up about everything he says or does. You really need to relax. So now we blame Trump for every natural disaster? So lame.

It used to be Bush who got blamed for all of them. For that, Bush should be grateful to Trump. Historians will now be kind to Bush, since they have Trump to blame everything for.

I blame Trump for being an ignoramus, the President of the US who trivializes Climate Change which is destroying lives all of the US during his presidency. I blame him for being callous and indifferent when he has been put into the position of caring for the country.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I blame Trump for being an ignoramus, the President of the US who trivializes Climate Change which is destroying lives all of the US during his presidency. I blame him for being callous and indifferent when he has been put into the position of caring for the country.

Have you also blamed Obama for expediting the slaughter of Iraqi, Syrian, and Egyptian Christians in the Middle East?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Have you also blamed Obama for expediting the slaughter of Iraqi, Syrian, and Egyptian Christians in the Middle East?

I would agree with you that his policies were far more pro Muslim than our past presidents and that Trump's policy towards Israel seems to be one example of the pendulum swinging back the other way.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Oh I understand.

With all the liberals, you keep your criticisms to yourself.

With conservatives, you exercise your 1st Amend right.

Right!

It probably seems like that to you because we often disagree.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I have lived my whole life with the fear-mongering politicization of climate.

Back in high school and college, when the climate was trending cooler, we were constantly spooked by the next ice age, with whooly mammoths frozen in blocks of ice. Back in the 90's, when the climate was trending warmer, we were constantly spooked by global warming. I love it when these climate pundits tell us that global warming is bringing us frigid temps.

Personally I think all these global alarmists should take their message to China, India, and Russia where it might do some good.

Climate science was in its infancy in the early 70s. One must deny the findings of a massive amount of global scientific research to deny global warming now. Extreme weather events like the Northeast U.S. is having are predicted by the model. When they are factored into world-wide temperatures over a year the earth still experiencing a warming trend. I read that the ratio of hot extremes to cold extremes in the U.S. over the past 365 days exceeds 3 to 1. http://www.climatesignals.org/data/r...cord-low-temps

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I would agree with you that his policies were far more pro Muslim than our past presidents and that Trump's policy towards Israel seems to be one example of the pendulum swinging back the other way.

The Israel thing is causing Christian's to lose sight of the gospel. And supporting politicians who support the rich while taking from the poor is tainting the Christian brand and product ; causing the young of this generation to turn away from cold-hearted Christianity ... and should be seen as self defeating. Talk about being bewitched.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Climate science was in its infancy in the early 70s. One must deny the findings of a massive amount of global scientific research to deny global warming now. Extreme weather events like the Northeast U.S. is having are predicted by the model. When they are factored into world-wide temperatures over a year the earth still experiencing a warming trend. I read that the ratio of hot extremes to cold extremes in the U.S. over the past 365 days exceeds 3 to 1.

Righto matey, and it really helps when the Australian Meteorological Society cooks their books.

And they are the only ones caught so far.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

The Israel thing is causing Christian's to lose sight of the gospel. And supporting politicians who support the rich while taking from the poor is tainting the Christian brand and product ; causing the young of this generation to turn away from cold-hearted Christianity ... and should be seen as self defeating. Talk about being bewitched.

Puleeease get your facts straight, then why are all the rich blue states whining that Trump and the Republican Tax Plan are giving their money to the poor Red States.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

The Israel thing is causing Christian's to lose sight of the gospel. And supporting politicians who support the rich while taking from the poor is tainting the Christian brand and product ; causing the young of this generation to turn away from cold-hearted Christianity ... and should be seen as self defeating. Talk about being bewitched.

The "Israel thing" is forcing us to be peace makers and demonstrating how difficult it is. The situation is unrighteous. It is unrighteous to Israel, it is unrighteous to the Palestinians. I don't see Trump having the solution. However, the uproar over recognizing Jerusalem demonstrates the hypocrisy. I am not aware of any other country where we do not recognize the capital as the capital, not N. Korea, not Taiwan, not Iran, etc. I cannot see how that would cause me to lose sight of the gospel or to become "cold hearted".

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Righto matey, and it really helps when the Australian Meteorological Society cooks their books.

And they are the only ones caught so far.

According to the Australian Meteorological society they have set up an algorithm to identify equipment that might be giving faulty readings. They don't change the readings, which is how most would interpret "cooking the books". Nor are the readings erased as the article clearly references the readings. Instead they are removed from the website until the equipment is checked.

This is the kind of quality control that all corporations use. Calling it "cooking the books" is the worst possible spin on the facts.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Puleeease get your facts straight, then why are all the rich blue states whining that Trump and the Republican Tax Plan are giving their money to the poor Red States.

I have seen news accounts of these rich NYers rushing to meet the deadline. They interviewed a cop who expressed how the difference for him would be about $3,000 and he had no idea how he would pay that and there were also other rich people there like a fireman.

Yes, times are really tough for these rich blue states when our wealthiest can't figure out where to find $3,000 and all these trust fund babies are taking jobs as cops and firemen.

[ZNPaaneah]

As the Christmas holiday weekend set in, the Senate Rules and Administration Committee released a report revealing the Senate has spent $1.5 million on workplace harassment settlements since 1998.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Righto matey, and it really helps when the Australian Meteorological Society cooks their books.

And they are the only ones caught so far.

Brother matey, are you invested in the energy companies? They love that the north pole is melting, and allowing new transport pathways. And Russia, and energy companies, delight that they can get at resources that they once couldn't get at.

So what do you gain by denying climate change?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

The "Israel thing" is forcing us to be peace makers and demonstrating how difficult it is. The situation is unrighteous. It is unrighteous to Israel, it is unrighteous to the Palestinians. I don't see Trump having the solution. However, the uproar over recognizing Jerusalem demonstrates the hypocrisy. I am not aware of any other country where we do not recognize the capital as the capital, not N. Korea, not Taiwan, not Iran, etc. I cannot see how that would cause me to lose sight of the gospel or to become "cold hearted".

Perhaps the "Israel thing" will expose to our liberal friends how much hatred exists in all the Mooslims, all around the world, billions of them, who espouse Islam the phony "religion of peace."

There is never going to be a Palestine "solution" when 2 billion Mooslims hate the Jews more than Hitler and Stalin hated the Jews, and want them all annihilated. Many of these countries have sworn that they only exist to destroy Israel.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Brother matey, are you invested in the energy companies? They love that the north pole is melting, and allowing new transport pathways. And Russia, and energy companies, delight that they can get at resources that they once couldn't get at.

So what do you gain by denying climate change?

When did I deny climate change? It's always been changing!

It's you who deny what is happening, because you refuse to believe the Bible. Read Revelation, read Romans 8.

You put all your trust in science, but science has no idea why things are changing. It is no more due to carbon footprints than science's last prediction that carbon emissions would bring the next ice age.

I made it clear that soon this earth will no longer be habitable. Climate change is just one of the problems we face. What about Nukes, earthquakes, volcanoes, financial meltdown?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I have seen news accounts of these rich NYers rushing to meet the deadline. They interviewed a cop who expressed how the difference for him would be about $3,000 and he had no idea how he would pay that and there were also other rich people there like a fireman.

Yes, times are really tough for these rich blue states when our wealthiest can't figure out where to find $3,000 and all these trust fund babies are taking jobs as cops and firemen.

I'm not buying these news stories.

Oh bleeding hearts!

Let them complain to their politicians about blue state waste and fraud.

Nobody was crying when Obama raised my taxes $3,000.

Be thankful they have public service jobs with great pensions.

I'm sure they are more worried about BLM snipers, than cutting their vacations short a day or two.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

According to the Australian Meteorological society they have set up an algorithm to identify equipment that might be giving faulty readings. They don't change the readings, which is how most would interpret "cooking the books". Nor are the readings erased as the article clearly references the readings. Instead they are removed from the website until the equipment is checked.

This is the kind of quality control that all corporations use. Calling it "cooking the books" is the worst possible spin on the facts.

They got busted, and refused to repent.

So all we get is SPIN!

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

They got busted, and refused to repent.

So all we get is SPIN!

There's no such thing as a no spin zone. All the information is in the spin cycle.

And we're not able to get observational first hand info, except maybe in our immediate life experiences.

So we select what we want to believe. The question is, why do you select what you select?

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Righto matey, and it really helps when the Australian Meteorological Society cooks their books.

And they are the only ones caught so far.

Telling that with the massive evidence of climate change in the past year all you can cite is an skewed hit piece in a right wing rag known for its racism and misogyny.

[awareness]

The Weather Channel fired back at President Donald Trump's tweet this week about the cold weather in the eastern part of the country by explaining how the commander in chief confused climate with weather.
https://www.newsmax.com/politics/the.../29/id/834346/

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Telling that with the massive evidence of climate change in the past year all you can cite is an skewed hit piece in a right wing rag known for its racism and misogyny.

Help! Help! Help! Help! Help! Help! Help! Help! Help! Help! Help!

The sky is falling! The sky is falling! The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

Happy New Year Folks! Ohio is freezing! Please send some climate change! Fast!

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

The Weather Channel fired back at President Donald Trump's tweet this week about the cold weather in the eastern part of the country by explaining how the commander in chief confused climate with weather.
https://www.newsmax.com/politics/the.../29/id/834346/

Trump Trolls Climate Loons; Climate Loons Take Bait

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

Telling that with the massive evidence of climate change in the past year all you can cite is an skewed hit piece in a right wing rag known for its racism and misogyny.

Of course. Bro Ohio told us long ago that it's all a matter of which sources of information you select to take in. Being open to all sources will lead you astray. It appears that he pictures it in his head that, liberals are feeding from poison wells of info; as well as feeding on fake news ... dished out by all the liberal news organizations, diligently conspiring together, to invent nothing but fake news.

It's all a grand conspiracy.

Furthermore, reading his views it looks to me like he sees a grand conspiracy of all the world scientists too, working in concert, day and night, relentlessly, nefariously, to discredit God and the Bible.

That's the purpose's of the astrophysicist's, and all the rest of the physicist's. Including Newton. He was one of the forerunners of this grand conspiracy.

In fact, as that picture implies, that's the whole purpose, from start to finish, of the Hubble Telescope ; to disprove the Biblical world view of the universe. Also throw in the archaeologist's, and without question, leading the way, the evolutionist's.

Methinks brother Ohio sees this grand conspiracy because he seeks to think like the authors of the Bible.

Those iron age thinkers sure can be stubborn, against learning all the new proven facts, unknown to them, of course, of the real universe, in their day. They refuse to evolve with the ever growing knowledge base of proven facts, and actually feel threatened by it/them.

I admit that learning outside of our comfort zone can be painful at times, and there's a tendency to flinch away, and back, into the cozy comfort ignorance ; the ignorance, by the way, of the iron age knowledge, or lack thereof, and their very limited world view, and stunted limited thinking.

As they say : Ignorance is bliss. I think prolly that clique was coined by those Biblical iron-agers. And I don't think that all that very limited thinking and knowledge was all that very blissful.

But some today, mostly of the conservative Christian sort, and Mooslem's (as Ohio likes to say), just love to think like those ancient iron-agers. Don't ask me why. But I think tenaciously hanging onto an old book has something to do with it. In fact, they are known as, people of the book ... not people books ... but BOOK!

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by awareness

Of course. Bro Ohio told us long ago that it's all a matter of which sources of information you select to take in. Being open to all sources will lead you astray. It appears that he pictures it in his head that, liberals are feeding from poison wells of info; as well as feeding on fake news ... dished out by all the liberal news organizations, diligently conspiring together, to invent nothing but fake news.

It's all a grand conspiracy.

Furthermore, reading his views it looks to me like he sees a grand conspiracy of all the world scientists too, working in concert, day and night, relentlessly, nefariously, to discredit God and the Bible.

That's the purpose's of the astrophysicist's, and all the rest of the physicist's. Including Newton. He was one of the forerunners of this grand conspiracy.

In fact, as that picture implies, that's the whole purpose, from start to finish, of the Hubble Telescope ; to disprove the Biblical world view of the universe. Also throw in the archaeologist's, and without question, leading the way, the evolutionist's.

Methinks brother Ohio sees this grand conspiracy because he seeks to think like the authors of the Bible.

Those iron age thinkers sure can be stubborn, against learning all the new proven facts, unknown to them, of course, of the real universe, in their day. They refuse to evolve with the ever growing knowledge base of proven facts, and actually feel threatened by it/them.

I admit that learning outside of our comfort zone can be painful at times, and there's a tendency to flinch away, and back, into the cozy comfort ignorance ; the ignorance, by the way, of the iron age knowledge, or lack thereof, and their very limited world view, and stunted limited thinking.

As they say : Ignorance is bliss. I think prolly that clique was coined by those Biblical iron-agers. And I don't think that all that very limited thinking and knowledge was all that very blissful.

But some today, mostly of the conservative Christian sort, and Mooslem's (as Ohio likes to say), just love to think like those ancient iron-agers. Don't ask me why. But I think tenaciously hanging onto an old book has something to do with it. In fact, they are known as, people of the book ... not people books ... but BOOK!

This climate change thing is taken for granted I think you and others who blindly accept it have never assessed all the facts for yourself. This is part of a one world government attempt to unite all the countries under anti christ. Can I get a witness?

[Ohio]

PATHETIC: Calif Liberal College Uses Football Game to Mock the state of Texas, The Border Wall, Whataburger, their School Mascot, and all things Texan, while playing in Texas!

Watch the toxic Halftime show. It's way beyond disrespectful to their hosts.

Then TCU came from behind to win the Game!

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Of course. Bro Ohio told us long ago that it's all a matter of which sources of information you select to take in. Being open to all sources will lead you astray. It appears that he pictures it in his head that, liberals are feeding from poison wells of info; as well as feeding on fake news ... dished out by all the liberal news organizations, diligently conspiring together, to invent nothing but fake news.

It's all a grand conspiracy.

Furthermore, reading his views it looks to me like he sees a grand conspiracy of all the world scientists too, working in concert, day and night, relentlessly, nefariously, to discredit God and the Bible.

That's the purpose's of the astrophysicist's, and all the rest of the physicist's. Including Newton. He was one of the forerunners of this grand conspiracy.

In fact, as that picture implies, that's the whole purpose, from start to finish, of the Hubble Telescope ; to disprove the Biblical world view of the universe. Also throw in the archaeologist's, and without question, leading the way, the evolutionist's.

Methinks brother Ohio sees this grand conspiracy because he seeks to think like the authors of the Bible.

Those iron age thinkers sure can be stubborn, against learning all the new proven facts, unknown to them, of course, of the real universe, in their day. They refuse to evolve with the ever growing knowledge base of proven facts, and actually feel threatened by it/them.

I admit that learning outside of our comfort zone can be painful at times, and there's a tendency to flinch away, and back, into the cozy comfort ignorance ; the ignorance, by the way, of the iron age knowledge, or lack thereof, and their very limited world view, and stunted limited thinking.

As they say : Ignorance is bliss. I think prolly that clique was coined by those Biblical iron-agers. And I don't think that all that very limited thinking and knowledge was all that very blissful.

But some today, mostly of the conservative Christian sort, and Mooslem's (as Ohio likes to say), just love to think like those ancient iron-agers. Don't ask me why. But I think tenaciously hanging onto an old book has something to do with it. In fact, they are known as, people of the book ... not people books ... but BOOK!

Sounds like you have completely bought into Al Gore's Climate Cult.

Send your money! Buy his books and videos! Shrink your carbon footprint!

While Ozone Al gets to hobnob in the Hamptons with all his rich liberal buddies like BarryO and Leo, gallavanting around the world in his private jet rakin in the bucks. Have you seen their mansions? Their jets?

Yeah climate change! Yeah fake science!

Vote Democrat! Party of the rich and famous!

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

This climate change thing is taken for granted I think you and others who blindly accept it have never assessed all the facts for yourself. This is part of a one world government attempt to unite all the countries under anti christ. Can I get a witness?

carbon dioxide level of the atmosphere — 400 ppm

whereas for the last 400,000 years it never passed 300 and averaged closer to 250 ppm


The planet’s average surface temperature has risen about 2.0 degrees F since 1900

The top 700 meters of the oceans has increased 0.3 degrees F since 1969

Greenland has lost 36 to 60 cubic miles of ice between 2002 and 2006

Antarctica lost about 36 cubic miles of ice between 2002 and 2005

Global sea level rose about 8 inches in the last century.

Arctic sea ice has declined rapidly over the last several decades.

The acidity of the surface of the ocean has increased about 30% since the beginning of the Industrial revolution.

We have seen the frequency, size, and power of extreme events have all increased. More extreme heat events, more extreme droughts, more extreme rainfall, more extreme tropical cyclones, more extra tropical cyclones, more wildfires.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

PATHETIC: Calif Liberal College Uses Football Game to Mock the state of Texas, The Border Wall, Whataburger, their School Mascot, and all things Texan, while playing in Texas!

Watch the toxic Halftime show. It's way beyond disrespectful to their hosts.

Then TCU came from behind to win the Game!

They said very clearly that "the Whitehouse is everyones favorite source for definitely not fake news." Why do you have a problem with that?

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

carbon dioxide level of the atmosphere — 400 ppm

whereas for the last 400,000 years it never passed 300 and averaged closer to 250 ppm


The planet’s average surface temperature has risen about 2.0 degrees F since 1900

The top 700 meters of the oceans has increased 0.3 degrees F since 1969

Greenland has lost 36 to 60 cubic miles of ice between 2002 and 2006

Antarctica lost about 36 cubic miles of ice between 2002 and 2005

Global sea level rose about 8 inches in the last century.

Arctic sea ice has declined rapidly over the last several decades.

The acidity of the surface of the ocean has increased about 30% since the beginning of the Industrial revolution.

We have seen the frequency, size, and power of extreme events have all increased. More extreme heat events, more extreme droughts, more extreme rainfall, more extreme tropical cyclones, more extra tropical cyclones, more wildfires.

You have only stated symptoms. They do not explain the cause.

Climate is so complex it is basically a random walk and people are just fooled into thinking there is a definite cause or reason that isnt really there.

Take a look at the global temp charts they look just like the stock market. Scientists are still trying to predict the future on random walks.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Sounds like you have completely bought into Al Gore's Climate Cult.

Send your money! Buy his books and videos! Shrink your carbon footprint!

lol ...

If I were an Al Gore cult member I'd have to put a stick up my backside, like him. Thanks but no thanks. I've never been a fan of Al.

Originally Posted by Ohio

While Ozone Al gets to hobnob in the Hamptons with all his rich liberal buddies like BarryO and Leo, gallavanting around the world in his private jet rakin in the bucks. Have you seen their mansions? Their jets?

Their story is for you to reduce your footprint, so they can have a giant one ... don't you know? And BarryO has turned out to be quite the likable fellow ... as a recent pole shows he's the most admired person ... to your obvious dismay.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Yeah climate change! Yeah fake science!

Vote Democrat! Party of the rich and famous!

I don't need to vote democrat (I'm a mugwump, remember?). The pubbies voted for those rich guys with their recent tax bill. They do their voting with money ... voting in gov'ment welfare for the rich and corporations.

Aren't you so proud of your party, for rewarding all those rich liberals? You don't like them, but they obviously do. Unlike you they put their money where their mouth is.

And like your most dear personality cult leader, president Donald J. Drumpf -- a democrat in pubbie clothing -- told his rich guests at Mar-a-Lago, hours after signing the tax bill : 'You all just got a lot richer' .... haha .... as they laugh all the way to the bank.

And bro Ohio, after that tax bill, you will no longer be able to deny that the republican party -- the party that claims, falsely obviously, to be of Christian values -- does not support the rich, at the expense of the poor ... a reverse Robin Hood. Christian values ... family values ... bahahahaha rotflmao ... such blatant in your face hypocrisy ... more hypocritical than Al Gore ... that's your party bro Ohio.

You must still be stuck with a cult mentality, or you'd have sense enough to be a mugwump ... and not hook your wagon to a party ... or sports team, for that matter.

[awareness]

Okay bro Ohio, maybe liberals aren't great. But I'll take them any day over these right wing white supremacists:

The battle for Eugene: Chilling photos reveal how white supremacists have 'taken over' a once-liberal Oregon college town with hate crimes on the rise and swastikas plastered over the walls

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...egon-town.html

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Okay bro Ohio, maybe liberals aren't great. But I'll take them any day over these right wing white supremacists:

The battle for Eugene: Chilling photos reveal how white supremacists have 'taken over' a once-liberal Oregon college town with hate crimes on the rise and swastikas plastered over the walls

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...egon-town.html

There's no difference between left wing antifas and white supremacists, they are both hateful and violent. Maybe one difference -- antifas kill the police too.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

lol ...

And bro Ohio, after that tax bill, you will no longer be able to deny that the republican party -- the party that claims, falsely obviously, to be of Christian values -- does not support the rich, at the expense of the poor ... a reverse Robin Hood. Christian values ... family values ... bahahahaha rotflmao ... such blatant in your face hypocrisy ... more hypocritical than Al Gore ... that's your party bro Ohio.

Sorry, folks, but the Republican party is not my church.

The rich wealthy blue state liberals are all in an uproar -- how can that not be good???

It will be a very happy new year!!!

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

You have only stated symptoms. They do not explain the cause.

Hey Evangelical, you got one right!

And you'll be happy to know our new puppy is an aussie!

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

You have only stated symptoms. They do not explain the cause.

Increase in carbon dioxide level is not a symptom, it is the inferred cause. It is simple physics and chemistry. We knew that certain gases were "greenhouse gases" keeping in heat. Once we realized that we were increasing the greenhouse gases we hypothesized that this in turn would lead to global warming. At that time they began to carefully monitor CO2 levels in Hawaii, figuring we would get the most accurate reading in the middle of the pacific, far from the influence of various industrialized centers.

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Climate is so complex it is basically a random walk and people are just fooled into thinking there is a definite cause or reason that isnt really there.

Take a look at the global temp charts they look just like the stock market. Scientists are still trying to predict the future on random walks.

Scientists have become very good at predicting weather 5 days out. To do this requires a detailed understanding of the factors involved and the role each plays. However, these factors in turn result in feedback loops and other consequences. Increase in acid in the ocean will result in the destruction of many organisms that require calcium based shells. Many of these are microscopic. That in turn will have its own consequences. When ice melts less sunlight is reflected back to space and more energy is absorbed.

The issue is not that scientists don't know the factors, the issue is we are not fully clear on how much each should be weighted and the point at which feedback loops kick in. For example, we know that once frozen methane begins to melt that is a major feedback loop. But exactly when and how much will be released at each tick up the temperature scale is still an estimate. This is why we have several different models. If the model is accurate it will predict the future climate. Therefore these models can be tested by plugging in data that is a few years old and seeing how well they predict. Every year we are able to tweak these models to make them correlate better with the actual climate. So far our models have all been undershooting the actual warming (predicting less warming than actually took place). That is strange, you would expect some models to undershoot and some to overshoot. The fact that they all undershoot imo reflects the pressure put on by the attacks and PR campaign from Exxon and others to discredit the science. As a result you are better off being overly conservative.

But you are wrong to say climate "is a random walk". It is simple physics and chemistry.

However, it is very complex. For example, the weight of the ice sheets in Greenland and Antarctica are very great. When you remove 36 cubic miles of ice you are removing a very great weight from each of these areas. That results in something known as "isostatic rebound" -- the earth starts rising. This in turn can trigger earthquakes and volcanic eruptions. There are many "inactive" volcanos in Antarctica that we now know have recently become active. This is another feedback loop. So as the ice melts volcanic activity under the ice could pick up causing more ice to melt.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Hey Evangelical, you got one right!

And you'll be happy to know our new puppy is an aussie!

No, he didn't. The first point I mentioned was the increase in CO2 levels to over 400ppm, the first time we have been above 300 ppm in the last 400,000 years. That is clearly the result of the industrial revolution and it is the inferred cause of climate change.

All of the "symptoms" confirm the diagnosis. The cause is the burning fossil fuel, the burning of the rain forest, and the huge herds of cows and pigs.

I saw Al Gore's sequel and thought it was very interesting, though certainly not going to appeal to the masses. He begins with various senators and congressmen ridiculing the first movie and talking about the exaggeration and hyperbole. They were especially outraged at a projection that he made in the movie that with sea level rise the World Trade Center would be flooded. Then after letting us hear their ridicule he then cuts to news footage of the World Trade Center being flooded during hurricane Sandy.

After that he cuts to a Senate hearing where one Senator was literally spitting angry at him, asking him questions, but as he would answer just cutting him off and being a jerk. Eventually the chairman had to step in and tell them that they cannot ask a question unless they will give the witness a minute to answer.

He then cuts to a visit he took to Greenland. He goes on the ice and meets with the scientists on the ice who have been there since 2001. That is a very big contrast. On the one hand you have those screaming every insult and ridicule they can without the slightest evidence, never visiting the scientists, never wanting to hear from them.

Perhaps the most striking visual to me, which most viewers would miss, was the ladder he had to climb to get into the camp on Greenland. It isn't clear why they would build this camp ten feet in the air and then use an aluminum ladder to get up into it. But later you see a picture of the camp the year before. It was built on the ice. However, they put in posts deep into the ice to prevent the camp from falling into a crevasse, etc. The reason you have to climb up 10 feet is because that is how far the ice has melted in the last year.

However, the striking picture to most people is that of fish swimming across the roads in Miami Florida. Apparently this is a common occurrence that happens during high tide.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I saw Al Gore's sequel and thought it was very interesting, though certainly not going to appeal to the masses. He begins with various senators and congressmen ridiculing the first movie and talking about the exaggeration and hyperbole. They were especially outraged at a projection that he made in the movie that with sea level rise the World Trade Center would be flooded. Then after letting us hear their ridicule he then cuts to news footage of the World Trade Center being flooded during hurricane Sandy.

Climate Expert James Hansen:
New York Will Have Vanished Underwater by Midnight!

[Evangelical]

Researchers have found that climate change models have poor long term forecast accuracy. They also do no better than random walk. See here..

http://www.thegwpf.com/ross-mckitric...-reality-test/

It has been shown that physics and climatology adds little. Government policy on climate change is based on models that are outperformed by random walk.

This means that the optimum way to address climate change is to toss a coin and go with the result rather than take some policy based on fitting models to data which gives a result worse than 50%

ZNP seems a true believer in the power of science to predict the future just as economists are believers in the ability to forecast markets. Just as we can't accurately forecast markets we cannot accuratey forecast climate.

Just as investors lose thousands listening to the experts who claim they can predict the future by drawing a trend ...those who claim they can forecast climate are selling a lie.
It is the human way to see patterns in data which arent really there. It fools people in finance and fools people in science too. Most of all it fools the general public.

The optimum way to address climate change is not to look at the weather going up because of some ficticious trend line in the data over a random walk and then panic and implement costly policies that destroy industries. That gives a result less than 50 percent success.

Scientists don't like simple random models because their careers are built on their knowledge being valued. A model without physics puts many of them out of a job with no papers to publish. They need to be seen as valued by governments. No scientist is going to tell a government that they only need to toss a coin.

ZNPs detailed and thorough post of all the factors remind me of a financial advisor explaining all the reasons why the company stock price went up or down. But they are no better at predicting it than chance.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Researchers have found that climate change models have poor long term forecast accuracy. They also do no better than random walk. See here..

http://www.thegwpf.com/ross-mckitric...-reality-test/

It has been shown that physics and climatology adds little. Government policy on climate change is based on models that are outperformed by random walk.

This means that the optimum way to address climate change is to toss a coin and go with the result rather than take some policy based on fitting models to data which gives a result worse than 50%

ZNP seems a true believer in the power of science to predict the future just as economists are believers in the ability to forecast markets. Just as we can't accurately forecast markets we cannot accuratey forecast climate.

Just as investors lose thousands listening to the experts who claim they can predict the future by drawing a trend ...those who claim they can forecast climate are selling a lie.
It is the human way to see patterns in data which arent really there. It fools people in finance and fools people in science too. Most of all it fools the general public.

The optimum way to address climate change is not to look at the weather going up because of some ficticious trend line in the data over a random walk and then panic and implement costly policies that destroy industries. That gives a result less than 50 percent success.

Scientists don't like simple random models because their careers are built on their knowledge being valued. A model without physics puts many of them out of a job with no papers to publish. They need to be seen as valued by governments. No scientist is going to tell a government that they only need to toss a coin.

ZNPs detailed and thorough post of all the factors remind me of a financial advisor explaining all the reasons why the company stock price went up or down. But they are no better at predicting it than chance.

Great quote! First you choose an op ed, great example of the total lack of any scientific integrity on the climate change deniers. Second, the argument in the op ed is not that climate change models are doing a poor job of predicting the future but rather when you look at specific regions and ask climatologists questions outside of their expertise like "spread of invasive species".

Evangelical, great example of the total lack of integrity concerning those that deny the science.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Climate Expert James Hansen:
New York Will Have Vanished Underwater by Midnight!

Great example of fake news. James Hansen has published a lot of information, research, and op ed pieces concerning climate change. You could have quoted anything that he published, I assume this attack piece couldn't find a single thing, therefore they had to manufacture this fake news based on total hearsay. Good job! Now I understand what you mean by fake news.

This is what James Hansen is actually quoted as saying in a paper he published:

Without a sharp reduction in greenhouse gas emissions, the global sea level is likely to increase “several meters over a timescale of 50 to 150 years”, the paper states, warning that the Earth’s oceans were six to nine meters higher during the Eemian period – an interglacial phase about 120,000 years ago that was less than 1C warmer than it is today. (https://www.theguardian.com/science/...ange-scientist)

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Great example of fake news.

You gotta love fake news. I hear it all the time.

The New York Times said God was dead.

NY city liberals have been ingesting this stuff for years.

Now you join Al Gore's Climate Cult and you want the truth?

Happy New Year!

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

You gotta love fake news. I hear it all the time.

The New York Times said God was dead.

NY city liberals have been ingesting this stuff for years.

Now you join Al Gore's Climate Cult and you want the truth?

Happy New Year!

8 And the fourth poured out his bowl upon the sun; and it was given unto [i]it to scorch men with fire. 9 And men were scorched with great heat: and they blasphemed the name of God who hath the power over these plagues; and they repented not to give him glory.

10 And the fifth poured out his bowl upon the throne of the beast; and his kingdom was darkened; and they gnawed their tongues for pain, 11 and they blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores; and they repented not of their works.

Please explain what they were supposed to repent of? How are these judgments righteous response to the works that they did not repent of?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

8 And the fourth poured out his bowl upon the sun; and it was given unto [i]it to scorch men with fire. 9 And men were scorched with great heat: and they blasphemed the name of God who hath the power over these plagues; and they repented not to give him glory.

10 And the fifth poured out his bowl upon the throne of the beast; and his kingdom was darkened; and they gnawed their tongues for pain, 11 and they blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores; and they repented not of their works.

Please explain what they were supposed to repent of? How are these judgments righteous response to the works that they did not repent of?

They openly blasphemed the name of God.

By this time the age of grace has ended. Mankind has been warned to fear God. They refused to heed his warnings. Eventually they will learn that global warning has more to do with their sins than with their global footprint.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Eventually they will learn that global warning has more to do with their sins than with their global footprint.

Right O my brother. Like I've pointed out : It's the heat of the loins that's causing global warming.

[awareness]

It's about time. I've been sick of the fake news about fake news for a long time.

'Fake news' earns top vote on Michigan university's annual list of banned words for its 'misuse, overuse and uselessness'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...gets-vote.html

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Right O my brother. Like I've pointed out : It's the heat of the loins that's causing global warming.

Partly true, but really a heart problem. (Mark 7.20-23)

And in this case manifested in their blaspheming God.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

It's about time. I've been sick of the fake news about fake news for a long time.

'Fake news' earns top vote on Michigan university's annual list of banned words for its 'misuse, overuse and uselessness'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...gets-vote.html

Unfortunately, fake news will be the future of mankind. It's just too effective to let go of. Government agencies have been employing for decades, and with objectivity in the Press a thing of the past, we will see much more of it, and not less.

Look at the antifa/BLM movement begun under Obama. There are no stats that prove Police are targeting blacks, but who cares, enough people are convinced of it to take "action."

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

They openly blasphemed the name of God.

By this time the age of grace has ended. Mankind has been warned to fear God. They refused to heed his warnings. Eventually they will learn that global warning has more to do with their sins than with their global footprint.

God's judgements are righteous. The reference to them blaspheming God is "over the plagues". But the plagues were a judgement for something. It couldn't be the blaspheming, instead that is merely evidence that they refused to repent.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

God's judgements are righteous. The reference to them blaspheming God is "over the plagues". But the plagues were a judgement for something. It couldn't be the blaspheming, instead that is merely evidence that they refused to repent.

Not quite, it was a pattern: judgment-->blaspheming-->more judgment-->more blaspheming

But one thing is interesting. They stopped blaming Trump for the calamities. They realized global warming was a farce, and they recognized the God of heaven was behind the climate "change."

They no more were liberal agnostics and atheists. They had to make a choice about God. Unfortunately a bad one.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Not quite, it was a pattern: judgment-->blaspheming-->more judgment-->more blaspheming

But one thing is interesting. They stopped blaming Trump for the calamities. They realized global warming was a farce, and they recognized the God of heaven was behind the climate "change."

They no more were liberal agnostics and atheists. They had to make a choice about God. Unfortunately a bad one.

I am not a liberal agnostic nor an atheist. You accused me of being part of a climate cult and now you accuse me of being an agnostic or atheist.

This pattern you cite cannot begin with God's judgement. It would have to begin with God's word followed by man's disobedience which then brought God's judgement. Blaspheming is evidence that they refuse to repent even though they were reaping what they sowed.

The judgement is on the Sun allowing it to scorch man (Ozone hole) with great heat (climate change). Why? What actions by man prompted this response by God?

Blasphemy refers to a lack of respect, reverence for God. It is the act of insulting or showing contempt for God. Trump's comment asking for more of that "good ole global warming" is blasphemy.

So we have God's word, Man's disobedience, followed by God's judgement on the Sun (Climate change as evidenced by Puerto Rico, Houston, and California) followed by Man's blasphemy (Trump's comment) which will be followed by more judgement.

So then why not fill in the first two -- what was God's word and what was Man's disobedience?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I am not a liberal agnostic nor an atheist. You accused me of being part of a climate cult and now you accuse me of being an agnostic or atheist.

That's not true.

I thought we were talking about those who blasphemed God.

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Blasphemy refers to a lack of respect, reverence for God. It is the act of insulting or showing contempt for God. Trump's comment asking for more of that "good ole global warming" is blasphemy.

Now you're really out there.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

That's not true.

I thought we were talking about those who blasphemed God.



Now you're really out there.

If God is not responsible for Climate change then who is?

Clearly Trump's comment was sarcastic and disrespectful. Blasphemy.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Unfortunately, fake news will be the future of mankind. It's just too effective to let go of. Government agencies have been employing for decades, and with objectivity in the Press a thing of the past, we will see much more of it, and not less.

Look at the antifa/BLM movement begun under Obama. There are no stats that prove Police are targeting blacks, but who cares, enough people are convinced of it to take "action."

If we have fake news today then the news has been fake since we started printing. And there was plenty of fake news and info before, during, and after Jesus. Humankind, then, has always had fake news. It's the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow.

Trump has been using it to discredit all those that are critical of him. That's why I'm tired of hearing it. That's fake news too.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

If God is not responsible for Climate change then who is?

Clearly Trump's comment was sarcastic and disrespectful. Blasphemy.

Trump's comments were only "sarcastic and disrespectful" to those in Al Gore's Climate Cult who hate him.

But "Blasphemy?" Little harsh don't you think? Maybe this cold weather is getting to you. Perhaps you should take a break, and enjoy your vacation. If not, awareness will lower the boom on you for being a rabid "fundamentalist" who runs around yelling "blasphemer."

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

If we have fake news today then the news has been fake since we started printing. And there was plenty of fake news and info before, during, and after Jesus. Humankind, then, has always had fake news. It's the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow.

Trump has been using it to discredit all those that are critical of him. That's why I'm tired of hearing it. That's fake news too.

Would you Tweet something to the Press if they all condemned you on national news for drinking too much green tea?

Now you understand?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Trump's comments were only "sarcastic and disrespectful" to those in Al Gore's Climate Cult who hate him.

In the 1970s I was at Rice University, we had a professor who was going to Antarctica every summer to take readings. There were scientists examining the theory underpinning climate change. These people did not know Al Gore or Donald Trump. They did know the theory that the industrial revolution was burning fossil fuel and changing the atmosphere in the process.

Originally Posted by Ohio

But "Blasphemy?" Little harsh don't you think? Maybe this cold weather is getting to you. Perhaps you should take a break, and enjoy your vacation. If not, awareness will lower the boom on you for being a rabid "fundamentalist" who runs around yelling "blasphemer."

If you deny the scientists calling them a "cult", "atheists" and "agnostics" then you are making this all about God. You started down this path. If anyone is too harsh it is you in your denial of any and all who would raise an alarm.

[ZNPaaneah]

To summarize:

Revelation clearly describes a judgement of God on the Sun. He pours out a bowl on the Sun and as a result it can burn men with fire and great heat.

My interpretation is that there is a definite order --

1. God speaks a word

2. Man disobeys that word

3. God judges Man

4. Man either repents as King David did, or he blasphemes as those in Revelation do.

Ohio, Awareness and I all agree that God judges the sun. The issue is in points 1 and 2.

I argue that God spoke a word to us to "tend the garden" and to not "partake of the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil". We disobeyed. That sin resulted in God's judgement.

If the past is any measure I would guess that Awareness sees this judgement by God as some kind of ancient mythology of a vengeful God.

Ohio has yet to tell us what the word was that God spoke that man subsequently disobeyed resulting in this judgement.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Ohio, Awareness and I all agree that God judges the sun. The issue is in points 1 and 2.

Ohio has yet to tell us what the word was that God spoke that man subsequently disobeyed resulting in this judgement.

Liberals are convinced that God is judging us for voting for Trump.

He made the skies BLUE to inform us of His command, but we disobeyed.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Liberals are convinced that God is judging us for voting for Trump.

He made the skies BLUE to inform us of His command, but we disobeyed.

I live in NYC, I have many relatives in Mass, Boston, etc. Doctors, lawyers, liberal elites. Never once have I heard anyone say that Climate change is judgement for the US voting for Donald Trump.

I have heard outrage, revulsion, and general repugnance at some of his more offensive quotes, but in all of that I still have not heard reference to "God's judgement" associated with the comments aimed at Trump by the Liberal Elites I come in contact with.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I live in NYC, I have many relatives in Mass, Boston, etc. Doctors, lawyers, liberal elites. Never once have I heard anyone say that Climate change is judgement for the US voting for Donald Trump.

Oh really? You never heard that Hurricane Harvey which devastated Houston last year was God's judgment upon them for voting for Trump? Seriously?

Perhaps your family never told you this, but I heard it and read it.

But still ... do you really believe your recent comment about God's judgment of the earth in Revelations was due to Adam and Eve eating the TotKoGaE and not "tending the garden" properly?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Oh really? You never heard that Hurricane Harvey which devastated Houston last year was God's judgment upon them for voting for Trump? Seriously?

Perhaps your family never told you this, but I heard it and read it.

But still ... do you really believe your recent comment about God's judgment of the earth in Revelations was due to Adam and Eve eating the TotKoGaE and not "tending the garden" properly?

I don't know what you are listening to. I heard Christian fundamentalists say that hurricane Katrina was God's judgement on New Orleans. Since Houston is generally fundamentalist (baptist) and New Orleans is Catholic I heard a "tit for tat" comments when Houston flooded. You reap what you sow. You want to say that the sinful Catholics were judged by Katrina you can expect them to say that the sinful Baptists were judged by Harvey.

But I didn't say I never heard that. I said I never heard the "liberal elites" in the North East say this. I will repeat, I know many doctors, lawyers in NYC, Boston, etc. None of them ever talk about this being God's judgement.

[awareness]

The worm turns ... even Bannon thinks Trump is a child :

Bannon Reportedly Mulling 2020 POTUS Run, Called Trump ‘An 11-Year-Old Child’
https://www.mediaite.com/online/bann...ear-old-child/

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I don't know what you are listening to. I heard Christian fundamentalists say that hurricane Katrina was God's judgement on New Orleans. Since Houston is generally fundamentalist (baptist) and New Orleans is Catholic I heard a "tit for tat" comments when Houston flooded. You reap what you sow. You want to say that the sinful Catholics were judged by Katrina you can expect them to say that the sinful Baptists were judged by Harvey.

But I didn't say I never heard that. I said I never heard the "liberal elites" in the North East say this. I will repeat, I know many doctors, lawyers in NYC, Boston, etc. None of them ever talk about this being God's judgement.

I have heard many times that the storms, and even 9/11, are/was God's judgement on America for abortion and homosexuality.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

I have heard many times that the storms, and even 9/11, are/was God's judgement on America for abortion and homosexuality.

But never did you hear that from "Liberal elites".

[ZNPaaneah]

If you compare Trump with Al Gore Trump clearly comes out superior. Gore only claimed to have invented the internet. Trump claimed to have upgraded our nuclear arsenal, made flying safe, and being the first president to not be outplayed by N. Korea. And look at the forces arrayed against him! Gore merely had a trivial complaint about who won Florida, who cares, so he won Florida, is that such a big deal? But Trump is dealing with the "deep state", it is so bad that we have lots and lots of dead people voting! He has had to deal with "fake news", zombies, the deep state, war heroes who aren't really heroes, and the terrible rudeness of those who do not express his greatness. By comparison what has Gore ever had to deal with? A presidential election in which only 9 votes counted. Big deal.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

If you compare Trump with Al Gore Trump clearly comes out superior. Gore only claimed to have invented the internet. Trump claimed to have upgraded our nuclear arsenal, made flying safe, and being the first president to not be outplayed by N. Korea. And look at the forces arrayed against him! Gore merely had a trivial complaint about who won Florida, who cares, so he won Florida, is that such a big deal? But Trump is dealing with the "deep state", it is so bad that we have lots and lots of dead people voting! He has had to deal with "fake news", zombies, the deep state, war heroes who aren't really heroes, and the terrible rudeness of those who do not express his greatness. By comparison what has Gore ever had to deal with? A presidential election in which only 9 votes counted. Big deal.

And Trump, who always has to be bigger, has a bigger button than Kim Jong Un.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

And Trump, who always has to be bigger, has a bigger button than Kim Jong Un.

You realize of course what all this is about. Kim Jong Un is holding the world for ransom for 1 Million dollars!

[awareness]

The worm continues to turn :

Bannon, speaking to author Michael Wolff, warned that the investigation into alleged collusion with the Kremlin will focus on money laundering and predicted: “They’re going to crack Don Junior like an egg on national TV.”
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...-michael-wolff

[zeek]

Originally Posted by awareness

The worm continues to turn :

Bannon, speaking to author Michael Wolff, warned that the investigation into alleged collusion with the Kremlin will focus on money laundering and predicted: “They’re going to crack Don Junior like an egg on national TV.”
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...-michael-wolff

Bannon called Don Junior's meeting with the Russians "treasonous". Trump says Bannon has "lost his mind." Tune in to Fox and Friends tomorrow. They'll tell you who to hate and how much.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

Bannon called Don Junior's meeting with the Russians "treasonous". Trump says Bannon has "lost his mind." Tune in to Fox and Friends tomorrow. They'll tell you who to hate and how much.

According to Bannon Trump insulted and ridiculed all of his advisors. Witness Lee and Titus Chu would have liked Trump.

[awareness]

The worm continues to turn. Trump says, shut the hell up :

Trump attorney sends Bannon cease and desist letter over 'disparaging' comments
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump...ry?id=52128555

[awareness]

That worm sure is busy. This is the man that over 80% of evangelicals put into office:

'One of the best things in life is bedding your friends' wives': How Trump seduced women by goading their husbands to cheat while he made them listen over speakerphone
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...nds-cheat.html

[zeek]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzYqimDCyjs

Rabbi Yaakov Shapiro reacts to Jerusalem being declared the capital of Israel, and explains that the Jewish people relate to Jerusalem as a holy city, not as a political capital city. Jerusalem as the capital of the "Jews" is a Zionist fiction, and conflicts directly with the teachings of Judaism.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzYqimDCyjs

Rabbi Yaakov Shapiro reacts to Jerusalem being declared the capital of Israel, and explains that the Jewish people relate to Jerusalem as a holy city, not as a political capital city. Jerusalem as the capital of the "Jews" is a Zionist fiction, and conflicts directly with the teachings of Judaism.

Seriously? Yes, Judaism taught there were 12 tribes. Historically Israel was divided into two kingdoms. But Jerusalem was always the capital of the kingdom of David and Solomon. Jerusalem was designated by God as the only place where they could build the temple. When Israel was attacked by various empires Jerusalem was the last stronghold.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

That worm sure is busy. This is the man that over 80% of evangelicals put into office:

'One of the best things in life is bedding your friends' wives': How Trump seduced women by goading their husbands to cheat while he made them listen over speakerphone
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...nds-cheat.html

OK, OK, PL would also have liked Trump.

[ZNPaaneah]

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/an...rticle/2644940

Trump is not Dumb!

[Ohio]

Bad day for the Clinton crime family. Her guest house of Secret Service help was burning, and the investigation into pay-to-play Uranium One is reopened.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Bad day for the Clinton crime family. Her guest house of Secret Service help was burning, and the investigation into pay-to-play Uranium One is reopened.

Maybe she needed to burn those 33,000 emails.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Maybe she needed to burn those 33,000 emails.

The reason she got a server in her bathroom was to prevent a permanent record of them. Lock her up!

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Maybe she needed to burn those 33,000 emails.

Hey, if the Secret Service is helping her burn emails that is evidence of the "deep State" that Trump referred to!

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Hey, if the Secret Service is helping her burn emails that is evidence of the "deep State" that Trump referred to!

Looks like she didn't pay the premiums on her "insurance policy put together in Andy's office."

[zeek]

Trump is saying all kinds of nasty things about Bannon. Trump's a bad breaker-upper.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seMsq2ri6E8

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The reason she got a server in her bathroom was to prevent a permanent record of them. Lock her up!

Lock 'em all up. They're all crooks.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Trump is saying all kinds of nasty things about Bannon. Trump's a bad breaker-upper.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seMsq2ri6E8

It makes no sense that the early Trump administration under Priebus would allow this guy Wolff unlimited access. Then, as these guys got fired for leaking to the Press, they would bad-mouth Trump on their way out the door.

Steve Bannon looks like a disheveled drunk, and Wolff has a history is distorting accounts. Since Bannon did not deny what was said right away, then Trump assumed the worst, and turned on him. These high-power guys have monster egos and a super elevated sense of importance. Bannon said for months there was no Russian collusion, and then accuses all the Trump's of treason???

Sounds like Muller wants to talk to Bannon now.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

It makes no sense that the early Trump administration under Priebus would allow this guy Wolff unlimited access. Then, as these guys got fired for leaking to the Press, they would bad-mouth Trump on their way out the door.

Steve Bannon looks like a disheveled drunk, and Wolff has a history is distorting accounts. Since Bannon did not deny what was said right away, then Trump assumed the worst, and turned on him. These high-power guys have monster egos and a super elevated sense of importance. Bannon said for months there was no Russian collusion, and then accuses all the Trump's of treason???

Sounds like Muller wants to talk to Bannon now.

David Brooks opined that Steve Bannon's populism will outlast Donald Trump's narcissism

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

Trump is saying all kinds of nasty things about Bannon. Trump's a bad breaker-upper.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seMsq2ri6E8

But doesn't his response confirm what is said in the book?

Bannon was trying to help him, they are laying the groundwork for an insanity plea.

Also how can you claim collusion if Trump didn't want to be elected. Why is Trump bad mouthing this, it is his get out of jail card.

[Ohio]

There are now four open investigations into Hillary, and you guys are wasting all your time on the tabloids.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

There are now four open investigations into Hillary, and you guys are wasting all your time on the tabloids.

I hate to break it to you O but Hilary is not president. So apart from distracting the Trump cult from Trump's train wreck it doesn't mean much to the fate of the nation.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

I hate to break it to you O but Hilary is not president. So apart from distracting the Trump cult from Trump's train wreck it doesn't mean much to the fate of the nation.

If the leaders of the coup d'etat get exposed and "die" themselves, then the coup has failed, has it not?

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

But doesn't his response confirm what is said in the book? Yes

Bannon was trying to help him, they are laying the groundwork for an insanity plea. That's far fetched and literally silly.

Also how can you claim collusion if Trump didn't want to be elected? Why is Trump bad mouthing this, it is his get out of jail card?

You've identified an apparent logical contradiction there. You may have to read the book to see if Wolff answers your question.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

If the leaders of the coup d'etat get exposed and "die" themselves, then the coup has failed, has it not?

I remember watching Hilary Clinton on the Today Show claiming that there was a "vast right wing conspiracy" against her husband. The political climate is more polarized now than it was then. As partisan mistrust rises so do conspiracy theories. On both sides.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

I remember watching Hilary Clinton on the Today Show claiming that there was a "vast right wing conspiracy" against her husband. The political climate is more polarized now than it was then. As partisan mistrust rises so do conspiracy theories. On both sides.

For sure.

Getting past emails and a host of more minor things, selling 20% of our Uranium reserves to our worst enemy, who has been trying to corner the market, and then staging that Russian Reset charade and mocking Mitt Romney, is troubling to me.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

For sure.

Getting past emails and a host of more minor things, selling 20% of our Uranium reserves to our worst enemy, who has been trying to corner the market, and then staging that Russian Reset charade and mocking Mitt Romney, is troubling to me.

I'm hoping that the Dems don't nominate Hillary Clinton again. I wan't to see the Dem Party reformed from the bottom up. But, if you think Putin's Russia is our #1 enemy, I would think you would also be troubled be the fact that Trump who says bad things about virtually everybody never has a bad thing about Putin.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

I'm hoping that the Dems don't nominate Hillary Clinton again. I wan't to see the Dem Party reformed from the bottom up. But, if you think Putin's Russia is our #1 enemy, I would think you would also be troubled be the fact that Trump who says bad things about virtually everybody never has a bad thing about Putin.

Trump is a counter-puncher. He waits until someone else starts the trash talk.

Putin seems to have more smarts that our media.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Trump is a counter-puncher. He waits until someone else starts the trash talk.

Putin seems to have more smarts that our media.

If interfering with the 2016 U.S. presidential election doesn't deserve a counter-punch, what does?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

If interfering with the 2016 U.S. presidential election doesn't deserve a counter-punch, what does?

Who interfered with election?

Your news is out of date.

They still have found no evidence of collusion. Keep digging though, I'm sure they will find lies, money laundering, etc. all of which occurred long before the actual election.

Here's the real election story: That British agent Steele was paid by Clinton to gather dirt on Trump.

Truth be told, Russians had next to no influence on election. It was the ***Insurance Policy*** developed by McCabe, Strzok, and many others to destroy Trump that is the real story.

But, I understand, watching all those liberal hate-Trump news outlets, you missed this side of the news, and I'm sure you view it all as Hilary's vast right-wong conspiracy.

Time will tell.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Who interfered with election?

Your news is out of date.

They still have found no evidence of collusion. Keep digging though, I'm sure they will find lies, money laundering, etc. all of which occurred long before the actual election.

Here's the real election story: That British agent Steele was paid by Clinton to gather dirt on Trump.

Truth be told, Russians had next to no influence on election. It was the ***Insurance Policy*** developed by McCabe, Strzok, and many others to destroy Trump that is the real story.

But, I understand, watching all those liberal hate-Trump news outlets, you missed this side of the news, and I'm sure you view it all as Hilary's vast right-wong conspiracy.

Time will tell.

Bro Ohio I'm impressed that you are so omniscient. You know what bro zeek reads, and you have more info than those with top security clearance.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Bro Ohio I'm impressed that you are so omniscient. You know what bro zeek reads, and you have more info than those with top security clearance.

Thank you!

Have you forgotten about all the leaks? Now we all know!

But seriously, Congress has been forcing the FBI and DOJ to release documents. More are coming soon.

If you want to know what is really going to happen this year, you need to watch Hannity.

But I understand that your Liberal News Nazis will not permit this !

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Thank you!

Have you forgotten about all the leaks? Now we all know!

But seriously, Congress has been forcing the FBI and DOJ to release documents. More are coming soon.

If you want to know what is really going to happen this year, you need to watch Hannity.

But I understand that your Liberal News Nazis will not permit this !

Maybe you're not so omniscient after all. Or you'd know my TV consists of a streaming device, that doesn't get Fox news. So I can't watch Hannity. Darn, you're not as omniscient as I thought.

Does Hannity have top security clearance? Does he have inside info on Mueller's investigation?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Maybe you're not so omniscient after all. Or you'd know my TV consists of a streaming device, that doesn't get Fox news. So I can't watch Hannity. Darn, you're not as omniscient as I thought.

Does Hannity have top security clearance? Does he have inside info on Mueller's investigation?

It's not like a nice guy like you (not to mention a world famous moderator on Alt-LCD) to tease me about being omniscient, and then mock me for not. I'll try not to mention your liberal news sources anymore. Mea culpa.

What's up? I hope you are staying warm these days.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

It's not like a nice guy like you (not to mention a world famous moderator on Alt-LCD) to tease me about being omniscient, and then mock me for not. I'll try not to mention your liberal news sources anymore. Mea culpa.

What's up? I hope you are staying warm these days.

Oh brother, you just don't seem to get that I'm a mugwump.

I don't hook my wagon to any party, or sports team for that matter.

I'm a misfit. Yes I'm keeping warm, and wish the same for you. I cut a finger off on Black Friday ... kinda knocked my wood chopping out. But loaned my log-splitter to my son's father-in-law and am getting wood from him. With the extreme cold I've really been burning thru it.

Thanks much bro, for putting concern for me over politics. I feel the same toward you, as you know.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Trump is a counter-puncher. He waits until someone else starts the trash talk.

You know his "two biggest assets are his mental stability" and "actually, he is really smart."

We can confirm this from this new book (Fire and Fury). He eats a lot of Mcdonalds, we might think that is stupid but "actually it is really smart" he does this so that they can't poison him. No doubt if he ate at home his wife (or one of the ex wives) would poison him. If he booked a table at a restaurant you know the waitresses, busboys and cooks would poison him. If he went to his "friend's" restaurant you know he would poison him since Trump probably slept with his wife. Also his ability to stay sane while all of these people are out there trying to poison him, not to mention all the dead people who voted for Clinton and the deep state that is trying to bring him down, is evidence of his mental stability.

In fact I will predict that they will make a movie about him and these two assets (mental stability and his smarts) will be front and center. I will also predict that all the people in the theater when they see it will have tears in their eyes. It could be from laughing so hard, or it could be sadness for what they lost (lets see how this whole N Korea things turns out).

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

You know his "two biggest assets are his mental stability" and "actually, he is really smart."

We can confirm this from this new book (Fire and Fury). He eats a lot of Mcdonalds, we might think that is stupid but "actually it is really smart" he does this so that they can't poison him. No doubt if he ate at home his wife (or one of the ex wives) would poison him. If he booked a table at a restaurant you know the waitresses, busboys and cooks would poison him. If he went to his "friend's" restaurant you know he would poison him since Trump probably slept with his wife. Also his ability to stay sane while all of these people are out there trying to poison him, not to mention all the dead people who voted for Clinton and the deep state that is trying to bring him down, is evidence of his mental stability.

In fact I will predict that they will make a movie about him and these two assets (mental stability and his smarts) will be front and center. I will also predict that all the people in the theater when they see it will have tears in their eyes. It could be from laughing so hard, or it could be sadness for what they lost (lets see how this whole N Korea things turns out).

I can't believe a "smart guy" like you would read or believe that book.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I can't believe a "smart guy" like you would read or believe that book.

You don't believe he is really smart and that mental stability is one of his biggest assets?

He reminds me of another really smart guy, Witness Lee. I remember Witness always telling us how smart he was, poor china man teaching all of these doctors of divinity, etc.

The best way to know he is really smart is that he told us he is.

I think I'll use this on my next job interview -- my two biggest assets are my mental stability and like I'm actually really smart. That should impress them!

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I can't believe a "smart guy" like you would read or believe that book.

If the book is bull****, how is it that it drove a wedge between Trump and Bannon? Must be some truth in there or Trump has no reason to be pissed at "Sloppy Steve".

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Who interfered with election?

Your news is out of date.

They still have found no evidence of collusion. Keep digging though, I'm sure they will find lies, money laundering, etc. all of which occurred long before the actual election.

Here's the real election story: That British agent Steele was paid by Clinton to gather dirt on Trump.

Truth be told, Russians had next to no influence on election. It was the ***Insurance Policy*** developed by McCabe, Strzok, and many others to destroy Trump that is the real story.

But, I understand, watching all those liberal hate-Trump news outlets, you missed this side of the news, and I'm sure you view it all as Hilary's vast right-wong conspiracy.

Time will tell.

"A January 2017 assessment by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence (ODNI) stated that Russian leadership preferred presidential candidate Donald Trump over Hillary Clinton, and that Russian president Vladimir Putin personally ordered an 'influence campaign' to harm Clinton's electoral chances and 'undermine public faith in the US democratic process.'

On October 7, 2016, the ODNI and the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) jointly stated that the U.S. Intelligence Community was confident that the Russian Government directed recent hacking of e-mails with the intention of interfering with the U.S. election process.

According to the ODNI′s January 6, 2017 report, the Russian military intelligence service (GRU) had hacked the servers of the Democratic National Committee (DNC) and the personal Google email account of Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta and forwarded their contents to WikiLeaks. "The forensic evidence linking the DNC breach to known Russian operations is very strong.

In January 2017, Director of National Intelligence James Clapper testified that Russia also interfered in the elections by disseminating fake news that was promoted on social media."

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

You know his "two biggest assets are his mental stability" and "actually, he is really smart."

We can confirm this from this new book (Fire and Fury). He eats a lot of Mcdonalds, we might think that is stupid but "actually it is really smart" he does this so that they can't poison him. No doubt if he ate at home his wife (or one of the ex wives) would poison him. If he booked a table at a restaurant you know the waitresses, busboys and cooks would poison him. If he went to his "friend's" restaurant you know he would poison him since Trump probably slept with his wife. Also his ability to stay sane while all of these people are out there trying to poison him, not to mention all the dead people who voted for Clinton and the deep state that is trying to bring him down, is evidence of his mental stability.

In fact I will predict that they will make a movie about him and these two assets (mental stability and his smarts) will be front and center. I will also predict that all the people in the theater when they see it will have tears in their eyes. It could be from laughing so hard, or it could be sadness for what they lost (lets see how this whole N Korea things turns out).

Stephen Hawking said smart people don't go around saying they are really smart.

If I say I'm really smart it means I'm not.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

"A January 2017 assessment by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence (ODNI) stated that Russian leadership preferred presidential candidate Donald Trump over Hillary Clinton, and that Russian president Vladimir Putin personally ordered an 'influence campaign' to harm Clinton's electoral chances and 'undermine public faith in the US democratic process.'

On October 7, 2016, the ODNI and the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) jointly stated that the U.S. Intelligence Community was confident that the Russian Government directed recent hacking of e-mails with the intention of interfering with the U.S. election process.

According to the ODNI′s January 6, 2017 report, the Russian military intelligence service (GRU) had hacked the servers of the Democratic National Committee (DNC) and the personal Google email account of Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta and forwarded their contents to WikiLeaks. "The forensic evidence linking the DNC breach to known Russian operations is very strong.

In January 2017, Director of National Intelligence James Clapper testified that Russia also interfered in the elections by disseminating fake news that was promoted on social media."

James Clapper has no credibility whatsoever!

Lock Him Up? Lawmakers Renew Calls for James Clapper Perjury Charges

Rand Paul: Clapper lied to Congress

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Stephen Hawking said smart people don't go around saying they are really smart.

If I say I'm really smart it means I'm not.

I don't know about you, but I agree with Trump about his two main assets.

The main reasons I did not vote for him was because of his mental stability and his "smarts".

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

"A January 2017 assessment by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence (ODNI) stated that Russian leadership preferred presidential candidate Donald Trump over Hillary Clinton, and that Russian president Vladimir Putin personally ordered an 'influence campaign' to harm Clinton's electoral chances and 'undermine public faith in the US democratic process.'

On October 7, 2016, the ODNI and the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) jointly stated that the U.S. Intelligence Community was confident that the Russian Government directed recent hacking of e-mails with the intention of interfering with the U.S. election process.

According to the ODNI′s January 6, 2017 report, the Russian military intelligence service (GRU) had hacked the servers of the Democratic National Committee (DNC) and the personal Google email account of Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta and forwarded their contents to WikiLeaks. "The forensic evidence linking the DNC breach to known Russian operations is very strong.

In January 2017, Director of National Intelligence James Clapper testified that Russia also interfered in the elections by disseminating fake news that was promoted on social media."

Again, none of this is evidence that Trump or his campaign colluded with them.

This is an example of the Pot calling the kettle black. The US interferes in elections all over the world all the time.

It is also hypocritical. When SCOTUS decided that corporations could spend unlimited dollars on elections they opened the door for all kinds of influence. Now all of a sudden they are offended that the Russians are influencing elections? As bad as this is, and I agree it is reprehensible, how is Russian influence any worse than a corporation that wants a payback (perhaps a cut in corporate taxes) or maybe shutting down the EPA or maybe telling the CDC what they can and cannot say?

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

James Clapper has no credibility whatsoever!

Lock Him Up? Lawmakers Renew Calls for James Clapper Perjury Charges

Rand Paul: Clapper lied to Congress

Rand Paul and others made noise but never followed through with an investigation and indictment. It was just partisan politics as usual in a polarized congress.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Rand Paul and others made noise but never followed through with an investigation and indictment. It was just partisan politics as usual in a polarized congress.

But media attacks and books on Trump are NOT partisan politics as usual in a polarized congress. I completely understand.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Again, none of this is evidence that Trump or his campaign colluded with them.

This is an example of the Pot calling the kettle black. The US interferes in elections all over the world all the time.

Exactly!

Why is it the Obama administration used $300K State Dept funds to topple the Netanyahu administration, and no one called for a Special Prosecutor?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I don't know about you, but I agree with Trump about his two main assets.

The main reasons I did not vote for him was because of his mental stability and his "smarts".

When did the almighty Press ever denigrate Obama's intelligence for snafu's and reading teleprompters?

Remember those free lance interviews and speeches where Obama screwed up big time?

• He referred to His Muslim faith, and then was (politically-) corrected to say his "Christian faith."
• He referred to his wife as "Michael" sending cyberspace into transgender heaven

Who makes mistakes like that? They were forced to shut him down after that.

No more ad libs for you Barry!

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

When did the almighty Press ever denigrate Obama's intelligence for snafu's and reading teleprompters?

Remember those free lance interviews and speeches where Obama screwed up big time?

• He referred to His Muslim faith, and then was (politically-) corrected to say his "Christian faith."
• He referred to his wife as "Michael" sending cyberspace into transgender heaven

Who makes mistakes like that? They were forced to shut him down after that.

No more ad libs for you Barry!

I think, and might be wrong, I get why you go after Obama, cuz he was president Blackenstein. But did Obama go around saying his assets were mental stability and being a smart genius?

Like Hawking said, smart people don't go around saying they are smart.

And Obama can't press the button ... he's not president. But I'd take Obama over Trump, any day ... and I didn't vote for him.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

I think, and might be wrong, I get why you go after Obama, cuz he was president Blackenstein. But did Obama go around saying his assets were mental stability and being a smart genius?

Like Hawking said, smart people don't go around saying they are smart.

And Obama can't press the button ... he's not president. But I'd take Obama over Trump, any day ... and I didn't vote for him.

What I find funny is that he says he is a political genius for his victory, which may be a valid point. (Two years ago someone asks you what Trump would need to win the election most would say "a political genius"). But then he says "a mentally stable genius". These two rarely if every take place. It is much more like a beautiful mind. Perhaps the movie about Trump's presidency will be a sequel to "A beautiful mind".

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

I think, and might be wrong, I get why you go after Obama, cuz he was president Blackenstein. But did Obama go around saying his assets were mental stability and being a smart genius?

Like Hawking* said, smart people don't go around saying they are smart.

And Obama can't press the button ... he's not president. But I'd take Obama over Trump, any day ... and I didn't vote for him.

Absolutely not!

Let me repeat, Absolutely not! I don't care what color he is.**

When Obama first began to run for Prez, I found out that his voting record in the Senate was THE MOST LIBERAL of all. So our relationship got off to a bad start, and only went downhill from there.

And this is the issue that irks me with liberal identity politics -- if I disagree with a politician, it must be some kind of racism, or xenophobia, or misogyny, etc. on my part. It's never their political platform or experience, rather it must be who they are by birth that I have problems with. Why is it that liberals just refuse to admit this.

* Sorry, bro, but Stephen Hawking doesn't speak for me.
** Neither did I have issues with Hilary because she was a woman.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

What I find funny is that he says he is a political genius for his victory, which may be a valid point. (Two years ago someone asks you what Trump would need to win the election most would say "a political genius"). But then he says "a mentally stable genius". These two rarely if every take place. It is much more like a beautiful mind. Perhaps the movie about Trump's presidency will be a sequel to "A beautiful mind".

But when did the media spend 24/7/52 assaulting John Nash?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

But when did the media spend 24/7/52 assaulting John Nash?

Oh Trump deliberately provokes it. He loves all the media attention. He feeds off it. He loves that we're talking about him here. And loves that you trash Obama ... as he can't trash him enough on his own ... tho he constantly tries. Trump would say, thanks bro Ohio ... you are the greatest ever on all the internet.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

But media attacks and books on Trump are NOT partisan politics as usual in a polarized congress. I completely understand.

I haven't found any implausible allegation in the book yet based on the way Trump presents himself in public. That includes some some possibly impeachable offenses and 25th amendment concerns. All the more probable cause warranting the Mueller investigation.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Again, none of this is evidence that Trump or his campaign colluded with them.

This is an example of the Pot calling the kettle black. The US interferes in elections all over the world all the time.

It is also hypocritical. When SCOTUS decided that corporations could spend unlimited dollars on elections they opened the door for all kinds of influence. Now all of a sudden they are offended that the Russians are influencing elections? As bad as this is, and I agree it is reprehensible, how is Russian influence any worse than a corporation that wants a payback (perhaps a cut in corporate taxes) or maybe shutting down the EPA or maybe telling the CDC what they can and cannot say?

Re- read the post. It's not about Trump colluding. You don't think Russia interfering with our elections is a problem. Duly noted. I disagree... Strongly.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Oh Trump deliberately provokes it. He loves all the media attention. He feeds off it. He loves that we're talking about him here. And loves that you trash Obama ... as he can't trash him enough on his own ... tho he constantly tries. Trump would say, takes bro Ohio ... you are the greatest ever on all the internet.

Is this how you excuse the Media's Trump Derangement Syndrome?

Even Jimmy Carter, without a conservative bone in his body, acknowledged that he never saw a President get treated worse than Trump.

Actually, I have never liked mainstream media. I seem to like everyone they hate. I figure the opposite of everything they say is prolly right!

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

I haven't found any implausible allegation in the book yet based on the way Trump presents himself in public. That includes some some possibly impeachable offenses and 25th amendment concerns. All the more probable cause warranting the Mueller investigation.

You felt the same way about Dubya, and have said so on a number of occasions, yet he never tweeted or counter-punched.

No, yours is simply hatred of conservatism and traditional values. Period.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Re read the post. It's not about Trump colluding. You don't think Russia interfering with our elections is a problem. Duly noted. I disagree... Strongly.

Excuse me, sir.

And the Trump Dossier, paid for by Hilary, written by a British agent, with information from Russian operatives, was NOT interfering with our elections???

No, my friend, the only "problem" in your mind was the outcome of the election.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

You felt the same way about Dubya, and have said so on a number of occasions, yet he never tweeted or counter-punched.

No, yours is simply hatred of conservatism and traditional values. Period.

Nonsense. I evaluate each on their own merits. I am virtually at one with "Never Trump" conservatives.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Excuse me, sir.

And the Trump Dossier, paid for by Hilary, written by a British agent, with information from Russian operatives, was NOT interfering with our elections???

No, my friend, the only "problem" in your mind was the outcome of the election.

Excuse me. I was replying to ZNP about my Russian interference post which said nothing about Trump collusion. That stemmed from my dialogue with you in which I questioned why Trump has never counterpunched Putin. Would the dossier in question count as Russian interference if written by a British agent? I don't think so.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

Re- read the post. It's not about Trump colluding. You don't think Russia interfering with our elections is a problem. Duly noted. I disagree... Strongly.

I did not say it wasn't a problem, read the post -- "as bad as this is". My point how is this any different from many of the things SCOTUS says is legal? Exxon can legally influence the elections with as much money as they wish. They can go on Facebook, etc. What is the difference between Walmart influencing the election with unlimited funds or China? I think it is FUBAR.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Would the dossier in question count as Russian interference if written by a British agent? I don't think so.

I don't think so. That Dossier was developed by Fusion GPS, where Nellie Ohr worked. Her husband Bruce Ohr was #4 ranked official at the Department of Justice, behind Director Lynch, who met with Bill Clinton while Hilary was under investigation. Hilary's DNC (they were one business entity by then) paid for the Dossier. Comey's FBI used that Dossier, without fact checking a think, and then took it to the FISA court to use for wire-tapping the entire Trump Team. Obama's UN ambassador Samantha Power, without a single legitimate reason, then outed these officials, while Lynch changed all the rules on who can view outed American conversations.

BTW, I am just getting started. Just the tip of the iceberg.

By definition, this is way beyond mere election collusion. There are a whole host of other crimes against America and our democratic process. These are the facts. Lock 'em up.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I did not say it wasn't a problem, read the post -- "as bad as this is". My point how is this any different from many of the things SCOTUS says is legal? Exxon can legally influence the elections with as much money as they wish. They can go on Facebook, etc. What is the difference between Walmart influencing the election with unlimited funds or China? I think it is FUBAR.

Many would like to cut Trump's Twitter feed, so that we all get out news from Fake news CNN and Facebook.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I don't think so. That Dossier was developed by Fusion GPS, where Nellie Ohr worked. Her husband Bruce Ohr was #4 ranked official at the Department of Justice, behind Director Lynch, who met with Bill Clinton while Hilary was under investigation. Hilary's DNC (they were one business entity by then) paid for the Dossier. Comey's FBI used that Dossier, without fact checking a think, and then took it to the FISA court to use for wire-tapping the entire Trump Team. Obama's UN ambassador Samantha Power, without a single legitimate reason, then outed these officials, while Lynch changed all the rules on who can view outed American conversations.

BTW, I am just getting started. Just the tip of the iceberg.

By definition, this is way beyond mere election collusion. There are a whole host of other crimes against America and our democratic process. These are the facts. Lock 'em up.

Lock em up? In America we have a Constitution that requires due process and stuff before people are locked up. So if these are facts as you say, the accusers should have no problem prosecuting the perpetrators and convicting them of whatever crimes the're guilty of. Meanwhile, what you have there are allegations of the Fox News meme machine not facts.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Many would like to cut Trump's Twitter feed, so that we all get out news from Fake news CNN and Facebook.

Keep Trump's Twitter feed going. That way the world can keep daily almost hourly tabs on the declining mental status of a deranged megalomaniac. Hopefully someone in Washington has the wisdom, ability and access to the levers of power necessary to crisis manage the Trump train-wreck to avert disaster before the train hits the wall.

[awareness]

Trump administration will 'increase risk of nuclear war' with new plans to develop smaller warheads that are less destructive and a loosening of 'first-use' constraints, experts warn
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...clear-war.html

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Keep Trump's Twitter feed going. That way the world can keep daily almost hourly tabs on the declining mental status of a deranged megalomaniac. Hopefully someone in Washington has the wisdom, ability and access to the levers of power necessary to crisis manage the Trump train-wreck to avert disaster before the train hits the wall.

The liberal Press are just repeating history here. Have you read of the Goldwater Rule? Every one of these pathetic mental health "professionals" should lose their license and be sued for libel/slander.

Yesterday I watched two interesting news reports. In one day, two of Trump's recent outspoken critics were shamed in one day. Bannon was fired from Breitbart -- completely disgraced for his vindictive smears in some tabloid NYT "bestseller."

Trump's impressive meeting with Congressional leaders over immigration/DACA was open to the Press. He let the world see the "Art of the Deal" in progress. If he can oversee comprehensive immigration reform, Trump will be tauted as a Presidential genius. Blitzer on CNN could not contain his shock of what happened. The other Wolff, the tell-all liar, was exposed as a fraud.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The liberal Press are just repeating history here. Have you read of the Goldwater Rule? Every one of these pathetic mental health "professionals" should lose their license and be sued for libel/slander.

Every one?

Originally Posted by Ohio

Yesterday I watched two interesting news reports. In one day, two of Trump's recent outspoken critics were shamed in one day. Bannon was fired from Breitbart -- completely disgraced for his vindictive smears in some tabloid NYT "bestseller."

Trump's impressive meeting with Congressional leaders over immigration/DACA was open to the Press. He let the world see the "Art of the Deal" in progress. If he can oversee comprehensive immigration reform, Trump will be tauted as a Presidential genius. Blitzer on CNN could not contain his shock of what happened. The other Wolff, the tell-all liar, was exposed as a fraud.

I saw a very interesting interview with one of these authors who wrote a book saying that the best leaders are mentally ill and he explained why. Churchill suffered from depression, but those with this affliction are often extremely realistic. He was also able to see the threat of Hitler before others. Lincoln also suffered from mental illness.

He identified several ailments that in normal times are a liability. However, those who are manic are better able to make decisions in the midst of chaos.

Second he argues against the Goldwater rule because he feels it codifies the stigma of "mental illness". Trump is probably right -- he probably is a genius. I wouldn't call him mentally stable nor would I call him smart, but genius is probably true.

[Ohio]

Poll: Oprah Beats Trump 48-38 with Likely Voters in 2020 Election

Got to love these polls. Yeah Hoprah!

President Barack Obama, seasoned community organizer, blasted the reality TV star, without any government experience, as “uniquely unqualified,” lacking in “basic knowledge,” zero national security experience, and “woefully unprepared” to do the job of commander-in-chief.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The liberal Press are just repeating history here. Have you read of the Goldwater Rule? Every one of these pathetic mental health "professionals" should lose their license and be sued for libel/slander.

If they are violating the ethics rules of their respective professional organizations, then it's up to the organizations to enforce their rules. If they are, then speaking out is a matter of civil disobedience. If they follow their consciences to speak out because they believe the president poses a threat to the welfare and/or security of the of country even though it will have negative consequences for their livelihoods, that's patriotism.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Yesterday I watched two interesting news reports. In one day, two of Trump's recent outspoken critics were shamed in one day. Bannon was fired from Breitbart -- completely disgraced for his vindictive smears in some tabloid NYT "bestseller."

Which means that Michael Wolff told the truth about what Bannon said. You can't have it both ways, bro.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Trump's impressive meeting with Congressional leaders over immigration/DACA was open to the Press. He let the world see the "Art of the Deal" in progress. If he can oversee comprehensive immigration reform, Trump will be tauted as a Presidential genius. Blitzer on CNN could not contain his shock of what happened. The other Wolff, the tell-all liar, was exposed as a fraud.

Actually, Trump had a mental lapse in the meeting and practically gave away the farm. During the meeting on Tuesday, Trump was asked by Dianne Feinstein if he would support "a clean DACA bill." by which she meant without strings attached to Trump's wall. Trump replied "Yeah, I would like to do it." So he and his minions had to go back and correct what he said after the meeting. Some negotiator .

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Poll: Oprah Beats Trump 48-38 with Likely Voters in 2020 Election

Got to love these polls. Yeah Hoprah!

President Barack Obama, seasoned community organizer, blasted the reality TV star, without any government experience, as “uniquely unqualified,” lacking in “basic knowledge,” zero national security experience, and “woefully unprepared” to do the job of commander-in-chief.

Yeah, a rich TV star with no experience in government would be a train wreck.