Good Lee/Bad Lee: Can They Be Separated?

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Ohio

This is a distinct example of how one can be so much against WL, that he is willing to alter the basic truths of the Bible in order to reject every statement Lee has ever made.

How can one be part of the church, if not begotten of God? Is that not what tares are -- part of the church, but not born of God? Which aspect of the church includes the un-regenerated?

These are the kind of basic frustrations that ex-members face when visiting this forum. Many Bible teachers, apart from WL, have made similar statements as that which Igzy has quoted above. I certainly have no problem with it. If OBW's pastor had said it, he would have received it without hesitation.

I tend to agree with Ohio. The first section of Lee's about God being God and Father is pretty innocuous. To say we need to be born again to be in the Church does not imply that we don't also need to be chosen, called-out, redeemed, sanctified, and everything else being brought into the Church implies. "Born again" plainly implies all that as well in Lee's theology.

Lee is clearly making the distinction between just being a creation and being a new creation. You cannot be a member of the Church spiritually without being a new creation, which means being born again. And you can't be born again without be chosen, called-out, redeemed, etc, etc. God can be your God if you are not born again, but he can't be your Father unless you are born again.

As with children, it's best to pick your battles. Don't make everything a fight or you might end up losing the war.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Igzy

I tend to agree with Ohio. The first section of Lee's about God being God and Father is pretty innocuous. To say we need to be born again to be in the Church does not imply that we don't also need to be chosen, called-out, redeemed, sanctified, and everything else being brought into the Church implies. "Born again" plainly implies all that as well in Lee's theology.

As with children, it's best to pick your battles. Don't make everything a fight or you might end up losing the war.

Leaving aside the analogy to "fighting battles and winning wars," are we not attempting to positively affect those in the LC's? How can LC members hear our many legitimate concerns, when we also undermine what they rightfully hold dear? Must we not limit our "concerns" to those instances where LSM ventures beyond the boundaries of scripture? Are not we also compelled by scripture to afford our LC brethren every liberty within the limits of the Bible?

I am convinced that if we do not actively chart this course of action, then all the LC members we face will only fortify their strongholds. That's exactly what I did.