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Old 07-12-2019, 03:07 PM   #1
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Default My Hand Is Against The Prophets Who See False Visions....Ezekiel 13:9

I began attending the LC meetings after seeing a small group passing out books at an outside market in the Greater Seattle Area. I noticed right away the reliance the members had on the Morning Revival Books. Jesus is the Way, the TRUTH and the Life but they replaced the word truth with "Reality" Very strange I thought. Perhaps they are trying to make sure people don't hear the word truth anymore so that they can undermine any sense of truthful scriptural teaching. I think of that now after discovering just how SINISTER some of this human-centered doctrine really is. Glad we all escaped. All Glory to God.
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Old 07-12-2019, 04:47 PM   #2
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Default My Hand Is Against The Prophets Who See False Visions....Ezekiel 13:9

Witness Lee always distorts the true meaning. He modifies some biblical verse for justifying his cultish beliefs and what Blended Brothers are teaching.
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Old 07-12-2019, 07:02 PM   #3
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Default My Hand Is Against The Prophets Who See False Visions....Ezekiel 13:9

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Witness Lee always distorts the true meaning. He modifies some biblical verse for justifying his cultish beliefs and what Blended Brothers are teaching.
Hear! Hear!
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Old 07-16-2019, 01:23 PM   #4
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Default Re: My Hand Is Against The Prophets Who See False Visions....Ezekiel 13:9

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Witness Lee always distorts the true meaning. He modifies some biblical verse for justifying his cultish beliefs and what Blended Brothers are teaching.
Yes, blended, recovery, mingle, all these strange buzz words they have. I told a member God makes much of people so that we can glorify him. His response? God is glorified in man. That is why they are so human-centered. The theology is twisted to focus on scriptures where they will be like god. Instead they should be centered on God being ripped apart so that they won't spend an eternity in hell. Thier focus is the reward not glorifying the One who paid everything to buy it for them.
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Old 07-16-2019, 07:55 PM   #5
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Default Re: My Hand Is Against The Prophets Who See False Visions....Ezekiel 13:9

23*And thou, Capernaum, shalt thou be exalted unto heaven? thou shalt go down unto Hades: for if the mighty works had been done in Sodom which were done in thee, it would have remained until this day. 24*But I say unto you that it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.

A very serious warning. This city experienced the Lord dwelling with them and doing mighty works yet instead of exalting the Lord they thought they would be exalted to the heavens.
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Old 07-17-2019, 07:07 AM   #6
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Default Re: My Hand Is Against The Prophets Who See False Visions....Ezekiel 13:9

Christian Dominionists want to bring back stoning. But methinks they overlooked Biblical stoning of false prophets, and that there might not be enough stones for all the Christian prophet/profit leaders that so frequently rise up among them, claiming to be Bible interpreters from God.
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Old 07-18-2019, 12:09 AM   #7
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Default Re: My Hand Is Against The Prophets Who See False Visions....Ezekiel 13:9

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Christian Dominionists want to bring back stoning. But methinks they overlooked Biblical stoning of false prophets, and that there might not be enough stones for all the Christian prophet/profit leaders that so frequently rise up among them, claiming to be Bible interpreters from God.
Quite telling in my opinion as to why there is no Pastor in authority in any
LC as there is in other churches. They claim we are all pastors, teachers etc. I think a man of God in charge might throw away all those books and lead a group out of servitude to LSM. The structure is designed so that there is no authoritative challenge to LSM and the visiting powers make sure the group is in tow to the organization. Think about it. That person is sent to make sure LSM remains the Pastor through the publications and that everyone is following the organizations directives.
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Old 07-18-2019, 02:29 AM   #8
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Default Re: My Hand Is Against The Prophets Who See False Visions....Ezekiel 13:9

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Quite telling in my opinion as to why there is no Pastor in authority in any LC as there is in other churches. They claim we are all pastors, teachers etc. I think a man of God in charge might throw away all those books and lead a group out of servitude to LSM. The structure is designed so that there is no authoritative challenge to LSM...
It was a clever back-door ruse. "No opinions" meant only my opinion ever got heard. "No Pastor" meant I got to direct everything. "No culture" meant only my culture set group norms. "No ambition" meant only my ambition got validated.

I've mentioned before, how remarkable it was that one speaker gave hundreds and hundreds of messages in front of thousands, and at the end of every message they'd line up at the microphones to congratulate the speaker on his brilliant insights, but did anyone ever come up to the mike and say, "Hey Brother Lee - your point A(2)b doesn't seem to line up with what you taught last winter in the Ezekiel Training"? Or, "Watchman Nee said something quite different here"? No - critique never came out of the assembly, post-message. It was all, validation, validation, validation - what a revelation, that God has given to [us] His people!

This observation leads me to think that BL was either dispositionally or positionally without fault, and really was "channeling God", or else he was some kind of charlatan who led the captive assembly into a lazy and stupefied self-satisfaction, with perhaps a side dose of fear. The disposition hypothesis fails with Daystar and Philip Lee as the Office. The position hypothesis needs its source culture to survive - don't question the Big Boss. It's not biblical. In the Bible when leaders erred they got called on it. So that leaves me looking at the third option.
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Old 07-18-2019, 07:15 AM   #9
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Default Re: My Hand Is Against The Prophets Who See False Visions....Ezekiel 13:9

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They claim we are all pastors, teachers etc. I think a man of God in charge might throw away all those books and lead a group out of servitude to LSM.
As a pastor, teacher, I did that, or so the leading elder/pastor/teacher/Lee sycophant, accused me of.

We were pastor, teachers, but he was a pastor, teacher, with authority, or, THE authority of the locality ; this lead elder -- chosen by Lee - had only one talent : sucking up to Lee. He was the authority of Lee, sent by Lee.

That's a funny picture. It's what's happening with the Blended Bros. ; from the grave, Lee's authority still controls, thru a group of sycophants.

Now that's just rolling on the floor hilarious, that anyone would buy into it, much less kowtow to it.
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Old 07-18-2019, 07:28 AM   #10
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Default Re: My Hand Is Against The Prophets Who See False Visions....Ezekiel 13:9

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This observation leads me to think that BL was either dispositionally or positionally without fault, and really was "channeling God", or else he was some kind of charlatan who led the captive assembly into a lazy and stupefied self-satisfaction, with perhaps a side dose of fear.
The latter brother, the latter.
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Old 07-18-2019, 07:51 AM   #11
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Default Re: My Hand Is Against The Prophets Who See False Visions....Ezekiel 13:9

I personally don't believe Lee was a charlatan. I believe he was delusional. He really believed his own PR. He really thought he was the ultimate spiritual authority on earth at the time. And he acted accordingly. Now he was monumentally deceived. But he wasn't purely cynical. He was misled by his own delusion of power. Whatever contradictions that produced he rationalized away. The end justified the means. After all, he was the MOTA, right?

You don't have to be completely evil for God to be against you for your false visions.
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Old 07-18-2019, 07:54 AM   #12
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Default Re: My Hand Is Against The Prophets Who See False Visions....Ezekiel 13:9

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The latter brother, the latter.
Notice how they'd sometimes label the meeting series or conferences as "perfecting trainings"? By getting "trained" or conformed to the groupthink, you were supposedly getting more like the Ascended Master BL, who we now realize was anything but perfect. And yet the conceit was that by getting sucked deeper into the rabbit hole, you were getting "perfected".
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Old 07-18-2019, 07:59 AM   #13
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Default Re: My Hand Is Against The Prophets Who See False Visions....Ezekiel 13:9

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I personally don't believe Lee was a charlatan. I believe he was delusional. He really believed his own PR. He really thought he was the ultimate spiritual authority on earth at the time. And he acted accordingly. Now he was monumentally deceived. But he wasn't purely cynical. He was misled by his own delusion of power. Whatever contradictions that produced he rationalized away. The end justified the means. After all, he was the MOTA, right?

You don't have to be completely evil for God to be against you for your false visions.
Part of it was ignorance combined with culture/superstition. According to cultural concepts of Nee & Lee, there HAD to be an untouchable BMOC on top of the heap. That was just how it works. So they manufactured the MOTA doctrine, a flimsy conceptual reed if there ever was one.

And Jesus knew all about it, already. He said, "That's the way things are with the Gentiles, but that should not be that way with you."

But, what does Jesus know, anyway? Culture uber alles.

Let me put it differently: native culture, unexamined, allowed a charlatan to look in the mirror and tell himself that he was serving God. It was a sort of fig leaf to cover the natural man from the bright rays of the sun.

That's just the way it is - the Normal Christian Church Life.
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Old 07-18-2019, 10:36 AM   #14
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Default Re: My Hand Is Against The Prophets Who See False Visions....Ezekiel 13:9

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I personally don't believe Lee was a charlatan. I believe he was delusional. He really believed his own PR. He really thought he was the ultimate spiritual authority on earth at the time. And he acted accordingly. Now he was monumentally deceived. But he wasn't purely cynical. He was misled by his own delusion of power. Whatever contradictions that produced he rationalized away. The end justified the means. After all, he was the MOTA, right?

You don't have to be completely evil for God to be against you for your false visions.
Just to be clear, you don't believe that Witness Lee was a fraud? That is the definition of charlatan.
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Old 07-18-2019, 10:42 AM   #15
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Default Re: My Hand Is Against The Prophets Who See False Visions....Ezekiel 13:9

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Notice how they'd sometimes label the meeting series or conferences as "perfecting trainings"? By getting "trained" or conformed to the groupthink, you were supposedly getting more like the Ascended Master BL, who we now realize was anything but perfect. And yet the conceit was that by getting sucked deeper into the rabbit hole, you were getting "perfected".

You truly have some incredible insights into this strange sub culture religious herd behavior. The Lord Jesus is the author and PERFECTOR. I feel sad for the members but then I think if they really read the Bible they should know better. Unless they are a 2nd generation church kid they are to blame for being stuck in this. Even an iota of a question of this being a cult should be enough for us not to gamble with divine matters and run.
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Old 07-18-2019, 10:48 AM   #16
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Default Re: My Hand Is Against The Prophets Who See False Visions....Ezekiel 13:9

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It was a clever back-door ruse. "No opinions" meant only my opinion ever got heard. "No Pastor" meant I got to direct everything. "No culture" meant only my culture set group norms. "No ambition" meant only my ambition got validated.

I've mentioned before, how remarkable it was that one speaker gave hundreds and hundreds of messages in front of thousands, and at the end of every message they'd line up at the microphones to congratulate the speaker on his brilliant insights, but did anyone ever come up to the mike and say, "Hey Brother Lee - your point A(2)b doesn't seem to line up with what you taught last winter in the Ezekiel Training"? Or, "Watchman Nee said something quite different here"? No - critique never came out of the assembly, post-message. It was all, validation, validation, validation - what a revelation, that God has given to [us] His people!

This observation leads me to think that BL was either dispositionally or positionally without fault, and really was "channeling God", or else he was some kind of charlatan who led the captive assembly into a lazy and stupefied self-satisfaction, with perhaps a side dose of fear. The disposition hypothesis fails with Daystar and Philip Lee as the Office. The position hypothesis needs its source culture to survive - don't question the Big Boss. It's not biblical. In the Bible when leaders erred they got called on it. So that leaves me looking at the third option.
We also don't want to stick out, rock the boat or show dissent with a large group of smiling people. Human nature too not to have the spotlight on ourselves when it comes to opposing multiple people.
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Old 07-18-2019, 12:33 PM   #17
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Default Re: My Hand Is Against The Prophets Who See False Visions....Ezekiel 13:9

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Notice how they'd sometimes label the meeting series or conferences as "perfecting trainings"? By getting "trained" or conformed to the groupthink, you were supposedly getting more like the Ascended Master BL, who we now realize was anything but perfect. And yet the conceit was that by getting sucked deeper into the rabbit hole, you were getting "perfected".
I remember Lee saying at a conference back in the 70s that just by being at the conference we were being transformed into the image of Christ.

That's some highfalutin claim that, just by being in Lee's presence it was transforming us.

Just who did Lee think his was anyway. Did his shadow heal the sick?
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Old 07-23-2019, 12:00 PM   #18
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Default Re: My Hand Is Against The Prophets Who See False Visions....Ezekiel 13:9

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I began attending the LC meetings after seeing a small group passing out books at an outside market in the Greater Seattle Area. I noticed right away the reliance the members had on the Morning Revival Books. Jesus is the Way, the TRUTH and the Life but they replaced the word truth with "Reality" Very strange I thought. Perhaps they are trying to make sure people don't hear the word truth anymore so that they can undermine any sense of truthful scriptural teaching. I think of that now after discovering just how SINISTER some of this human-centered doctrine really is. Glad we all escaped. All Glory to God.
FYI: According to Strong's Concordance, the word usually translated as "truth" (Strong's 225) can be translated as "reality".
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Old 07-23-2019, 12:04 PM   #19
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Default Re: My Hand Is Against The Prophets Who See False Visions....Ezekiel 13:9

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I remember Lee saying at a conference back in the 70s that just by being at the conference we were being transformed into the image of Christ.

That's some highfalutin claim that, just by being in Lee's presence it was transforming us.

Just who did Lee think his was anyway. Did his shadow heal the sick?
You took that as meaning it was in Lee's presence we are transformed? I would have just thought that what WL meant, was that the hearing of the Word and the sharing of Christ in that gathering is what did the transforming.
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Old 07-23-2019, 12:14 PM   #20
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Default Re: My Hand Is Against The Prophets Who See False Visions....Ezekiel 13:9

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Unless they are a 2nd generation church kid they are to blame for being stuck in this.
I wonder how many 2nd generation ckids remember the era before Holy Word for Morning Revival. Instead of prophesying according to HWFMR there was testifying according to your daily experience of Christ from the week. In my opinion as a young Christian, that was far more beneficial.
Holy Word for Morning Revival-that's clergy/laiety all because of a book. Questions I raised to a former/LC brother why not just set the ministry aside?

Based on my observations from meeting with non-LC assemblies, Churchkids are no different from 2nd generation kids whether they're Lutheran raised or Baptist raised. That's all they know. That's their comfort zone. There's no experience having met with other churches.
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Old 07-23-2019, 12:25 PM   #21
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Default Re: My Hand Is Against The Prophets Who See False Visions....Ezekiel 13:9

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I wonder how many 2nd generation ckids remember the era before Holy Word for Morning Revival. Instead of prophesying according to HWFMR there was testifying according to your daily experience of Christ from the week. In my opinion as a young Christian, that was far more beneficial.
Holy Word for Morning Revival-that's clergy/laiety all because of a book.
WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER!! That is a HUGE benefit to the body, and I wish it was practiced by more (including the LC)!
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Old 07-23-2019, 12:34 PM   #22
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WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER!! That is a HUGE benefit to the body, and I wish it was practiced by more (including the LC)!

That's basically like it was when I was there at the beginning. We had to keep to the assigned reading but we could bring in all kinds of testimonies, etc. Towards the end in another locality where the full-timers who had gone to the FTTA and the original FTTT in the 80s were in control, it was just repeat the speaking. In many of the other groups I've been in there has always been places and times for small group interactions where you could share from the Word, your experiences, testimonies, and prayer requests. This has been going on in Christ's church a long time and continues without LSM stepping in to control. Hey LSM, maybe God is really sovereign and does move in His church and does not need the co-workers and being blinded brothers to help God out. If you think otherwise I think you're agnostic.
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Old 07-23-2019, 12:46 PM   #23
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That's basically like it was when I was there at the beginning. We had to keep to the assigned reading but we could bring in all kinds of testimonies, etc. Towards the end in another locality where the full-timers who had gone to the FTTA and the original FTTT in the 80s were in control, it was just repeat the speaking. In many of the other groups I've been in there has always been places and times for small group interactions where you could share from the Word, your experiences, testimonies, and prayer requests. This has been going on in Christ's church a long time and continues without LSM stepping in to control. Hey LSM, maybe God is really sovereign and does move in His church and does not need the co-workers and being blinded brothers to help God out. If you think otherwise I think you're agnostic.
That's sad. I saw that in the last LC gathering I went to. We were traveling about 10 years ago, and there was a LC group in this one place, so I decided to go to a Sunday gathering. The songs and hymns were good, but after the break we came back to "testifying." What that was really about was just the reading of the WL daily devotion thing that people were impressed with that week. My spirit sank at hearing these ones, who were being robbed of the fresh witnessing of Christ working in and through them!

We have a Thursday weekly brothers' breakfast gathering that is most rich. This is because there is no set agenda. We sing, eat and then freely share Christ with one another. Over and over and over we'll make the comment, "Boy, I wish that all was recorded!" This is because the spontaneity of the Spirit that comes through the various brothers is just astounding, incredible and watering. Thank you Jesus!!!
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Old 07-23-2019, 12:51 PM   #24
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My spirit sank at hearing these ones, who were being robbed of the fresh witnessing of Christ working in and through them!

We have a Thursday brothers' breakfast gathering that is most rich. This is because there is no set agenda. We sing, eat and then freely share Christ with one another. Over and over and over we'll make the comment, "Boy, I wish that all was recorded!" This is because the spontaneity of the Spirit that comes through the various brothers is just astounding, incredible and watering. Thank you Jesus!!!

I wish all the brothers and sisters could experience this, I know I desperately need this to live a normal life!
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Old 07-24-2019, 08:47 AM   #25
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I wish all the brothers and sisters could experience this, I know I desperately need this to live a normal life!
That is fantastic news! There is abundant life outside the religious slavery of the LC/LSM system.
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Old 07-24-2019, 09:04 AM   #26
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That is fantastic news! There is abundant life outside the religious slavery of the LC/LSM system.

Funny and not so funny at the same time! Twenty some years ago I would have been amazed by that statement, because I still believed the line I was fed since 1974: "There is nothing of the Lord's life to be experienced outside TLR!" I was so cast-down, exasperated and nearly in tears trying to find something living outside the LC. That's when the Lord led me in 1998 to one of John Piper's books, "Desiring God." I was amazed at the focus on Christ, the talk of experiencing God, and the living water Piper shared in that book.

With the fire rekindled within me, I was immediately drawn to gather with the saints (numerous ex-LCers + others) here in Scottsdale, and this gathering has been my rest ever since. Praise God!
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Old 07-24-2019, 09:27 AM   #27
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Funny and not so funny at the same time! Twenty some years ago I would have been amazed by that statement, because I still believed the line I was fed since 1974: "There is nothing of the Lord's life to be experienced outside TLR!" I was so cast-down, exasperated and nearly in tears trying to find something living outside the LC. That's when the Lord led me in 1998 to one of John Piper's books, "Desiring God." I was amazed at the focus on Christ, the talk of experiencing God, and the living water Piper shared in that book.

With the fire rekindled within me, I was immediately drawn to gather with the saints (numerous ex-LCers + others) here in Scottsdale, and this gathering has been my rest ever since. Praise God!
That's precious! I'm returning to the locality that I excommunicated the elders from my family's life, and have thought about restarting a non-LSM home meeting where we can enjoy the Lord and His word without interference.
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Old 07-24-2019, 10:44 AM   #28
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That's precious! I'm returning to the locality that I excommunicated the elders from my family's life, and have thought about restarting a non-LSM home meeting where we can enjoy the Lord and His word without interference.
I've quarantined the whole local church movement.
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Old 07-24-2019, 10:52 AM   #29
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Default Re: My Hand Is Against The Prophets Who See False Visions....Ezekiel 13:9

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That's precious! I'm returning to the locality that I excommunicated the elders from my family's life, and have thought about restarting a non-LSM home meeting where we can enjoy the Lord and His word without interference.
WHAT!? Start a "non-LSM" meeting and "enjoy the Lord"?!? Is that even remotely possible?
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Old 07-24-2019, 11:19 AM   #30
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Default Re: My Hand Is Against The Prophets Who See False Visions....Ezekiel 13:9

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John Piper's books, "Desiring God." I was amazed at the focus on Christ, the talk of experiencing God, and the living water Piper shared in that book.
I was just recently asking the Lord this week that if there is no single MOTA, then who else in the Body today have You given as gifts that minister according to the New Testament ministry? And out of nowhere as I was looking for resources on the net on how to speak to Jehovah Witnesses, (I just found out a couple that befriended me in my neighborhood is JW) I ran into this YouTube video by a John Piper....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHg7YcJ2NPQ

His sharing is sharp, penetrating, full of power and light....

And then I found this one on "How does Christ live in me?" Gal. 2:20

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAnByp5lt-M

This is healthy teaching. (I hope the rest of his ministry is similar.....)
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Old 07-24-2019, 06:08 PM   #31
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Default Re: My Hand Is Against The Prophets Who See False Visions....Ezekiel 13:9

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I was just recently asking the Lord this week that if there is no single MOTA, then who else in the Body today have You given as gifts that minister according to the New Testament ministry? And out of nowhere as I was looking for resources on the net on how to speak to Jehovah Witnesses, (I just found out a couple that befriended me in my neighborhood is JW) I ran into this YouTube video by a John Piper....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHg7YcJ2NPQ

His sharing is sharp, penetrating, full of power and light....

And then I found this one on "How does Christ live in me?" Gal. 2:20

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAnByp5lt-M

This is healthy teaching. (I hope the rest of his ministry is similar.....)
Is John Piper calvinist? I was told he is.
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Old 07-24-2019, 06:41 PM   #32
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Default Re: My Hand Is Against The Prophets Who See False Visions....Ezekiel 13:9

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Is John Piper calvinist? I was told he is.
Yep, don't know how rabid a Calvinist he is. The first book I read after leaving the LC and attending a community Church was Desiring God by John Piper. Made the writing of LSM and RK look sophomoric.
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Old 07-24-2019, 07:08 PM   #33
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Default Re: My Hand Is Against The Prophets Who See False Visions....Ezekiel 13:9

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Yep, don't know how rabid a Calvinist he is. The first book I read after leaving the LC and attending a community Church was Desiring God by John Piper. Made the writing of LSM and RK look sophomoric.
I find E. P. Sanders does that in leaps and bounds.
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Old 07-24-2019, 07:09 PM   #34
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Default Re: My Hand Is Against The Prophets Who See False Visions....Ezekiel 13:9

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I was just recently asking the Lord this week that if there is no single MOTA, then who else in the Body today have You given as gifts that minister according to the New Testament ministry? And out of nowhere as I was looking for resources on the net on how to speak to Jehovah Witnesses, (I just found out a couple that befriended me in my neighborhood is JW) I ran into this YouTube video by a John Piper....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHg7YcJ2NPQ

His sharing is sharp, penetrating, full of power and light....

And then I found this one on "How does Christ live in me?" Gal. 2:20

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAnByp5lt-M

This is healthy teaching. (I hope the rest of his ministry is similar.....)
Kevin Thompson is a good teacher of scripture. His YouTube channel is called beyondthefundamentals. I highly recommend.
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Old 07-24-2019, 07:10 PM   #35
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Default Re: My Hand Is Against The Prophets Who See False Visions....Ezekiel 13:9

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I find E. P. Sanders does that in leaps and bounds.
Don't know him, let me check it out.
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Old 07-24-2019, 08:19 PM   #36
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Default Re: My Hand Is Against The Prophets Who See False Visions....Ezekiel 13:9

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The first book I read after leaving the LC and attending a community Church was Desiring God by John Piper.
Me too - lead wonderfully to that book trying to figure out if there was life after TLR, and at a very low point (which is usually where He gets through)!
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Old 07-28-2019, 09:49 PM   #37
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Default Re: My Hand Is Against The Prophets Who See False Visions....Ezekiel 13:9

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It was a clever back-door ruse. "No opinions" meant only my opinion ever got heard. "No Pastor" meant I got to direct everything. "No culture" meant only my culture set group norms. "No ambition" meant only my ambition got validated.

I've mentioned before, how remarkable it was that one speaker gave hundreds and hundreds of messages in front of thousands, and at the end of every message they'd line up at the microphones to congratulate the speaker on his brilliant insights, but did anyone ever come up to the mike and say, "Hey Brother Lee - your point A(2)b doesn't seem to line up with what you taught last winter in the Ezekiel Training"? Or, "Watchman Nee said something quite different here"? No - critique never came out of the assembly, post-message. It was all, validation, validation, validation - what a revelation, that God has given to [us] His people!

This observation leads me to think that BL was either dispositionally or positionally without fault, and really was "channeling God", or else he was some kind of charlatan who led the captive assembly into a lazy and stupefied self-satisfaction, with perhaps a side dose of fear. The disposition hypothesis fails with Daystar and Philip Lee as the Office. The position hypothesis needs its source culture to survive - don't question the Big Boss. It's not biblical. In the Bible when leaders erred they got called on it. So that leaves me looking at the third option.
I think some thin-skinned man was feeling rather paranoid some brothers were developing their gifts of ministry and teaching. Squashed all that an all localities would do my speaking in book format. Either way it seems clergy/laiety. You're right it is. That's why they will try to sell you calling the color orange, blue. So to speak.

The Lord's Recovery as they like to call themselves as is a cesspool of blatant hypocrisy. Clergy/Laiety is just one of many examples.
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Old 08-12-2019, 07:09 PM   #38
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Default Re: My Hand Is Against The Prophets Who See False Visions....Ezekiel 13:9

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The Lord's Recovery as they like to call themselves as is a cesspool of blatant hypocrisy. Clergy/Laity is just one of many examples.
I was wondering what you mean by that. TLR preached against the clergy/laity, and rightly so I believe. BUT I think they practice it too, behind a veil of eldership. As I remember, by definition it is someone who is above, that is, telling others what to do. This is a blatant usurping of the headship of Christ. "It is for freedom that Christ set us free" (Gal 5:1), and not to be yoked under bondage of someone besides the Anointing One within.
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Old 08-12-2019, 08:15 PM   #39
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Default Re: My Hand Is Against The Prophets Who See False Visions....Ezekiel 13:9

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I was wondering what you mean by that. TLR preached against the clergy/laity, and rightly so I believe. BUT I think they practice it too, behind a veil of eldership. As I remember, by definition it is someone who is above, that is, telling others what to do. This is a blatant usurping of the headship of Christ. "It is for freedom that Christ set us free" (Gal 5:1), and not to be yoked under bondage of someone besides the Anointing One within.
Not "behind a veil of eldership". Clearly a hierarchy of power over people, 'behind a veil of levels of blended bros', dispensing their definition of 'deputy authority'; mota being the highest level. 'Elders' being the first in line to submit to deputy authority copyrighted in the hundreds of thousands of pages printed and sell sell sell; elders lead all else to buy buy buy, read, submit submit submit to deputy authority aka blended bros nearest to mota throne. Do the will of the top level 'blended bros'; which they claim is the will of the mota.

"LOOOK .... there's an empty chair here (if he's here ... tho dead over 20 years) ... bro. mota agrees with me, my burden is his burden ..."
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Old 08-14-2019, 11:56 AM   #40
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Default Re: My Hand Is Against The Prophets Who See False Visions....Ezekiel 13:9

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I was wondering what you mean by that. TLR preached against the clergy/laity, and rightly so I believe. BUT I think they practice it too, behind a veil of eldership. As I remember, by definition it is someone who is above, that is, telling others what to do. This is a blatant usurping of the headship of Christ. "It is for freedom that Christ set us free" (Gal 5:1), and not to be yoked under bondage of someone besides the Anointing One within.
There's a hierarchy. To say there isn't is a deception. You wouldn't be seeing an elder submitting to the rebuke of a sister. This veil of eldership is one that one may assume license to abuse. If one reacts against the abuse, "you're going against God's deputy authority". Thing is these elders, they're not voted on by the assembly they're appointed and the assembly is expected to give a rubber stamp amen.
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Old 08-15-2019, 09:03 AM   #41
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Default Re: My Hand Is Against The Prophets Who See False Visions....Ezekiel 13:9

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"you're going against God's deputy authority".
What a crock! This is why I've chosen to not read any books about this. There are elders where I meet, and I don't want any silly, man-made opinions I might form hindering fellowship between us. These guys are brothers first and foremost, and to consider them as something lofty would be a rip-off for all involved. Know what I mean? Yes, they have a position which I respect, and I pray for the Lord to give them strength and wisdom, but we don't need some silly opinions about man's "deputy authority." I much rather trust the Anointing regarding this potentially harmful matter!
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Old 08-15-2019, 10:01 AM   #42
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Default Re: My Hand Is Against The Prophets Who See False Visions....Ezekiel 13:9

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What a crock! This is why I've chosen to not read any books about this. There are elders where I meet, and I don't want any silly, man-made opinions I might form hindering fellowship between us. These guys are brothers first and foremost, and to consider them as something lofty would be a rip-off for all involved. Know what I mean? Yes, they have a position which I respect, and I pray for the Lord to give them strength and wisdom, but we don't need some silly opinions about man's "deputy authority." I much rather trust the Anointing regarding this potentially harmful matter!
Why would any Christian minister dream up the notion of deputy authority when so much of scripture clearly repudiates such claims, and so much church history reveals the damages caused? Wasn't the first "deputy authority" the Pope?

When did Nee and Lee begin to promote these horrible ideas? They were already "kings" in their respective "kingdoms." Supposedly it was following a rebellion, an attempted takeover by evil ambitious men, and the justification for asserting this teaching was to protect the church of God from chaos and false accusations. Didn't you know that powerful leaders always protect the church from evil?

Nothing could be further from the truth. The false teaching of deputy authority was promoted to protect the leader from being accountable for sin.
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Old 08-15-2019, 10:28 AM   #43
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Default Re: My Hand Is Against The Prophets Who See False Visions....Ezekiel 13:9

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Why would any Christian minister dream up the notion of deputy authority when so much of scripture clearly repudiates such claims, and so much church history reveals the damages caused? Wasn't the first "deputy authority" the Pope?

When did Nee and Lee begin to promote these horrible ideas? They were already "kings" in their respective "kingdoms." Supposedly it was following a rebellion, an attempted takeover by evil ambitious men, and the justification for asserting this teaching was to protect the church of God from chaos and false accusations. Didn't you know that powerful leaders always protect the church from evil?

Nothing could be further from the truth. The false teaching of deputy authority was promoted to protect the leader from being accountable for sin.
Exactly! It sounds a little like what they say in politics, "Don't let any good crises go to waste!" That is, make sure that you use the crises to gain more ground.
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Old 08-15-2019, 11:52 AM   #44
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Exactly! It sounds a little like what they say in politics, "Don't let any good crises go to waste!" That is, make sure that you use the crises to gain more ground.
LC leadership at the top is nothing but Bible-flavored Politics.
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