Has Lee really embellished and distorted Nee's works ?

[Truthseeker]

I have received a warning that many Watchman Nee's works from LSM publications were falsely translated by Witness Lee. Lee might keep the original Chinese version with himself and tried to distort and embellish Nee's works by his unauthentic translation in order to have Nee supporting Lee. This is true? Should I seek Nee's works in another publication apart from LSM?

[UntoHim]

Great subject Truthseeker!

As you may, or may not know, much of what is published by the Living Stream Ministry is not the direct written words of Watchman Nee. Nee only wrote a few things that have made it to English. One would be his monumental work "The Spiritual Man" (which he wrote in his 20s) There may be just a few others, and I'm sure someone out there can let us know.

Most of the so called "writings" of Nee published by LSM are simply the translation/transcribing of the hand notes taken down by various members of the original Local Churches (AKA "The Little Flock") There is little doubt that Witness Lee had full editorial powers of the translation of these notes into the English language. So mostly what we have is Lee's interpretation of what Watchman actually spoke. Now with Witness Lee's track record, can we really assume that these are true and accurate publications which we can trust in?
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[Raptor]

I have read several posts in this forum that say the Spiritual Man is basically plagiarized from Penn-Lewis?

I never liked that book, some topics seem very interesting, but inevitably whenever I read it, I would end up in some kind of Christ-less, hyper analytical, mental spider web about evil forces in the spiritual world. I remember even several brothers/elders in the local church would openly recommend NOT to read it.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

I have received a warning that many Watchman Nee's works from LSM publications were falsely translated by Witness Lee. Lee might keep the original Chinese version with himself and tried to distort and embellish Nee's works by his unauthentic translation in order to have Nee supporting Lee. This is true? Should I seek Nee's works in another publication apart from LSM?

After I first contacted the LC in Cleveland, I bought Kinnear's biography of Nee. A Chinese elder JY told me to "throw it away, since it has more than 200 major errors." How would he know, since he was never there in China? Simple. Lee said so. But Kinnear was the SIL of TASparks, so he did provide great perspective to thwart Lee's rampant hagiography. I never did read that book.

Before the Midwest quarantines became official, TC had all the elders read thru Nee's book TNCCL. This was supposedly the all-time classic commentary on the church-life, and the guiding principles (published architectural "blueprint" for the Recovery) by which Lee operated. That was a shocking read. Now whether that book actually matched the N.T. is open for debate, but one thing was definitely certain, nothing in that book matched the practices of either Lee, TC, or the Blendeds.

It is my personal belief that reading that book did TC more harm than good. TC was obviously hoping that the book would expose only the errant leadership practices of the Blendeds. The pending LC crisis between Cleveland and Anaheim caused many of us to realize how far off everything was in the recovery. Help! Look how lost we are! How did we get here?

One time brothers went to Lee about these discrepancies between Nee's book and his leadership controls. Lee abruptly responded, "You are questioning me? I was there!" I know a brother who went to TC with the same questions, he got a similar cold shoulder.

It is obvious that LSM writes a self-serving history for their people. Recently I learned that brother Dan Towle has left, and they must remove his name from all publications. They did the same thing to John Ingalls et. al. a quarter century ago. Who knows what else they are rewriting.

As a publisher LSM has proved that it is just not trustworthy. They only publish Nee and Lee, so any flaws in their history would damage their revenue stream. The Bible was never this way. Peter never got to go back to the Gospels or the book of Galations to scrub out his failures. Neither did any of the O.T. men of God. I would now trust other publications of Nee before I would trust LSM's.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Raptor

I have read several posts in this forum that say the Spiritual Man is basically plagiarized from Penn-Lewis?

I never liked that book, some topics seem very interesting, but inevitably whenever I read it, I would end up in some kind of Christ-less, hyper analytical, mental spider web about evil forces in the spiritual world. I remember even several brothers/elders in the local church would openly recommend NOT to read it.

I heard that too. They told us it was "too perfect."

They forgot to mention the plagiarism.

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Great subject Truthseeker!

As you may, or may not know, much of what is published by the Living Stream Ministry is not the direct written words of Watchman Nee. Nee only wrote a few things that have made it to English. One would be his monumental work "The Spiritual Man" (which he wrote in his 20s) There may be just a few others, and I'm sure someone out there can let us know.

Most of the so called "writings" of Nee published by LSM are simply the translation/transcribing of the hand notes taken down by various members of the original Local Churches (AKA "The Little Flock") There is little doubt that Witness Lee had full editorial powers of the translation of these notes into the English language. So mostly what we have is Lee's interpretation of what Watchman actually spoke. Now with Witness Lee's track record, can we really assume that these are true and accurate publications which we can trust in?
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Hi all,
I am keeping up with the threads which have saddened me while shedding more light on the darkness of the LC/LSM.

As l have shared, my short lived time in the LC was a positive one over all. It took many years after leaving the LC and walking with our Savior Jesus Christ that l got some insight from some of Watchman Nee’s teachings. While in the LC l did not understand his writings whatever l read. I was a baby in the Lord still drinking Milk and growing in the spirit at a slow pace.

I was very disturbed when some revelations of Née’s character was revealed or exposed on the forum. I am not sure l believe all that was written of him. The reason is he shared, wrote and taught, explained some deep regarding scripture.

When l began to grow and mature spiritually 30 some years after leaving the LC
I got clarity from reading some of his writings l found in reading portions of The Spiritual Man. It just clicked. Btw l bought the book at a Christian bookstore and the book did not have the LSM logo.

While l get insight and understanding from various Godlly teachers, l rely on God the Holy Spirit to reveal God’s Word to me.
U
I can’t and won’t trash all oF Nee’s writings. What l have read has given me clarity and ,understanding that agrees with my spirit. I have not read nor do l intend to read all his writings. So there might be and probably are wrong teachings in some of his wonrks.

However l personally believe Née is far, far more credible than Lee. I think Lee got puffed up and did not practice or experience Galatians 2:20, neither did he experience humility or love for the saints in the LC or the saints outside his camp. Neither did he experience the power of repentance or the power of the cleansing Precious Blood of Jesus in his l.ife from what l can tell.

Fortunately when l first came to the LC, repentance and the power of Christ’s shed Blood in our daily lives was taught to me over and over. I got it and experienced the scriptures in my daily life. Through the years they have been cemented in my spirit and in my mind. I thank John Smith especially for his guidance.

Great stuff on this discussion forum lately.

Blessings to all!

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Raptor

I have read several posts in this forum that say the Spiritual Man is basically plagiarized from Penn-Lewis?

I never liked that book, some topics seem very interesting, but inevitably whenever I read it, I would end up in some kind of Christ-less, hyper analytical, mental spider web about evil forces in the spiritual world. I remember even several brothers/elders in the local church would openly recommend NOT to read it.

I was told not to read it because some brothers got demons from it. I read it anyway. It struck me as nutty. No wonder some went crazy from it.

[JJ]

Christian Fellowship Publishers (CFP) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I-Z4zo...K1OltQ&index=2
is a different source for Watchman Nee materials. These are also translations from Chinese.
These books were in the church book room in my “local church” in the late 1970’s but Witness Lee told the saints that Steven Kaung was the one behind CFP and bad-mouthed both him and his translations (“he doesn’t see the church, and won’t publish Watchman Nee’s books about the local churches” and “his translations aren’t accurate”.) discouraging saints to buy from CFP and to buy from LSM.

[aron]

The only book Nee wrote was "Spiritual Man", and that was largely cribbed, without attribution, from Penn-Lewis (The Christian and War against the Saints I believe). I once read the publisher's preface to the Second Edition where they said as much.

The English titles from CFP were done by Elizabeth Fischbacher and Angus Kinnear, who went round with Nee and recorded and transcribed his talks. I know they did Keswick - "The Normal Christian Life" and perhaps more. I also heard Ruth Lee did this too: she was his "editorial section" for years. Steven Kaung? So there's 4 possible original sources.

Where did LSM get Nee documents? I don't know. Same source? Different source? I know that the LSM editors "polish" Lee's oral messages to remove some of the more inflammatory stuff. Maybe the LSM did this with Nee? Even added stuff? No way to know, that I can tell.

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by JJ

...Witness Lee told the saints that Steven Kaung was the one behind CFP and bad-mouthed both him and his translations (“he doesn’t see the church, and won’t publish Watchman Nee’s books about the local churches” and “his translations aren’t accurate”.) discouraging saints to buy from CFP and to buy from LSM.

Gosh, the more I hear about Lee the less I want to hear about Lee. I can't believe I grew up under this guy. Life is just so strange.

Sorry, carry on.

[HERn]

Originally Posted by JJ

Christian Fellowship Publishers (CFP) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I-Z4zo...K1OltQ&index=2
is a different source for Watchman Nee materials. These are also translations from Chinese.
These books were in the church book room in my “local church” in the late 1970’s but Witness Lee told the saints that Steven Kaung was the one behind CFP and bad-mouthed both him and his translations (“he doesn’t see the church, and won’t publish Watchman Nee’s books about the local churches” and “his translations aren’t accurate”.) discouraging saints to buy from CFP and to buy from LSM.

The "elders" removed all books by CFP from our book room sometime in 1996.

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Ohio

It is obvious that LSM writes a self-serving history for their people. Recently I learned that brother Dan Towle has left, and they must remove his name from all publications. They did the same thing to John Ingalls et. al. a quarter century ago. Who knows what else they are rewriting.

Explain me more about Dan Towle. There are another so called turmoils in LC.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Explain me more about Dan Towle. There are another so called turmoils in LC.

Dan Towle was a long time co-worker with W. Lee. He headed up the DCP -- Defense and Confirmation Project -- which was essentially the legal arm of LSM. Though few facts are known, Dan left years ago, and I read that LSM is now expunging his name from all publications. A serious and pathetic lack of appreciation exists at the highest levels of LSM, and *it* just keeps flowing down their little mountain.

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Dan Towle was a long time co-worker with W. Lee. He headed up the DCP -- Defense and Confirmation Project -- which was essentially the legal arm of LSM. Though few facts are known, Dan left years ago, and I read that LSM is now expunging his name from all publications. A serious and pathetic lack of appreciation exists at the highest levels of LSM, and *it* just keeps flowing down their little mountain.

Benson 3:5 He who is faithful to Witness Lee will be clothed with an LSM tie and pin and I shall by no means erase his name out of the books of LSM

[JJ]

Originally Posted by aron

The only book Nee wrote was "Spiritual Man", and that was largely cribbed, without attribution, from Penn-Lewis (The Christian and War against the Saints I believe). I once read the publisher's preface to the Second Edition where they said as much.

The English titles from CFP were done by Elizabeth Fischbacher and Angus Kinnear, who went round with Nee and recorded and transcribed his talks. I know they did Keswick - "The Normal Christian Life" and perhaps more. I also heard Ruth Lee did this too: she was his "editorial section" for years. Steven Kaung? So there's 4 possible original sources.

Where did LSM get Nee documents? I don't know. Same source? Different source? I know that the LSM editors "polish" Lee's oral messages to remove some of the more inflammatory stuff. Maybe the LSM did this with Nee? Even added stuff? No way to know, that I can tell.

I may have confused Christian Literature Crusade (CLC) with CFP https://www.clcpublications.com/about/FP, and vice versa. Both published Nee, and some of their books were in my local churches’ book room in the late 1970’s. (and I bought and read them).

CFP also publishes Steven Kaung books. http://www.c-f-p.com/

Lee always said that LSM used notes taken by Chinese saints during Nee’s spoken conferences and trainings as the basis for LSM’s Nee books. I don’t recall who he said took the notes that formed the basis for the books. I understood that he had taken some notes himself, but others had as well. Lee claimed to have been entrusted with the Chinese publication work of Nee when Nee sent him to Taiwan after the communist take over of China and was exhorted by Nee to preserve the publication work in Taiwan.

[JJ]

One of the things that struck me in the last few years I was in TLR and reading LSM books but waking up to Lee’s errors was that Lee and Nee books sometimes said contradictory things about the same passage(s) of scripture.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by JJ

One of the things that struck me in the last few years I was in TLR and reading LSM books but waking up to Lee’s errors was that Lee and Nee books sometimes said contradictory things about the same passage(s) of scripture.

Nee supposedly said when there are different interpretations, "someone is not holding the Head."