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Oh Lord, Where Do We Go From Here? Current and former members (and anyone in between!)... tell us what is on your mind and in your heart.

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Old 05-30-2018, 04:19 PM   #1
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Default Some Good Things to Come Out of the Recovery?

After starting the "Recovering from the Recovery" thread, I felt compelled to start one about the good things that may have come out of it.

The thing that comes to me immediately is the functioning of every member. I must admit that when I visit other gatherings, and hear a great message, I think a HUGE opportunity is lost if there isn't some open sharing at the end. I can't tell you how much of a help this has been, and the Lord definitely speaks clearly through various members.

(The last LC I visited still sort of did this, but it was very rote, and the saints were only "allowed" to speak certain things. This was a Spirit killer. There was no fresh experience of Christ conveyed from their daily life, just something they were impressed with from (for instance) the current Life Study.)

I've also enjoyed, where I am now, that several brothers rotate in the Sunday teaching. Some time ago it was mainly just one brother sharing and it was very good. But then it was opened up to various ones to do the teaching, and things really took off!

So I know other groups before the LC had tried to break the hold of the clergy-laity system, but I give the LC credit for its current manifestation. The freedom for all the members to function is a huge thing, and I wish more would see and experience that.

Unfortunately, as we all know, this was abused by the LC leadership, and saints were not allowed the freedom they should have - in the gatherings and elsewhere.

So what's another good thing?
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Old 05-30-2018, 04:42 PM   #2
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If only one person does the speaking that is the clergy-laity system so that should be discouraged.

Another good thing is the use of the (same) Bible in the meetings, and also a very good bible that is even used outside of the recovery. In denominations I was tired of pastors uses watered down versions like "the message" and spinning that into some story about social justice or whatever feel-good message they wanted to preach.
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Old 05-30-2018, 04:51 PM   #3
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If only one person does the speaking that is the clergy-laity system so that should be discouraged.

Another good thing is the use of the (same) Bible in the meetings, and also a very good bible that is even used outside of the recovery. In denominations I was tired of pastors uses watered down versions like "the message" and spinning that into some story about social justice or whatever feel-good message they wanted to preach.
Not sure what you mean by your first statement - can you clarify?
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Old 05-30-2018, 07:26 PM   #4
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Not sure what you mean by your first statement - can you clarify?
You mentioned rote and only certain saints allowed to say certain things, that is a liturgical clergy-laity system. If only one person is speaking they have become "clergy" to the ones who don't speak who are the "laity". The clergy-laity system evolves from a majority of members not wanting or able to speak or a few members imposing rules that only one or two can speak. The format of the meetings encourages everyone to speak but if that does not happen it becomes a clergy-laity meeting.
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Old 05-31-2018, 05:16 AM   #5
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You mentioned rote and only certain saints allowed to say certain things, that is a liturgical clergy-laity system. If only one person is speaking they have become "clergy" to the ones who don't speak who are the "laity". The clergy-laity system evolves from a majority of members not wanting or able to speak or a few members imposing rules that only one or two can speak. The format of the meetings encourages everyone to speak but if that does not happen it becomes a clergy-laity meeting.
Are you defining a clergy-laity system based on a meeting format or as the practice of a church body? I guess I could google it.

I regularly participate with a group of believers from different “denominations” where we sit in a circle, break bread and people are free to share a word, hymn, song, praise, etc. This is much different than at the LSM churches, where most everyone regurgitates LSM approves materials. In an attempt for some appearance of authenticity, my LSM locality was “training” people not to read directly from the LSM material. It was too blatantly obvious what was going on and they wanted people to stick to the script, but not to directly read. This carries over into home meetings too... so sad!

They also mentioned this at the training in Anaheim, so I assume this is true throughout. Those who are skilled in regurgitating Witness Lee in their own words get extra Amen’s.
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Old 05-31-2018, 05:25 AM   #6
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In an attempt for some appearance of authenticity, my LSM locality was “training” people not to read directly from the LSM material. It was too blatantly obvious what was going on and they wanted people to stick to the script, but not to directly read.
This is how LSM defines oneness and the one accord -- all speak the same thing, speak the one thing, think the one thing, etc -- straight from the latest LSM book without appearing too "robotic." Yet the stated goal of the FTT's is to mass produce "Witness Lee Tape Recorders."
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Old 05-31-2018, 04:54 PM   #7
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Are you defining a clergy-laity system based on a meeting format or as the practice of a church body? I guess I could google it.

I regularly participate with a group of believers from different “denominations” where we sit in a circle, break bread and people are free to share a word, hymn, song, praise, etc. This is much different than at the LSM churches, where most everyone regurgitates LSM approves materials. In an attempt for some appearance of authenticity, my LSM locality was “training” people not to read directly from the LSM material. It was too blatantly obvious what was going on and they wanted people to stick to the script, but not to directly read. This carries over into home meetings too... so sad!

They also mentioned this at the training in Anaheim, so I assume this is true throughout. Those who are skilled in regurgitating Witness Lee in their own words get extra Amen’s.
I used the term system in a loose way. There is the clergy-laity system which is the official way things are ordered and structured by clergy and laity. But practice wise, some "clergy-laity" churches may not practice clergy-laity distinctions as much as others. And in the recovery a church may practice a clergy-laity distinction more than a Catholic church. This is something we need to be aware of, and it all starts with expecting only one person to speak every Sunday, or one person insisting they speak and not giving others a chance. This happens because people don't read their morning revivals and Bible at home during the week, they come to the meeting and expect others who have to fill in their knowledge gaps. This is no different really to a person in the denominations going to church on a Sunday to listen to the priest and never reading their devotionals and bible at home.
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Old 05-31-2018, 10:51 AM   #8
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You mentioned rote and only certain saints allowed to say certain things, that is a liturgical clergy-laity system. If only one person is speaking they have become "clergy" to the ones who don't speak who are the "laity". The clergy-laity system evolves from a majority of members not wanting or able to speak or a few members imposing rules that only one or two can speak. The format of the meetings encourages everyone to speak but if that does not happen it becomes a clergy-laity meeting.
It wasn't that only certain ones were permitted to speak, but what they spoke had some controls on it, as is being brought out on this thread.

So we know that this is another one of those things that started pretty well in the "Recovery," but then degraded.

But since this is a thread about good things that came out, I would put forth the 2nd one: The Emphasis on the Indwelling Christ. While the LC certainly didn't have the market cornered on this subject either, this was a central teaching of Nee and Lee.

(And, again, what started as a good focus of "Christ in you, the hope of glory" unfortunately devolved into the external control thing. And I should add that today 95% of the speaking I hear in Christendom still focuses on some aspect of the law. They may speak of New Testament things, but it is conveyed in an old covenant way of performance - still stuck in a Galatians type error. Most haven't learned that the Christian life is impossible to live apart from the life of Christ in them!)

But, nonetheless, I believe this focus - Christ in y-all - is the central theme to what the new covenant is about, and I think the Recovery did a lot to promote this truth.
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Old 05-31-2018, 04:06 PM   #9
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You mentioned rote and only certain saints allowed to say certain things, that is a liturgical clergy-laity system. If only one person is speaking they have become "clergy" to the ones who don't speak who are the "laity". The clergy-laity system evolves from a majority of members not wanting or able to speak or a few members imposing rules that only one or two can speak. The format of the meetings encourages everyone to speak but if that does not happen it becomes a clergy-laity meeting.
Hasty generalization!

Here in Grace Baptist Church, we have cell groups where everyone has the opportunity to share from their studies and meditations on the scripture. And everyone is encouraged to evangelize the lost. You err to generalize every Christian groups with clergy-laity system!
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Old 05-31-2018, 04:21 PM   #10
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Hasty generalization!

Here in Grace Baptist Church, we have cell groups where everyone has the opportunity to share from their studies and meditations on the scripture. And everyone are encouraged to evangelize the lost. You err to generalize every Christian groups with clergy-laity system!
That's awesome!! I recognize that if a gathering is too large (e.g., at Sunday teaching time) it may not be conducive to open sharing from members. But I consider it so key that even in those situations it would be really good if at least a few were allowed to share something they were inspired by afterward.

I've sometimes heard that groups don't want to do that for fear of what someone might say or that things could "get out of control." That is always a possibility, but I have to say the benefits of the riches that come out of the members speaking, far outweighs any of the downsides. And in experiencing this kind of open meeting for perhaps 30 years, I can honestly say I could easily count on one hand the times anything got too far sideways.

But that is a big benefit of smaller meetings too. So if it, for some legitimate reason, can't be done in the large corporate gatherings, then I think there definitely needs to be small gatherings where everyone is encouraged to share real experiences of Christ.
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Old 05-31-2018, 04:57 PM   #11
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Hasty generalization!

Here in Grace Baptist Church, we have cell groups where everyone has the opportunity to share from their studies and meditations on the scripture. And everyone are encouraged to evangelize the lost. You err to generalize every Christian groups with clergy-laity system!
If everyone has the opportunity to share, then that is not a clergy-laity system.

But if everyone is lazy and looks to one person in the group to do most of the speaking, essentially they look up to that person as a "clergy". That's how it starts. It parallels the situation in Israel when they wanted a king to rule over them. They basically wanted to hand over their spiritual responsibilities to others, and those who wish to control others are more than happy to oblige under the guise of them being "unable" or doing a "poor job".
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Old 05-31-2018, 07:52 PM   #12
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Hasty generalization!

Here in Grace Baptist Church, we have cell groups where everyone has the opportunity to share from their studies and meditations on the scripture. And everyone are encouraged to evangelize the lost. You err to generalize every Christian groups with clergy-laity system!
I remember one Full-Timer commenting to me in private about how easy it was to be a Christian in the denominations -- only coming one hour a week to church.

It just shows you how insulated they are from any contact with the real world. All they know about other Christian churches are the cheap comments drummed into them for years. Is this not the very definition of prejudice and stereotyping?
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Old 06-02-2018, 09:35 AM   #13
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So what's another good thing?
I enjoyed the sharing of the members too. Until I discovered that the head elder had 14 brothers seeding the meetings. That killed the Spirit to me.

And the other important thing, or things, I learned from my LC experience is : How it shouldn't be. Like the top down authority and oracle of God thing. My advise is to run the other way from that as fast as you can. Bad, bad, bad, and not scriptural, according to Jesus in the New Testament.
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Old 06-10-2018, 12:07 AM   #14
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Another good thing is the love feast although I never have seen it practiced in the same way as the early church.
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Old 06-10-2018, 02:46 PM   #15
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Another good thing is the love feast although I never have seen it practiced in the same way as the early church.
I love to eat with the whole group! How did the early church do it?
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Old 06-10-2018, 03:34 PM   #16
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I love to eat with the whole group! How did the early church do it?
It was for believers only, not unbelievers, and excess food was distributed to the poor.

But due to widespread abuse of the practice it was banned by the time of the middle ages I think.
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Old 06-12-2018, 01:56 PM   #17
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Alrighty, here's what we have thus far of good things to come out of the so called "Recovery":

1. Open meetings - encouraging all to function
2. The Emphasis on the Indwelling Christ
3. Calling on the name of the Lord
4. Taking in the Pure Milk of the Word


Now here's a 5th and perhaps final one (as I may be growing weary of all this):

One church; One city

Just speaking for myself, but while I know that this was used in a divisive way (perhaps inadvertently) by some in the LC, I think the basic principle is pretty doggone sound. For far too long it has just been accepted practice by Christians to divide and divide again, to the point that all this division just seems normal somehow. But as Paul asks, "Is Christ divided?"

And again, this "one church one city" teaching wound-up (like all teachings apart from Christ) as something that just puffed up and divided. As Paul told the Corinthians, "Some say 'I am of Paul'; some say 'I am of Cepheus', 'some say 'I am of Christ.'" The ones saying they were of Christ were doctrinally correct, but wrong in their prideful stance - which only divided them from others.

I remember reading a book I got so much enjoyment in my spirit from - and an incredible amount of grace (the most pleasurable aspect of grace - bubbling up from deep in my spirit). It was called the "Speciality, Generality & Practicality of the Church Life" by Witness Lee (1983). In fact, I can't recall being graced by any other book, apart from the Bible, more than this one! It showed how one we really are. This book talked about how to not focus on the minor doctrinal points and differences between believers - and, of course, there's a lot of them! The Lord spoke this to me in a way I could never forget --- most all Christian divisions are silly and vain works of the flesh. Lee said the only things we should hold firm to, with others, were just the key things of our faith, such as Christ's divinity; Him and His atoning work being the One Way; the Bible being the Word of God, etc. All else should be laid aside to not stumble a brother and to keep the oneness (that is, we should be very general about these noncritical things).

I just dug up my old coffee-stained copy of this book and quickly leafed through it again. I see nothing about the need to doggedly hold to a "one church - one city" doctrine as a central article of our faith. So, while I think OCOC is a sound principle illustrated in the NT, and I thank God for it, I don't think anyone should hold to it as a key article of their Christian faith - lest they cause a division by it.
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Old 06-12-2018, 03:32 PM   #18
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One church per city is not meant to be a doctrine, but a reality. Insert Lee's moon analogy here. Catholic and others practice one church per city but that is different.

Does anyone know why one church per city is sound (besides it being that way in the early church)? What is the principle for it? I know the answer, but many people don't. Maybe Drake knows, Sons to Glory maybe. If you understand the principle, the one church per city idea will make sense. If you don't get the principle, it won't make sense.
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Old 06-13-2018, 01:48 PM   #19
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I remember reading a book I got so much enjoyment in my spirit from - and an incredible amount of grace (the most pleasurable aspect of grace - bubbling up from deep in my spirit). It was called the "Speciality, Generality & Practicality of the Church Life" by Witness Lee (1983). In fact, I can't recall being graced by any other book, apart from the Bible, more than this one! It showed how one we really are. This book talked about how to not focus on the minor doctrinal points and differences between believers - and, of course, there's a lot of them! The Lord spoke this to me in a way I could never forget --- most all Christian divisions are silly and vain works of the flesh. Lee said the only things we should hold firm to, with others, were just the key things of our faith, such as Christ's divinity; Him and His atoning work being the One Way; the Bible being the Word of God, etc. All else should be laid aside to not stumble a brother and to keep the oneness (that is, we should be very general about these noncritical things).

I just dug up my old coffee-stained copy of this book and quickly leafed through it again. I see nothing about the need to doggedly hold to a "one church - one city" doctrine as a central article of our faith. So, while I think OCOC is a sound principle illustrated in the NT, and I thank God for it, I don't think anyone should hold to it as a key article of their Christian faith - lest they cause a division by it.
I'm actually going to quote myself regarding this book, because it just occurred to me that this book was the first light He showed me regarding this matter. As I look back on the nearly 50 years of my Christian life, I see where He was always leading me to something and protecting and leading me away from something else. I marvel at His faithful preservation work over me, as I am certainly not smart enough to have figured these things out for myself! He gets the glory!

Through that WL book (which was pretty much all I was reading in those days + maybe a very few other "approved" authors) the Lord planted a seed in me. But after reading it, I continued to believe there was nothing of value outside the Recovery for some time. When we left Columbus OH, I had hooked up with a company that transferred me into the middle of the California Mojave Desert. I condemned myself over this, because I thought I had left God's only real move on the earth. In fact, I thought God would probably whack me good for it . . . But now I realize He put us there to dry out (that's what happens the desert) and prepare me for something new.

But for years I continued to think that the LC and its ministry were the one and only. This was until in utter despair I found myself at a Christian bookstore desperately looking for something to eat (after fasting in the desert). There were a ton of things there that were really just "junk food" Christianity or legal Christianity. It seemed as if it was all confirming what I believed was true - only the LC had the genuine article. I wandered around & around in that bookstore for over an hour, searching in despair . . . (it was a very big store)

Something said in me that I shouldn't go back to the LC, but what else was out there!? I was quite frustrated with God, and more than a little disillusioned.

But then Praise God! He led me to a book with the title, "Desiring God" by John Piper. There was something different about this book that drew me in. As I read it, words and life were leaping off the page! Could it be?! Could I have found something that was worthwhile outside of the Recovery!!?? I excitedly purchased the book and went home and started enjoying page after page over the next few weeks. This brother (Piper) had some very real and fresh experience of Christ!

Through my reading and seeking Him, my heart softened towards God. I was just starting to see what He was showing me. He then immediately led me to a group of seeking lovers of Jesus nearby, and began to show me about His love.

He is faithful!
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Old 07-02-2018, 09:45 AM   #20
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Here ya go! Below is what I wrote after He showed me something while camping in the mountains the summer of 2013. I often find when I get away from the daily routine, that I am able to hear Him more clearly. What He spoke to me then was regarding His Body, Bride & Building. The below encompasses all three, but focuses somewhat more on His building work. (I apologize for the format as I copied and pasted this from a Word doc.)

God’s Building Work: Importance & Reward

The importance God places on how we build-up one another as living stones in His dwelling place.

Key to verses below:
A. We are God’s dwelling place, which He is building B. Help build in love C. Judgment in building – Reward or Loss

A 1. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church (Gk. ekklesia – called out gathering), and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. Matthew 16:18

A 2. Yourselves also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house. . . 1 Peter 2:5

A 3. Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in Spirit. Ephesians 2:20-22

A 4. But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end. Hebrews 4:6

>>>Also see John 14:1-3, 23 “I go to prepare a place for you. . .”; “We will make our home with you.”
Revelation chapter 21: “the New Jerusalem . . . prepared as a bride adorned for her Husband.”

B 1. From whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love. Ephesians 4:16

B 2. So also you--since you are zealous for spiritual gifts, seek to excel in building up the church. What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up. 1 Corinthians 14:12 & 26

B 3. For the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ. Ephesians 4:12-13

B 4. All things to me are lawful, but all things are not profitable; all things to me are lawful, but all things do not build up. 1 Corinthians 10:23

B 5. No foul language is to come from your mouth, but only what is good for building up someone in need, so that it gives grace to those who hear. Ephesians 4:29

B 6. Now we who are strong have an obligation to bear the weaknesses of those without strength, and not to please ourselves. Each one of us must please his neighbor for his good, to build him up. Romans 15:1-2

B 7. So then we pursue the things which make for peace and the building up of one another. Romans 14:19

C 1. But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment (Bema) seat of God. Romans 14:10

C 2. The one who plants and the one who waters have one purpose, and they will each be rewarded according to their own labor. For we are co-workers in God’s service; you are God’s field, God’s building. By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames. Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in your midst? If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy that person; for God’s temple is sacred, and you together are that temple. 1 Corinthians 3:8-17

C 3. For it is time for judgment to begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God? 1 Peter 4:17 (who He loves/receives He disciplines - Heb 12:6)

C 4. REWARD: Read the letter to the Church in Philadelphia, Revelation 3:7-13 (many references to the building, unique in His letters to the churches) This church, focused on love & building, receives a wonderful promise!

“Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor has it entered into the heart of man,
what God has prepared for those loving him!”
1 Corinthians 2:9
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Old 07-04-2018, 02:37 AM   #21
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To provide further perspective as UntoHim has given us....

“...all things---our lives, our beings, our breath---come as gifts from God. Of ourselves we have nothing. All our notions of ownership are an illusion; all our pride, a deception. We are not sovereign but completely dependent. Everything we have---our possessions, our money, our riches, every moment of our lives---everything has been given to us.

Every heartbeat is borrowed. … “

In other words, what do we have that we didn’t receive?

The greatest failure of Lee, et al, was the failure to acknowledge what he had received and to instead take undue credit. Whatever is truly “good” comes as a gift from God. That “the recovery” credits Lee is a fundamental flaw and necessitates grasping at straws to find the “good”.

I understand the desire to exonerate “it”, but perspective is needed as UntoHim states.

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Old 07-04-2018, 09:33 AM   #22
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Default Re: Some Good Things to Come Out of the Recovery?

I'm not sure of your point - please explain. Are you saying nothing good at all came out of "The Recovery?" If so, I disagree. I know I was very specifically lead of the Lord 2500 miles to CJ's Old Garage in Berkeley in 1974 - a semi-miraculous event, to be sure! The Lord has shown me there was much good to come out there, and that He preserved me from the not so good. This is what He does.

My intention here is to provide a little balance to the overwhelming amount of posts that are completely on the negative side concerning all things LC.
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Old 07-04-2018, 09:55 PM   #23
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Default Re: Some Good Things to Come Out of the Recovery?

I’m not crediting anyone or anything but God for that which is good, but you made my point for me. You were led of the Lord, not “the recovery”. The miracle was His doing, not “the recovery”. The Lord showed you...He preserved you...this is what He does. He put you where he wanted you so he could do his work in you. Was that because of where you were (the recovery) or because of his Sovereignty?

Whatever good exists is because He is good. I’m providing perspective to your balance.
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Old 07-05-2018, 10:36 AM   #24
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Default Re: Some Good Things to Come Out of the Recovery?

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I’m not crediting anyone or anything but God for that which is good, but you made my point for me. You were led of the Lord, not “the recovery”. The miracle was His doing, not “the recovery”. The Lord showed you...He preserved you...this is what He does. He put you where he wanted you so he could do his work in you. Was that because of where you were (the recovery) or because of his Sovereignty?

Whatever good exists is because He is good. I’m providing perspective to your balance.
That is exactly right! He has done it and is doing it. He places members in the body as He sees fit.

My testimony is that when I had a strong experience of Him in Ohio when I was 18, I distinctly prayed, "Lord, take me to be with those who love you like I do." A week later I hitchhiked 2500 miles across country, and within a couple hours of hitting Berkeley I was miraculously lead of Him straight to CJ's Old Garage where the LC in Berkeley was meeting at the time. I had little idea about anything, but I knew He put me there! Why didn't He place me with ones in Ohio? I don't know, except that He loves me. It was all the best and according to His will. Perfect. Period.

Quite recently He showed me that He's had the bulls-eye painted right here (Scottsdale) all along, that I would be here. But many things needed to happen in order to prepare all that. He's amazing!!!!
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Old 07-05-2018, 06:36 AM   #25
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Default Re: Some Good Things to Come Out of the Recovery?

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Originally Posted by Sons to Glory! View Post

My intention here is to provide a little balance to the overwhelming amount of posts that are completely on the negative side concerning all things LC.
Thank you... There is no doubt in me God led me to the LC in 1975. It is where I became rooted and grounded in the Word of God. I experienced wonderful fellowship.. many times it was fun! FUN !! I had FUN in the LC!

I sought the LORD and the LORD won. I sought the SON and the SON Won. (thinking of the melody 'I fought the law and the law won. I fought the law and the law one).

So sorry for those who suffered and continue to suffer through the legalism and controlling reigns of the LR. May God give them the Grace and Strength, the Wisdom and Insight to throw out the dirty bathwater but not JESUS.

Remember JESUS will never leave you or forsake you and He makes all things new.

From Psalm 103:4-5
He redeems your life from the pit,
HE crowns you with lovingkindness and compassion;
(Jesus) satisfies your years with good things,
So that your youth is renewed like the eagle.



Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your understanding.
Proverbs 3:5

Showers of Healing Blessings to all.
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Old 07-05-2018, 10:24 AM   #26
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Default Re: Some Good Things to Come Out of the Recovery?

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So sorry for those who suffered and continue to suffer through the legalism and controlling reigns of the LR. May God give them the Grace and Strength, the Wisdom and Insight to throw out the dirty bathwater but not JESUS.

Remember JESUS will never leave you or forsake you and He makes all things new.
Yes and amen! A leading bro here said the same thing recently when discussing the LC, regarding throwing out the dirty bathwater but not JESUS!

That sums up what I see here in Scottsdale. We do our best to focus on Christ and His two commandments: Love God & each other. This same bro said at breakfast this morning that he believes this is what God will look for at the Bema - "How did you handle my Son and those He lives in?"

Sovereignly Bill Freeman got the boot from the LC 30 years ago. Then there was a "house cleaning" in Scottsdale 20 years ago. God loves me so much, I almost feel like He did these things just for me! So I don't need to swim in the dirty bathwater, and can just be here enjoying Christ . . . accepted in the Beloved with all the saints!

As I've mentioned in this thread, some of the LC practices were quite sound and useful, so the saints here kept those. Things such as the open meetings with sharing and testimonies. This is so healthy and nourishing to all. And there is no overt (or even covert) insistence on any author or particular teaching - though we hope it is Christ centered and shared in love!
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