The LCS Factor

[PriestlyScribe]

One further suggestion I would like to make, after having skimmed all the way back to the disturbing start of this thread. Our God is well able to heal much of the damage that we or others may have caused, if we will just open our hearts up to the light of His countenance.

For some, the following message on recovering from "Spiritual Abuse" can serve as a catalyst in moving toward healing and restoration:



Restoring The Christian Family - by Jack Frost
Find More Material At: MendingFamily.com

Malachi Ch4
5 I am about to send Elijah the prophet to you before the great and terrible day of Jehovah comes; 6 And he will turn the heart of the fathers to the children and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and strike the land with a curse.

P.S.

[PriestlyScribe]

Originally Posted by PriestlyScribe

Malachi Ch4
6 And he will turn the heart of the fathers to the children and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and strike the land with a curse.

I feel there are two main reasons that we allowed our hearts to be re-directed away from our wife and children, and toward the so called church:

(1) Most of us lacked Godly positive role models for this while growing up. Later on in life it was very difficult to find a good pattern among the leaders in the churches.
(2) Few of us heard any healthy definitive teaching on how we should care for our families according to God and the Bible. Or, we heard it only once in a piecemeal fashion, never to be repeated again.

Below is a quote which will likely be seen as outright HERESY by the "up-to-date-Vision" loyalists in the local churches. But it is the truth from the Bible, and If I took the time, It would be easy to back up each point by quoting directly from the ministry of Watchman Nee and (early) Witness Lee.

Question: What Should be the order of Priorities in our Family?
Audio MP3: Family Priorities

Answer: The Bible does not lay out a step-by-step order for family relationship priorities. However, we can still look to the Scriptures and find general principles for prioritizing our family relationships. God obviously comes first: Deuteronomy 6:5, “Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.” All of one’s heart, soul, and strength is to be committed to loving God, making Him the first priority.

If you are married, your spouse comes next. A married man is to love his wife as Christ loved the church (Ephesians 5:25). Christ’s first priority—after obeying and glorifying the Father—was the church. Here is an example a husband should follow: God first, then his wife. In the same way, wives are to submit to their husbands “as to the Lord” (Ephesians 5:22). The principle is that a woman’s husband is second only to God in her priorities.

If husbands and wives are second only to God in our priorities, and since a husband and wife are one flesh (Ephesians 5:31), it stands to reason that the result of the marriage relationship—children—should be the next priority. Parents are to raise godly children who will be the next generation of those who love the Lord with all their hearts (Proverbs 22:6; Ephesians 6:4), showing once again that God comes first. All other family relationships should reflect that.

Deuteronomy 5:16 tells us to honor our parents so that we may live long and so things will go well with us. No age limit is specified, which leads us to believe that as long as our parents are alive, we should honor them. Of course, once a child reaches adulthood, he is no longer obligated to obey them (“Children, obey your parents...”), but there is no age limit to honoring them. We can conclude from this that parents are next in the list of priorities after God, our spouses, and our children. After parents comes the rest of one's family (1 Timothy 5:8).

Following one’s extended family in the list of priorities are fellow believers. Romans 14 tells us not to judge or look down upon our brothers (v. 10) or do anything to cause a fellow Christian to “stumble” or fall spiritually. Much of the book of 1 Corinthians is Paul’s instructions on how the church should live together in harmony, loving one another. Other exhortations referring to our brothers and sisters in Christ are “serve one another in love” (Galatians 5:13); “be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you” (Ephesians 4:32); “encourage one another and build each other up” (1 Thessalonians 5:11); and “consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds (Hebrews 10:24). Finally comes the rest of the world (Matthew 28:19), to whom we should bring the gospel, making disciples of Christ.

In conclusion, the scriptural order of priorities is God, spouse, children, parents, extended family, brothers and sisters in Christ, and then the rest of the world. While sometimes decisions must be made to focus on one person over another, the goal is to not be neglecting any of our relationships. The biblical balance is allowing God to empower us to meet all of our relationship priorities, inside and outside our families.

© Copyright 2002-2010 Got Questions Ministries. www.GotQuestions.org

P.S.

[countmeworthy]

I am saddened by soo many troubled marriages among Christians...LCrs and otherwise as well as secular marriages.

I have never gotten married...Don't know why but I have never had a strong 'urge' to be married. Jeremiah did not get married and recently at a conference the minister of the Word of God brought this out. My silly friend turned to me and said she was changing my name to Jeremiah. Too funny !
I am very content being single and am able to pray w/o ceasing pray, study the Word of God, meditate on it, build up the Body of Christ, share the gospel, and have FUN, FUN, FUN doing it. Of course, spiritual warfare ain't always fun. And while the JOY of the LORD is my Strength, I dare NOT remove the WHOLE Armour of GOD. I wear it 24/7 because I know all too well the wiles of the devil ! So I protect my thoughts at all times ( or try to anyway) by making sure the Helmet of Salvation is securely adjusted on my head. I make sure the Breastplate of Righteousness is protecting my heart from growing cold or hardened. I don't let go the Shield of Faith which protects me from the firey darts hurled at me with one hand and with the other I hold on to tightly to the Sword of the Spirit which is the Word of God. My loins are girded with the TRUTH...and JESUS is the Way, the Truth and the LIFE. My feet are firmly grounded with the gospel of Peace and I am COVERED by the BLOOD of the LAMB.

You married friends....remember: CHRIST, the ANOINTED ONE, IN YOU is the HOPE of your GLORY...and your marriage, your children are your Glory. Don't let the devil make mincemeat out of you.

So the Lee ministry screwed up in teaching the married couples how to be strong in the Lord. Too bad soo many of us were blind sheep. Couples should have been sitting together in meetings. There should have been more meetings catered to families. A 'sing in' as we used to call them filled with Praise, Worship and JOY should have been incorporated every two weeks allowing children to participate with their parents and church friends, cousins, and even secular friends.

But that was then...this is now.

I pray the Lord will restore your health and heal your wounds as He promises in Jeremiah 30:17 I believe it says.

OUR Heavenly CREATOR, the Father of GLORY LOVES US !!! Gosh, so many people in the LC or former FORGOT that TRUTH. We were drawn to HIM because HE drew us to Himself. And once we surrendered our lives to the Lord, that low-down, no good THIEF threw a snare trying to steal, kill and destroy families and friendships in the name of religion.

But we know how the story ends. So be of good courage. We have a GREAT, AWESOME, WONDERFUL GREAT PHYSICIAN and what Satan meant for evil, GOD will turn for Good. He did it for Joseph. He did it for me.

Delight in Him as Psalm 37:4 tells us and He will grant you/us the desires of your heart.

And you married brothers: When your wife says: YOU JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND ME !!!! Tell them that when God created Adam, he did not watch God make Eve for he was asleep. uttingtosleep: If he had been awake, he might have figured out what makes Eve tick. And because he didn't, you don't know how to figure out your wife. Give her lots of hugs and ask the LORD to help you make her laugh. Humor is such a healing property in our lives. SHOULD the LORD ever bring someone to me to marry, I have a tall order...and high on the list is my husband better be FUNNY. Not forced funny but naturally, gifted witty and funny.

Your friend in Christ,
Carol

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by PriestlyScribe

Deuteronomy 5:16 tells us to honor our parents so that we may live long and so things will go well with us. No age limit is specified, which leads us to believe that as long as our parents are alive, we should honor them.

Hey P.S....Countess Worthy here.

On Halloween, I buy candy for the tricker-treaters but along with the candy I put in their bags, I place colored index cards in their bags with scriptures on them.

I always use Ephesians 6:3 which is similar to Deuteronomy 5:16.

Honor your Mother and Father that it may be well with you.

It is followed by Ephesians 6:8: Knowing that whatever good thing you do, you will receive back from the Lord.
The second index card with scriptures I throw in their bags is:

Psalm 14:1 The FOOL has said in his heart "There is no God". But the Favor of God and His Love through the Lord Jesus Christ will open doors no person can close. Revelation 3:8

And

John 14:6: NO person, man, woman, child can go to the Father God but through Jesus for Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life and there is No other Name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved. Acts 4:12.
Ya know....you gotta make the best out of every opportunity. I pray for the Lord to anoint the scriptures and for Him to speak to the reader of the cards. You never know who will get saved, or return to the Lord.

[OBW]

In the middle of Priestly Scribes last post was a transcription of a question "from the audience." In the middle of the question came this comment:

And I know that, you know, even our children, the Lord has their own course for them. And they may not all make it into the church life.

Ron Kangas goes on to respond that "first is Christ and the church." In fact, he actually says "we are here seeking the Kingdom first. And first is Christ and the church." So in the LC theology according to RK, the Kingdom is "simply Christ and the church."

NOT

The Kingdom is the righteousness of God expressed and displayed. But Lee/RK would have us ignore righteousness and just focus on uber-spirituality by just talking about and being involved in "Christ and the church." I'm not sure that Christ is very involved in that endeavor. At least not the way that Lee/RK/BP/the BBs would like to make it be.

God's righteousness is expressed when we have good family relationships, good work relationships, righteous dealings with our customers, right living as we drive along the highway. His Kingdom comes when there are people living according the the restored position as representatives of God on the earth. Not just in religious meetings having a joyous time popping out of our seats to repeat our "portion" from HWMR or reading from the collected works of Nee and Lee.

Pushing your kids aside so you can get to more meetings is the opposite of righteous living.

But there is one more thing in that brother's statement that is very telling. He is now convinced that "they may not all make it into the church life" and this concerns him. What is he "church life"? Where is this described in the scripture? And what is this "make it" thing about? (John So came to Dallas back in the 70s and asked that very question. "What are you trying to make?" "Make what?") As few times as the word church, assembly or however you want to translate it is used in the NT, I am not aware of any that talk about a "church life." I can find Christ's life. I can find living your life in a manner that is worthy of the gospel. But no "church life."

I feel very sorry for the people who are bound by a need to "make it" when the "it" is something as meaningless as the "church life."

[tasteslikegold]

Originally Posted by OBW

The Kingdom is the righteousness of God expressed and displayed. But Lee/RK would have us ignore righteousness and just focus on uber-spirituality by just talking about and being involved in "Christ and the church." I'm not sure that Christ is very involved in that endeavor. At least not the way that Lee/RK/BP/the BBs would like to make it be.

God's righteousness is expressed when we have good family relationships, good work relationships, righteous dealings with our customers, right living as we drive along the highway. His Kingdom comes when there are people living according the the restored position as representatives of God on the earth. Not just in religious meetings having a joyous time popping out of our seats to repeat our "portion" from HWMR or reading from the collected works of Nee and Lee.

I cannot agree with your definition of righteousness nor your characterization of LC meetings. A proper definition of righteousness is "absolute uprightness before God." In terms of the period of the law from Moses until Christ it was related to the keeping of the law. In terms of the church-age, from Christ onward, it is a matter of faith, of believing into Christ (Rom. 4:3; 1:17; 3:22, etc.). Any so-called "righteous behavior" in and of ourselves - even as Christians - is completely insufficient to properly display the kingdom of God. We have to be related to Christ and the church has to be related to Christ. Without regular involvement with Christ - our personal interactions with Him - and without our regular interactions with the Body of Christ, the church, we cannot display the righteousness of God. Not in any way, shape or form. I don't care how "good" you are to your family, friends, co-workers or customers.

As far as your comment regarding the LC meetings is concerned, displaying God's righteousness is not even that. Nor, for that matter is it standing in a Christian "worship meeting" while a band plays a rock version of "Oh My Soul" with your arms up in the air like some kind of spiritual satellite dish.

Pushing your kids aside so you can get to more meetings is the opposite of righteous living.

Which is exactly why we bring our children to the meeting.

But there is one more thing in that brother's statement that is very telling. He is now convinced that "they may not all make it into the church life" and this concerns him. What is he "church life"? Where is this described in the scripture? And what is this "make it" thing about? (John So came to Dallas back in the 70s and asked that very question. "What are you trying to make?" "Make what?") As few times as the word church, assembly or however you want to translate it is used in the NT, I am not aware of any that talk about a "church life." I can find Christ's life. I can find living your life in a manner that is worthy of the gospel. But no "church life."

I feel very sorry for the people who are bound by a need to "make it" when the "it" is something as meaningless as the "church life."

Really? I think that you understand very well what "church life" means. It's simply a term which means "My life related to the church." Do you accept Christendom's terms like "church service" or "Sunday school"? You should know what these terms means pretty well without criticizing them, right? What about when someone talks about "my ministry" or when someone says "going to church." Do you criticize them by saying, "The Bible never uses the terms 'my ministry' and it never says 'going to church'"? Do you label these terms meaningless as well?

Doubtful.

[PriestlyScribe]

Originally Posted by tasteslikegold

Why should we "get over" the terminology if it happens to work for us?

The reason you should get over the "terminology" addiction is because IT IS NOT WORKING, and Witness Lee already knew that this would be the outcome, way back in 1983.

Below is the prophesy that he spoke to all of the Elders back then. And there is no denying that it has come to pass exactly as WL predicted!

''THE TWO PERILS''
Witness Lee's Emphatic and Prescient Warning to the Elders
"If we are not in the focus and if we do not experience what we preach to others, we face two perils. One, sooner or later there will be divisions. Two, if we don't practice the focal points, the saints have no way to practice them. The things we teach will eventually become doctrines in the Lord's recovery. There will be no reality. The recovery will be just empty. Then in the sphere of the so-called recovery there will be divisions and emptiness... The only thing that can keep the Lord's recovery full of reality is to practice what we now preach and teach and to help the saints in every locality to practice the same thing." "If we expect an increase either by evangelism or by the spreading of the doctrines we teach, we shall surely face these two perils... To care for the spread of our work is dangerous. It will produce different works to build up different ministries. Then division will result. We can foresee this. Furthermore, if we don't pay full attention to practice these things in our daily life and to bring all the saints in our local church into these practices in their daily life, the churches will be empty. I am fearful and trembling of these two perils: the peril of different works being produced to cause division and the peril of emptiness. We will have the ground of one church, one city, and we will have the scriptural teachings, yet there will be no real experience of Christ in our daily life... And if we don't practice the focal things experientially, spontaneously we will fall into the snare of emptiness. We may boast that our teachings are scriptural, that we don't have forms, rituals, or organization. It may be true that we don't have these things, but we don't have the reality either. What we have is just emptiness. This is quite serious, brothers. We have to be alerted to stay in the central lane, practicing all the focal things ourselves daily. We must also be burdened to help the saints in our locality practice these things, to grow in life that they might be genuinely and practically built up in the Trinity."
( Practical Talks to the Elders #4, Pages 62-63, by Witness Lee, on March 14, 1983, in Anaheim CA - Living Stream Ministry)

Recommended Remedial Materials - by Arthur Katz :

''What If'' (Are We Deceived?) Message Related FTTA Outline HYMN 426

P.S.

[tasteslikegold]

Again, you are correct. These same two points motivated me to expose Ron Kangas' false teaching regarding the foundational Priorities for Parents in the local churches. This angers the Lord Jesus Christ greatly and it must be brought out into the light and dealt with.

A teaching that is "false" can be quantified. Please cite by way of your apparent vast collection of recordings the instance where Ron Kangas contradicted or taught falsely regarding the "foundational priorities for parents in the local churches." Also, I would like to hear or receive textual transcription of messages in which Witness Le specifically addressed what the "foundational priorities for parents in the local churches" are. PLease outline them for me here.

Thank you.

[tasteslikegold]

Originally Posted by PriestlyScribe

The reason you should get over the "terminology" addiction is because IT IS NOT WORKING, and Witness Lee already knew that this would be the outcome, way back in 1983.

Below is the prophesy that he spoke to all of the Elders back then. And there is no denying that it has come to pass exactly as WL predicted!

''THE TWO PERILS''
Witness Lee's Emphatic and Prescient Warning to the Elders
"If we are not in the focus and if we do not experience what we preach to others, we face two perils. One, sooner or later there will be divisions. Two, if we don't practice the focal points, the saints have no way to practice them. The things we teach will eventually become doctrines in the Lord's recovery. There will be no reality. The recovery will be just empty. Then in the sphere of the so-called recovery there will be divisions and emptiness... The only thing that can keep the Lord's recovery full of reality is to practice what we now preach and teach and to help the saints in every locality to practice the same thing." "If we expect an increase either by evangelism or by the spreading of the doctrines we teach, we shall surely face these two perils... To care for the spread of our work is dangerous. It will produce different works to build up different ministries. Then division will result. We can foresee this. Furthermore, if we don't pay full attention to practice these things in our daily life and to bring all the saints in our local church into these practices in their daily life, the churches will be empty. I am fearful and trembling of these two perils: the peril of different works being produced to cause division and the peril of emptiness. We will have the ground of one church, one city, and we will have the scriptural teachings, yet there will be no real experience of Christ in our daily life... And if we don't practice the focal things experientially, spontaneously we will fall into the snare of emptiness. We may boast that our teachings are scriptural, that we don't have forms, rituals, or organization. It may be true that we don't have these things, but we don't have the reality either. What we have is just emptiness. This is quite serious, brothers. We have to be alerted to stay in the central lane, practicing all the focal things ourselves daily. We must also be burdened to help the saints in our locality practice these things, to grow in life that they might be genuinely and practically built up in the Trinity."
( Practical Talks to the Elders #4, Pages 62-63, by Witness Lee, on March 14, 1983, in Anaheim CA - Living Stream Ministry)

Recommended Remedial Materials - by Arthur Katz :

''What If'' (Are We Deceived?) Message Related FTTA Outline HYMN 426

P.S.

This has nothing to do with terminology in the least. This has to do with having the same living as that which we preach.

Much different that what OBW mentioned.


Try again.

[PriestlyScribe]

Originally Posted by tasteslikegold

This has nothing to do with terminology in the least. This has to do with having the same living as that which we preach.

Much different that what OBW mentioned.


Try again.

Ok, then try listening to the first 10min of this message - it examines false reliance upon spiritual terminology in great detail:

''What If'' (Are We Deceived?) Message Related FTTA Outline HYMN 426

P.S.