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Old 03-16-2019, 04:49 AM   #5501
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Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
I am not a Trump hater. Not being a Trump cheerleader doesn't make me a hater. I am simply telling the truth, he is an insulting person, he is abusive, and he is arrogant. This conclusion is based solely on his own words.

Saying this doesn't in any way say that previous presidents weren't liars, cheats, and disingenuous. This is not a binary choice, Trump being arrogant doesn't require that Obama be a saint and vice versa.

"As for women and wimps in the locker room" we are seeing that with the Democrats (Pelosi, AOC, Omar and Clinton). They are disintegrating right in front of our eyes. AOC's blunder with Amazon.com, trying to be tough and instead got body slammed. I would be stunned if she lasts more than 1 term. Likewise with Omar, giving the Democrats a major black eye that will not go away. And how wimpy is Pelosi. Saying that "Trump is not worth impeaching". That is the total cowards way out. She wants to claim he has done things worthy of impeachment but somehow it isn't worth impeaching him. Do your job. If he has done things worthy of impeachment, then your job is to impeach him. If on the other hand the entire thing has been a political witch hunt and you have been exposed, your lies and cowardice are simply continuing to dig the hole you will be buried in.
AOC never got "body slammed." In fact, most Democratic hopefuls have taken up her Green Deal. Have you forgotten, "she's the boss?"

Omar too won a great victory. Instead of censure for despicable comments, and removal from the Foreign Relations Commitee, like King of Iowa, she got "much needed anti-hate legislation."

I think ZNP and others here got a "technical knockout" for supporting Muller's Witch Hunt in the face of all evidence to the contrary. Instead of rightly admitting the coup d'etat, you clamor about "Trump is rude, Trump is arrogant." That's like complaining about "foul-mouthed" American politicians as Pearl Harbor was being attacked.
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Old 03-16-2019, 04:54 AM   #5502
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Hey ... Jonathan Cahn is preaching and teaching how Trump was prophesied in the Bible to be president. According to Cahn, he's a modern day King Jehu.

And then there's all the claims that he's King Cyrus.

Methinks that Christians are making him bigger than the media does. They're making him out to be a Bible hero. It doesn't get any bigger than that.
I guess I missed that CNN report about King Cyrus or King Jehu in the White House.
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Old 03-16-2019, 04:56 AM   #5503
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No brother. It's all over the Christian Prophecy sites. Look it up. They believe God is controlling history, and it's further development.
Christians believe God is controlling history?

Perhaps the weather too?

Appalling!
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Old 03-16-2019, 08:13 AM   #5504
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Christians believe God is controlling history?

Perhaps the weather too?

Appalling!
I know. If God is controlling history, He's doing an appalling job. I stand against vilifying God like that.
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Old 03-16-2019, 10:11 AM   #5505
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AOC never got "body slammed." In fact, most Democratic hopefuls have taken up her Green Deal. Have you forgotten, "she's the boss?"
What you don't see in politics is far more important than what you do. The fact that she is receiving very mild rebukes in public is simply because the democrats don't want to offend her supporters. They understand that as foolish and idiotic some of the things she has done are, she still represents a number of people who would walk away from the Democratic party if they publicly rebuke her.

That said "money talks and BS walks" in politics. Amazon.com has money, they do the talking, Comey and Diblasio are listening, two very important democrats. No doubt Clinton and others are also listening. So let's see if AOC is opposed in the next election by a very well funded candidate who wins the Democratic nomination. That is when you will realize they put the knife in her back.

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Omar too won a great victory. Instead of censure for despicable comments, and removal from the Foreign Relations Commitee, like King of Iowa, she got "much needed anti-hate legislation."
Again, the issue is will she be reelected? The democrats cannot risk offending Muslims, they are critical in elections decided by less than 3%. But that doesn't mean that behind the scenes they have already decided she must go. Again, let's see if she gets reelected? You might think that Muslims would rally behind her, but I doubt it. Her reelection will be very high profile and if she were funded by Islamic organizations it would become a major campaign issue, stir up more heated rhetoric, and bring negative publicity to a minority that does not want negative publicity.
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Old 03-16-2019, 10:45 AM   #5506
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I think ZNP and others here got a "technical knockout" for supporting Muller's Witch Hunt in the face of all evidence to the contrary. Instead of rightly admitting the coup d'etat, you clamor about "Trump is rude, Trump is arrogant." That's like complaining about "foul-mouthed" American politicians as Pearl Harbor was being attacked.
I guess I need to do a post mortem, why could I not see it, what was blinding my eyes?

I like your analogy to Pearl Harbor, that is very personal for me. My dad was 12 at the time and spent the day rowing sailors (mostly dead ones) from the Arizona. His house was less than 100 feet from where it was anchored (his old house is now a historical site). Of course he is not the heroic figure Trump is with his phony 4F, nor would I liken my grandfather to Trump either, both my father and grandfather were in the military and recognized a war hero even if he was captured or killed.

So why would we as a family become so naive, able to fall for this Fake news coup? Pretty insulting when you think about it, especially since my Dad got forced out because he refused to let the CIA set up shop in UPI. Fake news has been a very critical force to our family since 1977. Later he disagreed with the NYT handling of the reporting on JFK assassination, and again left. Fake news has been a very big deal in our family and yet here I am, so naive?

I get it, we have had Fake news since 1977 yet it takes CNN saying mean things about Trump for others to see it. So I am happy about that. It has been 42 years, but at least you can now see what I see and know that it matters.

Likewise the coup d'etat. That took place in 1963, so I am glad you finally figured that out. No one cared about the Box 13 scandal when I brought it up, but how do you think the CIA controls Johnson? Do what we say or we'll expose you are a fraud. That is one reason why I welcome the Mueller investigation, because no one is going to be able to bring down the whole "fruitless works of darkness" if they are a fraud.

But that is not the only reason. In the 60s my uncle's house was bombed by the KKK (Robert Kochtitzky). This was because he was standing with the black churches in Jackson, Ms. So our family has been in the center of the civil rights movement for virtually my whole life. I have seen many people approach this issue, most of them with the ministry of condemnation which does not yield righteousness, which is why 50 years later we still see bombings and shootings in churches, mosques, etc. My uncle understood the ministry of righteousness which includes reconciliation. If I hadn't been given a TKO I could tell you the difference, guess you'll have to google it for yourself. But one thing I do know from my experience, the ministry of condemnation is full of those who set themselves up as the judge and jury, deciding who is knocked out and who isn't.

We saw the Black Panthers, they went down a failed path of an eye for an eye, of being conquered by the evil. But who knows 50 years later you would think people would finally figure out this is not a path that leads to righteousness. But I also saw Martin Luther King Jr. and his "coarse jesting" and infidelity was detrimental to the movement. The NT says "be perfect" and he wasn't. Trump isn't either. So yes, I point this out because I know it will undermine anything else he wishes to do. For example Bill Belichik is a family friend, he went to the same university as my cousins and they would have him over to their house. Still I will point out that spygate and deflategate were both unrighteous and will damage his legacy, giving his haters ammunition.

But going back to your Pearl Harbor analogy, one outcome of that attack was the internment camps. No doubt people thought that was the patriotic thing to do. My dad didn't. Instead they figured out who the spy was. He was a butcher. All the admirals would call ahead when they were gonna be in port to order steaks. As a result the butcher (who was Japanese) knew when every ship was going to be in port. Rather than throw every Japanese in jail, find out the traitor and deal with him. Likewise with Trump, instead of falsely accusing him of being a traitor, lets be more precise in our dealing with sin. So since we both agree that the internment camps were unrighteous and foolish, and that they were similar to the false accusations made against Trump why did I support the Mueller investigation? Well, Warren was governor of California and supported the internment camps. That error no doubt influenced his being chosen for the Supreme Court (figured he'd be tough on the commies) yet that error no doubt shaped his opinion and his court ruled on transformative civil rights decisions.

Is it hypocritical that I am not concerned about the most powerful man, a billionaire, a man who has sued thousands of people and stiffed countless number of workers, that I don't empathize with him being unjustly examined? Let me tell you what I am concerned about. My brother was one of the lawyers who recently took the Habeus Corpus case to the Supreme Court. This was where the CIA was locking up "bad guys" in Guantanamo without telling us their names or their crimes. Why? Because our "allies", countries run by despots and tyrants, were cleaning house of political opponents and sending them to Guantanamo. They couldn't tell their names or charges because it would be an outrage. You still don't know them because they were discreetly released and sent abroad as a result of that trial. So when the CIA helps some despot take a peon, toss them in the dungeon and throw away the key without so much as telling us why, then yes, I see that as unrighteous. I do empathize. Sorry if I don't have empathy for some billionaire 4F who insults POWs and families of those KIA, who stiffs common workers, sues everyone he can think of, and is surrounded by thugs and scam artists.
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Old 03-16-2019, 11:01 AM   #5507
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Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
What you don't see in politics is far more important than what you do. The fact that she is receiving very mild rebukes in public is simply because the democrats don't want to offend her supporters. They understand that as foolish and idiotic some of the things she has done are, she still represents a number of people who would walk away from the Democratic party if they publicly rebuke her.

That said "money talks and BS walks" in politics. Amazon.com has money, they do the talking, Comey and Diblasio are listening, two very important democrats. No doubt Clinton and others are also listening. So let's see if AOC is opposed in the next election by a very well funded candidate who wins the Democratic nomination. That is when you will realize they put the knife in her back.



Again, the issue is will she be reelected? The democrats cannot risk offending Muslims, they are critical in elections decided by less than 3%. But that doesn't mean that behind the scenes they have already decided she must go. Again, let's see if she gets reelected? You might think that Muslims would rally behind her, but I doubt it. Her reelection will be very high profile and if she were funded by Islamic organizations it would become a major campaign issue, stir up more heated rhetoric, and bring negative publicity to a minority that does not want negative publicity.
I often hear from Trump voters that they voted for him because they thought Washington was broken and Trump would shake it all up ; drain the swamp and all.

And now they're criticizing AOC and Omar for doing that very same thing. Right for one, wrong for the other.
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Old 03-16-2019, 11:07 AM   #5508
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I often hear from Trump voters that they voted for him because they thought Washington was broken and Trump would shake it all up ; drain the swamp and all.

And now they're criticizing AOC and Omar for doing that very same thing. Right for one, wrong for the other.
Trump limits regulations and creates jobs.


AOC loves regulations and ends jobs.


Aren't they the same thing?
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Old 03-16-2019, 11:08 AM   #5509
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I often hear from Trump voters that they voted for him because they thought Washington was broken and Trump would shake it all up ; drain the swamp and all.

And now they're criticizing AOC and Omar for doing that very same thing. Right for one, wrong for the other.
It is good to be outside of the system, you are less compromised. But this is like fighting for the heavyweight title, you better be well trained.

AOC and Omar are idiots. They think that they alone are right and everyone else is wrong, everyone else is compromised, so they alone can speak the hard truths.

So AOC would have tens of thousands of Americans lose their jobs for her green plan which will not be a solution to anything. They don't deny it isn't a solution, yet she justifies it by saying "at least I want to do something". Fine, if that is how she feels she should be the first one to lose her job.

Omar is very clearly biased against Jews. She may not be "anti semitic" but instead of simply focusing on the law and trying to move US policy away from strongly supporting Israel, which is our ally, she chose instead to cast aspersions on virtually everyone in the US. If you do that you have no right to complain when they do it to you.

This is why I say they are idiots. They have stepped into the ring with heavyweights and made idiotic mistakes.
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Old 03-16-2019, 11:43 AM   #5510
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I guess I need to do a post mortem, why could I not see it, what was blinding my eyes?

I like your analogy to Pearl Harbor, that is very personal for me. My dad was 12 at the time and spent the day rowing sailors (mostly dead ones) from the Arizona. His house was less than 100 feet from where it was anchored (his old house is now a historical site). Of course he is not the heroic figure Trump is with his phony 4F, nor would I liken my grandfather to Trump either, both my father and grandfather were in the military and recognized a war hero even if he was captured or killed.

So why would we as a family become so naive, able to fall for this Fake news coup? Pretty insulting when you think about it, especially since my Dad got forced out because he refused to let the CIA set up shop in UPI. Fake news has been a very critical force to our family since 1977. Later he disagreed with the NYT handling of the reporting on JFK assassination, and again left. Fake news has been a very big deal in our family and yet here I am, so naive?

I get it, we have had Fake news since 1977 yet it takes CNN saying mean things about Trump for others to see it. So I am happy about that. It has been 42 years, but at least you can now see what I see and know that it matters.

Likewise the coup d'etat. That took place in 1963, so I am glad you finally figured that out. No one cared about the Box 13 scandal when I brought it up, but how do you think the CIA controls Johnson? Do what we say or we'll expose you are a fraud. That is one reason why I welcome the Mueller investigation, because no one is going to be able to bring down the whole "fruitless works of darkness" if they are a fraud.

But that is not the only reason. In the 60s my uncle's house was bombed by the KKK (Robert Kochtitzky). This was because he was standing with the black churches in Jackson, Ms. So our family has been in the center of the civil rights movement for virtually my whole life. I have seen many people approach this issue, most of them with the ministry of condemnation which does not yield righteousness, which is why 50 years later we still see bombings and shootings in churches, mosques, etc. My uncle understood the ministry of righteousness which includes reconciliation. If I hadn't been given a TKO I could tell you the difference, guess you'll have to google it for yourself. But one thing I do know from my experience, the ministry of condemnation is full of those who set themselves up as the judge and jury, deciding who is knocked out and who isn't.

We saw the Black Panthers, they went down a failed path of an eye for an eye, of being conquered by the evil. But who knows 50 years later you would think people would finally figure out this is not a path that leads to righteousness. But I also saw Martin Luther King Jr. and his "coarse jesting" and infidelity was detrimental to the movement. The NT says "be perfect" and he wasn't. Trump isn't either. So yes, I point this out because I know it will undermine anything else he wishes to do. For example Bill Belichik is a family friend, he went to the same university as my cousins and they would have him over to their house. Still I will point out that spygate and deflategate were both unrighteous and will damage his legacy, giving his haters ammunition.

But going back to your Pearl Harbor analogy, one outcome of that attack was the internment camps. No doubt people thought that was the patriotic thing to do. My dad didn't. Instead they figured out who the spy was. He was a butcher. All the admirals would call ahead when they were gonna be in port to order steaks. As a result the butcher (who was Japanese) knew when every ship was going to be in port. Rather than throw every Japanese in jail, find out the traitor and deal with him. Likewise with Trump, instead of falsely accusing him of being a traitor, lets be more precise in our dealing with sin. So since we both agree that the internment camps were unrighteous and foolish, and that they were similar to the false accusations made against Trump why did I support the Mueller investigation? Well, Warren was governor of California and supported the internment camps. That error no doubt influenced his being chosen for the Supreme Court (figured he'd be tough on the commies) yet that error no doubt shaped his opinion and his court ruled on transformative civil rights decisions.

Is it hypocritical that I am not concerned about the most powerful man, a billionaire, a man who has sued thousands of people and stiffed countless number of workers, that I don't empathize with him being unjustly examined? Let me tell you what I am concerned about. My brother was one of the lawyers who recently took the Habeus Corpus case to the Supreme Court. This was where the CIA was locking up "bad guys" in Guantanamo without telling us their names or their crimes. Why? Because our "allies", countries run by despots and tyrants, were cleaning house of political opponents and sending them to Guantanamo. They couldn't tell their names or charges because it would be an outrage. You still don't know them because they were discreetly released and sent abroad as a result of that trial. So when the CIA helps some despot take a peon, toss them in the dungeon and throw away the key without so much as telling us why, then yes, I see that as unrighteous. I do empathize. Sorry if I don't have empathy for some billionaire 4F who insults POWs and families of those KIA, who stiffs common workers, sues everyone he can think of, and is surrounded by thugs and scam artists.
I hope you feel better now.

And how many wrongs does it take to make it all right?

So . . . since all politicians are crooks and liars, even draft dodgers like Clinton and Trump, we need endless Special Prosecutors to undermine our duly elected Presidents. So there's nothing wrong with a deep state coup d'etat because Trump was a draft dodger? Now I get it!

There's just way too many generalizations here to make a decent case. Like Trump insults POW's and GoldStar families. No, he pushed back on one of each. Obviously if Trump hated the military like the Dems do, they would not support Trump. Obviously if McCain was not integral to the Russian Hoax, Trump would not have punched back at him either. Obviously if that one Muslim GoldStar dad had not spoken against Trump at the DNC, he would have been off limits.

Your post is so indicative of identity politics. Talk about drugs coming across the border, and Trump must be an evil racist and xenophobe. Talk about Trump's 4F deferment, and he is disqualified from the office. But how many other politicians had deferments? Hush! Don't talk about that! And Trump "stiffs" workers, but let's not talk about other Politicians who never ran a business in their life, or talk about all the workers who had jobs because of Trump. Must we then elect ones like AOC who has no record at all except bartending?

ZNP, too many tangents to reply to here. And I have no interest in discussing your family, lest I run the risk of insulting any of them. I'm sure they are all wonderful people. Let's not make this personal.

Remember for me it's all about policy. And justice. All the men of the Bible were seriously flawed sinners, but I still love them because of their message. I support Trump because I believe in his policies, not because he kisses babies. This media has put all of Trump's warts under the microscope, but never get the impression that other politicians were better because there was no microscope.
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Old 03-16-2019, 12:37 PM   #5511
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It is good to be outside of the system, you are less compromised. But this is like fighting for the heavyweight title, you better be well trained.

AOC and Omar are idiots. They think that they alone are right and everyone else is wrong, everyone else is compromised, so they alone can speak the hard truths.

So AOC would have tens of thousands of Americans lose their jobs for her green plan which will not be a solution to anything. They don't deny it isn't a solution, yet she justifies it by saying "at least I want to do something". Fine, if that is how she feels she should be the first one to lose her job.

Omar is very clearly biased against Jews. She may not be "anti semitic" but instead of simply focusing on the law and trying to move US policy away from strongly supporting Israel, which is our ally, she chose instead to cast aspersions on virtually everyone in the US. If you do that you have no right to complain when they do it to you.

This is why I say they are idiots. They have stepped into the ring with heavyweights and made idiotic mistakes.
Yes they are idealistic idiots. But they hold office and unlike you and me they wield power. And therefore they are forces to be dealt with.

And they will be dealt with. AIPAC will see to it by lining the pockets of the heavyweights. They're after those 3 stooges : AOC Omar, and the other Muslim congresswoman. If they're against Jews, Jews are against them.

And we know what the Jews are capable of. Just look at what they are doing to the Palestinians. Read your Bible. It's not uncommon for the Jews to be on the wrong side of God. Most of the Jews today are of the synagogue of Satan ... if Revelation holds true.
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Old 03-16-2019, 01:00 PM   #5512
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Remember for me it's all about policy.
Fine. The policy is moving forward from a world ruled by emperor's with the divine right to a constitutional democracy with an electorate that is educated, informed and led by their conscience. We are obviously somewhere between these two ends on a bridge. If you look where we started you can see that we have come a very long way indeed, on the other hand if you look at where we are headed we still have a long way to go.

However, the way is very clear -- Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. No one arrives there but by Him. If he was unjustly tried, then we should not expect anything different.

Yes, our presidents do not meet the standard, but they still need to be given the first chance. Just like David, the father let all the other sons appear before Samuel first, only after they had been given every chance did he bring in David.

If Trump is claiming to clean up the situation, then I am all for that. It is a very bold and ambitious claim. If it turns out he is completely incapable of cleaning up the situation it demonstrates that he was arrogant and a fool. You cannot run for office on a platform that the situation is corrupt and needs to be cleaned up ("drain the swamp") and then when you are elected complain that the situation is corrupt. I agree completely that the situation is corrupt. I agree completely that it needs to be cleaned up. I think I am the only one on this forum who has claimed 911 was an inside job. So as corrupt as you might claim it is, I obviously feel it is more corrupt. I blame the CIA for Fake news since 1977, so there is nothing new there. I blame the CIA for JFK's assassination and the coup d'etat. Now I can see a reasonable basis for debate 40 years ago, but not today. Documents have since been declassified from Nixon's administration which prove this was the case and they explain why Nixon had to resign rather than let his henchman take the fall.

The only value I see in what has happened with Trump is that the situation is becoming clearer for many more people to see.
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Old 03-16-2019, 05:45 PM   #5513
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If Trump is claiming to clean up the situation, then I am all for that. It is a very bold and ambitious claim. If it turns out he is completely incapable of cleaning up the situation it demonstrates that he was arrogant and a fool.
I cannot believe a learned man can say something like this. How many in history have only pointed us in the right direction, unable to move the masses one inch. Do we call them arrogant fools? For example, JFK was the first to see the dangers of Deep State, after watching the CIA show him up at the Bay of Pigs. Did history condemn him as an arrogant fool for attempting to bring the CIA under control? Yet his death has awakened many.
Quote:
You cannot run for office on a platform that the situation is corrupt and needs to be cleaned up ("drain the swamp") and then when you are elected complain that the situation is corrupt. I agree completely that the situation is corrupt. I agree completely that it needs to be cleaned up.
Trump was elected to fill Scalia's seat. Even you have agreed to that. Some have said that in two years Trump has accomplished an incredible amount. Just look at the courts. Thank you Harry Reid!

When I look at what has happened in the DOJ and the FBI, turning over entrenched Progressives, replacing them with honest constitutional professionals, I am amazed what he has done so far. We may yet see justice for Clinton, Comey, Lynch, McCabe, Baker, Strzok, and others. At this point we don't know who will face justice. How could Trump ever foresee what he was up against, until the players played their cards? How could Trump know that Sessions would be deceived into recusing himself, thus permitting the "Insurance Policy" to be exercised? Having never waded thru the swamp, how could Trump know how deep it was?

Trump moved the embassy to Jerusalem. Reduced red tape regulations. The US is energy independent! I could go on and on. In my mind Trump's biggest accomplishments are what he has actually done, after only hearing endless promises from other Presidents.
Quote:
I think I am the only one on this forum who has claimed 911 was an inside job. So as corrupt as you might claim it is, I obviously feel it is more corrupt.
My wife and brother told me that for years, long before you did. But you added detail. Nice job. I should have listened to my brother about the Bush's too. You helped there too.
Quote:
I blame the CIA for Fake news since 1977, so there is nothing new there. I blame the CIA for JFK's assassination and the coup d'etat. Now I can see a reasonable basis for debate 40 years ago, but not today. Documents have since been declassified from Nixon's administration which prove this was the case and they explain why Nixon had to resign rather than let his henchman take the fall.
Fake News seemed to effect only certain news stories because the facts were hidden from the Press. Watergate became news because Mark Felt got slighted by Nixon, otherwise we would never have lived thru it. Maybe Trump is still alive based on what was learned from the Kennedy's deaths.
Quote:
The only value I see in what has happened with Trump is that the situation is becoming clearer for many more people to see.
And with this comment, we can both agree.
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Old 03-17-2019, 07:43 AM   #5514
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Yes they are idealistic idiots. But they hold office and unlike you and me they wield power. And therefore they are forces to be dealt with.

And they will be dealt with. AIPAC will see to it by lining the pockets of the heavyweights. They're after those 3 stooges : AOC Omar, and the other Muslim congresswoman. If they're against Jews, Jews are against them.

And we know what the Jews are capable of. Just look at what they are doing to the Palestinians. Read your Bible. It's not uncommon for the Jews to be on the wrong side of God. Most of the Jews today are of the synagogue of Satan ... if Revelation holds true.
...said the Serpent with one fork of his tongue.
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Old 03-17-2019, 08:16 AM   #5515
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...said the Serpent with one fork of his tongue.
Well Mel Porter did tell the saints to stay away from me because, I was a serpent that would bite them and poison them. Your post reveals that, you clearly were one that he told. So ... I've been a serpent for a long time ... but maybe lost that epithet when Mel passed (RIP) epitaph : Naming of Serpents.

But it did make me bust out laughing. Thanks for that. Ur a peach. You've been bitten ... er ah, wormed.
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Old 03-17-2019, 01:37 PM   #5516
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Well Mel Porter did tell the saints to stay away from me because, I was a serpent that would bite them and poison them. Your post reveals that, you clearly were one that he told. So ... I've been a serpent for a long time ... but maybe lost that epithet when Mel passed (RIP) epitaph : Naming of Serpents.

But it did make me bust out laughing. Thanks for that. Ur a peach. You've been bitten ... er ah, wormed.
You went deep on that one bro. I thought you would merely find it funny. I must have struck a nerve. I was referring to what I thought was your use of irony and reductio ad absurdum in the post I was responding to. Maybe I was mistaken and you really believe all you said.
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Old 03-17-2019, 01:42 PM   #5517
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You went deep on that one bro. I must have struck a nerve. I was referring to what I thought was your use of irony and reductio ad absurdum. Maybe I was mistaken and you really believe all you said.
More the latter, than former. AIPAC is gunning for them. And history of modern Israel reveals they can be ruthless.
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Old 03-18-2019, 10:42 AM   #5518
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More the latter, than former. AIPAC is gunning for them. And history of modern Israel reveals they can be ruthless.
Let's not forget that you called the congresswomen "idiots" and "stooges" for making essentially the same observations and claimed they were against the Jews. Are those criticisms better, smarter or truer when they come from you? Or are you an idiot, stooge and against the Jews too? Porter's gone. There's nobody here but us chickens.
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Old 03-18-2019, 12:55 PM   #5519
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Let's not forget that you called the congresswomen "idiots" and "stooges" for making essentially the same observations and claimed they were against the Jews. Are those criticisms better, smarter or truer when they come from you? Or are you an idiot, stooge and against the Jews too? Porter's gone. There's nobody here but us chickens.
I like them. But it's hard so far but to conclude that they are young and idealistic ... therefore idiots by that standard. Sorry if I offended your sensibilities for them.
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Old 03-18-2019, 02:04 PM   #5520
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I like them. But it's hard so far but to conclude that they are young and idealistic ... therefore idiots by that standard. Sorry if I offended your sensibilities for them.
Yeah I couldn't follow a few stitches in your tapestry of self-contradiction. Should I have known immediately that you liked the congresswomen when you called them idiots and stooges? Based on what they've said so far I don't agree that those congresswomen are against the Jews. I mean is anybody that criticizes America against it? Maybe they're trying to help by criticizing to call for improvement. Why then would the fact that someone criticized Israel and the AIPAC mean they're against the Jews? Or were you just doing your surreptitious worming thing. Sometimes I can't tell.
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Old 03-18-2019, 06:56 PM   #5521
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Yeah I couldn't follow a few stitches in your tapestry of self-contradiction. Should I have known immediately that you liked the congresswomen when you called them idiots and stooges? Based on what they've said so far I don't agree that those congresswomen are against the Jews. I mean is anybody that criticizes America against it? Maybe they're trying to help by criticizing to call for improvement. Why then would the fact that someone criticized Israel and the AIPAC mean they're against the Jews? Or were you just doing your surreptitious worming thing. Sometimes I can't tell.
No worming, at least concerning this. As I have seen it, bringing up anything that Israel is doing wrong, is defended by branding it anti-semitic.

And as far as I can determine they're just calling for equal human rights for all, including the Palestinians. But to speak for the Palestinians is considered to be speaking against Israel. It's interesting that it's seen that way, it indicates that what Israel is doing is wrong.

Israel is willing to use the Torah to claim the land, but they look away when the Torah tells the to love their neighbor.
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Old 03-18-2019, 09:38 PM   #5522
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No worming, at least concerning this. As I have seen it, bringing up anything that Israel is doing wrong, is defended by branding it anti-semitic.

And as far as I can determine they're just calling for equal human rights for all, including the Palestinians. But to speak for the Palestinians is considered to be speaking against Israel. It's interesting that it's seen that way, it indicates that what Israel is doing is wrong.

Israel is willing to use the Torah to claim the land, but they look away when the Torah tells the to love their neighbor.
Equal rights for all? Why is it that Palestine provides no jobs for Israelis, yet Israel provides so many jobs to them?

Why is it that Palestine allows Hamas to use their homes to shoot rockets at Israel?

Why is it that the only jobs in Palestine are digging tunnels to attack Israel?

You sure have a crooked sense of justice. The Torah never commanded them to invite their enemies to rape their wives and kill their children. The Palestinians who act like real neighbors, get treated very well by Israel. Unfortunately, their own people kill them for acting like neighbors.

Awareness, you are a victim of Palestinian propaganda. So sad. It would be better for you to remain neutral towards Israel, than to side with Palestine.
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Old 03-19-2019, 07:18 AM   #5523
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Equal rights for all? Why is it that Palestine provides no jobs for Israelis, yet Israel provides so many jobs to them?

Why is it that Palestine allows Hamas to use their homes to shoot rockets at Israel?

Why is it that the only jobs in Palestine are digging tunnels to attack Israel?

You sure have a crooked sense of justice. The Torah never commanded them to invite their enemies to rape their wives and kill their children. The Palestinians who act like real neighbors, get treated very well by Israel. Unfortunately, their own people kill them for acting like neighbors.

Awareness, you are a victim of Palestinian propaganda. So sad. It would be better for you to remain neutral towards Israel, than to side with Palestine.
Yeah, love your neighbor. Trap them in in Gaza, and pluck them off at will, even killing children. That's the way to treat them neighborly.

That's not propaganda. And by the way, you prove my point. Say something for the Palestinians and you are against Israel. I don't know, but, you must be a Christian Zionist.

And I'm for both the Palestinians and Israel. There's wrong on both sides, but who has the overwhelming power? and who is the underdog?
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Old 03-19-2019, 08:20 AM   #5524
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Yeah, love your neighbor. Trap them in in Gaza, and pluck them off at will, even killing children. That's the way to treat them neighborly.

That's not propaganda. And by the way, you prove my point. Say something for the Palestinians and you are against Israel. I don't know, but, you must be a Christian Zionist.

And I'm for both the Palestinians and Israel. There's wrong on both sides, but who has the overwhelming power? and who is the underdog?
It's Israel who is trapped behind walls. Walls they had to build to keep murdering animals out. But the walls have doors for good people.

The Palestinians are connected to 2 Billion Muslims who hate Israel, and who have vowed to exterminate them all. The U.N. is filled with Muslam countries, and is very anti-Israel. So I would say that Muslams have all the power. Israel is just a spec on the map surrounded by a sea of enemies.

Palestine belongs to Israel because they had it for thousands of years. The Gaza Muslams are occupying their land just as Istanbul Muslams are occupying Constantinople in Asia Minor, the long-time center of Orthodox Christianity. Today Muslams are illegally occupying all the Bible lands once owned by Christians. They stole the lands and murdered its occupants. Case in point was the Turkish genocide of Armenia, the first Christian country.

The real truth is that Muslams have long been eliminating Jews and Christians all over the Mideast, Africa, and Asia. They are a slaughtering people, forcing their captives to convert or be killed. These murders regularly occur in Egypt, Pakistan, Syria, Nigeria, Indonesia, etc. Nearly every Muslam country murders Jews and Christians. Their only hope is to trust in God.

I would suggest you read a little world history before you make naive comments on this forum. Skip the propaganda sections in the MSM.
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Old 03-19-2019, 08:55 AM   #5525
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Yeah, love your neighbor. Trap them in in Gaza, and pluck them off at will, even killing children. That's the way to treat them neighborly.

That's not propaganda. And by the way, you prove my point. Say something for the Palestinians and you are against Israel. I don't know, but, you must be a Christian Zionist.

And I'm for both the Palestinians and Israel. There's wrong on both sides, but who has the overwhelming power? and who is the underdog?
In 1948 the Palestinians could have made a wonderful peace treaty in which they completely shared Israel as equals. Instead they chose to fight. It seemed at the time that Israel would not have a chance. All the way to 1967 the Palestinians seemed to have an overwhelming position, Israel surrounded by enemies more powerful than them. The Palestinians should have chosen to be reconciled, but they chose violence.

Today Israel is in the overwhelming position, this is the best opportunity for them to have a negotiated reconciliation, but instead they have taken the same route as the Palestinians. To be fully fair to the Israelis they could point out that if they did negotiate peace there would still be terrorists who were not happy with the outcome. But the Palestinians were in that same boat in 1948.
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Old 03-19-2019, 09:48 AM   #5526
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In 1948 the Palestinians could have made a wonderful peace treaty in which they completely shared Israel as equals. Instead they chose to fight. It seemed at the time that Israel would not have a chance. All the way to 1967 the Palestinians seemed to have an overwhelming position, Israel surrounded by enemies more powerful than them. The Palestinians should have chosen to be reconciled, but they chose violence.

Today Israel is in the overwhelming position, this is the best opportunity for them to have a negotiated reconciliation, but instead they have taken the same route as the Palestinians. To be fully fair to the Israelis they could point out that if they did negotiate peace there would still be terrorists who were not happy with the outcome. But the Palestinians were in that same boat in 1948.
Had they "shared their country" as you suggest, they would now have rocket launchers on the balconies in Tel Aviv.

If there is one lesson that Israel has learned during her long history, it's that there can be no negotiations with terrorists. The PLO was a terrorist organization only to be replaced by Hamas, something far worse. Where is the condemnation on Iran for being the worst state sponsor of terror? Today Lebanon, Syria, Gaza, and the West Bank are not run by Palestinians, but by the Ayatollah of Iran.
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Old 03-19-2019, 10:01 AM   #5527
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It's Israel who is trapped behind walls. Walls they had to build to keep murdering animals out. But the walls have doors for good people.

The Palestinians are connected to 2 Billion Muslims who hate Israel, and who have vowed to exterminate them all. The U.N. is filled with Muslam countries, and is very anti-Israel. So I would say that Muslams have all the power. Israel is just a spec on the map surrounded by a sea of enemies.
Then I guess you are happy that we have made Israel one of the most powerful nations in the world, even letting them have nukes.

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Palestine belongs to Israel because they had it for thousands of years.
No, before the British Mandate the Palestinians were there for 900 years. More than once I've showed the maps of Israel taking more and more land since 1948. As I stated, they follow their Torah to claim the land, but ignore the Torah when it says love God and your neighbor.

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The Gaza Muslams are occupying their land just as Istanbul Muslams are occupying Constantinople in Asia Minor, the long-time center of Orthodox Christianity. Today Muslams are illegally occupying all the Bible lands once owned by Christians. They stole the lands and murdered its occupants. Case in point was the Turkish genocide of Armenia, the first Christian country.
There's not one bad side and one good side. Both sides have both. If all 1.2 billion Muslims were bad we, and Israel, would be in big trouble. Not all Muslims are bad, and not all Jews are good ... and neither are all Christians, so called.
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Old 03-19-2019, 10:22 AM   #5528
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Then I guess you are happy that we have made Israel one of the most powerful nations in the world, even letting them have nukes.
Happy? False conclusion. As usual.

I long for the day coming soon when all nukes will be gone, eliminated by the King of kings.
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No, before the British Mandate the Palestinians were there for 900 years. More than once I've showed the maps of Israel taking more and more land since 1948. As I stated, they follow their Torah to claim the land, but ignore the Torah when it says love God and your neighbor.
The Palestinian Muslams stole the land of Israel by slaughtering her original inhabitants. They even build their Mosques on the ruins of her Temple.

Sorry bro, but you never seem to mention all the good that Israel does for the Palestinians. You ought to read those stories too. But you won't find these stories in your British rags, like Daily Mail.

Since you don't like the way Jacksonian Democrats drove Native Indians from their lands, you should be doubly upset with what these Muslams did to the original inhabitants of Judea and Jerusalem.
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There's not one bad side and one good side. Both sides have both. If all 1.2 billion Muslims were bad we, and Israel, would be in big trouble. Not all Muslims are bad, and not all Jews are good ... and neither are all Christians, so called.
If I break into your house and attack you, and you then beat me up, are we now both bad?

Ever hear of something called the right of self-defense?
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Old 03-19-2019, 11:19 AM   #5529
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Had they "shared their country" as you suggest, they would now have rocket launchers on the balconies in Tel Aviv.

If there is one lesson that Israel has learned during her long history, it's that there can be no negotiations with terrorists. The PLO was a terrorist organization only to be replaced by Hamas, something far worse. Where is the condemnation on Iran for being the worst state sponsor of terror? Today Lebanon, Syria, Gaza, and the West Bank are not run by Palestinians, but by the Ayatollah of Iran.
The PLO does not represent all Palestinians and did not exist in 1948. It was founded in 1964. The use of terrorism didn't begin until it was clear they were not going to overpower Israel.

When the Jews were given Israel by the UN there was no mention of kicking out the inhabitants or making them non citizens. Allowing everyone to continue living there as citizens was an option, it could have happened and had they known the way of peace they might have avoided 70+ years of war, terrorism, and bloodshed. However, the choice for war was first made by the Palestinians who did not want to share the land with the Jews.
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Old 03-19-2019, 01:23 PM   #5530
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The PLO does not represent all Palestinians and did not exist in 1948. It was founded in 1964. The use of terrorism didn't begin until it was clear they were not going to overpower Israel.

When the Jews were given Israel by the UN there was no mention of kicking out the inhabitants or making them non citizens. Allowing everyone to continue living there as citizens was an option, it could have happened and had they known the way of peace they might have avoided 70+ years of war, terrorism, and bloodshed. However, the choice for war was first made by the Palestinians who did not want to share the land with the Jews.
Exactly. Proving that Israel was never given the opportunity for peace. Their only chance for peace was to all die, as they did in Poland at Nazi furnaces.

Terrorism existed in Israel long before Yes Sir Arafat came along with the PLO. There have been insiders working with foreign powers since the days of the first Zionist Kibbutzim early in the 20th century.

Go read the whole story please.

And Israel has every right to build their new temple on the site of the original temple.
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Old 03-19-2019, 02:36 PM   #5531
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Exactly. Proving that Israel was never given the opportunity for peace. Their only chance for peace was to all die, as they did in Poland at Nazi furnaces.

Terrorism existed in Israel long before Yes Sir Arafat came along with the PLO. There have been insiders working with foreign powers since the days of the first Zionist Kibbutzim early in the 20th century.

Go read the whole story please.

And Israel has every right to build their new temple on the site of the original temple.
You are obviously confusing me with someone else.

However, I disagree with the idea that they were "never given an opportunity for peace". Peacemakers are likened to "sons of God". It is a very difficult thing to do, just ask Nelson Mandela. They have an opportunity today for peace.
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Old 03-19-2019, 02:37 PM   #5532
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The Siena College poll of registered voters in New York state found that 67 percent of those surveyed said the internet retailer's decision last month was detrimental to New York.

AOC does not speak for New Yorkers. Let this marinate for another year and let's see if anyone votes for her again.
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Old 03-19-2019, 06:17 PM   #5533
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You are obviously confusing me with someone else.

However, I disagree with the idea that they were "never given an opportunity for peace". Peacemakers are likened to "sons of God". It is a very difficult thing to do, just ask Nelson Mandela. They have an opportunity today for peace.
Perhaps you are mistaken to believe that all such "peace" is of God?

The peacemakers in Matt 5 are likened to "sons of God," that is true. This message is to the church, to us as brothers of our heavenly Father.

But His message to Israel in not the same, especially with those sworn to destroy them. Israel abides by the Law and the Prophets. We abide by the Gospels and the Epistles.
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Old 03-19-2019, 06:19 PM   #5534
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The Siena College poll of registered voters in New York state found that 67 percent of those surveyed said the internet retailer's decision last month was detrimental to New York.

AOC does not speak for New Yorkers. Let this marinate for another year and let's see if anyone votes for her again.
Perhaps AOC now only cares that she speaks for Millennial Socialists.
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Old 03-19-2019, 07:07 PM   #5535
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Perhaps AOC now only cares that she speaks for Millennial Socialists.
Well let's see if NY continues to pay for her to speak for them at the next election.
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Old 03-20-2019, 09:54 PM   #5536
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Meanwhile in the demon-haunted world...

http://deadstate.org/pat-robertson-y...rses-upon-you/
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Old 03-20-2019, 10:33 PM   #5537
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Meanwhile in the demon haunted world...

http://deadstate.org/pat-robertson-y...rses-upon-you/
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“But nevertheless, a statue of a false god in your garden — I don’t think that’s appropriate,” Robertson said. “Yes, it’ll bring curses upon you, alright?”
Robertson is either ignorant or his religious prejudices have gotten the better of him. Buddha never claimed to be a god. Buddha wasn't a Jesus, a Savior figure, or anything like that.

In fact, he's wasn't even smart. It took him 30 odd years to realize that life is a suffering. Other than that, I think Jesus and Siddhārtha Gautama would get along just fine. And ironically some Buddhists act more Christian than some fanatic self righteous Christians ... of which, from what I've seen out of Robertson over the years, includes him.
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Old 03-21-2019, 05:45 AM   #5538
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Here is a sample of the LCM teaching on politics and the church:




According to Nee the Bible teaches that it is wrong for a Christian to hold political office. So, professing Christians should not run for or hold public office or work for the government. The business of government should be left to unbelievers.

I worked for the State of Florida for 37 years. It never occurred to me that I was acting unchristian. How about that?
Robertson is either ignorant or his religious prejudices have gotten the better of him. Buddha never claimed to be a god. Buddha wasn't a Jesus, a Savior figure, or anything like that. -- Awareness referencing Post by Zeek

I thought this thread was about the NT teaching concerning Christians working in government. If the thread is about what it means to "Act unchristian" shouldn't that be a different thread? What does Robertson's views on idolatry have to do with this thread?
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Old 03-21-2019, 05:59 AM   #5539
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Robertson is either ignorant or his religious prejudices have gotten the better of him. Buddha never claimed to be a god. Buddha wasn't a Jesus, a Savior figure, or anything like that.

In fact, he's wasn't even smart. It took him 30 odd years to realize that life is a suffering. Other than that, I think Jesus and Siddhārtha Gautama would get along just fine. And ironically some Buddhists act more Christian than some fanatic self righteous Christians ... of which, from what I've seen out of Robertson over the years, includes him.
Never thought I would see "Christians" standing up for Buddha idols.

I guess that's what we get when some posters love to read their anti-Christian rags.

And "some Buddhists act more Christian ..." awareness, have you really made this your life goal -- to point out Christian "bad behavior?"

Being a Christian is to acknowledge your own bad behavior.
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Old 03-21-2019, 08:19 AM   #5540
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Never thought I would see "Christians" standing up for Buddha idols.

I guess that's what we get when some posters love to read their anti-Christian rags.

And "some Buddhists act more Christian ..." awareness, have you really made this your life goal -- to point out Christian "bad behavior?"

Being a Christian is to acknowledge your own bad behavior.
You talk like all Christians are perfect. Or, they can sin, confess, do it again and confess, do it again and confess, over and over again.

You speak like a true Catholic. But aren't they 50% dreaded liberals?
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Old 03-21-2019, 08:37 AM   #5541
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You talk like all Christians are perfect. Or, they can sin, confess, do it again and confess, do it again and confess, over and over again.

You speak like a true Catholic.
You talk like non Christians are "better Christians"?!
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Old 03-21-2019, 12:12 PM   #5542
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BREAKING NEWS: Trump says U.S. should recognize Golan Heights as part of Israel as Netanyahu accuses Iran of trying to set up terror network there — and prepares for White House visit Monday

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ts-Israel.html
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Old 03-21-2019, 11:11 PM   #5543
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Pompeo suggests God sent Trump to save Israel
"As a Christian, I certainly believe that's possible," the secretary of state said when asked whether the president had an explicitly divine mission. "I am confident that the Lord is at work here."

Trump's recognition of Israel's Sovereignty over the Golan Heights was a smart political move since the largest constituency of his base are white Evangelical Christians who favor Zionism because of the way they read Bible prophesies.


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...israel-n986136
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Old 03-22-2019, 06:25 AM   #5544
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Mexicans Are Stealing Border Wall Materials, Using Them For Home Security

This doesn't make sense, if Mexico is paying for the wall how can this be stealing?
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Old 03-22-2019, 06:33 AM   #5545
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Pompeo suggests God sent Trump to save Israel
"As a Christian, I certainly believe that's possible," the secretary of state said when asked whether the president had an explicitly divine mission. "I am confident that the Lord is at work here."
One thing that continually amazes me about Trump is that all the opposition only deepens his resolve to stay true to his convictions. All recent Presidents (Clinton, Bush, Obama) gave lip service to their support of Israel, e.g. moving our Embassy to Jerusalem, only to wilt when faced with the actual decision.

Quote:
Trump's recognition of Israel's Sovereignty over the Golan Heights was a smart political move since the largest constituency of his base are white Evangelical Christians who favor Zionism because of the way they read Bible prophesies.
Once again zeek puts himself at odds with Evangelical Christians, going so far as to suggest that support for Trump is racially motivated.

I would suggest to the contrary, that Evangelical Christian support for Trump is based on his policies. Evangelical Christians, like myself, were highly skeptical of Trump's conservatism until he put forth his source list for SCOTUS nominations. Never have I seen a President (since Ronald Reagan) fight so hard for the security and safety of the American people, especially at the Southern border.
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Old 03-22-2019, 07:05 AM   #5546
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One thing that continually amazes me about Trump is that all the opposition only deepens his resolve to stay true to his convictions. All recent Presidents (Clinton, Bush, Obama) gave lip service to their support of Israel, e.g. moving our Embassy to Jerusalem, only to wilt when faced with the actual decision.
That is an accurate assessment.

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Once again zeek puts himself at odds with Evangelical Christians, going so far as to suggest that support for Trump is racially motivated.

I would suggest to the contrary, that Evangelical Christian support for Trump is based on his policies. Evangelical Christians, like myself, were highly skeptical of Trump's conservatism until he put forth his source list for SCOTUS nominations. Never have I seen a President (since Ronald Reagan) fight so hard for the security and safety of the American people, especially at the Southern border.
I also found it shocking to think that only now, with Trump, are Evangelical Christians being represented even though they represent the single biggest block of voters in this country. The assertion that there is something wrong with a very large block of voters being represented in a democracy is an astounding assertion from Zeek.
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Old 03-22-2019, 10:18 AM   #5547
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I also found it shocking to think that only now, with Trump, are Evangelical Christians being represented even though they represent the single biggest block of voters in this country. The assertion that there is something wrong with a very large block of voters being represented in a democracy is an astounding assertion from Zeek.
I find the continual media claim that "Trump is dividing the country" to be both laughable and disingenuous.

This single most divisive issue of this generation is the Democrats unceasing support for unlimited abortions. The new Chair of the DNC Perez even stated their Party would never again support a pro-life candidate. It is the protection of the most vulnerable members of society that divides us.

Since Roe was thrust upon us, I have never nor would I ever vote for a Democratic candidate, regardless of how qualified he/she was, or how bad the Republican candidate was. It's all about principle for me, and if the slaughter of the unborn doesn't bother a candidate, that's quite telling to me about his/her character. In this regard I am definitely not alone.
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Old 03-22-2019, 03:29 PM   #5548
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I find the continual media claim that "Trump is dividing the country" to be both laughable and disingenuous.

This single most divisive issue of this generation is the Democrats unceasing support for unlimited abortions. The new Chair of the DNC Perez even stated their Party would never again support a pro-life candidate. It is the protection of the most vulnerable members of society that divides us.

Since Roe was thrust upon us, I have never nor would I ever vote for a Democratic candidate, regardless of how qualified he/she was, or how bad the Republican candidate was. It's all about principle for me, and if the slaughter of the unborn doesn't bother a candidate, that's quite telling to me about his/her character. In this regard I am definitely not alone.
I agree with this.
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Old 03-24-2019, 03:44 PM   #5549
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Mueller's report concludes that there is no evidence that Trump's campaign colluded with the Russians.

Wow, I bet all those people who were so sure that Mueller was going to find something, even if he had to make something up, bet they feel pretty sheepish now.

I am happy. I suspect the great secret in Trump's tax return is that he is not nearly as wealthy as he claims and that could jeopardize some of his loans with his banks. I feel better knowing that we checked to see if there was some kind of collusion and I am relieved there wasn't.

As for political fallout I will reserve that for whatever the Democrats do over the next 2 years.
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Old 03-24-2019, 05:29 PM   #5550
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Wow, I bet all those people who were so sure that Mueller was going to find something, even if he had to make something up, bet they feel pretty sheepish now.
Based on what I have seen so far, I don't think that would be a safe bet for you.
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Old 03-24-2019, 06:10 PM   #5551
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Based on what I have seen so far, I don't think that would be a safe bet for you.
I was being facetious. It looks like political mudslinging about to go ballistic.
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Old 03-24-2019, 06:38 PM   #5552
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Mueller Was Trump’s Nemesis—Now He’s His Greatest Asset
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Old 03-25-2019, 06:27 AM   #5553
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The Democrats are in a very weak position. Many ran on a platform of examining, prosecuting, and impeaching Trump. If they do not fulfill that promise they will completely turn off those that voted for them.

On the other hand the more they pursue a political agenda of mud slinging the more the swing voters will despise the Democrats.

It is a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation.
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Old 03-25-2019, 07:20 AM   #5554
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William Barr has given us his own spin on Mueller's report. He should release it to the American people so that we can make up our own minds. Even from what he gave us, Mueller did not exonerate Trump on the obstruction of justice issue. Of course Trump has already lied about that saying that the report was a complete and total exoneration. Anyway I'm withholding judgment till I actually get a chance to read the report for myself. If Barr won't release it I assume he's hiding something to protect Trump
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Old 03-25-2019, 07:53 AM   #5555
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William Barr has given us his own spin on Mueller's report. He should release it to the American people so that we can make up our own minds. Even from what he gave us, Mueller did not exonerate Trump on the obstruction of justice issue. Of course Trump has already lied about that saying that the report was a complete and total exoneration. Anyway I'm withholding judgment till I actually get a chance to read the report for myself. If Barr won't release it I assume he's hiding something to protect Trump
You clamored on Mueller's behalf for months. If Muller had evidence of obstruction of justice against Trump, he would have filed charges. Now that it came out, you still are not satisfied.

Let me guarantee that when Barr releases more information, you won't be satisfied with that either.

You have believed a mountain of lies, my friend, from the media. I have been trying to tell you that for months. Perhaps you might have listened were I not one of those dreaded "evangelical Christians." Perhaps not.

What Muller did, by not exonerating Trump, is prosecutorial misconduct. Muller and his team, especially Andrew Weissman, have a long history of such misconduct. Don't believe me, look into it for yourself.
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Old 03-25-2019, 08:16 AM   #5556
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William Barr has given us his own spin on Mueller's report. He should release it to the American people so that we can make up our own minds. Even from what he gave us, Mueller did not exonerate Trump on the obstruction of justice issue. Of course Trump has already lied about that saying that the report was a complete and total exoneration. Anyway I'm withholding judgment till I actually get a chance to read the report for myself. If Barr won't release it I assume he's hiding something to protect Trump
The Democrats are in power, Congress ordered the investigation, they should have complete access to the report and to Mueller. However, just like the fiasco with Kavanaugh, I don't agree with the total report being made public. If the Democrats see something that is "impeachable" then pursue it and that will be released to the public. If they see something that is indictable once he is no longer president then pursue that when he is no longer president. But if they begin with a goal of looking for collusion and then turn it into an opportunity to throw mud, that would be a very ugly use of taxpayer money akin to the McCarthy hearings.
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Old 03-25-2019, 01:09 PM   #5557
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William Barr has given us his own spin on Mueller's report. He should release it to the American people so that we can make up our own minds. Even from what he gave us, Mueller did not exonerate Trump on the obstruction of justice issue. Of course Trump has already lied about that saying that the report was a complete and total exoneration. Anyway I'm withholding judgment till I actually get a chance to read the report for myself. If Barr won't release it I assume he's hiding something to protect Trump
If there's no matters of national security to protect, for transparency sake it should be. What's in the dark should be brought into the light.
However if there's still nothing to be seen, I would expect the House Majority not to be satisfied. The next two years will be spent with investigation after investigation. Collusion has now pivoted to obstruction. Even then where's the obstruction.
Do you want to continue going down the road of making tax returns an issue? I'd sure like to see it for all of congress. How do politicians with a $170,000+ a year salary parlay that into becoming multi millionaires?
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Old 03-25-2019, 01:29 PM   #5558
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If there's no matters of national security to protect, for transparency sake it should be. What's in the dark should be brought into the light.
However if there's still nothing to be seen, I would expect the House Majority not to be satisfied. The next two years will be spent with investigation after investigation. Collusion has now pivoted to obstruction. Even then where's the obstruction.
Do you want to continue going down the road of making tax returns an issue? I'd sure like to see it for all of congress. How do politicians with a $170,000+ a year salary parlay that into becoming multi millionaires?
It is not simply a matter of national security. Do we really want Congress to authorize a $12 million dollar investigation with no other national interest other than to try and dig dirt on a political rival. If they allow that then you can be sure congress will devolve into a mud slinging contest. Doesn't matter who gets elected to what.

Think about Kavanaugh. If the woman had a concern she should definitely have brought it to the committee, but if it was simply "he said, she said" without any additional evidence it should have been done closed door and not become the circus that it did.

This entire investigation appears to be payback for Whitewater, which in turn appears to have been payback for Watergate.
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Old 03-25-2019, 02:01 PM   #5559
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Is there some divine justice here?

At the same time Trump is with P.M. Netanyahu recognizing the Golan Heights, creepy porn lawyer Michael Avenatti is busted for attempting to extort $Millions from Nike over the pay-to-play "Varsity Blues" scandal. Many of those indicted in the scandal, like Felicity Huffman, were vocal critics of Trump.

Pretty incredible turn of events to fulfill Jehovah's prophetic words:
"I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you." -- Genesis 12:3
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Old 03-25-2019, 02:05 PM   #5560
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If there's no matters of national security to protect, for transparency sake it should be. What's in the dark should be brought into the light.
However if there's still nothing to be seen, I would expect the House Majority not to be satisfied. The next two years will be spent with investigation after investigation. Collusion has now pivoted to obstruction. Even then where's the obstruction.
Do you want to continue going down the road of making tax returns an issue? I'd sure like to see it for all of congress. How do politicians with a $170,000+ a year salary parlay that into becoming multi millionaires?
Good question! Clinton? Obama?

And what about that not-so-secretive Congressional "Slush Fund" to pay off the victims of sexual abuse.
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Old 03-26-2019, 12:51 PM   #5561
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It is not simply a matter of national security. Do we really want Congress to authorize a $12 million dollar investigation with no other national interest other than to try and dig dirt on a political rival. If they allow that then you can be sure congress will devolve into a mud slinging contest. Doesn't matter who gets elected to what.

Think about Kavanaugh. If the woman had a concern she should definitely have brought it to the committee, but if it was simply "he said, she said" without any additional evidence it should have been done closed door and not become the circus that it did.

This entire investigation appears to be payback for Whitewater, which in turn appears to have been payback for Watergate.
That's the direction the house of Representatives will be taking the next two years. Try to dig up dirt on President Trump through various committees. Surely if they go back far enough, there is bound to be jaywalking in there somewhere. But at what cost?
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Old 03-26-2019, 12:56 PM   #5562
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Good question! Clinton? Obama?

And what about that not-so-secretive Congressional "Slush Fund" to pay off the victims of sexual abuse.
By the time Obama left office his wealth was estimate at 20 million. Based on presidential salary alone it would have been 3.2 million.
Mr No Name his wealth was estimated around 200 million before passing last August.
Former Speaker Ryan in the tens of millions
Senator Feinstein much the same in the tens of millions.
I think the question is who isn't a millionaire? I was surprised to learn Senator Graham wasn't. As for the newcomers to senate and the house, give them a term or two and they'll become millionaires in hardly any time at all.
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Old 03-26-2019, 03:14 PM   #5563
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They are always coming up with allegations or
presenting things that look like Trump or family
members have done bad stuff. It always seem
to come to nothing. So they will continue this
and save “bomb shells” as it is close to election
similiar to the Kavanaugh caper.
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Old 03-26-2019, 03:21 PM   #5564
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That's the direction the house of Representatives will be taking the next two years. Try to dig up dirt on President Trump through various committees. Surely if they go back far enough, there is bound to be jaywalking in there somewhere. But at what cost?
He is a real estate developer, pretty sure you'll find more than jaywalking, especially given the proclivity of his associates to commit felonies.

I am not in any way suggesting that if Trump were investigated thoroughly we wouldn't find actions that were embarrassing.

What I am saying is I don't want this to be part of the gauntlet every President has to run, a 2 year special counsel investigation with a price tag above $10 million.
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Old 03-26-2019, 03:55 PM   #5565
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He is a real estate developer, pretty sure you'll find more than jaywalking, especially given the proclivity of his associates to commit felonies.
And you have just bought into the deception. It goes like this . . .

My next door neighbor went to jail for drugs and gun charges resulting from an opioid addiction. Then some hater comes along and casts suspicions on my reputation saying, "these allegations must be true especially given the proclivity of Ohio's neighbors to commit felonies."

There you have it, folks! Time to leak another story about Ohio to the Press!

Take Manafort for example, who apparently was Muller's biggest "prize." Manafort was convicted of tax fraud for 15 years before he ever worked for Trump. During "normal" times, IRS auditors force tax cheats like Manafort to pay back taxes, along with substantial penalties and interest. No reason to crowd the prisons, folks, when the IRS can give out extra bonus checks.

How is Trump supposed to vet someone like Manafort who has issues with back taxes? Manafort worked with the Podesta brothers for years, and came on board with campaign experience. Trump never had the well-slicked apparatus that Hillary had, and he bungled thru numerous miscues. Every new business has the same issues. Do you think the Podesta's paid all of their taxes? Any CPA can tell you that every business owner can be audited knowing how complicated tax law is.

I'm all for people paying their taxes. But lets apply the law fairly. Blind justice eh? How about Roger Stone? 21 agents with night vision and automatic weapons to wake him in a pre-dawn raid? They took out Osama Bin Hiding with less tactical gear!
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Old 03-26-2019, 04:12 PM   #5566
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And you have just bought into the deception. It goes like this . . .

My next door neighbor went to jail for drugs and gun charges resulting from an opioid addiction. Then some hater comes along and casts suspicions on my reputation saying, "these allegations must be true especially given the proclivity of Ohio's neighbors to commit felonies."

There you have it, folks! Time to leak another story about Ohio to the Press!
I'm sorry, didn't realize you lived in a drug den.

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Take Manafort for example, who apparently was Muller's biggest "prize." Manafort was convicted of tax fraud for 15 years before he ever worked for Trump. During "normal" times, IRS auditors force tax cheats like Manafort to pay back taxes, along with substantial penalties and interest. No reason to crowd the prisons, folks, when the IRS can give out extra bonus checks.
Good thing his friend is President of the US who has the power to pardon.

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How is Trump supposed to vet someone like Manafort who has issues with back taxes? Manafort worked with the Podesta brothers for years, and came on board with campaign experience. Trump never had the well-slicked apparatus that Hillary had, and he bungled thru numerous miscues. Every new business has the same issues. Do you think the Podesta's paid all of their taxes? Any CPA can tell you that every business owner can be audited knowing how complicated tax law is.
Hence my point that I don't want congress to be able to do these special prosecutor investigations of presidents unless it is a matter central to the US govt.

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I'm all for people paying their taxes. But lets apply the law fairly. Blind justice eh? How about Roger Stone? 21 agents with night vision and automatic weapons to wake him in a pre-dawn raid? They took out Osama Bin Hiding with less tactical gear!
That's not true, they had two very sophisticated stealth helicopters. Where were the helicopters in the Stone arrest?
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Old 03-26-2019, 04:55 PM   #5567
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I'm sorry, didn't realize you lived in a drug den.
The Lord commanded us to love our neighbors.

Only with God are such things possible.

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That's not true, they had two very sophisticated stealth helicopters. Where were the helicopters in the Stone arrest?
Stealth Helicopters broke down because of Obama's Sequestration. Some were abandoned in Pakistan.

So they drove new ELECTRI-SWAT Hum-Vee's to Stone's place and charged them while he got his pajamas on.
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Old 03-26-2019, 07:46 PM   #5568
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The Lord commanded us to love our neighbors.

Only with God are such things possible.

Stealth Helicopters broke down because of Obama's Sequestration. Some were abandoned in Pakistan.

So they drove new ELECTRI-SWAT Hum-Vee's to Stone's place and charged them while he got his pajamas on.
I will concede that the two operations were both handled with comparable hardware reflecting the importance the democrats placed on them for their own future success. It may be that ever since Carter and Dukakis they don't want to mess up these operations and appear weak.

That said I can understand SWAT being concerned about a guy with a large tattoo of Nixon, obviously unstable.
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Old 03-26-2019, 09:14 PM   #5569
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I will concede that the two operations were both handled with comparable hardware reflecting the importance the democrats placed on them for their own future success. It may be that ever since Carter and Dukakis they don't want to mess up these operations and appear weak.

That said I can understand SWAT being concerned about a guy with a large tattoo of Nixon, obviously unstable.
What? That explains everything. Who would do such a thing?

Takes Tattoo's to another level! Kind of freaky. Not a bad resemblance though. He even has a Nixon bong! Probably was using it at the time.




I suppose only a Trump Tat is missing!
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Old 03-27-2019, 09:48 AM   #5570
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The Lord commanded us to love our neighbors.

Only with God are such things possible.
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Old 03-27-2019, 10:23 AM   #5571
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I suppose only a Trump Tat is missing!
Fake news opportunity! Make an April Fools press release about a tattoo parlor giving out Trump Tats for free as a Grand Opening Sale, and show a long line of MAGA hatted people. You will probably make the 6:30 news.
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Old 03-27-2019, 06:22 PM   #5572
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I tell you what, this AOC is doing a great job fund raising for the GOP.
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Old 03-27-2019, 10:00 PM   #5573
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I tell you what, this AOC is doing a great job fund raising for the GOP.
Kinda like what Obama did for gun sales when he was Pres?
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Old 03-28-2019, 05:23 AM   #5574
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I tell you what, this AOC is doing a great job fund raising for the GOP.
She got them all thinking about life without hamburgers, three times a day.

Even the Democrats have turned on her. Not a single vote for her "groundbreaking" legislation.
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Old 03-28-2019, 06:06 AM   #5575
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She got them all thinking about life without hamburgers, three times a day.

Even the Democrats have turned on her. Not a single vote for her "groundbreaking" legislation.
Too soon to laugh, could be a brilliant plan to promote a new bar, "The green deal" where you can go and complain about capitalism while you get drunk. Besides, owning a bar could be much more profitable to her than being a congresswoman. She could put it in the neighborhood that didn't get the Amazon.com business, probably a lot of unemployed people who want to go somewhere, get drunk, and complain.
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Old 03-28-2019, 06:42 AM   #5576
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Too soon to laugh, could be a brilliant plan to promote a new bar, "The green deal" where you can go and complain about capitalism while you get drunk. Besides, owning a bar could be much more profitable to her than being a congresswoman. She could put it in the neighborhood that didn't get the Amazon.com business, probably a lot of unemployed people who want to go somewhere, get drunk, and complain.
I'm sure there's money in the future for AOC. Too bad she got a degree from a prestigious university, with all that debt, and never learned a thing about economics, business, or life in general. Her downfall was not just stupidity, but hypocrisy. She'll marry some rich Democrat and live out her life promoting misguided causes. She'll begin 2020 with a book deal. Maybe run for mayor like Weiner.

And btw, people never give Donald Trump enough credit for his convictions against alcohol and drugs. That's one of the things Evangelicals / conservatives respect. Trump works tirelessly to protect Americans against its dangers. Love him or hate him, that's what Trump is now all about. Protecting Americans. Build the wall!
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Old 03-28-2019, 06:57 AM   #5577
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I'm sure there's money in the future for AOC. Too bad she got a degree from a prestigious university, with all that debt, and never learned a thing about economics, business, or life in general. Her downfall was not just stupidity, but hypocrisy. She'll marry some rich Democrat and live out her life promoting misguided causes. She'll begin 2020 with a book deal. Maybe run for mayor like Weiner.

And btw, people never give Donald Trump enough credit for his convictions against alcohol and drugs. That's one of the things Evangelicals / conservatives respect. Trump works tirelessly to protect Americans against its dangers. Love him or hate him, that's what Trump is now all about. Protecting Americans. Build the wall!
If we are talking about lack of appreciation, what about Gillibrand. I'd like her to do my taxes. Her talents are being wasted in congress.
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Old 03-28-2019, 08:46 AM   #5578
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If we are talking about lack of appreciation, what about Gillibrand. I'd like her to do my taxes. Her talents are being wasted in congress.
Explain? You know her better than I.

She has flip-flopped on many issues. Each 2020 hopeful is fighting to become the LEFT-most of all.

Poor Joe Biden is now apologizing for being old, for being white, and for being a man. Such conviction!
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Old 03-28-2019, 03:41 PM   #5579
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Explain? You know her better than I.
I was impressed that she made close to $250,000 and only paid about 1/10th of that in taxes.
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Old 03-28-2019, 04:48 PM   #5580
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I was impressed that she made close to $250,000 and only paid about 1/10th of that in taxes.
I'm more impressed with Kamala Harris who got her best friend Justin Smollett off with a $10K fine and 15 hours community service stuffing envelopes for Jesse Jackson.
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Old 03-28-2019, 05:14 PM   #5581
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I'm more impressed with Kamala Harris who got her best friend Justin Smollett off with a $10K fine and 15 hours community service stuffing envelopes for Jesse Jackson.
Whoa! I mean Whoa! She is singing my song! No one says a bad word about Kamala!
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Old 03-29-2019, 06:30 AM   #5582
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I'm more impressed with Kamala Harris who got her best friend Justin Smollett off with a $10K fine and 15 hours community service stuffing envelopes for Jesse Jackson.
I am very angry over the Smollett situation. According to the Bible if a false witness tries to frame someone else for a crime, they should be charged with that crime and get the full penalty possible. Smollett tried to frame MAGA hat wearers with a hate crime. The only righteous response is to try him for a hate crime. Also, he should be given the max penalty that someone else might get had they been convicted of the crime.

Imagine two poor schmucks with MAGA hats who might have been at a bar after 12 getting picked up and convicted for this. They probably would have gotten 5-10 years. Their life in prison would have been hell. The idea that this guy get walk away with a fine and might be able to continue his acting career is outrageous. The idea that this is a "he said, they said" case is baloney. His claim that he was paying for services rendered could easily be verified or refuted. The story of the two men clearly and unequivocally has been verified. If Smollett's account were true it would be incredible, whereas their account is very reasonable. Put him in front of a jury.
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Old 03-29-2019, 01:07 PM   #5583
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I am very angry over the Smollett situation. According to the Bible if a false witness tries to frame someone else for a crime, they should be charged with that crime and get the full penalty possible. Smollett tried to frame MAGA hat wearers with a hate crime. The only righteous response is to try him for a hate crime. Also, he should be given the max penalty that someone else might get had they been convicted of the crime.

Imagine two poor schmucks with MAGA hats who might have been at a bar after 12 getting picked up and convicted for this. They probably would have gotten 5-10 years. Their life in prison would have been hell. The idea that this guy get walk away with a fine and might be able to continue his acting career is outrageous. The idea that this is a "he said, they said" case is baloney. His claim that he was paying for services rendered could easily be verified or refuted. The story of the two men clearly and unequivocally has been verified. If Smollett's account were true it would be incredible, whereas their account is very reasonable. Put him in front of a jury.
In my analysis of the events, both hoaxes -- the Russian collusion and the polar vortex lynching -- are the same. Smollett is Hillary and Trump is that poor schmuck.

Smollett and Hillary were both caught red-handed and publicly excoriated by law enforcement officials. Their guilt was on full display. Smollett by the Chicago Chief of Police and Hillary by Director Comey. Their crimes were made public. But Smollett and Hillary knew people in power -- prosecutors who could over-rule the cops, as in A.G. Lynch with Comey, and Illinois State's Atty. Kim Foxx with the Chicago Police. The root of corruption for both cases is in Chicago.

Behind the scenes in both cases were friends of the Obama's to protect them. There were also unsuspecting victims of the Obama Apparatchik -- directly Trump and that nameless schmuck. But subsequently and collectively in both cases, the endgame was to smear all white "supremacist" conservative straight Christian Republican males. Or anybody with MAGA hats.
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Old 03-31-2019, 06:49 AM   #5584
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AOC

NYers have already found another candidate to challenge AOC. She hasn't been in office for 2 months before the challenge for her seat began.

Dems totall and completely rejected her plan, a big fat public rebuke.

Democratic big contributors are also slamming her.

Again, the best move for her is to cash in on her publicity and start a bar for the disaffected socialists. Give it a happy name suggesting the overconsumption of alcohol -- "The Green Party".
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Old 03-31-2019, 07:32 AM   #5585
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AOC

NYers have already found another candidate to challenge AOC. She hasn't been in office for 2 months before the challenge for her seat began.

Dems totall and completely rejected her plan, a big fat public rebuke.

Democratic big contributors are also slamming her.

Again, the best move for her is to cash in on her publicity and start a bar for the disaffected socialists. Give it a happy name suggesting the overconsumption of alcohol -- "The Green Party".

‘Her heart is not in The Bronx’: Ocasio-Cortez’s constituents turn against her

With such an horrific track record, on full display nationally with AOC and Abedin/Weiner, NY Dems ought to try a Republican for a change. Definitely can't get any worse for them.

When will NYers ever learn that the high taxes of Socialism signal the end of the Middle Class.

Will BREXIT become Bronx-Exit as wealthy NYers leave the city-state of NY.
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Old 03-31-2019, 01:32 PM   #5586
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‘Her heart is not in The Bronx’: Ocasio-Cortez’s constituents turn against her

With such an horrific track record, on full display nationally with AOC and Abedin/Weiner, NY Dems ought to try a Republican for a change. Definitely can't get any worse for them.
Hold it, what about Trump and Clinton, they are both NYers.
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Old 04-04-2019, 02:24 PM   #5587
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Welcome back, Joe!



It seems like both Donald Trump and Joe Biden have become victims of the Bernie Sanders' Left.

Perhaps Trump can offer Joe support, like few others can.
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Old 04-14-2019, 03:07 PM   #5588
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Welcome back, Joe!



It seems like both Donald Trump and Joe Biden have become victims of the Bernie Sanders' Left.

Perhaps Trump can offer Joe support, like few others can.
Maybe he'll put his hand on his shoulder and kiss him on the neck.
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Old 04-14-2019, 03:57 PM   #5589
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Maybe he'll put his hand on his shoulder and kiss him on the neck.
Yeah, who knows what he will provoke him to do to him.
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Old 04-14-2019, 07:39 PM   #5590
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Joe can't feel the warm touch of a human anymore, Robert Kraft can't get a rub and tug any more, maybe Joe can give Robert a happy ending, and all can find happiness.
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Old 04-16-2019, 02:29 PM   #5591
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This is from HuffPo so it has to be fake news :

Michele Bachmann Hails ‘Godly’ Trump: We’ll Never See A More Biblical President

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/miche...b098b9a2d91706
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Old 04-26-2019, 10:07 AM   #5592
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Poor Hillary ...

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Old 04-26-2019, 12:31 PM   #5593
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Poor Hillary ...

Let's impeach Hillary.
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Old 04-26-2019, 09:27 PM   #5594
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Let's impeach Hillary.
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Old 04-28-2019, 08:11 AM   #5595
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Default Nothing new at the FBI/CIA

Dr. Lee Edwards details how he and his colleagues on Sen. Barry Goldwater’s 1964 campaign for president were under FBI and CIA surveillance ordered by President Lyndon B. Johnson.

Watch how Edwards, then in his early 30s and serving as communications director for the Goldwater campaign, recalls the slow, creeping realization they were being watched and listened to by the free world’s most powerful intelligence services. LBJ also had well-placed spies in the Goldwater Campaign.

Yet it's always Democratic operatives who scream "collusion" and "voter fraud" to dissemble misinformation about their own corruption.
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Old 04-28-2019, 08:13 PM   #5596
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Yet it's always Democratic operatives who scream "collusion" and "voter fraud" to dissemble misinformation about their own corruption.
Hey I've heard Trump scream voter fraud, and accuse Demmies of collusion.

Seems both brands are tossing it at the other brand.

Like you here.
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Old 04-29-2019, 03:12 AM   #5597
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Hey I've heard Trump scream voter fraud, and accuse Demmies of collusion.

Seems both brands are tossing it at the other brand.

Like you here.
The Dems had Muller investigate the Trump WH for two years, with millions of documents, hundreds of subpoenas, etc. and they found ZERO collusion.

Obviously, you can't trust the Dems on anything. It kind of makes sense don't it, for those who are willing to slaughter both the unborn and the born, for gain?
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Old 04-29-2019, 06:24 AM   #5598
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The Dems had Muller investigate the Trump WH for two years, with millions of documents, hundreds of subpoenas, etc. and they found ZERO collusion.

Obviously, you can't trust the Dems on anything. It kind of makes sense don't it, for those who are willing to slaughter both the unborn and the born, for gain?
I don't think that is a fair representation of what happened. The Mueller report does not conclude there is evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. Not the same as "ZERO collusion".

In my opinion I think it would be a mistake for the Democrats to press on with impeachment, but I would be sympathetic to those who disagree with that conclusion.
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Old 04-29-2019, 08:44 AM   #5599
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I don't think that is a fair representation of what happened. The Mueller report does not conclude there is evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. Not the same as "ZERO collusion".

In my opinion I think it would be a mistake for the Democrats to press on with impeachment, but I would be sympathetic to those who disagree with that conclusion.
Absurd! Have you lost your mind? Sometimes you sound like you been drinking at AOC's bar.

The entire Muller Special Prosecutors Office was PREDICATED on actual evidence of collusion with the Russians. If none exists, then Trump was completely right to be outraged, threaten to fire Muller, call Comey a dirty cop and fire him, etc.

Where's the evidence? Of course what I said was a fair representation of what happened.

They spied on the Trump admin, they attempted to plant spies, they ran a sting operation to setup the Trump staff, they leaked classified info, they claimed evidence existed, they framed Flynn and Papadopolous, etc.
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Old 04-29-2019, 08:55 AM   #5600
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Absurd! Have you lost your mind? Sometimes you sound like you been drinking at AOC's bar.

The entire Muller Special Prosecutors Office was PREDICATED on actual evidence of collusion with the Russians. If none exists, then Trump was completely right to be outraged, threaten to fire Muller, call Comey a dirty cop and fire him, etc.

Where's the evidence? Of course what I said was a fair representation of what happened.

They spied on the Trump admin, they attempted to plant spies, they ran a sting operation to setup the Trump staff, they leaked classified info, they claimed evidence existed, they framed Flynn and Papadopolous, etc.
Where is the evidence:

1. Democrats email was hacked by the Russians

2. Russians used Social media to influence the election.

3. Donald Trump called on the Russians publicly to release Hillary Clinton's emails.

4. High level associates of Donald Trumps election campaign met with Russians who claimed to have incriminating evidence against Hillary Clinton.

To my opinion that is more than enough evidence to warrant an investigation (not an indictment).

Anyone who would not want to investigate knowing that is the one who is drinking Kool Aid.
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Old 04-29-2019, 10:31 PM   #5601
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Where is the evidence:

1. Democrats email was hacked by the Russians

2. Russians used Social media to influence the election.

3. Donald Trump called on the Russians publicly to release Hillary Clinton's emails.

4. High level associates of Donald Trumps election campaign met with Russians who claimed to have incriminating evidence against Hillary Clinton.

To my opinion that is more than enough evidence to warrant an investigation (not an indictment).

Anyone who would not want to investigate knowing that is the one who is drinking Kool Aid.
The Mueller report clearly shows obstruction. And Trump is still at it. With all his law suits to stop any investigation of his taxes -- breaking a law -- and banking records, he's obstructing because he obviously has something to hide.

But Jesus said it would be shouted from the rooftops.
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Old 04-30-2019, 04:43 AM   #5602
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The Mueller report clearly shows obstruction. And Trump is still at it. With all his law suits to stop any investigation of his taxes -- breaking a law -- and banking records, he's obstructing because he obviously has something to hide.

But Jesus said it would be shouted from the rooftops.
If there was "clear" obstruction, they would have arrested Trump for a crime. Instead Muller got to write a dishonest smear report where none of his claims were challenged by Trump in a legal proceeding. Trump had no defense, nor chance to cross-examine. It's too bad you guys never heard of something called "due process."

The Dems used Romney's taxes to smear him, and Obama won a second term. It has nothing to do with breaking laws, because the IRS surely has access to all of Trump's tax info. It's all politics. These people have no principles. They would even use Barron's allowance to smear his dad. Look what the iRS did to the Tea Party.

How does the Trump Admin "obstruct justice" when there was no underlying crime? Look at how they framed Mike Flynn. When did Muller know that there was no collusion? Why did he drag out the investigation thru the mid-term elections in order to affect the elections? Did not Muller do more to interfere with our democratic process than the Russians? Why did the Obama Admin do nothing when the Russians hacked the DNC?

Just watch the next few months. Several investigations will be concluding. Criminal referrals have been made to the DOJ. Hidden things WILL be shouted from the housetops, and it won't be Trumps' business transactions from the last century.
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Old 04-30-2019, 04:45 AM   #5603
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Where is the evidence:

1. Democrats email was hacked by the Russians

2. Russians used Social media to influence the election.
Why is Trump responsible for what Russia did, and the Obama people did not stop?
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Old 04-30-2019, 07:24 AM   #5604
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If there was "clear" obstruction, they would have arrested Trump for a crime. Instead Muller got to write a dishonest smear report where none of his claims were challenged by Trump in a legal proceeding. Trump had no defense, nor chance to cross-examine. It's too bad you guys never heard of something called "due process."

The Dems used Romney's taxes to smear him, and Obama won a second term. It has nothing to do with breaking laws, because the IRS surely has access to all of Trump's tax info. It's all politics. These people have no principles. They would even use Barron's allowance to smear his dad. Look what the iRS did to the Tea Party.

How does the Trump Admin "obstruct justice" when there was no underlying crime? Look at how they framed Mike Flynn. When did Muller know that there was no collusion? Why did he drag out the investigation thru the mid-term elections in order to affect the elections? Did not Muller do more to interfere with our democratic process than the Russians? Why did the Obama Admin do nothing when the Russians hacked the DNC?

Just watch the next few months. Several investigations will be concluding. Criminal referrals have been made to the DOJ. Hidden things WILL be shouted from the housetops, and it won't be Trumps' business transactions from the last century.
With over 10,000 lies since taking office Trump is not only asking for it it, but is begging for it ... #pathological.
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Old 04-30-2019, 08:45 AM   #5605
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With over 10,000 lies since taking office Trump is not only asking for it it, but is begging for it ... #pathological.
Trump said 10,000 times that there was "NO COLLUSION," and after his exhaustive investigation, Muller proved he was right. What is it you don't get?


"And because of this, God sends them an operation of error that they might believe the lie."
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Old 04-30-2019, 08:48 AM   #5606
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Why is Trump responsible for what Russia did, and the Obama people did not stop?
How many times do we have to go over this?

Convicted = responsible

Indicted = implicated

Investigation = crime was committed and we want to know if he was involved. It does not imply Trump was responsible. It was predicated on evidence of a crime being committed (no one denies that), that Trump benefitted from that crime (can be debated, but certainly cannot be denied) and that there is a basis to be concerned that Trump might have been involved (meeting, his own comments).

Only an idiot would argue that the US government, realizing their election was hacked by a foreign power, should not investigate.

Mueller's report did not exonerate Trump, it merely showed he was so stupid that he could not have coordinated this. Why do I say he was stupid? He brought the entire investigation on himself. He went on public TV asking Russia to commit a crime, hack the DNC, and then publish that for his benefit. That is the definition of stupidity. In addition his campaign officials were so stupid they had this very questionable meeting with the Russians, and by that time should have known that either the meeting was bogus or else the Russians were offering something that was obtained criminally. Top level officials were in this meeting and had it in Trump tower. Again, the definition of stupidity. They brought this investigation on themselves.
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Old 04-30-2019, 08:50 AM   #5607
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Joseph diGenova is the former U. S. Attorney for the District of Columbia and a former legal counsel to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court. He has also been a frequent commentator on Fox News and Washington’s WMAL Radio. Throughout the Trump-Russia collusion fiasco and Team Mueller’s investigation of the president, diGenova has proven to be a reliable source of information as to what was happening behind the scenes. His pronouncements and predictions have consistently proven to be true.

On April 24, 2019, diGenova appeared on the Ingraham Angle and made his most explosive predictions yet. Here’s the link to the video. What follows below is a partial transcript of his remarks starting at 27 seconds into the broadcast.
It has been evident from day one that there was a brazen plot to exonerate Hillary Clinton illegally, and then, if she lost the election, to frame Donald Trump. This [Steele] dossier was a knowing part of that. It was created by Hillary Clinton. It was created knowingly by [former CIA Director] John Brennan as part of a scheme to do everything they could to harm Donald Trump.

The problem for Brennan and [former Director of National Intelligence] Clapper and [former FBI Director] Comey and [former FBI General Counsel] Baker and all of them now is, is that the FISA Court has already communicated with the Justice Department about its findings. And their findings are that from more than four years before the election of Donald Trump, there was an illegal spying operation going on by FBI [private] contractors — four of them — to steal personal information, electronic information about Americans and to use it against the Republican Party.

There are going to be indictments. There’s going to be grand juries. John Brennan isn’t going to need one lawyer. He’s going to need five!
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Old 04-30-2019, 09:01 AM   #5608
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How many times do we have to go over this?

Convicted = responsible

Indicted = implicated

Investigation = crime was committed and we want to know if he was involved. It does not imply Trump was responsible. It was predicated on evidence of a crime being committed (no one denies that), that Trump benefitted from that crime (can be debated, but certainly cannot be denied) and that there is a basis to be concerned that Trump might have been involved (meeting, his own comments).

Only an idiot would argue that the US government, realizing their election was hacked by a foreign power, should not investigate.

Mueller's report did not exonerate Trump, it merely showed he was so stupid that he could not have coordinated this. Why do I say he was stupid? He brought the entire investigation on himself. He went on public TV asking Russia to commit a crime, hack the DNC, and then publish that for his benefit. That is the definition of stupidity.
Obama was in power. They should have investigated him. Why did he do nothing? Why did he not inform the Trump Campaign Team about the Russian activities? Why were Democratic operatives meeting with that Russian lawyer before and after she met with the Trump Campaign officials in that infamous meeting?

ZNP, you really need to get better sources for your info. Your post indicates you are still in a 2016 mindset.

Since when does a prosecutor need to exonerate any American citizen? Are we not all INNOCENT by law until proven guilty? Why are you now demanding that Trump be EXONERATED by a prosecutor? Since when does he need to have his innocence proven?
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Old 04-30-2019, 11:04 AM   #5609
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Obama was in power. They should have investigated him.
Then the President of the US (Trump) should instruct his AG to do that.


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Why did he do nothing? Why did he not inform the Trump Campaign Team about the Russian activities? Why were Democratic operatives meeting with that Russian lawyer before and after she met with the Trump Campaign officials in that infamous meeting?
These are good questions and every US citizen should want them answered. I see no reason why Trump cannot instruct his AG to look into it. One of his campaign slogans was "Lock her up". Hence many people thought that voting for Trump would involve an investigation into Hillary. I would gladly support that.

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ZNP, you really need to get better sources for your info. Your post indicates you are still in a 2016 mindset.

Since when does a prosecutor need to exonerate any American citizen?
The point is when some claim that Mueller's report exonerated Trump that is erroneous. It did not exonerate him, it simply did not advise indicting him.

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Are we not all INNOCENT by law until proven guilty? Why are you now demanding that Trump be EXONERATED by a prosecutor? Since when does he need to have his innocence proven?
I did not demand that, I simply pointed out that saying the prosecutor exonerated Trump is not accurate. Finding evidence that could convict Trump beyond a reasonable doubt is a much higher standard. They did not meet that standard. That is all that can be concluded.
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Old 04-30-2019, 11:06 AM   #5610
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Joseph diGenova is the former U. S. Attorney for the District of Columbia and a former legal counsel to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court. He has also been a frequent commentator on Fox News and Washington’s WMAL Radio. Throughout the Trump-Russia collusion fiasco and Team Mueller’s investigation of the president, diGenova has proven to be a reliable source of information as to what was happening behind the scenes. His pronouncements and predictions have consistently proven to be true.

On April 24, 2019, diGenova appeared on the Ingraham Angle and made his most explosive predictions yet. Here’s the link to the video. What follows below is a partial transcript of his remarks starting at 27 seconds into the broadcast.
It has been evident from day one that there was a brazen plot to exonerate Hillary Clinton illegally, and then, if she lost the election, to frame Donald Trump. This [Steele] dossier was a knowing part of that. It was created by Hillary Clinton. It was created knowingly by [former CIA Director] John Brennan as part of a scheme to do everything they could to harm Donald Trump.

The problem for Brennan and [former Director of National Intelligence] Clapper and [former FBI Director] Comey and [former FBI General Counsel] Baker and all of them now is, is that the FISA Court has already communicated with the Justice Department about its findings. And their findings are that from more than four years before the election of Donald Trump, there was an illegal spying operation going on by FBI [private] contractors — four of them — to steal personal information, electronic information about Americans and to use it against the Republican Party.

There are going to be indictments. There’s going to be grand juries. John Brennan isn’t going to need one lawyer. He’s going to need five!
Someone should tell the president so that he could have the AG investigate and then "lock her up" like he promised. Oh, wait, it was on Fox news so Trump does know. Why hasn't he followed through on his promise to "lock her up"?
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Old 04-30-2019, 11:08 AM   #5611
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It seems from all the whining from the Trump camp that Trump was not president these last two years, that he did not have the most powerful Justice department in the world working for him, nor could he follow through on his promise to "lock her up". It seems he wants to blame Clinton for 4 years without actually investigating, indicting and convicting her. Why?

He was elected with the mandate to "drain the swamp" and "lock her up". What has he done?
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Old 04-30-2019, 12:50 PM   #5612
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Joseph diGenova is the former U. S. Attorney for the District of Columbia and a former legal counsel to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court.
Oh! A deep state dude!
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Old 04-30-2019, 01:00 PM   #5613
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Then the President of the US (Trump) should instruct his AG to do that.

These are good questions and every US citizen should want them answered. I see no reason why Trump cannot instruct his AG to look into it. One of his campaign slogans was "Lock her up". Hence many people thought that voting for Trump would involve an investigation into Hillary. I would gladly support that.
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Someone should tell the president so that he could have the AG investigate and then "lock her up" like he promised. Oh, wait, it was on Fox news so Trump does know. Why hasn't he followed through on his promise to "lock her up"?
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It seems from all the whining from the Trump camp that Trump was not president these last two years, that he did not have the most powerful Justice department in the world working for him, nor could he follow through on his promise to "lock her up". It seems he wants to blame Clinton for 4 years without actually investigating, indicting and convicting her. Why?

He was elected with the mandate to "drain the swamp" and "lock her up". What has he done?
*** NEWS FLASH *** *** NEWS FLASH *** *** NEWS FLASH ***

Trump did NOT have an Attorney General his first two years of Presidency.

Jeff Sessions was deceived by Rosenstein into recusing himself when Rosenstein was far more conflicted than he was. Soon Rosenstein will be gone, the report by IG Michael Horowitz will be finished, and A.G. Barr has promised to investigate the origins of the Russian Collusion Delusion with the FBI Spygate scandal.

The swamp will slowly be drained. Many indictments will be handed down. Who knows how far up the food chain it will go, and whether it will include Hillary or Obama. One thing is certain. The crimes here are ten-fold worse than WaterGate ever was.
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Old 04-30-2019, 01:02 PM   #5614
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Oh! A deep state dude!
Being in the know is far different than being in the swamp.


*******************************************


It's truly incredible to watch all these haters when they learn that their President was not a Putin Puppet.

It's got to be a little disheartening to wake up and learn that the entire Media has been lying to you . . .

. . . . and you believed them!
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Old 04-30-2019, 02:16 PM   #5615
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Being in the know is far different than being in the swamp.


*******************************************


It's truly incredible to watch all these haters when they learn that their President was not a Putin Puppet.

It's got to be a little disheartening to wake up and learn that the entire Media has been lying to you . . .

. . . . and you believed them!
No, I believe Trump. His first words when he found out Mueller had been appointed were : "I'm F***ed."

Mueller is not the end, his report is just beginning of that. Or Trump wouldn't be doing all he can to keep it all hidden.

From the housetops is next. Let him who has ears to hear listen up. And that's not you bro Ohio. Your ears are closed ... except to Fox and Breitbart.
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Old 04-30-2019, 08:53 PM   #5616
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'The summary letter the Department sent to Congress and released to the public late in the afternoon of March 24 did not fully capture the context, nature, and substance of this office's work and conclusions,' Mueller wrote.

'There is now public confusion about critical aspects of the results of our investigation. This threatens to undermine a central purpose for which the Department appointed the Special Counsel: to assure full public confidence in the outcome of the investigations.'


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...re-report.html
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Old 04-30-2019, 10:21 PM   #5617
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If America is going to survive in the 21st century . . . It must learn to laugh at Robert Mueller..
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Old 05-01-2019, 04:13 AM   #5618
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*** NEWS FLASH *** *** NEWS FLASH *** *** NEWS FLASH ***

Trump did NOT have an Attorney General his first two years of Presidency.

Jeff Sessions was deceived by Rosenstein into recusing himself when Rosenstein was far more conflicted than he was. Soon Rosenstein will be gone, the report by IG Michael Horowitz will be finished, and A.G. Barr has promised to investigate the origins of the Russian Collusion Delusion with the FBI Spygate scandal.
Recusing himself from an investigation does not mean "you don't have an AG". Second, having a "special prosecutor" does not take away from the work any of the normal prosecutors are doing, hence the Mueller investigation should not have impacted on any investigations that the AG saw fit to pursue, nor did being investigated impact Trump's ability to talk to the AG about other potential investigations.

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The swamp will slowly be drained. Many indictments will be handed down. Who knows how far up the food chain it will go, and whether it will include Hillary or Obama. One thing is certain. The crimes here are ten-fold worse than WaterGate ever was.
Yes, when the Box 13 scandal is not dealt with you can be sure the crimes will be ten times worse. When the JFK assassination is not dealt with you can be sure the crimes will be ten times worse. Watergate simply proved that the JFK assassination was not dealt with, Nixon was simply collateral damage from that. When 911 is not properly dealt with you can be sure the crimes will be ten times worse. Which of course is why some people voted for Trump to "drain the swamp". How is anyone surprised that those who would perpetrate 911 would also lie and have the power to control the media? No one is going to think they can get away with 911 unless they control the media.
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Old 05-01-2019, 04:31 AM   #5619
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Recusing himself from an investigation does not mean "you don't have an AG". Second, having a "special prosecutor" does not take away from the work any of the normal prosecutors are doing, hence the Mueller investigation should not have impacted on any investigations that the AG saw fit to pursue, nor did being investigated impact Trump's ability to talk to the AG about other potential investigations.

Yes, when the Box 13 scandal is not dealt with you can be sure the crimes will be ten times worse. When the JFK assassination is not dealt with you can be sure the crimes will be ten times worse. Watergate simply proved that the JFK assassination was not dealt with, Nixon was simply collateral damage from that. When 911 is not properly dealt with you can be sure the crimes will be ten times worse. Which of course is why some people voted for Trump to "drain the swamp". How is anyone surprised that those who would perpetrate 911 would also lie and have the power to control the media? No one is going to think they can get away with 911 unless they control the media.
Without Sessions being conned into recusal, there would be no Mueller. Probably the House would not have flipped in 2018.

ZNP, your views create an enigma of untold proportions. You understand the dangers and corruption of the deep state, perhaps better than 99.9% of the population, yet you still dislike Trump for all his many warts.

Perhaps you are waiting for this perfect ruler to finally take control? Me too.
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Old 05-01-2019, 08:11 AM   #5620
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If America is going to survive in the 21st century . . . It must learn to laugh at Robert Mueller..
I did! When I saw all the black in the report I busted out laughing. I saw two lying clowns. Barr is a Trump puppet. Like Sarah Huckster Sanders he had to agree to lie for Trump. He can't be trusted.

But the circles of liars gathering ever more -- if it wasn't bad from the get-go -- Black Manafort, and Stone --around Trump is becoming more than a laughing matter.
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Old 05-01-2019, 10:58 AM   #5621
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Barr is a Trump puppet.
And I could make all sorts of claims about whom you are a puppet of.

These types of accusations serve no purpose.

For 2 years we heard that Trump was a Putin puppet. Then we find it was all a lie. But who then apologizes? And why then are there no consequences for these false accusations from these false witnesses? Or from yours?
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Old 05-01-2019, 10:59 AM   #5622
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Without Sessions being conned into recusal, there would be no Mueller. Probably the House would not have flipped in 2018.

ZNP, your views create an enigma of untold proportions. You understand the dangers and corruption of the deep state, perhaps better than 99.9% of the population, yet you still dislike Trump for all his many warts.

Perhaps you are waiting for this perfect ruler to finally take control? Me too.
In my experience it is foolish to ignore glaring deficiencies and lies. I don't know anyone who likes warts.

I would not characterize my opinion of him as "dislike". I like his stance on Israel. I like his stance on abortion. I am indifferent to his desire to "build the wall". And as much as I critique Trump I also critique the Democrats and have been quite critical of them. I have called AOC an idiot, etc.

I applaud Trump for wanting to "drain the swamp" but have been fair in my assessment that his pretense at being a "heavy weight fighter" has to this point only been backed up with whining and complaining about the refs.

I agree that there are some who will twist everything he says to have the worst possible connotation, but that is simply par for the course for a high profile politician. I think some of the comedians have been cruel in their mockery, but I simply turn them off and ignore them.
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Old 05-01-2019, 12:20 PM   #5623
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And I could make all sorts of claims about whom you are a puppet of.

These types of accusations serve no purpose.

For 2 years we heard that Trump was a Putin puppet. Then we find it was all a lie. But who then apologizes? And why then are there no consequences for these false accusations from these false witnesses? Or from yours?
Our country is being run by a bunch of scumbags. I thought we avoided that by not electing Hillary. But not.
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Old 05-01-2019, 05:52 PM   #5624
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I applaud Trump for wanting to "drain the swamp" but have been fair in my assessment that his pretense at being a "heavy weight fighter" has to this point only been backed up with whining and complaining about the refs.

I agree that there are some who will twist everything he says to have the worst possible connotation, but that is simply par for the course for a high profile politician. I think some of the comedians have been cruel in their mockery, but I simply turn them off and ignore them.
Athletes like LeBron James epitomize "whining and complaining" to the refs. If Trump only complained and whined about biased Press coverage, then you might have a case.

My case for Trump is not based on that. The case is based on crooked "refs" in the CIA/FBI/NSA/DOJ. I have mentionaed their names. You have mentioned the JFK assassination. Many Christians I know are praying for Trump's safety with that in view. You don't seem to understand what "draining the swamp" entails. Trump is waging a battle on multiple fronts. He must make Americans aware of media bias, he must have active supporters, he must have an honest DOJ/FBI, he must have Congressional support, he must have a loyal staff in the White House, etc. You seem to imply that he asks too much, and ought to be able to do it all alone. Seriously? Try to consider the opposition. Even the Bush clan opposed him.

If Trump were a "dictator" as the Left charges, then he would be able to do everything himself, with fiat and military backing. Fact is, an effective Presidency requires so much more than that. It surprises me that you don't understand that US existence is being undermined by an open border. Anyways, thanks for replying as you did.
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Old 05-03-2019, 05:57 AM   #5625
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Athletes like LeBron James epitomize "whining and complaining" to the refs. If Trump only complained and whined about biased Press coverage, then you might have a case.

My case for Trump is not based on that. The case is based on crooked "refs" in the CIA/FBI/NSA/DOJ. I have mentionaed their names. You have mentioned the JFK assassination. Many Christians I know are praying for Trump's safety with that in view. You don't seem to understand what "draining the swamp" entails. Trump is waging a battle on multiple fronts. He must make Americans aware of media bias, he must have active supporters, he must have an honest DOJ/FBI, he must have Congressional support, he must have a loyal staff in the White House, etc. You seem to imply that he asks too much, and ought to be able to do it all alone. Seriously? Try to consider the opposition. Even the Bush clan opposed him.

If Trump were a "dictator" as the Left charges, then he would be able to do everything himself, with fiat and military backing. Fact is, an effective Presidency requires so much more than that. It surprises me that you don't understand that US existence is being undermined by an open border. Anyways, thanks for replying as you did.
A typical strategy in a case like this is not to catch Trump in collusion since that would be very difficult to prove, but rather in obstruction. It seems clear that the Democrats are very upset that the case for obstruction was not stronger and more solid.

But I am not interested in all that, not interested in those that cry foul, or claims of crookedness, etc. What I would like to know is what is the solution? How do you establish a government of the people, by the people and for the people that does not devolve into this?
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Old 05-03-2019, 06:24 AM   #5626
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A typical strategy in a case like this is not to catch Trump in collusion since that would be very difficult to prove, but rather in obstruction. It seems clear that the Democrats are very upset that the case for obstruction was not stronger and more solid.

But I am not interested in all that, not interested in those that cry foul, or claims of crookedness, etc. What I would like to know is what is the solution? How do you establish a government of the people, by the people and for the people that does not devolve into this?
Catch Trump in obstruction??? Yes, that was the plan. So first a fake and absurd crime investigation needed to be launched by which Trump people might be caught "obstructing." Flynn was first. They put him at ease, claiming a fact-finding national security issue, deceiving him into waiving his Miranda rights. They set him up, trapped him, and framed him. Success! Not for America, but for their team!

Back to your question, after one gets lost, the first step is to retrace your steps back to the trail, and identify what went wrong. It seems that AG Barr and other investigators are attempting to do just that -- determine who and what initiated this collusion narrative. Recent reports point to former CIA Director Brennan. Perhaps not. Maybe it was in the "People's House."

The American experiment of governance is predicated on honest, God-fearing, law-abiding, men of integrity. The Founders have acknowledged this. Our "devolved" decline is the result.
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Old 05-03-2019, 10:40 AM   #5627
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Trump says he leaned on God to survive Mueller probe

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...-probe-1298656
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Old 05-03-2019, 10:54 AM   #5628
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Back to your question, after one gets lost, the first step is to retrace your steps back to the trail, and identify what went wrong. It seems that AG Barr and other investigators are attempting to do just that -- determine who and what initiated this collusion narrative. Recent reports point to former CIA Director Brennan. Perhaps not. Maybe it was in the "People's House."

The American experiment of governance is predicated on honest, God-fearing, law-abiding, men of integrity. The Founders have acknowledged this. Our "devolved" decline is the result.
So lets trace back -- 911 -- Watergate -- JFK assassination -- Box 13 scandal -- Teapot dome scandal -- Broken Indian treaties -- Justification of slavery -- etc.

When were these politicians law abiding citizens?
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Old 05-03-2019, 02:00 PM   #5629
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So lets trace back -- 911 -- Watergate -- JFK assassination -- Box 13 scandal -- Teapot dome scandal -- Broken Indian treaties -- Justification of slavery -- etc.

When were these politicians law abiding citizens?
I am not familiar with all of these, but IIRC events like JFK and Watergate were both what I would call "Deep State" operatives. Save for Nixon's paranoia, Watergate was a 2 bit political scandal.

Broken Indian treaties and Justification of slavery were, sorry to say, Democratic programs. Jacksonian Democrats perpetuated the worst of these atrocities. Lincoln and his new Republican Party was instrumental to end slavery, but unfortunately Indian Treaties became "western" territorial issues.

Many have said that our worst scandal in history was Watergate, and if that is true, SpyGate is far worse, but that's only because the Media bought into the "single bullet theory."
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Old 05-03-2019, 07:47 PM   #5630
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I am not familiar with all of these, but IIRC events like JFK and Watergate were both what I would call "Deep State" operatives. Save for Nixon's paranoia, Watergate was a 2 bit political scandal.
You haven't listened to the tapes. Nixon explains why he can't let one of his henchman take the blame and has to resign himself "because of that whole JFK thing". The guy who ran the Watergate operation was the same CIA operative who ran the JFK assassination. This is why I say Nixon was collateral damage. Also, look at why Gerald Ford was assigned to replace Nixon, the same guy who was on the Warren Commission.

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Broken Indian treaties and Justification of slavery were, sorry to say, Democratic programs. Jacksonian Democrats perpetuated the worst of these atrocities. Lincoln and his new Republican Party was instrumental to end slavery, but unfortunately Indian Treaties became "western" territorial issues.
I'm sorry but when I read history I do not see any one party having a monopoly on corruption and greed. Do we really need to get into Iran Contra? 911 was clearly done under a Republican administration.

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Many have said that our worst scandal in history was Watergate, and if that is true, SpyGate is far worse, but that's only because the Media bought into the "single bullet theory."
Watergate was simply the tip of the iceberg.
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Old 05-05-2019, 11:11 AM   #5631
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ZNP, we have now learned that Robert Mueller and his Democratic Staff of Prosecutors long ago learned that there was no evidence of collusion or conspiracy between the Trump Admin and the Russians. Did he not owe it to the American people to provide this much needed information as soon as it became apparent? Did not foreign governments, both friend and foe, need to know this? Was not national security dependent on this?

Yet Team Mueller dragged this out as long as possible. Instead of just focusing on the actual task, rather they spent much time racking up unrelated prosecutions, like a pinball wizard racking up (political) points. Who cares about "collusion," when he can take down the Trumposphere with perjury traps and old tax filings. Many witnesses are now informing us that Team Muller coerced them to "sing and compose." Cohen did, and it neither helped him nor hurt Trump.

Another reason for the delay was to flip the House of Reps. Mueller kept the "cloud of treason" hanging over Trump's head throughout the Midterm elections. Was not this the plan all along? Then, with the Democrats in control, he passed on his investigation to them. Many have called the Mueller Dossier a roadmap for impeachment hearings.

Several things happened to thwart the Mueller Plan . . .
  • Actual investigative journalism exposed FISA abuse, spying, leaking, biased Gov't officials, etc.
  • Senate remained Republican allowing Trump to nominate officials and get them confirmed
  • AG Barr seems immune to Democratic/Media mudslinging
  • Trump says we have had enough of this nonsense
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Old 05-05-2019, 02:33 PM   #5632
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ZNP, we have now learned that Robert Mueller and his Democratic Staff of Prosecutors long ago learned that there was no evidence of collusion or conspiracy between the Trump Admin and the Russians. Did he not owe it to the American people to provide this much needed information as soon as it became apparent? Did not foreign governments, both friend and foe, need to know this? Was not national security dependent on this?

Yet Team Mueller dragged this out as long as possible. Instead of just focusing on the actual task, rather they spent much time racking up unrelated prosecutions, like a pinball wizard racking up (political) points. Who cares about "collusion," when he can take down the Trumposphere with perjury traps and old tax filings. Many witnesses are now informing us that Team Muller coerced them to "sing and compose." Cohen did, and it neither helped him nor hurt Trump.

Another reason for the delay was to flip the House of Reps. Mueller kept the "cloud of treason" hanging over Trump's head throughout the Midterm elections. Was not this the plan all along? Then, with the Democrats in control, he passed on his investigation to them. Many have called the Mueller Dossier a roadmap for impeachment hearings.

Several things happened to thwart the Mueller Plan . . .
  • Actual investigative journalism exposed FISA abuse, spying, leaking, biased Gov't officials, etc.
  • Senate remained Republican allowing Trump to nominate officials and get them confirmed
  • AG Barr seems immune to Democratic/Media mudslinging
  • Trump says we have had enough of this nonsense
I agree that this was dragged on longer than it should have been. I suspect it could have been closed six months sooner but then both parties would have been calling foul due to the election. I also agree that at this point it seems like a very nasty game of politics and I expect it to blow up in the face of the Democrats. I also agree that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, so exposing FISA abuse, biased govt officials, etc are examples of that.
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Old 05-06-2019, 10:01 AM   #5633
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Two years ago the Democrats decided that they would never support another pro-life candidate.

Today the Democrats have decided to no longer support the nation of Israel, even when under attack.

Not One Democrat Presidential Candidate Defended Israel During Rocket Attacks
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Old 05-06-2019, 01:25 PM   #5634
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Two years ago the Democrats decided that they would never support another pro-life candidate.

Today the Democrats have decided to no longer support the nation of Israel, even when under attack.

Not One Democrat Presidential Candidate Defended Israel During Rocket Attacks
Well, if it comes down to it these will be great selling points for the Republicans. Trump has a lot of credibility when he says he'll support Israel and pro life. Therefore he should pick up a large portion of the Christian vote.
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Old 05-06-2019, 07:42 PM   #5635
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News Flash !!!

STATEMENT BY 375 FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTORS

Each of us believes that the conduct of President Trump described in Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s report would, in the case of any other person not covered by the Office of Legal Counsel policy against indicting a sitting President, result in multiple felony charges for obstruction of justice.

https://medium.com/@dojalumni/statem...s-8ab7691c2aa1
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Old 05-06-2019, 08:06 PM   #5636
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News Flash !!!

STATEMENT BY 375 FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTORS

Each of us believes that the conduct of President Trump described in Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s report would, in the case of any other person not covered by the Office of Legal Counsel policy against indicting a sitting President, result in multiple felony charges for obstruction of justice.

https://medium.com/@dojalumni/statem...s-8ab7691c2aa1
So then impeach him. Why are the Democrats such cowards? For two years they have been saying he is guilty of terrible crimes and should be impeached. The whole thing is repulsive. Instead of impeaching him they say "if he were anyone else". Maybe what they should say is "if we were anyone else".
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Old 05-07-2019, 02:37 AM   #5637
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News Flash !!!

STATEMENT BY 375 FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTORS

Each of us believes that the conduct of President Trump described in Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s report would, in the case of any other person not covered by the Office of Legal Counsel policy against indicting a sitting President, result in multiple felony charges for obstruction of justice.

https://medium.com/@dojalumni/statem...s-8ab7691c2aa1
Sounds like the situation of James Comey on July 4th weekend of 2016, when he said that "no reasonable prosecutor" would bring charges against Hillary . . .
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Old 05-07-2019, 09:47 AM   #5638
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So then impeach him. Why are the Democrats such cowards? For two years they have been saying he is guilty of terrible crimes and should be impeached. The whole thing is repulsive. Instead of impeaching him they say "if he were anyone else". Maybe what they should say is "if we were anyone else".
Silly boy. Do you really expect anything out of the demmies? They're all talk no teeth. When in power the pubbies had no will to do anything about Trump -- emoluments -- now the demmies don't either.

Dysfunctional. No checks and balances. We're being duped by Washington. While we have a twitter deranged president,
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Old 05-07-2019, 11:10 AM   #5639
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Silly boy. Do you really expect anything out of the demmies? They're all talk no teeth. When in power the pubbies had no will to do anything about Trump -- emoluments -- now the demmies don't either.

Dysfunctional. No checks and balances. We're being duped by Washington. While we have a twitter deranged president,
They have no teeth because many of them are also guilty of something. They know it will be quid pro quo. The idea that Trump is some great criminal compared to them is laughable. This is the biggest problem with the whole political system. They just passed a bill concerning climate change. Is it a solution? No. Simply requires that we stay in Paris. Big deal.

If they had any kind of foresight they would be pushing another great leap forward -- fusion.
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Old 05-07-2019, 12:48 PM   #5640
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Silly boy. Do you really expect anything out of the demmies? They're all talk no teeth. When in power the pubbies had no will to do anything about Trump -- emoluments -- now the demmies don't either.

Dysfunctional. No checks and balances. We're being duped by Washington. While we have a twitter deranged president,
The Dems have only false accusations, and little to no crimes to investigate. That's why they have no teeth.

I doubt Trump is using his office to make money. If so, Mueller would have found it. But I'm sure every wealthy American is vulnerable to tax fraud. Dems ought to be careful, what goes around will come around to bite them too.

The Biden and Clinton families, however, are on record for literally $Billions from Russia and China. We may have more FBI investigations "stealing" the 2020 election from the Dems. But you don't have to believe them.
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Old 05-07-2019, 12:49 PM   #5641
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And they condemned the Republicans for having 17 candidates in 2016 . . .

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Old 05-08-2019, 09:21 AM   #5642
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And they condemned the Republicans for having 17 candidates in 2016 . . .

Better than last time. When they had only one ; the Hildabeast.
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Old 05-08-2019, 09:27 AM   #5643
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Better than last time. When they had only one ; the Hildabeast.
Actually there were 5 Democratic candidates in 2016.

For 3 years they have been accusing Trump of "stealing" the election, but the facts of history clearly reveal that Hillary and the DNC colluded to steal the Democratic nomination.

Poor Bernie got stiffed, and some of his voters picked Trump instead. Crooked Hillary won't tell you that!
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Old 05-09-2019, 08:35 AM   #5644
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The Dems have only false accusations, and little to no crimes to investigate. That's why they have no teeth.

I doubt Trump is using his office to make money. If so, Mueller would have found it. But I'm sure every wealthy American is vulnerable to tax fraud. Dems ought to be careful, what goes around will come around to bite them too.

The Biden and Clinton families, however, are on record for literally $Billions from Russia and China. We may have more FBI investigations "stealing" the 2020 election from the Dems. But you don't have to believe them.
I always suspected his reticence at releasing his tax returns was less about criminal behavior and more about ego. After all if he is continually trumpeting that he is being audited the IRS would look very shameful if the tax returns reveal criminal behavior.

But, if he has been telling people he is a billionaire, if he has gotten loans based on inflated estimates of wealth and assets, then this could be very tough on him, not just ego wise (no longer invited to party with the rich?) but also his creditors could demand more assets, higher interest rates, or threaten to sue for fraudulent loan applications.
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Old 05-09-2019, 10:15 AM   #5645
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Actually there were 5 Democratic candidates in 2016.

For 3 years they have been accusing Trump of "stealing" the election, but the facts of history clearly reveal that Hillary and the DNC colluded to steal the Democratic nomination.

Poor Bernie got stiffed, and some of his voters picked Trump instead. Crooked Hillary won't tell you that!
The irony is that, Trump is president BECAUSE of the Hildabeast.
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Old 05-09-2019, 01:25 PM   #5646
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The irony is that, Trump is president BECAUSE of the Hildabeast.
This is brilliant! But . . .

Carter was President because of Nixon.
Reagan was President because of Carter.
G H W Bush was President because of Reagan.
Clinton was President because of Perot.
G W Bush was President because of Clinton.
Obama was President because of Bush.
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Old 05-09-2019, 03:01 PM   #5647
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This is brilliant! But . . .

Carter was President because of Nixon.
Reagan was President because of Carter.
G H W Bush was President because of Reagan.
Clinton was President because of Perot.
G W Bush was President because of Clinton.
Obama was President because of Bush.
Very funny! Trump was president not because he won the election but because Hillary lost it. I guess Tiger Woods didn't win all those tournaments, it was the other golfers who lost. Likewise with the Patriots and Brady, they didn't win, their opponents lost. This takes whininess to a whole new lower level.
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Old 05-17-2019, 04:36 AM   #5648
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CNN ran a story likening the new abortion laws to Hitler (except for). So the exception was that Hitler executed the doctors and imprisoned the women forcing them to become pregnant. Now those "exceptions" are the true Hitleresque actions that we associate with a monster. So this story just reinforces the entire "fake news" version of news aka 1984.
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Old 05-25-2019, 11:16 AM   #5649
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Let's see who cuts the first deal with the prosecutors and starts spilling the beans . . . .

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Old 05-25-2019, 03:13 PM   #5650
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Let's see who cuts the first deal with the prosecutors and starts spilling the beans . . . .

At least someone is spilling the beans. Hopefully all of them, including the ones locked up, Mueller, Hicks, and the rest. Including the banks, and the IRS.
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Old 05-29-2019, 06:54 AM   #5651
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Pro-choice groups lost in Alabama despite outspending the pro-life side by 100-to-1

Regardless of how you think about Alabama's law, if you don't live in Alabama why should we care? It seems like those who oppose this law also oppose the principle of democracy.

I asked one woman who was being very vocal that if NY outlawed abortion but it was legal in New Jersey how inconvenient would that be? She agreed that going to NJ would not be an issue at all. Same is true of Conn. If the polls actually do favor abortion then what is the fuss, at least half, maybe 2/3 of the US states will not pass any laws. These people are very vehement about their right to an opinion on this issue, yet somehow don't think the citizens of Alabama have a right to theirs.

I see lots of signs from pro lifers saying "Its not your body". Well, it isn't theirs either.

In contract law you have the right to sign or not sign a contract. Complete freedom. But once you have signed you are obligated to that contract. This doesn't violate your freedom, it doesn't violate your rights. Why isn't it the same with a woman having sex. You have the right to refuse, you have the right to use various forms of contraceptives. But once you are pregnant how is that any less sacred than signing a contract?
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Old 05-29-2019, 08:39 AM   #5652
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Pro-choice groups lost in Alabama despite outspending the pro-life side by 100-to-1
Alabama has a history of controlling the sovereignty of other peoples bodies.

Such laws will not stand, any more than the Federal Fugitive Slave Act was able to stand. Alabama was big on that law to control peoples bodies too ; black bodies. Nothing new. But this time it's the sovereignty of women's bodies.

https://eji.org/history-racial-injus...ive-slave-acts
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Old 05-29-2019, 10:14 AM   #5653
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Alabama has a history of controlling the sovereignty of other peoples bodies.

Such laws will not stand, any more than the Federal Fugitive Slave Act was able to stand. Alabama was big on that law to control peoples bodies too ; black bodies. Nothing new. But this time it's the sovereignty of women's bodies.
Remember it was the Alabaman Democrats who obstructed Lincoln's formation of the Republican Party and his work of emancipation.
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Old 05-29-2019, 10:52 AM   #5654
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Pro-choice groups lost in Alabama despite outspending the pro-life side by 100-to-1

Regardless of how you think about Alabama's law, if you don't live in Alabama why should we care? It seems like those who oppose this law also oppose the principle of democracy.

I see lots of signs from pro lifers saying "Its not your body". Well, it isn't theirs either.
I would like to hear from one unborn child that they support the "pro-choice" movement.

Thank God for all those, both men and women, who are fighting against a mother's "inconvenience," and for the life of unborn children.
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Old 05-29-2019, 02:15 PM   #5655
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Remember it was the Alabaman Democrats who obstructed Lincoln's formation of the Republican Party and his work of emancipation.
Funny how it's flipped since then. Can we get that Republican party back again? I thought they wanted gov'ment out of our lives. Now they want the gov'ment in the most intimate of our lives. Republicans bragging about their past virtues while not holding them today is a sad joke.
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Old 05-29-2019, 02:27 PM   #5656
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I would like to hear from one unborn child that they support the "pro-choice" movement.
That's another joke, obviously. Fetuses in the first 10 weeks have the neural system of a shrimp, and can't speak or think.

I rescued one out of a toilet at about 8 or 10 weeks. It was smaller than a shrimp. And it didn't say anything at all. God was the abortion doctor. Maybe He needs to be imprisoned for life.
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Old 05-29-2019, 02:35 PM   #5657
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Alabama has a history of controlling the sovereignty of other peoples bodies... But this time it's the sovereignty of women's bodies.

https://eji.org/history-racial-injus...ive-slave-acts
Wow, are you saying that women don't have the right to vote in Alabama?! That is disturbing. I thought the majority of voters were women and they had the right to vote in every state.

How many times do the pro abortionists make it seem like men want to control women's bodies, ignoring the fact that this law could never pass without women supporting it.

The arrogance that they assume everyone has to support them except for a few old fossils from 150 years ago. Instead of lying continuously, why not try and listen to what others are saying.
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Old 05-29-2019, 05:26 PM   #5658
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Wow, are you saying that women don't have the right to vote in Alabama?! That is disturbing. I thought the majority of voters were women and they had the right to vote in every state.

How many times do the pro abortionists make it seem like men want to control women's bodies, ignoring the fact that this law could never pass without women supporting it.

The arrogance that they assume everyone has to support them except for a few old fossils from 150 years ago. Instead of lying continuously, why not try and listen to what others are saying.
25 men :

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/15/polit...ted/index.html
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Old 05-29-2019, 05:50 PM   #5659
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Why are they called "representatives"?

Could those men ever be elected if a very large number of women didn't vote for them?
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Old 05-29-2019, 06:26 PM   #5660
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That's another joke, obviously. Fetuses in the first 10 weeks have the neural system of a shrimp, and can't speak or think.
There is strong evidence that these unborn, who can't yet speak or think, have a soul which will live forever. What do you think they will then say?

If thinking or speaking is required, do you now agree that babies under two years can also be slaughtered?

I could also make a strong case that many on the Left have never learned to properly think or speak. What do you propose that we do to them?
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Old 05-29-2019, 08:24 PM   #5661
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When an embryo is first formed, is that a "living soul?"
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Old 05-29-2019, 08:28 PM   #5662
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When an embryo is first formed, is that a "living soul?"
I believe so.
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Old 05-29-2019, 11:11 PM   #5663
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Hello

When Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit..was He not GOD the Son and God Man at the very instant He was a Seed? Was HE not a living Soul?

When sperm and egg connect and produce a seed, that seed is fully a human being based on Jesus being conceived as a SEED.


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When an embryo is first formed, is that a "living soul?"
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Old 05-30-2019, 07:29 AM   #5664
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When an embryo is first formed, is that a "living soul?"
Gen_2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
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Old 05-30-2019, 07:59 AM   #5665
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Hello

When Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit..was He not GOD the Son and God Man at the very instant He was a Seed? Was HE not a living Soul?

When sperm and egg connect and produce a seed, that seed is fully a human being based on Jesus being conceived as a SEED.
Exactly.

Every other definition of life or humanity or personhood fails. Every conception is a miracle -- a man, a woman, and God. The Law may define a person by birth, by a heart beat, or by some other metric, but American Law is not the same as the truth of God.

Of course, the conception of Jesus was exceptionally unique, but every conception is also miraculous. Just because a human body cannot live outside the womb, does not make it less a person, or worse, just a "part" of its mother's body. God gives an everlasting soul to each at conception.

Every unborn child is absolutely unique -- with its own unique face, fingerprints, and DNA. The unborn never were part of its mother, and the mother has no right to murder this unborn person, created by the breath of God.

I believe the "Great cloud of witnesses" in Hebrews 12 includes the murdered unborn. One day justice will be served upon all of those who have supported abortion in any way, including legislators, doctors, judges, activists, and of course, mothers.
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Old 05-30-2019, 08:16 AM   #5666
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Originally Posted by Weighingin View Post
When an embryo is first formed, is that a "living soul?"
Everyone, including all those who have legalized abortion, realize there is a line at which after that point the baby has rights independent of the mother.

Some use "viability" as the line. Alabama uses "heartbeat" as the line. But regardless, everyone realizes that any justification for the woman to be able to terminate the pregnancy decreases with every day that the embryo develops.
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Old 05-30-2019, 08:51 AM   #5667
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Hello

When Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit..was He not GOD the Son and God Man at the very instant He was a Seed? Was HE not a living Soul?

When sperm and egg connect and produce a seed, that seed is fully a human being based on Jesus being conceived as a SEED.
And hello to you sis CMW.

First, there's a lot of Roman Catholic in your conception (no pun intended). Jesus wasn't declared both 100% man and God until the synods, by imperial decree, starting with the First Council of Nicaea, (325AD). Such a conception is not found in the Bible.

Second, a seed isn't produced at conception. It takes two seeds to do that. In that case, by your reckoning, life begins at erection and ovulation.

And finally, if what you say is true, why didn't the wise men come when Mary conceived? If Jesus was God, and that doesn't have strong exegetical Biblical grounding, he would have been God at that point, and the star would have guided them then, to the seed of God. In short, even the the books of Matthew and Luke recognized that Jesus was a living soul at birth.

Gen. 2:7 clearly states it takes the breath to become a "living soul."

And by our constitution, and laws, that's when a person have legal rights, and it's murder to kill them. But still, the parents have sovereignty over that little body until it's grown, as the pregnant mother does while carrying it.

Moreover, even if the Supreme Court overturns Roe v. Wade it won't hold. Women have sovereign rights over their body. Not only can they use a coat hanger, there's also chemical means for abortion they can use, and they will use them because we can't stop them. Abortion was happening thousands of years before Roe.

Why don't we make laws against men that produce unwanted pregnancies? Oh, I forget. Men make the laws, and they aren't going to make laws against themselves ... only against women.

I blame this whole uproar on the Christian Dominionists. Who want to take us back to the Old Testament days. When women were property.
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Old 05-30-2019, 11:47 AM   #5668
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So much misinformation here, I thought it best to respond line by line . . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
First, there's a lot of Roman Catholic in your conception (no pun intended). Jesus wasn't declared both 100% man and God until the synods, by imperial decree, starting with the First Council of Nicaea, (325AD). Such a conception is not found in the Bible.
Our faith and views of scripture have little to do with Councils, which are often in error, kind of similar to this post of yours.

Luke 1.26-56 makes it very clear that the angel Gabriel, sent by God, informed Mary that the child conceived in her womb, who shall be named Jesus, was both God and man, "He will be great, called the Son of the Most High, and the Lord God will give to Him the throne of David His Father."


Quote:
Second, a seed isn't produced at conception. It takes two seeds to do that. In that case, by your reckoning, life begins at erection and ovulation.
This is merely wordplay. What we are referring to at conception is an embryo, which technically develops from a zygote.

Quote:
And finally, if what you say is true, why didn't the wise men come when Mary conceived?
The Wise Men from the east actually began their journey when they saw His star at conception. (Matt 2.1-12) Unfortunately these not so Wise Men got distracted and went to Jerusalem, where Herod got involved. Since they arrived late, they were not at the manger worshiping with the Shepherds, but found Jesus a few days later in a "house," where they worshiped Him with gifts. Obviously God never wanted these inspired guests to worship His Son in the womb of Mary, as that might appear to be God-sanctioned "Mary-worship," which, of course, the real church would never do.

Quote:
If Jesus was God, and that doesn't have strong exegetical Biblical grounding, he would have been God at that point, and the star would have guided them then, to the seed of God.
The Bible plainly states that Jesus was regularly worshiped as God, both at birth, during His ministry, and after His resurrection. So sad to see that your extensive online reading list has caused you to give up on this priceless truth.

Quote:
In short, even the the books of Matthew and Luke recognized that Jesus was a living soul at birth. Gen. 2:7 clearly states it takes the breath to become a "living soul."
The Bible states we are souls, and we have a soul. Jesus as Son of Man was the same. Your demand that a person needs to breathe, based on this verse, is laughable. All scripture is also "God-breathed." Does that mean my Bible must also be "breathing?"

Quote:
And by our constitution, and laws, that's when a person have legal rights, and it's murder to kill them. But still, the parents have sovereignty over that little body until it's grown, as the pregnant mother does while carrying it.
Sovereignty over one's children does not provide the right to take the child's life.

Quote:
Moreover, even if the Supreme Court overturns Roe v. Wade it won't hold. Women have sovereign rights over their body. Not only can they use a coat hanger, there's also chemical means for abortion they can use, and they will use them because we can't stop them. Abortion was happening thousands of years before Roe.
Yes, women have "rights" over their own body. And for that matter, no woman has ever been prosecuted for taking her own life.

But the unborn baby within a woman is not her own body. It's not even a part of her body. It does not have her DNA. She has no "right" over the life of this baby. Whether babies were aborted before Roe has nothing to do with it. Should we legalize other forms of murder since Cain killed his own brother back at the dawn of man? What kind of logic is that?

Quote:
Why don't we make laws against men that produce unwanted pregnancies? Oh, I forget. Men make the laws, and they aren't going to make laws against themselves ... only against women.
In a Constitutional Republic, our representatives make our laws. Male representatives have made laws against men since the beginning. Ever been stopped for speeding? An elected "man" probably has written that law.

Quote:
I blame this whole uproar on the Christian Dominionists. Who want to take us back to the Old Testament days. When women were property.
There you go again! Always blaming Christians for all of this world's ills.
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Old 05-30-2019, 06:41 PM   #5669
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Just to let all know why I asked the "living soul" question.
In post 5656, Awareness states that fetuses in the first have the neural system of a shrimp and can't speak or speak in the first 8 to 10 weeks. That verse came to me after I read it. I believe that it's a human life, but in its most rudimentary form. There are situations where abortions may be performed such as health of the mom, incest, rape (even though there are testimonies of those whose moms decided to carry full term).
As far as I know, the Bible doesn't mention terminating pregnancies, but it does say you shall not kill. So that would mean terminating a human life, no matter what stage its in.
Certainly, with wanting to allow late abortions, it's has clearly come to the point to the point of murder.
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Old 05-30-2019, 07:04 PM   #5670
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Just to let all know why I asked the "living soul" question.
In post 5656, Awareness states that fetuses in the first have the neural system of a shrimp and can't speak or speak in the first 8 to 10 weeks. That verse came to me after I read it. I believe that it's a human life, but in its most rudimentary form. There are situations where abortions may be performed such as health of the mom, incest, rape (even though there are testimonies of those whose moms decided to carry full term).
As far as I know, the Bible doesn't mention terminating pregnancies, but it does say you shall not kill. So that would mean terminating a human life, no matter what stage its in.
Certainly, with wanting to allow late abortions, it's has clearly come to the point to the point of murder.
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Old 05-30-2019, 07:17 PM   #5671
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Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
So much misinformation here, I thought it best to respond line by line . . . .

Our faith and views of scripture have little to do with Councils, which are often in error, kind of similar to this post of yours.

Luke 1.26-56 makes it very clear that the angel Gabriel, sent by God, informed Mary that the child conceived in her womb, who shall be named Jesus, was both God and man, "He will be great, called the Son of the Most High, and the Lord God will give to Him the throne of David His Father."


This is merely wordplay. What we are referring to at conception is an embryo, which technically develops from a zygote.

The Wise Men from the east actually began their journey when they saw His star at conception. (Matt 2.1-12) Unfortunately these not so Wise Men got distracted and went to Jerusalem, where Herod got involved. Since they arrived late, they were not at the manger worshiping with the Shepherds, but found Jesus a few days later in a "house," where they worshiped Him with gifts. Obviously God never wanted these inspired guests to worship His Son in the womb of Mary, as that might appear to be God-sanctioned "Mary-worship," which, of course, the real church would never do.

The Bible plainly states that Jesus was regularly worshiped as God, both at birth, during His ministry, and after His resurrection. So sad to see that your extensive online reading list has caused you to give up on this priceless truth.

The Bible states we are souls, and we have a soul. Jesus as Son of Man was the same. Your demand that a person needs to breathe, based on this verse, is laughable. All scripture is also "God-breathed." Does that mean my Bible must also be "breathing?"

Sovereignty over one's children does not provide the right to take the child's life.

Yes, women have "rights" over their own body. And for that matter, no woman has ever been prosecuted for taking her own life.

But the unborn baby within a woman is not her own body. It's not even a part of her body. It does not have her DNA. She has no "right" over the life of this baby. Whether babies were aborted before Roe has nothing to do with it. Should we legalize other forms of murder since Cain killed his own brother back at the dawn of man? What kind of logic is that?

In a Constitutional Republic, our representatives make our laws. Male representatives have made laws against men since the beginning. Ever been stopped for speeding? An elected "man" probably has written that law.

There you go again! Always blaming Christians for all of this world's ills.
Goodness brother. Methinks you need to rethink this post, or at least reword it in some way. Please. Pretty Please.
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Old 05-30-2019, 07:37 PM   #5672
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Originally Posted by Weighingin View Post
Just to let all know why I asked the "living soul" question.
In post 5656, Awareness states that fetuses in the first have the neural system of a shrimp and can't speak or speak in the first 8 to 10 weeks. That verse came to me after I read it. I believe that it's a human life, but in its most rudimentary form. There are situations where abortions may be performed such as health of the mom, incest, rape (even though there are testimonies of those whose moms decided to carry full term).
As far as I know, the Bible doesn't mention terminating pregnancies, but it does say you shall not kill. So that would mean terminating a human life, no matter what stage its in.
Certainly, with wanting to allow late abortions, it's has clearly come to the point to the point of murder.
The Bible talks about having your son or daughter pass through the fire, and also about having your seed pass through the fire. It describes this as an offering to Moloch or Baal. The two primary reasons to abort a baby is that it is a product of fornication, or that it would interfere with the woman's career.

When a baby is aborted they then throw it out like medical waste and it is incinerated. (Though one state just passed a law that these aborted babies need to be buried/cremated).

God considers an aborted baby to be an offering to Moloch or to Baal.
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Old 05-30-2019, 08:16 PM   #5673
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Goodness brother. Methinks you need to rethink this post, or at least reword it in some way. Please. Pretty Please.
What do you mean "rethink this post or reword it in some way?"
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Old 05-30-2019, 08:23 PM   #5674
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Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
The Bible talks about having your son or daughter pass through the fire, and also about having your seed pass through the fire. It describes this as an offering to Moloch or Baal. The two primary reasons to abort a baby is that it is a product of fornication, or that it would interfere with the woman's career.

When a baby is aborted they then throw it out like medical waste and it is incinerated. (Though one state just passed a law that these aborted babies need to be buried/cremated).

God considers an aborted baby to be an offering to Moloch or to Baal.
Reading the book of Jeremiah, Judah sacrificed to Baal in the valley outside of Jerusalem. The Lord was so upset with this idolatrous practice, that He warned them that this valley will be filled with those killed by the Babylonians, and none of their bodies would be buried.

Today the same atrocities are being commited to America's children.
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Old 05-31-2019, 06:48 AM   #5675
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Reading the book of Jeremiah, Judah sacrificed to Baal in the valley outside of Jerusalem. The Lord was so upset with this idolatrous practice, that He warned them that this valley will be filled with those killed by the Babylonians, and none of their bodies would be buried.

Today the same atrocities are being commited to America's children.
Not only so but in the books of Moses the Lord makes it clear that abortion and infanticide (sacrificing their sons, daughters and seed to Moloch and Baal) are the reason he is dispossessing the nations from Israel.
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Old 05-31-2019, 08:58 AM   #5676
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Not only so but in the books of Moses the Lord makes it clear that abortion and infanticide (sacrificing their sons, daughters and seed to Moloch and Baal) are the reason he is dispossessing the nations from Israel.
Jeremiah continually mentions the Queen of Heaven, (Babylonian Ishtar, Canaanite Ashteroth) the goddess of fertility, whom the Israelite women worshiped with incense, drink offerings, etc. (Jer 44)

History informs us that God judged the nations for this practice, and then judged Israel for the same practice. Israel was so blind during the days of Jeremiah that they even credited their well-being to her. (v.17)

The Left is clueless as to how disturbing this is to the Lord. The darkness and blindness of their ideology and evil practices even deludes some of the children of God.
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Old 05-31-2019, 10:10 AM   #5677
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Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
What do you mean "rethink this post or reword it in some way?"
Well okay brother. I was just being considerate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness
First, there's a lot of Roman Catholic in your conception (no pun intended). Jesus wasn't declared both 100% man and God until the synods, by imperial decree, starting with the First Council of Nicaea, (325AD). Such a conception is not found in the Bible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
Our faith and views of scripture have little to do with Councils, which are often in error, kind of similar to this post of yours.

Luke 1.26-56 makes it very clear that the angel Gabriel, sent by God, informed Mary that the child conceived in her womb, who shall be named Jesus, was both God and man, "He will be great, called the Son of the Most High, and the Lord God will give to Him the throne of David His Father."
Those verses don't apply to 100% man and God. If I'm wrong please point it out ; chapter and verse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness
Second, a seed isn't produced at conception. It takes two seeds to do that. In that case, by your reckoning, life begins at erection and ovulation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
This is merely wordplay. What we are referring to at conception is an embryo, which technically develops from a zygote.
You're a smart guy, and have had children, so surely you looked into the development post-fertilization. It starts out with two "seeds" meeting ; life meets life. There's no "beginning of life."

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness
And finally, if what you say is true, why didn't the wise men come when Mary conceived?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
The Wise Men from the east actually began their journey when they saw His star at conception. (Matt 2.1-12)
I must be blind. Where do those verses say that? I saw a lot of "born" in the verses, but not conception.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
Obviously God never wanted these inspired guests to worship His Son in the womb of Mary, as that might appear to be God-sanctioned "Mary-worship," which, of course, the real church would never do.
lol ... No! The church would never do that! Then they would conjure Mary ... and she'd be showing up everywhere. Why would we want to hear from a double-agent of God?

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness
If Jesus was God, and that doesn't have strong exegetical Biblical grounding, he would have been God at that point, and the star would have guided them then, to the seed of God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
The Bible plainly states that Jesus was regularly worshiped as God, both at birth, during His ministry, and after His resurrection. So sad to see that your extensive online reading list has caused you to give up on this priceless truth.
Jesus may have been worshiped, but not as God the Father, nor even God the Son, in those precise words ... and you know it. You are clearly seeing what you want to see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness
In short, even the the books of Matthew and Luke recognized that Jesus was a living soul at birth. Gen. 2:7 clearly states it takes the breath to become a "living soul."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
The Bible states we are souls, and we have a soul. Jesus as Son of Man was the same. Your demand that a person needs to breathe, based on this verse, is laughable. All scripture is also "God-breathed." Does that mean my Bible must also be "breathing?"
Silly question. But some believe it breaths.

Not laughable. Our laws as to sovereign rights to the privacy of our own body starts at our first breath, generally speaking ... technically, when we exit the womb.

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness
And by our constitution, and laws, that's when a person have legal rights, and it's murder to kill them. But still, the parents have sovereignty over that little body until it's grown, as the pregnant mother does while carrying it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
Sovereignty over one's children does not provide the right to take the child's life.
The unborn is not legally considered to be a child.

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness
Moreover, even if the Supreme Court overturns Roe v. Wade it won't hold. Women have sovereign rights over their body. Not only can they use a coat hanger, there's also chemical means for abortion they can use, and they will use them because we can't stop them. Abortion was happening thousands of years before Roe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness
Yes, women have "rights" over their own body. And for that matter, no woman has ever been prosecuted for taking her own life.

But the unborn baby within a woman is not her own body. It's not even a part of her body. It does not have her DNA. She has no "right" over the life of this baby. Whether babies were aborted before Roe has nothing to do with it. Should we legalize other forms of murder since Cain killed his own brother back at the dawn of man? What kind of logic is that?
This is backward thinking. 2000 yrs backward in fact. 2000 yrs ago they did think that the woman was just an incubator; where the mans seed grew within. Today we know better. And they should have know too. I've cut three umbilical cords. I saw my son cut out of his mother. I've seen close up and clearly how much the baby within is part of the mothers body. The woman is not an incubator.

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness
Why don't we make laws against men that produce unwanted pregnancies? Oh, I forget. Men make the laws, and they aren't going to make laws against themselves ... only against women.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
In a Constitutional Republic, our representatives make our laws. Male representatives have made laws against men since the beginning. Ever been stopped for speeding? An elected "man" probably has written that law.
We're talking about laws to stop abortion. Men can do that with a condom. They are the ones creating unwanted pregnancies. If we're gonna make laws to stop abortion, make a law against that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness
I blame this whole uproar on the Christian Dominionists. Who want to take us back to the Old Testament days. When women were property.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
There you go again! Always blaming Christians for all of this world's ills.
Well ya got me. I blamed the Christian Dominionists. Are you defending them? If so, you may not know anything about them. Or, you may know about them, and support them. You obviously believe in controlling women's bodies. Aren't you married? Aren't you divorced? By now you surely know that you can't control a woman. So let's hear it : LOCK 'EM UP !!! LOCK 'EM UP !!! LOCK 'EM UP !!!
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Old 05-31-2019, 10:16 AM   #5678
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Reading the book of Jeremiah, Judah sacrificed to Baal in the valley outside of Jerusalem. The Lord was so upset with this idolatrous practice, that He warned them that this valley will be filled with those killed by the Babylonians, and none of their bodies would be buried.

Today the same atrocities are being commited to America's children.
Well I do see in the news mothers and fathers killing their own children. There's some presently in court and jail for doing it.

But I've never read in the Bible that fetuses were being sacrificed to Baal. Maybe I missed it. Verse please.

I have read of God telling to use a bitter drink to abort the unborn of an unfaithful wife.
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Old 05-31-2019, 12:55 PM   #5679
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You obviously believe in controlling women's bodies.

So let's hear it : LOCK 'EM UP !!! LOCK 'EM UP !!! LOCK 'EM UP !!!
I control no one. I am only trying to protect the lives of the innocent. Sorry if that is too hard for you to understand. Folks like you are their biggest danger, as they say, "The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing."

But keep digging. You have almost reached 6 feet.
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Old 05-31-2019, 01:07 PM   #5680
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Jesus may have been worshiped, but not as God the Father, nor even God the Son, in those precise words ... and you know it. You are clearly seeing what you want to see.
More games here, bro?

In Matthew, the Magi worshiped the child Jesus as King of the Jews.

In Luke, the angels and shepherds worshiped Him as the Savior, who is Christ the Lord, and all who heard them marveled at what they said.

You obviously refuse to see what you don't want to know.
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Old 05-31-2019, 03:07 PM   #5681
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More games here, bro?
Nothing but games with Awareness. Where exactly is the line that he would draw? He has an issue with Alabama drawing the line at a heart beat. Does he have an issue with the SCOTUS drawing the line at viability?

Enough with the vague, ridiculousness. Awareness needs to tell us where should the line be drawn and why? Also, why is it that Alabama does not have the right to draw the line at the heart beat? Finally, why does Awareness' view of abortion trump America's constitution and principal of democracy?
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Old 06-01-2019, 06:56 PM   #5682
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More games here, bro?

In Matthew, the Magi worshiped the child Jesus as King of the Jews.

In Luke, the angels and shepherds worshiped Him as the Savior, who is Christ the Lord, and all who heard them marveled at what they said.

You obviously refuse to see what you don't want to know.
Okay, King, Savior, Christ the Lord. But not as God.
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