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Old 02-03-2015, 07:46 PM   #1
Terry
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Default Covenant

From Matthew 19 regarding marriage:

Some Pharisees came to Jesus, testing Him and asking, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any reason at all?” And He answered and said, “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.” They *said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to give her a certificate of divorce and send her away?” He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way. Matthew 19:3-8

Most Christians take seriously the covenant of marriage. Based on LC attitudes and behavior, there is another pseudo-covenant superseding the marriage covenant, that is the practice, behavior, and attitude toward quarantines is much more a covenant in and among the local churches than marriage is.
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Old 02-03-2015, 10:19 PM   #2
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Terry,
Thanks for this little tidbit. For some reason, right away, this reminded me of this particular verse:


thus making void the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And many such things you do.(Mark 7:13)

Obviously, "covenant" is something of the word of God, but quite a number of the teachings and practices that have been established in the Local Church have "made void the word of God".
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Old 02-04-2015, 12:14 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Terry View Post
From Matthew 19 regarding marriage:

Some Pharisees came to Jesus, testing Him and asking, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any reason at all?” And He answered and said, “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.” They *said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to give her a certificate of divorce and send her away?” He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way. Matthew 19:3-8

Most Christians take seriously the covenant of marriage. Based on LC attitudes and behavior, there is another pseudo-covenant superseding the marriage covenant, that is the practice, behavior, and attitude toward quarantines is much more a covenant in and among the local churches than marriage is.
Further to this, it is apparent that they often encourage an LCM-participant spouse to divorce a non-participant spouse, especially if the split in allegiance is causing any friction. In this way, there is now effectively a covenant to follow the LCM way that trumps the marriage covenant.
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Old 02-04-2015, 12:31 PM   #4
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Further to this, it is apparent that they often encourage an LCM-participant spouse to divorce a non-participant spouse, especially if the split in allegiance is causing any friction. In this way, there is now effectively a covenant to follow the LCM way that trumps the marriage covenant.
Boise and Oklahoma City come to mind. In my honest opinion, I believe many marriages would have been saved if brothers placed their covenant relationship with their wife before their meeting in the local churches. If your spouse has a problem with the direction of LSM or practices in the local churches, go meet somewhere else in order to take care of the covenant relationship with your spouse.
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Old 02-04-2015, 01:38 PM   #5
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In my honest opinion, I believe many marriages would have been saved if brothers placed their covenant relationship with their wife before their meeting in the local churches.
Recently I heard of two more divorces of long time LC leaders in the GLA. It's all just so sad. The unending pressure exerted on the sisters is almost unbearable. One leading American brother was a constant target of Titus Chu public manipulations. TC has been beating on him for close to 40 years. Shouldn't it end at some point? TC is close to 80 years, and the elder is close to 70 years, having been married almost 50 years.

At a recent Cleveland training over the holidays with TC still at the helm, TC asked the brother to stand up during the meeting, but he refused. Afterwards he told the brothers eating with him that TC was going to announce to all the saints and churches gathering, "See this brother. He needs a wife!" When I heard this, I almost threw up. It's almost unbelievable what many marriages have been forced to endure over the years. I am sure that TC has no clue all the damage he has done over the years.
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Old 02-04-2015, 02:18 PM   #6
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I am sure that TC has no clue all the damage he has done over the years.
Oh yeah? Thanks to you and many others on this forum Titus Chu has indeed heard about quite a bit about the damage he has done, and eventually it will all be exposed.
For nothing is hidden that will not be made manifest, nor is anything secret that will not be known and come to light.
Luke 8:17
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Old 02-04-2015, 03:34 PM   #7
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Oh yeah? Thanks to you and many others on this forum Titus Chu has indeed heard about quite a bit about the damage he has done, and eventually it will all be exposed.

For nothing is hidden that will not be made manifest, nor is anything secret that will not be known and come to light.
Luke 8:17
Titus Chu believes he is applying perfecting techniques recovered thru the lineage of Margaret Barber, W. Nee, and W. Lee. He thinks that if all the saints are laughing at his comments, then he has the anointing. He is convinced that when these brothers leave the LC's, it is because they cannot follow the narrow path that leads to life, and have rejected their cross in following the Lord. Just because these "recovered perfecting techniques" have no scriptural basis is besides the point.
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Old 02-04-2015, 04:14 PM   #8
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Titus Chu believes he is applying perfecting techniques recovered thru the lineage of Margaret Barber, W. Nee, and W. Lee. He thinks that if all the saints are laughing at his comments, then he has the anointing. He is convinced that when these brothers leave the LC's, it is because they cannot follow the narrow path that leads to life, and have rejected their cross in following the Lord. Just because these "recovered perfecting techniques" have no scriptural basis is besides the point.
And so TC actually believes the "deputy authority can do no wrong" teaching initially proposed by Nee and then perfected by Lee.
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Old 02-04-2015, 05:10 PM   #9
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And so TC actually believes the "deputy authority can do no wrong" teaching initially proposed by Nee and then perfected by Lee.
The mistakes and failures of his "spiritual father" are none of his business, even if it means that hundreds of his "spiritual brothers" have been mercilessly slaughtered by his "spiritual father's" paid thugs.
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Old 02-04-2015, 09:28 PM   #10
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"deputy authority can do no wrong" teaching
The fruit of deputy authority teaching is pride.

That's because as "deputy", "delegated" authority or however you phrase it, brothers in general feel they do not have to apologize for anything or to anyone, they are accountable only to God, and they are responsible to no one.
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Old 02-04-2015, 11:33 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Recently I heard of two more divorces of long time LC leaders in the GLA. It's all just so sad. The unending pressure exerted on the sisters is almost unbearable. One leading American brother was a constant target of Titus Chu public manipulations. TC has been beating on him for close to 40 years. Shouldn't it end at some point? TC is close to 80 years, and the elder is close to 70 years, having been married almost 50 years.

At a recent Cleveland training over the holidays with TC still at the helm, TC asked the brother to stand up during the meeting, but he refused. Afterwards he told the brothers eating with him that TC was going to announce to all the saints and churches gathering, "See this brother. He needs a wife!" When I heard this, I almost threw up. It's almost unbelievable what many marriages have been forced to endure over the years. I am sure that TC has no clue all the damage he has done over the years.
I used to wonder why so many elders' wives seem to keep a distance from local church activities. Even now, I'm not really sure I understand the dynamic at play there...
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Old 02-05-2015, 06:04 AM   #12
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The mistakes and failures of his "spiritual father" are none of his business, even if it means that hundreds of his "spiritual brothers" have been mercilessly slaughtered by his "spiritual father's" paid thugs.
While that appears just as true for TC as it does for Lin, I was actually referring to how TC now believes that he is effectively in the same position as far as the GLA is concerned, therefore he has seared his conscience and sees no error in his own ways. He is ignorant that his actions contrary to the words of Christ concerning leaders that lord it over their followers apply to him.

And that one comment alone should have had everyone in the LCM standing to repudiate Lee (and the same for those who should have done the same for Nee back in the late 40s) rather than declaring him the MOTA. Lee was not a MOTA. He wasn't qualified to be an elder or a deacon. He should never have been given a microphone to talk into.

But the manipulation of scripture by Nee, then Lee caused many to ignore the Bible and instead follow the ones who could not qualify under its standards for much lesser roles in the church. Why? Because we believed the lies of Nee and Lee more than the scripture which condemned them.

And add TC to that list. He may have resisted the BBs, but he is one with Nee and Lee and deputy authority. And he sees himself as a premier DA.
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Old 02-05-2015, 01:36 PM   #13
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I used to wonder why so many elders' wives seem to keep a distance from local church activities. Even now, I'm not really sure I understand the dynamic at play there...
Even here in the NW, I noticed that too. The nature of the recovery has become ministry focused, I believe it puts sisters off, because it no longer meets the need what drew these sisters to the recovery in the first place.
At best I would notice, is they would stay for the table meeting, but would leave before the prophesying meeting began. Coincidence?
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Old 02-05-2015, 11:05 PM   #14
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Even here in the NW, I noticed that too. The nature of the recovery has become ministry focused, I believe it puts sisters off, because it no longer meets the need what drew these sisters to the recovery in the first place.
At best I would notice, is they would stay for the table meeting, but would leave before the prophesying meeting began. Coincidence?
I have seen this happen enough that it's noticable, where an elder's wife doesn't want to stay the whole meeting. Imagine what an awkward position that puts an elder in. Here they are supposed to be setting an example by having a model family and marriage... at least thats what LC saints are expecting to see.
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Old 02-06-2015, 04:07 PM   #15
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I have seen this happen enough that it's noticable, where an elder's wife doesn't want to stay the whole meeting. Imagine what an awkward position that puts an elder in. Here they are supposed to be setting an example by having a model family and marriage... at least thats what LC saints are expecting to see.
On Lord's Day Morning, based on the absence of sisters not meeting or brothers meeting without their wives, I tend to think brothers place the ministry before the marriage covenant while sisters place marriage covenant before the ministry.
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Old 02-06-2015, 08:21 PM   #16
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On Lord's Day Morning, based on the absence of sisters not meeting or brothers meeting without their wives, I tend to think brothers place the ministry before the marriage covenant while sisters place marriage covenant before the ministry.
One elder's wife i knew used to say to him, "why dont you just marry the brothers?"
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Old 02-08-2015, 06:44 PM   #17
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Further to this, it is apparent that they often encourage an LCM-participant spouse to divorce a non-participant spouse, especially if the split in allegiance is causing any friction. In this way, there is now effectively a covenant to follow the LCM way that trumps the marriage covenant.
This touches on a raw nerve for me. Just recently my brother-in-law tried to insert "loyalty to the ministry" between and me and my wife (that's right Awareness I'm not a sister) regarding my decision to pull back from LSM recovery church meetings. He told her to just tell me that she would still continue to meet and he said that this "could be my salvation" (I guess I was wrong all this time thinking that my precious Lord Jesus was my salvation because it turns out that loyalty to "the ministry" is all I needed after being saved). Does anyone out there detect a shift away from loyalty to Christ to loyalty to a man's ministry? Those of you with discernment (you know the scanners of the souls of men) please answer me: What kind of spirit would direct a believer's heart away from the person of our Lord to the ministry of a man? God could only be in this if "the ministry of a man" was equivalent to "the person of the Lord". If you think these two things are congruent I fear you may have been bewitched.
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Old 02-09-2015, 05:58 AM   #18
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This touches on a raw nerve for me. Just recently my brother-in-law tried to insert "loyalty to the ministry" between and me and my wife (that's right Awareness I'm not a sister) regarding my decision to pull back from LSM recovery church meetings. He told her to just tell me that she would still continue to meet and he said that this "could be my salvation" (I guess I was wrong all this time thinking that my precious Lord Jesus was my salvation because it turns out that loyalty to "the ministry" is all I needed after being saved). Does anyone out there detect a shift away from loyalty to Christ to loyalty to a man's ministry? Those of you with discernment (you know the scanners of the souls of men) please answer me: What kind of spirit would direct a believer's heart away from the person of our Lord to the ministry of a man? God could only be in this if "the ministry of a man" was equivalent to "the person of the Lord". If you think these two things are congruent I fear you may have been bewitched.
Loyalty to a man rather than loyalty to Christ. This has long been the case. If you have something burning inside that says there is something wrong, it is challenged in terms of your oneness with the ministry, not with Christ.

What kind of spirit? One that is seeking to collect men to itself for gain. Or one that is deceived by such a spirit. Either way, it is a spirit of deception. It is centered on ones who like to be first. Who teach things for the purpose of their personal gain. Who make merchandise of the believers. (How much does a standing order cost and what benefit do you derive from it?) Know that everything that is published today is not new. Even if you like Lee's ministry, he hasn't written anything in 17 years. Every new publication is just a repackaging of what was in another book published before.

And you don't even have to read the Bible to get the "best" teachings because he told us that when he died, "it's all in the books."
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Old 02-09-2015, 01:00 PM   #19
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Loyalty to a man rather than loyalty to Christ. This has long been the case. If you have something burning inside that says there is something wrong, it is challenged in terms of your oneness with the ministry, not with Christ.
In my opinion, there has been a type of fermenting within the recovery that may have originated in Houston in regard to loyalty to a man than loyalty to Christ.
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Old 02-09-2015, 03:26 PM   #20
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In my opinion, there has been a type of fermenting within the recovery that may have originated in Houston in regard to loyalty to a man than loyalty to Christ.
I am not qualified to point to the source of this error. But Lee was always seeking loyal followers and wanted to be exalted. So no matter where the "external" push came from, it is where they are today. That is the error they have.
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Old 02-09-2015, 06:16 PM   #21
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I am not qualified to point to the source of this error. But Lee was always seeking loyal followers and wanted to be exalted. So no matter where the "external" push came from, it is where they are today. That is the error they have.
I use The Thread of Gold as an indicator. What sister Jane endured was a result of her being Christ centered instead of ministry centered.
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