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Old 01-11-2015, 03:10 AM   #1
rayliotta
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Default Pattern of LC Families Sacrificing Children on the Altar

So I think that in well-contained environments such as the local churches, aka the Lord's recovery, there is the tendency for patterns to emerge. So in this thread I'd like to bring up one such pattern that I believe I've observed over the years. This is something I've observed not only in my own locality, but also in families in other parts of the country as well. And I've encountered people on this forum who seem to have similar stories.

Call it "sacrificing on the altar," "throwing under the bus," or whatever expression we choose. I'm talking about families in which one (or, possibly, more than one) kid in the family seems to have this happen to them.

What say ye on this forum?
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Old 01-11-2015, 07:37 AM   #2
UntoHim
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Default Re: Pattern of LC Families Sacrificing Children on the Altar

I've heard it said somewhere that "families are the building blocks of the Church". I think this is very true. It is also true, I believe, that marriages are the building blocks of the family. Somehow Witness Lee and his followers have managed to reverse the whole God-ordained process - The Church is supreme, the Church is first in everything. All other matters of life become subservient to "the Body", or even worse, "the feeling of the Body". Just as Witness Lee was able to reverse the biblical dynamic of "the ministry" being for the churches into the churches being for the ministry, with a lot of help from us he was able to reverse the natural God-ordained order of the church being for marriages and families to marriages and families being for the church.

The fruit of all this ignorance of, and even reversal from, the bilblical, God-ordained order of things is now in full bloom in the Local Church movement. Of course it's much easier to see these things now looking from the outside, away from the garlic room, so to speak. When we were inside, it was "We are for the Lord's Recovery!" - "Christ and the Local Church!" The problem is that we were "putting the cart before the horse" and "couldn't see the forest for the trees".
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Old 01-11-2015, 11:40 AM   #3
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Default Re: Pattern of LC Families Sacrificing Children on the Altar

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Originally Posted by UntoHim View Post
I've heard it said somewhere that "families are the building blocks of the Church". I think this is very true. It is also true, I believe, that marriages are the building blocks of the family. Somehow Witness Lee and his followers have managed to reverse the whole God-ordained process - The Church is supreme, the Church is first in everything. All other matters of life become subservient to "the Body", or even worse, "the feeling of the Body". Just as Witness Lee was able to reverse the biblical dynamic of "the ministry" being for the churches into the churches being for the ministry, with a lot of help from us he was able to reverse the natural God-ordained order of the church being for marriages and families to marriages and families being for the church.

The fruit of all this ignorance of, and even reversal from, the bilblical, God-ordained order of things is now in full bloom in the Local Church movement. Of course it's much easier to see these things now looking from the outside, away from the garlic room, so to speak. When we were inside, it was "We are for the Lord's Recovery!" - "Christ and the Local Church!" The problem is that we were "putting the cart before the horse" and "couldn't see the forest for the trees".
What I had heard over the years is attend the meetings and the church life will take care of the marriage life and family life.
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Old 01-11-2015, 01:16 PM   #4
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Default Re: Pattern of LC Families Sacrificing Children on the Altar

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What I had heard over the years is attend the meetings and the church life will take care of the marriage life and family life.
I think this sums it up pretty well. Lee's ministry is full of this type of notion, and there are plenty of families in the LC where the "church life" is placed first.

So in regards to the children of these families, I think they tend to end up in the middle of it all. Lets face it, kids in the LC are there because their parents are, many times is obvious that some of the kids don't really like it.

I think the whole issue of families "throwing kids under the bus" usually comes to play when kids reach young adulthood. By this time most kids have either become disintersted in the LC, or have developed a growing interest in it (if for no other reason but to make their parents happy).

Here is a hypothetical situation, and similar to things that I have seen happen (multiple times). A church kid reaches adulthood and wants to date someone, and does so. The serving brothers/elders get wind of this and decide that since they weren't the ones who initiated the relationship, it needs to be torn down. The parents stay out of the situation for fear of being labeled as "negative" for standing up to the brothers. In situations like this, the parents will allow their kid to be "scarified" to avoid becoming a black sheep.
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Old 01-11-2015, 06:10 PM   #5
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Default Re: Pattern of LC Families Sacrificing Children on the Altar

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So in regards to the children of these families, I think they tend to end up in the middle of it all. Lets face it, kids in the LC are there because their parents are, many times is obvious that some of the kids don't really like it.
In regards to children raised in the local churches, I generally see three types by the time adulthood is reached:

1. They're for the ministry.
2. They're for the local church environment (service, home meetings, social networking), but not for the ministry. [this is where I was at when meeting in the local churches as an adult]. The ministry is lip service to them.
3. Directly or indirectly arrived at a point where they chose a Christian fellowship that did not include the ministry LSM publishes.
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Old 01-12-2015, 07:04 PM   #6
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Default Re: Pattern of LC Families Sacrificing Children on the Altar

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Originally Posted by Terry View Post
In regards to children raised in the local churches, I generally see three types by the time adulthood is reached:

1. They're for the ministry.
2. They're for the local church environment (service, home meetings, social networking), but not for the ministry. [this is where I was at when meeting in the local churches as an adult]. The ministry is lip service to them.
3. Directly or indirectly arrived at a point where they chose a Christian fellowship that did not include the ministry LSM publishes.
Most of those whom I grew up with would fit one of these scenarios:
1) Became disinterested in the LC and left without going to a different church.
2) Struggled in the LC throughout their childhood and then came back during adulthood and possibly attended the FTTA.
3) Stayed for the environment, as you mentioned.

I think what is at the heart of the issue is that the LC values members who are highly active. This means lots of meetings, LOTS of meetings. Meetings every night of the week, on weekends possibly multiple meetings per day. It's doable for someone who's single (assuming they're used to it). A bit harder for a married couple without kids. Once kids are in the picture, it's not easy at all. Whether intentional or not, kids are viewed as an entity that will keep members from being as active as they used to be. Ultimately this means that they LC doesn't necessarily place the value that it should upon the family. All one has to do is listen to their "young adults fellowships", and it is clear the main goal is to keep young adults active in the "church life", not so much to help them in regards to their families.

For LC kids, it can be devastating to have parents who see them as an obstruction to being more involved in the LC. Resentment can build up, then they start acting up. This wasn't the case for me, but was definitely a situation I saw more than once while growing up.

Kids are in the LC because their parents are there. Therefore, they don't live by the view of trying to rationalize everything according to the LC. This can create tension. For example, a young kid doesn't know why their family doesn't celebrate holidays, all they know is that they aren't like their friends and they get the privilege of being made fun of. Parents can't provide their kids a reasonable answer to these kinds of situations, because Lee dictated that LCers are not to celebrate certain holidays. To contradict LC teachings solely for their kids would be a bad move if they want to remain in good standing. So if the LC has enough importance to the parents, then it will naturally take place before the kids, and as the kids get older it becomes easier to just let them do their own thing than try to fix family issues or the resentment the kids have. Of course, this is just an example, there are exceptions to this like with anything in the LC. I do believe, however, that it's a troubling trend in the LC.
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Old 01-13-2015, 04:59 AM   #7
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Default Re: Pattern of LC Families Sacrificing Children on the Altar

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Originally Posted by Freedom View Post
Most of those whom I grew up with would fit one of these scenarios:
1) Became disinterested in the LC and left without going to a different church.
2) Struggled in the LC throughout their childhood and then came back during adulthood and possibly attended the FTTA.
3) Stayed for the environment, as you mentioned.
So the outcomes you mainly saw did not include a healthy move to Christianity outside of the LRC? That is sad. Either they leave everything, want to leave then give in, or just keep existing in the background.
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Old 01-13-2015, 06:22 AM   #8
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Default Re: Pattern of LC Families Sacrificing Children on the Altar

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So the outcomes you mainly saw did not include a healthy move to Christianity outside of the LRC? That is sad. Either they leave everything, want to leave then give in, or just keep existing in the background.
Yes, that is what I've seen. I don't know if the same is true in LC's elsewhere, but it seems to be the case with the ones I have seen.
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Old 01-13-2015, 07:13 AM   #9
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Default Re: Pattern of LC Families Sacrificing Children on the Altar

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So the outcomes you mainly saw did not include a healthy move to Christianity outside of the LRC? That is sad. Either they leave everything, want to leave then give in, or just keep existing in the background.
Many of the kids I knew of that grew up in the local church were seriously messed up by it, and became rebellious when older.

I remember in Miami one daughter gave me a copy of a paper she did in high school, on how King David was gay, because he loved Jonathan more than women. It blew my mind.

All her siblings, sisters, were screwed up. Then I found out it wasn't necessarily the church life that screwed them up. Her father, it turned out, a otherwise burning brother in the LC, was sexually abusing his daughters. That blew my mind too. I really liked him.

Turns out, in this case, Christ and the church failed to be the answer for such failings.

Proving that, the local church is not all that. Much of it, as it turns out, is just as illusionary as a puffball.
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Old 01-13-2015, 08:53 AM   #10
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Default Re: Pattern of LC Families Sacrificing Children on the Altar

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Many of the kids I knew of that grew up in the local church were seriously messed up by it, and became rebellious when older.

I remember in Miami one daughter gave me a copy of a paper she did in high school, on how King David was gay, because he loved Jonathan more than women. It blew my mind.

All her siblings, sisters, were screwed up. Then I found out it wasn't necessarily the church life that screwed them up. Her father, it turned out, a otherwise burning brother in the LC, was sexually abusing his daughters. That blew my mind too. I really liked him.

Turns out, in this case, Christ and the church failed to be the answer for such failings.

Proving that, the local church is not all that. Much of it, as it turns out, is just as illusionary as a puffball.
Was the alleged abuser a roofer by any chance?
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Old 01-13-2015, 09:11 AM   #11
UntoHim
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Default Re: Pattern of LC Families Sacrificing Children on the Altar

Harold,
To protect the anonymity of all concerned, please be careful in your answer here. A simple "no", "possibly" or "I don't recall" will work best.

Thanks.
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