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Old 01-05-2019, 08:07 AM   #1
aron
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Default Corporate Living

I wanted to give this question it's own thread. Others may also have insights.

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Originally Posted by Melo View Post
I appreciated you mentioning your time in corporate living. I myself could have opted for corporate living, but thankfully my parents didn't push me to. I don't think I could have handled being around that kind of environment. It's always awkward since I see the saints a lot, many of them seem perplexed that I'm not in corporate living and don't intend to be anytime soon. What was your experience with corporate living, aside from the constant bombardment of meetings? Was this during university, or later?
Melo,

Thanks for the question. Looking back, I'd say that corporate living was a key tool in the socialization into this group. (what follows is from years later, and my observations, and may no longer be applicable).

I was a twenty-something college student who clearly needed structure. Today, looking back, that makes sense, and living there may have saved me from recklessness and dissipation. (But I could say the same thing had I gone into the Mormons or the JWs or Moonies.)

Thing was, it didn't just preserve one from "religious Babylon" and "the world", but more importantly it gave multiple venues for the LSM teachings to be inculcated. We'd get up, have "morning watch" where we prayed over Holy Word for Morning Revival booklets, then off to our school/job. Then we'd be in meetings most nights: home meetings, college meetings, prayer meetings, ministry meetings, Sunday morning - of course - Lord's Table meetings. Saturday/Sunday afternoons we'd go visit new ones, or help with moving people, loading and unloading furniture and boxes from vans and pickup trucks, or go on outings, where a family or two would bring several students to the lakeside park. Other times we'd tend the meeting hall and it's grounds, as well as cleaning the Brother's House + upkeep. We were viewed as free labour, which somewhat evened out our subsidized housing (usually we paid less-than-market value [but we were squeezed in bunk beds, 4 to a room!]).

People left corporate housing by getting married. What would typically happen is that a young single person would be there, year after year, "going on with the Lord" and "going on in the church" and "going on with the brothers", and at some point Elder 'A' in Locality 'X' would contact Elder 'B' in Locality 'Y' and they'd compare notes (usually they knew prospective ones first-hand because localities would have regional conferences); then Single Brother 'B' would get introduced and married to Single Sister 'S', and that was end of corporate housing! Actually, when you think of it, they just switch Brother's House and Sister's House for Married House; it's still corporate.

I was in this "pipeline", as GG once called it, for a number of years, during university and after. Eventually I left - the whole thing about despising the poor bothered me greatly, and I argued with the FTTA 'trainer' in front of our group. And the "we are it" thing bothered me. . people should presume nothing, absolutely nothing, before they get to the Bema - Jesus had made this only too clear. The LSM/LC superiority complex, usually veiled but occasionally obvious, always struck me as opposite of what Jesus had taught. (but I just didn't think about it. . pray-read another verse. . get "back to your spirit").

In my case, upon leaving I moved into a homeless shelter - I had no other place to go. My job was in a business owned by a LC member, so I lost that. My family had become totally alienated. I still believed all the theology (ground of oneness, God's economy etc) but had no idea what to do with it all. But my LC experience was neither aligned with nor following the Jesus so plainly and repeatedly testified of in the 4 gospels. So I left, eventually having what some might call a 'street ministry'. . whether I've pleased the Lord or not, the Lord knows. . the journey isn't yet over.

Again, others' experiences or observations may be quite different, and they can add or subtract to what's been written here.
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Old 01-05-2019, 10:44 AM   #2
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Default Re: Corporate Living

Thank you for sharing your testimony/experience in corporate living Aron. Recently I was pondering how I own a home.. ok.. still paying on it! I never had direction as to a 'career' either from my parents or from the LC. (Interesting how in the mid 70s, Lee had a 'burden' to have LCrs go to college and also recruit college people. The reason for it was clearly to bring in money to him and his projects.

I should be homeless but for the GRACE and I do mean GRACE and MERCY of Almighty God, my Heavenly Father had other plans for me. That's not to say my spiritual journey has been easy. Surely I have experienced John 16:33
In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

My personal trib however has really brought me closer to the LORD..the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. I am a happy pappy..and the forever optimist. No weapon formed against me is going to pull me down. I trust the Precious Blood of Jesus one thousand percent and more to protect me, to cover me and to constantly I have learned their a lot about their different functions even though ALMIGHTY GOD is ONE GOD.

As to my experience of corporate living, I somewhat enjoyed it but I felt I could not be 'friends' with the sisters I lived with after I moved to another sisters' home. While I was in that sisters household, we were 'friends' as friends can be in the LC. When I moved to a different sisters' home, I felt I could only fellowship when we were at the meeting halls or in a group setting. Rarely one on one friendship. That's my regret as I am quite a friendly and outgoing person. That's not to say I have not had my share of butting heads with people.

I was not a 'troublemaking' sister as I heard some were. I heard one sister eloped with an LC brother to Vegas.
When they returned and after a scolding of sorts, the sister went back to live with the sisters for a short time..and the brother as well.. they then got their own place.
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Old 01-05-2019, 11:20 AM   #3
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That's interesting countmeworthy,about your experience living with the saints in a sisters house. When I was in the church in San Diego I lived in several different brothers houses. The one above the meeting hall, 2 times with Huston Sorells in 2 different houses. At Ocean Beach with Paul Seppo and a few other bros. And with Kim Toolys bro house. I felt like we got herded around like cattle sometimes. But for the most part it was a good expirence. It was other things that bugged me in the church,the control and having to conform to the party line and the attitude we had about christians that weren't in the church.
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Old 01-05-2019, 12:06 PM   #4
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I don't remember Kim Tooly. I don't remember a bro house in Ocean Beach but I do remember visiting OB a few times to share the gospel there. I was
fresh 'off the streets' newly saved when I moved in with Les and Carolyn Cites and the sisters..Melody, Colleen, and a few others. I felt like I was in BOOT CAMP! LOL.. I even told Les and Carolyn that.. in sweet jest of course. I really loved them and still do.

From there I moved in with Mike and Debbie Nolly. Very different type of 'boot camp' there too. I loved them too and still do. Paul Seppo was a trip! He cracked me up. He was a really good guitar player if I recall correctly. I thought he and Debbie who he married made a cute, good couple. Later they left and got divorced I heard. How sad.

I remember living with a sister who plucked my very last nerve. After much agony and prayer, the Lord put a love in my spirit for her. She is still in the LC.. in Anaheim now.

Living with married couples was hard!!

As a reminder, the church in San Diego in the 70s was a 'young people's church' made up of a lot of singles.
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Old 01-05-2019, 12:36 PM   #5
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Oh you bring back a lot of memories,the saints were so dear! Mike and Debbie Nolly were so good,he always encouraged me. And Paul Seppo was a great guitar player and could always make you laugh with his stories, we had such good fellowship in the bros house when we were in ocean beach,singing songs and fellowshiping.Willie Samoff would always come over and see what we were up to.actually being with those young saints (I was only 22-23) at the time, informal fellowship was more enjoyable then going to meetings for me.
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Old 01-05-2019, 03:05 PM   #6
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Oh you bring back a lot of memories,the saints were so dear! Mike and Debbie Nolly were so good,he always encouraged me. And Paul Seppo was a great guitar player and could always make you laugh with his stories, we had such good fellowship in the bros house when we were in ocean beach,singing songs and fellowshipping. Willie Samoff would always come over and see what we were up to.actually being with those young saints (I was only 22-23) at the time, informal fellowship was more enjoyable then going to meetings for me.
It's good to 'see' someone else from San Diego confirm what I have shared over the years about my experience in San Diego. When everyone has shared about quarantines, etc, I felt like a foreigner. We did not experience any of the negative experiences so many people had under W Lee! Most people here on the forum that were never in San Diego or visited the LC there had such terrible and sad experiences! We really did have a great church life for the most part especially compared to what most experienced here. I credit John Smith, Willie Samoff, Roger Beck and to a lesser extent Les Cites. I think Les was the more legalistic of the elders but I needed the discipline under his and Carolyn's leadership.

We had so many 'singings' in homes that were so much fun. Do you remember Mark Kapusta? He led me to the Lord and to the LC.

Mike and Debbie are still in the LC somewhere.

Perhaps we will have a heavenly reunion in the Holy City New Jerusalem!
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Old 01-05-2019, 04:18 PM   #7
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I lived in a brothers house in Houston, and then while in Irving I stayed in 10 different homes as a full timer, about 6 weeks on average, I lived in corporate living in Odessa, at first with a brother that owned a house, and then when he got married moved to a brothers apartment with three others. In NY I stayed in Dunton house.

The best thing about corporate living are the saints you get to know and build a relationship with. There are many, many experiences that are far more practical and far more real when in corporate living.

I remember one conference we were totally broke, some of the brothers felt we couldn't have hospitality, but we decided to just trust the Lord for it and it was a great experience.

You get to know the saints as people and you have twice as much fellowship as you might otherwise have. When I was in the brothers house we were always being invited to saints home as a "house", they would invite all four or five of us. You are much more integrally connected to the saints.
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Old 01-05-2019, 05:01 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by countmeworthy View Post
It's good to 'see' someone else from San Diego confirm what I have shared over the years about my experience in San Diego. When everyone has shared about quarantines, etc, I felt like a foreigner. We did not experience any of the negative experiences so many people had under W Lee! Most people here on the forum that were never in San Diego or visited the LC there had such terrible and sad experiences! We really did have a great church life for the most part especially compared to what most experienced here. I credit John Smith, Willie Samoff, Roger Beck and to a lesser extent Les Cites. I think Les was the more legalistic of the elders but I needed the discipline under his and Carolyn's leadership.

We had so many 'singings' in homes that were so much fun. Do you remember Mark Kapusta? He led me to the Lord and to the LC.

Mike and Debbie are still in the LC somewhere.

Perhaps we will have a heavenly reunion in the Holy City New Jerusalem!
I agree countmeworthy,there were some good shepherding brothers to watch over the saints in San Diego,and afforded protection from some of the stuff that was going on at that time. I remember Mark Kapusta,he was in the Navy when he came in the church I believe. I've really enjoyed getting in the 'way back machine' with you recalling some good times with the saints. You are right we will all have a Glorious reunion with all the saints in that day we're either raised or changed and caught up to be forever with the Lord Jesus to be with Him!
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Old 01-05-2019, 05:13 PM   #9
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I lived in a brothers house in Houston, and then while in Irving I stayed in 10 different homes as a full timer, about 6 weeks on average, I lived in corporate living in Odessa, at first with a brother that owned a house, and then when he got married moved to a brothers apartment with three others. In NY I stayed in Dunton house.

The best thing about corporate living are the saints you get to know and build a relationship with. There are many, many experiences that are far more practical and far more real when in corporate living.

I remember one conference we were totally broke, some of the brothers felt we couldn't have hospitality, but we decided to just trust the Lord for it and it was a great experience.

You get to know the saints as people and you have twice as much fellowship as you might otherwise have. When I was in the brothers house we were always being invited to saints home as a "house", they would invite all four or five of us. You are much more integrally connected to the saints.
Great testimony!! My thoughts exactly! Thank you for sharing your positive experience. I believe and it is my personal oinion, the corporate living we experienced is unique to the LC. It may not have been like that everywhere but there are 3 of us here on the forum that have good memories of our time in the LC. Hope to hear more experiences from the group here.
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Old 01-05-2019, 06:42 PM   #10
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the corporate living we experienced is unique to the LC. It may not have been like that everywhere but there are 3 of us here on the forum that have good memories...
I had a great time as well. The singing, especially the spontaneous informal singing in smaller groups, was occasionally first-rate. It was a good experience, including the corporate living. But one day the Holy Spirit said, "Go", and I left. There were further adventures waiting. Christ was waiting out there, in the highways and hedges, with the lonely and the frightened and the dispossessed.
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Old 01-06-2019, 03:06 AM   #11
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"Great testimony!! My thoughts exactly! Thank you for sharing your positive experience. I believe and it is my personal oinion, the corporate living we experienced is unique to the LC. It may not have been like that everywhere but there are 3 of us here on the forum that have good memories of our time in the LC. Hope to hear more experiences from the group here."

When I was in college the Navigators had communal living during the summers where many college kids would move to a city and live in together while working. My sons participated in summer projects with a different ministry where they lived and worked together. So, I don't think there is anything positive that is unique to the Recovery. But, the Recovery is certainly unique in several negative things.
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Old 01-06-2019, 03:33 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
I lived in a brothers house in Houston, and then while in Irving I stayed in 10 different homes as a full timer, about 6 weeks on average, I lived in corporate living in Odessa, at first with a brother that owned a house, and then when he got married moved to a brothers apartment with three others. In NY I stayed in Dunton house.

The best thing about corporate living are the saints you get to know and build a relationship with. There are many, many experiences that are far more practical and far more real when in corporate living.

I remember one conference we were totally broke, some of the brothers felt we couldn't have hospitality, but we decided to just trust the Lord for it and it was a great experience.

You get to know the saints as people and you have twice as much fellowship as you might otherwise have. When I was in the brothers house we were always being invited to saints home as a "house", they would invite all four or five of us. You are much more integrally connected to the saints.
Enjoyed your testimony! Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. Philippians 4:8
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Therefore thus saith Jehovah: If thou return, then will I bring thee again, thou shalt stand before me; and if thou take forth the precious from the vile, thou shalt be as my mouth. Let them return unto thee; but return not thou unto them.
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Old 01-06-2019, 09:05 AM   #13
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When I was in college the Navigators had communal living during the summers where many college kids would move to a city and live in together while working. My sons participated in summer projects with a different ministry where they lived and worked together. So, I don't think there is anything positive that is unique to the Recovery. But, the Recovery is certainly unique in several negative things.
I am forever grateful for my time in the LC. I don't like calling it 'the recovery' because about the time it was being called that through Lee's instructions, it was becoming legalistic which is something the LC taught against when I first came in. I had positive experiences in the LC as did a few others on this forum. The Word of God truly became rooted and grounded in me. I learned to pray, to touch the Face of God. I have often said the church in San Diego was blessed to have good teachers.

Those experiences are certainly unique considering the negative experiences many people here on the forum experienced.

I am not one to throw out the baby with the dirty bath water. And while I am thankful for my time there, I am equally thankful I am no longer there.
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Old 01-06-2019, 09:13 AM   #14
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I had a great time as well. The singing, especially the spontaneous informal singing in smaller groups, was occasionally first-rate. It was a good experience, including the corporate living. But one day the Holy Spirit said, "Go", and I left. There were further adventures waiting. Christ was waiting out there, in the highways and hedges, with the lonely and the frightened and the dispossessed.
INDEED! INDEED!!
I am reminded of Matthew 28:19
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the Name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
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Old 01-06-2019, 11:34 AM   #15
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I am forever grateful for my time in the LC. I don't like calling it 'the recovery' because about the time it was being called that through Lee's instructions, it was becoming legalistic which is something the LC taught against when I first came in. I had positive experiences in the LC as did a few others on this forum. The Word of God truly became rooted and grounded in me. I learned to pray, to touch the Face of God. I have often said the church in San Diego was blessed to have good teachers.

Those experiences are certainly unique considering the negative experiences many people here on the forum experienced.

I am not one to throw out the baby with the dirty bath water. And while I am thankful for my time there, I am equally thankful I am no longer there.
By leaving Leeís LC you inherently throw the baby out with the bath water or defy your own conscious. Either Lee and his recovery are what he claimed or heís a false teacher. The baby is The recovery and Lee is the bath water. The Spirit working through Godís word is not dependent on Lee or his recovery.

Thank our holy God and his grace who calls you to touch His face - not Lee and his organization.
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Old 01-06-2019, 12:32 PM   #16
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By leaving Lee’s LC you inherently throw the baby out with the bath water or defy your own conscious. Either Lee and his recovery are what he claimed or he’s a false teacher. The baby is The recovery and Lee is the bath water. The Spirit working through God’s word is not dependent on Lee or his recovery.

Thank our holy God and his grace who calls you to touch His face - not Lee and his organization.
I was saved in January 1975. I moved in with a sisters home who were living with an elder and his wife/family in the LC. There was no mention of Lee for the first 4 months I was in the home. I still remember when Les began telling me about Lee and I listened to a tape of his. I could not understand his broken English language.

Our fellowship consisted of reading the Word mostly from the NT. I learned we had a spirit in addition to our soul and mortal body. I had never heard that growing up Catholic. We called Sunday, Sunday not "Lord's day". I remember reading my first "Life study" and it was Romans. Hard to understand. Then we went into reading the Life Study of John. I really liked that study! Soon after we began the life study of Genesis which blew me away!

I remember the 'training' on Hebrews. Oh how I prayed God would help me understand it! He answered my prayers and to this day, it is one of my favorite if not my favorite books of the bible. Btw, since then I have learned a lot more about Hebrews that I'm sure is not taught in the LSM. I don't remember how much Lee taught on the Power of the Blood of Jesus but John Smith had mini conferences teaching on the Precious Blood. It was in my time in the LC I first experienced the Power of the Blood of Jesus working in me, cleansing me and protecting me. Since leaving the LC I have continued to experience and even in a more powerful way the Precious Blood of the Lamb. It was in the LC I learned about the church in Thyatira being represented by the RCC. And today many, many believers are on board that the RCC is Thyatira and mystery Babylon. "COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLEthat ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." Revelation 18:4

Btw I went to the Revelation part 1 training and Lee of course taught it. By then I had heard a lot about Lee and Nee and had several of their books. Most were hard for me to understand. Still I was ok with Lee and Nee's teachings.

But the 'one publication' stuff.. the morning revival stuff.. the blendeds.. the FTTA... now that's the dirty bath water to me that I throw out.
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Old 01-06-2019, 04:24 PM   #17
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By leaving Leeís LC you inherently throw the baby out with the bath water or defy your own conscious. Either Lee and his recovery are what he claimed or heís a false teacher. The baby is The recovery and Lee is the bath water. The Spirit working through Godís word is not dependent on Lee or his recovery.

Thank our holy God and his grace who calls you to touch His face - not Lee and his organization.
Here is a post script (Part 1) that came to me a bit later after I posted my last reply on this topic.

I don't think Lee was a false teacher per sae. I don't believe he knew the bible as much as he claimed he knew.. nor do I believe he truly had a deep walk/relationship with the Lord as it appeared to the saints he did.


He did get some things right imho. For example:
It was through his teachings, I learned to address my prayers to the Lord Jesus. I know there was a lot of vain repetition when we called on the Name of the Lord. Some of it may not have been from a pure heart but there were meetings either in the hall building or in home meetings where the Presence of the Lord was very strong. Our prayers were not "O GOD.. O GOD.. blah blah blah.. in the Name of Jesus". Our prayers were full of Praises and directed to the Lord Jesus.

Jesus told Thomas in John 14:6
I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Yet, say what you will, but the LC did address the Lord Jesus. One other reason I was drawn to the LC is because 4 months before I truly got saved, I was very perplexed by my lifestyle of living. One evening I wrote a 'Dear God' letter. While I was writing, I heard a Voice to call on JESUS. To pray to JESUS. I also heard another voice telling me 'Skip the middle man and go straight to GOD'

When I got saved, Who was it I prayed to?? The Lord Jesus. And I will tell you His Spirit really came into my spirit!

That said, I associate with a lot of Christians. Some go to church.. others like myself don't. I also attend a weekly bible study at a home which I enjoy immensely. We are not on the same page nor do the people go to the same church.

What I have observed from those I know is that rarely does anyone pray to the Lord Jesus. God forgive me if I am out of line with what I am about to say but most are weak Christians who require a lot of milk. I try to feed the sheep with tender loving care, not a haughty attitude.

There was a time I did jump on the bandwagon and prayed 'O GOD.. PRAISE GOD!' But it did not work for me. I don't think I applied the Blood of the Lamb on me either. I was viciously attacked spiritually and emotionally. And TWICE physically!!!! Those that attacked me physically were very worldly 'believers'. I won't go into the details but I truly believe had I called on the Lord Jesus.. not in the same way as we did in the LC, screaming and hollering, but with my heart in true assurance of Faith, applying the Protection of the Blood of Jesus on me, the attack would not have occurred.

I have done in depth studies of the functions of the Father, the Son, Who is the WORD OF GOD, JESUS, and the Holy Spirit.

There are times I address our Heavenly Father. Most times I address Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. My spiritual and emotional life has truly changed.

Bottom line. Through Lee and Nee's teachings, I learned to address our Lord Jesus Christ in my prayers and meditations. For that I am very thankful. This is my personal testimony. It may not be yours or your experience. I respect that if it is not your experience.

End of part 1
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Old 01-06-2019, 05:30 PM   #18
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By leaving Lee’s LC you inherently throw the baby out with the bath water or defy your own conscious. Either Lee and his recovery are what he claimed or he’s a false teacher. The baby is The recovery and Lee is the bath water. The Spirit working through God’s word is not dependent on Lee or his recovery.

Thank our holy God and his grace who calls you to touch His face - not Lee and his organization.
Part 2

Another quick testimony about a revelation I received 4-5 months after being in the LC. I was having lunch at a home that had a painting of a loaf of bread on a cutting board. John 6:35 was written below the board. It said:
And Jesus said unto them, I am the Bread of Life: he that cometh to Me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on Me shall never thirst.

As I stared at it, I GOT IT! I understood what Jesus meant! I had been eating and drinking Jesus along with the saints!

I assure you not many believers outside the LC understand that scripture. And possibly many LSMrs don't either.


While Lee got some things right, he was a hypocrite.

How could he not repent and pay restitution to the saints who lost money on the Daystar RV debacle?

Why were not his wife and kids active participators with the LC saints when he vehemently preached on the 'building up of the church/saints, the glorious church life? Did they see through him? To my knowledge his family was never an intricate part or very little part of the LC family. The business aspect does not count.

How could he not condemn Phillip and Timothy's actions?


How could he continue preaching / teaching with a pure heart the Word of God without a public repentence?

He criticized 'poor, poor Christianity' while manipulating the saints into thinking there was nothing better out there... much like the manipulation of the Roman Catholic church teaching that the RCC is 'the one true church'. How different is his teaching from the RCC's teaching? HYPOCRITE!!

The spirit of pride and manipulation grabbed hold of his heart if you ask me.

I am reminded of Matthew 7:23
Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’

Not saying Lee is not in heaven but it is a fact not everyone who says "LORD, LORD' did we not prophesy in Your Name will enter the kingdom of heaven.

The tongue is a fire. We are told in James 3:1
Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment (greater condemnation) .


We really need to be careful, humble and before the LORD when God begins using people to teach and preach.

While I do not believe a person who is truly saved by the Blood of the Lamb can lose their salvation, I do believe Christians can lose their rewards. Only God will judge Witness Lee. And for that matter, all of us, including me.

We are told in 2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

The judgment seat of Christ is different from the Great White throne judgement reserved for the unbelievers who rejected the shed Blood of Jesus for their sins and transgressions. We will not lose our salvation at the Judgement seat of Christ. We go there to get our rewards or promotions.l

Furthermore, I do not believe that Lee or Nee learned to rightly divide the Word of Truth completely as instructed in 1 Timothy 2:15 That's another story for another time.

However we are all a work in progress. God through His Word, CHRIST JESUS and His Holy Spirit began a most excellent work in us and He is going to complete and perfect it. God also gave to each one of us grace according to the measure of Christ’s Gift...And He gave gifts to men.” Ephesians 4:7-8 That includes Lee and Nee.

May we all come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
Praise His Holy and Glorious Name.

uh-burree. uh-burree..uh-burree that's all folks !
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Old 01-07-2019, 07:19 AM   #19
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My experience in corporate living was nearly all positive. Many rewarding and fun times with like-minded brothers. Living together with brothers definitely helped financially to put myself thru college. Some of us were basically dirt poor, but we were joyful in Christ.

The only downside was the manipulations by "the brothers" -- I must have lived in 7 different brothers' houses in the first year or two. Titus Chu owned remtal properties in Cleveland, so brothers were often shuffled around to keep them full. There definitely was a military mindset in place back in those days, in fact at one point an older brother told me, "you are in the Lord's army, and you will be told where to move to."

It was the endless controls and manipulations like these that brought the blessing of the Lord to an end. It's calling "lording it over the elect." I guess He was serious when He told us that He was the Lord, and the Head of the church.
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Old 01-07-2019, 09:09 AM   #20
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Here is a post script (Part 1) that came to me a bit later after I posted my last reply on this topic.

I don't think Lee was a false teacher per sae. I don't believe he knew the bible as much as he claimed he knew.. nor do I believe he truly had a deep walk/relationship with the Lord as it appeared to the saints he did.


He did get some things right imho. For example:
It was through his teachings, I learned to address my prayers to the Lord Jesus. I know there was a lot of vain repetition when we called on the Name of the Lord. Some of it may not have been from a pure heart but there were meetings either in the hall building or in home meetings where the Presence of the Lord was very strong. Our prayers were not "O GOD.. O GOD.. blah blah blah.. in the Name of Jesus". Our prayers were full of Praises and directed to the Lord Jesus.

Jesus told Thomas in John 14:6
I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Yet, say what you will, but the LC did address the Lord Jesus. One other reason I was drawn to the LC is because 4 months before I truly got saved, I was very perplexed by my lifestyle of living. One evening I wrote a 'Dear God' letter. While I was writing, I heard a Voice to call on JESUS. To pray to JESUS. I also heard another voice telling me 'Skip the middle man and go straight to GOD'

When I got saved, Who was it I prayed to?? The Lord Jesus. And I will tell you His Spirit really came into my spirit!

That said, I associate with a lot of Christians. Some go to church.. others like myself don't. I also attend a weekly bible study at a home which I enjoy immensely. We are not on the same page nor do the people go to the same church.

What I have observed from those I know is that rarely does anyone pray to the Lord Jesus. God forgive me if I am out of line with what I am about to say but most are weak Christians who require a lot of milk. I try to feed the sheep with tender loving care, not a haughty attitude.

There was a time I did jump on the bandwagon and prayed 'O GOD.. PRAISE GOD!' But it did not work for me. I don't think I applied the Blood of the Lamb on me either. I was viciously attacked spiritually and emotionally. And TWICE physically!!!! Those that attacked me physically were very worldly 'believers'. I won't go into the details but I truly believe had I called on the Lord Jesus.. not in the same way as we did in the LC, screaming and hollering, but with my heart in true assurance of Faith, applying the Protection of the Blood of Jesus on me, the attack would not have occurred.

I have done in depth studies of the functions of the Father, the Son, Who is the WORD OF GOD, JESUS, and the Holy Spirit.

There are times I address our Heavenly Father. Most times I address Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. My spiritual and emotional life has truly changed.

Bottom line. Through Lee and Nee's teachings, I learned to address our Lord Jesus Christ in my prayers and meditations. For that I am very thankful. This is my personal testimony. It may not be yours or your experience. I respect that if it is not your experience.

End of part 1
Countmeworthy, this is an interesting testimony. I always enjoy your posts, btw. My experience was quite different. After receiving Jesus and the Holy Spirit at the moment of my conversion, I went home to my unsaved roomates, (two sweet young men), no church life, and 'only' the indwelling Holy Spirit to guide me. Jesus gave me an insatiable hunger for the word of God, which I was in daily. I began praying to God through Christ Jesus name, immediately, nightly. I would pray until I fell asleep. He guided me into this newborn christian life. I could not find a church where I meshed ( sure that is my fault, no one elses) for a long time. Actually the Lee church was my first church. But I guess my point is, it was the Lord who taught me to pray into His name. I had no examples before me, not even christian television. I never really trusted tv preachers. I knew no christians, had no christian friends or fellowship. He guided me into all reality, the Holy Spirit! I hate for the Lee church to get any credit! I believe, He is our guiding shepherd, and would have ushered you into a normal christian life without The Recovery.

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Old 01-07-2019, 09:47 AM   #21
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Titus Chu owned rental properties in Cleveland, so brothers were often shuffled around to keep them full..
Conflict of interest.

Thankfully I was spared this kind of abuse, but I was aware of it. It was a dysfunctional family for sure - if anyone got the proverbial lash, the rest hunkered down & were grateful it wasn't them.

I did see church elders take cash from unbelievers who rented church-owned properties. I found that a dismaying sight, after all the speeches about being a spotless bride, unsullied by the world.
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Old 01-07-2019, 10:12 AM   #22
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Conflict of interest.

I did see church elders take cash from unbelievers who rented church-owned properties. I found that a dismaying sight, after all the speeches about being a spotless bride, unsullied by the world.
I have been on both sides of the issue here, knowing how difficult it can be to break even renting to church people. Renting to the Gentile public is much easier. "Separation of church and state" is a safeguard for the church.

It's really best that ministers trust the Lord for their living and service rather than using the saints' volunteer labor for their personal gains. In this regard Cleveland was little different than Anaheim.

My point was the endless shuffling back in those early days. Even years later I often had the impression that LC leaders often viewed their role as chess players moving pieces around for best advantage.
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Old 01-08-2019, 07:40 PM   #23
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Countmeworthy, this is an interesting testimony. I always enjoy your posts, btw.
Thank you for reading my posts. I try to be encouraging as well as being 'fair and balanced'. My tenure in the LC was a very short time compared to most. 1975 to about 1978/79. But I was quite immersed in the 'glorious church life' during my time there. As someone once said 'you can leave the LC physically but it is much harder to remove the LC out of your system'.

Quote:
Jesus gave me an insatiable hunger for the word of God, which I was in daily. I began praying to God through Christ Jesus name, immediately, nightly. I would pray until I fell asleep. He guided me into this newborn christian life. I could not find a church where I meshed ( sure that is my fault, no one elses) for a long time.
I don't think you are at fault for not finding a 'church'. The LORD wanted you all to HIMSELF. He did not want you to get polluted by man's teachings..man manipulating His Holy Word. Perhaps He was protecting you.

Quote:
Actually the Lee church was my first church. But I guess my point is, it was the Lord who taught me to pray into His name. I had no examples before me, not even christian television. I never really trusted tv preachers. I knew no christians, had no christian friends or fellowship. He guided me into all reality, the Holy Spirit! I hate for the Lee church to get any credit! I believe, He is our guiding shepherd, and would have ushered you into a normal christian life without The Recovery.
What an amazing testimony! Loved it. Thank you for sharing it with us.
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