What This Forum Means To You. What It Should Be.

[UntoHim]

What This Forum Means To You. What This Forum Should Be.

Two purposes here.
#1 What does this forum mean to you. Please try to detach yourself from the persons and personalities as best you can. I know this may be really hard for some of us, but take a shot at it.
#2 If you had a magical wand and could make this forum to be exactly what you wanted it to be....tell us what it might look like.

This is an open book test. There are not right or wrong answers. I'm just one of the test takers here and don't have time to give my answers right now.

[OBW]

I must admit that this forum has diminished in importance to me. And for various reasons. But mainly because I have less personal need for information and processing concerning the LRC now.

But this forum is the only place that gives actual discussion of the LRC a chance to happen in a mostly unhindered fashion. The LSM/DCP goons haven't seemed to even bother trying to shut us down. And the predecessor over at the Bereans was too often hijacked by irrelevancies of the hosts. Along with their over-tolerance of off-topic nonsense. (We've had a little of that here, but I think Unto has managed to get a better handle on how much oversight to exert. Not perfect. But who is?)



At some level, a magic wand should:

• Make us so that we are willing to accept that we don't agree. To build our case for our position rather than just rant when it is not agreed with. And start with the presumption that the thing disagreed with or being critiqued is the post, not the person. Quit taking disagreement personally.
• Establish strong moderation that has the time to evenly enforce certain kinds of rules, like off-topic posts, baiting, trolling, etc. Maybe the likes of Harold and zeek would have altered their ways before we kind of ganged up on them and they saw nothing left to do but leave. I fear that is more their loss than ours, but that is my opinion.
• We need to accept that written communication is not perfect and start with the presumption that the most negative way to take something is the wrong way to start out. Instead assume the best and go forward with it. Assume that there is a misunderstanding rather than an attack.
• Unfortunately, one of my wishes is for the return of some of the people who thought it was worthwhile to actually dissect Lee's teachings rather than just snip at them or instead just talk about the bad leadership. There is plenty to say about the bad leadership. But I believe it was an environment void of true spiritual/scriptural teaching that could allow such bad leadership on such a grand scale. So being disinterested in it seems to miss the core of what was wrong with the LRC from before most of us had ever even heard of it.
• Willingness to critique Nee along with Lee. Even after we began to see Nee's errors, most still just sort of wave it away. (Kind of like Father Guido Sarducci says the Vatican waved one miracle to finally get an American Saint. (really old SNL))

Mostly, I always hope that we will learn to be open to a different perspective. As long as we continue to think only like we were already taught, we are doomed to follow the same paths and patterns. And even when I think I disagree with something, I at least consider it. And try to see it from the perspective of the other person before I dismiss it. I have learned some things that way. Some of them have made significant changes in my thinking and beliefs. (And not all are about the LRC. I'm talking about things outside this forum.)

[OBW]

I note that this is not the first era of contention on this forum. The first one was nearly catastrophic. I did a postmortem on a particularly ugly thread some time back with someone else and we both learned something. Mostly that we all had things we intended to say but it was not quite what was actually said. And we all read things the way we thought they were rather than how they actually were. Fault was everywhere. One post would say one thing and an immediate reply to it was sometimes almost unrecognizable as talking about the same thing.

And there was unwillingness all over the place to see things other than in each of our own ways. There was little willingness to understand each other but instead lay out accusations. Several long-time participants left and never returned.

And every few months, someone new would find that thread, read the last few posts and take off from there with some question or comment that would soon turn into a repeat performance. We are human and frail. It included me.

There have been a couple of lesser events, but they were all marked by one thing — a "let's get the $*&@^#'s" attitude that became infectious. Rather than challenging positions, we began to challenge each other.

The LRC is a volatile topic for some. I believe that once a thread begins to have too much heat, there needs to be some water thrown on it in some way to keep it from spontaneous combustion. When KTS and Igzy start to say there is a bad actor in the house, it is probably serious. KTS doesn't say much about anyone unless truly provoked. I've accused him of being too soft on everything, so when he speaks out like he just did, take note.

But at the same time, the fact that it got this way indicates that we need more control. And if we can't control ourselves, then we need better moderation. And our current Topiq Nazi does not have the time for what we just might need.

And I really don't think you want me to do it. That could be bad. So who will help Unto with the job? Who can remain detached from the personalities and content enough to be even-handed? The only person to ever take it on and do it as well as required is among those no longer with us. It is unfortunate. But he probably didn't have the time for it then. Surely not now. And neither does Unto.

So how do we solve this?

[Cal]

What the forum means to me:

1. It's a place (along with the erstwhile forum) where I worked out some of my beliefs about Lee, the LRC and my past.
   
   
2. It's a place I feel called participate in to give my honest, frank assessment of what Lee and LRC were and are about, what we can learn from that, and how that can help us and others in the future.
   
   
3. It's the only place I know to interact with people who have a similar history to me.

As the Lord has healed and reprogrammed me, I feel less of a need to post here for my own therapy. That is practically gone. Mostly I do it now because I think there may be someone out there who can benefit from my experience and insights.

Frankly, when I think about the audacity of the way Lee, LSM and the LRC leadership manipulates and uses people it makes me very upset. I have a high sense of injustice when I think about it. I want people to be warned about them. As the Lord shows me more, I feel even more indignant and bold, and even more compelled to share what I've seen.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Igzy

Frankly, when I think about the audacity of the way Lee, LSM and the LRC leadership manipulates and uses people it makes me very upset. I have a high sense of injustice when I think about it. I want people to be warned about them. As the Lord shows me more, I feel even more indignant and bold, and even more compelled to share what I've seen.

Amen, Amen, and Amen.

Originally Posted by UntoHim

What This Forum Means To You. What This Forum Should Be.

Two purposes here.
#1 What does this forum mean to you. Please try to detach yourself from the persons and personalities as best you can. I know this may be really hard for some of us, but take a shot at it.
#2 If you had a magical wand and could make this forum to be exactly what you wanted it to be....tell us what it might look like.

This is an open book test. There are not right or wrong answers. I'm just one of the test takers here and don't have time to give my answers right now.

After reading 80% of the threads I realized this was not a place to hang my hat... To me what you have here is a forum full of people blind to the Spirit of God, and open to all negtiveness , sound familiar, say the prince of this world. I was active back in 75 and on in the church then for years, again here in the last 5 years or so, and most of the statements here are from Christians that wouldn't know there Spirit if some handed it to them. Your forum contains, slander, and hearese according to the word. Divisions ln the Body, Sound like the Lords doing? I think not....In my 57 years I have never had a group get me on track, and given to the Lord and his word, that is in a absolute way, I dough many can say they are total given to the Lords will. Not to worry all things will be judged in the end by HE who was, and is , and every shall be. you should rename the forum Satans Forum for Christian persacutation.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

What This Forum Means To You. What This Forum Should Be.

Two purposes here.
#1 What does this forum mean to you. Please try to detach yourself from the persons and personalities as best you can. I know this may be really hard for some of us, but take a shot at it.
#2 If you had a magical wand and could make this forum to be exactly what you wanted it to be....tell us what it might look like.

This is an open book test. There are not right or wrong answers. I'm just one of the test takers here and don't have time to give my answers right now.

Titus 1:5 "For this cause I left you in Crete to set in order the things that are wanting".

To me, I hope we can play a part in setting in order the things of the LRC that are wanting. On the one hand we have clearly identified some errors and things that are wanting, but on the other hand we can testify that we were genuine seekers of Jesus and that many of the saints still in the LRC are also.

I think our first concern should be that the leaders in the church be "blameless". I feel it is very scriptural that we have focused on the leaders in the LRC who were/are not blameless and taken issue with that. If you are going to set in order the things that are lacking with the LRC it begins with cleaning house of the corrupt leadership.

In Titus 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

How do we determine if you can hold fast to the faithful word? Or that you can use sound doctrine to exhort and convince others? Clearly this forum is good practice because if you can't do it here you can't do it anywhere.

1:10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:

it is easy to discuss with Christian brothers matters of the faith, but how about with unruly? How about with vain talkers? How about with deceivers? Once again this forum is a great place to practice dealing with these as well.

1:11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.

This is clearly a charge to Titus and to us. We need to stop their mouths and this forum seems like an ideal channel to do that. Imagine any new contact who goes online to look into the Local Church and Witness Lee? How about their family? If Nigel Tomes and John Meyers and other members of LRC are reading this forum, then surely we have an opportunity to exhort and convince the current members of the LRC. WL and the Blendeds are teaching things which they ought not and they are doing it for filthy lucre's sake.

As a result we need to "rebuke them sharply" which I think this forum has done, on occasion. We should focus particularly on the "Jewish fables" that WL told, and the "commandments of men which turn from the truth".

Yes, the leaders of the LRC including WL profess that they know God, but in works they "deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate."


So then, this forum needs to speak things that are of sound doctrine. One church one city, and the Minister of the Age are doctrines that are not sound. Deputy authority has become a "commandment of men who have turned from the truth". We need to have "sound speech that cannot be condemned" particularly after being trained by someone who was very injurious in his speech, full of condemnation.

Now we know the LRC is a very litigious group, but Paul says we need to speak these things "and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee."

On the one hand we need a backbone, on the other hand we need to submit ourselves to authority. Unruly men will listen to no one, we have to be those that can hear the fellowship and correction of others.

[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Titus 1:5 "For this cause I left you in Crete to set in order the things that are wanting".
To me, I hope we can play a part in setting in order the things of the LRC that are wanting. On the one hand we have clearly identified some errors and things that are wanting, but on the other hand we can testify that we were genuine seekers of Jesus and that many of the saints still in the LRC are also.

Thanks for this ZNP. (you may not be thanking me when I done though)

There are "things wanting" in every christian group...maybe since the beginning in the days after Pentecost. Surely in the last days that we are living in there are things wanting. Things wanting in our ways of gospel preaching, things wanting in our ways of meeting., things wanting in our theology, things wanting our giving to the poor. Then list goes on.

I wonder now, as I have for many a year... "without spot or wrinkle or any such thing". Such a bride does not exist. Or... perhaps the spots and wrinkles are not quite what we think they are. Our Lord DESERVES a perfect bride without spot or wrinkle or any such thing - does he not? Will the perfection come before he returns? I think not. I think "in an instant, in a twinkling of eye" he will get his spotless and wrinkle-less bride.

The mistake of Watchman Nee, and the mistake greatly magnified by Witness Lee, was one of assuming that the bride could be produced by us mortal men. We can produce nothing but sin and rebellion against God. The Old Testament showed us this - the New Testament showed us this - and now 2,000 + years of church history has showed us this. Maybe we should stop looking at us mortal men and look at the bridegroom. The bridegroom clearly said "I will build my church". Pretty spiritual. Pretty heavy duty. Pretty much out of our hands and out of our control.

Where does the rubber meet the road when it comes to building the church? It comes with us mortal men. "whosoever shall come". This is what the bridegroom has said from the beginning. We don't pick. We don't choose. "Love thy neighbor as thy self". There is the rubber, and there is the road. This is what is sorely missing in the Local Church of Witness Lee. "Whosoever" is not necessarily on a college campus. "Whosoever" may not be an educated person at all. "Whosoever" may not look like you or sound like you.

May God have mercy.

[ZNPaaneah]

Answering this question is certainly a very big part of this forum. Were the sins and evils of the LRC who they are or is there a dichotomy?

If PL is representative of who the saints in the LRC are then without a doubt this is not just a matter of "filling up that which is wanting".

I have shared my testimony extensively and from my experience PL was not representative. There are others who have also shared on this forum extensively, I don't wish to list them by name, but from their testimony as well it would be a nasty insult to say that PL represented them. For these saints is it fair to say "something is wanting"?

According to Paul there were "many" unruly ones, granted, many vain talkers, again granted, and many deceivers, again granted.

Paul says "their mouths must be stopped". That is certainly a strong word. He is not suggesting that there is something "wanting" in their speaking, but rather they need to be shut down completely. Silenced. He says they are "teaching things which they ought not to". Again, I agree that many of the things WL, LSM and the Blendeds teach are things they "ought not to teach". And Paul says they teach these things "for filthy lucre's sake". Once again I agree completely. I think the heinous teachings in the LRC are designed to create a monopoly and captive market of the saints, the purpose is to "make merchandise of the saints". Why do they teach "one church one city", or that "WL was the MOTA" or that Christianity is "degraded"? Surely it is so that they have a monopoly on the ministry, it is for "filthy lucre's sake".

But it is easy to prove that only a small minority of those in the LRC have a financial incentive to do what they do, as a result this word from Paul can only refer to a small percent of those in the LRC.

Likewise the LRC is very strict over who is able to teach, as a result the word that "they teach things they ought not" also only refers to a small percent.

The people who need to be stopped are the ones who profess to know God but with their works deny Him. I think we have some very clear and definite examples of these in the LRC, but that this word does not apply to all saints in the LRC, doesn't even apply to a majority.

[ZNPaaneah]

Helping believers discern false prophets.

We have seen that there is a correlation between the Local Church and WL, with other false prophets. Therefore the lessons we have learned could help others as well. We know that "there are many false Christs who have gone out" and we know this comes to a head at the end of the age with the False Prophet and Anti Christ. Therefore the lessons we have learned could be very valuable in saving some from this temptation.

[JB482]

I joined this forum in December I think,I only made a few posts,but I have read the posts and some of the archives every so often. There is no such thing as a perfect forum,there are many here and everyone has an opinion. I know all or most of us that were in the local church have suffered some degree of damage. I think there needs to be more positive truth from God's Word shared to edify the saint's here. More glory and praise given to God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. I have seen what some have posted and I don't think it was done in the Spirit of Christ. Criticism and exposing error and false teaching in the local church should be done. But we need to judge ourselves too. I've really enjoyed a lot of the testimonials that saint's have given here sharing their experiences they are priceless! And seeing ones here I knew in the past,stirring up good memories.

[JJ]

For me this forum has been a chance to practice Ephesians 5:1-20 “Walk in light, expose and reprove the unfruitful works of darkness, and speak to one another in Psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, giving thanks at all times for all things.

https://biblehub.com/blb/ephesians/5.htm

Some posters veer from that, agreed. But I usually see they are challenged about that. Don’t think there is enough positivity? Check out the verses and songs on page 1 and praise/worship pages like Worship Song of the Day... and contribute your positive posts!

Thanks for maintaining it, Unto Him. Otherwise LSM is the main source on the internet for information about Witness Lee’s local churches, and expatriates around the world loose a great way to speak truth one to another, connect, and stay connected. Jesus will get His spotless bride by sanctifying her, washing her in the water of His word, which is truth.

[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by JB482

I think there needs to be more positive truth from God's Word shared to edify the saint's here. More glory and praise given to God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Firstly, I want to emphasize that I unequivocally, without reservation, emphatically and wholeheartedly agree with what JB482 has said here! Let's face it guys, discussions revolving around the kinds of topics were are dealing with on this forum can get rather contentious, and sometimes just downright tedious. At times, some brothers and sisters may feel intimidated and discouraged about the tone and tenor around here, and feel that their "positive" contributions to the forum are not welcomed. Nothing could be further from the truth!

However, I think we would all do well to keep in mind that we are all coming from different places and have different experiences with the Local Church. Some are deeply wounded and their scares are going to be visible for all to see, and this will naturally come out in their postings. This forum is here for them. Some have had nothing but positive experiences in the Local Church, and their positive view regarding the ministry of Witness Lee and the movement will naturally come out in their postings. This forum is for them as well! To be sure, most of the forum's members' experience and outlook is probably a "mixed bag" of positive and negative experiences. For some, they tend to want to mainly share, and emphasize, their critiques and criticisms. For others, they would feel to share, and emphasize, the positive aspects and experiences. Both are welcomed and needed on LocalChurchDiscussions!

I have seen what some have posted and I don't think it was done in the Spirit of Christ.

Point well-accepted, and even appreciated. Although I think most of us strive to be posting on this forum in "the Spirit of Christ", I believe we should always be trying to give as much understanding and grace to our fellow forum members as we can. Our hearts and minds are not necessarily in the same place. Let's be honest, the Spirit of Christ has not necessarily influenced or penetrated our being as much as he should, and our postings will only be as "seasoned with salt", and with only as much "grace and truth" as we have received from the Lord himself.
-

[JB482]

Amen brother, I appreciate your words and your spirit very much!

[Cal]

I understand where JB482 is coming from. I would also ask him/her for grace in receiving the board members' posts with understanding. Hate-filled posts are never good. But anger over hurt should be admissible, along with some of the barbs and warts that come with it. And tough words are almost impossible to avoid in this situation.

This board values Christian love, but also must value honesty and sincerity over political decorum. I would rather have a poster be a little rough and well-meaning, than use decorum to conceal a dagger. And, sad to say, that was sometimes standard operating procedure in the LR. Some are used to it.

Jesus socialized and traveled with fishermen, tax-collectors and even prostitutes. Surely those people were not the most refined specimens. I'm sure he heard some things along the way that would make a BB blush, but they probably didn't faze him.

But point well taken, JB482.

[aron]

My posts are sometimes vituperative and lack charity. I admit this, and repent. But in the gospels when the people were getting shed of their demons it wasn't always pretty - rolling around in the dust and yelling. So bear with us and we'll bear with you. Eventually you get something quite positive, affirming, and uplifting. There is hope. There is hope amidst the ashes.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by JB482

I joined this forum in December I think,I only made a few posts,but I have read the posts and some of the archives every so often. There is no such thing as a perfect forum,there are many here and everyone has an opinion. I know all or most of us that were in the local church have suffered some degree of damage. I think there needs to be more positive truth from God's Word shared to edify the saint's here. More glory and praise given to God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. I have seen what some have posted and I don't think it was done in the Spirit of Christ. Criticism and exposing error and false teaching in the local church should be done. But we need to judge ourselves too. I've really enjoyed a lot of the testimonials that saint's have given here sharing their experiences they are priceless! And seeing ones here I knew in the past,stirring up good memories.

I think of the endless hours I have spent studying the LC divisions / storms / quarantines of Max in '78, Ingalls et.al. in '89, and Titus Chu et.al. in '08. JB482, I'm not sure if you lived thru all of these LC disasters, but I did. Endless teachings, messages, and so-called fellowship were passed on to the saints to explain these difficult times. Then I learned that we were lied to for all of those years. I only share this to help you understand why things get a little cranky at times. I would prefer that others not be fooled as I was by LSM. Does that make sense?

If you read the book of Acts or Galatians, you get a sense of the raging battle the Apostles fought with the Pharisees and the Judaizers. There's a reason why we are admonished to "fight the good fight." I admit sometimes it ain't pretty. I try to do my best to keep my points clean, honest, and factual, but I do admit to a sarcastic tone at times to succinctly convey my views. Sorry if that lacks grace. We're doing our best to provide a service to current and former members of the LC's who have been hurt.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Ohio

If you read the book of Acts or Galatians, you get a sense of the raging battle the Apostles fought with the Pharisees and the Judaizers. There's a reason why we are admonished to "fight the good fight." I admit sometimes it ain't pretty. I try to do my best to keep my points clean, honest, and factual, but I do admit to a sarcastic tone at times to succinctly convey my views. Sorry if that lacks grace. We're doing our best to provide a service to current and former members of the LC's who have been hurt.

I have been guilty with the LC people on Facebook, especially young people, who can't see how deceived, they are, and how they could be irritating with their responses. I admit I don't know everything. I was acting like a cage-stage Calvinist. But then I remember how patient God has been with me. I have to speak the truth in love (Eph. 4:14,15). That is the antidote for false doctrines and other deception, NOT my quarrelsome or impatient attitude for the sake of truth, NOR my argumentative, mouthy know-it-alls. After all, it is God who will grant repentance through patient teaching and gentle correction. (2 Tim. 2:24-26). God be merciful to me!

[Kevin]

[JJ]

I love the quote, Kevin.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by JB482

I think there needs to be more positive truth from God's Word shared to edify the saint's here. More glory and praise given to God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. I have seen what some have posted and I don't think it was done in the Spirit of Christ. Criticism and exposing error and false teaching in the local church should be done. But we need to judge ourselves too. I've really enjoyed a lot of the testimonials that saint's have given here sharing their experiences they are priceless! And seeing ones here I knew in the past,stirring up good memories.

Take aron's posts about God's love, for example.

While in the LC system, aron was seriously put off by the demands to recruit "good material," and not "wasting time" on those who cannot benefit the Recovery. That error, generated by Lee himself in the FT trainings, provides a background for hundreds of his best posts. His recent post in the "God's Economy" thread is a great example. He is redefining for us all what "God's Economy" should look like, according to the scriptures, and not according to Lee.

Yes, there has been criticism exposing errors and false teaching in his posts, perhaps sarcastic rancor at times, (I'm worse though!) but what aron has shared has far exceeded the price of admission. At least for me. Others too, methinks.

For me this was the journey I had to take. I needed the sometimes bitter sarcasm which exposed the falsehoods, the fetters that bound up my thinking, and then something better, based on the plain reading of scripture, to free me. Don't just release me from prison, but smash my chains in plain view. Back in those days it was poster "Roger/Paul Cox" who seemed to me helped the most. Helped me and others. No excuses here, just some thoughts ...
...............................

P.S. My posts have always been harshest on the abuses of the leaders, and not the LC members. It's no different from how these leaders treated other brothers though. Both Lee and Chu were literally brutal to other brothers, and not at all based on their misdeeds or errors. They did it because they could. Many have been hurt. They taught others the same rotten patterns. None were ever accountable for this.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Ohio

My posts have always been harshest on the abuses of the leaders, and not the LC members.

Agree completely. It's "Lord's Recovery Movement" and its extra-local leaders including LSM I take issue with.

Let me make clear I have nothing against the common members nor the churches. Although either of those could be in error, saints are saints and churches are churches, and as such should be respected, as far as that goes. All saints have the right to gather as Christians with other Christians in churches and follow their consciences in their beliefs. No one has the right to go after them too harshly, unless you are citing a serious and specific error.

The "Lord's Recovery" is a different matter. It is a false spiritual entity formulated as an exclusive substitute for the Church. It has no standing before God as anything above churches or saints. And if you believe it does, well that's the heart of your error. .

If the guys at LSM want to start a ministry and movement, that's their business, but when they start building false entities like "the Recovery," swinging their weight around, bullying churches and saints and claiming to be something great and holy above all others, well, they'd better be ready for a broadside from the sheep dogs.

[Cal]

My focus and concern on this forum are pointing out the falsehood of "the Recovery" claims of special status before God. This includes pointing out the corollary false doctrines which bolster this idea. Things I target include:

• The false claims of a special status for "the Recovery."
  
  
• The false claims that only a church meeting "on the local ground" is a valid church.
  
  
• The false claims that Witness Lee is MOTA or Apostle.
  
  
• The false claims of "one ministry," deputy authority, "acting God" status for anyone or anything, or ANY claims by extra-local believers of special authority from God over other believers.
  
  
• Any condemnation of churches or believers as "spiritual fornicators," "Moabites" or other derogatory terms targeting those who don't go along with "the Recovery."
  
  
• Any teaching, practice or attitude that compromises the consciences of believers from deciding for themselves what they believe, what ministries they follow and who they meet with.
  
  
• Any teaching, practice or attitude which compromises or depersonalizes the individual believers's relationship with God, other people, or even his or her own self. These include inordinate focus on impersonal spiritual experiences such as "dispensing," elevating the group far above the individual, and discouraging friendships or family loyalties. It also includes teachings that confuse self-denial with self-loathing, or that compromise the believer's right to enjoy "all things" given by God, including wholesome recreation, hobbies, entertainment, socializing and other personal choices including dress.
  
  
• In general, any teaching, practice or attitude whose core motive is to control believers.

That's my focus. Other posters have other burdens. That's great. For example, Ohio focuses on the history of abuses and destructive events and actions in "the Recovery." As for me, I don't spend a lot of time hacking out esoteric doctrine unless it involves my main focus and concern.

Take away the false claims of special authority and status from the LR, and you are left with some nice Christians who dress badly. I can live with that.

[Kevin]

Igzy: Any condemnation of churches or believers as "spiritual fornicators," "Moabites" or other derogatory terms targeting those who don't go along with "the Recovery

Well, I should have talked back to that elder who called my church as spiritual fornicator. Shame on him.