Bible Answer Man Converts to Eastern Orthodox!

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Nell

Hey, E—
Are you God? Or, are you god? If not, why not? What will it take to put you over the line? When will you become g/God? How will it happen? Will you have to die first?
We need details. I can’t find anything in the Bible that explains how Evangelical is going to become g/God. There’s nothing about ANYONE who actually became g/God. Or is that new?

Paul wrote we don't really know what we shall become, there is still some mystery about it.

We get new glorified bodies like Jesus's, that are immortal. That's a "god" by anyone's definition (especially Hollywood's). To me it means partaking of God's divine nature. Anyway I see these questions as irrelevant details to the purpose of salvation just as calvinism vs arminism is irrelevant to salvation.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Paul wrote we don't really know what we shall become, there is still some mystery about it.

We get new glorified bodies like Jesus's, that are immortal. That's a "god" by anyone's definition (especially Hollywood's). To me it means partaking of God's divine nature. Anyway I see these questions as irrelevant details to the purpose of salvation just as calvinism vs arminism is irrelevant to salvation.

But, are you God? Have you “become”? Yes or no? Not hard questions.

Anyone’s definition? Do you speak for everyone? Even Hollywood!!?? Wow! You might be god.

So...details are irrelevant when you don’t have any. Got it. To become something... anything ... you need to ...know how...? Otherwise, what you’re preaching is empty words. “Poof!” You’re god! Or, “Poof! You’re a heretic!”


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[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Nell

But, are you God? Have you “become”? Yes or no? Not hard questions.
Anyone’s definition? Do you speak for everyone? Even Hollywood!!?? Wow! You might be god.
So...details are irrelevant when you don’t have any. Got it. To become something... anything ... you need to ...know how...? Otherwise, what you’re preaching is empty words. “Poof!” You’re god! Or, “Poof! You’re a heretic!”

Scripture defines a god as one who is immortal in Psalm 82:6-7. It also describes a god as one who is a son of the most high.

Why do people take issue with men calling themselves god, if they call themselves sons of God? Does not the warning that they shall "die like men" apply both to "god" as it does to "children of God" in Psalm 82:6-7?

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Scripture defines a god as one who is immortal in Psalm 82:6-7. It also describes a god as one who is a son of the most high.

Why do people take issue with men calling themselves god, if they call themselves sons of God? Does not the warning that they shall "die like men" apply both to "god" as it does to "children of God" in Psalm 82:6-7?

So I guess that's a "no." You, Evangelical, have not become "a god." And, Scripture doesn't define a god as one who is immortal in Psalm 82:6-7. The word “immortal” does not appear in the entire chapter of Psalm 82. Oops!

Psalm 82 King James Version (KJV)
82 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.
3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

But it does beg the question: If you won't be a god until after you die, how can you 3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy. 4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked. Psalm 82:3-4 refers to "gods" who are living and acting as a judge or someone with some authority over others.

Consider this opinion:
“The whole point of Psalm 82 is that earthly judges must act with impartiality and true justice, because even judges must stand someday before the Judge. Verses 6 and 7 warn human magistrates that they, too, must be judged: “I said, `You are gods; you are all sons of the Most High.' But you will die like mere men; you will fall like every other ruler.” This passage is saying that God has appointed men to positions of authority in which they are considered as gods among the people. They are to remember that, even though they are representing God in this world, they are mortal and must eventually give an account to God for how they used that authority.” https://www.gotquestions.org/you-are-gods.html

This opinion actually fits the context of Psalm 82 as an appointed judge who represents God in this world. They are not immortal but absolutely mortal.

[Evangelical]

Jews have a different interpretation - that it refers to angels in God's court and not human judges at all. Anyhow.

The opinions of early church fathers were quite different. They say that "sons of the most high" referred to Christians, the church. These men lived about the same time the New Testament was written or soon after. They were not only important theologians in Christian orthodoxy but revered as Saints in early church councils. They are credited for defending the Christian faith against heresies (Arianism etc). In regards to the Trinity and the canon of scripture which we take for granted today, they were regarded as representing the majority of orthodox Christian opinion at the time.

Even though gotquestions is often a reliable resource, I believe the journal article by the baptist Professor Carl Mosser carries more weight. It shows that the more formal doctrine of theosis in the EOC comes from what was a common interpretation of Psalm 82 at the time, rather than some vain imagination or heresy of the early fathers.

So when Witness Lee writes about the purpose of salvation being to "become god" he is not too far off the mark, his view is in alignment with the "earliest extant interpretations of Psalm 82".

For this reason I believe Psalm 82:6-7 is about immortality of the believers, and this is a more accurate interpretation because we are interpreting it as an ancient Christian might have.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

...For this reason I believe Psalm 82:6-7 is about immortality of the believers, and this is a more accurate interpretation because we are interpreting it as an ancient Christian might have.

Again I ask: If you won't be a god until after you die, how can you 3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy. 4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked. Psalm 82:3-4 refers to "gods" who are living and acting as a judge or someone with some authority over others.

Living men are being given specific details on what to do with the authority or oversight given them on a case by case basis: defend the poor and fatherless; do justice to the afflicted and needy; deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.

Do these simple instructions need "interpretation" or some kind of parsing by...anyone? Can we not simply read and obey? 16 All scripture is inspired by God and is[a] useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 so that everyone who belongs to God may be proficient, equipped for every good work. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 (NRSV) I understand this and I'm not "god" either. I didn't have to die to understand these scriptures.

Witness Lee spent his career making people dependent on himself for "interpretation" of Scripture, rather than dependent on God Himself. Add Lee to the list of "church fathers" with a leaky interpretation of Scripture that complicates the simple Word of God.

...

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Jews have a different interpretation - Anyhow.
The opinions of early church fathers were quite different ...
So when Witness Lee writes ...
For this reason I believe ...
And this is a more accurate interpretation ...
Because we are interpreting it as an ancient Christian might have.

So there you have it folks ... if you squeeze real hard ... find the interpretation you like ... get a bigger shoehorn ... locate some church "father" to authenticate ... push, push, push ... digging on-line for a source to confirm ... throw in a WL quote to persuade the faithful ... and voila ... you have it! All LC'ers become God!

And what to make of poor, poor, Christianity? Hopeless and helpless, degraded and denominated, stuck in the rut of the low gospel of His love displayed on the cross.

[awareness]

Know ye not that ye are gods. Deification isn't necessary. We're already gods, all of us, even those stiff-necked Pharisees.

But okay. Some argue for deification. So just who has been deified? Can we name some?