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A Future and a Hope by John Myer Discussions regarding this groundbreaking, bellwether work in progress

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Old 10-29-2008, 08:54 AM   #1
Igzy
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Default LC Devotional Practices

This thread is to comment on the subject of A Future and a Hope chapter 11, by John Myer.

First let me say that this chapter made me laugh out loud several times. The sheer mindlessness of LC group devotional practices is just plain funny.

I haven't been in an LC meeting for years, but what stuck out in this chapter was how little the boilerplate practices have changed in thirty or forty years. The weird and pointless things that bug John Myer today bugged me years ago, and yet they remain to this day, like treasured family traditions. I, too, was embarassed to invite anyone I knew to a meeting lest they witness three or four women standing in unison, shaking their fists and yelling something cross-eyed like "LET US EAT JESUS TILL WE SEE/THAT WE ARE HUMAN JESUSLY!!"

I mean, folks, if you don't realize how weird that seems to normal people then you really need to check into garlic room detox.

Here's another odd practice which some of you may have never thought of, Myer included. How about the matter of calling each other "brother" and "sister" all the time? Most Christians don't do it, and a group that does seems strange. The fact is, most people who don't really know you at all get a little freaked out when you start calling them "brother" right off the bat.

Regardless, the real reason LC practices have never reformed is, yet again, the extreme and imbalanced devotion to oneness, which practically translates to conformity, which psychologically translates to habitually doing things in order to gain group approval. So the devotional practices take on a life of their own. No one dares challenge them because everyone wants to be "one." And public devotional events are the ideal venue in which to show how "one" a person is.

Most of the time when I stood up in an LC meeting and repeated a chorus or verse my motive was to show that I confirmed the group, because I knew the best way to fit in was to conform to and confirm the group's practices, even if they seemed odd to me, which they did.

They seemed odd because they were. Most visitors understand that. As Myer said in just one of the passages that made me laugh out loud: If it sounds like chanting, it is chanting. To deny that makes you doubly odd.
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Old 10-29-2008, 09:27 AM   #2
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Default Re: LC Devotional Practices

Oddly enough, I still hear “brother” and “sister” occasionally, but not as a regular replacement for names. There was a brother in Dallas years ago (I’ve heard that he may be an elder or such in the GLA now ─ don’t know on which side of the great divide he stands) who virtually never spoke my name. It was the same for him with respect to almost everyone. I know of one person who said to him “X, my name is Y. It would really be good if you could call me by my name occasionally” or something like that. I’m not sure if it actually helped.
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Old 10-29-2008, 12:55 PM   #3
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Default Chapter 11

As I read chapter 11 of A Future and a Hope, I considered those that still meet with Living Stream Ministry affiliated local churches need to read chapter 11 of John Myer's book in order to get a glimpse of why localities haven't had an increase in decades.
I'm aware elders of localities won't change the meeting format for anyone. However if localities want an increase, changes need to happen. Otherwise LSM-affiliated local churches will only attract those who are for Witness Lee's ministry and not the general Christian.

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Old 10-29-2008, 01:46 PM   #4
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Default Re: LC Devotional Practices

[QUOTE=Igzy;4143]
Quote:
I, too, was embarassed to invite anyone I knew to a meeting lest they witness three or four women standing in unison, shaking their fists and yelling something cross-eyed like "LET US EAT JESUS TILL WE SEE/THAT WE ARE HUMAN JESUSLY!!"
I did not know the 'brothers & sisters' have been saying that! It even sounds morbid!


Glad I wasn't there to hear that! I was embarrassed to invite people to the meetings back in the day 'cause of the way we all said 'AAAAAAmen!'


Quote:
Here's another odd practice which some of you may have never thought of, Myer included. How about the matter of calling each other "brother" and "sister" all the time? Most Christians don't do it,

This is true. We are brothers & sisters in Christ but the LC usage was over the top...and not really a heart matter...it was a cliche we used.

How sad, those poor people continuously strive to be different and in their eyes, more 'living' or more something
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Old 10-29-2008, 03:20 PM   #5
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Default Re: LC Devotional Practices

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Originally Posted by countmeworthy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Igzy View Post
I, too, was embarassed to invite anyone I knew to a meeting lest they witness three or four women standing in unison, shaking their fists and yelling something cross-eyed like "LET US EAT JESUS TILL WE SEE/THAT WE ARE HUMAN JESUSLY!!"
I did not know the 'brothers & sisters' have been saying that! It even sounds morbid!
That was the verse to a song, CMW! It was printed up and everything. The chorus was even worse. "WE'LL MASTICATE JESUS. WE'LL MASTICATE JESUS...."

Mama mia.

On a further thought, LCers talk all the time about "expressing Christ," as if they really think they do that. But can anyone imagine Jesus Himself standing with his eyes shut, shaking his fist, and shouting "Oooooh, Holy Faaaaaather! Oooooh, Holy Faaaaaather!"

Did he ever do anything remotely like that?

I didn't think so.
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Old 10-29-2008, 04:18 PM   #6
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Default Re: LC Devotional Practices

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Originally Posted by Igzy View Post
This thread is to comment on the subject of A Future and a Hope chapter 11, by John Myer.

First let me say that this chapter made me laugh out loud several times. The sheer mindlessness of LC group devotional practices is just plain funny.
Igzy, I thought the local LC's were past all that robotic stuff, being in the "liberated GLA" and all that, but just last weekend when I visited, we reverted back to the old ways, "we seem to be sleepy this morning, let's all stand up and call on the Lord 3x."

I didn't think it was funny, and I wasn't laughing. Old habits are hard to break. JMyer's chapter came out just in time. Maybe they will read it.
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Old 10-29-2008, 04:39 PM   #7
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Default I disagree with this topic.

This thread has gone too far already.


Why don't you start making fun of the Catholic mass, next, guys?
You ever see the hat the pope wears???
HAHAHAHAHA!!!



I think it's telling that some are criticizing in this fashion.
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Old 10-29-2008, 05:22 PM   #8
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Default An Excellent Point in Chapter 11

Dear ones,

I thought the following was an excellent point:

Quote:
(From Chapter 11) "The typical way Christians think about their meetings is as a place to come and worship, be refreshed, edified, learn, and be encouraged. The Apostle Paul would no doubt agree with that mindset, but would add the thought of testimony to his expectation of a Christian gathering. This expanded understanding sees the assembly as a place where the unsaved or unlearned can come and perhaps for the first time be exposed to New Testament realities."
This aspect of "testimony" is a very important aspect to keep in the forefront whenever believers publicly assemble together. Being ever mindful of the testimony we bear before unbelievers and newcomers means that we consider the thoughts, feelings, and reactions of other people more than we consider ourselves. Ultimately, this causes the meeting to be an expression of concern and love. Which is to say, the meeting becomes a truly genuine expression of God!
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Old 10-30-2008, 05:12 AM   #9
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Default You are entitled to your opinion even though you have many

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Originally Posted by YP0534 View Post
This thread has gone too far already.


Why don't you start making fun of the Catholic mass, next, guys?
You ever see the hat the pope wears???
HAHAHAHAHA!!!

I think it's telling that some are criticizing in this fashion.
YP,

You are entitled to your opinion, but you are off on this one. You have a tendency to try to correct on this board, so I'm not surprised you've tried to do it here, too.
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Old 10-30-2008, 06:38 AM   #10
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Default

Let me further comment that I wasn't laughing just to make fun. I was laughing at the sheer absurdity of some habits with the joyful hope that they are finally getting exposed for what they are--over the top, self-serving, optional practices.

If a church is focused on mission--that is on genuinely being a testimony to the community--then things begin to fall into place. It's not that you cater to tastes so much as you realize that you have the freedom to limit optional practices which may offend.

It's called being all things to all people, a mindset the LC desperately needs to adopt, but one it won't adopt until it sees how precious people are to God, that is until it gets on mission.
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Old 10-30-2008, 06:55 AM   #11
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Default Re: You are entitled to your opinion even though you have ma

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YP,

You are entitled to your opinion, but you are off on this one. You have a tendency to try to correct on this board, so I'm not surprised you've tried to do it here, too.

I did err in not ignoring this thread entirely. You are right about that.

By all means, do continue in the manner that seems best to you.

Sorry to interrupt.
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Old 10-30-2008, 09:31 AM   #12
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No problem. Thanks for your attention.
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