I was born into the LC in the Cleveland area. Now 22

I was born into the LC in the Cleveland area. Now 22 years old, none of my family members are involved anymore. But we were pretty heavy into it until about six years ago. My parents met in the church and are now divorced, not even speaking to each other. I didn't speak to my father for about a year. I'd hate to think that the church played any part of my family issues but it's hard not to. I stumbled across this discussion board while researching whether or not the Lord's Recovery would be considered a cult- a question I had nearly my entire life but was too afraid to ask. Anyways, it's awesome to see all of these people with the same questions and similar experiences as me.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I was born into the LC in the Cleveland area. Now 22 years old, none of my family members are involved anymore. But we were pretty heavy into it until about six years ago..

Thanks for your comments, and welcome. Most people who get into the LC are "pretty heavy into it", or not into it at all. It's an absolutist thing; some do survive on the fringes, as "associate members" for whatever issues, personality clashes or whatnot. But most, it's either all-in or all-out. Either 'sold out' or out.

Given that you were in the Cleveland area, with the schism vis-à-vis the Blendeds of Anaheim, I imagine there's a lot of collateral damage. Your family was involved in the great Titus Chu Rebellion? Many got discouraged and dropped out entirely.

And for you to have been born into it all, that's another story entirely. Many came in as teens or young adults, looking for belonging and a place where everything's all figured out. Just follow the Deputy God, etc. . . to have been born there, and spend your formative years with no freedom of choice - wow. We had another poster here recently, lost_at_sea, who was alienated, confused, frustrated, angry and ashamed by being 12 years old, going "door knocking" and testifying of some God she didn't even know. And today, years later, she still feels the psychological effect.

And then the damaged ones get called the failures! No, it's the programme that failed. Not letting them find their way, but jamming rudimentary doctrines on them, shaming them if they didn't get it. Conform to the Hive. And then, compounding that by blaming the victim, and not taking responsibility for the many who were hurt, and expelled into the cold and dark void.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

My parents met in the church and are now divorced, not even speaking to each other. I didn't speak to my father for about a year. I'd hate to think that the church played any part of my family issues but it's hard not to. I stumbled across this discussion board while researching whether or not the Lord's Recovery would be considered a cult- a question I had nearly my entire life but was too afraid to ask. . .

Not sure I'd call it a cult, like the Jehovah's Witnesses or the Mormons, both of which are textbook pseudo-Christian cults. Certainly the LSM spawned some serious cults in mainland China. You can look them up; there are even some threads on this forum. Very scary stuff - violent, secretive; repulsive to humanity itself, much less to represent a religion of peace and love and forgiveness. It is not "recovery" but serious regression.

But the LCs affiliated with the LSM are arguably a narrow, pinched, elitist, snobby, know-it-all, divisive ("nobody has the truth but us") fringe sect of Christianity; a Chinese-flavored Christian personality cult. Whatever the Ascended Master said was God's oracle, immutable. The AM could question everybody, criticize everyone, but nobody could question the AM because that was "rebellion", the most heinous crime against the throne in heaven. Never, ever question or challenge the Deputy God.

But I digress.

Now, what next? You're 22 years old, a world probably full of troubles surrounding you. Headlines every day telling of attacks in the U.S. and abroad, climate change, melting glaciers and tornadoes ravaging Oklahoma. And so on, the Democrats and Republicans have both shown their hands, and they are empty. They are void of ideas, just blame and antagonism. The Divided States of America.

So you have either philosophy to console you, or maybe hobbies, like sports or painting, or trying to make money and have comforts in a world gone rapidly mad, or you can seek the abyss, oblivion, of chemical substances and addictions. Obsessions to escape, for a moment. Video games. Fantasy football. Or maybe a romance, which will take your mind off things for a while.

But still, the question remains, why am I here? The Lee programme, that you were a God-shaped glove to hold the divine, was in retrospect pretty lame stuff. As if a third grader watched a Western and was asked, what was it about, and they say, "Well there were men with hats on, riding horses". And sure enough, the whole movie was full of men with hats on, riding horses. But that wasn't the point of the movie. Lee's "God's economy" reminds one of that. And his "local ground" idea, from Nee, even worse: they took ignorant readings of a dozen or fifteen verses, and built a hermeneutical system that pretty much made a mockery of scripture.

But I digress.

So, what's the meaning of it all? I'd say this: you have to find your purpose. The biggest mistake your parents made is they took Lee's purpose as their own. They became, probably through Titus Chu, LeeBots. They subsumed their God-given human will to satisfy the unmet human needs of another fallen sinner. And it never works. Never. The leech cries, Give, give, but it's never enough. The Nee/Lee/Chu/Dong systems just suck every bit of life out of you, promising a special status in the divine, but eventually you're where? In someone's system. Feeding someone else's ego.

So, find your own reality. I left 20 years ago, eventually got tired of religion entirely, over the course of years found other things (job, family, hobbies, education) and then eventually about 12 or 15 years ago I found God again. And I began to find God on His terms, not Witness Lee's terms. As Robert Frost wrote, "And that's made all the difference". Good luck with your journey and God bless.

p.s. I don't believe in the Divided States of America rhetoric, btw. I pray often for the leaders of the US (and UK, Germany, Spain, Russia, Venezuela, Cuba, Ethiopia &c). But I was echoing, above, current discussion in popular media [newspapers, radio, tv, internet] of the state of things. But God's in charge: We are not divided, we're one, and Jesus is King, and Savior of the world. Amen.

[UntoHim]

Thanks for posting your short testimony. Please consider registering by shooting an email requesting registration along with desired UserName to LocalChurchDiscussions@Gmail.Com, and I will return with your temporary password.

We need some younger forum members! The points of view and opinions of you Millennials is especially needed!

Thanks for your consideration.

-

[aron]

Originally Posted by aron

Most who get into the LC are "pretty heavy into it", or not into it at all. It's an absolutist thing. .

Nothing wrong with enthusiasm. Or being zealous, or absolute. . .to the casual reader this seems quite good, actually: "As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."

The problem comes when we don't serve the Lord but some programme, system, theological construct, organization, etc. Then we see the thousands of shattered families trailing along behind. Then, instead of "love your neighbour as yourself" we see judgment: they're called "poor Christianity" and "deformed", "dark", "satanic", and "devilish". Well, guess what, so are you, and God showed mercy on you! Why curse your brother so?

No; instead of a simple love for the Lord and the person nearby, one's "sold out" for the recovery programme and all that it entails. Like ignoring scripture if the "apostle" does; like ignoring one's conscience, ignoring common sense for local church culture, ignoring or even disparaging one's neighbour.

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by aron

...

And for you to have been born into it all, that's another story entirely. Many came in as teens or young adults, looking for belonging and a place where everything's all figured out. Just follow the Deputy God, etc. . . to have been born there, and spend your formative years with no freedom of choice - wow. We had another poster here recently, lost_at_sea, who was alienated, confused, frustrated, angry and ashamed by being 12 years old, going "door knocking" and testifying of some God she didn't even know. And today, years later, she still feels the psychological effect.

And then the damaged ones get called the failures! No, it's the programme that failed. Not letting them find their way, but jamming rudimentary doctrines on them, shaming them if they didn't get it. Conform to the Hive. And then, compounding that by blaming the victim, and not taking responsibility for the many who were hurt, and expelled into the cold and dark void.

...

But the LCs affiliated with the LSM are arguably a narrow, pinched, elitist, snobby, know-it-all, divisive ("nobody has the truth but us") fringe sect of Christianity; a Chinese-flavored Christian personality cult. Whatever the Ascended Master said was God's oracle, immutable. The AM could question everybody, criticize everyone, but nobody could question the AM because that was "rebellion", the most heinous crime against the throne in heaven. Never, ever question or challenge the Deputy God.

But I digress.

Now, what next? You're 22 years old, a world probably full of troubles surrounding you....

So you have either philosophy to console you, or maybe hobbies, like sports or painting, or trying to make money and have comforts in a world gone rapidly mad, or you can seek the abyss, oblivion, of chemical substances and addictions. Obsessions to escape, for a moment. Video games. Fantasy football. Or maybe a romance, which will take your mind off things for a while.

But still, the question remains, why am I here? The Lee programme, that you were a God-shaped glove to hold the divine, was in retrospect pretty lame stuff. As if a third grader watched a Western and was asked, what was it about, and they say, "Well there were men with hats on, riding horses". And sure enough, the whole movie was full of men with hats on, riding horses. But that wasn't the point of the movie. Lee's "God's economy" reminds one of that. And his "local ground" idea, from Nee, even worse: they took ignorant readings of a dozen or fifteen verses, and built a hermeneutical system that pretty much made a mockery of scripture.

But I digress.

So, what's the meaning of it all? I'd say this: you have to find your purpose. The biggest mistake your parents made is they took Lee's purpose as their own. They became, probably through Titus Chu, LeeBots. They subsumed their God-given human will to satisfy the unmet human needs of another fallen sinner. And it never works. Never. The leech cries, Give, give, but it's never enough. The Nee/Lee/Chu/Dong systems just suck every bit of life out of you, promising a special status in the divine, but eventually you're where? In someone's system. Feeding someone else's ego.

So, find your own reality. I left 20 years ago, eventually got tired of religion entirely, over the course of years found other things (job, family, hobbies, education) and then eventually about 12 or 15 years ago I found God again. And I began to find God on His terms, not Witness Lee's terms. As Robert Frost wrote, "And that's made all the difference". Good luck with your journey and God bless.

aron, I just came across this post of yours and just wanted to say this is so helpful.

Blaming the victim for not grasping the impersonal God that is shoved down their throats, isolationist, can't question anything - so accurate.

Navigating out in the desert gray zone trying to fill the void - so true.

Realizing your own parents made a mistake - so hard to grapple with.

Finding your reality - something you never thought you'd have to deal with.

Finding God - so difficult to do when you have "known" for decades in the church that God doesn't care about you specifically.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Trapped

Finding your reality - something you never thought you'd have to deal with.

I suppose many of us are like myself, wishing that we had some immutable truth, some lodestone, some sure guide that we grasp firmly at some moment in time and never let go. Smooth sailing from then on. But our experience is to flitter in and out of various shades of gray, hoping that it is pure light. And looking back it wasn't, and today doesn't look much better. But still, we hope [vainly?] and we trudge on.

But the good news is Jesus told the ones who were so sure of their light that they were the most blind of all! So a little caution seems to be in order.

Let me give an example. Last night I was reading John and I realized the translation "Jews" was wrong, as in "the Jews sought to kill him", because Peter was a Jew ans Peter didn't try to kill him. Then I looked at the interlinear Greek and suddenly I realized what was wrong - the Greek says, "Ioudeans". Judeans! It was the Judeans who were trying to kill him! Jesus and the disciples were Galileans, and many of the opposes were Judeans! Duh!

Now, how many times did I have to read the gospel of John to get this simple point? How many hundreds of times, before the light started to shine?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by aron

Let me give an example. Last night I was reading John and I realized the translation "Jews" was wrong, as in "the Jews sought to kill him", because Peter was a Jew ans Peter didn't try to kill him. Then I looked at the interlinear Greek and suddenly I realized what was wrong - the Greek says, "Ioudeans". Judeans! It was the Judeans who were trying to kill him! Jesus and the disciples were Galileans, and many of the opposes were Judeans! Duh!

Interesting find, aron. Confirmed by John 7.1, "After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for he would not walk in Judaea, because the Jews [or Jewish leaders, or Judeans] sought to kill him."

Reminds me of Lee's constant condemnations of Christianity: Just gross characterizations, using a couple bad examples to bash the whole.

So it's no wonder that many LC members find it so difficult to seamlessly transfer to other evangelical churches. Our minds have been polluted with garbage about them. Rotting prejudices fill our brain cells where agape love should have been cultivated to grow.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Trapped

Finding God - so difficult to do when you have "known" for decades in the church that God doesn't care about you specifically.

Originally Posted by Ohio

So it's no wonder that many LC members find it so difficult to seamlessly transfer to other evangelical churches. Our minds have been polluted with garbage about them. Rotting prejudices fill our brain cells where agape love should have been cultivated to grow.

Finding God is a challenge at best, and the world would be a better place if it were easier. But it's not.

The answer for me today is that Jesus Christ found the Father. Adam lost the Father and Jesus (the second Adam) found Him. Jesus is the way home. Not "masticating the processed and consummated Triune God" or "meeting on the local ground" or "being in the central lane of the divine economy" or what ever swill the merchandisers are selling today. Notice how they get you to look at yourself. Don't waste your time. It's a mirage, a chimera.

Really, for me, "we see Jesus" a la Hebrews chapter 2 sums it up. When you see Jesus you see the way home. We see Jesus there in scripture. We have multiple confirming accounts, with 4 gospels plus the gospel narratives in Acts (Peter and Paul) plus Paul's epistles.

But one has to let go of a lot, to be able to begin to grasp the simplicity and the purity of the gospel.

Let go of thinking you have found the way. Those who are blind think thus.

Let go of despising others. How you treat others is how God will treat you.

Let go of thinking you have an inside track on the truth. I put the story of the "Judeans" there because it shows how little I really know.

Let go of thinking that you have to find God somewhere out there in the vasty void of eternal space and time. Just see the man Jesus, an essentially homeless, penniless, largely despised and pretty much completely misunderstood man. Full of love, reaching out constantly to those who lacked. How can we not gaze at him?

I mean, what else is there?

[Cal]

Originally Posted by aron

Finding God is a challenge at best, and the world would be a better place if it were easier. But it's not.

I respectfully disagree with this, aron. That is if it's true that you are saying that God made a mistake by making finding him too hard of a challenge, and thereby made the world a worse place than it ought to be.

Either way, I don't believe FINDING God is that hard of a challenge. I believe TRUSTING him is a hard challenge. When we call, God is there, always. What challenges us is the (false) sense that, though he is there, he is not doing anything to help us. I.e. WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME?!

He hasn't forsaken anyone. He is always there, always findable. He just doesn't always do what we want when we want it. Fortunately, we are in good company. Even Jesus asked God why he had forsaken him. God hadn't. Jesus just, at that moment, felt like he had. That's how we feel too sometimes, and THAT is the challenge.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Igzy

I don't believe FINDING God is that hard of a challenge. I believe TRUSTING him is a hard challenge. When we call, God is there, always. What challenges us is the (false) sense that, though he is there, he is not doing anything to help us. I.e. WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME?!

He hasn't forsaken anyone. He is always there, always findable. He just doesn't always do what we want when we want it. Fortunately, we are in good company. Even Jesus asked God why he had forsaken him. God hadn't. Jesus just, at that moment, felt like he had. That's how we feel too sometimes, and THAT is the challenge.

Jesus knew exactly where he was. He wasn't lost. We are the ones who went astray.

Jesus prayed what he did so that scripture might be fulfilled. "It is written".

But it really doesn't matter. My premise here is that I largely don't know what I am doing. So I don't contend for some "truth".

Look at the LC line - what is the focus. "Eat God" - you are the actor, God the object. "Meet on the proper ground" - ditto. "Take the way of recovery" - the same. "Make it" or "be an overcomer" - it is you who struggle to line yourself up with God.

But Jesus already did it. He overcame. Why focus on yourself?

The important thing here is to imagine that you are born into this system of mind control, of hyper-self-focus. "Wow! I'm a God-man! I'm becoming God in life and nature!" Incessantly going to meetings, slavishly imitating the ministry, focusing on the feeling as you shout slogans and pump your fist. Imagine doing this from infancy.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by aron

Jesus knew exactly where he was. He wasn't lost. We are the ones who went astray.

Jesus prayed what he did so that scripture might be fulfilled. "It is written".

So Jesus was pretending to be in despair? I don't buy that. No, he was really in despair. He was not acting on the cross.

Originally Posted by aron

But it really doesn't matter.

Yeah, let's not quibble.

Originally Posted by aron

The important thing here is to imagine that you are born into this system of mind control, of hyper-self-focus. "Wow! I'm a God-man! I'm becoming God in life and nature!" Incessantly going to meetings, slavishly imitating the ministry, focusing on the feeling as you shout slogans and pump your fist. Imagine doing this from infancy.

I will agree that it is hard to "find God" when you been so confused by lies about God that you don't know which end is up. Yeah, I get that. I just didn't want our readers to think that God does not come when we call. He does, and the word says over and over that he will. But the noise in our heads can almost, not quite, drown out our realization of his presence. We just have to keep calling and praying and sincerely pleading, "Where are you?!" And he will come through. Everyone can count on that.

[aron]

I may be too much in my own mind (always a danger). But I've come to believe that a chief peril of the modern religious sentiment is to make people believe that subjective experience is a stand-in for objective reality, which makes them prey for manipulation and abuse. Witness Lee asked the Shanghai elders, "How did you feel" when they expelled Watchman Nee for gross sin. Even basic issues of human conduct got subsumed by, "How do you feel".

Now, imagine being born into a system that traffics in manufactured feelings. Eventually Leader A quits Leader B because it doesn't feel good any more to follow that one. Then mummy and daddy split because they can't agree on which leader to follow, again feelings lead them deeper into the quagmire. Now imagine you're a child or a young teen. All your life you've been told that reality itself is to meet on the proper ground under the proper leadership and call on the Lord in the proper way, and pray-read the right verses from this week's HWMR, and suddenly it all dissolves. All along your feelings were conditioned by your handlers, and suddenly your handlers are in turmoil. Whither reality, at this point?

Which is why I keep pointing to the experiences of Jesus in the Bible. They have been validated. "No one can do the works you do, unless God is with him." This goes up to the cross, and beyond. "He rescued me, because he delighted in me". The Father delighted in the Obedient Son, and raised him from death. This transcends our daily experiences and ultimately can imbue them with meaning, if we don't allow ourselves to be distracted by ephemera and clutter.